[RTB:E14] "Lessons from Over $320MM in Affiliate Sales (w/ Amber Spears)" - The Road to a Billion

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host Stefan Georgi and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money really whatever. The reason it's called the Road to a Billion is because my different offers that everyone copied for will hit a billion dollars in sales this year. And my goal is also to make a direct impact in the lives of ten or a billion plus people in the next ten years. And that's where that's mental, emotional, financial and what have you. So start taking calls in about five minutes from now. The way that works is you're going to put your questions into the Q and A section on Zoom and then my friend Ed Ray will go through, review those questions and feed them to myself and also to my very special guest who is Amber Spears, who is here. If you don't know Amber, she's recognized as an industry thought leader in the affiliate marketing arena and a prolific connector and networker. Amber is the co founder of East 5th Avenue, a world class affiliate management education company and agency. In the last few years the agency has generated $68 million in front end launch sales, generating over 6 million leads and over 8 figures a year for her clients. On the education side, East 5th Avenue has trained over 250 companies and helped them generate over $320 million from her methods. Amber is a highly sought after trainer, coach and keynote speaker. She has spoken on and keynoted stages like Traffic and Conversion, Affiliate Summit West, War Room, Affiliate Summit Europe. I saw ClickBank Platinum I think as well was one that's on there, I noticed. And her clients, past and present include Clickbank Agora, Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Isabella Wentz, the Truth About Cancer, Energy Blueprint, Venus Factor, the Tapping Solution, Mindable, True Genetics, and many more. So I say Amber is a badass. I really mean it, as you can tell. And Amber, it's awesome for you to. Thank you for joining me and for being here with us.

My God, it's my pleasure. Anything. When you ask me to do anything, it's a resounding hell yes for me because you're one of my favorite humans ever and I love talking to you. So I just, I think this is gonna be really fun and I think this format is so cool. Like most of the, you know, most of the shows I'm on, they're like prerecorded and they let me know later on, you know, when stuff's gonna go live. And like, this just seems like so much more fun.

Yeah.

And leave it to you to think of something like this. No, that's cool. Yeah.

Oh, well, yeah, it is a lot of fun. I'm stoked you're here and it's gonna be awesome. And as always, we were joined by Ed Ray, my co host and the fielder of questions and also the fielder of dreams. I don't know. That doesn't make sense. It just. It felt right as it was coming out. Ed Ray, you wanna go and give a quick intro? I don't have a cool bio for you.

I'm still working on it. I'm changing my bio every day. But, hey, I'm Ed Ray. I'm the Facebook compliance guy. If you want to run on Facebook and scale fast and furiously without fear of getting banned or shut down, I'm your guy. There you go.

Awesome. Perfect. Love it.

Perfect.

Nailed it. So, yeah, we'll start taking questions in just a minute or two. And like I said, feel free to just pop those into the Q and A and we'll kind of go through and we'll answer them live and it'll be a lot of fun. Sometimes on this show, I like to do kind of an opening monologue where I'll rant about something. And it's really fun to do that, given it's like the radio format. But honestly, I don't really have a monologue today. And I was thinking I'll just take five minutes to catch up with Amber, because I haven't talked to you, Amber, since we had dinner at that Mexican restaurant. It was only a couple weeks ago, but it feels like it was longer.

It was like decades ago.

It feels like decades ago, but this felt good. I gotta go back to it. How have you been?

I've been good. I was in the desert for five days. Yeah, I just got back. We were out there. I can't tell you who I was with, but I was out there with a bunch of industry thought leaders and movers and shakers for five days. And we did our own Birdie man style thing. We dressed up in costumes and just had a ton of fun. So I'm really filled up from that because I feel like we've all been craving live events so much. We've all been craving that kind of human interaction. So my cup still if over, but I can't tell you who's there for multitude of reasons, being that there are haters and people that you know, they think different things and sure. Think that we should be wearing masks or not wearing masks. Like, whatever. I'm just gonna tell you, I'm not gonna tell you either way if we wore a mask or not. But it was delightful and I enjoyed it so much.

That's awesome. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah. Don't worry about who it is. But I know when I put in the one email I was like, which is true. I'm like, amber's network is way better than mine because, like, no more badass. I mean, I'm teasing, but it's like, you know, even like at the Melissa Mastermind at Clickbank, like, or at Traffic and Conversion last year. And then like Joe Paulus just shows up and talks for a while and I'm like, oh, shit. Like, you know, he's like, oh, you know, like, Amber's a good friend. So when she said, hey, stop by. And I'm like, oh my God. Amber's just like, she's so cool. I want to be Amber Spears when I grow up.

I want to be you when I grow up. It's like we always want. We don't have. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So no, it's. I definitely have a different network, right. Because I started out like in the Clickbank like world. Like, I started in direct response in the Agora Clickbank world because I came on with, you know, Craig Valentine right when he had bought early to rise from Agora and they were still like sorting all that stuff out and all of his offers on Clickbank. So that's where I started. And then I started going into a lot of like health, biohacking, alternative medicine space and then financial. So I collected really cool friends and experiences from being able to hop in kind of these different industries and being able to see, you know, who's like rising and falling and what's working and like, you know, all the things in every niche has been super cool and like educational for me. So that's why I have this random collection and assortment of people that you might not know because I've been popping around these different places.

No, that makes perfect sense. And it's. But it's super cool because one thing I love when I've gone to Mimosa Mastermind events and even just when I did that, when I presented for your tribe, your group, it's like people who are doing e comm stuff with influencers, but they're building these eight figure companies, sometimes nine figure companies, and they're doing it with there's direct response involved. But then they're building these big consumer brands too and they're doing really awesome stuff. And so I kind of love your universe. And of course there's the overlap with Agora is a big client of yours and people from Clickbank and the Brad Howard's of the Road and all that kind of stuff. So there's an overlap. But I do love how there's also. We both have these sort of other spirits too. It's. No pun intended, of the spirits, but it's pretty cool.

Yeah, it is really cool. I think that's like, that's my favorite part about this entire industry is how much of what we do is just super relationship and connection based. Like really like. I feel so secure in my life in a way I've never felt given my super fucked up background. I feel like when I was younger I had no security and no safety and no real relationships and no community. And now I really feel one a part of a real community. All the people on this call, all the people in our industry, I really, truly feel like they're real friends of ours. It's not just lip service. And I know that if I stumble or if I fall that these people are going to pick me up. Not only because, you know, that has actually happened to me and I've stumbled and I've had people pick me up, but also like, because we do that for each other and it just feels so amazing to be able to make money with your family and your friends. Right? Because that's really what it feels like.

Yeah, 100%. And I. And you, you've done such a great job of cultivating that. I don't know, just. Just that, that ethos and everything. And like I said, even every, like, it's funny. Cause you and I, like, I've been to other mimosa events and you know, we've known each other, we've had conversations on the affiliate side and, and obviously you're speaking at the upcoming virtual event for Copy Accelerator, which I'm super pumped for. I might try and get you to tease a takeaway or two, but I won't put you on the spot yet. You can think about it and then if you don't have anything yet, you can just make it up.

Well, no, I actually, I'm taking it really seriously about creating something super custom for you. And I was kind of teasing it on my email this morning, but we're actually retiring my agency.

Oh, wow.

We're going to have a. We're going to Have a retirement party and everything alone. And I, because we're like, serious, we're retiring the agency. And that means that when I teach next week, I'm actually going to be revealing some of like, the dirtiest laundry secrets of being an agency owner, as well as being on the other side of what I've seen over the last seven years doing affiliate marketing, maybe eight. And also just the things that I think owners really need to know that I normally could not say because I'm filtered and censored. And also the things I want them to know because I have to be filtered and censored. Coming from the other side, owning an affiliate management agency, being a formal, People still think I'm an affiliate manager. I'm not. I haven't logged into an infusion software, pulled links or done anything in probably three years. I oversee the accounts, I do all that, you know, and I handle the large affiliate partners. But there's a lot going on on both sides that I think we need to get a lot of clarity on, both as owners and also as, you know, as affiliate managers and people that are in that role. So that's one of the things that I'm going to be sharing. I'm kind of nervous about it because it's, you know, it's a fuck. It's a very non, like, not politically correct stuff that I really think is kind of the underbelly of affiliate marketing. I also think that it's things that no one wants to talk about. They kind of tiptoe around it, including things like pay. I can't tell you how many owners text me or call me and they're like, hey, listen, this is how much I'm paying my affiliate manager. Is it enough? Is it too much? Is it competitive? And I have people coming to me like, this is how much I'm paying my affiliate manager. This is how much I'm getting paid. You know, is it competitive? And my whole answer is like, why are we not talking about this in public? Why are we not talking about the rates and you should really be paid what and who's worth it and who isn't and like, how you know, what the expectation is. And like, because, you know, training over 250 different businesses, I know what pretty much everyone gets paid either because they tell me or because I'm literally in the back of their business. I'm seeing their commissions. I, you know, this is part of it is like, I want to know if you have a talented affiliate manager, how do you keep them?

Right?

Because there's so much turnover in this space. I mean, why is that? And it's not just the pay, but a large part of it is the pay and it's not the cocaine. I mean, it's part of cocaine.

Speaking of a lot lately, I don't.

Know, it's just been a while.

Cocaine's just super hot right now, apparently.

Yeah, it's just super hot. It's like back in style.

It's totally back.

Yeah, it's back. But, you know, I think we need to have these conversations openly, which is like, what is a going rate for affiliate managers? What is the standard? What are they? You know, what are they worth? And if you're an owner, like, if you're underpaying them, you should know that because that's one of the reasons why people get poached. If you're overpaying them, you should know that. Yeah, right. Like so. And I just think that everyone is afraid of saying this kind of stuff out loud. And I've been very fortunate to look on the back. So that's one of the things that I'm actually going to be revealing for the first time publicly, which is what everyone privately comes to me about and says. And by the way, the reason why they come to me is because I'm a vault, right? I'm never going to share who's getting paid what and, you know, whatever. Because that's just. It's a bad thing for me. It's a. It's a break of my own word and my own trust. But I do see the ranges, right? I do see, like, wow, this person is like, you know, is really overpaid for the results that they're doing. This person's really underpaid for the results and the amount of work that they're doing. Like, you know, if you want security and if you're an owner that's been sitting around wondering, like, oh, my God, is my person going to get poached? Like, come talk to me. And I'm happy to look at what you're paying and what your incentives are and everything else and give you some feedback, because I think this is the important part of this, is it doesn't need to be a secret. And I think the more that we talk about this, the more we get it out in the open, the more we can really decide and have a feeling of security that we're doing right by our team, we're doing right by our owners, we're doing right by our companies, you know, kind of what the expectations of success are. And how to measure it. How to measure, like, what to measure when you're working with affiliates? Like, if you're an owner on the call or even affiliate manager, I can't tell you. I mean, these words are going to resound with you, but it's like, you know, so what big affiliate partners are going to be mailing for us this week? It's like, dude, you know, these are like, how many. Like, seriously, like if you're an owner on the call or affiliate manager, like, how many times do you hear that or how many times do you say that? Right? This is just like, not. That's not the best way to get the answers and the results that you're looking for. But it's the most commonly used phrase. Like, how do you motivate affiliate managers? How do you motivate your team? How do you incentivize them? How do you incentivize affiliate partners? You know, how do you reengage them? Like, just all these things that I'm going to be covering in the talk that I'm already sweating a little bit, like saying out loud that I can say, because I'm like, I'm muzzled now on muzzle now. So it's going to be wild.

Dude, that's awesome. No, I can't wait. And you're right. And there are so many things, like as a one thing that. A unique thing I have is that as a copywriter and working with clients and then teaching, coaching, but then actively running different businesses and health supplement companies and things. And yeah, I mean, I see it all the time because there's so many affiliate managers who are sort of not max. I mean, 99. I don't know, 95% of affiliate managers don't maximize their relationships. And there's sort of saying where it's like, you know, you hear about, well, affiliates promote this for a month, but then they move to something else because, you know, affiliates have shiny object syndrome. And they. And it's like, yeah, that's true. But it's like also your job is to, like, bring them back to, like, stuff. And I think that there's a lot of complacency sometimes with a lot of affiliate managers and in the affiliate space and so even stuff around that, like, as far as, like, how to. Yeah. How to get the most out of your affiliate manager or if it's you yourself who's getting affiliates for your offer or whatever it is, I think there's just a lot of important stuff that needs to be shared there. So the fact that you're gonna be doing that is pretty exciting.

Yeah. Like I said, I'm nervous about it. But, you know, and I think that this is like, this is like the main thing. It's like, you know, I feel so fortunate to be able to see so many different sides of this. Right. Like, I started as an affiliate manager and I had a ton of success. And that's, you know, we built Esfeth. You know, we've blown it up. I've. I've seen that side of it. So I've done the client work, the interaction with them. You know, like, if you're an affiliate manager, you shouldn't be writing copy. You shouldn't be dealing with tech issues. You shouldn't be doing all that. But most of them aren't.

Right?

That's just the fact. And then the owners are harping on them, hey, why aren't we getting these results? Well, they're spending 75% of their time doing admin work. And what universe do you think they're going to have these exceptional results and have time to do other things? There's a lot of that going on, which I understand from the client perspective on the other side, coming in and training at different companies, I'm seeing so often that there are the wrong people in the roles. Right. They're just like, you know, lona's genius. My business partner, co founder of East 5th last year, she just took it on herself to go out and do the Colby scores of like 50 of what we consider to be the top or, you know, just in general, affiliate managers in the space, just to see, you know, we also had some of the people that we consider to be the worst performers. So if you're hearing this, you know, you're in either camp. Just kidding. I'm sure you're great. But, like, you know, we've seen a very clear pattern on this, like, who should really be in the seat driving the affiliate department. Right. Like, for example, a high quickstart. That's the type of person that you want in the seat driving the business, because they're not going to sit there and obsess over every single detail of your products. And, you know, the cookies is at first cookie or laughing. No, they're just going to go and get on the phone and start making phone calls. And that's the type of person that you need in that seat. And also, you know, looking at how you're incentivizing them. Right. Like, if you're paying. Paying somebody 120k a year and they're not incentivized to raise the revenue of the business. Like, you're going to be disappointed, right? And having clarity conversations like, as owners, I see most people don't even have quotas for their affiliate managers. And just the thought of saying that makes them shy away. And it's like, well, they need to have quotas because people need to know what to go after, and they need to know if they're performing well or not. Right? And then the other part of it, as a business owner, I see so often a business owner might make like a scorecard or KPI or quota, and then what they end up doing is they're so busy, they just never turn around and, like, actually review that with their affiliate managers on a regular basis until there's something so wrong. Numbers are so off, that's gonna take months or weeks to kind of dig out of that. And they just. They don't have the time. But, you know, my thing is, like, if you're a business owner, you better make the time for the people who are making you money. You know what I mean? Like, they should be getting some of your time because they're generating revenue for the company. And so I just see all these different things. And then also being a product owner myself, right? Like, we have our keto cookbook partnership with Brad Howard. Like, you know, we've sold what, 700,000 copies in the last two, like, two and a half years. Yeah. So, I mean. Cause it's Brad. But like, you know, we. I also am an owner, so Of a product owner. So it's like, I get to see all this stuff, and I just see all these places where we can improve. And I think that's the thing about me that I'm actually really glad to be unleashed on is, like, when I first started training affiliate managers, I said, shit, that was very, like, uncool to them, which is, I don't think we should be sending affiliate managers to events to get fucking wasted on the company credit card. I don't. I think that's embarrassing to me because I'm associated with them and I love to get drunk more than anybody else. So first and foremost, anybody that knows me knows I love to party, okay? I love to party. No one loves to party more than me.

Can I attest to this freaking fact? Okay?

No one loves to party more than me, okay? But the problem with that is, is when I'm there for work, I'm there to close. I'm there to represent the company. I'm there to get business going and of course, I'm going to be passing out drinks and doing the things on the company credit card. But that's not the main focus. The main focus for me is making sure that we're getting a good roi. And when I first started coming in and saying, hey, we need scorecards for the events. Let's take it seriously. Who are you planning on meeting? Why do you want to meet them? What do you want to get out of this? Do you want them to get in your autoresponders, your thank you pages? Do you want them to join your launch? Get clear, just really come in. I started noticing that when I first started doing this and I come into a business and I'd be looking at these things like, why are you not getting ROI from your events? Why are we having down months? Like, what is happening? Have you tried this? Have you done this? Have you done the basics? And the answer was always like, no or every excuse in the book. And so people just didn't, you know, for the first year, it was. I was like, am I in the right, Am I doing the right thing by trying to call out these things in the industry? And I'd go to one company and help them fix it, and that person would leave and go to another company, and then that other second company would hire me to come in and fix it because they were having good results. And that person would leave because they don't like the KPIs and they don't like the quotas and they don't like the cracking down on it. But it's not me being mean. It's. Let's be proud of the work that we do. Let's have a lot of fun in the work that we do. Let's have clarity in the work that we're doing. Right on both sides. And let's just get better. Because when we get better, we reach more people, we're happier, we know, like, what we're doing, our incomes are growing, we have harmony on the team. And yeah, it's not as fun, but it ends up being much more fun in the long run. So I actually really am excited to be unmuzzled because now it's like, well, you know, now I can really talk about, you know, some of the dark stuff. So we can shine a light on it and we can fix it.

Yeah, I love it, dude. There's so much good there. And I mean, everybody seeing the chat, people are just so, so pumped about this, which is awesome. But I totally agree. No, I. Even for, with, with, with my first Self development company. And I remember I implemented KPI's after a year and most people heard me talk, know the whole thing where it's like, I grossed a million dollars the first year and lost 200,000 and the next year I grossed 23 million and netted a couple million. And like you may know, you know, Blake Hartshorn, who was. He transitioned in the second year to kind of our main affiliate person. And then I was very active too. Which I think is important for business owners, especially early on, is like, they probably do need to go out and be the salesperson and help get affiliate bringing them in and then they can hand them off to people who manage those relationships. But I remember I gave Blake these KPIs and we started having weekly meetings where everyone in each kind of department of my company had KPIs. But even on the affiliate side and be able to track like, okay, like, here's our top affiliates, like, here's how many sales they did. And then look at trends over time, right? Like, oh, well, last month this person did this much. This month is down here. What happened? And like, just like looking at the data and treating it like, gasp, a real business and like with real measurable outcomes was just like, you know, this massive game changer and a huge reason we were able to 23x our revenue. So I just really, really, you know, agree. And so find people are saying, just keep rolling on this. We are gonna get his questions in a minute or two. But you know, it's, it's. This stuff is really important. Like. And you know, I think Amber too. One thing I talk about is even as a copywriter, it's like, hey, you know, people ask for advice like I'm an upcoming copywriter or whatever and I'm always like, just obsessively focused at being the best, right? And take it really seriously. Even when I write copy, I think about it like as a bro, I use like sports analogies where I think about if like, you know, Tom Brady, who I don't even like the Patriots or Tom Brady. So it's always funny I use them. But it's like that guy doesn't sort of like half ass it sometimes and he takes some games off, right? It's like that guy's obsessed with being the best and winning and then he's like, the best. Like Michael Jordan wasn't sort of like, I'm gonna take the season off, right? They came in all the time. And like, you know, when you do that, like when you do those processes and you focus on that. The outcomes happen. And it's the same thing with affiliate management and building relationships and driving sales. And so I just love hearing you say that, because even. That nobody wants to talk about. And yeah, even, gosh, at events I've had the same thing where it's like we have. We send people to an affiliate event, and even this is not just affiliate managers, but on our call center, we did it. And then you hear that, like, they're like, blackout drunk, like, getting lost, like, can't find their way to the hotel. And it's like, okay, so I just paid for you to go have your, like, get away from your family and get blackout drunk. And like, that's why I'm paying you. So I like that you kind of came with a, you know, crack the whip kind of mindset a bit there. It's good.

Yeah. And I mean, it's like, you're right. It's stuff that no one wants to do and no one wants to talk about. Right. Like, no business owner that I know, for them, I mean, for the most part that I've met, they really don't want to sit down and, and like, make scorecards and hold their team to it. They really don't want to manage their affiliate managers. What they want is to just wave a magic wand to pay an experience affiliate manager to come into their business with their network of contacts, take over their, you know, their affiliate program and just grow the revenue without any problems whatsoever. Right. And just like, blow it up from. That's what they want. And I get that, and I understand that. And there are a few people in our industry that I can think of, you know, just top of mind, that could do things like that. Right. You know, people always ask me, who are my favorite affiliate managers? Jamie Matorano, she's one of the absolute best people I've ever worked with. You could pay her. She can come in and do that. Christina McKay. Right. You can pay her to come in and do that. These are people that have had track records of success over and over and over again. So, you know, people like that are worth top dollar, right? And then it's just like looking at the rest of people, it's like, how many at bats have they had? You know, not everybody is a unicorn. And, like, they need structure, they need stability, they need systems. Right. Like, to really succeed, to do what you want them to do. And then also they need constant motivation and support, which I just think that, you know, most people just can't do from the owner side or they're not willing to do it. I'm always just, like I said, befuddled. Like, why are you not spending time with people who are generating money for you? Why will you not slow down and see what's working, what's not working, what needs to be adjusted? And you know, when you're talking about, I want to go back to what you said. Like, as an owner, if you're just starting and you're the owner of an offer, you really should be going around and meeting the top affiliates yourself and building relationships with them, because that's going to be critically important to your success. And then once you hire an affiliate manager, one thing that I really want to make clear to everyone on the call and in general is sometimes as a business owner, you're still going to have to step in with some of those relationships because they're not going to talk to your team. Some people just aren't. And then if you keep hammering on your team, like, why didn't you talk to this affiliate partner that's a buddy of mine who should answer your emails? It's, well, I need your help because I don't have that relationship with him. This person doesn't look at me as a peer, he looks at you as a peer. And I need your help. And then they start getting salty about it and they're like, well, why do I pay you then? And it's like, well, you pay me to handle the 99 other percent of the people, right? And, like, motivate them. And I need your help. And really, I think that's a big thing that I see a lot in the industry is like, you know, how do you, how do you kind of manage and navigate all this and, and how much leeway do you give and how do you get these people on each side of the aisle, the affiliates, the affiliate managers, to collaborate and play together in a good, cohesive way so you can keep your affiliate revenue going like this instead of being like a freaking roller coaster. You're having, like whiplash all the time and you don't know what's going on. Part of that is no KPIs, no support, no continued education, right? Like, you just, you have to keep watering it and that's how it grows and grows consistently.

Yeah, I love that one. And I think, yes. Funny, I was just seeing as you're talking about, these are just gonna be like random examples. But it's like, you know, Bob Iger, who's the CEO of Disney, and he has a pretty good book. I like his book. But like, you know, he'll talk about when they're opening up their first Disney park in Shanghai, and he's like, they're like meeting with different, like, people from the Chinese government or their strategic business partners, or like, if Warren Buffett's trying to do a deal, he goes and meets with people, right? There's certain people that like the bit. Even these billionaires are going to and trying to wine and dine or court or develop relationships. And it's like, if they're doing that, like, Jeff Bezos is like the richest man in history and he'll go meet with important vendors, right? If he's good enough to do that, like, why are. But for you, it's like your affiliate manager you hired two months ago, like, they should handle everything and you should just be able to like, you know, be on the beach. And again, they'll be able to handle a lot of it. But I. But I. But it's true. I'm totally guilty of that as well. I've made that mistake of I'm gonna throw money at it. I'm gonna hire a bunch of affiliate managers and like, hey, go, you know, bring in your book and go. Just drive sales. And then you're like, why aren't you. Like, you know, why aren't you doing it? And it's like, they are driving sales, but there's certain ones where your personal relationship is important. So. Yeah, I just, I think that's great advice too. Amber, tell him.

Yeah. And I would say thanks. And I would say, you know, this is. This comes up a lot. But when you're thinking about hiring an affiliate manager, right? And you're thinking about bringing them on board. I would do a few different things for due diligence. One, definitely check their track record, right? Like, it's just like so many of these gurus that we hear about, right? It's like they had one multimillion dollar launch and now they're teaching everybody how to do a million dollar launch. And it's like, dude, like, come on. Like, I get it. You have something to teach. But are you. Should you be charging the same rates as someone who's done 40 multi million dollar launches? Probably not, right? Like, do your due diligence and look at it and make sure you have consistent wins over time. That's a big one. So really look at their track record. Talk to the companies that they came from. This is a small industry. Really figure out what their, you know, their strengths and weaknesses. And then coming in and just having that Conversation. Hey, you have a book of business, right? I do. It's my phone, right? So like, is my book of business, right? That's why they hire me. It's like, it's not just the gift of gab, right? It's like the connections and stuff that I have. But I have a real conversation. Okay, let's talk about all the people that you have close relationships with with. Can you call? Are you so close that you can call them and get them re engaged into the company? Are you so close that you can with confidence say, yes, I can bring this person in here, or are you going to need my help? Right. Or is this somebody that you just talk to through your owner? You were only cc'd on the emails. You really don't have a relationship with these people, right? Really kind of figure out what this book of business does and then sit down and have a conversation with them. Hey, if I'm paying you four or five $10,000 a month plus a percentage, like, how much of an increase of my current numbers do you predict that you can do? Right? And let's have a real candid conversation about my offers because another thing I see people doing is like, they're like, yeah, I hired the super, super experienced affiliate manager. Oh my God, crushing it. He or she has been around for 10 plus years. They're amazing. And I look at them like, okay, well, you're in the health space and this person came from pd, right?

Yeah.

So like, what are you. You know what I mean? Like, I get they have a big book of business, but a big book of business in another niche. So like, they have the skill sets, they don't have the contacts. Right. You know, and just like really looking at like, where they're coming from and like, what your expectation is. Because if I were hiring, you know, and I was hiring someone with experience, I would want to hire someone experience, track record in my niche, right. With a bunch of contacts in my niche that they or they have close relationships with. I may or may not know, but I know that my contacts are in good hands with them or they bring new contacts with them that are going to be valuable. Not just a bunch, but like some really good quality contacts that can drive a lot of business. And if not, then I would say, you know, higher on attitude. Do the Colby score, build them from the ground up. You are going to have to give them your relationships and watch it closely and tend to them. But you're gonna pay a lot less money, right? And it's gonna be a very different experience, you'll have them in house. And this is just kind of like looking at these different things, like really understand when you're bringing someone on what you're actually doing. And also looking to see if they're a culture fit. Right. Like, are they a lone wolf? You know, are they someone that bounces around company to company? I call them mercenaries. We all know who these people are, right? I'm not, I don't need to say any names. We see what affiliate managers bounce from company to company to company. They're mercenaries. Yeah, right. And there's nothing wrong with that, by the way. I used to be a mercenary. So I'm not, I'm not, you know, throwing stones at Glass House. Before I started our company, that's what I did. I was a mercenary. I paid me a lot of money to come in. I'd bring a big book of business, I'd bring in a bunch of traffic, I'd bring in a bunch of relationships, and then I leave. Right. And I dramatically impacted their bottom line and I helped them a lot. But like, if anybody thought that I was going to be there for the long run, they were wrong. And if I made them think that, that was wrong of me. Right? Because like, that wasn't my interest was to stay and to build this company with them and to be an in house employee. I'm not a very good employee. I'm actually a terrible one. So you really don't want me in there. Right? But like understanding who you're working with, are you working with an evangelist? Someone who loves your company, loves what you're doing, they'll do anything for you. They're just so proud and so excited to be a part of your company. You're going to treat them differently than a mercenary, right? And then you have like all these amazing, I call them team players, everybody else in between that are like hard working, heart centered, you know, really wanting to do well in the space, which I think by and large that's 95, 99% of people in our industry that are fleet managers. They really want to do better, they really want to succeed in their role. But they're bouncing around a lot of times because maybe they're underpaid and they're overworked and maybe they, you know, they're, they don't have structure. Maybe they can never get ahold of their owner. You know, maybe they just feel totally isolated, alone. They don't know if they're actually hitting goals or not. Right. Like that's where I see a Lot of the turnover happening.

Yeah. No, I love this. I have. Gosh, we could have such a long conversation about this, and I love it. This is fire. So. Okay, that being said, I do want to try to answer some questions and get to those. And, you know, man, we gotta just get together and record more stuff. By the way, I don't know. Jason. Katasi was like. He replied to my email about you last night and was like, is Amber still in San Diego? I haven't seen her in a year. So I emailed your Gmail, your personal one. But now he wants to get. He wants us all to get dinner, so just. See, I love that. Yeah.

I love Katasi.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100%. Count me in.

Okay. Yeah, I know. Me too. Yeah. This is tequila going, but nobody parties harder than me.

Amber Spears.

That'll be the takeaway. Challenge accepted, though.

Let's go.

Yeah, let's go. We can do this. Hey, Ed. So that being said, I know we've got. It looks like 18 things in the Q and A. And let's go ahead and answer some questions and do that for sure.

So I see a good question here from Christy Johnson. Asked for putting the Q and A chat, but I don't think she saw. But I'll still answer because it's a good question. Amber, what would you recommend for copywriters working with people brand new to the affiliate world?

Nice. And we're gonna let. What we usually do is we'll give that. The person who asked a question. We'll let them kind of come on, and we'll unmute them and let them kind of give context. So I don't know if you knew that, Christie. Not surprised, but what's up, Christy?

Not turning on my video.

That's okay.

Let's go.

How you doing?

Great.

How are you?

Good. I'm always, you know. You know, you're my favorite people. I'm always so happy to. To see you, interact with you. Aw.

Y' all are my favorite people, too.

Love you, Christy. She's such a gem.

She is a gem.

All right.

Yeah.

For offer owners who are new to affiliate marketing, those are the only people I'm working with right now. And I'm really clear that this is what I'm called to do, and I'm loving it. And I'm just curious to know, what kind of recommendations would you give to a copywriter working with someone new like them? So far, it's going very smoothly, but just in case there are. We haven't launched yet. We launch next week. So.

Okay, I love this question. I love this question because I'm so glad that it's going smoothly for you right now, because my prediction is that it will not. And here, and here's, and here's what I'm just gonna say to anyone on the call, because this is a sales related thing, is laying the expectation clearly in the front. Here's the thing, people are new to affiliate marketing. They don't understand the value that you bring in. They don't, they have no idea, right? They have all these expectations in their mind. They think that you're a wizard that can do all these things for them, and they don't really understand a lot of times what they're actually dealing with, right? So what I would say first and foremost is sit down and really map out, which is a little bit too late right now, but I would do it before the clicks go out and the testing goes out for your affiliate funnel. I would just say sit down and really have a conversation like, you know, what is your expectation for this? You know, from me? You know, like, and here's, I'll give you a really great example. We brought on a client two years ago who is amazing. She's like one of my favorite people, right? And we, we signed her, we signed her up and we're going through the discovery call with her and we're like, okay, how many, you know, how many opt ins do you want to do? Do you want us to do permit month for you? And she's like 40,000amonth. And we're like, okay, cool. You know, we've, we've done that many, many times. Like, no big deal. But how many are you doing right now? Well, my list is 40,000 names right now. I'm like, okay, so it's taken you three years to get to 40,000 names, and you want me to bring you 40,000 names a month without, without running it ourselves and knowing how it really performs, without knowing if your tech stack can actually support that much traffic. You know, all these things without knowing the conversion rate, without knowing if you pay affiliates on time, without knowing all. So the answer is no. That's completely out of the realm of reality. And I think we should start at a norm, like, you know, let's try 4000 opt ins a month, right? But like, you would not have known this had you not done a real deep discovery, you know, in the beginning. What are your expectations of me, right? Or if they had come to you and say, Christy, you know, out the gate, I expected 15% conversion rate and you're like, dude, this is like a brand new. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is. What are you saying? And they're like, Well, I get 15% conversion rate from my own list. It's like, yeah, from your own. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you really have to dig into the expectations up front, and you need to get it in writing because people will forget, right? And get it really clear. Is it 15? Are they paying you 15% of nets? Are they paying you 15% of gross? Is a huge freaking difference how you're billing and what your motivation is and, like, all these different things, right? Like, just really getting clear is so, so, so, so important. Do all the hard stuff in the front. See, here's my. My. What's happened to me in my life could be my reality. But everyone wants to talk about all the good stuff. Dude, we do this launch together, we're gonna blow it up. You know, I'm gonna hire you. You're gonna be my number one copyright for the rest of my life. Like, I can't wait. We always talking about this stuff, but what we don't talk about is, hey, hey, what happens if this goes poorly? What happens if I completely miss your expectations? How many rewrites am I willing to do and by what time, right? And, you know, what are all. What are all these things that, like, you know, you expect of me if you, you know, if you go MIA for three months and then you come back, you know, three months later and out of the blue, want an entirely new rewrite? Like, how do we manage that? You know, if you can't afford to pay me, if. If you're paying me too much on the back end, what do we do about that? How do we make each other whole? These are just like. These are just things that I just don't see anybody doing really, really well for the most part, until they get hurt, and then they're trying to figure out how to fix it, right? And it's. It's this. It's the expectation setting at the very beginning. So if you're a copywriter working with the client, talk about the good stuff and the bad stuff, right? Because both of those matter and really have a conversation, have deadlines, have expectations. You know, copywriters are notorious for not making deadlines. We know this for everyone on this phone call. Why not? Because it.

Because I think I have a deadline for tomorrow that I'm like.

Right, right. But like. And having that conversation, right? It's like, hey, you know, what do we do? Around deadlines, there could be things like, we have an actual deadline, which is like the deadline. This is like the dead day deadline, which is September 5th. And then we have like the loose deadline, which is, I would like to see it by September 1st. Right. But I need it by the 5th because if it's not in by the 5th, I can't do my launch right. So just getting really clear around all these things and how to communicate, you know, what's the best way to communicate with you? You know, is it through Skype, Is it through Slack, Is it through text, Is it through phone? Like, you know, how often do you want to talk to me? How often do you want me to check in with you? Like, you know, all these things. Get this all out of the way up front. You are going to really, really have a much smoother time down the road. And you're also going to know, you know, I like to do a thing. And this is from Alona, where it's like, what are you going to be thrilled with, what are you going to be happy with and what are you going to be disappointed with? Let's get really clear on each one of these things so that I know what to really strive for. I know it's going to make you happy. If I do this, you're going to. You're going to. You're going to refer me to your friends, and if we're here, you're going to be disappointed. We need to figure out a way to make each other whole. Right. And just get really, really, really clear on that.

So thankfully, I did set expectations with her. She's had a few failed launches. She's tried to have Traffic driven to it. She's in Traffic Tribe. Our challenges, we didn't know, Like, I'm not trying to put you on front street right here, but I just realized something. So Stephan has the ability to submit copy for feedback. I don't think we do. So we're both a little terrified because nobody's looked over our stuff. So we don't know. You're like, oh, God, what do we do? So we set expectations. It'd be great to have eyes on the copy prior to launch. I don't know how that might work in Traffic Tribe, but, yeah, expectations have definitely been set really, really hard. I'm setting them almost every day. Even though I set them from the beginning.

It's smart. It's really important for everyone. And I like that you keep checking in on those expectations and having that conversation. Like what I see a lot of people Doing is they set the expectations up front, and they never revisit them, and they never go back to see, like, are we on track for these things? And if we are or we are not. If we are, we need to make sure we congratulate ourselves.

Right? Right.

Because we just don't do that. Most of us celebrate until the end. It's like the grind. It should be celebrated, too, if you're moving forward on it. And if you're not having that conference, hey, you know what? I thought I could do it by September 5th. You know, my house burned down. I don't even have a laptop right now. So we're going to need to readjust at this time. Right. Just like, I. You know, just really, like, continue. And that's the same thing with affiliate managers. Like, if you set their quotas at the beginning of the month, you should be checking in on them weekly. Hey, are we going to hit this quota? Why are we not? Do you need my help? Who's balking? Who's stopping? Who's the bottleneck here? Let's figure out what's going on and just keep doing that. But I would say, great, Christy, if you have not had any issues, but expectations are a bitch, and everyone has a different vision. If I tell you right now, think about a box, every single one of us are gonna think, someone's gonna think of a cardboard box, someone's thinking of a plastic box. Someone's gonna think of, you know, just, like, different. Like, we all think things differently. And so that's why it's important to just get it out and get really good. Get specifics from your client. Not, I want to make a million dollars this year. It's like, okay, well. Okay, well, let's break it down. What really, is that per month, and probably month one, it's not going to do as good. Right. So, you know, just, like, really, really getting clarity. Okay. If we don't hit a million dollars, what would you be happy with? Well, I'd actually be happy with 200k. Wow, that's a stretch. So maybe we should put the stretches at 300,000. You're happy at 200,000. We're disappointed at 100,000. Yeah, right. Just really, like, that's. That's the range.

Thank you.

Of course.

Sorry, Chrissy, I didn't mean to talk. But, Chrissy, thanks for that question. That was an awesome one. And always such a pleasure to have you. Yeah, Amber, I love that. Two things that came to mind, too, was you were just dropping crazy amounts of wisdom and if you look at the chat, all people are just like. One person was like. I think Pedro was like, where. Where do I. Where do I pay the invoice for the value that I'm dropping on this call? I think you're dropping.

Send me my PayPal.

Yeah, yeah, shoot it over. Ye. Hey, Amber. @. But, yeah, so I love that goal thing. Like, you know, Justin and I hired Jen Kim and her team to help us with our events, and she's been awesome. I always sing Jen Kim's praises. And they did the same thing with our event for Copy Accelerator back in February. And then now they're helping with this virtual event, and it's like, even goals for. Okay, we're selling tickets. So, all right, what's, like, the minimum amount of tickets that we're gonna sell? What's like the, you know, we're happy one? And what's our stretch goal? And then, obviously, people come to our Mastermind. We're hoping that they'll enroll into our Mastermind. So same thing there. And it's actually just so helpful. So, for example, for the virtual event, the goal was like, all right, well, if we, you know, sold 80 tickets, we'd be like, you know, that's kind of the must, right? Cause it's a virtual event. It's half the price. A hundred is like, we're really happy. And if we get to, like, 120, 130, that's, like, huge hit. Out of the park. And I think we're at 104, 105 tickets sold right now, which is awesome. So it's like. But then just knowing having that measurement of, like, okay, perfect, and it gives you more calm, I think, because then, you know, like, it's like, there's an alignment for, like, cool. This is my expectation. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. It's working. And you're not sitting there sort of freaking out about, you know, should I have done better? Should I have done worse? You've already premeditated what those outcomes are. And of course, now there's still 24 hours. And there's always people who come at the last minute and buy tickets because we stopped selling tickets tomorrow for the event. And so probably get another, like, I don't know, five to 10 or even 20 tickets. Who knows? But. But I just think that's really good advice. So that was awesome. One other cool thing I wanted to mention, and this is Brian Spirinello, who's a Copy Accelerator full Mastermind member. Shared. This is for Copywriters, I think you may find this valuable is having a kill fee sometimes in your contract from like a royalty standpoint, things like that, where it's like, if you don't launch within X amount of time upon me delivering the final copy to you, then you basically just give me this money because, like. And I don't ask for royalties in the future, but, like, he almost has that. So this is a. I don't know why that came up. I guess because of the expectation how things can take a bit longer. But I actually think that's one of the coolest things, is like, hey, like, you know, I'm gonna give you copy, I'll meet my deadline. But, you know, you've said that you're gonna launch this in the next month or two months or whatever, but even then you have to have that conversation. Okay, well, when do you think realistically you're gonna launch this by and like, oh, you know, what happens if it takes longer? Well, it could take this long. Okay, well, what happens if it goes past even that length of time? You know what I mean? Like, because I'm, I'm doing at this rate because I have this expectation of royalties. But what happens if that. Having those. It seems like a weird thing to have, like a weird conversation or weird thing to put in, but it's actually super brilliant because then you're like, protected. You're like, you've had that conversation. What happens if they get busy or they decide not to launch it or whatever. And so just having planning for the worst as well as the best is just. I love that advice. So just awesome stuff. So.

Good. Yeah, I agree with you. I think, I think that's like. And I'm just going to put myself in an affiliate manager's shoes for a moment. Think of how nice it would be for your affiliate manager to know what your expectation was for them in terms of results every single month or every single week and really know based on just pure data and your efforts, where you are, right where you are with the company. And same thing for an owner, right, to just know. And when you get this clarity with them, where are we in this? And. And Chris Guerrero, I would love for you to meet him. But Chris has taught me something that I've been using like a ton in my business, which is looking at, you know, loan and I are business partners. So when we first started, we looked at, you know, our company as us.

Right? It's.

Us. We're besties. You know, we're. We're in this together. It's our company. We're driving together. There's really three of us in this relationship. It's her, it's me, and it's the company. Right. Like, really, we have a responsibility to the company. So when we start looking at things, you know, from that perspective, it makes it easier for me to take off my, you know, my friend hat to the team. Because my team, I love my team. They're, like my favorite people. Like, a lot. They're my friends, too. But there's a time where I need to take off my friend hat and I need to put on my owner hat, and I need to look at it from my responsibility to the company, which is making sure that these numbers are being hit, making sure that we're tracking the right things, making sure that we're doing the right things. And part of that is that, you know, what are you thrilled with? What are you happy with? You know, what are you not happy with? Where are we at? And looking at these things objectively, that's why they're set up so that we can not only know where we're at, but also to have a little bit of space from the emotion of it. And I really think, you know, and you'll hear, I do this with my team, like, hey, I'm taking off my friend hat here, and I'm putting on my owner hat here. Which means, you know, I'm looking at this from the perspective of the company, which means you're underperforming. Right. And I need to know what's going on here. Like, why is it I need to dig in? Is it a personal thing? Is it that you're getting bottlenecked by me? You know, feel free to tell me, because my responsibility is to the company at the end of the day, and it's not me and Alona, because if it was me and Alona, we would make different decisions. Like, looking at it from that. That perspective of the company has been very, very helpful for me. And. And it's changed the way that we've run our team. It's changed the way that I look at opportunities. It's changed the way that I handle clients, you know, that won't pay us, for example, before it's like, client comes to us and, like, oh, my God, I had a terrible launch, you know, like. Or like, I'm extended this way. And I'd be like, okay, well, if you had a bad launch, you know, we're taking a piece of the launch. So we also did not hit our numbers. Right? But I'm going to be, you know, giving you even more of a break now. It's like, sorry, from the perspective of the company, we need to get paid. We already took a loss and, you know, we brought all the thunder, we brought all the clicks that we said we would do. We recruited all the affiliates that we said we would do, and we need to get paid what we were promised. And it's the same thing with.

Employees.

Right? Like, and I just think, like, for anyone on the call, it's an owner, like, putting that hat on, looking at things from, you know, as a company, you know, even if you're the sole owner, there's two of you in that relationship. It's you and the company. That's a living and breathing entity. And that's the reason why I like Those things like KPIs and scorecards and really knowing where you're at every day. As an affiliate manager, I know, like, let's say that I'm supposed to be hitting, you know, a hundred thousand dollars a month in sales and I'm only hitting 30 every month. I should be feeling anxiety for my job. Yeah, right. And if you're the owner sitting there looking at it every single month, they're failing. That should be an indication for you that you need to put and look at things from the company perspective. It might not even be their fault. It could be your fault. Right. It could be that you're not paying affiliates and no one wants to work with you anymore. Yeah, it could be that your offers in there actually. Right, okay, well, we paid.

Them. But like, when you get behind for a minute and then you're like, oh. And then it's like, but you can't be mad at affiliate manager, right? If you're like, something happens like that. So. Yeah.

Right. But listen, by the way, that happened to us too. So, like two years ago, we are 1.7 million in the red with the keto company that we have at Brad Howard. And, you know, we still have it and we dug out of it, but it took us a year to dig out of it. And it was horrible for us to go and not be, you know, because we vastly. What happens? We vastly overpaid a CPA on a. We were doing thousand, two thousand sales a day at $19 CPA for free plus shipping keto cookbook. We thought we could dig out of it and it took us a year and a half to do it, but. And we were behind. Right? So, like, it was tough. It was tough for us to have those conversations to keep going back into the room, you know. But no, but we were like, we are going to pay this and we did and I'm really proud of us for doing that. But you know, it was it that happened. So also understanding what's happening at a company perspective to prevent affiliate managers from hitting goals because it could be that the affiliate manager is hanging out, you know, we're virtual right now. They could just be like fucking off all day, you know what I mean? Like you don't know, like you have no idea. Or it could be that, you know, they're trying, trying, trying their hardest but they're running into all these obstacles that the company's put in front of them including things like broken tech or not paying affiliates or you know, the offer is fatigued, you haven't had any new assets in forever. Right. It could be just so many different things. But without looking at the data and measuring it and having these clear expectations and these tough conversations, that's where it starts to get really.

Muddled. Yeah, 100%. No. That's so cool. I mean it's so funny to think about and I will get to another question and like five, five seconds. But yeah, it's like I, with my first house of company we got behind a little bit. Not with affiliates as much. Well one affiliate because like basically my county just didn't pay them and I thought they did. And then I realized I had this big like you know, six figure bill and then we basically were like, hey, we'll pay you over X amount of months and cash flowed it and it was fine. Then I did. I don't think you would mind me saying this but I had the ventures of Dane Alexander and we had a bank seize like, you know, several million dollars worth of money. And then we got behind but we paid everyone back. And then with my agency it happened because a bunch of reasons and like, you know, hasn't really happened with Cody fortunately because I think eventually the experience, you get better at it. But that's an important thing to know too because you see people and they have these businesses and they're doing high numbers and you're like, oh, everything must be great. But even you know, at a high level issues are going to happen. That's part of the nature of business. And I mean looking at with Brad, the story you just shared there, it's like, yeah. And then research has done like 70 million I think so far since it launched. And so he's got basically like a $70 million offer in a couple.

Months. So proud of him. Yeah. But, like, I mean, he's. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to be partners with him and have, you know, that mentoring, like, you know, he. He put the bulk of that on his back. Like, literally when we were 1.7 million in the red, that man put that on his back. And he was like, we're going to figure this out. You know, I made the call to do a bigger cpa. We're going to figure this out. Literally was paying off people on his own amex month after month after month. This was before research, you know, like. Like, this man cannot tell you his integrity. And that's the reason why, you know, one of the reasons why I love him so much, but also because he also understands it's our word and our reputation on the line to pay these people right and to get it done. I don't care if it takes me 15 years to pay it off. But through his brilliance and him moving things around and Ilona, you know, and her, like, you know, brilliant mind, they're just like, you focus with the team on booking traffic. Like, we'll figure out this stuff with the money. But, like, you know, I still had to, you know, navigate those conversations because who are they going to talk to? Hey, you owe us money. Yeah, we want to promote you, but you owe us 70 grand. But that's the thing. It's just like, showing up with integrity and being willing to have those tough conversations and going to people and be like, yeah, I get it. You know, we're trying to pay down that bill, but, like, how are we going to pay down that bill? We don't get more traffic, you know what I mean? You know, so it's just. It's such, like, a balance, but being willing to stick into it and stick with it and just keep, you know, coming back and keep doing, like, everything that you can to keep your reputation intact is just, like, so.

Important. 100%. Yeah, just having integrity. And I think, yeah, people forgive a lot of your sins if you have integrity, if you have and being open, communicating. But it's also like, not giving up. I mean, that's the big thing, right? If Brad gave up when he's 1.7 in the hole and, like, you know, then he doesn't ever has resurgence, huge success and all that kind of stuff. And like, I, you know, I can relate to that for my own ventures where I've had challenges, and I would give Dane Alexander that same credit as well, where, you know, we had issues and. Yeah, man, so that's the thing, right? It's like for all, like the dark days, like, never last forever, right. But you have to get through them and you have to go through hell to get to heaven. And like, it's just such an important thing. And the problem for a lot of people is that they get into hell, say this sucks, and then sort of just jump out and go back to purgatory, but they never reach heaven. That's using an elaborate metaphor, but like, you know, one that I think makes sense. So that's awesome. Ed, let's do another. Let's do another.

Question. Dude, this is so good. Like, holy shit.

Andrew. I appreciate that. Me unmuzzled. I'm usually not that.

Muzzled. You're getting book. You're getting book titles from the chat too. I don't know if you've seen a couple of them, but it's like unmuzzled. The Amber. I love.

It. I love it. Thanks guys. You guys are the copywriters.

Here? Yeah, I love.

It. I'll take.

It. Oh.

Man. All right, cool. So we got a question from Conrad. Conrad asks, how do you determine the best way to measure success from your emails? Earnings per subscriber versus percentage of revenue or something.

Else. Yeah, what's up? We have a Conrad Ask. Yeah, what's up, Conrad? How you doing.

Man? Good, man, good. Big kudos to you and Ed for the show and always bringing on these amazing guests. So, yeah, just. Yeah, so I guess a little backstory. So I've been writing emails for a while. For a long time I was writing for more. So like coach people selling courses and like coaching and stuff like that. And so smaller lists, like 10,000 people and stuff like that. So we, you know, so you.

Do.

Well. Anyway, so now I'm right. Over the last couple of months I started moving into writing for e comm people and so smaller, smaller priced items, smaller ticket items, maybe more items, but. But much larger.

List.

Right. And so, so yes, I guess just trying to see. Yeah. How you guys measure email success. So I guess like one of my main clients right now, we went from. They just started emailing in June. Really. And so they were at about 14% of revenue from email. And we've taken them way up. Like July was 27% and last month was 38%. But we're still at like 50 cents per subscriber. Whereas normally, like again, the stuff that I was doing before it was, you know, like a dollar per subscriber or more, of course, was, was like the standard. And it's just, you know, it's Kind of. I don't, I don't even know right now if we'll get to even a dollar per subscriber with, with some of these econ people. But again, the percentage of revenue is, is, you know, is pretty significant. And I guess I never even knew that number before working with the other people. I didn't know what they were doing outside of email. I just knew what we were doing with email.

So.

Sweet. Does that make any.

Sense? Yes. A lot of context. But then, Amber. Yeah, I know you're already ready to go. You had, I think you had some insights there. So I'll let you tackle it if you're feeling.

Good. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I was homeschool. I never learned math. So the only math I know is money math. I'm really good at figuring out how to get the money, where to get the money from, you know, what a good deal is for JVs, all that stuff. So I will say that I'm not the right person to ask because I'm not an email marketing expert. What I will say to you is it sounds, it's great that you're increasing the revenue month after month after month. Right. Which is like, it's going in the right direction. But I think for our perspective from an affiliate lens, what I would say is just rough money math. I'd want to see over a dollar per click, which in itself is not the best. You still need to know on the other side, like what the open and the click through rate was on email because it's a huge factor of this. Like did it actually perform well on their side? In addition to the actual conversion rate on the page, the opt in to the lead, like all that stuff is important. I think most people only focus on EPC or revenue per user per name, but there's a lot of other metrics that go into that that I would really be looking at. I'm a little suspicious whenever I see someone being like, oh, it was, you know, we had a $7 earning per click. And I'm like, cool. Well, your segment must have been tiny, right? Like, let's just like the 200.

People we emailed it to, they went crazy.

Crash. Yeah, crash. And it's like, I really want to know, like what, how big of a list did you send it to? How many clicks did you actually get from it? What was the open and click through rate compared to other, you know, promotions that were being sent? Right. Like really understanding that journey. And I think, you know, as affiliate managers and offer owners, we always Want to showcase our offer in the best light. But, you know, I'll tell you, one and a half percent, 1% conversion rate with a really good CPA is great. Like, that's super freaking good. I'll take that all day long. Like Agora's offers, by the way, you know, I'm back there. I used to think their offers convert like 5 plus percent, but being back there, they convert usually around 1%, but they're offering $150 to $250 CPA on it. So it backs out, right? Like, backs out really, really, really well. And it's something that you can scale and like, you know, and Agora always pays their bait, their bills, baby, which I love about them. They always pay their bills, right? You don't have to worry about them when it comes to that. And I just think really kind of looking at every, like, part of this and getting really critical and challenging yourself when you're looking at these numbers from an affiliate perspective, like, you know, if you see an insane conversion rate, do you trust it? Do you trust the person that's telling it to you? Can you dig a little bit more and see, like, how big was this actual test before I start bombing away to my entire email list on it. Like, you're just really getting clarity. And then when you find those right opportunities, double down on them. Because there are some offers, I mean, like, research, like, why would you not be sending that every single week? The offer is crushing it. You know what I mean? Like another one, a good one is Alex Miller. She's pretty new on the space. Emily Lark trained her. She has her pelvic floor offer. Like, the offer is crushing it, right? So looking at offers that are doing well and keep mailing it because you're seeing everybody else from on it, that's another good indicator. If Mike Geary and, you know, Joel, Mary and all these guys keep mailing a certain offer on email, you know, it's doing well. So it's a long winded way of saying that I don't know the exact answer to your question, but that's how I'd be looking at different.

Numbers. Does that help some.

Comrade? Yeah. Thank you for that answer because I did expect a more thorough answer.

Than I.

Asked.

So. No, that's good. Just give me some other things to think about and to take back to the offer owner to, you know, talk about these different metrics as.

Well. So 100%. Awesome.

Man. And by the way, yeah, before I forget, Connor, I Dee Braun has some good free, like, training videos on her. I think it's called strategy Overdrive. But if you're not in the direct response email marketers group there, there's a bunch of. She's. She's been doing affiliate management for like.

20. Yeah, she's great. She's like the true.

Godmother. Yeah, she's the God, the. The grandmother of it. So definitely, I'll put in the chat. Yeah. But I think, you know, that's, you know, she's really great at going into those numbers. In fact, we also have, you know, Christina McKay is another good one. But, you know, I would look at Dee and I would talk to, like, people that are great email marketers, you know, like Ryan Saplin, Ed Scow, Mike, you know, Tyler Bramm, all. I mean, you have Natural Health Sherpa in here. D represents Natural Health Sherpa. You have, you know, Jeff Radich, I mean, and Mark Stockman. Like, those guys. I would be asking them questions around true email marketing because they're doing it at such volume. List. Graham is another great one. Jimmy Kim, you know, guys like.

That. Awesome, Cool. Thanks for the question, Conrad. I appreciate it, man. And I did put in. I put, yeah, Dee Brown wrote her name in there. And then I linked to her. Her group as well. So you can check it out. Yeah. See more questions. Ed Ray, who we got.

Next? All right, yo, real quick, Amber. One thing I want to say is, like, I love that everything that you've talked about so far, you're so big on setting.

Expectations.

Just. That's so awesome to see. So thank.

You. Yeah, of course. Because I've been. I've been hurt before. I've hurt and I've been hurt. So I think it's like, you know, that's.

Why. Got you. All right, next up, Kimmy Do. She asks how to scale VSL with.

Affiliates.

Awesome. How do you scale VSL with.

Affiliates? Kimmy, what's.

Up? Hi.

Steph. What's.

Up? How you doing? Yeah, so it was a pretty straightforward question. Any more context you want to add to it.

Kimmy? No, that's.

It. Okay. And Amber, if you don't know, can we do one of my favorites? She's 16, crushing it has all kinds of clients. It's like, if I, you know, I joke about wanting to be Amber when I grow up, I also want to be Kimmy do when I grow up. I'm like, oh, my God, if I was her at 16, I would just be like a billionaire today. She's awesome. So always get pumped up whenever, every time so.

Cool. Yeah, so cool. I just say real quick. I mean you just need people to test it, you know, like that's the main thing is like VSL or long form sales page or webinar, whatever it is, like it needs to convert point here at the end. You know, everybody always like talks to me, like, what's the secret? It's like the secret is a high converting offer point, peer to the end. I'm not a salmon. I don't enjoy swimming upstream. What I mean by that, I don't like it when things are really super freaking hard, right, for me to book as an affiliate person, right. Like the better the offer, the more people are going to come to you. Like when research first came out, like they had test partners because it's the four of them, right? And they're so well known and they have all this stuff. But then once it started converting, well, they had everybody coming to them. So if it's a vsl, you know, it's just another like entry point to an offer, right? So I think the main thing is like get traffic booked. And what if you're new to the space or you don't have collateral, which is like a big email list to work off of, which many people do not when they first start. You need to do a few things. One, you need to get really connected into the community. So joining a group like this, which is so incredibly valuable and plugging yourself in because that's going to shortcut you to having test partners and having people be willing to open up their Rolodex. Joining a tribe like mine, like Traffic tribe, right? Like where you have the ability to come in and meet people. You need to build your network first. And then two, you need to test, you know, and be smart about where you're testing. Really look at who your test partners are. If you have, you know, a female pelvic floor offer, why are you saying yes to test traffic from a male ED offer? Like it just, it doesn't make any sense, right? Like you really need to get like the right kind of test partners in there, set the expectations. And then also, you know, one thing that I'm just gonna tell you I despise and I'm just gonna publicly say it right now. I don't understand why people spend so much money on tech, on dev, on design, on copy, on the product itself and then they're not willing to spend a little bit of extra money pre paying for a test. What the hell, dude? Like, why are you not doing that? Why are you not Putting money aside for testing because you think just because you have a relationship, they should risk their business and their revenue and their email revenue to mail for you because you're homies. No, some people will do that because they're kind, and some people will do that for you based on the relationship. Some people will even do it for you all day long on a small segment of their list, and that's what they're willing to give up. But put some money behind testing because that is taking the risk completely off of those people and putting some of it on your shoulders. Like when you're planning out your new offer, set aside a little bit money. And I would have that conversation as copywriters with your, with your, you know, people that you're working with is like, hey, like, we really need to get data. We need to get data faster on how this thing is performing. If you wait in line for a, you know, if you wait in line for calendar space, how long are we going to be waiting for and how much data are we really going to be getting? If I prepay for it, I can get the whole list. I can split test different things. You know, I can do a bunch of stuff, but if I'm just waiting in line for a queue with no connections, guess what? Bottom of the list, right? They don't know you. Bottom of the list, right? If you're. You don't have a track record of success. Bottom of the list, you know, I mean, like, you just. If you want to get data and you want to get at bats, get your. Build your relationships and have the conversations and set aside the test money. No, I don't mean ads. I mean, like, buying, like email traffic. So I'm talking, I'm about. I'm an email traffic, you know, baby booth, I think email traffic is where it's at. I'm not really talking about social traffic or, you know, paid ads. I'm talking about straight up email traffic. Like set aside some money to, you know, do paid drops on.

Email. Kimmy, is that. Is that.

Helpful? Yeah, super.

Helpful. Thank you so.

Much. I got a lot of good.

Notes. Awesome. Hey, Kim. Kimmy, I heard that you had a. You may have. May have landed a pretty, pretty big client. Is that official yet? Yeah, it.

Is.

Nice. I want to talk about it. Can't talk about it. Should I not talk about it? I don't know. He told me he was messaging me. He's like, I went with Kimmy Do. I was like, all right, I'm gonna tell it. You don't have to tell it. If he gets mad, it's mad at me. Okay? He won't blame you. Jay, like, J.D. bolt from credit Secrets was trying to hire a copywriter who he could, like, put on retainer and, like, mentor and all that. And, like, all of these people, like, applied. I mean, seriously, he only opened it to Copy Accelerator members full and light. But out of that, a bunch of members of Copy Accelerator applied, but out of all his people, he chose Kimmy dollar plus company. And he was like, that girl's badass. And she did this. Like, her samples were crazy. She was doing this, she was doing that. He was just so impressed with Kimmy. So he messaged me all excited about it and everything. And so, Kimmy, congratulations on that. It's a super exciting.

Opportunity. Thank you so much, Stefan. Like, all of this would not be possible without, like, the amazing communities you built. Like, I'm feeling super grateful right now. Like, I'm like, I'm out of the roof. Like, I'm literally shaking. Like, this is incredible. Thank you so.

Much. Yeah, no, it's awesome. You deserve it, though. You're so talented and smart and just so excited for you and to see things continue to go awesomely for you. So, so great.

Work. So cool. That is so cool.

Congratulations. Thank you so much, Amber. That's a huge.

Compliment. It's.

Huge. Awesome. Cool. Thank you, Kimmy. Hey, let's keep going. Let's keep.

Rocking. Be a savage.

Man. She already is already a.

Savage. Can't even imagine when she's as old as me, you.

Know? I know. She's an ancient 20. Like, I'd.

Write. All right, so question from Gregory. Gregory asked for Amber best strategies for getting affiliates to promote your.

Offer. Probably goes a little bit similar to what you just said. Right. But, Greg, let's go ahead. And you want for a little context.

Greg? Yeah. Well, I'm relatively new to all this, and I'm working with a company, and they're about to launch an offer in the back pain space. But we don't know anything about getting affiliates on.

Board.

Gotcha. Yes. So definitely, I would encourage anybody who doesn't know much about affiliates to not just outsource your knowledge. What I mean by that is don't just hire an affiliate manager because you don't know how to run them or what the expectations are or what affiliates care about. So you don't have to join my thing, but I have Traffic Tribe. It will teach you all the basics, and it will plug you directly into my network. There's 147 affiliate managers or offer owners in that. In that. Primarily health, wealth, financial, pd. We do have some education in there, too. It's growing every single month. So I'd say plug yourself into an existing network like mine or plug yourself into Stefan's group, because this group is full of people that can book for you too. Still learn the foundations. Yeah, I mean, dude, it's $397 a.

Month. When you have a second. Will you link Traffic Tribe in the.

Chat? Yeah, I'll drop it in here. But, like, you know, join my Traffic Tribe. Put your affiliate manager. My Traffic Tribe. There's so many experienced affiliate managers in there because the most important thing is to be seeing each other every single, you know, month with regularity and setting up deals. So educate yourself as an owner, you really need to know what's going on. And you also. What I mean, educate yourself. I don't mean just like the technical part of it, which is, you know, what happens, you know, or how much CPA that you can give, right? What the conversion rate is, making your offer better and all that stuff. But plugging into a network of people that are also different offer owners, you need to be peers with them. That's what you are. Right? So really kind of networking and understanding, like them and where they're going and like, you know, what offers they have, that's a big one. Because if you understand what offers they have and you understand how to play with your own offers with them and if it's a match or not, or if it's more of like a referral thing. So I would just say, you know, really educate yourself and don't just outsource your knowledge. That's one of the biggest issues that I see with most business owners are like, I'm too busy. I'm the creative, I'm the brains, I'm the person. I just want to. I just want to make products. That's all I want to do. I just want to make products. And you know what? Fuck the rest. Have everybody else do it. And then what I see is massive turnover all the time with their affiliate managers because they don't know how to run them, they don't know how to motivate them, they don't know how to keep them. You know, they're just like a constant revolving door. And then, you know, years later, they come back and like, man, if I had just known these few things, like, it would have been different for me. And I could have had a great recurring revenue source, which I like to call it boomerang money, right? Like boomerang money to me is affiliate money because it's like, you know, I take my, my list or my offer, I send it to you, you promote it, you make money, I do the same thing. Then I catch your boomerang and you're just like doing this over and over and over again with your partners. And it can be done. But as the owner, you need to know all those people because your affiliate manager is likely going to change. They're going to be bouncing around from place to place. And that's not a bad thing because every time they bounce from place to place, they meet new people and, and they just keep adding it to their network. But like, you're really understanding here. Like what, what are you doing and what are the potentials here and how do you navigate that get test trap? You know, get money for a test budget. I heard, I saw someone ask how much they set aside for a test budget. As much as you can afford. Yeah, as much as you can afford, Right. I would say a minimum. Put aside $2,000 minimum for some testing. I would like to see 10,000 because then you can get lists like Mike Geary's and Ryan Saplin, some of these other guys who really give you volume because that's what you're really looking for. I see so many offers just dead in the water. They're just sitting there because they can't get anybody to promote them. And their big thing is like, well, I paid all this money to be in a network and no one's promoting me. It's like, yeah, but you also don't know how to ask. You don't know how to ask. You don't know how to follow up. You don't have anyone following up. You're all salty, sitting there upset with me because you're in my cohort. Like, you know, I see it the same thing in every group that we're in. We see people pay 25 grand to be in, you know, Joe Paulus genius network or 40 being war room. And they expect just because they paid and they showed up, that money's going to fall and slap them all over the face. No, it's the same thing. You have to do the follow up and you have to be persistent and you have to be patient. You have to put in the work and you have to set aside the money. You have to pay to play sometimes. And that's just how it is. You pay to get inside the door. The rest is up to you. Right? And I really think that, that's something that I see all the time in these businesses is people are just like, well, now that I'm here, everyone do me a favor and mail for me and promote me. No, no, no. You still have to learn what you're doing. You still have to, you know, do all the additional steps to make it work just like in copy. Right. Just because you're in affiliate Accelerator doesn't mean that you're gonna like magically produce an award winning vsl. Right? You're not. You have to do the work, you have to do the research to do the writing. You have to, you know, have people review it, all that.

Stuff. That's great, Greg. Does that.

Help? Oh my God, that's so helpful. I mean, Traffic Tribe, I didn't even know that existed. So and so, yeah, I, we. Yeah, very, very helpful. It's expanding my vision of business exponentially in the last hour and a half. Amazing. Thank you so.

Much. Of course. My pleasure, My pleasure. And honestly, I love to help. Like, you know, I really do. Like, this is, this is, my passion, is helping people get better. And you know, you guys helped me get better. And you know, I wanted. During COVID this is a switch that we made. And when I talked about retiring my agency, like we have retired it. Meaning that you can't hire us anymore to be your affiliate team unless we're a partner of yours. Unless actually we're an equity partner with you like we are with Brad Howard. Our team is no longer available for hire. We finished it with this last launch with Agora. And why? Well, because I'm making a lot more money running my own offers and I want to build my own business, my own email list, my own revenue that way. However, I'm not going to walk away from my passion, which is elevating this space as much as possible. Having the tough conversations, getting better as a group. Like, I love our affiliate manager community. Like, we all have big hearts, we really care, but a lot of us still need more training. You know, just like in Copy Accelerator, you guys are getting trained every day by the best. Like, in order for affiliate managers to get better, they need to have training, they need to have support. Right? Which is why we built this. So we're going to keep growing the consulting and training side of our business. And I'm never going to retire that because I'm never going to get tired of helping and serving and getting excited about people winning. So for the first time ever, you know, you can work with me and my team for $397 a month. In the past, it was a minimum of $6,000 up to $25,000 a month. You know, people pay it because we do really good work and we bring a lot of money. But, like, you know, the point of me being your sales team for you or my team being your sales team for you is over now, because client work can be very difficult. And once I have, you know, once I'm making enough money over here, you know, with our own offers, now I can teach, and I can just come from that space of having that distance and really not needing them. I don't need the money anymore. I don't need the client work anymore. So this is why you can see me getting just really honest and open about what's really going on and being able to serve in a different way. But, you know, so it's just something that I hope that everyone kind of thinks about. It's like, you know, don't outsource your knowledge. Right? Don't stop learning, because if you're a copywriter, you need to keep learning about copy. If you're a business owner, you need to keep learning about the different parts of your. Of your business and not just farm it out. You know, in 2018, I paid $122,000 to vendors. Not only did it. Did I make no money from that because I kept. Kept trying to outsource my voice and kept trying to outsource all these different things. Not only did I not make money from that, it cost me so much money and time because I had to learn. Guess what? I still need to learn these parts of my business. I can't outsource it. I need to know enough to lead. And that's the same thing with things like Traffic Tribe and, you know, continuing to invest into your team to get better. Right. Don't just, like, hire these affiliate managers and not invest anymore in the success. And don't just outsource your knowledge, meaning, like, you don't know anything about it. And so you're always going to be at the whim of what everybody else tells you about affiliate.

Marketing. Yeah. That's awesome. God.

Amber. I can totally see why Stefan and Amber are on this call together. You both have that vibe of totally giving and certainly helped me personally. Thank.

You.

Awesome. My.

Pleasure.

That's. It's the greatest blessing for.

Me. That's amazing. And I know we've got a few minutes left, and I know, Ed, you're gonna be kind of out in a minute, but you want to get us set up with one more question before you bounce that. And then maybe after that we'll do a couple rapid fire.

Ones. Sounds good. Got a great question here from Mr. John Caprani. John asks if I'm already writing email copy for a retainer client and I see a hot offer in the market. I think their list would like, are they going to be open to me? Creating custom affiliate swipes to mail for that offer on a performance.

Basis. John, what's up, buddy? Let me caught John unawares. He's muted the fire. I see the flame now he's at the gym. All right, we can rapid answer that one then. That's cool. So we look at it again here. I mean, I think the short answer is that they'd be open to it. I mean, it depends on the. The client. Right? I mean, just really. But there's no harm in bringing it to them and being like, hey, you know, like, I see this offer. I think your list would like it. Can I, you know, I can help you make some money and whatever. Like, maybe coming on it. Like, I just depends on the offer owner and what their priority is. That's what I would say. I'm not sure if you agree, Amber, if you have anything to add to.

That. No. Yeah, you're the boss there.

Yeah.

Cool. No, but I will say. Okay. Just.

Kidding. I do the same. I do that to Justin all the time. No, but here's the.

Thing. Yeah. Always customize your swipe. You know what I mean? Like, always. You know, I think it's. It's lazy. Like, of course you want to, like, model off of the thing that's performing the best. So first and foremost, you want to ask people, you know, what email swipe copy is. Converting the best, of course. And. But then model it and kind of change it into your voice because it's going to have, you know, obviously just much better results in general and especially around launches or contests. Like, you know, it doesn't make any sense for everybody to grab the same email swipe copy, load it in their systems, and everyone promote it all at once in a very short amount of time. I think that's one of the reasons why we ruin our deliverability and have so many issues with it. So one of them. Right. So definitely customize the coffee. I don't know about. You know, someone came to me and were like, hey, I noticed that your, you know, your keto resource swipes were fatigued. Like, you know, I can do, like, here's a sample that I just wrote for you. I'd be A lot better than we get these people all the time hitting us up, hey, like, you know, I can write for, you know, swipe through for $4,000. And I'm like, okay. Like, you know, I'd rather have, like, I'd rather have you show me, like, something that you can do for me and then say, hey, if you want this, you know, here's how much it is. I'd be like, okay, that's a little bit different, right? Like, that would be better for us, just as someone on the other side of.

It. Yeah, that's awesome. That makes perfect sense. I know Ed is going to take off. We'll take maybe five minutes and do some rapid answers and stuff like that, if that works. Nope, he just. I was gonna tell Ed, let him say goodbye, but he just disappeared. Bye. Just like that, he was gone. I'm gonna pick a couple. So, you know, Tim asked a quick one. Tim. No one said, how do you balance don't reinvent the wheel with standout and be different? I talk about this from a copy perspective, so I'll tackle that one real quick. Um, I think that when I say don't reinvent the wheel, it means, like, there's a structure that's, like, you know, common to all of these successful offers or all the successful copy. And it's like if you look at a bunch of, like, clickbank weight loss supplement offers and they're all doing the same thing, then, like, you should follow that same structure. You know, how you're different is you find a more unique story or you find, you know, a different aspect. I mean, I think you can still have differentiators in there, like with, you know, health supplements. And, like, my first supplement company being, like, Christian, like supplements, I basically found a way to, like, tie in these ingredients, like the Bible and biblical ingredients. So it's like I was targeting the same things that all these other people were, you know, already, like, there's plenty of blood sugar supplements out there, but I'm like, well, why aren't we doing a biblical twist? Like, cinnamon's all over the Bible. Cinnamon is amazing at helping to, like, manage healthy blood sugar. Like, let's bring those two together. Like frankincense and myrrh both have all these incredible health benefits. Like, why don't we just so you know, within the copy was not like a guy created a new type of copy that nobody had ever seen before. It was like a standard vsl, but my story was different. And I think that's the biggest way to kind of succeed There. So, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and just put that one as answered and then done. There we go. Okay. Girlen said, stefan, you do a.

Lot. A.

Lot. How do you even remember every little thing that goes on? Have you ever forgotten a project is going on? This question goes out to both Amber and Ed as well. Ed is gone, but, Amber, have you ever forgotten that a project is going.

On? Not a project. I don't forget that a project is going on. I have high anxiety, so I don't ever forget about a project. But I will say that we've taken on too much as a company. It's one of the reasons why we've just been chopping and downsizing. And I felt the need to do that for a long time. And then I lost someone really quickly to me last year to suicide. And it just, like, changed my perspective on everything. And I just stopped, you know, taking on so much. And what I realized is, you know, saying no is such a powerful tool. If it's not a resounding hell yes for me. And I don't really feel excited about the project. I'm just doing it for money. Like, that's how I started doing stuff. And that's okay if you're in that spot, like, yeah, you need to do that. You have to. There's no shortcutting that. Right. It's great to, like, gain experience, but, like, when you have a ton of stuff going on, I think the main thing is, you know, getting really honest with yourself about what you can do and what you can do well. Right. And sorting that out and time. Managing it, however, works for you, but also, you know, giving yourself some grace and space, like, you can always renegotiate stuff. That's one thing that I don't hear a lot of people talking about is the ability to renegotiate what you've agreed to. I think the instinct is when you say yes to something, you have to keep it to that exact thing, exact frame. And that's not necessarily true. People are much more open, and I'm saying this because I'm doing it with experience who are much more open to hearing, hey, you know what? When I said yes to this project, you know, my situation was different. Here's the new thing, and here's when I expect to, like, have it done. And, you know, is that, like, okay, if it's not, like, you know, what else can we do to make you whole? Just kind of renegotiating your agreements is also something that you can do. And I don't recommend it all the time because you do it enough times using an excuse, you're going to break a ton of trust and ruin and wreck your reputation, which is going to take a very long time to do. But, you know, this is something that you can do with honesty and clarity. And I'll tell you, like, taking on too much is not great if you're not good at time management and if you're not established, you can take on more stuff when you're more established. Really, like Stefan, like, I mean, you have ownership in all these different companies, but you are established. You have been the CEO of multiple companies. You. You have a rhythm and a flow. You're. And it's. And it's also like the idea of balance kind of bullshit, right? Because you're not spending in a 24 hour period, 4.5 hours on copy accelerator, 2.2 hours with, you know, Cody. You're. You're balancing it all out in like a harmonious way, right? So you're like right now Copy Accelerators next week, I bet a big bulk of your efforts right now, this week are on Copy Accelerator, right? Like, and just knowing how to kind of navigate that flow. Right. In your personal life too. So that's a long way of saying, you know, just kind of, kind of looking at, you know, like, do you need to take on that.

Much? Yeah. I mean. Or go ahead. Sorry.

Amber. Yeah, no, go ahead, go.

Ahead. I was gonna say, and I think, Justin, I talked about this a little bit yesterday. We did a kind of like an open call and Yeah, I still struggle with that sometimes of looking at being like, have I taken on too much? Are there certain things that I need to pull back on? Or sometimes there's things where even though I have a lot going on, I will kind of neglect certain things and. But it's kind of intentional, right? It's not like I'm not being haphazard. Like, this is just not that important right now. So I'd love to work on this too, but I can't. So it's like, I'll come back to that when I have the time, you know, Going back to like. Yeah. With the Copy Accelerator event next week and all kinds of stuff going on. We just got like this really famous comedian for the VIP dinner for our full Copy Accelerator members. And like they were doing these other things and all this stuff going on. Right. And I'm scram. You know, we're working on all kinds of. How do we make this the best event, you know, virtual event. That's ever been put on. And so even things like being interactive in Facebook groups, I'd like to be more interactive with people tagging me and Justin and stuff and talk copy. I'm trying to read the post, but it's like, I just don't have the time to go in and comment and engage right now. And. And I'm okay with that. And then the other thing I do now at this stage of my life or career is, like, I'm trying to look at things as, you know, where I can be, like, the investor. Right? So, like, for example, I do want to create a whole company around freelancing, but I'm like, I mapped out the whole kind of architecture for that, and I shared it with, like, key people on my team. But I was like, I want to be clear about this. Like, I can't write the copy for it. I can't make a lot of the decisions for it. I'm like, here's, like, the game plan. We need to get the right people in place. And I want to treat this like I am the investor in this company and not like the CEO. And so as you go through time, you can kind of differentiate those things. And I have the money and the capital to be able to do that because of, like, getting to where I've gotten. And I wasn't able to do that earlier in my career. So that then enables me to do more things because I can look at it as the investor instead of as the CEO. But you're trying to be, like, the CEO of five companies or 10 companies. Like, that never works. I mean, you know, there's like, Elon Musk kind of does it, I guess, you know, a little bit, and, like. But there's very few people who can pull that off. So I think focus is a powerful thing early on, and then, yeah, over time, you can kind of branch out a little bit more. So, yeah. All right. Well, hey, I wish we could answer more questions, but we cannot because we're up to 11:33 my time. Amber, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and join. It was so.

Good. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It's epic, as always. Anything to do with you. And thank you for asking me to speak next week. I take it as a tremendous honor because that's what it is. And I was joking about you in my email this morning saying that you have a cult happening with Copy Accelerator. But all jokes aside, it is an honor to be inside of Copy Accelerator for anybody who is a member and it's an honor to present. It's such a high quality group of super beautiful, super smart, super kind, hard working people. The best and the brightest in the space. So I appreciate you having me in front of the group today and just really excited to present next.

Week. Awesome. Yeah, no, I'm so excited. And check out Traffic Tribe. I'll put that in the YouTube description and show notes and that's in the Facebook live of this. I know some people ask how they get on your email list, Amber, I don't know if that's from your website as well or what the best.

Way. Yeah, I can shoot it over to you for the show notes if they want to get on my.

Email. That sounds good. Yeah, you should do that for sure. And yeah, for everyone. A lot of people on this call will be at the event next week, so looking forward to seeing everybody and yeah, Amber, thank you so much. Well, and I'm hitch up about this dinner with Kutasi. I'll text, I'll do a text, group text or something. Maybe it's the best way to do.

It. I love.

That. All right, awesome. Thank you.

Amber. Thank.

You.