[RTB:E27] 3 Tips To Make More Money As a Freelancer/Entrepreneur In 2021 - Road to a Billion Podcast

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host, Stefan Georgi, and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call and radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money, and more. The reason for the name is because the copy that I have written for myself and my clients will be hitting a billion dollars by basically the end of this year. I don't have the official tally, but if it's not by the end of this month, I mean very quickly thereafter, and the goal is to make an impact in the lives of a billion people over the next 10 years, whether that is mental, emotional, financial, spiritual, physical, relational, whatever it may be. We'll start taking calls in like 10 minutes, 15 minutes probably. And the way that works is you just put your questions into the Q and A section in Zoom. If you're joining us here on Zoom and watching it live, are interacting live. And then my friend Ed Ray will go through, review those questions and he'll feed them to me, but also he'll answer some of them as well, and we'll do our best to help. Ed, do you want to go ahead and say hi to everybody?

Hey, everybody. My name is Ed Ray and I recently got a haircut and I recently trimmed my beard down, so that's a new thing. And I basically, well, I do a lot of things, but one of the things I think that's most that can really help showcase a bit more of what I do is I, me and my partners, we help people get their Facebook accounts back from Facebook. So if you get banned, shut down ads, get rejected, and you think, oh, shoot, there's no getting back. There's no coming back from this. We got cucked by Zuck.

We.

You can't get your business manager back. You lost 600 grand worth of Pixel data just completely shut down overnight and you're scrambling and you can't get it back. We help get your stuff back and protect you on the backside and the front side. So you separate your personal identity or your client's identity from your Facebook assets so you won't have that issue again. And we basically help you get back on Facebook and stay on Facebook. So there we go.

Yeah, the last part was the succinct part because not getting cut by Zuck worked. And now it's like we help you get back on Facebook and stay on Facebook. That's like the tagline there.

Yeah, it's better to sell the cure rather than the prevention. So now we offer White Glove Done for you services.

Oh, man. And what's up, Marco? I see you on Facebook Live as well. For those on Facebook Live who are watching.

What's up Cecilia?

Yeah, what's up everybody? So, um, except we'll start taking questions in a few minutes here. Sometimes I do like a, an opening monologue. I'm not going to like, I don't know, I'm just going to ramble for like five minutes basically about interesting stuff and maybe we'll talk a little bit about it because it's my show and that's what I feel like doing. And then we'll answer questions and provide a lot of value. So things I'm thinking about right now, one, I have two things on my mind, you know. One is I went out with one of my best friends and my wife yesterday around like 3:30 and we went to like the casino by my house and my friend had just had a big like lawsuit with like an ex business partner dismissed. An ex business partner, like had no like grounds for it all that. But my friend wanted to celebrate. So we had some tequila, played a little, little craps. Then I had some like seafood, some oysters, had a little more tequila, play a little blackjack and I went home. And like it was funny because I woke up this morning at like 5:30 and I wanted to like feel guilty, but I'm like, I literally have nothing to feel guilty about. It was like, I like, like didn't over drink, I didn't like over gamble. I just had fun and then woke up. But I do find it funny how there's those times where like I have that habit of like, that shame habit from back in the day to where like I wake up and like want to feel like, you know, mad at myself and shameful. And I remember like, there's literally no reason. But I just makes me think about other people who sometimes have that same pattern of like, you know, you like, you go out and have a good time, but then you like, you want to beat yourself up. But then if you look at it objectively, there's like no reason why you should beat yourself up. So that's one thought I have because I think it's something that I've talked to other people too, where you want to. As entrepreneurs, we feel like we need to be productive all the time. So then if we go out and do something that we want to do or have fun or cut loose, there's that part where we just sort of immediately feel guilty and we want to make ourselves feel like crap about it. But really that's the toxic part, the going out. Occasionally. Obviously if I went out and did what I did yesterday, every day or even every week, I think that would be. I don't know. Every week maybe, but I don't. But the point is, if it was a consistent thing, then it was like a habit. Sure. But I think it rarely is. If you just go and have fun, you should never beat yourself up. And then the other part of it too is I think we get afraid of that it's going to become a habit. But is there actually evidence that that kind of behavior is going to become a habit or not? It's like if you just cut loose once every month or two or three, and then you don't cut loose again after that, is that really a habit? And like, you know. So kind of interesting thoughts here. I'm looking at the chat. Cause I know some people are mentioning, like, how they can really relate to that, you know. Yeah. Gurley said, I played one game of League of League last night after a good day of work and still felt guilty. Yeah, well, I said it happens for employee preneurs too. I mean, you're the COO at this point, so you're basically. I mean, you're like a boss, you know. Matthias said always feels like we're not doing enough. We have a basic negative feeling about ourselves. Um, yeah, exactly. Um, yeah. Nicholas Corvis said, yeah, my longtime friend has come back home for a bit and I feel it for sure. Super relatable. Interesting. But yeah, I agree. Right. I mean, I have the same anxiety about, like, over the next, like, week. I'm taking most of next week off. And then I'm honestly finding that this week I'm kind of. I was very sort of feeling like I want to take a lot more time off this week anyway. So I'm kind of working like half days. But I'm having so much guilt about that. Like, I had to pull myself away yesterday even when my friend was coming over, because I thought about it and there's like, no, I didn't have anything else I had to do. I'm like, I'm just trying to find ways to fill the void. Right. I'm like, I can find work for myself to do, I can find things for myself to do, but none of these things have to get done. And if my mind. And if I'm telling. If my mind is saying, hey, take a break, I'm just gonna Take a break. I go back to this all the time. The paradoxical nature of downtime. And it's actually a really good burnout mitigation strategy. Cause I'm like, if I just sort of start taking it easier for this week and next week and honestly, even the week after Christmas, we're gonna do my copy starter feedback for Copy Starter's taking two weeks off. But like until then, then. And you know, I'm gonna do like other things I have to get. Like other things I have to get done. Then I'm gonna read books. I bought a whole bunch of books. I'll show you guys. Cause this is my show. I go, fuck, I'm getting from my computer, but show you guys a bunch of my books I bought. Show you guys my haul right here. You can hear my voice like the voice of God. Like a master at rejecting do. Let's do it back. Back. You guys want to see my Amazon haul? I would take you with me, but it was on my computer. So I bought one called. Basically all that I'm looking at for the next couple weeks is I'm looking at trends and things that I think are going to be not just for 2021, but the years to come. So I got a book called the future is faster than you think. How converging technologies are transforming business industries in our lives. It's by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, who are both kind of futurists. So this one looks super interesting. I got another one on that motif or theme called how to see what others miss and predict the future. Sorry, non obvious Megatrends. Which looks super interesting to me too because I love the idea of big trends that we all miss. The reason this all came about, by the way, is because I was looking at Roblox. I'm not sure if any of you have heard of Roblox or not. R O B L O X. It's like a gaming platform. So what's funny is I think half the people here are big, obviously, and half of people have never heard of it before. But it's like a gaming platform. They have 150 million active users. They did about 500 million plus in revenue, I think, like last year or last quarter, I forget which one it was. Their last investment round was from Anderson Horowitz that valued them at $4 billion. And they were going to do an IPO in 2020, but they moved it to 2021. So I kept seeing articles about it. In fact, they just poached this guy from Google who's like a kid genius employee. And it's like something crazy. Like half of all kids have played Roblox recently. And so I actually created like an account, went on and started playing one of the games on there called Adopt Me. And I wanted to see just what it was like. And it was so easy. I set up my account and I was playing to research and it was like 30 minutes later. And I'm just going through Adopt Me, going through this magical world and there's kids on dinosaurs and there's like the chat is a bunch of weird acronyms in gibberish. I had no idea. But I'm like, holy shit. This entire world exists. And frankly, it's probably gonna get bigger and bigger. And I think about that, plus I think about virtual reality and I think about the convergence of those things. I just think there's a lot going on there. So I was like, man, I should really look at what other big things are gonna happen with virtual reality, with trends. How are they gonna converge and how does that affect me? Marketing, entrepreneurship and life in general. And then because of all that, I was like, I started messing with Roblox. I'm totally gonna buy it, the IPO when it comes out. But also I was like, let me start reading about stuff. So non obvious Megatrends. Then I saw that I love just the Amazon recommended stuff. So I got the big nine, Amazon, Facebook, Tencent, all these different things. How the tech tents and their thinking machines could warp humanity. Because I find that to be really interesting. I grabbed another book called Digital Transformation. Survive and Thrive in an Era of Mass Extinction. Which frankly sounds kind of scary, but at the same time, yeah, it's got like a endorsements from Eric Schmidt from Google and Charles Schwab and Gary Kasparov and a lot of interesting people. This is a book infomercial. Luffy said, yep, exactly what it is. 2030. How today's biggest trends will couple or collide and reshape the future of everything. This one's not a trend one, but hooked. I don't know if people have heard of this one, but basically this guy, he wrote a second book called Indistractible. I actually read Indistractible Indistractable first. But basically this guy's the one who figured out how to make tech super addictive and addicting. And then like. And it was this book that was the blueprint. So I was curious. I'm like, I wanted to read it, so I ordered that one. Then he felt really bad and wrote a book about how to not be addicted to, like, tech. So it's kind of funny, but I got a book called A Road Without Work because as a person who teaches about freelancing and coaching and help people how to, like, kind of create their own sort of financial path, you know, and escape the cave, I'm like, I'd be curious. The future work's gonna change dramatically, right? Like, I mean, like, there's universal basic income is probably gonna happen in the next, like, 20 or 30 years. People won't have to work, like, but I guess scary actually, in a way, because it leads to a weird dystopian future. But I'm like, I wanna read about the trends. And then this book was just my recommended things called Money for Nothing. The scientists, fraudsters and corrupt politicians who reinvented money panicked a nation and made the road rich. It's basically the history of the financial system, the modern financial system. So I'm pumped. So for the next couple of weeks, I'm just going to read a bunch of those books and get ideas and let my diffuse brain go to work. And I think it'll actually lead to all kinds of really good marketing ideas and all that kind of stuff. Braden asked if I'm speed reading maybe some of them. I'm not sure yet. I think it'll depend on the book and the density of it. This one about money for nothing, I probably won't. It's more like a history kind of biography and I don't like to speed read those as much. But some of the books about, like, future trends and stuff, I probably will speed read more. Yes. So that's a long rant that kind of like an interesting thing on. Going from like, you know, tequila last night to like, my reading plans for the next few weeks. But, you know, figured it was interesting. Wanted to share that the book. Rest is great by Alex. Suiting Kim, paying for resting. Cool. And James Weiss, do you take notes on books or just reread and retain? Yeah, I do take notes, actually. So not always, but I'll kind of highlight, underline, and then I have to go back and type up the notes sometimes. And then I will also, like, write down ideas. So I basically have two notebooks at all times with me. So one is like my daily scratch paper notebook and then the other one is sort of like my big idea notebook. I kind of keep them separate so that if I have big ideas, I can just write those down in a separate notebook and they don't get, like, muddled with like, that. And then Me like scratch writing about like notes about something on them. But yeah, I love to read. So when one your book interesting, you should check out how to take smart notes. You have to look at that James for sure. Ed Ray, are you reading anything right now? Are you. Are you much of a reader?

I used to be very much of a reader. I took a break for quite a few months. Right now I haven't been reading as much. I just started reading what's it called, the email client horde book from Ben Settle. Just because like that's something I'm working on now, but I'm also reading. I think it's called the Screenwriter's Guide to Tribulations. That sounds cool by. I mean the author says Dr. Henry Jones, but I think Ron lynch wrote it. Yeah, I've been reading that. That's been very fascinating. It talks all about how basically the Bibles, like you know, the Torah, like the Jewish Bible, the Christian Bible and then the. Oh, I don't know what the Islamic Bible is. Holy crap, it's blanking me right now.

Quran.

The Quran. Thank you. The Quran. So the Quran, Torah and the Christian Bible, they basically predicted what's happening right now. Like the coronavirus, Trump, like Covid, everything.

Yeah, Ron shared some of that, his thoughts on that with me when I was with him in person. It was pretty, pretty wild.

Dude, Ron's insane. Like he's such a cool guy.

He is. He's an awesome guy. Cool dude. Yeah. One other note by the way too. I want to on the diffuse thinking and reading and all that. I mean I just like, even the mornings, like I want to come back and I finished like a big letter last week and so I've got some more stuff to write, but I kind of haven't writing this morning or this week as much. In the mornings. Yeah, Homo deuce is dope. But I think feed even like I go 21 lessons for the 21st century by the same author, Yuval Noah Harari. But they're both dope. But yeah, so I'm like looking at trends and then you get cool ideas. Like one cool idea. I just wanted to share. I was gonna write my daily email on this and then honestly I didn't have time basically. But like my PR people were asking about. They're looking for things in the news all the time, right. Like trending topics and I can come in as an expert and talk about them. So. So they're talking about marketing for like the COVID 19 vaccine and kind of like thoughts on it. So then I Was like looking at a bunch of the stuff of like the marketing efforts that are going on right now. And it's kind of funny a couple of things that are funny. One is like the catchphrases and like slogans that they're choosing like Pfizer and Moderna. And they're like, catchphrases are like, it's like a science will win. Like, you know, like science is great. And you're like, okay, like what kind of like catchphrase is that for like an average person who just has like a, like, you know, like they don't care about science. They care about going back to normal. They care about, you know, their business reopening. They care about being able to see their grandparents or their parents about worrying about getting them sick. So I'm like, damn, like they really are off the mark there. But the more interesting thing to me was like looking at some data that showed like an ABC poll, it was like 80% of Americans say that they're like they'll do the vaccine, but only it was like 50% so say they'll do it like in a hurry or like soon. So I was like, man, you know, the thing there is like if you have 80% of the population gets vaccinated, right? Then that creates enough immunity that the virus goes away and you've got enough people who are like, yeah, I'm in. So the problem is not like acceptance of the vaccine. There's anti vaxxers out there, sure. But like the problem is not with them. It's more about getting people to do it in a hurry because like the fast people do it. Then I think about this purely, I'm not. This is like if you're anti vaxx, whatever, but like this is purely from perspective of like solving a problem, right? And I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. But I'm like, damn. You know what? Really like this entire thing is just like it's like a direct response problem and then it's like a conversion problem because all it is is like you're getting. You want people to respond to your like vaccine advertisements and respond by going to get vaccinated and basically you're trying to convert them from non vaccinated to vaccinated and like you can do it through marketing. And I thought that was a really interesting kind of takeaway because I'm like, you know, basically like taking direct response elements and principles that we talk about or that I know, like you could just apply that to exactly what they're doing. So like emotional storytelling. Answering what's in it for me? Right. Leading with emotion first and logic second. Like, there's all these different things you've been doing in your marketing, and if you're like a big pharma company or vaccine company, that then could, you know, could increase the likelihood of a conversion on the first try. Because I think my direct response is like, when somebody goes to, like, your sales page, we want them to try and convert the first time, and then we retarget them after. I was like, yeah, it's just an interesting way of looking at things. The idea that, like, basically even saying, like, getting people vaccinated is like a conversion problem and a direct response. I don't know. Does that make sense? Is that interesting? Jamal thinks it's interesting. Thanks, Jamal. On Facebook Live, I think it's interesting. Thanks, man.

I got you, buddy. I got you, buddy.

Like, here's one more strategy for it real quick. And then we're take questions. Another book on my desk right now is a classic influence. Go with Robert Cialdini. And he talks about was it commitment and consistency, Right. And how people, once you commit to something, you want to look, like, consistent so you'll follow through. And there's the example for those of you who have read influence about how they did the study in California, in a California neighborhood in the 1960s, where they basically had a volunteer go to, like, door to door and ask people to put this giant billboard in their front yard that said, drive carefully. And they showed, like, they showed them a picture of what it looked like, and it was a picture of this really nice house, of this giant, ugly billboard with, like, awful lettering blocking their entire view. And so when they went around the California neighborhood and asked people if they would do that, like, 86% roughly were like, no, it was 83%, I think, were like, no, I wouldn't do that. Right. Which makes sense. But then, like, there was a subset of that data where 76% of people said, yes, I'll do it, which is, like, very hard to understand. Why 76% of people will be like, you can ruin the value of my home and put this ugly billboard that's going to, like, block my view. Like, why did it happen? Well, it happened because two weeks prior to that, they'd had another volunteer go around and ask people to display a 3 inch little card or placard that said drive safe at their house. And people said, everyone said yeah to that because it was like three inches. And they're like, all right, sure. What they found is by just those people making that little small commitment for that 3 inch car. Those same people then were dramatically more likely to say yes to this giant billboard being placed in their VR2. When you think about that principle that you're like, okay, well how could that apply to like the COVID vaccine? Well, you could do something where you get a campaign where like, hey, like, you know, basically ask people to think about somebody in their life who they think could benefit from the vaccine. So like an elderly parent or grandparent or a friend with an autoimmune issue or whatever it is and be like, you know, like a campaign that gets people to commit to like telling one person, encouraging one person, you love to get the vaccine, because if you will commit to telling one person to get vaccinated, then they're gonna be way more likely to get vaccinated as well. Because they made the commitment, they've told somebody else to do it. So now they want to look consistent. And when the opportunity comes for them to get vaccinated, they're much more likely to actually get the vaccine too. So just another interesting idea or thought about how these marketing principles can be applied to really big societal things. And again, this is regardless if you're pro vax or anti vaxx or whatever. And that's just one small example. So I don't know, interesting food for thought for everybody. Any other thing you want to add to that? It's cool. I'm seeing some fascinating wild stuff.

Love it.

Wild, cool, cool. Love that you guys love it. Good stuff to share. Today.

I got another dude, that was killer.

Cool. Thanks, man. That's because I'm giving myself the opportunity to read books and think and research and good ideas come up. Right? It's kind of cool. And then that all gets applied to business. That's why you have to let yourself have some downtime and diffuse thinking time and sort of not just be like, I have to be doing XYZ and if I'm not doing those things, I'm a total piece of shit. It's like, you gotta give yourself time to just sort of chill and, you know, think about life. So cool. Let's answer. Let's answer some questions. I don't know why not. Who we got? What's going on? Let's have a look here.

Would you? Oh, there we go. Okay, cool. So I need to co host first.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, that seems fair.

We did so good last time.

I know. Thank God. Because my Internet, you know, I figured out what was wrong with my Internet, but I'm kind of embarrassed to share. I don't know if I should share or not.

You totally should.

So we have like a WI FI extender in like Laura's office on the other side of the house. And I literally connected to it one time around Halloween when I was shooting like a video outside and like using my computer like as like a teleprompter. And now my computer keeps wanting to connect to that one. So like, I just basically was on the wrong WI FI network and I didn't double check it. And that's why I was so happy because like I'm. It's. If you're in that area, then it's great. But in my office, like, but it's so stupid. I don't know why my computer defaults to that one now. I literally. I've been on my normal home WI FI router for like, you know, three years now. And I connected the other one one time and now my computer is like just in love with the one that has like the weak signal and like tries to auto connect to that. It's like the most annoying. I have to go. Forget network or something like that. I know, I know, I know. Re sharp. I know.

The heart wants what the heart wants, bro. The router, he wants to go the distance, man. She's worth it.

Yeah. Oh man.

Yo.

Okay.

You think that's bad, bro? Frickin. Back when I used to live in my parents place, I would be on like zoom calls with clients and whenever my parents turned on the microwave, my wifi would shit the bed.

Really? That's so funny.

Yeah. But the worst thing is my dad cooks everything in the microwave and so does my sister and my mom. So like I'll be on like a client call and then like, like trying to close somebody to pay me, you know, 3, 5K, whatever it is to do some shit for them. And they like the WI FI would just shit to bed for a solid like 20 minutes because like they would put in the microwave for like 30 seconds and then take it out and then eat it or whatever and then like put something else in like for like five minutes, like noodle soup or some shit, like, like the Mr. Noodle stuff. And then like my dad would reheat his coffee afterward and then he would take potatoes and then poke holes in them and then put them in the microwave and then bake them that way for like five minutes again and then eat that. No, that's how my dad cooks food. So yeah, yeah, cook food. And then my sister would and my mom would make their oatmeal in the fucking thing. And I was like, I'm not getting paid today. Okay, I'm fine with that. That's fine. Whatever. Whatever. That's fine.

That's hilarious. So there's a little.

It's a little thing. And no, Santiago, that does not mean I'm the black sheep of the family who knows how to cook. I'm not, like, good at cooking. Yeah, no, I'm good at eating, though.

That's good. That's important. Yeah. If you only be good at one, it's probably better to be good at eating, I suppose.

Exactly. Also, my lie. That means I do not use microwaves. I fucking hate microwaves. I refuse to use them for a variety of reasons. Anyway, so, anyways. Yeah. About researches, research when it comes to restaurants.

Okay, Atia, you're having a saga with these damn restaurant owners. Yeah, man. Exactly, man. This is the second episode. I was just wondering, man, because, like.

Every copywriting course that I taken, they.

Basically always make examples with coaching, some.

Kind of coaching when it comes to research.

So, I don't know, personal trainers or mental coaches and, you know, I get it. Like, when it comes to, for example, weight loss, it's kind of intuitive to.

Understand what the frustrations are or the.

Fears, ambitions, and dreams. Like, obviously, like, the frustrations are, oh, I come not attractive to the opposite sex, or I don't feel healthy, and so on and so forth. And the dreams are the opposite.

But, you know, when it comes to restaurants. Right.

It's hard to apply those four forces because, I mean, what can be the frustration? If you're talking about veggie burgers, I mean, or fears, you know, like, you're really. I don't think you can play on that that much. Am I wrong? Are you talking to the consumer? Like, the customer of the restaurant? Are you talking to the restaurant owner? The consumer, the customer. So I'm writing on behalf of the restaurant to them. Yeah. I look at, like. I mean, I think there's, like. There's, like, so many food forums and, like, food blogs and cooking blogs and things like that. I mean, I would mostly focus on the research there. I mean, if there's any fears, it's like, little. I mean, they're not ones I would necessarily bring up to the customer. Like, there's the fear that the kitchen's not. Well, you know, the kitchen's not clean, or that, you know, the ingredients are cheap, or that there's a bunch of added, like, additives and fillers and Crap like, you know, like being added to, like, the entree. So I think, you know, you probably could find some interesting stuff there around ferrostope by doing research and then, you know, doing that. Like, there's. Because you could be like, you know, hey, here's how we keep our kitchens clean. Right? And do an email about that and like, basically like, hey, you ever thought about, like, seeing the kitchen of your favorite restaurant or restaurant you like, and it kind of creeps you out. Like, us too. And because of that, we really freak out about keeping our kitchen pristine. And then like, you know, like surgical, like, levels of clean. Like, and here's what we do. And like, you know, that could be an interesting email. And that kind of is based around fear. So. But I would look at, yeah, like, kind of people complaining about restaurants, complaining about bad experiences there. And then usually the stuff they complain about are probably gonna be related to fears that other people have as well.

I see.

Yeah. That's interesting. Never thought about it actually. So. Yeah. Although I guess still it's not really. I mean, I don't know, it's very rare, you know, like, I mean, what would you do? You go on TripAdvisor or something and look at the negative reviews of certain restaurants? I mean, yeah, I go to like, like Yelp, like Google, like, reviews, open table reviews and like, look at the 1 star reviews and 5 star reviews and people, you know, like, people are way more motivated to leave one star reviews and five star reviews. Right. Like, I'm. I'm guilty of this. I try to be not, but it's like I have a great experience and like, that was a great experience. And then I'll tell my friends or I'll leave a big tip or something, but I don't go leave a review. But then, like, you know, if I have a bad, really, really, really bad experience and I'm like, one star. Here's like my novel. Like Warren, I'm like, I'm like Warren piecing that shit. You know what I mean? I'm like telling every single thing that happened. So I think that that's a good place to start. Yes. Okay. All right, thank you. Thank you very much. All right, cool. Happy to help, man. On the Facebook Live side, hey, Brad Tannenbaum. Hey, Brandon Frederickson. What's up? What's up?

Next up, we have Mirai about a book recommendation for her from you, Stefan.

Ooh. Hey, Melai.

Hey.

I didn't even want to talk. I just wanted a book recommendation. But it's so good to Talk to you. I miss you. I miss you, too. I miss your Vegas house. I know. I mean, I'm at it. It's great. I know you're supposed to be over here by me and you're back over there. I know we're going back Saturday, but yeah, nice. For eight days and then come back here, but nice. Yeah. What kind of book recommendations you looking for? I don't know. Just, you know, I feel like I'm entering a new phase of my life here, and as, you know. So I felt like I need to read some shit and like, you might have some good recommendations based on, you know, the different things that you went through in your life. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and so for people who don't know, Melai, I mean, a quick one. Malai. I hired Malai in 2015 as a customer service representative for my company. And then Malai transitioned into various roles and then basically helped run, like, affiliate stuff from.

And you did.

I don't know. You did, like, a ton of different stuff for me. So many things. Then when I started, like, an agency, Yamalai transitioned over to that with me and helped me run that. And then when I was partnered with a friend in another supplement company, we brought Malaya over for that, and then she's basically turned into the COO and is crushing it, which is fucking awesome. So to start from customer service in 2015 to the COO of a $20 million company or whatever, it is not the worst kind of neat. That's why I love this book. But as you transition. Yeah. I think that books I'd be looking at from your perspective and from an operational. I mean, there's a lot of, like, the goodies. Like, the goodies, but the classics, you know, Like, I really like the 21 irrefutable laws of Leadership. I can't remember if I made you read that or not back in the day. I know I brought it up.

I don't think you did.

Yeah, I really like that. I think you've gotta go through the first. Go through the first couple of laws, and it can feel like there's sort of some, like, platitudes and stuff, and you're like. But then when you really practice. I did that for you. Like, when we were with our supplement company and you and. And Blake, who's one of our early employees, who now is having a lot of success elsewhere. And Melia and Blake hated each other for a period of time, which is funny because we love each other now still. I know there was a time I got Like, a phone call. I remember I went to Coachella. I took time off for the first time, and I got these worried slack messages from someone else. Well, I and Blake are in the hallway of the Regis co working space, like, screaming at each other. And, like, it wasn't even just screaming at each other. It was like, they're cussing each other out. It's so bad. Yeah. And I flew back, and I was, like, so pissed at both of you. But I read, like, the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, and one of the laws that really resonated for me was this idea of the law of the inner circle, like, having this inner circle of people that you trust to get things done. And then for me, that helped me to. Then to delegate stuff to you and other team members and to help be trusting and not come in. Because once I started doing that, I found I can't always come in and make decisions. I need to empower people on my team to make decisions. Like, you might. And like, I. And then I would do that, and you and the team would start talking about solutions, and I'd want to come in and be like, oh, no, like. Like, I do it this way. But I had to force myself not to do that. And then I found that, like, 90% of the time, you all came, like, you know, you all basically came to the same decision I would have made anyway. And then, like, 8% of the other time, you came to a different, you know, kind of conclusion, but it still worked ineffective. And maybe like, 2% of the time it was something that, like, wasn't the best decision. But, like, that suddenly freed and empowered me so much. And so that book alone, like, really just, you know, helped me significantly. So that's one I would really look at reading. Awesome. Yeah, I'm trying to say, I mean, I was a billion. I love them, but I just need to, like, go to your Vegas house and rent some books. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at my bookcase right now and, like, just so turned on by it. Love all my books, but, yeah, start there, I think. Okay, cool. Thanks, Stefan.

All right.

Awesome. Thank you, Malai. Of course.

Cool. Okay, next up, we have Heath about creating your own product.

Nice. What's up, Heath?

What's up, man?

How are you?

Good.

How you doing? I'm doing well. So one of the bullets in the email was creating your own product and crushing it as an offer owner. And I was just, you know, I run my own seven figure e commerce brands now, but it's always been like physical products. So I import from China and have a team here that self fulfills and stuff. Right. I want to transition to running some info product offers and things like that. I have a couple doctors that want me to write sales letters for them. And so I was just curious, is there any resources in rnbc? If not, what do you recommend? Who do you recommend that I follow? What should you do? What should you avoid? Things like that? Yeah, I don't have anything really specific about being like an info product offer owner in rnbc. My friend Cody Bram is actually working on a course. It's called like, I think it's going like supplement millionaire. So it's about physical stuff but it is like a really cool kind of like guide of all the things that go wrong when starting a supplement business and how to essentially do that. And I think that would be valuable even for people who are going to do info products. But I would look at leveraging rnbc, the Facebook group also. Justin7 copy. I think you can honestly just reach out to different info products offer owners and ask them to pick their brain. Ask them to kind of just like have like a call. And I think a lot of them would like I'm thinking an RBC method like Brian Castagina is in there and he's a really successful info product owner and copywriter. But there's a lot of others as well. So that would be the biggest thing I would look at I think as far as like the do's or don'ts or pitfalls or things of that nature. I mean there's not a ton. I mean there is, but it's the same stuff as of anything really. It's like getting traffic, like getting affiliates to drive traffic. So. So trying to get your average order value up as high as you can because the higher your AOV is, the higher the CPA you can pay. I think generally with info products I would be looking to break even on the front end and then make money on the back end by monetizing my email list by emailing customers and selling them more stuff like whether it's your own physical products or as an affiliate. I think with physical product companies you have much more of a chance to kind of be profitable on day zero. But with info products it's a lot harder. So I'd be looking more at how to just get enough. You can do like 1000 buyers a day and do that sustainably for whatever like six months, right. That's like 180,000 buyers on a list. That list is worth two to five million dollars a year to you, probably at least for the next year. So that's the way. And that pretty much at all profit. So that can be one of my biggest focuses. Cool, thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah, man, my pleasure. By the way, I know there's someone in the chat, Tanya, who isn't exactly sure how she got here and what she's doing. It looks like I'm kind of half seeing it. But Tanya, I don't know how you got here either, but you know, thanks for being here.

Glad to have you.

Yeah.

So she got an email from you? Yeah, so she was asking like, what.

What we do business?

And I was like a little confused because I'm like, I'm not really sure how somebody can be on the show and not know at least what you do if they come from your email list. But hey, the more the merrier, you know. That's awesome.

They might be new to my email list and this is one of the first emails and she decided to come.

Ah, that's awesome.

Turns out I do get. I get about 20 to 30 new people on my list every day, sometimes more.

Really? Wow, Stefan, look at you go.

Yeah.

Big boy. Big boy.

Okay, I know. Big boy.

All right, so next up, we have a question from Nicholas about hiring.

Sweet. Nicholas. What's up? Let's do it. Hey, Stefan, how you doing? Good, and you? Doing great. Cool. Yeah. So I run a social media marketing agency. It's going really, really well. I help a lot of different people, mainly helping people that have info products. So that last question, because I want to do my own product, after helping so many people with their stuff, it's like I want to do my own. So that last question was cool. But right now, in order to keep scaling this current business, I've gotten to the point where I'm just getting burned out with the amount of work that I do hiring. I have two people right now. They're doing well, but I just am looking for any insight on just being a good leader. Who do I need to hire? Not who, just how. How to do it right. And how to manage them correctly in order to keep growing. Yeah, man, that's a great question. And the common question, I mean, so who are the two? What roles do the two people have who you've hired so far? Yeah, so one of them is just kind of like manager. She just helps like organize my day, organize the flood of emails that I get, just kind of do like daily ads, check ins for me, just, just kind of overseas stuff. And then the other guy that I've hired, he's more of like. I guess the best way to describe him is like a junior ads guy. So I'm training. He doesn't really know too much about Facebook ads and media buying in general, but I'm training him up slowly but surely. And he's gonna actually help, like fully manage the accounts or when I get a new account, he'll be able to go in there himself and deploy new copy if he needs to cut ads, scale ads, do all that fun stuff that I know how to do. Yeah, makes sense. And so within the agency right now, a lot of you are doing kind of like doing the media buying for these info project owners, so like, you know, driving traffic and stuff like that for them. Yeah, a lot of what I'm doing is just managing everything, writing copy, doing the audience research, doing the fancy Facebook tricks to make sure things scale correctly and if they're not doing well, cut them and how to come back from it.

And.

And then another big piece of it is just calls with clients. Like, a lot of my clients want to have calls with me throughout the week, optimize and scale. And I've definitely cut back a lot since the past few months. But that's probably one of the biggest things that take up my time, is they just want to talk to me. And I've told them, like, hey, I can. Sure, we can talk, that's great. But I mean, I'd rather spend time just making you more money. You know, talking isn't necessarily going to make you money. I mean, sure, it's totally fine to talk sometimes, but. Yeah, those are the two things. Yeah, it makes sense. That's pretty common too. I mean, as far as the way to get on the phone with you, I think what you have to do, though, I mean, one of the things would be getting that client success manager who's like their liaison and who is the person they do talk to. I mean, that person schedules like a weekly or bi weekly call as a cadence. I think when you do that, you'll get some resistance from some of your clients early on. Um, but I think you have to do that because otherwise, like, you know, that's the thing, right? Cause you can't be trading. It's not. You're not even trading time for money. You're trading time and not making money. So it's like the worst, right? Cause, like, it's one thing to trade time for money, which is cool, but like, you want to get away from that, which is why you start an agency. But now it's like you're just trading time, not for money. And so for anyone new, you bring on, I think having like a dedicated client success manager, somebody whose job is to basically take them through like an onboarding process with their SOPs, but then also be like again having a cadence and a regular sort of call. I think that's a really important move as far as hiring goes in general. I guess this is the platitude of hire slow and fire fast. And I do think that that's pretty accurate. Doing personality tests is really helpful, like doing the 16 personalities test or something like that to where you can look at like the kind of like the makeup of like who they are.

Right?

Because I think by doing that you can see are you hiring somebody who's got the exact same personality as you or they have, you know, you're hiring for like a client success manager and they're like super introverted and like turbulent. You're like, eh, I don't know, is that the right role? You know, you can go deeper with that. But things of that nature, looking at personality profiles and things like that can really help too. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And if, if you can with that last question, like in with one of your emails you recently sent out with the like shiny object syndrome is me trying to start like do my own product. Do you think that's like good to do or not? Because like with so many people that I help with info products, like gosh, I want to do my own info product because I know how to do it, you know, but I don't know if I should take my focus away from everything else or how to choose a product. Yeah, no, I. It's up to you what you want to do, but probably you shouldn't do it. Probably if you like, if you like the agency and you really want to grow and scale it. I mean I think about like I've been, I'm doing a bunch of one on one stuff with a guy named like Alex Hermosi, which some of you guys might know who that is. And he basically. Yeah, so he basically hired me to like help him, teach him like RBC kind of private one on one. So he just had a call this morning too. But if you look at Alex is the Guy built a $100 million agency essentially by doing lead gen for gyms and then now he's helping all these people to do 250 to a million dollars plus per month as agency owners. I'm not sure where you're at revenue wise, but probably there's a lot further you could go. You know what I mean? So if you enjoy that aspect of it and the agency is going well now and you're not overly stressed, um, then I would just stick with that if you, you know the like. Because otherwise, yeah, you're gonna get distracted and start doing the offer ownership, and you put resources into that and the agency's not gonna grow as much. Then you're feel like the agency is kind of like a burden, but you can't really stop doing it because that's what's bringing in the money, you know, I mean, there's just, like, a lot of tension there. Um, yeah. If you want to build that agency to where it is completely, like, automated and, like, you're like. It's so, like, all the SOPs are in place, the systems, the processes, and everything else. So it's so dialed in that you are not even, like, a part of it. Then you could do the info products then. But I would make it a goal to build the agency to be like that. If you want to, then go do other things. Otherwise, I would just focus on the agency. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I appreciate it. It means a lot. Happy to help.

Cool.

Bada bing, bada boom.

Do you want me to just answer what happened to Logan? Because I know Logan got upvoted. Girlen asked. This is gonna. I'm not gonna bring her on Live for this one, but I'll just answer really quickly. So for those of you who don't.

Know, like, Logan Paul, you mean?

No, you know, we mean Logan on my Netflix account. So basically, I logged into Netflix and I've got my Netflix account. And then Bobby Wilkinson, like, Chef Bobby and his wife Melissa have been on my Netflix account for like a year and a half or two years now because I got stay at their house for a summer when we first moved to Vegas. And so they have one. In fact, like, it was like, Bobby's birthday, and Melissa got him, like, a new, like, I don't know, like a new Kindle or tablet or something. And she literally messaged Laura, like, hey, do you guys change the password? Because I'm trying to get Bobby, like, get Netflix set up for Bobby. So they're on, which is fine. I knew that was on there. But then I logged in the other day, and there was, like, a Logan was on there too. And so girl is wondering. I don't know who the F. Logan is. So, you know, girly's asking the hard hitting and important questions of if Logan is still on my Netflix account. And the answer is, yes, Logan's still there. I don't know if you guys can see. Logan's got a little avatar right there. I have not removed Logan. I'll tell you guys what Logan's up to. Logan is primarily watching kids stuff and then lately a lot of Christmas kind of things here. But Logan is for sure, you know, probably like 14, maybe even like 12 or 10. So Logan's most recent watches include Liar Liar Vampire from Nickelodeon, A Babysitter's Guide to Monster Hunting, which is also a Nickelodeon thing. My Babysitter a Vampire. So apparently there's a theme kind of going on here.

My wife says it's Ed.

My kids 4D.

Okay, that's a good movie though. That's a good movie though.

Okay, Mr. Peabody and Sherman show Power Rangers Dino or something like that. Bunked Sharkboy and Lava Girl.

That's a great movie too. That's a really good movie.

All right, so basically we're saying is Logan's got pretty good taste here or.

What we're saying is Logan is Ed. That's what my life is saying.

He watched Casper, the Christina Richie version.

He's got taste. He's got taste too.

Yeah, Logan's solid. So, I mean, I think that knowing that Logan is probably like some like 12 year old, like semi hacker kid who just found some database of hacked passwords and you know, gone by Netflix, like, yeah, I hope Logan enjoys, you.

Know, make sure it's not just your friend's like, cousin who they like, you know, accidentally gave the password to, to be like, oh, can you help me set up my thing? And then they like, like, I could like, I don't know how old your friends are, but like, I don't know if I was a mischievous kid and you know, my grandma's like, hey, like, can you help me set up my Apple TV with Netflix? I'd be like, okay, what's your password? And then we'll set it up like, oh, there's space for one more. And then, you know, go in there.

You know, it's possible. But like, I was sort of into like, I wanted to be like a quasi like hacker when I was like, you know, 11, 12, 13 because it's a communist spy. I was like, growing up like, with like, you know, the Internet was just like, I mean, you know, here's me sounding old. Even though at the, you know, age of 35, I still feel like I'm like, basically Ed's age.

But I still can't get over the fact that you're 35. I thought, like, I always thought, you know, like, 30, 31, 32.

Make me feel young. You're.

You're a young man.

Like, I remember. Like, I remember, you know, when my dad brought home the Internet. Like, my dad brought home aol, and, like, I knew it was gonna happen. I remember being at school in Maryland before I moved to California in, like, third grade and talking with my friend Mike Herman and talking about, like, we're talking about what our screen names were gonna be, and I picked, like, this really stupid screen name, and he was like, what his was gonna be. And then, you know, my dad, like, plugged in. Like, literally, my dad brought home the Internet. Internet. We didn't have the Internet. And then we had it, which is like, anyone who's my age or older probably, like, totally, like, kind of knows what I'm talking about. But then for, like, people who are like, you know, I feel like today, kids now, they're like. It's hard to even imagine that that's a thing. It's like the Internet's sort of always been there and it's gotten better, right? But, like, I remember. Yeah, it's like my old timey shit. So with that being said, by the way, though, then I was on aol, so I was, like, trying to search for, like, boobs and stuff like that. But, like, it was like, the safe search was on. And then I realized it was like, Crawler or whatever you could get off aol. And I searched for boobs, and it was like, holy shit. Like, oh, my God. And then I saw some stuff, and I was like, I don't know, I might go back to the safe search because this is getting, you know, like, I'm 11 or 12. Like, this is a little too much for me.

But, bro, lucky. Lucky for you, man.

Like, yeah.

Jesus.

Yeah.

I did not have the same fate after searching that at a much younger age.

Stefan waiting 17 hours to load. I know. It's like. You know when it was like the. Like. Like, the line comes down like this. So you get the top of the boob, and then it's like a few minutes later, like, you know, get a little bit further down. Yeah, those are the. Those are the days.

Oh, my God.

There's no magic anymore. It's too easy. Too easy to see boobs these days, you know?

Yeah. Onlyfans, bro.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I gotta subscribe to yours. That I keep. Me.

Yeah, I know, dude. You keep you keep putting it off. Okay, so you tell me you're gonna buy my compliance course, then you don't do it, and you tell me you're gonna subscribe to my only fans, and then you don't do it. What? What? I'm running a discount right now for my only fans. Okay, bro? Thank you, Michael McGovern, for shouting that out. Okay, look, one booty pick a week. 11. 11amonth. Look, I keep it affordable for the. For the homies. I keep it affordable for the homies. Okay? I'll give you. I'll give you the. The classic IM pitch for why I lowered the rate. Because, look, I don't want price to be the reason why you can't enjoy yourself. You know? I don't want, you know, your dollar value to be between you and your happiness.

Okay, dude, I appreciate that. Sorry. Julia's, like, in here just dying laughing over.

Is that Julia?

Yeah.

Yo, what's up, Julia? How's it going? I'm very upset because Stefan is not. Has not yet subscribed to My Onlyfans, bro.

Well, here's the creepy thing. I do want to get back to questions in a second, but. So I didn't buy your compliance course, but I just paid you several thousand dollars to do it for me. So if I don't subscribe to your only fans, I don't know, like, you know, does have to, like, have to pay for, like, one night with Ed Ray. You know, where I come, and you just see this model for me the whole night. Is that a thing? You know, bikini pics? Do I get that?

Or how does that work, Bro, for a few grand, I'll do whatever you want.

Back to Q and A here. Okay.

I bet you. I bet you would hire me for, like, a lower, like, one night with ad rate and be like, yeah, sit here and do my Facebook compliance for me.

I mean, yeah, it's definitely what I would do. I would be like, you know those services where, like, creepy old men, like, hire, like, maids and, like, lingerie to clean, but then, like, they're really, like, trying to, like, you know, get with them. It's like, if I ever did that, I'd be like, dude, you missed a spot. They put a shirt on. I got this on my house clean. You know, it's similar. Same thing with, like, the Onlyfans stuff.

Hey, man, I've always wanted to be a pool boy. I think I could do pretty well with that.

You know what, man? There's still time, so. Okay, Luffy.

Luffy said Ed In a French maid costume.

I don't want that visual. I don't want that visual in my head.

Yeah, no, bro. Luffy, I'm sorry. No, I'm not. No, I have some self respect. Okay. Anyway, so Amon has a question about launching a GoFundMe.

Thanks.

What's up? Aman or Eamon?

Yeah, it's Eamon. Thank you. How you doing, Stefan?

Good, man.

Good, good. Yeah. So my question is basically. So I'm launching a GoFundMe and we're doing this for my brother. So I'm sure you're. You're probably not familiar, but he has a pretty rare disease called gauche type 3. And this year has been really difficult for people that are special needs. And so he's, he's non verbal autistic. And you know, being locked inside has been really difficult. So we want to do something special for him for Christmas and for next year. So could. Because this could be his last Christmas. He has a pretty rare disease that essentially. Well, I'll give you. I'll just give you the. It's hard to summarize, so I'll just give you the full story. So it's gaucher type 3. It's a neurological degenerative disease where every human has fatty tissue in their body called lipids. And he lacks an enzyme that breaks down those lipids. He lacks an enzyme called glucocerebrosidase. So they accumulate in his major organs and eventually they break down those organs. So he's. Over the past few years, he's developed like epilepsy and autism. He's lost his ability for walking, talking, eating things that I previously would take for granted. And so that's, that's also the reason that I ended up starting my agency in the past two years. And it's why I work very hard. But I'm not able to do the really magical things that I want to do for my family just yet. So for that reason, we're going to be launching a GoFundMe. And my question is, when you're writing and you're doing a NonProfit or a GoFundMe, would you recommend that the emotion you lead with is negative, where you're talking about how things have been devastating. You know, you think about those, the donations where they ask you to feed the starving kids in Africa and it shows these really like terrible pictures. Or do you believe that it would be just as powerful or more powerful to go positive and tell a story of triumph and victory, of conquering. So that's My question, dude, and I'm.

Sorry to hear that your brother's going through that. And I know how. I don't. I mean, I don't know from that perspective, but having, you know, had family challenges of health and stuff like that, you know, it sucks, but yeah, that's tough, dude. I mean, I want to believe that both can work. I really do. But I think if you look at it empirically, generally, like the more emotional heart, like, you know, gut wrenching type of stuff is going to do better. I think the biggest thing too is honestly to put it into. It's like, it's like, it's like your brother's story, but it's also getting people to imagine that it's their brother or their child or their son. You know what I mean? And so it's sort of like, you know, imagine, like, imagine like looking at, you know, your son or like, you know, some other young person in your life and thinking that this could be their last Christmas. You know what I mean? Like something like that as like a first line and like, you know, kind of talking about the story of your brother. And then I think you can, you can marry both for sure. I mean, I think you can have the inspirational side of it too. But I think talking about sort of like, you know, that's the story of, you know, your brother's name and like, sort of a little bit of the background. And then think about it. Think about if you were in his situation. Think about like, you know, again, like, make people think about it and like, and put themselves like, imagine that they're in your brother's shoes and like, you know, I mean, everyone's afraid. Not everyone. Most people are afraid of dying and afraid of death and afraid of losing their health and things like that. And like, they don't think about it most of the time because they're afraid of it. But when you force somebody to confront that or to put themselves in the shoes of somebody who's facing it, it freaks them the fuck out. But that's good, right? It also motivates them to want to like, actually, you know, take action. So I think if you do that stuff and then. And then sort of like. And then from there, like in the arc go to like the hope, like the triumph, I mean, like the inspiration, who he is, what he's doing, and the opportunity to like, you know, give him this moment, the special thing. Like, I think that's the way I would approach that also, obviously, like, send me the link once it's up because I'LL be happy to, like, contribute to that. But.

Yeah. Yeah.

Does that help? Does that make sense?

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is to write the story in almost first person from the reader's point of view, and just put them in the shoes instead of. Cause they may not care about my story, but they would care if it was their story.

That's how it sounds. So, like, imagine if this was your story and sort of tell them. Then you tell them the story of you or your brother, either. I mean, I think your brother. Right. But then, I mean, you as someone looking on this person you love and be like. And then ask them, can they relate? Can they think of that? Can they understand how painful that would be? You know, I mean, like, again, make them right. You can still tell his story, but then you're. You're basically taking them and telling them to put themselves in your shoes or your brother's shoes and really, you know, see themselves in there. And I think that's really, like, you know, that that's gonna be the most effective thing, I think, because if you tell his story, people like, oh, man, that sucks, but I just don't have the money. Right. But, like, if you tell this story that they see themselves in and it's like they're almost like, donating to save themselves. You know what I mean? Like, as weird as it sounds psychologically, so it just makes a big difference, I think.

Have you.

Are you and Justin Stefan talk copy, by the way?

Pardon?

Are you and Justin and Stefan talk copy, like the Facebook group?

I am.

Okay. Are you on Justin Goff's email list?

I am.

Okay, cool. So he has. I think he's shown some, like, emails or not emails, like sales letters, like, direct mail that he's written for nonprofits for raising donations for. I think it was a great. Great Dane.

Yeah.

Thank you. Fundraising letter for nonprofit for Great Danes. I think you could probably find a lot of inspiration from getting access to those letters. If you can't find it in the Facebook group, I definitely recommend you post and ask people for help.

Okay, excellent. Yeah, good suggestion. And other people in the chat too, for sure. Cool. Eamon, keep us posted. Dude.

Dude, thank you so much for your work.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

All right, next up, we have Max Yuria about his massive mental block.

What up, Max?

What's up, Stefan? What's up? How are you? Fine.

Good, good. Yeah, doing great. Better now that you're here. No, no, just kidding. Sorry.

Sorry.

But yeah, okay.

Thank you for answering Eamon's question. I was gonna Tell you, if you gave me the term beforehand, I was, please answer his question because it was super inspiring. So I hope goes well for you, Eamon. So after that I'm just gonna share a little bit of background behind the question, which is should I focus more on developing the relationship with a client or should I just, for example, try to give him value by providing copy but given charging for it if he likes it? Because as you may know or remember, a couple of weeks ago or a month ago, I used your free copy reach out technique and I sent some Facebook ads to a very well known celebrity and celebrity, now very well known Facebook expert here in Europe. So he really liked the copy and everything. He even gave me access to one of his courses in exchange for my copy because of the reciprocity, you know, and also gave me some, some insider access to his mastermind for a couple of days. But since that, I was wondering, should I focus on providing more free copy to him to develop the relationship? Even though that may position me as a cheap copywriter or an inexpert copywriter since I'm actually a beginner. I've just been doing this for six months and I haven't done some paid work for it, or should I write a huge bundle for him on whatever he needs it or sales letter for his mastermind, which he doesn't have, and price it or charge for it if he likes it? What would you do, for example?

Yeah, that's a good question. It's tough me not knowing a lot about him. You did the technique. He, you know, reciprocated, which is good. You've got a bit of a relationship going now. But he has. Right, but he hasn't, you know, asked you to. And when you did the technique, I mean, did you, did you kind of say, and by the way, if you like this, you know, I'm a copywriter and I'd love to write more literally.

Stefan, I literally copied your words and it worked fantastically. He told me, I really like you and I would, I would like to know your, your fees for future projects. So I told him, I told him the fees and I had some like, maybe it's a mental BS for me, but I told him like, I'll write a 20 pack Facebook ad for you for €1250. And I don't know if that was mental blocks for me or limiting beliefs because I have never charged for it before. And that's why a few weeks ago I also asked you, oh, do you think it's a lot of money if I charge €125 for a Facebook ad or something, right? So he actually liked the copy, told me, I'm impressed by your copy, which actually boosted my confidence a little bit, because if it wasn't for that, I would have charged just, like, €500. So just what would you do? Would you write copy and tell him, hey, hey, do you like it? If you like it, just pay me this. And if you don't, that's perfectly fine. We'll keep working together and maybe tell me some projects you're working on to see if I can provide some value.

I don't know. I think it was me. I tried to keep the relationship up and going. Obviously, I would consider, you know, putting, like, every now and then, like, you do, like, hey, like, you know, by the way, I was checking this out and saw, like, you know, you're running this ad and thought it was cool. Like, here's a variant that I thought you could test. Like, you get through that stuff every now and then. But once you've done it once, I don't like the keep, you know, continue to do it for free to build a relationship. To me, I mean, it's probably not a great idea. Again, I don't know enough about this. Like, you know, like, if you, like, say there's a completely, like, obviously, like, weird hypothetical example, you did like, Jeff Bezos. And Jeff Bezos is like, hey, I like that. You know, hey, you check out, like, you know, some whatever, and you're like, oh, cool. And then, like, you know, then you really want to get that guy's inner circle, right? Like, then I'm like, maybe you keep doing that a bit. And I think that can have. But there is. The danger is to your point, and you're smart enough to recognize it, is that you don't want. You don't want them to start associating you with, like, free copy, where it's like, this is great. This guy just keeps giving me, like, free stuff. Like, you know, awesome. But, you know, at the same time, you know, the relationship is valuable. You have an in right there. I'm kind of a little torn, right? Like, I want to know what you think. I feel like I just gonna nail this. This answer.

Well, it kind of depends on who they are and, like, how big they are. If you're just dealing with some Joe Schmo, like, then whatever.

Like, you feature on, like, Forbes marketing, 30 under 30. So kind of like Sam Ovens sort.

Of say, okay, so I'm gonna give you some context, frankly, that doesn't usually mean much. It just means that they paid for it straight up. I mean, obviously there's, there's exceptions, but a lot of the time that kind of publication is paid for. I know seven's wincing, but 30 under.

30, I don't think you pay for that. But you have PR people help you. If you pay for it indirectly, I guess, fine. You know, same reason I got featured in Forbes and Inc. And Business Insider and all that. But it's like I didn't pay for the placements or anything like that. But. But you have a PR people help, but then you have to actually have. So I don't, I don't. There are. You can get like, you can straight up pay for Forbes features for sure. But that's the 30 under 30. If he's featured in the Forbes 30 under 30, he probably didn't pay for that. He's like legit.

That's cool.

Yeah, for sure.

Anyways. But it depends what you want out of this relationship with this person. Like if this is somebody who you want like a long term relationship with, not just as a client, but as a mentor, somebody that you want to work with for the long term and you really respect them and you want to really be like them and they're in a place that you want to be or you want to learn from, then maybe putting in, you know, working for free for quite a while would work really well. So let me, let me give you an example. I don't know if you guys remember Ron Lynch. He came on the show month or two ago and he was just kick ass, most insane guy. He's so smart, he's so interesting, got so much experience. If I was starting out from scratch, I would work for him for free for like, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 months. What? Because I worked for six months for free before I got my old job. But then sure, but I would definitely do that. If you're looking for like a long term mentorship, like be okay with working for free for a bit. Obviously don't let people take advantage of you. There's a lot of really shitty people out there who will take advantage of free services. So be very, very smart about who you give that to. But on the other hand, I don't want that to be an excuse for you not charging.

I get you so kind of like don't lose confidence in myself.

But totally the dude told you your copy is good. I mean, if they say that, that's probably means that they like you enough that they would pay you. So what's, what's your big, like, what would you say? Like your, your actual big block here.

Is like, mentally I'm just thinking like, because, you know, neediness is needy, is creepy, you know.

Sure.

So I'm not like in a need for money, right. Like, I'm your age, I live with my, with my family, with my mom here and she, we're fine with the money. So I don't have to go to sites like Upwork or something like that and find low paying, for example, jobs or even high impact, high paying jobs. But I can develop relationships with people that are better connected with me and can represent like a big, big added value in the future. Like with the connections he may have and the connections that I make, I may create with his mastermind or other integrants of his groups. Right. So that's the only thing I was kind of wondering because I was thinking if I charge for it because, you know, in the end we all have this like this erotic dream of, oh, I'm finally going to get paid for my first project, but am I undercharging for it? Will he think I'm an idiot or a cheap bastard? And will he just ignore me? Because he will just think, oh, this guy is so needy. I don't want to work with him, you know?

Okay, so what, what part of this interaction do you see as being needy?

Maybe that's just a mental block for me. But since I reached out to him, providing some free, like samples for him, and he hasn't asked me to work on any project yet, that may, that doesn't mean he's not gonna do it in the future. But if I was just thinking, okay, so if I write some copy for him and just ask for some money in exchange for it, I think that may be fine. But I just wanted like to be sure that's not gonna look like, or damage the relationship. Right. Kind of like for money. Hey, I did this, but if you like it, give it some. Give me some money, you know, so.

Yeah, so it sounds like to me. So has the dude tried the free copy that you made?

He's going to try it now because he was running some Black Friday campaign and he just finished.

Mm.

So I was just waiting for the results. And I know that if he has the results and they are good, it's way easier for him to ask me to do a project. Right.

Yeah. Okay. So this becomes very simple to me. It's just you wait for the results to come back and then when he Goes, hey, you know, the results were A, B, and C. Then you charge them for, you know, the next batch of stuff.

Okay, cool. And if the results are shit, I just write some copy for him and send it for him to test. And if he likes it, just.

Well, if the results. If the results are shit, do you think he's gonna want you to write for him again?

True.

So then you just move on. You learn from it. Move on. So either way, you win.

Yeah, Just have that abundance mindset and not be, not be scarce. Yeah. That's so cool. This is like having a private mentorship with you guys. You're amazing. Thank you.

You got it, man.

Yeah.

Ed, Ray, good job. Good job there, man. Thank you. That was good. I was like. I was kind of struggling, but I like that. I like that to show, too. It's like, if I don't have the right answer, rather than just sort of pretend, I'm like, ah, maybe Ed knows and you didn't know. We agree.

You'd be surprised. Like, no, when people ask these questions, like, they don't ask for my opinion for the most. Most of the time. So I just, like, go, okay, because of my show. But like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It is your show.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay, cool. But I always got something. I usually got something to share.

Okay.

Question here from Devam Devim about how to approach editing.

What's up, Devin? Hey, how you doing? I'm great. How are you doing? Doing awesome. Thank you, man. This year, I have to say, one of the best things that happened to me this year was coming across your stuff.

Tough.

No, thanks, man. Yeah, so my question was, after you go through the first draft, after you.

Write the first draft, how do you approach editing?

Like, what do you look at first?

How do you change stuff?

How do you think about this? Yeah, that's a good question. What I realized I do is, like, I don't like editing while writing a lot, but I will sometimes when I. As I'm writing, I'll actually. And I think Steve Gunn pointed this out to me for the first time. But, like, I will. Before I start writing, like, for a new session, I'll kind of read what I've written so far and I'll just tidy up and clean stuff as I'm going. So I'll take, like, you know, depending on how much it's been written, like, 10 to 30 minutes to sort of read through it, and I'll tighten up little sentences and to sort of tweak and then get to, like, the end of it, and then start writing from there. And the reason that I bring that up is because that actually helps me a lot to. It cuts down on my editing time pretty significantly because I'm sort of editing a little bit, like, at the beginning of each session. So I think that helps. Beyond that, what am I really looking for? I'm looking for, like, the flow. Like, all the transitions between different sections. People just tend to screw those up. I'm looking for simplicity. Is it, like. Is everything simple and easy to understand? Are there parts that are complicated? Are there parts that are repetitive? Are there parts that are boring or confusing or just unnecessary? And if there are, trying to clean that stuff up as well. I'm looking at my checklist for my copy outline, and I'm looking at maybe things like, for example, I love fascinations or curiosity bullets. And so I go through the lead of something I've written and realize that there's nothing. Any fascinations in there. Then I might be like, oh, I'm gonna try to add some of those in, and I'll add those in. Or if I'm like, oh, you know, I don't really spend a lot of time building up the price before I reveal what the price is or build up the value before I reveal what the price is. I'm like, oh, I should add that in. So I kind of. Then I go back and refer to my checklist and see if there's any. I can't do it honestly, like. Like, mentally without having to refer to the checklist because I know it in my head. But. But, yeah, those are the big things. But clarity, flow, stuff like that. Just easy. Like, if I'm. And honestly, one of the best things for editing is to read out loud. Like, if you can read your copy out loud. If you don't do that, it's so helpful because then you'll just find that you stumble over things that maybe, you know, it flowed. Great for you. But you're reading out loud, and you're like, what? And you stumble. And if you're stumbling, then other people will stumble. So those are the big things I do.

Yeah.

One last thing. Before you send a piece of copy over to a client, how do you judge if it's good enough? At a certain point, you just have to trust the process and let go. You know what I mean? Because you're never sure if it's good enough or not. And the thing you think about, and it helps with experience, but it's like, there's things that I've Written that I think are just the greatest thing ever. That didn't do that great or. They did. Okay. There's stuff that I wrote that I'm like, I don't know. And then like that, like crushes, you know, so. So really, if you follow the process, if you've got all the right elements in place, if you're, you know, like using the right structure, all those sorts of things, then, you know, the odds of it, like, you know, being at least like, you know, like good enough are much higher. And then there's definitely the odds that it can be, you know, better than good enough and be like, really great and excellent. Okay, thanks a lot, man.

Thanks a lot.

Yeah, happy to help.

Next up, got a question from James about how to sell clients courses.

What's up, James?

And I do have an answer for this, by the way.

Okay.

Hey.

Yeah, so thanks for taking this question. So I have a. We have a potential client that could be coming on and you know, they're code for the course. And I'm trying to. I'm wondering the best way to efficiently go through a course to gather up, you know, all like the features benefit Team Blade that we need to effectively sell the course. And I was wondering if I can get Yalls advice on that. Sweet. Ed, you want me. We can both go on fire. But you want to go first. And you go. Or you want to go first, Ed.

You go right ahead.

Okay.

What's your show?

It is my show, but, you know, it wouldn't be my show without you, Ed.

It would be, bro.

Come on. I don't know, man. The people are really. They're here for Ed, right, Stefan? You know, it's true. It's true, James. Yeah. So if I was to go through the course, I would look at. It's like video course. Is it video or is it written the course content? It'd be video, like a mix of both. It's like an average course. So I mean, I'd be going through. All I really do is I'd go through and look at like the kind of the contents, like the outline, like what are the things that are covered? And then I would like go through stuff and just basically try to pull like fascinations from every module or section. So it'd be like, you know, section two, how to xyz, you know, inside this you're going to discover blah, blah, blah, blah. Because like really a lot of selling courses is like fascinations and curiosity bullets, you know. But then I would tie it back to whatever the big promise is and like the unique mechanism of how the core. Because in the copy, you're like promising that they're going to get some kind of like, result or resolution from their pain point. And then you're basically telling them how the real reason they haven't gotten the result so far and how you've discovered a new way that will get them results when other things have failed. And the program is basically the embodiment of that new way. It shows them how to use the new way to get results for themselves. And because of that, you're going to tell them all about the course. And here's what's included. Like, logical, step by step curiosity and fascinations. And then, you know, tying it back to like, remember, like, this is why this fits with the unique mechanism I shared. This is why this will work when other things haven't. This is why this gets you, you know, to the solution that I've promised that it'll get you to. So just tie it all back to that. That's. That's my answer. But then I want to give. I'm going to pass the douche the douchey. What are the dashi. You know how the song go pass and pass the dutchie over to Ed Ray? Have you heard that song, Ed? It's about passing a blunt, which is like Jamaican kids singing this song about passing a blunt around. But yeah, I thought you were gonna.

Be like, pass the douche torch to Ed. I was like, oh, thanks.

I'm already holding it have for you to answer your douche.

So I've done this with a lot of clients because I really worked in just with a lot of info marketers. And one thing, like, I have a few things. So one thing, like Stefan said, fascinations, like literally anytime. Like, you have like an interesting fact, like something you think you could write a fascination from. Like, just literally take insanely vigorous notes. Like take insanely vigorous notes and put a timestamp on each one. And then after that go back and then write a bunch of fascinations for each bullet. And then you just pick one, pick a bunch and use those. That's what's one very important thing to do. It also saves you a lot of time in the future if you want to go back and re watch things. The other thing is to start thinking about your marketing argument and your big idea while you're going through the course. The other thing is to look at what really makes the course unique and different. And then how can you play that up in your marketing message? Because, like, you know, There's a lot of info courses out there. Like, what makes this one different. So, for example, I was. I was doing Ian Stanley's. I was working for him for a while. I was on his team. So I think we were doing his ultimate persuasion workshop, which is like a $300 upsell or something like that. And we were going to sell that and it's like a writing workshop. And so the one thing that I found super, super interesting was his second self meditation to like, write faster and be more persuasive, basically.

So.

We made that, like the core hook of it, just that one bit. Right. So I think that's something to look at for sure. Is like, what is different about your clients course and what methodologies, principles or mechanisms are different. And start to write down hooks and angles as they come to you while you're going through the course. That's definitely my best advice for you.

Awesome. Hey, thank you guys so much. Yeah, that helps a lot. Cool. Glad it helps. Anyway, when we go to Rapid Fire, we saw a lot of questions here.

Okay, here we go from anonymous attendee. Hey, Stefan and Ed. I just started freelancing full time recently. I noticed that December is a little slow in general. One of the slow and peak periods for copywriting. How should I approach different periods in terms of reaching out to gigs or clients?

Yeah, good question. The second half of December is really slow. The first half actually can be pretty good. The good thing there is to think about, like, you know, depending on your niche, if people are trying to get stuff like, launched for the new year, you'll have an opportunity to pick up business there. Like, I got hired for like two letters with a client and then they're like, oh, we've got this, like a carnivore. It's a carnival offer I wrote for. And like, they basically were like, we want to get out by January 1st because, you know, New Year, everyone's trying to lose weight. So then they just, you know, turn into like a third, like, kind of client. But, you know, honestly, I'm a believer that, like, are there slow times? I guess. But I don't know. I just go back to this because people say this the same thing with, like, a lot of direct response stuff. Like, people talk about December being slow for health supplement companies. Right? And like, then you're like, sure, it's slower. So I guess, like, you know, Golden Hippo, instead of doing like, you know, $30 million this month, is only going to do $25 million. So they can do $25 million. This month and that's their slow month. Then you're doing like $500,000. Then you don't need to be worried about it being slow or not. You need to worry about getting more traffic and getting more penetration. And I kind of feel the same way with freelancing as well. I just think that there's not really slow times or even if there are for some people, I think your mindset should be that you're immune to that. That's sort of my mindset on it. I really think that's the mindset you should have as well. And what was the second part of that question?

Let's go back. How should I basically how to switch your approach in different periods of times.

I mean, I keep rocking. The way I think about is if there's certain things that the market wants. It depends on your market. But like, for example, again, if you do stuff with like, you know, like if you do weight loss, then New Year's is great. But so summer, like, hey, everyone's trying to get like bikini shape and look good and like, you know their when you lose weight fast in the summer. So summer is actually still a pretty good time. If you're working with people who are doing enterprise sales, finding out when and you're doing B2B, it's like, hey, this is the end of the quarters coming up and you're trying to meet your projections. I can help you get to your projections. Just really finding the specific stuff that's going on in their business cycle and then crafting your pitch based on that. Cool. Let's do more. Let's go.

Okay.

Fede says you also, you gotta like, you gotta translate like yeah, yeah, yeah.

You also read copy or marketing newsletter. Any advice? I'm not sure what that is. I want to build my own email list and I need some advice to start. Okay, I think we could help with that. I'm not sure what the first part's.

About, but anyway, maybe just asking about copy and marketing newsletter. It's like any advice for them? I'm not super good at that. I read Justin's a little bit. I should be better. I know people get really great wins from Justin's newsletter. I think it's valuable. I just am not the best at reading other people's newsletters. But you should. I think there's value to it, but I don't have any advice beyond that. And then the second part you want to handle Ed?

Yeah. Building your own email list, right? Quality emails that people want to read.

That's It. Yeah. And then tal. I mean dude the thing too. I don't do this as much anymore but like stuff about like at the end like hey, find this valuable. Make sure you know, share friends forward like you know, subscribe, stuff like that. Like telling people what to do, be able to share, tell people to tell their friends to subscribe, have a link to the subscription, stuff like that for sure. Sweet.

Okay. Mark asks, I'm writing copy for a client who's running a real estate company. What's the best marketing strategy to close clients to purchase villas and how should I approach it? I need a fresh mind.

Nice. Okay, so you're getting clients to purchase villas. I have more questions for this. I don't want to go to do live but I don't think we have the time for it. So the best I can do for right now on it would be like assuming that these are higher net worth people. I mean a bunch of stuff that like Porter, like Stansberry did like that like really elite like Travel Mastermind and like Agora had this stuff on these vacation destinations. But the point is I would be like trying to from a copy perspective like really just painting pictures of like luxury and life at these villas. Like imagine, you know, like waking up to like the roaring ocean and like, you know, like as you sort of stroll down the pathway into like your own private garden. You know, like I don't know, things like that. Like I think the most biggest thing there would just be really future pacing and like paint a picture and then probably coupling that with like some kind of hook around how it's way more affordable than you think, you know. Because the biggest objection is always like everyone. No, it's very hard. You can talk to very many people who are like, oh, I don't want a villa, everyone's a villa. The objection is gonna be like I can't afford it. But that's true regardless of if they actually do have like the net worth or the money to afford it or not. So I think it's like painting the picture and then kind of like promising that it's much more, you know, within reach than you may think. Unless, unless the clientele is just ultra high net worth people in which case they don't give a fuck. Then it's about like exclusivity and like that they've earned it and deserve it and things like that. But if you come back next week, I can maybe if you have time like master, we can do that in more depth. But those are my depth. But those are My initial thoughts.

Love it. Okay, Michael Ngoco asks, I have the opportunity to build out an affiliate marketing program in the finance investment space. I've never done it before, so how should I go about it?

Honestly? Join Amber Spears Traffic Tribe thing? I don't think it's not. It's like 3.99amonth or something like that. I don't know if that's out of reach or not, but like, you should join Amber's Traffic Tribe mastermind. They have like weekly calls. It's like a whole group of people who are all sending traffic to each other's offers. Like, she like basically was a consultant with Agora for like a long time. Like, I'm not trying to like be like, I'm not, you know, people who are come on the show regularly know I don't usually just say throw money at a solution, but to me that's a no brainer. We're like joining. You can join, you know, DBron's marketing group too. But like I said, 399, 395amonth. Super awesome. And worth more than 3.95amonth. Yeah, Laura's in it too. And Laura's gonna need traffic for her stuff. My wife Laura. I just think that's, that's what you should do.

Traffic Tribe.

Yeah, Traffic Tribe.

Chad Fahlman asks, aside from an agency, which you hate, how can a copywriter replicate themselves? P.S. please don't give me the mic. I'm in the shower.

Amazing. So it might be my first time answering for somebody while they're in the shower. But replicating yourself, I mean, you know, basically you could hire somebody to write. I mean, I don't know. I think you have to do an agency model kind of to replicate yourself, you know, so. But you don't have to create a huge agency. But you could hire. I go back to, I still struggle with this because I'm like, damn. Like, I could, you know, hire people under me to basically follow rnbc. Like, people ca light and see the topics that are like now I'm like, I could just hire them, have them follow the steps. I just sort of look over it and like, because they've been trained in my methodology and they're in the mastermind, all that. Like, I've seen their copy. Like they can write like 90% as good as I can. And then I could just go in and like tweak the rest of it, you know, and stuff like that. And I could keep charging the same fees and cut my work by like 90%. So I haven't done that really, but it's tempting. But the challenge is again, don't then just go like overload yourself with clients and don't take on too many projects and be prepared. Make sure you hire the right person and all that kind of stuff. Oh, good. We caught Chad before he entered the shower, so now he's just sitting naked listening to my answer. You're welcome, Chad. Unfortunately, OnlyFans.com ChadFallman you know 1, 1 5. Watch.

Watch that link. Actually be active though.

Real weird, real fast. Okay, right there. Tyler can do one more. One more. Excuse me. One more.

All right, I don't have a call, so we can do one more.

Thanks, man.

Okay. You picked the last one, Stefan.

Okay. Boy, I look, but then I feel bad for whoever I don't pick. Rich. Mitchie, I saw yours. If you're still on the call, Rich, I'm gonna you email me as well. For you, Richmond, you always get a response, so I'll respond to your email. Max, we already talked to you. How do you increase focus and beat distractions? How do you effectively use our method to attract more customers for the. For a staffing agency? Damn, there's a bunch of good questions here.

Okay, so maybe I should choose for.

You then you should pick for me. I feel like I want to answer a bunch of them. I accept.

So like, okay, I like Sepp's question. Got a question about closing on the phone. How do you go about getting commitment and do you ask for the full price?

Yeah, so I mean, if I'm on the phone, I'm closing, I'm not asking for the full price. I mean, I think the biggest commitment is like a pre qualifying them making sure that they actually can afford whatever you're going to ask them for. And so doing a little bit of research on them and kind of knowing where they're at. The way I will do it is generally if I already know that they can afford my price, then I won't bring up money for quite a while. I just provide value. Like I consult, right? I'm like an advisor. I consult, I give them practical stuff they can do that they can do without me. And I just sort of give away the farm. And then I'm like, basically like, that's what you should do. But if you know, you, of course you can hire me. And I'm interlacing stories of my doing this myself and having successful success for people and things like that. And then if you don't hire me, here's what my fees $50,000 might be a lot to you, might be a little. Maybe you expected. I have no idea, but kind of explain why I charge that. And then I do the math, which I've talked about before. Doing the math for the client, where it's like, essentially, all right, say that they do whatever I create for them, is going to create at least a million dollars. And they're like, they agree to that, and their profit margin is probably like 20%. And they agree to that, and they're great. Cool. That's $200,000 profit from this, and you're paying me 50,000. So that's a 4x. But of course, the goal is that you'll do, like $10 million, which would give you like, $2 million in profit at a 20% profit margin, which means you get like a 40x on paying me. So just doing the math is just significantly good. Now, if I'm not sure if the client is qualified or not, I will chat, be nice, provide a little bit of value still. But I'll get to my pricing faster, and I'll be like, by the way, yeah, for me, it's like, I'm pretty. You know, I like to say I'm expensive, personally, but that's my brand, I guess, too. But, yeah, like $50,000, you know. Now, the reason why is because of the results I get people and, you know, my incredible track record. I can explain more about that in a second. But I mean, I'm not sure, first and foremost, you know, does that number, like, shocking or does it make sense? Is it what you expected? You know what I mean? Like, I just sort of let them answer that. Because if they're like, oh, my God, like, yeah, you know, oh, that's crazy. Like, all right, no problem. You know what I mean? Well, cool. What I can do is I can. I have some friends I can refer you to, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, if they're like, yeah, no, I mean, that's a lot. But, I mean, I can see why it would make sense. Then you're like, oh, okay. And then you can keep going and do all this stuff. You add value and then go back to the price and do the math. But, yeah, I'm giving the price away for sure. Otherwise, I hate. Dude, the whole thing of you don't tell them the price. I'll send you a proposal. And you send the proposal, and you're like, oh, I hope they don't think it's too much money. It's like, that's a. People do that because they're afraid of rejection, because of their own worries of self worth and their own value and their own insecurities about their skill level and the services they offer. So you should just be so confident what you're offering that, like, you're, like, proud to the price and you need to have a take it or leave it attitude. Even though it's tough when you're like, you do need the client. I get it. But basically, like, the whole, like, you know, feeling of you can't. You can't be afraid. Like, you can't be like, people know when people are thirsty or desperate or something like that, so you have to project, like, indifference, essentially. So cool. That's my take on that.

There we go.

Sweet. Was fun. This is a fun one. I had a really good time, Ed. Me, too. Awesome. So in that case, we're gonna wrap up. Thanks, everybody, for joining us on this episode of the road 2 million. We are gonna be off next Thursday because of Christmas. What? I don't know. Maybe we'll do. We'll talk. Maybe we can do the Takeover show. I do want to get an Edway Takeover show the near future, but, bro, I'm Jewish.

I ain't got Christmas.

I know you don't. Yeah. The Road to a Billion Hanukkah edition with Ed Ray.

Oh, man. Today's the last day of Hanukkah, though.

I mean, you know, we can still have the. We'll figure it out, but I'm not going to be doing next week. We'll see if anything comes of that. But thank you for joining. Have a wonderful holidays. If I don't talk to you before then. If you're listening on itunes, make sure you subscribe to the podcast you watch on YouTube. Make sure you subscribe, please leave a comment. Let us know if you enjoyed this. The value you got, all that kind of stuff, it really means the world to us and helps with, you know, kind of reach and things like that, and smash the, like, button and all that kind of stuff, too. And everyone, just have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you so much.