[RTB:E23] Increase Email Open Rates, Build Email Lists Organically - The Road to a Billion Podcast

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host Stefan Georgi and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money and more. The reason for the name the Road to a Billion is because I am going to be hitting close to a billion dollars in sales this year through my copy. I may have already hit it. I honestly haven't tabulated in a while, but also because I want to make a direct impact in the lives of billion people over the next 10 years. Whether that is emotional, mental, spiritual, financial, all those different things. And I'm actually gonna talk a little bit more about that before we take calls. But speaking of taking calls, we are going to start taking calls in about five minutes from now. And the way that's going to work is that you're going to put your questions into the Q and A section in Zoom here and then my good friend Mr. Ed Ray is going to be reviewing those questions and he'll read out a summary, put you on to answer them live. And then you'll be able to ask the question and we'll chat and kind of work through whatever you got going on. And I'll help to the best of my abilities. I'm obviously not so arrogant as to think I can solve everybody's problems, but I can hopefully help. Ed, do you want to go ahead and say hi to everybody here and introduce yourself?

Hey everyone, my name's Ed ray. I'm a 20 year old copywriter marketer and I specialize in Facebook copywriting and some of the more sophisticated marketing for helping 8, 9 figure brands scale on Facebook without getting shut down or banned or worrying about getting the ban hammer. So that's what I do.

Yeah, Lauren needs to talk to you. Share her Facebook ad account go down.

Actually I saw that on Instagram and I was like, she knows my number. She knows, she knows, she knows who I am. You know, she'll, she'll reach out when she's ready.

Yeah, yeah, she'll, she's, she's working on it. But just funny, she had one of her most profitable days yesterday. Cause she like basically just got a bunch of organic sales and she, it was, it was kind of a funny thing where like even though her ad account went down, she was really profitable. But we'll talk about that later too. So anyway, like I said, if you're on the Zoom call. And you want me to answer your question? Gonna pop it in the Q and A. And we'll get to the questions in about five minutes from now. A lot faster today because we don't have a special guest, but hello, everyone watching on Facebook Live as well. We've got about seven people, which I feel good. I was worried with not having a guest, maybe nobody will want to come hang out, but there are still some people on Facebook Live and I love you all as well. Now, before we start, what I used to do when I was doing the solo more was an opening kind of monologue and I was debating if I wanted to do it or not. But I do have a cool framework that I'm going to share. This is something I've been thinking about and it kind of comes back to my why. I talked about this a little bit at the free Mastermind I did in San Diego last Friday, which was a blast, by the way. We had like 60 plus people, ended up moving it to like a Hilton right by my office so we could do it more safely and had a bunch of amazing presentations. So it was really, really badass. So if you, if you were there, then you've heard me talk about this, but indulge me for a minute because I think it's pretty cool. So basically the day before that, Brooks Briz was out with me and we were talking about my personal brand stuff and the publishing and the RNBC method and a lot of plans there that I had. And Jude Charles was there filming and Jude Charles kind of Brooks and I were talking about some of our, like, the financial goals. And Jude's like, yeah, but like, why are you doing that? And it was like, well, you know, because we're going to do this and this. Yeah, but like, what's your what's your. What's your why? And I'm like, I talk about my why all the time. He's like, all right, like, what is it for? You know, what you do? And I was like, oh, crap. And I kind of like, basically organically, like I knew already. My why, and I've said this before, is to help people to challenge the status quo and help people to find a better way. And the reason that that's important to me is because when I was going from job to job that I hated and you know, doing door to door sales or phone, like calling in a call center for, for profit college and depressed and all these, I always just felt like there had to be a better way in my life, a better, more opportunities Ways for me to have more freedom and feel more fulfilled. And then I met Laura at a poker table, and suddenly it was as if, you know, the wool was. Was lifted from my eyes. And so then, because I've had that transformative experience, and now today in my life, I'm in such a blessed and kind of amazing position and place in my life, I want to help others to experience it too, because I've just the level of confidence and happiness and just joy that I feel almost every day compared to what I felt when I was working in a job I hated and feeling like I just didn't have any. Any path forward in my life. It's like night and day, and it's like I'm. And then it gives me the opportunity to do so many cool things and to really do what I think I was put on the surf to do. So the reason I'm bringing all this up too is because as I talked about my. Why, one of the things that I brought this up before, but the was. Was thinking about Plato's allegory of the cave. So if you don't know the allegory of the cave, essentially it's like a thought experiment that Plato did, Plato being a Greek philosopher from a couple hundred years before Jesus, and he talked about like, okay, imagine there's like a cave and you've got a bunch of people kind of chained to the, like, chained in place, and they're side by side and they're staring forward at the wall of a cave, and behind them there's like a fire going. And there's these sadistic torturers who are making shadow, like puppets and shadow figures, basically. So, you know, the reflection, the shadows from the fire are being cast onto the wall. So the people. If you're in the cave and you're a prisoner in this cave, you're staring straight ahead and all you can see is the shadows. And if you were born in the cave and raised in the cave and that's all you've ever known, then you don't realize that those shadows are nothing but shadows and that there's. It's a farce, right? You don't know that. And it's only by having your eyes opened and realizing that you're in the cave that you can then potentially do something about it. So. So the way I think about this is for a lot of people out there, if you're on this call, there's three steps. Basically, I want to help people to escape the cave. That's my why, right? But the first step is realizing that you're in a cave. Because if you don't know you're in the cave, then you're not going to take any action to remove yourself from it. So the first step is realization. You can think of a flashlight. If I shine the flashlight and you're like, oh, my goodness, I'm in a cave, right? That's step one. So that can be like. For me, it was meeting Laura at a poker table in Las Vegas and hearing about copywriting. And then it was me going to work to make $200 a day in the hot Florida sun, which was not bad money, but I still hated it. And coming home and she was in underwear, drinking a beer, and she made $1,000 in the same day. And then I'm realizing I need to do that. Like, why? I'm like, I'm in the cave, right? So realization, like discovering the world of Internet marketing, copywriting, freelancing, offer ownership, all that kind of stuff, right? So the first step is realization we need to help people to realize that they're in the cave. That's part of why the free content I do a lot of it is for that. I'm doing it also as a way to help people. And I'll get to that in a second. But it's also the belief, the realization, hey, you're in a cave, right? The next step is extraction. Because once you realize you're in the cave, hopefully you're like, I want to get out of the cave. Some people aren't going to be like that. There's a guy in the Matrix, right, who's like, I know this steak isn't real, but I don't care. I'm going to eat the steak anyway. So there's people who are going to be like, yeah, that's great. I'm good in the cave. And God bless them, can't do anything about them. But if you realize you're in the cave and you want a better life and you want more opportunities, and then we need to extract you from the cave, and those are where we need tools. And you can think of a rope for this. So we had a flashlight for realization and we have a rope for extraction. The rope is like, you know, you can. You can follow the rope out of the cave. So someone goes caving, they have a rope, and they go deep into the cave, and then they follow the rope to come back out of the cave. Similar concept. So how do you. How do we extract people from the case? Well, for me, it's a lot of stuff. I mean, RNBC method, right? As a course is a way to do that. Because it's a tool, just like the rope is a tool that helps you to write better copy, get more, charge more, and grow in your career. Freelancer freedom, even though I haven't really promoted that a lot, is a tool. It helps you to make more money as a freelancer. Road to a Billion is also a tool. It's a combination of a flashlight and the rope. Because it's like, how do you. I'm giving people actionable stuff that can help them to extract themselves from the cave. So we had realization, which was a flashlight with extraction, which was a rope. And then the last part or the last phase is optimization. Because once you finally do get out of the cave and you're making $10,000 a month or your business is taking off or whatever it is, and you get out of the cave and you step into the bright sun and you're blinded by all of the possibilities and freedom. It's really easy to screw stuff up. So you see this all the time. People start making a lot of money and develop a substance abuse problem, or they cheat on their spouse, or their relationships crumble even if they didn't cheat, or they let their health go and they get really fat. All these different things happen, right? Because suddenly, when confronted with this staggering amount of freedom for the first time, we often don't optimize our lives. At that point, we sort of get lost, right? And then we either go back into the cave or we sort of flounder around at the mouth of the cave. And we never go out and adventure and reach our full potential. And so the last part with optimization, I like to think of a compass and like your true north. So even once you're out of the cave, where's the compass pointing? How do you keep your compass pointed towards your true north so that you're able to accomplish the things you want to do? And then there's different things to optimize, right? There's financial stuff, but there's also relationships. There's like mindset, there's spiritual. If you're into spirituality, there's a lot of different factors. But I want to share all this because I really like the framework, right? Realization, extraction, optimization. And again, that ties into the flashlight, the rope and the compass. And I really love this framework as explaining what I'm doing. Because even when you come to content, there's basically just two pieces of content I realize that I'm creating. There's belief oriented content and there's tool oriented content. So belief content is like, hey, you can escape the cave. You know, you can. And then even, hey, you can optimize your life. It's changing someone's belief. Who thinks that they can't change something that is belief oriented content. So that could be an email. I write a YouTube video, this talk right now, whatever it is. And there's like tools, there's tool oriented content, which is again, RNBC method, paid stuff I'm doing, free trainings, I'm doing. And so. But both of those things, like now I can realize like, where. What stage is a person I'm talking to in and what do they need? Do I need to address their beliefs or do I need to give them a tool? And so that's it. But I just want to share. I really like the framework. I saw the chat going a lot, but a lot of it was probably just people talking to Lootfi about stuff. And yeah, I'm curious. Yeah, the Big Leap. Someone mentioned the Big Leap already, which is a really good, really good book. Someone else mentioned, by the way too, when I shared this at my talk. They're like, maybe it was you, Michael. I can't remember if it was you or someone else, Michael McGovern. But they basically said how when at the end of Plato's algorithmic cave, the person who comes out of the cave goes back in to tell everybody else that they're in the cave and then they beat him to death. Which is like amazing though, because I think of that from a perspective of even like, you know, quote unquote gurus. Right? And I think there are totally BS gurus out there. But it is also hard to put yourself out there and to be like, trying to bring people like any leader, I think any leader, you don't have to be a guru. It can be a leader, right? People who put themselves out there and try to bring people out of the cave, like, you're gonna re. You're gonna encounter resistance and hate and violence and all these things. So that's kind of an interesting point to it as well. But yeah, Plato's allegory of the cave. And that explains my why. With that, we'll start questions in just a minute, but my good friend Ed Ray, do you have any thoughts on my philosophical opening today before we do that?

Yes, sir, you're totally right. And about everybody who has a voice and uses their voice, they get challenged by the people around them, even those who love them and want what's best for them, because it's scary to go outside the cave, right? It's. It's scary to even suggest that there is an outside of the cave for a lot of people. And like you said, I love the eating the steak metaphor, like the Matrix. That's so true.

Yeah.

And some people just want to bury their head in the sand and just live like that. And, like, that's okay, you know? But I think one thing I've learned over the years is, like, if somebody wants to bury their head in the sand, you can't. You can't help them. You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped or is trying to help themselves. And be careful. Because there are some people who say they want help, but look at their actions. It's like, you give them advice, you give them suggestions, you tell them how to solve whatever problem they're going through, and they never do anything with it. Like, my older brother, he would always complain about being in a bad mood all the time. And for two years, you know, I told him all the time exactly what to do, because he'd always. He'd always ask me that. And then he's like, literally complaining all the time about issues, and I'm like, okay, do this, do this, do this, do this. Never does anything. And then he even asked me for help. He's like, ed, can you help me with this? Do you have any suggestions for me? And I'm like, no, not anymore. You don't do shit. Not helping. You Happy to be your brother, but I'm not helping anymore. Unless you want to pay me $1,500 an hour for consulting. You're on your own, buddy. Because, like, people just don't value it, usually. And they don't want to escape what they're stuck with, because it's oftentimes more comfortable to be where they are, because that's what they know the pain is what they know.

They.

They know what it's like to feel painful. But to be happy, to be successful, to be motivated. That's a whole scary world for a lot of people because there's a lot of mental BS programming that they've had and given themselves and beliefs that they've adopted where it's more comfortable to have failure. It's more comfortable to lose. It's more comfortable to stay where they are than it is to change the reality and to get better and to do more. Because a lot of people, they don't realize that they've created this world for themselves, and they're stuck in it. And Instead of taking the response, instead of taking the responsibility of their own life, instead of taking the responsibility that they can change their own reality, they would rather blame it on other people. The government, the election, the economy, their job, rather than take responsibility for their own situation because it's easier. So they'd rather hide and blame everybody else and not take responsibility for their own actions. So, yeah, that was a little tangent for you, dude.

That was amazing. I mean, that was, like, I was not even expecting after my. My cave kind of model. I didn't. I didn't know you're gonna go that deep with it, but I love it.

Uh, I can go further if you. If you'd like.

But Carolyn Grant, I love what she said, too. Cause she said people think they want help, but they just want validation for their remaining stock. And I think that's really true about some people. And I think, you know, like, even think loot feed said, like, what if they're scared? And it's like. And I get that. I do. But I think the thing I've looked at personally, I'd be curious if you agree at is, you know, again, we want to help to change their belief. We want to guide them. We want to give them the push and all that. But the end of the day, going back to the cave analogy is if I can. If there's 11 people in the cave, and I picked 11, let's go with that. And, like, you know, nine of them are completely on board, and I can take them out of the cave and bring them to, like, the fresh air and sunshine. And two of them, you know, are like, no, I don't want to go. Then is it fair to the other nine people? Is it fair to the nine people to like, to kind of like, hey, you guys got to, you know, wait over here. I got to try and work with these two.

Or.

And what has more impact, right? Does that have more impact to really just keep trying to push and pull and debate and argue with those two people who are like, nah, I'm good here. Or does that more impact to take the nine people who want to get out of the cave and help them actually get out of the cave? Right. That's the impact. And then, you know, maybe out of those two, to your point, too, Ed is like, one of them is maybe one's, like, really stubborn, but one's like, yeah, I'm on board. But then they keep kind of stopping and sitting down and making wrong turns and turning back and complaining that the walk out of the cave is long. And hard. And even in there you're like, look man, I gotta leave you, you know, sorry, go back, go back to the wall. Because like, I don't want you to die in this cave, but I also can't be responsible for you anymore. I've got nine other people who are really trying to get out. So. Yeah, I don't know, I just, I just, I love, I love that you can play with the, the allegory and the metaphor so much. But I really love your insights as well, Ed.

Thanks man. I appreciate that, that the, the one person who's like on the fence about leaving. The sad part is that's most people. Like I know like you said, majority of people are wanting to leave and in our community that is the case. But in actuality I'd say 90, like, let's say like 90% of people are the person who just don't want to change. And then 9% of people are that guy who's on the fence. And that's quite a few people I think in our industry. And then 1% of people in the world are the people who want to actually change and they want to get out of the cave.

Yeah, I know, I hate generalizations like that because I'm such an optimist that I just want to believe that more people over time maybe with belief oriented stuff, you know. But I am always amazed. I mean if you look at and we'll start answering questions in just one minute, I do want to get to a lot of questions here. Even going back to like quote unquote gurus and stuff. I feel like I'm always amazed at how many people follow them and people who are very like, you know, once a guru gets a lot of reach, it's like just very everyday people who are working 9 to 5 job who see their videos and then ultimately they get so swept up in the idea of making a huge change in their life that they give this guru a bunch of money. And then sometimes it's amazing and sometimes it's disappointing. Right. And hence why people I think have such a visceral hatred towards gurus who don't deliver on their promises. But I mean, there is a lot of reach. I just think there's a lot of people. I think it's more than that. I think a lot of people do truly fundamentally want to change their lives. I think they just don't know how. They don't, like some of them don't have the belief, but a lot of them also don't have the tools and I think we have to separate those two things because like, some of them, I think the ones who just don't believe it's possible, like, we can do what we can try and you know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Like I've had people with RNBC or everything say, you really changed my mind or my beliefs about what's possible, or expand my mind. There's other people who aren't going to feel that way. And if I show myself doing something like kind of successful, right? If I'm in like a nice house or a nice car and they're like, just immediately like f you, you know, oh, that must be nice. And like those who are like, alright, I can't do anything about those people, but some of them too, they just really need the tools. And if they don't have the tool set, then it's like no matter how great the belief is, they just don't. It's like you're sitting there and staring at the ground and being like, I believe that a hole will appear. And so you can sit there staring and believing a hole will appear. Maybe once every, you know, trillion times, the sinkhole starts to open up, but for the most part nothing's going to happen. But then like, hey, here's a shovel. You're like, okay, now you can actually start digging. And then if I'm like, hey, here's an excavator and you can, you know, really dig, you know, then, then everything changes for them in a hurry. So that's something I think about as well.

That's a really good point. I agree with that actually.

Awesome.

I'm glad we agreed with that being said, should we, should we turn to Q and A and answer some questions? I think yes, Camille, yes. You need both Belief.

Belief.

Belief and tools. That's absolutely, that's the complete part. You have to have both. If you have the tools, we have no belief, then you're probably not going to do anything with the tools, right? Because you're just gonna be like, why would you? If you don't believe that the tools are leading to a better outcome, then you have no motivation to use them. And conversely, if you have the belief but no tools, then you just feel frustrated and stuck and anxious. That's why I really, in a way, this epitomizes why I'm such a big fan of mindset. Cause I realized after a while it's like, you can give people all the tools in the road, but if they don't have the right belief system and the Right. Frameworks. Mentally, then they're not gonna do anything with them. So you have to have both.

Exactly. And just. Just like in sales and in copywriting, you have to sell the prospect on whatever is you're selling them on. You also have to sell yourself on it too. So like Stefan said with the shovel, you know, that's a tool. And someone. Someone with lack of self belief can go, I know that shovels work for people. They can work for other people. But I'm not strong, you know, I'm not a physical person. I don't like getting my hands dirty. You know, even if I did dig, I couldn't dig that deep. And there's all these lack of self belief and issues that you do have to overcome as well. And by. Someone could have the right tools and they could be the perfect person to do something, but if they don't have the right mentality around it, they're not going to achieve it. They're going to shoot themselves in the foot and talk themselves out of it every single time through direct self talk or self sabotage. Subconsciously.

Yeah, 100%. It's a great point, Ed.

We should. We should do like a mind mindset Monday. Like call or something like that. Like that talk about this stuff. That'd be sick.

I love it. Yeah, I love this stuff. And I'm definitely going to write more about it and create a whole. Maybe I kind of created the framework, but. But we'd love to talk more with folks about it. But I'm sure we'll get into some mindset questions today in the Q and A so that let's transition into answering some questions.

Let's do it, baby. First up, we got Michael Rosheen. Oh, I need co host Stefan.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Girlen better not be on this call because she's gonna start yelling at me right away for this.

No, I don't think she is. No, she's not. Didn't want to anyway. Didn't want to hear anyway. Whatever.

Luffy. This is episode 22. Wow. Yeah. Celebrating the 22nd time I've forgotten to make Ed co host episode 22 of the Road to a Billion.

All right, so we got a question here from Michael Roshin about author creation.

Let's go.

Michael. What's up, buddy?

Yo. Wait, can you hear me?

Can hear you?

Yes, sir.

All right, so, yeah, I want to get into offer creation pretty soon. I already have the. I'm working with the physical therapist. We already have what we want to do.

Hey, Michael. So real quick because it is a little quiet. Are you able to jump the. Yeah. Is this better? Oh, yeah.

All right, Turn up, Turn it up with Michael Roshin. Turn it up, turn it up.

Oh, that's. I gotta do that podcast and use that as an intro. Um, and then I'll give up after like a second week.

Bye, baby.

Sorry. Okay, so I have an offer creation.

I want to do.

I already have the physical therapist that's gonna do it with me. So I try to do like the sales letter and all that. What are the next steps? So let's say I build the product and I want to first off test if it's even awesome. So like, I don't know if you can walk me through it like a brand new person creating an offer. Because that's what I am.

Yeah. And it's an info product, right?

Info product, yeah.

Okay, cool. So you are partnering with a physical therapist, you've got the offer being created and you're writing the copy for it, right?

Correct.

Okay, cool. So I mean, I guess one question would be like, where are you going to like host it? Right. Are you going to put it up on clickbank? Are you going to do a custom funnel? Is it going to be like a book or is it going to be like video modules? What is the actual product going to look like?

It's going to be video modules like this, like two videos. Because it's going to be one video on how to fix their back pain issue. And then after that I want, I want an upsell to be like how to now stay in that spot. Like had to not like mess it up again.

Got you. Okay. So yeah, I mean, looking at where you're gonna like host that video, I mean it can be as simple as an unlisted video on YouTube. Although I don't like that for like a course like this. Cause I think people will probably find it and rip it off and stuff. Yeah. You know, but you know, do you need like a kajabi? Can you use click funnels? There's a new kind of like frame system called groove funnels that Mike Filsane made that I'm playing with on my end. But I would, I mean, figuring out, you know, it's probably easiest for you if you can use like a, like a done for you sort of funnel system versus going custom. Because like you've got to basically create like the whole front end funnel, so the design, the dev and integrations and then you have to have the fulfillment of the product like the back end which is like once somebody do they get a login, they log in, all that kind of stuff. So like, that's really like, you know, your next step is on that side. I mean, you can throw money at it and you can go hire somebody. Like my guy Hussein sure could build that whole thing for you for like five to $8,000, which is not cheap. But probably for testing it out again, I would probably just use something like clickfunnels or an alternative type to clickfunnels and just build my own funnel that way. And if anything, you probably hire somebody on upwork or somewhere in our space to help build the funnel on ClickFunnels for a pretty light amount. And then I would ultimately not stay on clickfunnels because their load times suck and all that. I mean, you can also use Funnel Connect from Connective, but basically that's kind of the big thing. Well, the other thing was like the merchant processing. How are you gonna accept payments? Right? Something like this, like an info product about how to help with back pain. Then you can probably get away with Stripe and PayPal, but I still may look at having a backup. ClickBank's not a bad option either. I mean, they have processing, they have stuff like that. So anyone after that, it's just getting people like testing from testing it. If you can just run, you know, some Facebook traffic to him, you've got a great network of people from Copy Accelerator, since you're in Copy Accelerator. So, you know, talking to some people could help you, like, buy a little media on Facebook or YouTube or whatever, run some traffic to it and test it out that way.

Yeah, that was my big. I think that's my biggest question right now is like the testing part. So how do you even know? Like, because I don't know, like, I'm a perfectionist. So I want to, like, I don't want to launch anything until it's like absolutely perfect. I know it's a really bad mindset. I'm trying to get over it and just like put something out there and see like if people love it. So I was like wondering, like, how do we know if it's. If it's like going to be a hit? Like, do we just throw a couple hundred bucks that Facebook ads and see if people even click on the ad or.

Yeah, no, I mean, you can do that. You can do a couple, you know, if you get some friends to send an email. I mean, I just leverage my network. Like I said, though, I really think, like, and there is a market for the product Christian Emily Lark has like a 10 million plus per year and she's doing over a thousand sales a day for Back to Life, which is how to get rid of lower back pain. So there definitely is a market. But yeah, I mean, I would just leverage my network, dude. I would just talk, like, talk to people. Jason Wojo, like Troy's roommate, does stuff on Facebook and YouTube. Talk to Mike Blanco. People always say, test an Emojrop. I personally never. I haven't paid for an emojrop in like 5 years. I personally think it's a stupid model. I'm not even, I'm not being mean. I just like don't like it because it's like a bunch of like, you know, it's pricey, it's a bunch of lists are getting sent promos constantly. It's usually like, you know, Bob's conservative, like gun owner lists where unless you're sort of like, you know, Joe Biden, like, wants to destroy America and you're back, you know, type of email, like, maybe it'll work then. But you know, usually you don't get an roi. Just personally don't. I think that that model is not. I don't like it, especially if you have a network because people are like, oh, well, if you get other people to send for your offer and it doesn't do well, like, then you burn that bridge. That's bullshit. You come to me and you're like, hey, dude, like we're friends. Can you send some traffic to this? Here's a creative. I'll be like, sure. And if it doesn't do well, I'll be like, oh, bummer. Let me know next time you've got, you know, you've reworked it and we'll try again. Right? So if you go to like a random, like you go to Mike Geary or BioTrust and you like beg them and convince them to send and it doesn't do well and you don't have a really good relationship with those guys, then yeah, like at that point, you know, that's a bad idea. But if you've got like good friends that you do in this relationship, asking them like, hey, can you just send a little traffic to this? I'm really curious how it's going to go. Would mean the world to me. Like, people will just do that for you.

Wow, that's incredible. So this takes me to my last question about this.

Is there like.

And it's like a blanket. So if you can't answer this, it's totally fine. Just is there like A minimum amount of cash money you should have saved up before you even, like, try to do any of this.

I don't think you need a lot for what you're doing. I mean, a lot of people. Because again, all you have to do is build the funnel, make sure you can fulfill, and then, you know, pay like a light, like a small cpa, you know, at the start, and then tell people, you know, you'll definitely raise it after you get some data. I really don't. I mean, if you want to hire somebody else to build out the funnel for you, then, like a couple thousand bucks for that. Um, but that's about it. I mean, I really especially. Cause it's like an info product. I don't think you really need much more than that.

That's awesome. How are you. How. Maybe I missed this. How are you planning on running traffic to this?

That was like, my biggest question with Stefan. He just answered a lot for me right now.

Yeah.

So that was my biggest hurdle. So Stefan answered that with, like, the email. Not email drops, but like YouTube ads and Facebook ads at first.

Okay, got it.

You got something else to recommend?

I definitely do. I definitely do. Even though I am apparently that according to Jazz Courtney in the comments, the Facebook overlord. I like that name. I actually, really, really believe in organic strategy, like, organic Facebook, like, for example, because of how much I built up my personal brand. And I haven't shared this publicly before with you guys, so if you guys could keep this a secret, I appreciate that. So because of how much I built up my personal brand, when I posted on Facebook with two Facebook posts in two days, I filled up my email list with 200 plus people.

Oh, shoot.

Most people, that takes a few weeks, months to get that to that part if they're starting from scratch. So it depends on the personal brand and how much you want to do with your. Your influencer guru, whatever you want to call them. But I definitely recommend either doing, like, picking one platform. I love Facebook. Like, I love Facebook groups. They're so easy to get into and just like, get a bunch of people through there. Reddit, Quora, Instagram is also really good. Like, there's all sorts of different places to attract your ideal audience wherever they're hanging out and get them to opt into your email list eventually. Like, I stopped posting on Facebook as much, but I got all of my leads through posting in Facebook groups and on my personal timeline and then eventually moving them over to an email list costs $0. So if you really want to be lean and mean, and hyper profitable, especially if you want to do high ticket too. I definitely recommend if, like, you're just starting out, it's low cost and you. You get. You have a high touch point with your ideal audience. Cause you have a lot more conversations with them than you would normally with Facebook. I saw Stefan unmuted, so go right ahead.

No, I mean, I think that is a good strategy. I feel like, for, like, a back pain product that he wants to, like, take to cold traffic, though. I still think getting people to do some, like, you know, to mail to their list, you know, to get him some data there is gonna be really valuable, I think. I mean, again, I think what you're saying is completely valid and a really good strategy. Um, but for like a.

It's more long term, though.

It takes time to, like. I don't. I don't start things. I'm, like a perfectionist. Like, the more you give me, I'm like. I'm, like, having panic attacks. So whatever I need to get started would be.

Would be awesome.

Yeah. Well, I think. I think. Yeah. I think what we talked about is. I think you're in good shape.

Awesome. Thank you, Stefan and Ed.

Our pleasure. Always good to talk with you.

I miss you.

Miss you. All right, who do we got next?

All right, next up we have laddie boy Andy Jeffs about freelancing jobs.

What's up, Andy Jeffs?

Hey, boys. Calling you from San Diego Airport. Back off to sunny Vegas.

I was super in San Diego this whole time. You've been here since last week.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've been hiding away in my Airbnb, like, plowing away through Freelancer Freedom and a bunch of other stuff. I'm sorry. Yeah, I suck.

Yeah.

So that's. That's the deal. And I'm moving to Austin next week. One of the guys from. Not next week. Two weeks from now. One of the guys who went to the Mastermind has offered me a room. So I'm off to Austin.

Yeah.

Anyway, that was random.

Our little.

Our little Andy bird is spreading his wings and flying.

Oh, yeah.

Yo, you're ditching me, bro. Are you really?

I was. I've been meaning to come back to Vancouver for the past three months, and it just isn't happening. I don't want to look like. Like, it already was so hard getting into America the first time. I don't want to leave now. I'm staying.

So you're gonna marry a girl over there and get your green card, or what's the deal?

I'm gonna find myself a nice Texas woman. Yes, exactly. So, yeah, that's the deal. Nice one, yeah. So I guess my question is, obviously, I just got freelancer freedom. It's awesome, by the way. I've been playing through it, and I think one thing that is just coming to mind is I don't really know what niche I want to work in. I mean, you know, it would be cool if I could find something in, like, the music space that is interesting to me, but I'm not super close minded, you know, I just want to keep on building out my freelance business and keep on working with clients, doing an amazing job, and just creating great relationships while doing things that I'm passionate about. Like, I don't really want to do, like, short term jobs. I want jobs that are going to, you know, have the long term success. Because obviously copywriting, you're talking a lot about specific things, and I want to talk about things that I actually enjoy talking about. So I don't know. What kind of path would you take in terms of finding, like, clients and, you know, projects that you're going to be passionate about?

Well, I mean, let's talk about what you're passionate about. You're passionate about music.

Yeah.

What else are you passionate about?

Traveling, fitness, meeting people.

Obviously.

Copywriting. Yeah, those things.

I mean, fitness is obviously the most lucrative of all of the ones that you just mentioned there. And there's like a no listening for health or for help with fitness types of copy.

Yeah.

I mean, to be completely honest with you, I mean, even Peter Hewlett, I don't know if you saw in the chat, but he's like, you know, I'll introduce you a bunch of people when you're here. DM me. But, like, honestly, there's such a good community in Austin that probably just hanging out with Peter for like a couple of weekends, and you'll have, like as many fitness clients as you want, right? I think so. Who.

Who's the hangout with Peter?

Peter Hewlett. He's a follow up story, my friend.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I mean, it sounds like a really simple answer, but seriously, I mean, because stuff is like, you know, of course it just depends on where you're at. Like, if you, you know, financially, like, you're. Because again, if you're. If you're early on, I always say, like, just make like. Like, I just would. I take on. I would take on all kinds of different, you know, niches, because I want to get exposed to a bunch of stuff, you know, What? I mean, yeah, like, I, you know, like my whole niche is mostly like health supplement stuff, like, you know, for the last several years, and I guess now there's sort of a biz op side of my own products. Although I don't really consider myself biz op at all. But, like, you know, but like, I didn't. I wasn't like, I was always interested in that kind of stuff, but it wasn't like I, you know, I just sort of fell into it and then really liked it. So, like, if I hadn't been exposed to like, that side of things through client work that I never, you know, my life would be really, really different. So I like being open to projects if you're kind of earlier on and then honing in. But if you sort of know, like, you know, that you really like fitness, I think you can do other opportunities if they, if they arise. I don't think you have to limit yourself to one category, but I think fitness is the one with the most need and where there's the biggest, like, market and most opportunity.

Okay, chilling. Yeah, that sounds good. Fitness meeting, public delegate members in Austin.

Beautiful.

Thank you, man.

Of course. All right, awesome, man. Talk soon.

All right, let it go.

Bye.

Bye. Peter Hewlett. I'll be in Austin on the 20th. I'm gonna go. I've got a meeting for copy starter stuff, but then I'm gonna go over to hang out for a while. So let's hang out. Sorry, we got a brain fart for a second here.

Ready for the next one?

Oh, hang on. Ron Lynch. Sorry. That's what I was gonna say. I was trying to. What was I gonna say? Yeah, hang on. Ron Lynch. That night, Friday night, the 20th. So Peter, hit me up. Yeah, let's go ahead. Let's keep it rolling.

All right, next up, we have a question from Psalm about finding high paying clients.

Sweet. What's up, Psalm?

Hey, what's going on?

How you doing? Pretty good.

I didn't know I was gonna get to talk to you guys. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. So I actually had three questions, but my main question, by all means. Yeah, Assuming that. And I wrote. I just assuming that, you know, I'm someone who's worked with a lot of different types of clients and I know that I deserve to be paid that much. Where do I go about finding clients for about 5 to 10,000 per, like, landing page right now? I've been working on the manifestation model, which I'm not sure is sustainable. I mean, it is in some ways, but it's like, I just does seem to attract them to me from nowhere, but I'd like to have more of a consistent kind of, you know, steady flow.

Yeah, absolutely.

Manifestation skills, then I'm pretty much. I'm on the same boat now, but, you know, by. By design, not by hope marketing. Stephanie, you want to go ahead first on this one?

Yeah. I mean, I think that it really comes down to your reputation and your network. I think, you know, if you are at a place where you feel like you've had a lot of wins and you've got a lot of clients, big results, and you can really justify charging, you know, five or $10,000, I think you have to start being comfortable putting yourself out there a little bit more, you know, whether. And again, doing it like in a humble brag type of way and not like a, you know, like kind of like a douchey way, but like, you know, even if you put like, oh, like, boom. So stoked, like, helped XYZ client. Like, they just launched this, you know, told me they were regrow this. Like, I was really scared. But I also knew the project was gonna be good. But you never know. Like, here's like three lessons I learned from that, right? Putting posts like that out there where you're kind of sharing, like, wins you've had for clients, like in Justin stuff and talk copy or other groups or whatever it is, or your personal Facebook page, if you have like, whatever, you know, and then. But provide value while you're doing it. So you're not just sort of like bragging, but instead you're sort of, again, you're providing value. I think that's really helpful. And then I think on the network side, like, you know, being a part of masterminds, I know somebody put like copy Accelerator, which is like traffic.

True.

But it doesn't have to be copy accelerator. I mean, the thing is, like, you know, as you join, if you. If you join masterminds and communities and you talk with people and build relationships that like everyone. It was just at the fight club Mastermind this weekend, and you can't, like, hire me, but like, I mean, you can't. It's like, it's like, I guess you could hire me maybe for a ton of money, but point is, like, I was all these people need copywriters. Like, everyone needs copywriters. It's like, there's just no shortage. And these are all people who are paying, you know, 25, $30,000 a year to be in a mastermind. They had, like, thriving businesses and like, they're all. It's Flight, not Fight Club, but they're all like, you know, a bunch of people looking for copywriters. So every mastermind I've been, even back in the day, like when I stopped my health supplement company and like, kind of went back to doing more freelancing stuff, like just talking, Mastermind friends were like, hiring me left and right. So I really feel like, you know, building a network that way is really valuable. I would really consider it. You know, it doesn't have to be a super high ticket one. But also a lot of those masterminds do have, like, payment plans and you can do a monthly option. I mean, Copy Accelerator does as well. So those are the two biggest things that come to mind for me. And then maybe number three is like just making sure that you do feel like not being afraid to just quote high amounts and not being. If people say no. Being detached from that outcome and doing the math. I guess that's the fourth thing I talk about, doing the math type stuff where you may have heard me talk about that before. Psalm. But basically, when you talk to a client showing them how hiring, you paint the picture of how that can get them a big roi so that they're not thinking about. Because the big thing is not that they're paying you. You're not getting to say yes to giving you money. You're getting them to say yes to investing in their business. And it's a really subtle but very important difference. Right. Like, that's why like, like Steve Gunn, you're on the. Can I say what you're. We're gonna do for Calight if you're still in here, if you're still on the call. If you are, Steve put in chat. If I'm allowed to say it. I'll give him a minute to see if he's on here. Yeah, yeah. So Steve Gunn hit me up. So for Copy Starter Lite, for example, we've been doing something where we've been hiring. We've been going to business owners and saying, hey, give us $15,000. We'll hire 10 writers from Copy Starter Light, pay them $1,500 each, and then Justin and I will pick the top two offers and copy chief them. So you'll get at least two good offers, but you'll have 10 total offers to test. And then we had. We're doing another round right now for Ryan Saplin. We had six people say yeah before. And then Steve Gunn messaged me, I guess, I think over the weekend, and was like, hey, can I really want to do that before the year is over, but I'll put up 30,000. So he's gonna pay 30,000. So we're hire 10 writers at $3,000 each from copy accelerated light. Steve gets 10 offers, and then two of them just now, Copy Chief. So it's fucking awesome that Steve Gunn is doing that. And love you, Steve, but Steve's also doing that not just because he's, like, an amazing guy, but because he expects. Because these are writers who are trained on RNBC method. They're in Copy Accelerator Lite. And Justin, I are gonna look at the copy that he's gonna get a really good roi. So, again, if Steve. Steve, feel free to correct me in the chat. But, yeah, he says I'm in it for the money. Stefan. Yeah, exactly. Steve is one of the coolest dudes I know. He's actually my guest on rnbc. Apply tomorrow. We're breaking down his Tommy Chong offer. But, like, you know, he's not just, like, trying to donate money. He wants an roi, so. But he knows that if he gives, like, for this $30,000, there's a high probability that he'll make back millions of dollars, and so that's why he's doing it. So to him, then he has $30,000 isn't a big deal because of the ROI. Like, it's a big deal. It's still lots of money. But it's like, he knows he'll get an roi. So that's a bunch of stuff. But, Ed, do you want to add from there, or. If I nailed it, you know, that's fine too, obviously.

I mean, you definitely nailed it. But there's always different perspectives too, right? I don't know. I come from a. Like, yours is definitely the shortcut. Yours is the shortcut. If you've got the shortcuts and the connections, and that's definitely good. And I've used that for sure. Actually, one that's putting in the chat is like, I don't remember the last time I had to look for a client. Um, just because of kind of how I set everything up. Um, and I charge $10,000 for a sales letter as of right now. So one of the best things to do. It's not. To me, it's like, yes, like Stefan said, it's not about, like, to me. To me, it's not about, like, finding clients who can. Who will pay you a lot, which, like, yes, that's really important to do that. But you have to also be a person who can get Paid a lot as well. So that comes down to your personal branding. That comes down to how you show up, how you talk with your client, your self belief, your mindset, as well as how you differentiate yourself. I mean, we're in like a really awesome community where it's like, oh, I'm a copywriter and then people will pay you a fuck ton of money. That's amazing. I love that. That's so dope. But like, I'm gonna give a strategy for somebody who maybe doesn't have the, you know, the tools to afford, you know, mastermind or being part of a higher level network, just because this is also another method. So you can do kind of both. So which is starting to differentiate yourself, differentiate yourself from other copywriters and really take yourself out of that mentality of, you know, I'm a quote copywriter. And then having a different Persona or a story or something people know you for, that differentiates you from everybody else. If you look at a lot of the most successful copywriters, they all have very different things that differentiate them. Not just their track record over many, many years, but. But usually though, they'll focus on one specific type of copywriting or they'll focus on stories that they tell about themselves that really make them into a very sought after copywriter. Michael McGovern says Ed positions himself as the sexiest copywriter alive. I cannot take that title. I think it'd have to go to Stefan. But I do my best, so I think it's. Oh, the Chester.

That's what I mean.

I have mine too, but I have a hoodie on, so. So I think it's really important to also find the blue ocean in your industry as well. Like find out what people are not doing, find out what people are not helping with, find out what pain points the audience has that has not really been dealt with and find a way to write your copy around it. Like, I notice a lot of copywriters, they're so good at selling other people's products or services, but when it comes to selling their own thing, they forget all the foundations of what is their audience's problem. Like, for example, I actually I hired somebody to write a sales letter for me and I was so burnt out, I couldn't write a sales letter. I could have whipped it up in a day, but I was like, okay, I'll pay you three grand for this or five grand, whatever it is. But they didn't do their due diligence to be like, hey, you know what, do you have any upsells for this course. And then I say no. And they go, great, I can write and make those for you for one to two grand each. And then they could have also asked, oh, like, I know you're burnt out. How about if, you know, I write you like 5, 10 emails to launch this thing and you know, it's like 1 to 200 bucks per email. They could have taken a 3k deal and turned it into a 6k deal. So maybe it's not about like, you know, having a high paying client who you know will pay you 10 grand. Like, yes, that's important. But it's also knowing how to serve your client by solving more pain points and upselling them on more things during the buying process, which I think a lot of copywriters forget about. The other thing is also gone. Thank you. Yeah, the other thing is, dude, I have. Honestly, I'm thinking of making like a little, A little thing on this because I have a lot of stuff like this that people don't really think about when it comes to copywriting. It's also really fun to talk about. Making money is cool. So another one is not not selling people on piecemeal, but selling on campaigns. So for example, you wouldn't want to be like, okay, you know, here is like you go to a client, how many emails do you want? Because then you become an order taker, not an expert. Instead you go, hey, you know what, you're launching this promotion. I Recommend, you know, 10 emails here as like the, or maybe like 5 emails as like the pre launch to get them excited about the idea of it shifts and beliefs. And then we have the launch, you know, two emails a day for a week or something like that. And then on the very last day, let's, you know, three to seven emails. So instead of getting paid for five emails, you get paid like, you know, so let's say you're charging 200 bucks per email. Instead of getting a thousand bucks for five emails, you're getting three to five grand for an entire sequence. And that not only makes you a lot more money and positions you better, it gets your client way more results because you've orchestrated the campaign for them. So there's my rant.

No, that's a really good rant. You know, like before. Go ahead, son.

Sorry, before. No, that's awesome. I love that. I've had to be. I've been doing that for forever with the. But not at those price points. And I was doing hourly forever.

Which don't do hourly. Never do hourly.

No, no.

Yeah. No, I've had. And I had a call recently with a potential client, and actually someone recently said to me, hey, if you have a hundred percent close rate, which I do, you're. You're too cheap. You're too cheap.

That's true.

And I was like, okay, they're like, if 50% of the people you have on a call you get have a call with are. Are hell yes to you, I mean, then you're doing great. At a higher price point, then you're doing great. But if they're not, and if it's lower than that, obviously you're maybe charging too much. But if it's. Yeah, if you have a hundred percent close rate, you're too cheap.

I'm like, okay, that's so true. Stephen. Oh, man. Stephen Butler's in. He's saying he'll reach out to me for sure. That's actually so funny. I haven't had anybody say no to my 1500 an hour price point for compliance consulting. So I think I got a up.

It's a 2k I do really like, because, yeah, Laurie used to be really good doing those upsells and things like that. And to your point, like, it's funny, I totally forgot about that. But that's such a good strategy. But also the Blue Ocean stuff too. I mean, like, one of the reasons it's easy for me to command such high fees is when people are like, who is the best person in the world at writing the sales letter for like, a health supplement or like a new health offer? And it's like, my name is always one of the three names that comes up and then they reach out to me and then I'm like, yeah, really good at it. So it's like, you know, you like, you, you targeted compliance. But who's the best at writing copy? For going back to Manifestation, like the manifestation sort of like that space. And it's like, well, Alex Cotone is one of the absolute best. Like, there's a person who comes up. So, like, if you can be that person or in that conversation for, you know, a niche within the marketplace, it just makes it a lot easier to charge higher fees. Because now you're not another copywriter. You're the expert at the go to person at this. And it just makes charging way better.

Ed, you'd kind of mentioned personal branding, and I wanted to know because I've been waffling about whether I should invest in that. I don't know, is it, is it really worth it? I mean, to go all out for like an $8,000 website redesign and get my, you know, my personal niche is. Is health coaches right now. But I also, I do work with like Eckhart Tolle was one of my clients. I have like Lisa Nichols, a lot of like personal development people. So I mean, I could. And that's how my copy right now on my website is sort of geared toward health coaches and toward conscious entrepreneurs. How specific do you want to be, number one? And then how important is the personal branding? Is that like, is that really something we should invest in?

So two things. One, you don't need a website to be. To have a personal brand. That's a fallacy. Personal branding at the end of the day is just how you show up in the eyes of your audience. That's it. It's just how you talk about yourself and how you position yourself. I guess better than personal branding is more positioning is a better way to look at it. Like Stefan said, he's positioned himself as, you know, the mentor to copywriters. He's positioned himself as the almost billion dollar copywriter. He's positioned himself as the owner of Copy Accelerator, co owner of Copy Accelerator, which is like the most prestigious copywriting and marketing mastermind in the world right now. And he's positioned himself as somebody who dominates supplement Health Copy. It's like he, like he has a website. Sure, but you don't need a website to change the perception of your audience and how people respond to you.

Also, a couple more thoughts and I think, but you can have a website, but you don't have to pay 8,000. I mean, I mean like, like you can build it on WordPress for free or I pay someone 500 bucks or something. I have a basic website, but be like 8,000 is outrageous. Like, I don't like feel like I paid a couple grand for my website.

I don't even have a website.

I know you don't, but. Yeah, but I think, okay, so. But I'm. Let me tell you, I mean. Cause I have my list. Like, how did you. Like, where did you hear about me? And it's yo. So I look at it every single day and I talk about all the time. I totally like don't approve people who don't give me good answers. But it's like I do get website a good amount, but it's not, it's not organic SEO. It's because they heard about me on a podcast or something like that. Or somebody mentioned me and they went to my website and then they opted into my list really for me it is like people join the Justin7Talk Copy Facebook group because now after a couple thousand people in it, we're like, oh, we should probably tell people when they join to opt into our list. YouTube actually gets me a lot of people. And YouTube's free if you're comfortable putting yourself out there and doing videos. I get opt ins every single day to my list from YouTube. Instagram. I actually get opt ins pretty much every day from Instagram. And then it's like word of mouth referral. It's like people talking about me in different places. Probably like at least 50% of my list is just word of mouth and referral for sure still. But the website itself, organically following me on my website isn't a lot. So guest podcasts are good. I get a lot of people from guest podcasts. So those are kind of things that for me are working the best. Like LinkedIn. I hardly get anybody, which is why I'm kind of like telling my team like we should maybe should pull back on LinkedIn a little bit. But yeah, I don't know, maybe that's helpful. Psalm, I think we have a lot of questions. I think I'm gonna cut it on there.

Cool, thank you.

Thank you.

Awesome. I see a lot of people saying that they found me on YouTube. Someone said, I wonder how many people all the coffee stuff added to the list. A good amount added. A lot of people opt in that day. Just cool. And then Justin stuff and talk copy because he linked to the post. So that added like a ton of people to Justin stuff and talk copy. Anyway, Ed, who do we got next?

So next up we got Clint about time management and energy management.

Sweet. What's up? Clinton, You there?

Can you guys hear me?

Yeah, can hear you.

There we go.

Yeah.

So it's 3am in the morning here in the Philippines and I'm from RNBC as well. And not much of my question is really about copy, but more about how do you manage your time and your energy that you don't spend so that you're really optimal in your performance as a copywriter. So for example, you know you have different kinds of creatives to work on. You know, you're working on emails and landing pages. So you know one of the biggest fascinations that you know that one of the biggest things that I got fascinated when about you, Stefan, was that you're writing a crazy amount of sales letters. And I think it was on different niches as well. And just imagine how much research and time that from you. So my question is like what would you be advised to be very productive and you know, becoming a copywriter, becoming more effective and like managing your time in your day and basically how that looks like and you know, what worked for you that you didn't get to burn out? Were you like pulling on all nighters or do you really like having morning writing copy in the morning or in the afternoon, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. When I was writing a prolific amount, like 12 sales letters a week or so. Week, not quite a month. I. Yeah, I was like writing all day every day and doing that. It got really easy. It was like flexing a muscle. Cause like I was doing it so much that I got into like a rhythm with it and. But it was also like literally the only thing that I had to like do right. Like today I can still do 12 sales. There's a month if I like one. I don't want to, but I could, but I would have to cut everything else out. So that's sort of number one. You know, then I mean, RNBC really does help and as you practice it and get better. But again, if you're writing every day and you're doing like letter after letter, it really helps. I hope too that even though they were different like niches, it was generally still the same demographic for the most part. It was like generally still like older conservatives. So yeah, I would still research like their specific pain points and other products. But it wasn't like entirely different like you know, kind of category where I went from writing to like 65 year old conservative men to suddenly writing to like 20 year old like Instagram, like woman on Instagram. You know what I mean? Because that would be a big switch kind of. So that made a difference. And then I mean, to what I do today, you know, again, I write like last. I still write every day. I worked on a sales letter for like two hours this morning from like six to eight. So I like waking up early. So for me, like what I've been doing, you know, recently is I wake up at like 5, 5:30. I like waking up even earlier. It just, just depends, whatever I guess, but. And then I'll have coffee. But like within the first five to ten minutes of being in my home office, I will start working on whatever sales letter is I'm working on. And I'm really, I think it's really important to do that right away because the trap is that you come into your office and you're like, all right, but I'm still groggy, so let me just go On Facebook, Let me just read the paper. Everything's. I do. Let me check Wall Street Journal. Like, let me just do this. And then suddenly it's like, 20 minutes later, and, like, your mental discipline's already starting to wane. And then, like, you know, 45 minutes in, and now you're answering threads, and now you feel kind of distracted and. Because literally, Facebook gives you dopamine hits to your brain, so it's like, you know, like, it's like smoking a bunch of cigarettes or something. You know what I mean? It's like you're gonna start feeling all disjointed. So. And then I found for me personally, that by doing that, like, even today, I'm working on an offer for some people, and I, like. I like, I found some really interesting stuff. Like, the mechanism. It's, like, fascinating. I'm, like, so into it, and I. When Laura woke up, I, like, told her all this stuff about the mag. I was so excited that. But, like, I was, like, bummed to stop. But I was like, I would rather stop when I feel bummed that I'm stopping, because then, like, I'm already so excited that tomorrow morning I get to go back to it, and I can really dial this in. And so even just only working, like, two hours a day on the letter, it's like, this week, I just really focus on this week. I got research done, mechanism done, and, like, part of the brief done. And it's just been, like, two hours every morning. And then, you know, probably tomorrow, I'm going to basically finish the brief, and then I'll probably start writing copy maybe over the weekend, just for in the morning before my family wakes up, because, like, I might. Because I'm kind of excited to write it. But again, I think it's better than if you feel like the whole day is stretched ahead of you and, like, all you're gonna do is write. It's really hard to fill out. I think most of us, if you could put in a couple of good hours a day to writing copy, then you'll be shocked by, you know, how quickly you can actually write stuff and how good it is. Yeah.

One of the biggest reasons that I'm asking this as well is, you know, simply because I think I might not be in a position where I'm just writing for one niche. So right now, it's kind of like starting to write for a client, the personal development niche. So basically, his promises are kind of, like, a bit too vague. But because of his personal brand, he ended up, you know, Getting away with promises by actually getting on sales calls with people and actually having genuine, you know, conversations on his Instagram with people. And that's what converted them. So basically like finding your vision, all that stuff. On the other hand, in the spectrum, I also have a client that I'm writing for in the biz ops space. So basically helping them make money on E comm and stuff like that. So one of the things that was kind of like holding me back was basically, how do I juggle writing for two markets for two clients at the same time? I think you have written for a very similar demographic. But what would your advice be? For example, let's say, let's pretend that I have like three. As far as span of four weeks that I'm able to, let's say, turn over two sales pages. Would they go on a cadence of like, today I'm gonna have 50% of it. I'm gonna work on it on. On biz op and then the other one with a self dev client or just knock out RNBC and you know, just finish like one. One sales letter for the personal development client. Then, you know, once that's finished and go ahead and do the biz op, you know.

Yeah, the. The latter. I mean, that's what I do. Like, I have like, I don't know, four or five letters on my docket, but I'm just one at a time. Um, I mean, like, if you really, like over time of practice, you could potentially do like a morning session and like an afternoon session, um, where you're like, all right, in the mornings I'm working on this letter and the afternoons I'm working on this one. But even then to go back and forth, like between the two, I just don't think that's a really good approach. I mean, if you've got four weeks of, then it's like, take two weeks for each one. You know what I mean? Or if it's three, then take a week and a third for each one or whatever it is. A quarter. We got a quarter. Um, but yeah, I would do it that way. I think that, that people cause you have anxiety like, oh, I'm not working on this one. But it's like, yeah, but you don't have to be working on that one. It's not due for two more weeks or whatever it is. So just get through the first one and have no more anxiety about that one. And as you're working on that one, then you'll have no more anxiety, like either. You know what I mean? So like, that's the way I look at it. Yeah.

Thanks, Stefan.

Yeah, happy to help, Ed. Let's keep going. Let's try and we'll keep our. Trying to keep our answers fairly short. I don't we have to go quite to speed round yet. Both 20 minutes. Let's try and be. Be pretty sustained because I do want to answer as many as we can. So who's next?

Sure. We got Lutefi about finding out his why.

What's up, Luffy? Hello. Hey, Stefan. Hey. Yeah, so basically my question is like, how do you, like, go about figuring out what your why is in life?

Yeah.

Because sometimes I just like, feel lost.

So, yeah, that's basically.

Yeah. I mean, there's like a. Our friend or like a friend of mine, Dr. Gary Sanchez has the Y Institute and he has like a quiz that literally can just tells you what your why is. So honestly, an easy way to do it is to do that and then evaluate it and see if this works for you. I think if you go here and say, discover my why, and then I think it's free and it's purchased now I think he has like a free why quiz somewhere or something like that. But basically I would try something like that to start and then I would reflect upon what you get from results and then basically, does that actually fit? Is it true, do you think? Do you evaluate? Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. They basically took like, Simon Sinek's like, you know, book start with why, which you should also read that if you haven't, and then turned it into like a codified way of like, here are the different types of whys that people have and like kind of then makes it easy for you to go through. So I put the link in the chat. But, you know, I think honestly, that's as simple as like, that's my cheat code for it.

Well, damn, that's news to me. What about you in finding it out? Yeah, I'm still working on it, man. Honestly, I used to be able to give you a solid answer, but right now I'm not so much the good person to ask for that. But just know that it's normal to have fluctuations where, like, I used to think I know what knew what my why was, and then it changed and then it went away for like three years or so. And then I'm just now starting to find it again. So definitely can come in ebbs and flows and at times that you don't necessarily know what your why is. Focus on your intuition and what you feel called to do and pay attention to that. Even the small things, you know, doesn't necessarily have to be work related because oftentimes we think that our why has to be about work, which is true in that it's related to it, but it's not the whole thing. So, like, for me, you know, me and my friends were talking about, you know, Buddhist monasteries and how they heal people and stuff, and I was very interested in that. So that's a mental note. I'm like, okay, that's something very interested in. And I feel called to explore more. Keep that in mind. And then as more and more things get, like, unravel, you start to find out patterns about yourself, about. Oh, you know, I'm very interested in spirituality, which I am. I'm very interested in plant medicine. I'm very interested in serving especially younger generations. But I. I feel called to be the. The light to help people, lost people especially, evolve to the next area of their life and unlock the true potential. I feel like that's starting to become my mission and my purpose and my why. But it could change, you know, and it's okay to change, but just know that it's not always going to be consistent, and you're never going to find your one answer. It's always going to be evolving. So there you go. Yeah, I think I like that. Because maybe I have the misconception that the why needs to be consistent, but I guess it can change. Yeah. As long as you're doing things for the right reason, that's all that matters. Like, a lot of people will do stuff without thinking about the why behind it, and it shoots them in the foot later. So even if you don't have your why per se, if you have your why behind why you do things, why you write a certain way, it'll help to unravel that as well too, just by noticing what your core values are. Actually. Core values too are really important to find out, because then you have a code of conduct, almost definitely. Check out the 16 personalities test and then take that more quizzes and then buy the little packet or whatever. I think it's like 40, 50 bucks. It'll help you find out your core values and help you get to know yourself better. And I definitely recommend that.

You know, I did that for our whole team for my kind of personal brand publishing.

Yeah, we did that.

Yeah. Luffy did his too.

I'm like, istj. Something like that.

I am an infp. A. I just put it in the chat. The mediator. The mediator. I am 64% introverted. However, I'm the most social of all the introverts. 67% intuitive, which I totally agree with. 68% feeling, 53% prospecting, 67% assertive. My role is the diplomat, and the strategy I have is competent individualism, which makes sense because I'm very much in very. I'm an individualistic person. I definitely believe in that. So INFPA is where it's at for me here.

Wait, wait, can we do.

Can we do some INFP as well?

Yo, I'm an. I'm an enfp. T. Let's go enfp, baby. I'm the extroverted Stefan.

It's awesome. How many people know from the 16% if you haven't taken the test, we'll link to in the show notes for sure. Hia says I think about infp. Luffy INS tj. Oh, yeah. Luffy put his in there. Yeah, the logistician. Yep. That makes sense to me. Etnj. Gosh, I have to go on a rabbit hole. But where's the link to that 16 personalities thing?

Put in literally 16 personalities calm.

Okay, well, like, I'm pull it up and I'll put in the Facebook Live comments as well. So if anyone wants to take the test for those watching live, I just put it in the Facebook Live too.

Stefan. I'm the campaigner.

Yeah, I can see that. What was Laura? She was the. She might have been the campaigner. Campaigner as well. Yeah. I'm a bad husband. I can't remember. All right, let's answer. Let's answer some more questions.

All right, I'm look. I'm looking for some.

I answered a couple. I mean, obviously someone asked about how I select a shirt, to which I said it's all about how it makes me feel, which is true. I just had to feel happy. I will. I will legit go to put something on in the morning, and then if I just don't feel like a good energy about it, then I'm like, no, because, like, if I don't feel a good energy about putting the shirt on now, then I'm not gonna feel good about myself or feel like a good energy for the rest of the day. So I legit actually do, like, have a whole thing with that where I try to only keep stuff in my closet that, you know, the. The. Where the tidying up lady is. Right. Like, does this thing bring you joy or sorrow or whatever? And I really try to keep like once a month or two, I'll legit Just purge my closet. Any shirts in there I haven't worn that I'm like, I don't. This doesn't bring me joy. I don't want to wear it.

Then I just put, this does not spark joy. And then you just fucking get rid of it.

I put in a goodwill pile, and I donate it.

For real, Stefan. I do the same process, but I always find that I'm not happy wearing a shirt, you know?

Yeah. For you, it's like, no shirt sparks joy.

No. No shirt sparks joy in me.

Oh, man. Yeah. All right, let's go to the question.

All right, we have a question. Oh, good question from Dan Chong. Oh, you there? Yes, you are. About. This is a short question. Do you have a process for identifying what to focus on in your business?

What's up, Dan?

Hey, Stefan.

Hey, Ed.

How you guys doing?

Yo, yo. Good to hear your voice, buddy.

Can you guys hear me?

Yeah. Can you hear us?

Yeah, I can hear you.

Cool.

Well, thanks for having me on this call. So, yeah, I mean, the question is pretty straightforward. I mean, it seems like you're doing a million things, Stefan, so I'm wondering, you know, how do you identify sort of, what is the key thing that you want to focus on your business right now?

Yeah, I. Look at. I mean, let me actually. Let me think about this and give you the best answer I can.

Can I. Can I talk? I think, awesome.

I mean, you can. I do want to answer it, because it's good. I want to have a good answer to. Not just, like, to sound cool, but I'm just, like, what is, like, my way?

Like, you always sound cool.

No, no, go ahead. While I. From my perspective.

Yeah, sure. I have some questions, though.

When you.

When you say focus on.

Hold on.

Let me reread your question. When you say focus on your business, are you talking about, like, when you have an issue, how do you know what issues to focus on? Are you talking about what metrics to look at? Are you talking about what products to create? Like, what do you mean by focus.

I guess, in terms of growth, because I guess we are in a stage where we are growing, and there's a lot of opportunities that we can explore. So it's a matter of narrowing down opportunities. So I guess the question is, what do you. Do you have a process, essentially, for identifying what's the best opportunity, if that makes sense.

Does. I do have thoughts, but do you want to go first?

Yeah, I think going. Going back to, like, your. Your. Again with the whole Luffy thing. Going back to your. Why it's like, okay, like, let's say you have. Whatever business you have. You go, okay, let's say that your, your, your really big thing is, how do I best serve my clients? Like, you really are very passionate about getting your clients and customers in a specific result or helping them get better results. So it's always like, how can I better serve this person? Right. How can I better serve this individual? So then you create products to help better serve them. You craft your marketing message to tweak that to help better serve them and get more sales. You also reduce customer wait time. You also take a look at feedback from the market as well. I think the number one word for this is optimization. It's like, where can you optimize your business and create systems and processes as well that help you scale up? It's kind of a hard question to answer unless we know more of the specifics of your business and what you're doing dealing with. But oftentimes it just comes down to what. It's like, what is. What is your goal? And then what are the three big rocks or big moving parts that will help you get there? So that could be like, you know, let's. Okay, let's say like our goal is to enroll a thousand people per day. Right? Okay. So to focus on that and get that sorted out. Okay, what three things core. Do it to focus on.

Okay.

We'll need compelling marketing message, compelling product, and probably good upsells and stuff.

Right.

It's. Stefan, what do you think? Oh, you muted.

Sorry. Yeah, I took a picture actually of a criteria. I mean, I think a lot of it, Dan, is like, I think that was good. First of all. Second of all, Dan, I think there's a. There's. There's an intersection of. Of does this, like, follow our why and our mission? And is this sort of within the range of our core strengths and competencies? Because there's a lot of opportunities that it's like, well, we don't really know how to do that, but it'd be cool if we could do it. And it's like that stuff's like, yeah, but there's also a lot of time, energy, money. There's a lot of stuff that's going to go into that because you have to either spend a bunch of money to hire somebody. So I do think, like, maintaining an alignment with your kind of core competencies or being within that sort of, you know, circle is really valuable. A couple of the other criteria I had written down for when I was like, whiteboarding some Stuff. I hope I took a picture of this.

You got one more thing, by the way.

I did, yeah. I mean, I guess the other thing would be like, this isn't actually perfect, but like, like, yeah. And even like the ease of creation, I mean that kind of goes into the core competency. But like, you know, is this something like. Like. Because like, if one thing is gonna take me like a year to do and another thing, I think we'll get similar results, bring us closer to achieving whatever our mission is or in alignment with that, and it's gonna take a month. I will generally go for the stuff that takes a month unless there's some really compelling reason not to. But I think just with my personal stuff, just to speak from experience with RNBC and all that one kind of realization I had recently was simplifying the content. I'm still keep doing road to billion and other stuff that I'm doing. And again, I looked at the framework of like a lot of it. It's like belief content or tool kind of oriented content. But then it was like, fuck, you know, like, I'm a marketer. Like, I create funnels. So I'm like, one thing I should really be doing is like, like, why? I'm just like. I'm like, I have one thing for RBC method for 997 and I'm just sort of like throwing some traffic at it. I'm like, what am. Like, what am I doing? I'm like, let's do a version that's like $97, you know, front end and then like, you know, 30 day. Like basically try it for 30 days. And at the end of 30 days you do three payments and if you don't like it, then you don't have to pay anymore. And I'm like, oh, not just that. I'm like, want to create more. Like I should, you know, like, here's eight mistakes that are stopping you from getting clients as a freelancer as a lead gen. And that goes into like, you know, freelancer freedom or a modified version. Like, I'd like, I don't want to get lost in product creation and like for no reason. But it's like in the day, like, I've got so much good stuff that I can share and turn into products and then create funnels for it and optimize those funnels. I'm like, oh, that's like what I'm really one of the best in the world at doing. I'm like, I should like be, but I'm not doing any of that I'm like, kind of like, oh, what are we doing on LinkedIn? And like, what am I, you know, like, why am I, like, what the hell am I doing over there? Like, let me go back to my core competency. And again, as like, between, when I have a congruent, like, alignment between the free content and the paid content, that's moving towards the why of helping people to escape the cave. You know, I have the criteria still. So, for example, doing something about, I don't know, just some douchey course that wouldn't actually help anyone escape the cave. I know, right? Oh, don't do that. That doesn't align with anything. So I think that's kind of how I'm evaluating things currently.

I got one thing actually, Stephanie, you just reminded me of it. At the old company used to work at, we used this tool called Rice to help us decide what projects to focus on. So, yeah, Stephanie, you're a terrible secret keeper. So basically, on a scale of 1 to 10, we would measure things like, let's say we have, you know, five to 10 projects we want to work on or initiatives we want to do. Well, how do we prioritize that? Right. Again, it goes down to focus, which is why I asked you so many questions about what you want to focus on, what that means to you. Because part of focus is choosing not just coming up with stuff to work on, to focus on, but also choosing what to focus on of all the things you chose to focus on, you know. So Rice means on a scale of 1 to 10, reach, impact, confidence and effort. So reach is how many people will this affect, like customers, staff, et cetera. Impact is how much it'll has to do with your bottom line or conversion, updates or updates. Conversion increases and confidence is how, how confident are you that this is going to work. And then effort is how easy is it to do it. And so if you have something that's high. High impact. High reach, sorry, High reach, high impact, but low confidence and then high ease. So it could be a very easy thing, but it's a big gamble. So it's like, is that worth your time if it's a big gamble, even if it's easy? The good thing is because it's easy, it's a quick test because it's very easy. But if you were to, say, do something that's high, like super high reach, super high impact, medium confidence, but pretty low ease, so it's relatively difficult to do and it takes time, that's a high risk, high reward situation where there's a big payoff, but it takes a long time to get there. So in terms of helping focus on important things to do, it's definitely a very useful thinking tool.

Yeah, that's definitely very helpful. Thanks, guys. There's one thing that I'd like to share about finding a why, if you guys don't mind, just because it's, I guess, on topic and it's kind of what we do in our business. So one thing that I've realized, you know, well, so my business partner, Mike Gillette, he's really motivated individual. I would say I'm a pretty motivated individual as well, but that wasn't really always the case for either of us. And I think that a lot of people hit a turning point when they're really in pain. I mean, how many times do you hear stories of people hitting rock bottom and then climbing out of that? So finding your why? Actually, to me, it's really about being willing to suffer. And it's about, you know, what is it that really hurt you? And when you are able to, you know, resolve that problem for yourself, you can look at bearing the responsibility of resolving that problem for others. So the deeper you're willing to go on that, because if you understand what it feels like to be at rock bottom, you can also empathize with others. And that's very motivating when you are willing to shoulder the burden of that. That pain, I guess, of others. And I mean, I find motivation in that. So that's my two cents in that. So appreciate what you guys shared, by the way. I think the core competency thing is definitely very true. And also the rise tool is very helpful, actually. Definitely never heard of that one. So that's my two cents on that. Thanks, guys.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Cool.

Damn. Well, just like that, Ed, we got like three minutes left. I mean, let's try and rapid fire a couple. I'm going to go through the list here. All right, you go right ahead. But let's see, Max Uria, what is the best way to contact big companies like yours, Stefan or Dan Locks to write new copy for or to write copy. Counting on the fact that I provide a huge amount of free copy upfront, of course. Yeah. I mean, people shared tools for this kind of stuff. Like, I forget there's one that sort of like you can go on LinkedIn and then pull people's email addresses. So someone put in the chat, do you know what I'm talking about? Where it's like you basically can like put People's LinkedIn Pro Hunter IO? Yeah, Hunter, thank you. So if you go in and look at people on LinkedIn and stuff like that, you can use Hunter IO and you can find their email addresses all the time. And then try and go for the owner or the decision maker. Don't reach out to the copywriter. Because if you reach out to a copywriter and you're like, hey, I'm a copywriter and I'll do stuff for free, there's a chance that copywriter is going to feel threatened, like not share your stuff. But if you can reach out to the business owner for the samples, that's how I would approach that. So, yeah, done with that one. Okay. Mark Brown, I'm brand spanking new to copywriting. My first copy was my submission for the Todd Lamb offer in Copy Store Light. But I want to create an offer. What are the steps for creating an offer? Probably can't answer this one in a super rapid, super rapid fire way, but I don't know if I would do. I don't know if I would. I mean, if you're still, if you're, I mean, you can, if I, if I was so new, I would get a little more experience writing copy for people and then create an offer because I think you'll understand how offers work better by writing more copy and seeing more funnels and things like that. From my perspective, like, I'd be careful about jumping right into an offer. It just seems like it's gonna be a waste of time and money and an expense. It'll be an expensive mistake. You'll learn and then a year or two you'll start an offer and make a bunch of money and tell that story as a funny story, I guess.

But why, why, why lose money to learn when you can get paid to learn?

Yeah, yeah, I really agree with that. So Mark, I mean, have we talked about that more at some point, but I really think I'd be careful with that manual. Manuel Zapata, what would be the best approach to get clients for daily email copy? Would you recommend the work in advance method or would there be something else? I mean, I don't know if there's like a. The best approach, but I think, I think, you know, cold prospecting people. I don't know. Edward, do you have. It's like a lot of stuff we share a lot. I'm trying to think of like if.

There'S anything else I would honestly like most of the time when people ask questions about how to get clients, it's something that you always talk about stuff and it's super straightforward. It's just, hey, I wrote you some samples. Do you want more? We can talk about that. And that's it. The one thing that I think the big issue with daily emails, not that there's anything wrong with it, but hurdles you have to overcome when it comes to the client is you have to get your foot in the door. So it would be like, send the samples. Okay, cool. They like it. Maybe write a couple sequences for them. They like that. They like your style. Then you can offer for the daily email. But for the most part, if you offer it out the gate, it's probably going to be a no. Just because they don't know you, like you, trust you that much, they're like, is this person going to write my voice? Are they going to suck? So definitely tiptoe your way to daily emails. I wouldn't do it right out the gate just because it's also not something most people are ready to give up until they really, really trust you. So. Yeah, that's my feedback on that.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Stephen Butler got my first client from paid event, the Virtual Copy Accelerator one. Whoo. Let's go, Steven. Damn. And we gotta be. Gotta be more succinct in our answers next time because I've got. I want to, like, there's a bunch of good questions here that we're not gonna be able to get to.

I know. So good.

I feel awful.

I feel.

I feel sorry if I didn't get to your. To your question. Please come back. I promise we'll do. You know, we'll get to it next time.

Do you want to just do, like. Do you want to do just, like, rapid fire next time?

I honestly, maybe we should. I mean, I just. There's so many good questions, too. And even, like, Steve Gunn had one on relationships, which would have been really fun to answer. I think he's gone. He had to go do some other stuff. Yeah. Next time, I guess so. Sorry, but we. I love everybody. Thank you so much. This is the end of today's. On a sad note, today is the end of the road to billion. But thank you, everyone who joined. Thank you for asking questions. Thank you so much for just spending time with me, whether you're on Facebook Live or you were here on the Zoom call. And, Ed, thank you for being an amazing. You got to flourish today. We had the guests. You know, you don't get to chat as much, but guys like, damn. Yeah. Forget what a sharp young man you are.

Ed, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Yeah. Awesome. So thank you, everybody. If you're on RNBC applied, I'll see you tomorrow. Everyone else, I will see you next week on another episode of the Road to a Billion. Goodbye.