[RTB:E24] Build An 8-Figure Business With Marketing Genius Los Silva - The Road to a Billion Podcast

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host Stefan Georgi and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money, and really pretty much anything else. The reason for the name the Road to a Billion is because I will have hit a billion dollars in sales this year for both my own products and products of my different clients throughout copywriting and digital marketing, things like that. And I want to make a direct impact in the lives of a billion people over the next 10 years. So we'll start taking calls in about 30ish minutes from now. By that I mean you'll be able to put your questions into the Q and A section in Zoom here and then my good friend Ed Ray will go through, review those questions and feed them to myself and my special and awesome guest who I'll introduce in a moment as well. Before I get to my guests though, Ed, do you want to go ahead and say hi to everybody and introduce yourself?

Yo, yo, what's up? My name is Ed Ray. I specialize in Facebook compliance and helping people scale up on Facebook without worrying about the banhammer and helping copywriters expand their mindset, expand their vision and you know, find more of that. Not necessarily balance, but finding a really fun life that they really, really enjoy without having to work their butt off.

Awesome. Fantastic. Well, so like I said, put your questions into the Q and A and Ed will go through and feed them to us in about half an hour. Also, I do want to say really quickly that I have episode two of the docu series that Jude Charles has been doing with me up on YouTube. If you haven't watched it yet, I'll put the link in the chat and I'm also going to be putting it into the YouTube description for people who watch the replay. It's about 10 minutes long. It's pretty badass. You should definitely check it out if you haven't already. I'll pop it into Facebook Live there as well. And now with that being said, let me introduce my awesome guest. So today we are joined by Lo Silva. If you don't know Los, he's been building brands online for over a decade. He is the head of an eight figure marketing agency and the multiple seven figure sister companies dedicated to brand building, customer acquisition and ultimately scaling businesses. And one of Los's most recent wins, which I'm sure we'll talk about today was taking a company from 30,000amonth to over $4 million a month during COVID which is pretty badass. He's known for building and selling brands using influencer marketing, and he's worked with some of the top influencers and celebrities in America. Los. I am super stoked to have you on here. Thanks for joining me.

What's up, man? Thank you guys for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's, I guess, you know, first and foremost, I think I first heard of you when you were partnered with Tanner Larson back in the day, and then Laura was writing copy for you guys. But that was, you know, 2011 or something, or 12 or something. A while a long time ago.

How to make courses for us.

Yeah, yeah. And you guys are doing stuff with clickbank and all that kind of stuff, and you've both obviously gone and done a lot since then. So let's start with the present. I mean, what. Today, what are you. I mean, I kind of read your bio. Like, what are you most focused on today? Like, what are you. What are you doing? How are you spending your time?

I'm working a lot with influencers. More so almost like bigger influencers in the 5, 10 million kind of space, numbers wise, and helping them kind of build and execute brands, whether as a consultant or some sort of equity partner inside of that.

Awesome. So, by the way, I just realized on the Facebook Live, I'm like, nobody's watching. And I had it locked to only me. So I just realized, I'm like, oh, that's why nobody. So we'll see. But. Okay, awesome. So how. I mean, how did you get into that? What took you down that path?

It was a massive accident. So we had an agency. We've had an agency for a while, but probably like six years ago, a dude came to us and he was like, hey, I don't really have a brand. We were working with, like, you know, more expensive clients that were doing something already. He came, he had some notoriety, and. And he was like, hey, I don't really have anything, but if you can make something work, I'll give you 50% of the business. And I was like, I don't really want to do that. Like, you know, but we'll give it a shot. And we gave it a shot, and it didn't work. At the beginning, we kind of flipped the offer and that ended up being our first big brand that kind of like hit eight figures. It just started, you know, one day I was at the gym and it was 9 in the morning and we had made 16K, and I was like, what is this? Like, what happened? And then just from there, just kept scaling and scaling. And then I tested it again. I was like, let me grab another influencer and another one and another. And for a while, we kind of flipped the model and stopped doing agency work. We started kind of more so partnering with influencers, which was good, but it was also a great lesson because influencers are not business people. And so they think very differently of, like, what your goals are, are scaling a business with E commerce and stuff, usually trying to build either a portfolio to sell it or something that hits a good ebitda, like a good super net, let's just call it, for people who don't know what EBITDA is and then sell it for a multiple. And they just wanted a check. Bigger checks. Every month you make a bigger check, they want a bigger check. And they don't look at like, well, there's inventory, there's new hires, there's this. They're like, no, I just want a bigger check. And. And so we sold some of those brands and kind of went back into the model more, being way more exclusive on who we work with in the partnership capacity. And we went back to like, you know, more of a direct response kind of copy. Not copy, but direct response experts at like, you know, sharing in the profits of scaling with brands. That got us to. Once we started working with a few influencers, bigger influencers, kind of figured out who we were and then we started working with them. And then that just kind of snowballed into a lot of relationships in LA with like, Hollywood people and different stuff like that. And so now we're working with a lot of, you know, I would say, like, I don't want to say B or C list because I don't want to, like, offend them, but like, not fully fully A. You know, we don't have, like, superstars there, but we have a lot of people that a lot of people recognize that we're working on now and their brands, whether it's digital and with some of them, it's merchandise, it's E commerce, it's brands, it's supplements and stuff like that.

Awesome. So the first one you worked with by accident, what was like, that kind of product or offer.

An offer in the keto space? We had a NDA before we sold it all out. So I can't, like, be specific about it, but it was an offer in the. In the keto space. And at one point, you know, we were spent we were. We would see, like, the Google trends, and we would see, like, against, like, what we were spending on. And we were like, man, we're literally driving Google trends right now. We're spending so much. Yeah, it was really, really interesting. It was a lot. A lot of good stuff to learn, you know, and then we got into just more general fitness that kind of spun into a lot of fitness, famous people. And then after that, I kind of took a turn into working with, like, famous entrepreneurs, so to speak, because they got both sides right. They had influence, but they also, like, were like, oh, let's. How do we scale this business? And so that kind of took us into more working with, you know, like, thought leaders, celebrities in particular spaces. And we've been able to do a lot of stuff with that. And so now the agency's kind of split. We have two agencies, actually. One that just focuses on thought leaders, and the other one, I have, with my good friend Josh, Eliza from Snow Teeth Whitening. And that's all for direct response, e commerce, DTC stuff.

Nice. By the way, I'm so impressed that you were able to just pronounce Josh's name like that smoothly, because every time I see it, I'm like, josh.

I know. I know him very well because, you know, my partner. So I've learned to figure it out. But it's funny because, like everyone else, I just now I just call him Josh Snow.

Right.

Oh, got it. That's easier, you know?

Yeah, I know. Well, I mean, you know Justin Gossip, my partner in Copy Starter, and he still says my last name wrong. And, like, I literally call him out on it, and he's just like, yeah, it's too late now. And I'm like, what the. Like, what the hell? But, you know, I think a sign of respect for sure, but not really. Mike, Mike. Mike Balmaceda says Los is a man and then gave you a goat emoji on Facebook Live. So that's pretty cool.

That is my boy, man. Me and Mike are doing a lot of cool things as well. Nice on the podcast, by the way.

Yeah, I'm down. Mike hit me up. So, yeah. It's interesting, though, to go from just, like, the peer sort of influencer people to people with more business savvy, which makes sense, right? Because it's very. And I think this is a good lesson for freelancers, copywriters, people who are earlier on in their career. But honestly, even I see this with copywriters who get to a decent level, and then they're getting offered 50% of companies kind of like what you did, and you were wary of it, although it worked in your case. But a lot of times, unless someone's like, hey, I've got a good idea, so can you write the copy, build the funnel, drive the traffic, manage fulfillment inventory, and run the whole business, and I'll give you 50%. But the way they hear it is like, oh, I'm getting 50% of a company. But it's like, yeah, to run 100% of a company. And if you have no experience, you had experience running companies before too. But I think what people. The mistake they make is just thinking, oh, equity. I have a whole YouTube video about how equity is a trap.

Equity's fake, right? Right. Equity is not a real thing. A lot of people get excited about equity. I'm sure you did it when you were younger. I was younger, I was like, dude. And then you go brag at an event. You're like, I own seven businesses and the equity's crazy. No one's gonna, especially in this market, 1% of people are gonna sell a company. Most people aren't gonna have a company for the next two years. So the best thing you can do is make a profit share deal. If you can make a profit share deal, you're good, you're consistent. And so that's when we do agency work, we do profit share deals where we, you know, we share in the success that we're having together. We also have like an upsell to that, which is kind of like CMO for hire. Like, we can make CMO decisions for different channels and stuff like that. Because another thing I try to like really explain out of people is, you know, everyone gets excited. Like, everyone thinks building a business now is like, I gotta have good copy, decent funnel and scale my Facebook ads. That's a channel. And if you're doing well on that channel, that doesn't mean that channel can't go away. You need to have all these other pieces. Where else are you driving media? What else are you doing for growth? Like, what does your brand look like? Because if something goes up, I mean, we had an offer here that we were spending $35,000 a day. Facebook was like, nah, I don't like it. And we cut it down to 10 and had to get good at YouTube. And now we're spending 50 on YouTube, right? But like, if we weren't ready, we're like, oh, man, this is fickle. Let's just have two or three more channels. Now we're doing Pinterest. If you talk to the V shred guys, who I know you know well, they're seven, eight different channels. Like, that's how you really grow a business. And I think there's a huge difference between growing a business, a company, an organization, and. And having a really nice lifestyle business. Neither one of is right. Neither one of them is wrong. It's just you for sure should know the discrepancies of either of each, and you should kind of define what you want for yourself.

Yeah, dude, that's awesome advice. It's actually really timely. And it's funny because when I was talking to Laura, like, my wife this morning with her skincare company, you know, she got, like, the banner from Banhammer from Facebook, and, you know, it's been this pain in the ass, and she's been kind of, like, in the dumps about it a little bit depressed and bummed and all that. But I talked to her this morning. I'm like, well, I'm like, all right, well, like, let's. Like, like, literally first thing, I came into the room, and she was kind of sad about it, and hopefully she doesn't mind. I'm gonna have her talk to you after this, but. Because, you know, I'm like, all right, so, like, your funnel, your sales page, landing page, like, it all converts, right? It's converted, like, two and a half, 3% on, like, cold traffic on Facebook. I'm like, so that's great. And high, like, high ticket, too, right? And her AOVs are like, 150 to $200. It's like, okay. I'm like, so that's working. I'm like, your products are really good. Your fulfillment styled in. Basically, we'll do the whole list. I'm like, the only problem you have is traffic. And you've had this issue with Facebook for a year now where it's like, yeah, it's great when it can work, but then it doesn't. The only thing you should be focused on is just getting other sources of traffic and other ways of getting customers. But I think it's easy for business owners to get really stuck in that. It's like a myopic tunnel vision where it's like, oh, Facebook, and. But then Emily Lark, who you probably know, and back to life, and she is doing over a thousand sales a day, and she recently switched to where 80% of her traffic isn't from Facebook anymore. And, like, you know, so to your point, I just. I think it's really smart what you guys are doing, and I think a lot of people, as you're seeing, because I'm sure you guys are. I think you guys are doing quite well. Right. And it's because a lot of people are finally starting to realize that rather than worry about as much as Ed Ray, we love you, Ed. And that you can help people avoid the banhammer and stay compliant. It's, like, much better to have a diversified source of travel. It's better to have diversified anything, right? But especially traffic. So it's pretty cool that you guys have kind of figured that out.

So Josh and I have a. We have a mastermind and a coaching accelerator as well. And the big thing, you know, a lot of drop shippers come in and they're like, you know, Ferrari guys, whatever. Like, it's this big money play and something. They got three, four, five stores. They're all going down and up and down and up. Someone copies them. And the big thing that this accelerator does is it kind of like everyone kind of got mad at the beginning. They're like, well, I'm not learning all this Facebook stuff. You're gonna learn it if you have a problem. But, like, if you want a quick Facebook ad course, go buy. A hundred thousand of those things are available. Like, you can just find it anywhere in the world, right? What we want to try to show people is like, how do you get on qvc? How do you build a good brand? How do you really maximize Amazon? How does everything speak to each other? How do you get into Target? What can you do with influencer marketing? Can you move into different channels? And that is how you build, really sustainability, man. Because that's the scariest thing about what we do online. Got something and it's working. And then two seconds later, something that is not in your control happens and it's gone. And if you don't know these other things, you're like, well, I guess it's over. And then you just kind of pivot and kind of do something new instead of, like, really being like, man. But we have all these assets, we have all these things. We can leverage this to here and then try to work with something else into getting us into a new place.

Yeah, no, I seriously think that's huge. So when you've been working with. I mean, it's interesting, so QVC stuff. And obviously working with influencers, the influencer one is interesting to me because it makes so much sense. And I hear people just crushing it, like micro influencer strategies, right? Where they're like, hey, you get a bunch of these micro influencers, like, it all adds up. There's like a long tail effect. Do you guys have, you use that strategy? Do you go for the bigger named influencers from a promotional, not like to partner with even, but on a promotional standpoint or do you do both or.

Like if you're small? We just, we're actually launching a masterclass and side of this is we actually trademarked the term Nano Influencer.

Nice.

If you have a 2 million, 3 million, 5 million person influencer, the odds are that that person is doing their own thing. So you're not going to actually talk to them or their brand slot. And so they have no sales capability. And with Instagram dropping reach and things like that, you're not getting it used to be, hey, I got a person with a million followers swipe up, we made 100k right? Now if that person swipe up, swipes up, you're lucky to make 10k. If you did, you're like, wow. And you paid them more than 10k. So like you're kind of, you're, you're broke, you're broke even or you're bad. Now if you go into like the nano influencers, that's someone with like 10 to up to 100,000 followers. These people have community and these people have like, these people are being followed because the people that are following them really love them, they trust them, they're not out there whoring themselves out. They don't have 17, 100 different offers. They really only sell things they believe in. And so those people at scale can create more for you. So one of the things we do is we create like a fake viral campaign. We have a huge network of pages on Instagram, so we'll pay some pages to make a drop at the same time that these influencers all make the drop at the same time. Same time. And so you're seeing your product on like 8, 9, 10 different pages. Main pages that you follow, brand pages that you follow, personal brand pages that you follow. And it creates this like spider web of like, yo, what is this? Who's all using this? Right? And so you now have user generated content, you have testimonials, you have a lot of stuff that you can use for advertising as well. And it creates this big effect of being able to build a really nice pixel to later on be able to retarget that and be able to try to get similar people.

Yeah, that's, that's really cool. Especially I've heard from some people who have used influencer strategies and those drops and things that like they don't know when it's coming. So it's like they're just like hanging out and then suddenly like, yeah, it could be today or in three weeks from now. And I that. So it sounds like, yeah, that's it.

You have to be very organized with it. It's like hurting, you know, cats. Like you have to tell them what to do, tell them what to say. A variation of what to say, how to use the product, how to look at the product. And if they do do it the right way, it's in the contract, they don't get paid. So you have to get specific because these people think that I'll do it my way. Like your way doesn't work. You don't know marketing. You are a great content creator. They're creators. That's what they are. Stop thinking. They're business people, entrepreneurs, all these things famous. They are creators. You like them because you like what they talk about and what they create, content wise. Other than that they don't know what they're talking about. I know for a 100% fact because I talked to hundreds of people in that space. Right. So they need as much guidance as you can possibly give them specificity so that you can have your campaigns be like, spot on.

Awesome. And by the way, in Facebook Live, Tony G. Said the legendary low. So you're getting goat legend, getting lots of love. Yeah, but. Okay, cool. So one question I'm curious about, I think is related because what one thing I think about is what's like next, right? I mean direct response is not basically ever going away, at least not in the foreseeable future. And the direct response elements are like what I try and explain to other people. Where it's like, hey, like even like long form, frankly isn't going away either. But like I get it. Like, you know, maybe you get tired of long form. It's not the only medium. But you look at a lot of e comm pages from brands and there's like all these direct response elements that could be applying and they're not. And you know, you're like, oh man, there's a huge opportunity here. And same thing with like, I remember, gosh, at you're at the 100 million thing. One of the influencer girls who, she's got like 30 million followers across different platforms and being like. And what I'm realizing now is that, you know, if I get people onto an email list, like that's really valuable. And she was sharing it like she just discovered, you know, like America for the first time. And you're like okay. Like Chris, Christopher Columbus. Like it's. Yeah, but you know, but it's cool. They're just behind a little bit, but you're not, you're kind of at the forefront, which is awesome. So given that, my own. I have a PR agency I've been using for some of like the stuff of the Forbes articles and one thing they've been asking me is, hey, what are some trends you see coming in 2021 to which I have totally have been slacking and not giving them answers. So I won't steal yours, but I am curious as we get towards the end of the year and going into the next year, what are the kind of trends that you see happening and I guess the world of marketing, E Comm, influencer marketing, and even direct response. I'd be curious to hear.

Yeah, so in E Comm, I think really in any business, Nano Influencers, Josh has another company that has nothing to do with E commerce that is in the insurance kind of ish space. And he's getting C level celebrities to speak about the product on TikTok specifically because of the virality. And he's getting thousands and thousands of opt ins and that, you know, that goes into email. I think one of the trends that no one's going to want to publicize about this, but you'll like it is think email marketing is huge. I think communication marketing is kind of like what the next thing is. It's building platforms. You know, back in the day, you know, you see all these funnels, you only need one thing. And like that's true if you want to make a couple bucks, up to a million or whatever, right? But if you really want growth, like you need a Facebook community, you need an email marketing channel, you need a text messaging platform, you need to have a Messenger strategy, you need to have something going on Instagram and you need to have. I look at those all as email channels, right? Like this is where I can communicate. I just have. Yeah, sure. With, with regular email marketing I get 20, 25% opens. With messenger I get 80% opens. With texting I get 90% opens. But now if you blend that, I'm getting 50% opens, right. So, so that's how I'm communicating with people, especially with influencers. The big thing that I think is going to be huge is the opportunity is partnering with them and creating brands and you don't have to do full business partnerships. There's plenty of ways that they can get paid. There's plenty of almost like affiliate joint venture kind of relationships. That you can kind of like just be a little bit, just more savvy about the structure of how you want things to go. For us, I think that those are two big things. If you're in the make money online or real estate or some sort of like thought leader space, I think it's the same thing, right? Like how many people we work with, a lot of people that are on TV in the real estate space and stuff, and they get huge results. But there's also other people that are on TV that don't do any of this. They're actually flippers. They're actually doing podcasting and all that kind of stuff. Can you create a relationship with them to do a licensing for their name and you, you know, create a product that goes into your back end? Can you spend money on their podcast? No one spends money on podcasts. And podcast people are 71%, like higher in the income bracket. They're making 70/,000 dollars. They're listening to you. If it's auditory, people are connecting. I think that the big thing that I'm pushing the next year is like, get off of the concept that, like, you have a Facebook business, you have a company, you're going to have to do a lot of things that, that a lot of people don't do. And that's why we succeed with our customers and clients. Because, like, we go like, that's dope. But here's five other things we should do. You know, a lot of people. Let's talk about the PR thing for a second. A lot of people do it. They do it for the clout. They're like, oh, I get to be in all these things and I get to share it for me. I started doing it because we work with now, like people that are like cma, wme, like, they're, they're googling me, right? So I don't so much for the reach. I do it for the SEO and I do for representation of my brand now, you know, and that's way longer, like, longer play. I'm not making money from it. I don't need to though, right? Because I know that if you Google me, there's so much more that comes in and there's a lot more respect. You're going to get better deals, better stuff. If you're a trainer, if you're an entrepreneur, don't look at it so much as, like, let me swipe up and show people I was on Forbes spend three times as much. So when people go verify who you are, if you're Saying you're a consultant and you've done these things. They can back it up by, like, legitimate publications that show, like, okay, this guy's been in the game. He's been speaking, he's been teaching, he's been doing all that. And then platforms. I really think TikTok is probably going to be, prior to even Instagram, one of the most monetizable things. Because if you look in China, they have another platform where they're doing, like, lives and you can buy the products live. I know Instagram is going to probably try to copy because that's what they do. They just kind of copy ideas. But TikTok will be the forefront of that and really trying to reach, you know, we're growing. Millennials are getting older. Gen Z is kind of coming in. You need to start relating with those people, especially if you have products and services inside of the E commerce space, because those are the people that are buying. If you look at Snapchat right now, a lot of people that have clothing brands are spending a ton of money on Snapchat. Whether it's to build a pixel or to build brand equity. I think direct response will always have its place. But I think that people need to start thinking less like a Ferrari drive in dude and more like a person and mean like, all right, well, this is my extra 10, 15% budget. Where can I go get audience? Where can I go get pixels? Where can I go get impressions? Not for the sake of just getting impressions, but, like, for retargeting, for longer term, for more branding. I think people that are playing that game are going to smoke the guys that just want to make a couple of dollars. Get a strong roas, dude.

Yeah, no, that's. There's so much gold there. I know Sam Novak said in the chat that her brain was exploding. And then Peter Hewlett too, said Lois, dropping some knowledge bombs. But seriously, yeah, that. That is so much good stuff. And I, I think even honestly, for like a personal brand, like, I talked to, I don't even know, like, Ryan McGinn, who he's doing a lot of stuff for Jason Capital. But, like, I'm gonna have him start doing, like, a lot for TikTok for me and, like, Instagram and like, you know, right now, Julia, my assistant, puts all my posts up. She takes pictures. Like, I write them. But, like, you know, and I've been slow to evolve. But I think another lesson for people too, I'm sure you would agree, is even if you feel like you're behind now, it's like, you're not. It's better to start doing it. And especially with TikTok, it's like TikTok still pretty early on, right? Like, yeah, there's a lot of people, and it's like, you know, but it's still like. It's like where Instagram was. Is it fair to say that's where Instagram was? Like, you know, five years ago or whatever? Six years ago. And, yeah. So when you look at that, you're like, oh, I wish I started on Instagram earlier. It's like, oh, cool, now's your chance here. Like, TikTok. Right, right. And, like, yeah, but even for a personal brand, I think, like, just reaching more people. So I think that's really, really interesting. I mean, do you. Do you think TikTok, like, is. Is there any chance that it goes away and it's not the next thing? Yeah, so I didn't think any. That was gonna be the answer.

But why?

Why? I'd love to hear why.

It's already ingrained. And if you. If you think about the people, let's just say TikTok is like, they're trying to get rid of it, right? Okay, so you get rid of TikTok. I already know all the influencers and all the people that are actually on TikTok can go to their iPhone, change their setting to say that they're in Japan or China or whatever. Boom, they can reinstall TikTok, and they're still working on it, so it's not going to go anywhere. Everyone's going to find it and use it the way that they need it to be used. Also, I think that TikTok is totally different than where we're at. Like, you know, Facebook is for how people look at it. Like, in the space. Facebook's for old, old people. It's kind of becoming political. Instagram is for, like, younger kind of millennials, but the older version of millennials. Younger millennials. And then, like, Gen z, they're on TikTok and they're on Snapchat, and that's just how it is. Right. And so if I want to. If I know where to hit who I need to hit. And so if you really want to, like, be smart about things, like, where are these people? They're here. They're here. Okay, so my Facebook page should talk to these particular people. My Instagram page should talk to these particular people. My T. Stuff should look a little bit like this. And, like, what's the demo? Is it a black demographic? Is it White dudes, Is it older people? Like, switch your pages. Be a little bit more dynamic with what you're doing. I know. I'm saying, like, do harder things, but, like, everyone wants to make a lot of money. The people that make a lot of money do harder things.

Yeah. And also, I'm sure you would agree, I bet, from my experience, because even, like, with affiliate marketing in 2015, 2016, and to me, it's like, oh, I'm a copywriter, but, you know, ooh, affiliate marketing. That sounds so difficult. Like, well, and I had this, like, stupid block for the first year, right? And that's. I've said it before. It's like, I made a million bucks in revenue, lost 200,000. And the next year I was like, all right, I'll do affiliate marketing. And then I made, like, $23 million in revenue and, like, net a couple million. Right? And, like, and not that, you know, affiliate marketing is, like, old news. No, I'm still being so great. But, like, the point is, it wasn't actually that hard. It was more like the fear of the unknown, I think. And I think that's probably the case with some of this stuff, too. Is it like, I wonder, like, it's not like, it's. It's not rocket science, right? But it is doing the work of putting. Investing in these platforms, spending the time to figure it out, actually, you know, like, kind of creating the content and all that. But, like, I think for a lot of people, myself included, the thing to remember is, like, none of these things are usually like. Even Facebook media buying is, like, not that hard, right? It's like, just, like. It's just. You just have to do it, and then you have to get over the fear of the unknown and actually take action, right?

Like, we have, you know, some people that try to come in, and we don't really take this type of client on, but people come in and be like, hey, I got an offer. I made 50k twice on Instagram. Now I want to make 100k on ads. And I try to explain to them, all right, well, how long do you have for that to happen? Well, I want to do it next month because I did 50 here. Okay, well, let's look at the logic in that, right? Like, you made 50k on an organic. People that know, like, on basically your email list is what you did, right? And then you want to go to cold people that have never heard of you and have never exposed themselves to you, and you have no true sales mechanism. No funnel, no vsl, no Anything. And you want to double what you did to the easiest people that it is to sell to you. And when that doesn't work, they're like, well, the ad suck. This sucks. Like, no, bro, your offer is not good. You're not being patient. There is patience. There's losses. I mean, we spend lot of money. You know, we spend, like 4 million a month on ads, and a lot of it is a loss. A lot of it is data. Like, it's data aggregation. And the people that stay with us a long time and the brands that we build. Like, I go into a brand, like, if we launch an offer, I'm like, all right, well, let's just. Let's blow, like, 20 grand real quick. I don't have an expectation. I'm not saying you have to go with the expectation of, like, well, this 20 grand is going to get us 100 y'. All. Like, no. I go like, well, I mean, let's figure out what happened. And, you know, it might be 5, might be 10, might be 20. But I'm willing to just lose it to be like, okay, now we know what we did wrong. Then the next one, like, we have baby KPIs, and then you grow a little bit more. And then you grow a little bit more. You know, I really think that people need to start looking at things with a more patient base and with a little bit more, like, more about the brand. Like, we're all entrepreneurs because we want to make a lot of money, but a lot of times we disrespect what gets us the money. We disrespect the business. We're not willing to, like, put money back into it. Like, we're not willing to nurture it. Like, you wouldn't treat your wife the same way you treat your business. You wouldn't treat your wife with the same expectation. Like, cook something for me. Get me this. Well, I'm out. You're stupid. Like, that's not how it goes. But you do it to your business every single day, right? And then you're getting. Then you're not, because your business isn't treating you the same way. It's like, well, you're not treating it with the tenderness, the love, and the care that it deserves. Right, dude?

Yeah. That's so good, man. Just dropping bombs list. So good. Cool. So we're gonna switch over to taking questions. And so if you have a question, put in the Q and A. And again, make sure. Eli, I see you, and I love you. You're on. All panelists, go to panelists and attendees. Steve Gunn. I know you were. Yours was purposely all panelists Steve Gunn. Steve, you should talk to Lois. For sure. Steve's got a CBD offer, is doing 1,000 plus front as a day of Tommy Chong, and I know they've done some influencer stuff, but Steve, you should honestly talk to Lois. But anyway, before we go to Q and A, Ed, as the wonderful co host, you get the first opportunity to ask questions. So do you have any questions for los before we jump in?

Yeah, for sure. I'm actually really curious where you kind of see. How do I put it? Kind of. Like, I know that you mentioned that you have to adjust your marketing message based on the platform that you're on, which is super, super key. A lot of people forget about. I love that a lot. Especially as a Gen Z. I appreciate that. So, like, I've seen Instagram steadily go downhill. Is that still a viable option? Or is it, like, seriously diminishing returns at this point? Like, what are your thoughts on it?

So I think that you can definitely make a ton of money still on Instagram. It's gonna still work organically. We have people in our groups, and even, like, they can push 50 to 100k a month on Instagram still. The way that they do it is like they create content. And what we do for people is, like, we create these mini video sales letters. So instead of, like, you being face to camera, like, hey, guys, what's going on? It's Ed. I want to talk to you about copywriting and this and this and this. If you want to work with me, just swipe up or DM me. Instead of that. What you do is, like, almost make it a vsl. You make, like, all, like, you take some copy inside of your pages and go, attention freelance entrepreneurs. And so they're reading it. Have you ever wanted to make money from your computer, especially in Covid during these times? And you're just, like, making them click, click, click, and read it. Look at the screenshots that I have from people that are working with us. Screenshot, screenshot, screenshot. Testimonial, testimonial. Now, if you think that this is possible for you, I've set aside some time to talk, blah, blah, blah. But they're reading it. They're. The reason that that works better than you telling them is they're reading it to themselves. So they're creating their own hypothesis in their mind of how this can or can't work for them. And then you're addressing the issue, you know, what the pain points are, you know, what the rebuttals are going to be. So that also goes into the sequence, like a vsl, but they're reading everything, and then you go, so if you want to talk about this right now, DM the word copyking right now, and we'll set aside some time to talk, and then everyone starts to DM you. Now, that makes it way more organic than you going out pushing, pushing, pushing. Because what happen is, like, people that if you're pushing stuff and you're trying to get DMs and swipe ups and that doesn't go well, the algorithm in Instagram is also going to be like, this dude has shit engagement. Like, let's just keep dropping it and dropping it and dropping it more and more and more. But when you have people reaching out to you and people saving your stuff and people sharing that, then it goes like, all right, you get more. And so you're able to consistently get more stuff. Obviously, on the ad side, Instagram is really good, especially on retargeting specific videos and stuff like that. But I still. I still think you can do really well on the organic side. What I think that is a really good combo now is kind of doing a double team of giving value and then driving to a free Facebook group. Because now you've got all the engagement inside of that group. You've got a really good community. And we have this process, we call it C4. It's content. It's the content that you're creating for people in whatever modality. Then you're having conversations because you're making them DM you. And then you're moving into a community where you're giving value and goes back to content and conversations there. When you have all of those, then you have conversions, which is, you know, what makes it explosive. That's why it's like C4 or whatever. And so that's kind of like how we move people into that process. Because it's simple. Because people. What do I say? What do I do? We'll focus on the content first, then take it into DM conversations, then move them into a community if they don't want to buy immediately. And then you consistently nurture those people and build really good conversions.

Dude, that was fucking fire. That was awesome, man.

Yeah, it's so funny. Steve Gunn was like, oh, I can tell this is gonna be. The replay's gonna be my heavy rotation. And then, yeah, if you were sitting there and watch this multiple times. And yeah, I was saying to my chat I'm make my team. I was. Everything about this, like, like, this whole opening part, I'm like, I'll make my whole team watch this, like, multiple times too. So los, you're bringing it, bro. I'm loving it, dude. So glad to have you on here. This is so good.

I love, I love the concept of taking the concept of a VSL and putting it in the Instagram story. Like, I worked with an influencer and like, I worked with a few, but one of them was having a really hard time with their Instagram and like, their. Their engagement rate just kept nose diving because it was just hard pitch to swipe up. Hard pitch to swipe up. It wasn't like the organic VSL like you were saying. And, dude, that would have worked so much better.

So with that too. When you're working with influencers, make sure that you're looking at their insights and make sure that you're looking at their analytics. Likes and comments don't really matter anymore are people sharing and saving the content. And a big way that you can get people to engage and share and save the content more is if you do carousels, like educational carousels. Just kind of like giving some context. Context and then also giving some testimonials or whatever the case inside of that. Making people swipe. A lot of people share that, A lot of people save that. It's really educational. It brings a lot of value. A lot of times people just create content for the sake of creating content on Instagram to throw some stuff out. And the more you throw out and it doesn't work, the more Instagram goes like it's trash. And so you need to always be creating different things. The other thing that I do to increase my engagement is I post a lot of memes, but not in my feed inside of my story. Because what do we all follow? Real talk, we all follow at least seven to nine meme accounts, right? And so I grab all types of memes from all types of pages. Because now you're engaged, you don't even know sometimes who you're watching. You're just clicking this thing. And once you fall in love with like three, four, five funny memes, and then you watch like a vsl, you're already hypnotized through the moment of the memes. Then you get into the VSL and you're like, oh, shit, this is for me. And then you watch that. And then that kind of gets you into really good place of like, okay, this is who I need to communicate. It also, like, moves People forward inside of like the storyline within stories. If people watch more of your stuff, it'll Instagram will automatically be like, let's show more of this. Because they keep watching these persons, this person's story.

Dude, it's the. It's the organic mini VSL meme pattern interrupt.

Yeah. So, dude, that's exactly what it is. It's a pattern interrupt. And then you're like, oh, this is the story. Right?

Dude, that's so brilliant, dude. Shit.

It is. Yeah. Dude. So stuff right now, this is awesome. Well, shit, let's go to some questions. Ed, go ahead, man. But this is. This is awesome. I mean, I feel like before we.

Do that, I'm gonna Please Ed, one more thing. So one of the things you can do to like create like quick cash. If you want to do stuff on Instagram, there's a lot of meme pages, right? You go out and you do the viral thing. So we did this for my buddy Bedros. Basically we created a meme style introduction to him. So he had a gtr. He lost it because he was broke. Made it back when he made money, bought another gtr. And so instead of putting that as a boring normal story, we made it look like a meme. Almost like Sarah's discovery or something like that. How it started, how it's going, but then wrote some copy for it and we put it through like four or five pages. Same time, we spent like five grand on this. And so it had a virality effect on all these pages. A lot of people started following him. He got like 10,000 followers. And inside of that, he gave a little like, yo, what's up? This is me. Memes, memes, Boom. Story of like how he does his thing. And he sold like seven people at $12,000 right after that. So if you want, because you have an offer, think of like, how do I launch this organically? How do I get more people, bring in more people, make my pixel stronger and be able to monetize immediately what I just created and spent money on. So you're going to get a bigger audience, a better pixel and revenue immediately.

Nice.

Yeah, that is nice, dude. So good. Okay. Yeah. Ed, you want to move into the Q and A section here, bro, I.

Want to be selfish. I'm going to keep going, but I.

Mean, I know I'm just going to like, oh, seven, I need co host. Oh my God. My goodness. Sorry about that. Yeah, dude, it's like. And by the way, los. When we're, when we're done, obviously, if you whatever Links you've got for, you know, like your mastermind that you're doing, anything you guys are doing. Make sure you can drop them in the chat or give them to us to drop and we'll put them in the replay in the description too. But like, that's the funny paradox really quickly about. And I found this too, right? Like, if you know me, I just give away a shit ton of stuff, right? I'm like, hey, here's the blueprint. Literally, here's what, you know, do this. And then people are like, okay, awesome. Can I give you money to like, you know, either help me do it or whatever, right? And it's the same even when you're talking. And I'm like, fuck, okay, I'm fine. I want Laura to hire you or try to work with you or join the mastermind. I'm like, oh, like, I'm going to like, you know what I mean? Like, you're just giving, you are giving so much right now. But like, I know, you know, you know how it is. This could come back to you like ten fold. Because there's so many people who are just going to be like, coming into the world.

If you give value, no one's going to do it. If the people do do it, then they're gonna love you and they're gonna appreciate you. And if they don't want to do it, like, that's just. I don't, I don't want anything to do with that. Then you're. They're gonna hire you. So I never understand why people try to, like, here's the secret to this and that. Like, all my stuff always says like this. I'm gonna tell you exactly what it is because it is what it is, right? And if they can do it, like, you're also here to serve. Like you're an audience because you give value, not because you're dick about. You know what I mean?

100%. No, I completely agree. And I'm with you. When people are withholding on information, it's just super bizarre to me. And like a scarcity mindset. And. Yeah, it is. And again, I want everybody to do it, right? That's true. Truly. I'm like, I'm like, dude, I want to make people's lives better. So it's like, if everybody does what I. The advice I give, if I give good advice, I'm like, that's great. But to your point, yeah, like, it's totally true. Some people are gonna be like, oh, like. But even the people who do it right People who crushed it with, like, my RNBC method, which is like, a lot of people, then they all want to join Copy Accelerator, the mastermind, which is right, because, like, oh, fuck, I want to be around you more. And so I think it's a good lesson for everybody, though, who is watching, whether, you know, as a business owner or teacher, copywriter, whatever it is. It's like just being giving is one of the most. Like, it's awesome because it's like you're being selfless, truly. You have to do it from a place of selflessness, but, like, you get, like a massive ROI from it. So. But yeah, sweet.

Cool.

David Rosa said beast, which I agree with David Los is a beast. Okay, Ed, what we got? Who we got?

All right, so Marcus Sortius, he let me know he can't hop on, so I'll read the whole question. Marcus asks, how do you evaluate which influencers to work with? Do you have any tips on approaching influencers and making deals for them to promote your offers?

Yeah. So how do you evaluate people to work with? You want to make sure you reach out to a few people and have them send you a screenshot of their insights and a screenshot of their demographics. Everybody and their mother can get a million followers. But if you have followers that are Egyptian, Indian, Brazilian, you know, unless you're selling Egyptian, Indian and Brazilian products, you're not going to make any money off that. So the flex is cool, but, like, it doesn't really work for you. So you want people to have tier one countries. You want people to have American, Canadian, and uk. If you have those countries and there's good engagement, then you can make a good amount of money through that influencer. Also, the reason you want their insights is because you can see their demographics and how basically, it's basically like looking at ads, right? Like, what's the demo? What's the audience? What's the age range? Okay, cool. This person fits my particular scenario. And so what we do is we do deals with influencers. This is the best one that you can do. You do a deal, say, hey, I'm gonna pay you $1,000 for this story. And this, you know, little feed post that you do, it's irrelevant to me because I know for a fact that, like, I don't care about the story of the feed post, right? What I care about is inside of the contract, it's gonna say, and if it works, I'm gonna get to use this on advertisements. And if it works, I'm gonna pay you monthly to be able to use this as ads from your page. And so what I do there is I'll pay them their fees or whatever the case because now I have their audience, I have their page. So I'm communicating my message through their page, their audience and their demo. And so that's how I do those influencer deals. Because it allows you to kind of get like two different sources of traffic, it allows you to use their contents as user generated traffic and you're basically just leasing their page and their content monthly until it doesn't work, then you flip over into the new one.

Yeah, that's awesome, Marcus. Hopefully that helped. If you want to put in the.

Chat, we have a follow up question from somebody in the chat that's relevant. How do you check if those Instagram followers are real or bot followers?

You, you will know through the insights. So if you, you can't tell if they're bots or not. But like you'll tell through the demo of like if, if you have 75% of your people being Egyptian and Indian, you probably have bots and you have like just, you have a trash following. Like it's not worth having a conversation. If you have tier one countries and 25, 30% are American, 7% Canadian, like 1% UK and then you have Brazilians and all that, we're all gonna have them because like they're huge places that are just now getting Internet, right? So that's okay. We want to give them value but like mathematically speaking, for return on investment, they're not going to do anything for you. And so that's kind of why we asked for the insights and we asked for pictures of all the demographics. There's also a tool you can go into called Ninjalytics. You might want to get the pro. And then you can look at everyone's score and you can look at kind of like their audiences engage if their screenshots are real based off the demo from that software.

And from my experience and Lois, correct me if I'm wrong, if somebody has let's like a buttload of followers, like you know, 10, 50 grand followers. 50,000 followers and their engagement rate is like, like they post a photo and they have like 10,000 followers and like one person comments. It's like, yeah, those are all bot.

Yeah, same as if you have a million followers and you're getting 10,000 likes. It's trash.

Los. What do you think? This is a totally selfish personal question. I'm curious. I know somebody who, cool dude in our space and he basically has a program where it's like, hey, pay me 10 grand, I'll get you 10,000 followers. And he's manages some big people's accounts and stuff. I think part of it is that he basically has them all drop your content and link to it, things like that. Another strategy I think he uses that I don't like, but I'm curious to get your take on is that he makes people's profiles like private. So then you have to follow to see the content, which I get that, but I don't like that one. To me I'm like, yeah, I really don't make mine private. So I'm curious. It's a two part question. One is like, yo, have you seen people who offer those services? Who. And again, this person is actually in the 100 Million Mastermind with us. Like I know we do that as a service. Yeah. So it's like, so it can be legit, right. If it's targeted.

It can if it's, if it's American based. So like we do we need 5,000, 6,000, I think for like 10,000 people because it's getting more and more expensive. But we only focus on tier one countries. Very specific people, like very specific pages. Because I could go do it for you, but like just do it in pages that are going to come from giveaways and trash. Those people are going to leave. So the rate is going to be really bad. The reason he's locking the account is because that kind of shows that they're bad people already. Because I don't have to tell you like to not to go. Follow me if you do this or that. Because we know that the pages we do work. The reason you do the like account blocking is because most of the people that you're gonna get are gonna be Indian. And so you, you're gonna complain, be like, dude, or they're gonna leave. And if people, if you do these things, the one thing no one should ever do in the world is ever do a giveaway with anybody because they're trash. Just don't ever do that. They're. It's like a drug addiction. You do it, you gain 50,000 followers, you lose 25. You need to get back because now your cloud is messed up and they're all non buyers. Like it doesn't matter, right? Like, you need to look at this mathematically. Like if I give you $6,000, can I make $6,000 in 60 days and can I just keep refreshing that revenue until I feel comfortable? We have some people that spend 40 grand with us on Instagram because the return is so good after a while. Right? But yeah, like that if you're doing the blocking thing, it just means like bad people. You're working with pages that just don't have good audiences and are just sending you. It's the same as media buying. They're just sending you bad traffic.

Interesting. That's really cool. Yeah, I was curious about that strategy because I thought maybe again it was to encourage people to follow. But yeah, I didn't think about from being bad traffic. But hey, if you're doing it too man, I tell you, I'm gonna hit you up after this call. Gonna be the most profitable podcast you've ever been on. I'm like, I gotta hit loss. What's up dude? Ed. What? Let's go on to another question here for sure.

We got a question here from Robert Woodstock about starting a new brand. So I'm gonna unmute him and he will come on and ask the full question.

Cool.

What's up Robert?

Hey everybody. How you doing guys?

Los man.

Hey, for. For a brand, you know, brand spanking new brand just being created. Do you have some, you know, hey, these are the things you really need to do. This brand is something that. Something I'm working on. I would, I plan on selling it in three to five years. But as far as foundational things that maybe you've seen people not do before causes them a lot of problems down the road. Maybe a place e commerce. It is for supplements. Okay. The first thing that I would do is have a legitimate budget to hire a real copywriter in that space and use Stefan's copy accelerator group to hire that person. I'm not kidding. You're competing with like gods in this space. Like there's. This is serious when you're getting into the supplement game. So I would for sure have a strong VSL and have someone who can help on the conversion for that. I would make sure that you have the appropriate upsell so you can go get a good average order value. I would have a little bit of a budget later on to test on some influencers that you want so you can start running traffic through that. And I would make sure that the branding is on point and I would say that there's two different styles of how you want to do this. Right. There's like a big brand, like a direct to consumer which is going to look totally different and it's going to be appealing to a bigger mass Facebook based audience than a more like clickbank offer which you're going to be focused more on affiliates, it's going to look a little bit different. It's going to say a bunch of different things inside of that. Going to be harder to. To run that on Facebook. So kind of pick where you want to get started and don't veer. So if you're going Facebook big brand D2C, you can get a good copywriter for that. That's going to be easy. But that brand is going to probably be something that a lot of clickbank people don't want to take. It's just not a good fit for that audience. And same with the ClickBank affiliate stuff. It's going to be a lot harder later on to drive that into Facebook and make sure that your product is a little bit unique or proprietary or at least productize it in a specific kind of way. If it's just greens, you're going to be in trouble. If it's greens with a prebiotic inside of it, and it's now creating some sort of thing called Prio greens that, like, helps your stomach and releases, like, different things that help heal your gut, then now you have a productized version of something that can really help your copywriter make this special. All right, great, thanks. What about the. The actual brand name? Is there a way to protect that? Yeah, you can trademark it and you can go to. If you don't have a brand name yet, you go to brandbucket.com and get ideas on brand names with logos already inside of it that you can just buy. Right.

Awesome.

Cool. Thank you, man.

By the way, I hate giving away, like, something I'm like, a good idea for, like, going back to being abundance, but honestly, on the supplement side, so I'm reading the Carnivore code right now. I'm doing a Carnivore product for somebody. And then reading that book, though, I'm just totally, just totally makes so much sense. And I know obviously Joe Rogan was doing Carnivore and other people are, but I honestly feel like we're Keto is now Carnivore is here on the wave. So if it were me and I was gonna start a new supplement company right now, I'm honest to God, I might do it. It'd be all about Carnivore because there are people doing, like, meat pills and organ pills. But even the other thing, too is like, okay, L Carnosine. L Carnosine. There's two different things. Sorry. L Carnosine. L Carnitine. Choline. Right. Creatine. Like all those things which you know come from animals. So it doesn't. It's not just like the organ stuff, but you can even still be doing other supplements. But doing it from the concept of like carnivore. Like, oh, yeah, there's pills. Because I saw a couple of years ago and I didn't get it. I'm like, why would you just be taking like, you know, like venison organs, like in a pillar?

Do you?

Yeah. Well, now I'm down to. I'm seriously gonna go carnivore. Cause like, reading like the science behind it is just super compelling. I don't know if you're carnivore or not, but it makes sense, right?

I went carnivore for a little bit because we work with Mark Bell and he's a huge carnivore guy and we learned a lot through like, we do did his Instagram for a while. And so we like learned so much about the carnivore. Which it's funny cause like, I thought the same thing. I'm like, man, no one's taking advantage of like just carnivore, like specific people. It's niche, but it's the same as keto is going to be like, it's here for a little while, then it's going to be like Paleo. It's just what you do.

Yeah, 100%. I really think it's the next one. And again, if you look at the. Read the science, everything. I want to read that carnivore code book, but it's like, I don't want to derail the conversation, but it's just, it makes so much sense. And then it's all. But from a copy perspective. Okay. Because you're about how every plant basically has all these toxins in it because it doesn't want to get eaten and it can't run, it's buried in the ground. So it's defense mechanism is all these like toxins and poisons are inflammatory and all that stuff. There's this stuff about how like you have like, there's way more vitamins than meat. Like guys, like, there's more vitamins, antioxidants, all that stuff. Some meat, you don't need it from vegetables. He's like, plants have a different operating system than animals have. So like when you get stuff from plants, like, your body doesn't really absorb it. It's not good. Like turmeric, like, which I've taken a shit ton of turmeric and sold a lot of turmeric. But he's honestly like, Turmeric's the fucking worst. He's like, you know, there's all these terrible things with turmeric. Like, you know, you see the copy for turmeric products and they're like, oh, the problem is that, you know, turmeric's not bioavailable. And, like, he's like, yeah, it's not supposed to be because, like, it can totally F you up and do all this stuff. And then, like, we add, like, black pepper, which can, like, stop your liver from detoxing itself. Yeah, dude, there's so much copy, like, from a kyber. So it's like, hey, like, don't ever take another turmeric supplement until you do. Like, don't, you know, throw out your greens. Like, is kale causing your allergies? I mean, there's just so much you can do with Carnivore. And so again, I'm not like, not to, because I was. Robert, you talked about picking, like, a unique product, you know, and so then my head went there. So. So for people who are kind of aspiring to, like, you know, create an offer, and in the health space, I just. Just. It's free advice. To your point, most people won't do it, but I might. But, yeah, for people who are looking at starting something, think about Carnivore.

So.

Thank you.

I just downloaded the audiobook.

Dude, it's. It's like, it's so good, especially as a copywriter because, like, I actually. It was cool. I do a lot of health copyrights. Like, I knew what he's talking. He's like, talking about all this stuff. I'm like, oh, I actually know what he's talking about. He's talking, like, inflammatory pathways in the body and like, all. Like, he talks about Dr. Gundry a bunch and he's like, you know, Dr. Gundry talks about lectins, and you're like, oh, I've talked to Dr. Gundry before. Like, it's just kind of, you know.

It'S cool down the road.

That was awesome.

Yeah. Who we got next?

We got a question here from Marcus again. I'll read it out. Because he can't come on the show.

Marcus is killing up the questions right now.

He puts a lot of thought and effort into it. He's sitting in the chat.

Good man.

What kind of offers work best for influencers to promote direct to sale, free plus shipping, viral giveaway, etc.

It depends. And all of them. It depends on the influencer, it depends on the offer. It depends on how you're positioning it. Depends on what your goals are. I wouldn't do free plus shipping. I would try to build a list with an influencer, so, you know, swipe up to get this free thing that I made or direct to sale, but direct to sale. I would rather push to a funnel. Don't push to your homepage. You got a lot of leaky bucket opportunities inside of a homepage. A lot of people that drop ship just have like a one or two product thing if you're smart. Even if you do have just one product page, I'd funnelize it and I'd make people go through upsells and put people through buyer's heat and like make it, you know, try to maximize as much as you can through that. So those are the two that I would do.

Yeah. I'm curious why. Why do you recommend building an email list rather than doing a free plus shipping or anything like that?

I just want to have the opportunity to mail people and build out my own lifetime value. And I don't know what a funnel is going to convert to a particular influencer every single time, but I know that what we can do in 30 days with an email, I got you.

So it's almost like, because you don't know about the quality of buyer intent of the influencers list, you have to start from scratch because obviously they don't know you, like you, trust you. So you have to build up that rapport. And as probably people who primarily hang out more on social media and are exposed to more offers, you feel like they need more time to be nurtured. Is that kind of the deal?

Yeah. So we're basically just addicted to dopamine, you know, and so, like, everything is a dopamine hit. And so if I tell you to swipe up, you will. And the swipe up is the hit. Like, oh, this is cool. Like after that, like, you already kind of have your hit on that. You might not want this. It might be too much. You're probably also looking at the phone. Someone could have texted you. So, like, I'm just trying to build an asset list. Like when we work with influencers a lot. The other, the other thing is, you know, depending on the relationship, they're lazy. They're like, I already did that. And so you can, you know, we have a campaign right now for Black Friday or for this. Like, I already did it. I don't want to make people upset. Well, I'd rather text them or email them and be like, well, I'll make them upset, dude, I'm gonna Send an email right now. And you know, I'd rather, I'd rather, I want keep as many opportunities for me to be the one that's messing the ball up rather than them because if they mess up like they don't care about you or the product or anything as much as you care about the product that you're building.

I see. So you want to have as much control over the eyeballs that you get as possible. I see.

Right, Yeah, I like that.

It's good.

Awesome. Cool. So we got about 28 minutes left. You feeling okay? You need a hydration break? You're doing, you doing all right? Yeah. We go, we go long form with these but, but it's awesome. So sweet.

I have a question of my own.

Okay, sneak it in.

And you're like, let's say you know, in your 30 days that you follow up with them. Do you do like classic doctor like long form VSLs because like, like you mentioned each platform you have to treat differently. So if you're marketing to somebody who's 6, you know, 30, 50, 60 plus on Facebook, they're going to sit and watch a 50 minute VSL. But person my age who's 20 or younger or like a little bit older in that category, it's less likely I think to fit.

Oh, you're totally right. Yeah. So we, we don't do much long form Dr. Or VSLs in E commerce at all anymore. We've tested it and you know I know plenty of people that would say the complete opposite that are doing way more than us and that's also corre. But like for us we go for, you know our average goal to try to get somebody is with email images, like different brand based stuff on email. It's less like that long form stuff that you'll see, you know, like more real direct response kind of offers come in. It's more like trying to engage. Hey sale, get this, get this. Or it's actually an educational piece of content that drives you to an advertorial that inside of there sells the product directly. Novia seller is like hey, click here and then you go to the product page and if not we'll basically just do like a quick lander with like 2 to 3 minute, 2 to 3 minute videos on what you have, what's going on, Boom, boom and click the link below. We go quick with it. For us testing it, it always converts better. When we go long form we don't have the same conversions and I think that's just like a different audience. I think you know, I think everything does matter. I think that. I do believe that the ClickBank style brands and the D2C style brands in E commerce are totally different. Right. Like, you're not going to get. If you were selling a mattress through ClickBank, you would have to talk about how in the Himalayas, there's a certain kind of cotton that was found that people used to, like, figure out how to make by themselves and lay themselves in a bed. And that's the specific cotton that's in these beds, and you can only get it from them. And it's organic and natural. And all this because the ju know that if you use the other kind of cotton, you could get cancer. Right? Like, so that's the stories that are happening over there. Casper is never going to do that. They're like, no, dude, our mattress is fucked. Look at this. We dropped a little egg here. And the stuff stays. This is the technology by my stuff right now. Boom. Right? And so we talk to more of those people than these people because we run. You know, in our experience, we've worked a lot of people on ClickBank. We can't get those offers to go because of compliances and different things like that. And so we had to make a hard point one day and be like, well, what do we want to do? Well, let's just go over here and work with brands that have a different kind of budget and different kind of goal. And so we kind of focus on more like the Millennial less boomers. It used to be our audience was more kind of like the Walmart Target mom with $75,000 medium household income, and now it's a little bit more blended. And so we have different conversations. And that's what email segmenting is in these particular situations now, too.

I love that. So it's almost like you're adjusting your marketing message and you're formatting to market to the ADHD dopamine junkie, but also the skeptic, too.

Yeah. So like, with text messaging, right, we know statistically through all the text messages that we've sent, that if you are a millennial all the way up to 40 years old, you will 100% reply to our text message marketing and you enjoy it. Now past that, if you're 45 to 60, you hate it. You press stop and you never click and never buy. Like, for us, like, we've seen that. Now we're like, okay, so if it's this kind of a list, we go for messenger because you actually want to spend all your time telling us who you are on messenger and someone who's younger is going to be, I don't have time for that, send me a text, let's go. You know, and so you have to be specific about who you're having conversations with nowadays. Especially if you're driving, you know, big media, like, sure, you're driving broad, but you know, like different segments where you're gonna be able to have people lay out in their own pockets, right? So I know that like when we build a text list, I know the demo of that and we build a messenger list, I know the demo of that as well. So you speak to them differently.

Dude, I love that. And the funny thing is, especially in our, in our industry, I feel like we were kind of like, we have a hammer, we think everything is a nail, right? And it's like, oh, throw a long form thing on that, throw a long form thing on that, throw. And like, and that's cool because it works really well for a lot of things. But at the end of the day, it comes down to who we actually talking to. Like one thing I've seen a lot of people do is they, sorry, Steph, I guess I'm, I'm taking over.

That's fine. I'm having a whole sub chat about Carnival diet in the chat anyway. But also, okay, I'm having a good time here.

But they, they, they don't take into account like who they're actually talking to. Like, though they'll, they'll try and put people on Instagram into like a, you know, 30, 40, 50 page long form thing. And these are just like 17 year old kids who are looking at, you know, just memes and they want like that quick hit, open me and they just want to buy quick or get out. And like they're not going to sit and read long form as much. Again, there's always exceptions to the rule, but most people just won't do that.

The thing that people don't realize is like, people will buy. You're stubborn and you think they're gonna buy your modality, they're gonna buy their modality and you're just not willing to build a different modality for them to buy your thing. And that's the reality of it, right? Like, there's a bunch of different people you're really talking to. And if your offer becomes stale, what does everyone do? Go like, offer sucks. What can we do? New offer, right? You should be testing and using that as a control. Like, all right, how do we use the majority of this control to like Start talking to like a younger demo or like shorten our pages or make it prettier or make it uglier and start to talk these different demographics or switch and like if I'm doing just keto, cool, can we make a page that's just CrossFit and keto and how that like really helps? And can we do something for like aging and collagen benefits of using this keto collagen for this for older people and like anti aging angles, like switch the conversations. I understand obviously that scale means like more, but it also means less. Like the more you scale, the less conversions you have. And so you have to figure out like, okay, well how can I create more opportunity whether it's inside your email or different channels to try to get more scale from the scale that I'm actually doing and getting. Getting more conversions rather than less. Because it's just math, right? The more you scale, the more people are not interested in this offer because you're just going to such broad places. And so that's where you're getting the 1% and the 2 percents and the 0.5 and still profitable. But what if you could have another little pocket where you're getting another 2.3, 0.7, 0.8 and start building that all into like a blended like 2% all traffic.

I see Ed's mind computing and like just being partially blown but also sinking in.

Yeah, dude, I love this. I love organic media. I don't do anything, I don't do it at all for my own brand. So it's super fascinating for me. So when you have these like shorter form or E Comm style pages, do you find that they convert well on cold traffic without having an influencer behind it?

They need a face. They need a face for a small VSL to get better conversions. We tested it without one and the conversions definitely go lower because now it's just a random brand that I don't really know about. Even if it has clean branding, like there's no one telling me anything. And what you can do in a long form is you can tell a story and you can't do that if you're going with a shorter form. And so you have to have someone kind of being that face. And it doesn't necessarily have to be anymore an influencer. It just has to be an attractive character that believes in that brand. If they can speak well in their dynamic in the video, then that will be fine. So you can hire actors. Blue Star, Nutraceutical. If you guys see that like they're working with like subpar fitness dudes, right? They're not famous fitness dudes. They're not massive, they're just okay dudes. But they know they can speak well, they look good, they play the part and that crushes.

Yeah, I bought one of their protein powders actually. That's funny, dude. That's so cool. Shoot. I was asking one more thing or is it.

Right?

Okay, so when you say like more E. Comm style, that's basically just being very product focused. It's like, hey, here's what I've got for you. Like it's like, like if you were to take, you know, the long form sales letters, like there's the lead, there's the, you know.

Everything else, you're still gonna, I think taking a little bit less of emphasis in like the big part of the story, which is a huge thing and like moving how the story has to do with you. I think with E Commerce, you know, it really starts with the ad. Do you have a really good ad? Is it an ad where it's a video and you kind of have an idea of like what this is, right? If you do, you're moving into two, which is already the product page. And that's probably going to be a funnel, right? And so that funnel is going to have a two, three minute video. Be like, hey, I know that you saw our supplement and the big thing that I want to talk to you about is why most people buy supplements like this and it's trash. It's because of the formulation. So we created a formulation that does this, this, this and it has prebiotics. Because the reality is you can't actually, your gut is going to process 15% of this instead because it doesn't have a prebiotic. Now a prebiotic is better than a probiotic because of this. And our formula combines all those things into one. And it's patent tested, prove it and organic. So click the link below, check out the testimonials and we'll talk to you soon. Right? And so in the bottom, it's ingredients. What else is going on? It still has some, but it's not a 35 page letter. It's probably like at the end if you like documented, it's probably like four pages in a quick little 2, 3 minute BSL. It also allows us to iterate quicker on like oh, that bsl. You know when you're looking at like, like running big traffic, right? You're changing headlines, you're changing the video and you're changing probably price points. Then if you want to get like technical, you're looking at buttons and stuff. But that's almost irrelevant compared to those three main changes. If I got a 45 minute BSL, fuck, like I got to set up everything and see like where did they drop off, what happened here, what happened there, like a 2 to 3 minute BSL, I can go like, I don't like this and this, change this, add this and actually give me a cool new one. But use this as another topic where you can run things against each other and run a split to test. Right? And so it just acts as the quicker way to iterate products for you to be able to, you know, test when you're scaling offers.

I love that. So it's. So it's all like after this follow.

Up, I do want to get to the Q&As and make sure we.

Okay, sure. I'm sorry. I'm having a great time here. So it's almost like, if you guys, if you could put it this way, it's almost like having an 8020 over like basically the whole thing. Like if you were to, you know, take, take 40 things, like 40 pages and shrink it down to 10 or like even five, you can shrink it.

Down to five or you can shrink it down to two different pages and test.

And then you focus more on the actual mechanism of the product. Because they're just so sophisticated. They don't want to hear the story. They don't want to hear, they're just like, okay, what's in this?

What's the strongest thing the fold can have? And anything under that is going to be like what's inside of the product and some extra benefits and then buy, right? Testimonial, heavy type stuff, user generated content, videos, Those are very important to have. But really we try to figure out like what's the strongest message that we're trying to say. Like if it's a Black Friday sale, Black Friday sale, get your teeth whitening kit available right now. Only these many things left, guaranteed to smile, immediate smile success in like nine days or less, blah, blah, blah. So I know what I got. I know what it is. I saw the ad of like beautiful people with their teeth. Okay, cool. Well scroll down, like what's inside it, why it's different how it works with your phone or wireless, whatever, right? And then boom. I got a pretty good idea what this is. Click and then that's it. I love it.

Okay, I have more questions, but we got to go to, we gotta go to other People.

Yeah, it's all been gold.

I'll give you my number. We can talk offline.

For sure, man. Sounds good. Thank you so much.

Yeah.

Okay, cool. So question here from lutefi about scaling e. Com on YouTube. So go ahead, Luffy. I'm unmuting him and he'll ask a full question.

Hey, Lars. Hey, Stephanie. What's up? What's up, yo, dude?

Yeah, so I run off YouTube ads.

For like consultants and like coaching kind of offers. So I'm wondering if you have any tips for scaling e comm offers on YouTube, especially in terms of the creative.

Yeah, so scaling YouTube. We have one of our offers. We're doing, I think like 30, $40,000 a day on YouTube. We actually are spending less on Facebook because of compliance issues or just asshol. And so with. With that, the big thing with YouTube, so Facebook, you kind of throw anything out. You get quick iterations, you can throw images, and you can kind of like get a quick conversion. Facebook's always gonna like give you preference on like that initial little budget that you have. And if you have something normally even still nowadays, you can like bump the budget up 20% and get a little bit more scale and start testing stuff out. Now with YouTube, it's gonna be more about like the video. Like, it's gonna take you longer. You're gonna see less conversions at the beginning because you really have to strong YouTube video has to come in first. And so when you do a Facebook video and you try to take that video to YouTube, you're gonna bomb. What you need to do is have a video that has a something that kind of like, you know, it's kind of like a pattern interrupt, boom, immediately. Then some sort of education. And then you want to have a call to action, right? And so you want to have a pattern interrupt. Then show what your product does, how it works, and why it's special, and then have a call to action and try to create some sort of scarcity, like limited quantities only this click now, blah, blah, blah. Only for you guys. You can do some special cool things and targeting depending on like what your offer is with that. But it's all about the video. Because when you're scaling an offer on Facebook, you have a lot of opportunity to like, oh, the ad doesn't work. Like this is a problem. Like the account shut down, like all these things. With YouTube, you can ride one ad to like a million month, but you have to get that one ad, right? And that one ad should lower your CPMs. It should get you better CPAs. But to get that one ad, you might have to do way more iterations that you would while you're making money on Facebook. But scaling is a little bit easier on YouTube once you have that one ad.

Hi. So do you have like a testing process for testing liquidity's on YouTube?

We do have a testing process. I'll try to get a document over to Stefan because it'll probably take us 40 minutes just to talk through that.

Okay. Okay, got it. Any chance that you use Facebook as a testing platform before you move the creatives to YouTube?

We normally try to get someone to 100 grand a month on Facebook before we even consider YouTube.

Okay, so you wouldn't test a new offer?

Yeah, I mean, Facebook's just cheap and easy. YouTube's a little bit harder.

Okay, got it. Thanks.

Yeah. Awesome. Cool. For sure.

Let's go to the next one.

We got trifecta from Max here, but. Oh, quad. Quad fecta.

Max.

We'll do one or two. We'll probably focus on the big leap one, but. Sorry, go ahead and.

Sure, let's do it. And by the way, lost side, side, tangent. I'm versed in Facebook compliance. I'd be happy to help you out.

Yeah, man. Thank you. You all right?

Cool. So we got a question here from Max. Let's see about the upper limit and where they show up in your life.

Cool.

What's up, Max? You there, bud? Okay, okay, now.

Now I'm unmuted. Yes, sir.

How are you guys? Everything fine. Let me be quick see here so we can get to some more questions. So I was talking, the question was about limiting beliefs. And I also read Stefan's recommended book, which was the big leap. And I was wondering, how did you.

Guys at Lowe's and Stefan, how did.

You guys burst through those limiting beliefs and upper limit, like self negative talk and all that stuff? Stuff? How did you work in it?

Honestly, my limiting beliefs. This is gonna sound super cocky, but it's not meant to be that way. But I don't. Limiting beliefs. I really came from. From nothing in my life. I've lost multiple businesses. I've lost multiple millions of dollars. My. My dad ended up killing himself. I've almost died from like pneumonia. Like I've gone through anything and everything that a human being can go. And so I realized that I've always, like, every time something happens, I come back bigger. The only time that something has ever stopped me is when I used to go to like masterminds and events and like, dick. Measure myself against people that are doing whatever they're doing and try to think that I had to do the same thing once I stopped doing that. And I was like, I am me. I'm trying to build this for myself and my family, for my homies. Like, this is what I want out of my life. Once I started looking at that, like nothing ever really mattered anymore. And it's been really good for me because I don't really fear anything. I mean, one exercise you can do, man, is go to. And I had a friend do this to me. He took me to like the most expensive part of an area and he made me imagine buying like this ridiculous house. And then he took me to like the most poverty place there. And he was like, what would happen if you lost your business? What would happen if you lost your friends? What would happen after that? What would happen after that? What would happen after that? And he took me to a place of like death and misery and was like, dude, I guess I would be dead. And he's like, how do you feel? I was like, it's horrible. But then I was like, but that's impossible. Like I'm already at a place in my life where that just, it could not ever physically happen. He's like, so why are you stressed out? I guess I'm, I'm not. And ever since that day, I was like, I have nothing to be afraid of. And I do believe also, like I'm a big like positive dude. I don't, I don't get involved in talking bad about people. I don't say negative words about myself, about other people. I don't drive that kind of energy to anything because I believe like it really does come back. I'm pretty like karmic based, not like woo woo. But I do believe that what you think you need to like really believe it. If you think something and you're like trying to force yourself, I'm telling myself this. You believe something, you think something, you believe something, you take action on that and then you live. Like that is your thing and that is just a reality that's gonna happen in your life. Is it gonna happen like in two minutes? No. Like it's not like life takes a minute, right? Like be okay, but like keep living that way and more things are gonna happen for you than if you keep stressing yourself, giving yourself anxiety, raising your cortisol levels, creating like face stress, right? Like be more present because anxiety is just you future pacing things that haven't happened. And so being present kind of like relieves that stress. And well that's not real and it's not here today. And if it is, I'll deal with it and we'll be fine. The next step.

I loved it, dude. That's awesome. I'll see you in episode two.

Cool.

Thank you. Thanks, Max.

Awesome.

Ed, let's get. I see like Eli's got one. Can we do's got one, I think. And then I see Isaac and Mike. We'll see if we can get through all four. But let's go to Eli next.

Do you want to do speed round? You want to do let's get Eli.

Eli just got to be. You got to be succinct, Eli.

But I got a hard five because I have a 2:30. Dude, I'm sorry.

That's okay. That's fine. We try to end on time one day. That's okay. Yeah, I'm down to do that. All right, well then let's speed round it then. Can you? Yeah.

Cool.

Do you want me to read them out?

Yeah, let's go.

Eli goes lost. What do you think of TikTok influencers also as an agency, do you prefer paid traffic channels over influencers? And what's the main KPI you use to compare? Both.

They're both paid traffic. So if you think about it like that, you're just spending money on a different modality. So I prefer paid over anything in General. I love TikTok influencers. I think they're the future and I just think you have to find the right ones and again, be patient with it. I would start for the most part if I have a budget and I have a particular product, I would just look at it as like, what do I need? Do I need an immediate ROI? Maybe test out a TikTok influencer. If I have a little bit of budget to like really do some real testing. I test that out on Facebook first. I always go Facebook first. Then you go YouTube. Always buy brand terms and stuff on Google and different things like that. When you have more revenue, maybe go into Google shopping and if you're kind of like a paid personality, kind of like, you know, like Stefan and myself and stuff like that, I would just go Facebook first because influencers aren't going to be as good as you selling some sort of video sales letter or application based funnel.

Sweet. Awesome. Los, thank you for that. Cool. Let's go to Kimmy Doos next since we answered one of Max's.

All right, so Los, what is your take on TikTok ads and the best.

Niches to advertise on there Health, finances and debt consolidation and that's it. Those would be really good ones. Health, wealth and personal development, that's what life's about. That's what everyone sells at the end of the day. True.

It's funny because it's what they say for a direct response, copy niches, offers like long ways. It's like it doesn't change, right? It's like, doesn't matter what the. It's just a different platform, a different medium. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Exactly. All right, next question from Isaac Hyde. Any advice on pivoting from just emails for an influencer to handling social media posts and ads for them too?

Yeah, do it.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, that's. I just do that. Yeah.

Question from Michael Joyce. Is there any solution for really high end low volume items like yachts, luxury Items, luxury estates, etc. With limited confirmed sales? Really needle on a haystack scenario and most buyers come from referrals.

So if you have a yacht company, you should have influencers come to your yacht, promote it, have parties, do stuff like that. That'll blow up your account and it'll get similar people that want to be like them to approach you. There's a company called Luxury Something Instagram that does that for people. In Miami. There's a lot of hotels like the Viceroy. A lot of hotels will give you free amenities and stuff like that. So you promote that stuff. I would go more promotion based stuff with influencers than paid traffic. You're not going to get that demo. You're not going to get that right message on paid media. It's gonna, that's gonna be a needle in a haystack. But influencers, if you can have a budget, you can have a business.

Awesome, dude.

Kind of like the Fire festival method, eh?

Right?

Yeah, yeah. Fulfill. Right?

Yeah, yeah. Don't go to jail.

Don't go to jail and give people bread sandwiches and FEMA tents. Do you know I was supposed to. Well, I was in Miami to go there. I didn't buy tickets, but a friend did and he was like taking off of us. And Laura had never been to like a festival ever, so she was like so excited. And we got there and like we're getting group texts and people are like, I don't know, there's some sketchy reports and I'm like, I'm sure it's going to be fine. And then we ended up not going. We're like, well, let's try it. We'll go tomorrow. And super stoked we didn't go there and get stranded on Fire Island. That would have sucked. That's clutch, dude. Los, thank you so much for being on, for this incredible wisdom.

I'm going to have to. I'll make sure I get your number from Stefan and we'll jam, man. Yeah, for sure.

I just give you a follow on Instagram, dude, so we can chat there, if that's cool for you. Yeah, we can text after.

Los. Do you. Do you have any links or anything you want us to share? I can do it. I'll put them in, like, the YouTube description and stuff like that. But if you have anything. Where can people follow you? I mean, on Instagram or what? You know, what's the best way?

Hustle on Instagram and I'll direct you to whatever. Whatever we have because I don't even know our funnel pages.

Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate your time today.

Thank you guys for having me. I'll talk to you soon.

All right, thanks, man. Bye. Cool, so that's gonna wrap it up. Ed, you did awesome today. Thank you for. For taking over while I was having a carnivore diet chat for a stretch of time, but thank you.

Thank you for letting me do that. That was a lot of fun and very insightful, dude.

I mean, seriously, like, I, like, cannot wait to just, like, I'm for sure gonna hire Lois for some stuff. I mean, that guy just is so, so smart. Loved it. So thank you, everyone, for watching and this will end it up. Oh, cool. Is it? Everybody just put the Instagram link in. Cool.

Perfect.

Thank you all. We'll see you all next week. Actually, we will see you next week because next week is Thanksgiving, so next week there will be no road to a billion. I know, I know. The sadness, the tears, pain. I'm pretty sure Laura would kill me if I do a road to billion on Thanksgiving. So it's gonna be a week off next week. Most almost for sure.

What am I supposed to do on a Thursday, bro?

Like, dude, you know, I don't know, but I know I guess you're Canadian, so I don't know. I'm gonna be eating turkey and. And probably not following the carnivore diet, but anyway, love you all. Thank you. See you all next week.

Later.

Bye.