[RTB:E3] “Money Loves Speed” - The Road to a Billion with Stefan Georgi

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host, Stefan Georgi, and I'm glad to have you here with me today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money, really almost anything. And the whole point of this show is to help you, to give you authentic feedback, to go deep and have really strong conversations that can allow you to level up or improve some aspect of your career and your life. The reason it's called A Road to a Billion is a double entendre. I'm going to hit a billion dollars in sales this year for my own products and those of. For copyright for clients. And I also want to make an impact on the lives of a billion people in the next 20 years. And I mean, like a real impact. Not just they heard my name or something, but I've done something in some level. I've affected them and helped them to have a better quality of life. So we're gonna start taking calls in about five minutes from now. The way it works is just put your questions into the Q and A section of Zoom here, and then my good friend Mr. Ed Ray will be reviewing the questions and feeding them to me. So he'll kind of say what your question is about. He'll unmute you. You can kind of share more details about the question. Then we will talk through it together. Ed, you want to go ahead and say hi and introduce yourself to everybody?

Yeah, for sure. Hey, what's up, guys? I'm Ed Ray and I am a Facebook compliance specialist. I help people get their funnels Facebook friendly so they can, you know, get some of those Zuck bucks. What a unique intro today.

That was a good one. Yeah, the Zuck Bucks are surreal thing.

Yeah, High roi, baby. All right, so are we ready to answer some questions?

We are not. I am going to start in about five minutes, but first I'm going to do my little opening monologue that I do here in general. And yeah, we'll start answering in five minutes. We're going to make sure you put your questions in the Q and A section. Yeah. Today. I mean, the thing I want to talk about, and I sent this to my email list this morning as well and put it on Facebook and stuff. So you probably saw me talking about it a little bit. But it's the idea about how. What I really love about freelancing and digital marketing, E comm, all those things, is the speed with which things can happen. The reason I wrote about that this morning and that I'm talking about today, I've got Jude Charles out here with me. He's doing the next episode in the documentary series we're doing kind of about me and my mission and my copy. And yesterday he was asking about why I'm so passionate around freelancing. Why do I care so much about freelancing? And I thought about it, and part of it is definitely that I don't want to be beholden to anybody. Like, I'd like to have optionality. I like to be able to be my own boss and set my own hours. I don't want to feel obligated to do anything. Like I told Jude yesterday. And it's true that I will. I haven't. I can't remember the last time I woke up and like, felt like I have to work or felt like I didn't want to work. Every single day I wake up and I'm just excited to start doing stuff. And that's incredible. When you have a job, for me, at least a lot of times I would wake up and have this panic or anxiety like, I don't want to go spend. Spend the next 10 hours of my day in this job doing this stuff that I don't want to do. And I don't have a choice, right? You don't get to not go to work. You can call out sick a couple times, but eventually you get fired. Another huge part of it is your earnings potential. If like a corporate job, typically you may say you make $4,000 a month and you're a good worker and you work hard and you contribute a lot and do all that. By the end of the year, the average employee can expect to get a 4.6% increase to their salary, which means you go from $4,000 a month to $4,184 a month. Whereas as a freelancer and for example, as a freelance copywriter, you can start out charging $150 or $200 per project. And by the end of a year, if you've been studying copy and really focusing and working hard and networking and doing the right things, you can easily be getting paid 1,000 or $2,000 per project for the same types of projects. So you can go from $2,000 per month in earnings to $10,000 a month in earnings, which is like a 500% increase in salary versus a 4.6% increase in salary, which is incredible, right? That only that happens in freelancing, and it happens Online with digital marketing and copywriting and a lot of the things that I talk about, and that's why I love that stuff. And you can do the same thing with other offers as well, right? And funnels and businesses like I wrote about in the email. Today, the average retail store owner makes 51,000 per year per location. That's why people try to franchise or they try to open 10 locations, because, oh, man, if I open 10 locations, I can make 510,000 per year. But so a lot of work and risk and overhead and all of these things to open 10 locations. You know, even if you say you make 100,000 per year net, and you open 10 new to a million per year net, that's awesome. But it's crazy how much work that is. Whereas with a funnel or an E. Comm store or building something online, you can launch almost any business for less than $5,000 online. And in a single year, you can go from 0 in sales to 20 million, 40 million, 50 million, or even if you want to be more modest, a couple million. So you can make way more in your first year than you'll make in the first next five years doing traditional retail. And the reason why is speed. I mean, I talked about in the email today how there's never been a more level playing field as far as entrepreneurship or business and things like that. Freelancing, working. Like, there's never been a more level playing field. It's all possible because of what we can do with the Internet and online. And that's why I love that stuff. So I want to just really point that out to you guys as well, because I just feel like this is really. It's crucial for you to understand that. And there's a mindset component, too, because if you. It's hard to imagine somebody responded to my email today and was like, I have a hard time believing that many freelancers can make $10,000 a month. But then Ed can attest and copy accelerator. We have all these freelancers who come in making not that much and who are now making way more than that. You don't have to share numbers, but you've tripled your income, quadrupled your income since you went out on your own.

I'm just. I'm just gonna say. I'm not gonna say specific numbers. June. So June 1, you know, about two weeks ago or so, before doing any work, I'd already tripled my full income for the month back when I was working on my old copywriting job.

Yeah. So that's. That doesn't suck. Troy Erickson, who's also in Copy Accelerator now, he, he told me he, I did a freelancing event and guess it was like late November, early December, he was making $6,000 a month. That was the best he'd ever made as a freelancer. And then he came to our event and Copy Accelerator event in February, March, he did he share his numbers with me, so I think it's okay to share with you. March he did like 20,000. April he did over 30,000. And then March he did over 20,000 again. But like literally, if you look at all these people, I'm using Copy Accelerator members a lot because they're in my orbit. But like there's all these people who are now making 15, 20, 30, 40,000 who they've 3x, 4x 5x their income. And it's not like there's no pitch in this web, right? This isn't like a webinar that turns into a pitch. The point is, it's entirely possible. It helps of having mentorship, it helps of having the right people. But you know, it's also a mindset thing because if you go from 5,000 to 15,000, you have to feel like people have a self worth issue or I don't deserve this, it's happening too fast, I shouldn't be able to get this money. Right? And then they self sabotage. They don't do the work or they go out and spend it on some dumb shit. They go buy a Ferrari and overleverage themselves. They do just dumb things. That's mental. That's in here. So there are two parts to it. But I love speed and people say that money loves speed and that's why money loves what we do with online marketing, entrepreneurship, E comm and all of these things. So I just wanted to share that with you guys. I think it's an important thing to share. And yeah, it is totally spoken about in the Big Leap, the self sabotage again, we've talked about the Big Leap. We'll probably talk about it every episode because it's such an awesome, amazing book. But yeah, it's really important. So with that being said, Ed, do you want to go ahead and move into answering some questions?

Abso freaking lutely.

Okay.

All right. We got a. And by the way, can I just quickly drop one thing based on my personal experience?

Drop as many things as you want.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

Let the records show I dropped my wallet in front of the camera. So when you're talking about mentorship, I remember When I was at your copy accelerator event and I was thinking about leaving my old job and you're like, dude, you could easily clean up 15k, remember? And I was like, what? I was like, no, bro, no way. And then it's like the first month of me leaving, you know, my old job, I already did that. It's like, okay, it's pretty sick when you have the right, right people around you, the right connections and just like the right support network. It's truly, really powerful.

Yeah, 100%. And, and I think that it's just those opportunities are out there, but I think the support is important and part of what we're doing with this show, the reason I'm doing this and pointing out there and recording it is to be part of your support network for everyone who's on this call and then for people who will watch the replay or listen to the replay, it's really to provide that I can't mentor everybody individually, but my hope is that you can ask questions, we can talk through things, and I can help you guys to all accelerate whatever you're doing and get to where you want to go faster.

There we go. And someone in the chat even said that last month they made Daniel. Sherlock made 1k last month and this month he's due to make 5.5 because of Stefan.

You know, doing what I can, but it's awesome. Daniel, congratulations on that. That's really, really incredible.

All right, so let's get to the first question. First up, we have Kimmy Doo. Kimmy says, I did research by looking at 5 star and 1 star reviews on Amazon. How do I do effective research and narrow down to the best unique mechanism? And is it okay to have more than one mechanism?

Cool. Hey, Kimmy, how are you?

Hi, Stefan.

Great.

How are you?

I'm doing well, thank you. So, okay, awesome. On the research and then regarding the mechanism stuff, you're kind of, you're just curious about where to find the best mechanism. Is that kind of part one?

Yeah, the best place to find it?

Are you working in a specific niche or do you work in a variety of niches?

Yeah, I'm mainly focusing on the clean beauty niche right now.

Okay, cool. Can you explain what clean beauty is so I fully understand it?

Yeah.

It's like products that are eco friendly, they're econ products and cruelty free, like cruelty fragrance.

Cool.

And like face washes and things like that.

Awesome. That's fantastic. Okay, cool. Yeah. So for stuff like that, there's two approaches you can really take with finding the Mechanism. And real quickly, for people who are going to watch this and don't know what a mechanism is or what we're talking about, one thing I really teach is the unique mechanism behind a problem and behind a solution. So whenever you're selling to somebody, you want to explain the real reason why they haven't been able to resolve a pain point in the past. And you want to be able to explain how your product or service is going to provide a solution when other things have failed previously. So as far as something with ingredients in it, the two ways you can go down that path would be some of the ingredients are kind of well known. You can sort of start googling those ingredients and study. So for example, watching me ask one more question, are these more products for like, like makeup or is it more like wrinkles or dark spots or you know, age lines or things like that? Is it more functional or is it more cosmetic?

I would say it's more functional.

Okay.

Like little bit of anti aging and like preserving the skin.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So some things that there's two approaches I typically take for this one is you can go through the ingredients and look at some of the kind of common actually, well, not common, but I guess natural weighty ingredients, ingredients that you know are good. And you can start doing searches for that ingredient. And then I always add in MCBI after, which is the database for like PubMed and like a health database. So if I for example just say it has turmeric in it, if I'm like turmeric skin, ncbi, I'm going to find a bunch of interesting studies about how turmeric in a topical solution reduce wrinkles by 27%. And then they don't just go there because these are scientific studies, they'll be like, you know, we think the reason why is because turmeric is anti inflammatory and targets the NK15 like enzyme that's in your body. And that usually causes wrinkles. But turmeric helps to like minimize it. So I'm making up the NK15 thing. But there's, if you go through there, you'll kind of hear, you'll find interesting stuff, not just about what the ingredients do, but how they work. And you may even find commonalities or similarities to say that, you know, turmeric does that, but collagen also does that and elderberry extract does that too. So you kind of, if you start doing that and going through ingredients and noting studies and you find commonalities, that is the way you can kind of unify around a Unique mechanism. Does that make sense?

So is it about like finding commonalities between a lot of good ingredients that are in the product?

Yeah, ideally. Right. So if you, because again, if you look at one thing you'll kind of find is that a lot of times for if a bunch of ingredients help with something, they're all kind of doing the same thing. So whether that's reducing inflammation or promoting the growth of collagen in a skincare product, or adding hydration. Right. Like hyaluronic acid adds hydration, collagen as hydration. So you'll generally find that there are commonalities there. So that would be one of the approaches. Yeah, if this makes sense. But does that make sense, Kimmy?

Yeah, super helpful.

Okay, cool. But then here's the thing. You can, the other way you can do it is you can also go somewhere like Science Daily.com, which is a website that I really love, and you can sort of search for specific problems. Like you can search wrinkles or dark spots or anti aging or skincare. And if you do things like that, you'll generally find basically Science Daily takes all the new findings from the scientific community, publishes them all with like good headlines and abstracts and kind of a write up and understand easy to understand language that's for the everyday person. And so when you do that, you may go through and you may find that there's some study about some newly discovered molecule that is responsible for rapid aging in our face once we hit 50. And if you find that, say you find that's going to use an example would just take whatever that molecule is or so say it's called, I'm gonna make something completely random up like the PSF molecule, right? Then you can just Google like turmeric, psf, ncbi. And what you often find crazy enough is that there's all these random studies that will be like turmeric helps to reduce psf. So then if you have studies that say turmeric helps with wrinkles or skin care, and then there's also, you know, say that turmeric specifically helps with this PSF thing. Again, I'm just making up random acronyms. But the point being if you do that, then suddenly you have like a unique mechanism there being, oh, the real reason for, you know, aging skin is one or one of the real reasons is this little known but newly discovered molecule called psf. And so we need to like target that. And fortunately, here are these natural ingredients that do it. Does that, does that make sense to you?

So it's about connecting like a problem that you find on Science Daily, like a unique molecule that causes problems and then connecting that back to a beneficial ingredient in the product. Is that.

Yeah, that's that. So. Yeah. So I'm giving you two approaches. So there was. The first one was like, find commonalities in the ingredients by looking at studies on them. And then this other option or alternative is either, yeah, you find the problem first, you find an interesting problem, then you kind of check the ingredients to see if they have been shown to help with the problem. Because what you just end up finding is that for a lot of natural ingredients, they ultimately, it's almost just like a chicken or an egg thing because they're ultimately working in a very common way. Like they're, they're doing the same thing. Like, like, again, like everything's anti inflammatory. Right. Like, or they all a bunch of stuff have antioxidants. And so typically what you'll find is like, no matter. Shockingly enough, whatever the thing is, if you like, whatever the weird molecule or enzyme or whatever, you'll almost always find that there have been some studies that show that whatever ingredient you have, like, that several of those ingredients actually target this thing. So that's how you approach it that way.

Oh, awesome. And I have one last question.

Sure.

If you're writing a Facebook ad for one of these products, like, would you focus more on the negativity because of the, like, the lexicon thing for the Facebook, like, would you focus more on the negativity side or try to be more positive?

I would, I would. And I'll let Ed chime in too, because he's our resident Facebook compliance expert. But I would generally try to be more positive simply because Facebook doesn't like negativity. And you're gonna have more trouble with ads being approved. I think you can talk about stuff. Like, I was frustrated with my skin. Like, I felt like I looked older than my years and that no matter what I tried, I wasn't getting the results that I wanted. But then I discovered one of the real reasons behind the wrinkles that were bothering me. And it was surprisingly simple to start addressing them and enjoy healthy, beautiful skin. Now I'm sharing it with others, you know, whatever. Like, click here to see how it works. Something like that. So you can kind of talk about a frustrating experience. But I, you know, you don't want to really be like, tired of wrinkles and feeling old and ugly, you know, like, if you do that, like, you're going to get in a lot of trouble. Ed do you want to add anything to that? As our, as I said, our resident Facebook compliance expert.

Yeah, for sure. One thing that's really, really important is definitely, like Stefan said, keeping it more positive. Because one thing Facebook really hates is when you make the user feel bad. So calling out directly their insecurities, problems, things they may have faced in the past that didn't work, potentially even. And directly saying, like, you know, maybe you tried XYZ and it didn't work because then somebody will go, oh, well, how does Facebook know about me? Are they selling my data because of the Cambridge Analytica scam in 2018 or scandal? They don't want people feeling like that. So like Stefan said, just be sure to keep it more positive and focus more on third party or neutral statements. So instead of, you know, or first person statements. So be. I, like Stefan said, I didn't like my skin. Or most people, you know, or most. Most women who, you know, are moms or whatever have a hard time looking in the mirror and feeling beautiful because, you know, of their kids. Stretch marks, whatever. You can get away with a lot more if you make it about other people or a third party or it's a neutral statement instead of saying you.

Okay, so instead of saying you, talk more about, like me, like what happened to me or what happen to most people. Like most people, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, exactly. Like you. You know that ad that I wrote, words like, one of the greatest struggles in today's world is being stuck in a dead end job. Most people writing on Facebook would just put, oh, hate your job.

Right.

But you have to make it third party or neutral.

Ah, got it.

So.

So don't directly call out people.

Exactly. Yeah.

Okay.

Prec.

Okay.

Thank you so much, Ed. Thank you, Stefan.

Yeah, my pleasure, Kimmy.

Thanks, Kimmy. All right, Ed, who do we got next?

Who we got next? Oh, this is a really good question. I'm excited for this one actually. Next question is from Daniel Sherlock. He asks any quick ways to over deliver for clients when handing in copy.

What's up, Daniel? Hey, how's it going? Good, man, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Yeah, as you know, I'm pretty much just starting, but I, you know, it'd be great to know if there are any quick ways that, you know, when I'm approaching the deadline, I finish the copy and I'm ready to hand in. But obviously I'd love to over deliver and make the client really happy. Are there any easy ways? Quick ways I can do that? Yeah. What are you writing all kinds of copy or are you mostly writing one type of copy, as in, like, sales letters, emails, Facebook ads, that kind of stuff? So far, just the sales letters.

Cool.

Yeah. So the biggest and easiest thing you can do is to give them some variance. So if it were me, I'd give them some alternative headlines to test. Maybe give them three to five headlines, and you could even give them an alternative lead to test as well. So an alternative intro. Those things, you know, shouldn't take too long. Even if the lead is the first, like, couple hundred words of it, you know, it's like a bit of a different angle. Doing little things like that go a really long way. The one thing I found, people do this. When people have taken this advice I've given, which is awesome, but as a client who hires copywriters, if somebody gives me a sales letter but the first page is, like, 10 headlines, then I feel kind of, like, overwhelmed, and I'm sort of annoyed. I'm like, why didn't you pick the best one? So I don't think you want to kind of overwhelm somebody with a ton of headlines. If anything, what I would do is I would give them the draft of the letter with whatever headline you think the best is, and then in a separate document, be like, hey, here's three to five additional headlines that, you know, you can test. Or, hey, here's an additional lead I wrote so you can test this as a variant. Just doing a little thing like that would differentiate you from 98% of the other freelancers out there who are all trying to, like, do the minimum amount of work and then just get paid and move on to the next project. So I think that's a really good place to start. Yeah. Awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah, my pleasure.

Beautiful. All right, next up, another good question. Lots of good questions, good variety. We have Josh Knox, and he asks. First question. First question. Do you ever get too close to the product you're writing about? And if so, how do you step back and get back to the right perspective?

What's up, Josh? Hey. How's it going? Good, man. How you doing?

Doing really well. Thanks.

Good. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, I was just gonna say. So background is, I've been basically trying to write a sales letter for the last 10 months for this company that I'm working for. And I didn't find your RNBC until, of course, the copy accelerator stuff back in February. So since then, I've been working on using that. But I feel like over the past 10 months of trying to run the marketing for this company. Write a sales letter. I mean, everything you can think of that would launch the offer that they have. I feel like I'm now too close. And the reason that the guy that owns the company hired me was because I was completely outside of the industry that, that we're in. And so I still feel like I have a fresh perspective and I'm not jaded, but I also feel like I'm getting really close to it. And so I kind of get blinded by the copy that I've been writing for so long now.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And you're not alone. I actually gave Ed that advice in the copy Accelerator Facebook group just last night because he's been working on something and he started kind of like overthinking it a little bit. The biggest things I do in those cases, I mean, one is if you can walk away from it, if you can just put it off for like a week or two and at least a few days and come back to it, I do think that helps to come back with fresh eyes. I mean, you've been working on it. Let me understand that, Josh, because you've been working on it for like 10 months, this letter.

So, I mean, maybe that's a little bit of an overstatement. I've been working for the company as a contractor for the last 10 months, but it's to handle all of their marketing. I'm in effect, a contracted CMO for the company.

Got it.

So in that time, you know, I used marketing tactics from my past. Things like story brand. Right. Where it tells you to simplify the message. And like I said, I didn't find your approach to this until, you know, the early part of the year and then attended copy accelerator. So it's not that I've been writing this sales letter itself, it's that I've been going through the entire range of what marketing should be for this particular product.

Right.

Which is a no fee payment processing product.

Right.

And if you understand anything about the payment processing world, there is literally a million different combinations to come up with a payment processing program. So it's that where I feel like I get blinded. Almost like it's so difficult to niche down into what I want to say that I keep pulling back and looking at the entirety of the puzzle.

Yeah, makes sense. I mean, the way I think about for something like this, and I don't think you necessarily need like a really long form sales letter for what you're selling. I think you can totally test that. And I mean, which kind of Maybe you're doing all these different marketing kind of things. So you're already kind of doing that. I'd look at probably like a 7 to 1012 minute video for it or a script if you're gonna do that. But I would focus on the main pain point, which is like, I mean, people. People hate are getting hammered by surprise fees. And the biggest thing is, as someone who's run, you know, I don't know, hundreds of millions of dollars of transactions. Like, I hate when I feel like I've made a certain amount of money and then I look at all these random fees or these sort of things I paid for transactions and realize that it's eating into my profit and that I feel like this never actually disclosed to me. Right? It is, it is for sure. But you kind of think like the rates, whatever it is, like it's 3.5% and you're like, okay, cool, 3.5%. But then you look at it and it's like actually an effective rate of 5% or 6% or something crazy. And that's a huge difference. What Josh does in the company he works for, just for people, for context, is they basically pass those fees on to the consumer. So the consumer pays your processing fees for you, and it's completely legal and it's like, you know, supported by Visa and MasterCard or whatever. I mean, I'm not trying to. You're the expert in it, Josh. But it is a really cool thing. And then this is for like retail, physical retail merchants, people who are selling the stores, all this kind of stuff. But it's a really cool thing. So I would probably focus on like the one or two really big pain points. And then, you know, the solution which is pass it on to your consumer. And then answering the objection of is my consumer gonna be pissed? Is the customer gonna be pissed that I'm paying for the fees? And really, you know, showing how it's not, and then giving those case studies and the proof elements, which is stuff you've been working on. The other thing, Josh, I would say is as cmo, though it may come time where you just, if you're too close to this, like hire, just hire somebody or get them to agree to hire somebody. Like, you don't have to Pay, you know, $15,000 or $20,000 for the script. You can probably hire a good writer to write a variant for like $2,000 or $3,000. And if they have the budget, maybe they'll hire a couple people and you can test a couple video scripts. Or text sales letters, but because your role is cmo, not like the copywriter. I understand wanting to master copy, but in your case, maybe the best thing to do is to just remove yourself and be okay with that and make sure they're okay with it. But they should be because they didn't hire you to be the copywriter. They hired you to help grow their business and do the marketing and bring in new customers and things like that. So that's kind of what comes to my mind. Does that stuff make sense to you?

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And you did hit all the rules and regulations the right way. I mean it's. The program is 100% legal and the pain points you talked about are the pain points that I research and have found in research. And so. And that's the main objection. Well, my customers will be pissed. So I keep going over this long form sales letter almost in an effort to, I think in my own mind understand how it's going to work for my consumer, which I think is a good thing. But then wondering, am I just saying, am I saying too much? Because some of the top people running this program right now, at least from our perspective, and when you try and use something like similar web or other products out there that look for these companies, there just isn't a lot of them. There might be two. And those two people are really saying the same thing. And the offer is the same from start to finish and it is a direct offer which is get 0% payment processing and for whatever reason we're not getting the sales like these other companies are. So everything that you says makes sense, that you're saying makes sense. It's like just like I said in the beginning, how do you step back from being a little bit too close to it? And I asked this question in a different way in the Justin and Stefan taught copy group, which was should I write a long form sales letter and then just use that as my foundation for how I put the marketing messages out there?

Yeah.

So yeah, everything you're saying makes sense. I would like to step back most of what we're doing just by way of background because I'll continue to ask questions on these calls because it's awesome what you're doing. But what I feel like is to write that letter, leave it be the foundation because we've got to get sales in order to support hiring more people. So I'm the starting gate to get more sales while at the same time trying to pull us up by our bootstraps literally with very little Budget to work with.

So I do wonder because your main call to action is to like book a call, right? It's like book a call, find out how.

Yeah, I just want, I just want to get our sales team leads coming in the door.

Yeah. And I think for that like yeah, you just really don't need a long form letter. I think again, if you want to write one just so you is beneficial to you on some level, then go for it. But I think it really needs to be. We've a brilliant way to provide zero fee merchant processing and transactions so that business owners get more money in their pocket and can grow their business and thrive. You know what I mean? Like find out how completely compliant, completely legal, supported by the big companies and whatever. Click here. And then some testimonials around it. You know, I just, I just feel like a simple. That's kind of what your first page was, I feel like. But maybe even then you overcomplicated it on. I remember seeing the very first landing page when you were in Copy Accelerator briefly before the event when we put everyone in there. But yeah, I just focus on that. I just really clear clean value proposition and put a little more onus on the sales team on the call to explain how it works. Because you don't have to give away too much. I think you want to get people interested and then just show like testimonials and social proof that other people are doing this and it really is working. So they believe it works and they trust it and then get them on the call and let the sales team do the work. And then there's a copy opportunity too. Right. Cause I'm sure they have scripts. So maybe there's some stuff to play with there for the sales team so they can close or convert people at a higher rate. But that's the way I think about it.

Okay, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And because we did drive leads before. And the way the profit structure works in payment processing, which you might be aware of, is I could spend probably $500 to get a client and in the first two months I'll be profitable. And then because the way payment processing works long term, the profit margin is huge. That's why I found the Copy Accelerator so fascinating. One, from the copy perspective. But two, because a lot of what direct response copywriting is is in getting hundreds and thousands of sales a day. And I literally need to make one sale a day to generate a million in net income from this program. So it's like where do you draw the line of what you're doing?

Yeah, no, totally. Why? Hey Ed, real quick, I want to get your. Because you've done a lot of like Legion stuff like when your previous job and copy and funnels and things of that nature and you're helping some people with like Legion stuff right now as well. You know, in your experience of doing those types of funnels, is it including. Including you've done lead gen where then it was to get somebody on a call, right. For high ticket things that you were trying to close. What are some of your experiences with as far as the messaging, the length of the page, the copy goes, all that kind of stuff?

I think it's a really great question. So.

Totally put you on the spot.

Yeah, but it's okay. I'm used to it. I have worse situations been put on the spot. It's fine by Legion. Basically just going to do a phone call, right?

Yeah, Book a call.

Got it.

Actually the best that I've ever seen. We had this one page going for quite a while and it sold a 2500 dollar course to Cold traffic. I think it was converting. It wasn't like crazy good, but it was like, it's pretty good with no optimization or nothing. It was like this, I think like 10 or 15 page sales letter where it basically broke like it had like the, the big idea and it kind of like broke down explaining what the idea was about and then just book a call for more information to see if you apply or you qualify. And that seemed to work really well actually. I think we were getting like, I think it was like between 1,000 to $2,000 for every $2,500 purchase. And our LTV was you know, insane. So it was totally affordable. Made sense.

That's cool. And that was for a really high ticket because the cool thing with like Josh, is there like a startup fee for them to get started?

No, it's. That's a really good question because oftentimes when we do talk to leads, they're like, it just sounds too good to be true. So it can't be true. It's that classic. What we're really offering and it really works. Does sound too good to be true because we can take like our average client would be processing 50k a month in card sales and their average ticket might be $25. So this works like really great in restaurants or convenience stores or something like that. And we can save that person about $1,500 a month on average with no startup costs. And the second you say that to somebody, their mind's just blown. And they immediately, like, their cognitive dissonance just kicks in like, you can't believe. That could never work for me. I've never experienced that. I don't even know anyone that's experiencing that. And so it just blows their mind. But the short answer is no, there's no startup cost.

Yeah, perfect. So for that I really feel like, yeah, just like getting them to book the call and focus on that value proposition kind of. And then social proof and then kind of handling their cognitive dissonance on the call as much as possible. To me, I think that's probably gonna be the most successful funnel.

A great lesson I learned from one of my buddies, he said the other day, which was really cool, is marketing should make sales pretty much like useless. Meaning, like your marketing is so good, like any, any schmuck can get on the phone and close it.

And that's what I've been after. That's why the long form sales letter for me, so that I can put my sales team in a position to just take the order. Like, hey, I heard everything you said. I love it, I want it. How can I. Yeah, that's what I'm after.

So if, if the cognitive dissonance thing is like a real issue for your, your sales team, definitely I'd recommend that.

You.

Address that in your copy. Like before you even talk about the fact that there's no upfront cost, maybe you just really address it and how it works. Because I think if they can understand how it works and even be transparent about the business model, I think that might actually help quite a bit. Because it's like, hey, you know what? We don't charge up front because we want to be different, but we do charge to do xyz. Or I forget what your exact business model is, but I think just that extra layer of transparency can help remove the. It's too good to be true. Because what people forget about is sure, there may not be any upfront cost, but they forget there's costs afterwards for whatever reason. So they think if there's no cost up front, it's free. But if you can be like, well, sure, there's no cost up front, but you know, we do charge XYZ over time or whatever it is, it helps remove some of that resistance because people are like, oh, it's free, it can't. Like, it sounds too good, you know.

Yeah, no, I. It makes sense. It makes sense to me completely. It's the person that we're talking to that they just can't. We haven't figured out how to get them over that hump. The first response is, oh, my customers will never go for it. That's always the first response. And the reality is, in the market that we're after, the fee that we're passing on to the average customer is a dollar.

Yeah. Which is like, the customers just don't mind that often.

Nobody cares about a dollar.

You can even test like a headline of essentially being like, my customers will never go for that. Like, you know, like literally as like the headline or the one of the first lines. Like, that's what so and so told me. In fact, I hear it all the time when I explain that they can actually pass on all the merchant processing fees to their customer, increase their profit margin by X percent, and put Y amount of money back into their business. And yet it keeps happening again and again. So and so in Buffalo did this at their restaurant and found that they had an extra $25,000 in their checking account at the end of the first quarter. So another person did this. And right now, I'll show you how you can do the same thing to ethically pass on your processing fees to happily paying customers without having to spend a penny up front and without having to make any long term contractual commitments or something of that nature. I think, you know, maybe something where that whole lead is just like, you know, basically, hey, people without, you know, they laughed. They laughed when I told them they could get no. You know, but that kind of stuff. So, Josh, I want to. I do want to hop onto some other calls here. Yeah, you're good. Thank you. Thank you. Brilliant.

Glad it's recorded. Now I can extract it out and revo what you just said.

Yeah, 100%, dude. Thanks for. Yeah, thank you for the question. All right, Ed, what do we, who, who do we got next here?

Next up, we got Shuya Raghav. And Shuya is 15 years old and just entered the whole space of copywriting, digital marketing and freelancing. What's your take on what I should focus on as the most just starting out? And to me, Ed, if you were 15 again, what would you have done differently than what you actually did?

Hey, Ed. Like last year when you were 15. Hey, everyone. Good. You got a little bit of static on the background, but that's all good, man. So. So you're 15?

Yes.

That's incredible. And the first part of it, I'll take the first part and we'll let Ed do the second part, which is where we'll be focusing. Have you. What are you doing so far to kind of study copy and things like that?

I have taken one of the courses of Onyx Single and, and I'm just like going, I think I'm niching down on the, on the fitness niche. And, and I have just like subscribed to all the, all the Agora newsletters, but like the INH and the headline things like that.

Cool. Have you, have you written anything for any clients yet?

Nope.

Cool. And what are your main, your main goals are just creating income as a copywriter.

My main goal is like, yeah, basically start freelancing and be something like you and Ed make a really good impact on this whole industry.

Cool. That's amazing, man. So jealous of you starting at your age. If I were you and if you can just mute yourself while I answer just because there's a little bit of background noise. Um, and then if I have questions, I'll bring you back on. But I mean, I think you're doing the right thing by studying. Like, I think you have to look at having some luxury of time here because you know, at your age, like you could spend the next year or two studying and whatever and by the time you're 17 or 18, be like really, really, really, really good and be really high paid. I don't think you have to wait that long to make money. I'm not somebody who. Right. Age is arbitrary. Everything's arbitrary. People think, you know, talk about things like that and like I don't care if you're, you know, 12 or you're 100. Like, right. If you are smart, intelligent, a good writer, motivated, driven, all these things and you can absolutely crush it. And so I think age is arbitrary. So it's not because of that. It's just that you do have a beautiful luxury of not. I'm assuming you don't have any kids yet. Probably if you do, that's amazing too because you'll be like a grandpa by the time you're like 40. But you know, so I would study, I keep studying. I keep doing what you're doing. I'd look at all of the copy that's going right now and that's, you know, that's working. So I'd be looking at a swipe file, I'd be studying headlines, I'd be studying winning sales letters. You can go on clickbank, create an account as an affiliate, go through and see all the top offers in the op space, the business space, make money, online space, find out all the stuff on the first page, read the headlines, read the copy, read the stories do all that copy stuff down, write it. I don't do by hand like physical handwriting, but you can type that stuff up, join Facebook groups like you're doing, get on email lists like you're doing. And then I would go out and start getting clients because the thing that will make you the best is to actually actively write and to get paid to do it. That's where you are going to learn the most. You can learn a ton from studying stuff, but you'll learn even more from making, from just actually actively writing. So you can create an account on like Upwork, which I've talked about before and I'm sure you're familiar with that freelancing platform. You can share in different Facebook groups, you know your story. There's the cult of Copy job board where they have people posting. My personal opinion on this would be that on places like Upwork, I would not generally tell people my age if I were you because I think on Upwork you're getting a broader kind of swath of people and people who will think, oh, I'm not hiring some 15 year old, right. Even though that's a stupid mentality for them to have. But some people are going to have that. If you, by the way, you may have to have somebody help you create an Upwork account, but that, you know, there I wouldn't. But I think it can work to your benefit as a unique value proposition and a selling point for other places. So I think if you're sharing in other groups, you know, hey, I'm 15, I'm obsessed with copy. I'm studying. Here's all the things I'm doing, here's all the work I'm putting in and I'm really looking to get clients, you know, stuff in Georgia I told me that I should get, start getting as many clients as I can and doing work. So I'm, you know, I want to, I'm looking for opportunities. If anybody wants to test out a 15 year old and see how I can write better than a 40 year old, you know, like, hit me up, I'd love to help. So I think, yeah, I think like in that perspective because I think that in our industry specifically like direct response and E comm and everything, people are gonna like, like that. Like if you. I'm not hiring anybody at this moment but if I was like kind of had a need at the moment, I saw like a 15 year old kid like post in there and be like, hey, I'm studying stuff, I'm hungry, I'd be like, that's sick. I want to hire this kid and give them that opportunity. I think there's a lot of people out there like me who would feel the same way. So I think within groups and forums and things like that, you can totally leverage it and get clients. And then the last couple of things I would say is I wouldn't worry too much about what the pay is. I think you should get paid. But I think I would worry less about the trying to get like $5,000 for a gig or something and more about the experience and building the portfolio and the momentum that will happen from getting paying clients. So somebody pays you 50 bucks for something, awesome. Next thing you know, you're getting 150, great. Next thing you know, it's 500 and so on until by the time you're 18, you're charging 5,000, 10,000, whatever it is for stuff and you're in copy accelerator and crushing it. And you know, Ed, Ray's jealous because he's an old man at that point. So that's sort of where my mind goes. And then, Ed, I'd love to have you answer the second part of Shura's question as well.

For sure. So I love all that you said, dude, about the whole age thing. For those who don't know, I started my copywriting journey when I was 11.

The Doogie Hauser of copywriting. Sorry, you're like the Doogie Howser, MD of copywriting. I don't even know Doogie Howser is. Maybe that's. You're too young.

I was born in 2000, bro. I have no idea. Sorry, dude. So just like some brief, brief overview. I'll be real quick. I wanted this girl to like me when I was in like sixth grade or something. And I looked up how to get girls to like me. And so I got in the role of copywriting as a consumer in the dating niche. So every day I was reading emails, watching vsl. So copywriting is in my blood at this point. So at 15, I started taking on freelance clients. By the time I was 17, I was charging 250 USD an hour and I was making 4 and a half K a month. Still in high school?

Yeah.

And then joined job for two and a half years. And now I'm just having a good time. But yeah, for sure. I don't know if I would do anything differently. But I guess I should talk about what I did because I feel like people don't really know what I did. So one huge thing is building a name for yourself. Almost just like being known as the person who does something like whatever that happens to be for you if you go to the cult of copy Job board. I branded myself pretty clearly and I stirred up a whole bunch of controversy in that group. I think I got like 30 people kicked out of the group from one post. All intentional. I made like 3,000 plus bucks off that post from jobs and stuff. Be super polarizing, get people's attention. Hang out in Facebook groups where your avatar is and drum up some noise. That's like my favorite method is to have something super, super polarizing and get a bunch of people talking about it while your post is promoting yourself. That's what I did. That was like, that was my flagstone post and I did a. I'm a breakdancer. So I had a, had a photo of myself doing like a breakdance pose. So it caught extra attention. And there's a whole story about how my parents were gonna kick me out of the house because I wasn't gonna go to college. So yeah, it's a good time. So like half, half the people were like arguing that I should go to college. And then half the people were trying to hire me because I'm a young gun, just trying to make it. And so like, and then there's this back and forth. There's a ton, I think. So most, most posts would only get like a few comments, maybe a few likes. My one post got like 60 comments plus like 70 likes or some shit. It was nuts. And I got. So that's really the most important thing is just standing out and branding yourself. Like I was the, you know, I was the 17 year old who's getting kicked out of my parents place. Like that was who. That was my branding. And people like Stefan said they want to support the young guns, they want to help the up and comers, they want to give them a shot. Like you don't have to be charging crazy amounts. You don't have to do it for free either. But you have to put yourself out there. That's the most important thing.

Hey, Shura, one, one more question. Where do you, where do you live?

I'm from India.

Perfect. So I'd even, I'd even leverage that. I'd be like, like avi, beat yourself one more time just because of the background. But like for example, one, one guy who reached out to me who I've then helped, I got him a job where he was making, I don't know, three, four or five thousand a month, whatever it is now. But he's In Nigeria. And he hit me up and he was like, every time somebody I reach out to people and like tell them that I'm from Nigeria, they think I'm just like a, you know, a prince who's trying to scam them. And he kind of made a joke about it and it was really funny. And it also disarmed me. And even from your perspective, I'd be like, you can talk about like, you know, like, can a 15 year old kid from India actually like out convert some, you know, a 40 year old American who's been studying copy for 20 years? Like, I think the answer is yeah, here's why. Just stuff like that, I mean even play with that, play with people's. Because, you know, I think being we're so much more international as an industry and cosmopolitan, there are people from all different countries and walks of life. But then I think there's also probably some people have like an inherent, like, I don't want to call it, I don't know if it's like a prejudice, but they're like, oh, there's so many people in India who want to try and get jobs and they can't write and. Yeah. Biases. Thank you. Girling and Isaac. Yeah, I think you could sort of just call those out and play with those and flip those on their head because you've got. So I turn both the things that you're 15 and that you're in India into like assets. And I think if you do that stuff and you're gonna get a lot of people's attention because it's a total like it's pretty. Yeah, it is preempting an objection. It's like a total pattern interrupt too, that you're just sort of whatever bullshit they're kind of gonna put in their head and try and label you or box you in as. Now you just called it out and you're like, yeah, what's up? I'm right here. I think that that's, you know, can really do well for you. So that's the best advice I could share as well. So Shura, is that helpful, man?

Yeah, totally. Thank you. And Ed, I do do hip hop dancing and yeah, that feels amazing to know that you also break dance.

Let's go. Let's go, baby.

That's awesome. All right. Thank you, man.

Thanks.

Beautiful body. Young people, man.

I love it. I love it, man. I just think you young whippersnappers who don't know what Doogie Howser is, but you guys have such a leg up right it's so sick. It's so cool. It's like, because there's a whole generation. I'm gonna sound like an old man talking. But it's true. Like, this is a whole generation of people. People who have been raised on the Internet, like what you're talking about. I think I'm lucky because I got cable Internet when I was like 12. I had a deal where if I got on honor roll, cause I was a shitty student, my parents were like, we'll get cable Internet. And then I immediately used it to essentially just download pornography. And that was about all. And stream. Illegally download movies and porn and video games, but in music for sure. I got sued by Napster, obviously, and Metallica, but. But yeah, you know, you guys don't know what Napster is either. But it was this music thing. You went on it. You could, you know, kind of download music illegally. But the point is, I did also leverage that. Yeah. Limewire all day to it gave me a leg up. So I think I was born right at that cusp. Like, just to talk about me being feeling old, even though I'm only 34, is. I remember my senior of high school, I was in my friend Max's house. We were playing poker. I had a cell phone, which I'd only had for like a year. And like this girl who I kind of have been talking to at school texted me. And I remember looking at my phone and being like, what the hell is this? She just sent me like a text. I have to write her back. We're not gonna get on the phone. I have to like, text and like, so. Which is kind of funny, but like, I. But I still feel like I was just right at that cusp. But that was my experience. And now I think about someone like Ed or Shira, who we just talked, you know, to, who are literally coming up on this stuff, right? Like, you were in 11 watching Dating VSLs and like, you're learning about, like, how to get girls and everything. And it's just incredible the opportunities that you guys are going to have. And you're going to blow people like me and everyone who's like older than 30, like, out of the water in the years to come. So it's really awesome. But with that being said, Ed, let's keep going through questions here.

I'm excited we are bringing back Omezicam Ugua again, which I'm super excited about.

Yes.

So she asked, says people say money loves speed. So do you, Stefan? I feel like I don't do stuff fast. Enough. How do you push yourself to execute stuff faster?

What's up, emezicom? How are you? You're muted right now. She may have been off doing something when you. And she didn't know that her moment was coming. Ed.

Dang. Maybe I caught it at bad time.

Hello?

Oh, there you are.

Oh, there she is.

I was trying to unlock my phone too.

No problem.

Yeah, so, yeah, that's. That's the question. Essentially. I just feel like every time I'm working on something, I just feel like. Especially when I hear that phrase, I feel like, oh, my God, I could be doing stuff much faster. But, you know, it just doesn't seem to go that way for me. And sometimes, to be honest with me, it kind of makes me feel. Feel a little bit upset at myself, which just makes stuff slower and stuff like that. I don't know if that makes sense.

It does. The feeling I get because, for example, you've asked me, like, 20 questions about compliance in the RNBC group, and you obsess over it a little bit. So the reason I bring that up, which is totally fine, and I've answered it. We did an answer on one of these calls, I think the last call as well, we talked about it. What I think about is, to me, I'm guessing it seems to show like a really. You have a really strong attention to detail, and you really want to have mastery over something and make sure that you kind of get it right. And I don't know if you're really a perfectionist, but I do think that there's a degree of mastery and attention to detail that then, because that's such a focus of yours that that's probably what slows you down. Does that seem like fair, or does that seem like I'm just totally making up something about you that's not true?

Yeah. Well, it seems kind of fair. But to be honest with you, then again, I. For the longest time, I struggled with also believing that I was, like, smart enough to do stuff like what we do in our industry because, you know, all the stuff that you get told growing up, like if you don't. If you're not a straight A student, stuff like that. You know, it was really only like, a couple of years ago. And to be honest with you, I still thank that industry for opening my eyes. It was a little bit of network marketing. That's how I started my journey to entrepreneurship a couple of years ago. And, you know, that industry is so big on mindset because, you know, they get. They get a lot of Hate. So you really have to be very strong willed and like your mindset has to be right to be able to do well in that industry. So. But you know, that has continued to, you know, happen. Sometimes I just feel like, yeah, it's about wanting to really get it right, but maybe at the same time wanted to prove myself that, you know, I'm not. Yes, I wasn't book smart in school, but then again, I'm not dumb. Something like that.

I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, you're definitely not dumb. You're super intelligent from everything I've seen. Thank you. Of course. Yeah. And then so I wonder if part of this slowness too is like a self protection thing. Right? Like I don't. Do you feel like there's an inner battle between like what? Like, do you, do you struggle? Do you put stuff off? Like maybe you start working on it, but to get to like the finished, like, is this slow? Are you slow to start? Are you slow to finish? And I'm guessing the answer is slow to finish. Right?

Slow, slow to finish. Sometimes I even completely leave it and I'm just like, I beat myself up about it over and over and it's like, you know, it's a strange thing, to be honest.

Yeah. But I wonder if that's almost like a. And of course I'm no psychologist, but like a self protection or preservation mechanism because like the longer you put it off finishing it, then as long as it's not finished and nobody can criticize you or nobody can say that, hey, you're a fraud or you know, you shouldn't be doing this or you're not smart, whatever it is. And so by kind of taking longer on it, you're sort of, you know, helping to delay a potential pain that maybe subconsciously you feel like could be there and that could, you know, really hurt you were to happen. Yeah, that's a pattern I've seen a lot. I've, you know, experienced it. The first time I recognized it, I had a big presentation for like 200 chiropractors selling them like a marketing package. This is back in 2013 when I was kind of had like an agency and it was like the potential to, you know, make me earn $10,000 a month for the first time ever type thing. And I kept putting it off. And when I really thought about it and waited and really looked into why I was doing it is because I was, you know, afraid. I was just scared. Well, what if it goes badly? What if people don't like it? And all that. And, and realizing that that was why I wasn't finishing it. And so I just wonder about with you, with. With what you're doing. So. So if that's the case and that, you know, you're sort of putting. You're going slower to protect yourself, then for me it would come back to. And if you don't mind, just mute yourself for a second too. Just because I feel a little bit of background noise on it. But I talk to you more. Oh, it's okay. Yeah. I go back to like, what's like the worst outcome that happens, right? What happens if you finish the project and give it to a client and the client says, I don't like it? You know, like, what does that really mean? Does that mean, like, well, let's answer this. Have you. Have you had happy clients?

I'm actually working on landing my first client. Like, the food pain thing I asked you about in the. In the group was for a company that I saw online, then the footprint niche. And then I like what they do, so I'm just kind of rewriting like writing a landing page for their stuff because I think they have something really good. And I've seen all their Facebook ads and it's just going to like their homepage, which is like, horrible. And I'm sure that they're definitely losing money on the ad. They might be making sales. Yes, it's possible. But I feel like, you know, just taking a customer to a landing page that is just your homepage is a disaster. So I'm just doing something for them. And obviously I'm not going to tell them that, you know, that what they're doing is a disaster. I'm just doing that for them. And then when I submit, I'm hoping like, they would like it and then, you know, get me to work with them.

That makes sense. But. And I do feel, though, that there is a bit of a numbers game aspect to it as well. And so I think what you're doing is awesome. And it's something that I've obviously preached myself. But, you know, I think because there's still a chance you're gonna do all that and no one's gonna respond to you. And that doesn't mean that it's because you. You suck or anything. It just is because the right person didn't see it or it wasn't the right time, or they're secretly about to go bankrupt and close the business or whatever it is. So I think you've got to just sort of put yourself out there a Bit more. I would. I would focus on, you know, accepting that what you're doing is good. I mean, you're going through the training, you have the resources, you're in rnbc, you're doing all these things. It's gonna be better than what 95, 98% of people would have sent that way anyway. And then from there, I'd start looking at getting more clients and sort of get it out there. And then what you're gonna find is that there's gonna be clients where what you do is amazing and crushes it. And you're gonna find that sometimes your stuff bombs, but none of that means, you know, means that you should have gone to school or done better and gotten A's in school or that you're stupid or something. It just means that that's the nature of this business. So I think if you kind of think about the outcome and what, like, the worst case really is for any of these things, and then, you know, can you live with that? Can you live with somebody, you know, not your copy, not doing well? And it's like the first thing you ever did. And if you can't, then you got to think about that because it's the first thing you're ever writing, basically for a client. So I think you just have to really. Yeah, I think about that, and I think about how get. Become a little more detached from it. It's okay. It's okay if it fails. It's okay if it doesn't do well. And the only way we get better, every failure is what moves us closer to a success. Right. And that's, like, kind of cliche, but it's super true. Every time we fail, it gets us closer to our win. And so if we didn't fail, we would never win. And so I think if you look at it that way, you just have to get that stuff out there. I don't have the perfect answer, but is that helpful to you?

Yes. Yes, definitely. I see where you're going with everything you're saying.

Okay, good. So when are you gonna be done with what you're working on right now? Because you've been working on that for a little bit now.

Yeah, I gave myself a deadline for the end of this week. Today. I did the unique. I completed the unique mechanism and then the brief, and, you know, hopefully I can start writing the copy tomorrow.

Okay. And you're trying to have it done by, like, Sunday night? Yes. Okay. Yeah, do that. Be done. Be done by Sunday. And then just tell yourself that whatever you get to at that point is good. I mean, look, you're saying these people, you could send them half of it, you know what I mean? You could send them a new lead and a new headline and a new, like, you know, part of the page and be like, hey, let's start here. You don't, you know, you're sending them something for free for them to test. So take a little bit of pressure off yourself, but let me know, post in the RNBC group, because you're in there when you finish it. And if you don't finish it, we're going to talk more about it next week. But let's just say you're going to finish it. Let's get it done.

Yeah, I will. All right. Thank you so much.

All right. Thank you.

All right.

Beautiful. Oh, awesome. Okay, we have another supplement company question here for you from. Yes, we got a question here from Paris D. What's the greatest challenge you face in creating your supplement business? How much would you say it costs to start one? And will you be making a course on this?

Cool.

Hey, Paris.

Hi there. Yeah, so I saw in your email today that you were talking about starting a, like, e commerce business and also, like a supplement business for around $5,000. I guess there's a little controversy going on. There's a couple comments about that not being enough or something, but yeah, and then I also saw in, like, one of your videos, like your YouTube videos that you have, like, you mentioned in one of the comments, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm thinking about my next course being on how to, like, start a supplement business. So, yeah, I was just curious to hear your experience. How much you think it would cost? I think somebody in the comment on my comment said you need a minimum of like 100,000. But yeah, I guess I'm just curious to hear how your journey went.

Yeah, cool. Awesome. And I haven't been on Facebook to see that, but I just wanted to roll my eyes really hard when somebody said 100,000. It's a biggest bullshit I've ever heard in my life. Like, just being super blunt. It's so silly. Look, yeah, I kind of went over this on the previous call that we did, too, but I'll do it again. Like, okay, if you can write your own copy, especially, like, what are your expenses for starting a supplement company? Let's use a supplement company as an example. It's going to be inventory, sales, copy, building out your funnel. Okay. So if you write your own copy, then that's not an expense. Inventory. There's multiple supplement manufacturers who will provide on demand for you, which means that you're only going to pay them when you sell a bottle of your supplement. And they also do fulfillment. So you're only paying for fulfillment and manufacturing when you sell a bottle. So you don't have any inventory costs. So those are out the window too. Merchant processing is free. You don't need, you know, it's not free, but you don't pay for it up front. You pay for it as you make sales. So really, what does that leave? It leaves a CRM, which would be like something that you could start with ClickBank, where they provide a lot of that, or you could do something in Click Funnels and build your funnel on Click Funnels. And I think Click Funnels starts at like $97 a month or something like that. You do need merchant processing, but again, clickbank can handle that. You don't really need a call center to start. You can just use merchant. You could do email support yourself, or you could hire somebody for $10 an hour to answer emails and maybe pay them $400 a month when you're starting out. And you don't need to pay for media or traffic. You don't have to buy Facebook ads, You don't have to buy native ads or buy Google Ads or anything of that nature. You can work with affiliates. So if you have relationships through Facebook groups, through things like this, right? Like if you email me and you say, hey, here's this new supplement like thing I've created, here's a sales letter looking to kind of test it out. I'm paying an X$CPA. And CPA means we're only gonna pay money if somebody buys, you know, do you have a list you could send it to? And if I looked at the page and thought it was good, I'd be like, yeah, let me get this to my team and we'll mail for it. So then we're gonna send traffic, like send, you know, eyeballs to the site. And you're only gonna have to pay us for that traffic if it converts. So, you know, you may pay us $50 for sale or $100 for sale or whatever. There's a little bit of like, you know, maybe there's some tech integrations between building out the funnel and the design and the integrating everything, like to a clickbank or whatever it is. So, you know, maybe that's a couple thousand dollars, but that's. I find it basically impossible to see how it would be, how you'd have to go over $5,000, I just don't see it at all. And then yeah, I do want to make a course at some point for that, this exact reason because I think it's, I think people just overcomplicate stuff. Like look, do you want a really great, amazing custom formulation that you've gotten double blind studies on and research and it has all these patent ingredients like sure, great. But do that after you launch a minimal viable product like and you know, use an on demand formulation that has good ingredients in it, start building up sales and then at that point that's when you can actually like, you know, if you want to then invest in more high end stuff, custom stuff and all of that. But yeah, so I do want to do a course, I'm doing this, a freelancing course with Ian Stanley that we're trying to launch on July 6th. So it's going to be after that, but I'd like to do it. And the same thing applies to almost anything like what I pointed out today. Like you can do drop shipping. How many 18 year olds, 20 year olds have made millions of dollars through drop shipping? Now like a drop shipping is kind of annoying, but all drop shipping is, it's kind of like the on demand model people have. There's giant networks of millions of products that you can sell online and you only pay once you made the sale and then a third party company is holding the product and ships it out. The problem of drop shipping is that it can take like three weeks for fulfillment to happen. So customers can get annoyed. And it's not necessarily scalable. It's scalable to like a couple million, but it's hard to make like $100 million drop shipping business. But within that realm of those products you can do like T shirts, you could do clothing, you could do anything. And then there's print on demand clothing companies and there's print on demand book companies. You want to sell like you can do it on demand. Like you don't have to invest in inventory. It's such a bullshit like myth. And I made a mistake with my own house supplement company where I was spending $250,000 a time in inventory and had no cash flow. And suddenly I was like, you can just do this on demand and you only pay for things once you've sold them. And people were like, yeah. And it was just like an eye opener for me because suddenly all of this cash flow freed up and I was able to scale so much more. And same thing with affiliates. I was buying media, buying email drops, paying People to promote stuff, like paying in advance. And it was costing me all this money. And you're hoping to break even. And then I finally embraced affiliates, and I'm like, these people will just send traffic at their own risk, and I only pay them if I make sales. So suddenly my advertising costs, like, up front, like, go to zero. My risk goes to zero. And my only thing I'm paying for is if stuff goes well. And again, this is, from somebody here, my perspective. I've personally sold at least, I don't know, at least $100 million worth of supplements. And probably if you include things that I've run copy for and been sort of like a partner in. Well, if you include copy of ren, it's like 500, 600 million. But like, even, like more directly involved, like a couple hundred million dollars. I mean, I've done this countless times for, I don't know, dozens of different supplement funnels. So, Paris, I know I kind of went on a bit of a rant on that, but does that help and make sense?

Yeah, that's really cool. It's really helpful. I never really thought about using, like, the affiliate route. I guess I, like, wonder how you were able to kind of, like, budget with, you know, media buying and all that kind of stuff. But you're saying that you kind of just send it off to affiliates that you've, I guess, met through social networking and stuff like that, or.

Yeah, from, you know, events is a great place. So going to Traffic and Conversion Summit and Affiliate Summit, Weston east, and going to masterminds and things of that nature. But also, yeah, just through Facebook groups and communities that you're involved in and being, you know, being active with kind of networking that way. It's totally something cool. And you just say, like, it's a new offer. I think it's great. Check it out if you can test it out. Like, we'd love to give you an X cpa, whatever it is, say. So maybe they're giving them a $50 CPA, which is getting cost per acquisition. You have to risk a little capital on that because if, say, you randomly are only getting $40 per order and you're paying $50 and you might lose some money there, but you usually, if you kind of follow the right steps, you won't. And there are some people who will say, oh, I only send to really proven offers. And usually they're people with really large lists who would be capable of doing thousands of sales over a course of a month or whatever it is. There's a Ton of people out there with smaller lists who are always looking for new things to promote and trying to make money from their list because you're doing them a favor. They have a list of buyers, and they're trying to make more money from that list of buyers. Buyers. So if they can send those buyers to your page and they buy your stuff and you pay them every time they do, they're making a bunch of money from it. There's a lot of marketers who own supplement companies or own info product companies or whatever, and they're making most of their money not on the front end, not even from their sales, but from their email list. And all they're doing is looking for more things to offers, more funnels, more things to send traffic to. Yeah.

So you kind of get your email list built off of somebody else's, like, after they. After they make that first purchase. Is that right?

Yep, 100%. And that's the amazing thing. And then once your email list is built, you know, depending on your goals, you can, you know, build deep relationships and kind of sell more, create new products, which you can still do on demand and throw up landing pages. And once they bought once from you, they'll keep doing it. But in addition to that, if you want to then promote other people's offers, you can too. And then you can do recips. So. So you're like, hey, if you, you know, I'd love for you to send to my page, and then I'd be happy to send to your page. And the big secret there, like, I used to be afraid to promote other people's offers to my health supplement list early on because I was like, well, then they're getting emails from those people who are trying to promote, and they won't buy from me anymore. But that's not what happens. That's the funny thing. It's like, if somebody buys like a supplement once or skincare product once, they're gonna buy more. Like, that's the best person to sell to because they want to keep buying more. It's like what Justin, who's my partner at Copy Accelerator, talks about with upsells, too. If somebody just bought one thing, that's the best person. If someone's never bought turmeric and somebody else has bought turmeric and you're selling turmeric, you'd rather sell to the person who's already bought turmeric before because they're a proven buyer. And it's the same concept with your email list as well.

Yeah. What's Your take on, like, kind of like the older style of like direct mail and stuff like that, Would you. Would you go that route or is that kind of just antiquated in this space?

I don't think it's antiquated, and I think it's a valuable thing that can increase revenue and profitability. But I think early on it would be a mistake and like a waste of money and not necessary. I think I would. I would wait until I have something that's working and proven, and then I would invest money into that because that is gonna cost more money. Typically, you have to rent out the list, write a direct mail promo, which normally the guys who write those things charge a lot of money. The good ones, 30, 50,000, 75,000, plus royalties. And then you don't know if it worked or not for like a month. So, you know. But again, if you have your own list of buyers, then test out direct mail, like for Patriots, which is a large company in the survival space, they do that. They do direct mail to their people. A lot of big companies will do that. But yeah, so I think. I think it's valuable, but I don't think you should need to do it out of the gate.

Yeah, yeah. Sounding like that affiliate idea is definitely interesting. So you just kind of go like you just so you say, for example, you either you hire a copywriter or you are your own copywriter. You create your offer and then you just posted on clickbank or yeah, you.

Get it set up on clickbank and then I would again. Or, you know, you could build your own funnel if you find the people who help you to do that. But yeah, and if you just put it on clickbank, some people might try it out, but I'd be a little bit more wary there. I'd rather have it controlled to where once I have the funnel up, I can build relationships with people who I know and who I trust and get a few of those people to send to it and see how it converts and what the metrics are. And then if the metrics are looking good, then you can take that as ammunition and go to even more people and be like, hey, you know, here's this offer. It's doing great. So and so sent for it and they did awesome. So and so sent for it and they did awesome. You can kind of leverage it, and once you have that proof, then you can really start bringing it out to more and more people and, you know, kind of grow your sales that way.

Yeah.

So how do you, like, how do you pay your Affiliates. Is that all like, I guess automated or.

With ClickBank, it's automated. ClickBank does do I think like a percentage of your sale more often. So people will say like 75% of the front end amount total or whatever it is, but they do it for you automatically. If you're gonna do it not on clickbank then, you know, you have just create payment terms with them. So it could be, you know, every 14 days or it could be every 30 days, like net 30 plus seven. Meaning you'll get paid for like 30 day periods plus seven days. Because we need time to do the accounting and send you the checks. And it'll just depend as someone who can send a lot of traffic and really they're gonna want to get paid faster generally. Whereas somebody who only sends a little bit, like they usually understand they have to wait a little bit longer, but you'll just have to do the accounting and then send out payments via PayPal or Wire or whatever.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right, thanks so much. This has been so eye opening and insightful. I'm appreciate it.

Yeah, I can't wait to go look at whoever was hitting on my stuff and saying a hundred thousand and argue with them after this call. But thank you.

Yeah, it was actually on one of the comments that I like my question in the box, but what. Where was that one of the questions in the box?

Okay.

Yes, sorry.

No, that's great. Well, I'm excited to. Yeah, now we know how I feel. But okay, cool. Ed, what do we. Thank you, Paris.

Thanks. Bye.

Bye.

All right, we got one last question for today from my buddy, Jaz Cortenne. He says I just sent my first email to a list yesterday. Got my first 30 sales for a client. Good job, Jaz.

Nice, Jaz.

They're letting me see the data and I'm still new to interpreting it. Are there any metrics that are important to track what to keep doing and stop doing besides revenue? I'm seeing the percent who added the cartoon percent who reached checkout percent who converted and a Google Doc with a list of people who ordered and their card value.

Cool. What's up, Jaz? You want to add anything to that?

Yeah, I'm totally new to interpreting this and I just want to know what to look at because I want to constantly improve with the email. I want to keep on getting better and I don't really know what numbers to look at to get that feedback.

Okay, perfect. And the email Was this for so 30 sales for a client. So what was the. What's the client Selling.

He sells beard products.

Beard.

Yeah.

Okay, cool. I was like beer or beard? I'm like beer, send me the domain. Beard also. Cool. Yeah. Okay, sweet. So the data you're getting, percentage add to cart, do you know, do you have data on the actual email itself? Like the open rate, click through rate, stuff like that?

Yeah, I can get that because the first email I sent, like I even added, I even asked Ed the other day because I don't even know what's a good open rate and what's not. But the first email apparently has a really good open rate. It was 25%. But he showed me are he can get all those numbers for me. I just don't even know what numbers to ask for.

Right. So yeah, so I'm. I'm going to ask ones that I would be wanting to know because like so I'd want to know. Yeah, on the emails, like the open rate and then the click through rate and then I'd want to know kind of what the average is. Right. So is that like better than average, aligned with average? Is it worse than average? Because if it was, you know, I wanted the email perform really well or not. Because I also want to know too. Like say the open rate is amazing. Like oh my gosh, it was like a 35% open rate but the click through rate is 1% and normally it's 5%. That means that your subject line was great, but your copy in the email was not great or it wasn't congruent with the subject line or something like that. The percentage who added to cart is good to know because what I'm thinking about there is again, I can write an amazing email but with an amazing open rate and an amazing click through rate. But the conversions might be shit. And the reason why is because there was a discount. Right. If I'm like Donald Trump, like hidden heart, like tumor discovered and then like Donald Trump has a heart tumor. This is, you know, crazy. Like quicker to find out. Like the open rates can be huge and the click through rates can be huge. But then if my product's like are you tired of a dry beard? Right? Like nobody's going to buy, everyone's going to be like f you and spam and my conversion rate will suck. So that's kind of the mentality with the email. So knowing, yeah, present the ad to Cart. Reach checkout. Who converted. Those are all good. I think of those the conversion metric is probably the most important because you didn't write. Did you write the sales page too? Or did you Just write the email.

They have a basic landing page they kind of just sourced from an email I wrote for them yesterday. They didn't have anything before. So they have a basic landing page it goes to, and then it goes to the checkout page.

Cool. Do you know what. What percentage converted?

Yeah, I do.

So.

Yesterday.

12.

12.34% added to cart, 8.44% reach checkout, and 4.87% converted.

Okay. That's a good conversion rate, though. What. What. And what was the average order value? Average cart value? 9.

997.

$9.90. So is it. Is the offer a. Like a free trial or is it a. Like a. You'll get a starter kit for 997 or free plus shipping? Or what's. What's the actual offer?

Oh, Stefan, did we lose you?

Yeah.

Oh, am I here now or am I gone?

You're back.

Welcome. Okay. Okay, Sorry. So the conversion rate's good, but. Well, 997, though. So what is the actual offer? Is it a free plus shipping or a free trial or.

It's free plus shipping.

Okay, 4.47. So in that case, the conversion rate could probably be higher. But that's not really your fault because you just. They threw up a landing page really fast. I'd be looking at. Are you more interested. You're more interested in the email performance or like the total funnel performance? Like, realistically, what's kind of the part. Because you wrote the email so you have more control over that? Is that what you're. Are you more interested in that part or what are you thinking?

Overall funnel performance? Cause I can write that too. I just wanted to make more money.

Yeah. So knowing the conversion rate is good, again, knowing that it's a. Are they doing any upsells right now?

No upsells. This is just minimal viable.

Right. So the things I'd be doing for them, I mean, I do a test some more landing pages. Cause I think at a 997. Well, free plus shipping product at 4.47%. Well, let me ask one more question. Was the list pretty targeted? Was it like men who like beard like products, or was it men in general? Or is it just like, people who bought Home and Gardens magazine? Because if it's people who bought Home and gardens magazine, then 4.47%'s like, incredible. If it's like dudes who want to have shiny beards, then 4.47% probably underperformed. So do you know what the list was made up of? Yeah.

So the list comes from anyone who lands on the website and then they get hit with that. That exit pop up and they can enter their email. So it kind of got built up over time from that. And also just for people who actually ordered. So it's about 25ish percent wives who might buy the beard oil or beer products for their husbands, and then 75% guys.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So I think there's opportunity there to increase the conversion rate a pretty decent amount of. Yeah, I think it's fine. 4.47 is not bad. But I would look at opportunities there. I would look at. I personally like the metric of earnings per click. So on the email side, I'd want that metric. Right. So if they grossed 200 and $300. Say they grossed and there was 300 clicks, then it was like a dollar EPC. Right. Which is like, good. I guess that'd be a 10% conversion rate. So it's not accurate. But I'm just trying, you know, but knowing what the earnings per click is is helpful because if I can kind of get that up. And then I would be adding in upsells for sure to get the AOV up more. The big unknown for them is what's the LTV gonna be? Because I'm guessing at the free plus shipping. The goal is that they're gonna, of course, come back and order more or get on a subscription or whatever. And I don't know if they have that data yet, but that's something you do want to keep an eye on. Simon had asked about adding an order bump. What I would say to that is I would totally test that, but I wouldn't make that automatic because what I found is that right now I would actually probably. Yeah, I would still test it, make sure it doesn't hurt conversions. But you might as well, because there's no upsells. So maybe it's like, hey, want to get this bundle of premium male facial wash products for 1999? Yes. And that'll probably increase AOV by a couple of dollars. But once you have upsells, sometimes you may have a lot of people take that order bump, but then fewer people take the upsells, and it affects your overall average order value. So I would be testing it for that reason. But I think you've got the right metrics because I'm just looking at how the email performed and on the funnel. Okay, what's the conversion rate and. And then what's the average order value and what's the lifetime value? Those are the main I wouldn't overcomplicate it. Those are the big things that I'd be looking at right now.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. I wish I could answer more questions. I know I went really deep on some of these and, you know, I'm kind of bummed. Like, I mean, I don't know. I would go. I'll go for 10 more minutes if Ed's okay with it.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. If you're not. If you got a P, man, you know, you let me know.

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.

Don't worry. Let's try to get like one or two more questions. I just really. Because I know there's a lot.

Okay, sounds good. So, guys, vote for whatever question you want next. But I'm going to. Let's see here.

And I might go a little bit faster on these, but I'm not going to give you a surface level answer.

Still, so you never do.

Yeah.

Ooh. Okay. This is a really good question from Isaac. I know Isaac. So Isaac says he's planning on independently releasing a novel using a funnel to boost his aov. He's currently educating in copyright and funnel building, so this be a largely a case study. However, he's only personally found book funnels for nonfiction books. What recommendations do you have in terms of further educating himself or how to structure his offer and funnel to maximize this first business foray? And he says the note the novel will be the first in the series.

Sweet. How you doing, Isaac? Hey, man. I didn't think I was going to be able to get on here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, 100%. I'm glad to have you. And it's a really cool question too, so appreciate it. Yeah. By the way, too really quickly for everybody. One thing I say for you, Isaac, is like, you're somebody who is pretty active in the Facebook groups and you comment and stuff. And so even though we haven't interacted a whole lot, when like, just like Ed was like, oh, I know Isaac. When I've seen you in the chat today, I'm like, oh, cool, Isaac's here. And that just is a quick point to everybody about why it's important to be active. Because now even though you and I don't, like, know each other, like, I feel like I know you some. So I just wanted to point that out to everybody. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's just you.

You always learn things that you don't expect when you're active and stuff like that, and something like this can happen.

So it's like, what do you have to lose?

And you have so much to gain, you know, 100% given what you're doing. Which is really cool because I want to write more novels if I ever have the time. But I would do a couple of things. I would look at what Jason Kutaski is doing. His company is called Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream. He's doing mostly children's books, but that still is still his fiction. He's. He'll sell 5,000, 10,000 copies of books a day. Like, he. His big issue is because he's selling online. He's not registered with, like, you know, these publishers and where the other crap is. Like, he doesn't get listed on the New York Times bestseller list and things like that. But if they did track those metrics, he would act. He's like outselling, you know, like Stephen King sometimes. Right. And he's doing that through, you know, really strong Facebook ads. And then honestly, I haven't looked at his landing pages in a while. We've tested a little bit more of like, long form, but I think it's just really nice, colorful landing pages. It does talk about some of the aspects of the books being like, they're longer, so the children are more engaged, they're designed by educational experts, et cetera. For something like a novel, I'd probably focus on. I would watch what he was doing. I would consider making like a book trailer. So some people will do that where it's like a two minute video that's kind of like a. With like B roll, like, or like stock video and kind of like action oriented. If you had a good video. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I had some ideas from like, for like kind of cinematic, almost like video ads. Because ever since starting with copywriting, it's made me realize how important the thing.

That sells a thing is. So it's like if you build it.

Up, kind of like you're saying it doesn't have to be just a book. It can be like the experience and whatever it is that you really get them to believe in. Yeah, exactly. And then I think the series aspect is really important. I talked with Jason maybe a year and a half ago about doing like an imprint for what he was doing. Cause I just thought it was an interesting niche. And I thought about doing it with my own writing. And then I thought about even starting like a romance novel business. And like, yeah, I had a girl on my team who was like, you know, joke That I could make all these Nicholas Sparks type of books, like, ideas, right? Where it's like, you know, two guys in the cave in Afghanistan and they're like, they're stuck, but then they're thinking back to how they met their true loves and blah, blah, blah, just random stuff like that. And. Well, the big thing that Jason had talked about and to your point was that the series is really vital because once someone buys one book and they're invested in the series and they're much more likely to come back, want to buy more, and so just sort of make it automatic. So having a series and having like a main character who ideally is followed throughout the series is, I think a really important point too. But yeah, look at what Jason's doing. Honestly, you could probably just reach out to him and he might ignore you for a little bit. But if you kept reaching out and said, I'd love like 10 minutes of your time. Keep digging the well.

Yep.

Yeah. And he might even like, I don't know, if you don't totally self publish it, do it. But he may even be like, oh, I'll partner with you. You just never know. And you may not want to, but he does have the ability to drive crazy amounts of traffic to sell books. So, you know, I would look at that. I mean, if you want like an intro, shoot me an email and I'll just, I'll forward it to Jason and I'll do like a reply all with him on it and just tell him. Awesome, thanks. Yeah, just tell me what you're trying to. What the book's about, kind of what your goals are, a little background and then I'll. And again, I don't know if I'll have the time or not, but I think that's a good place for you to start. Well, I really appreciate Staphon. I again, like, I wasn't even expecting it to get my call on today, so this is all just gravy to me. Awesome, man. Yeah, I'm happy to help. Cool. Let's do. Let's do one more.

Let's do it. All right, good question here from. Let's make sure these on. Oh, he's not on. Okay, next one.

Cool.

Got a question here from J.D. krause, Cruz Krause. I think it's Krause. Connective question. How do you use connective in your tech stack? For example, your sales page or just your CRM or your full funnel solution?

Sweet. What's up, jd? How are you?

Hey, good, Stefan, how are you doing?

Well, man, thank you. Yeah, I mean it's a pretty self explanatory question. If you want to add anything to it, feel free to.

Yeah, well I just saw that you recommended it and in the Facebook, one of the Facebook comments or something and I'd never heard of it but I'm. I'm familiar with different CRMs. Morrow post is one that we've used from Canada. I'm really looking for kind of the best tool or tech stack. Love to get your recommendation on what you love for sales pages, what you like for building out full funnels and then for your CRM as well.

Cool.

Yeah, historically I honestly do pretty much everything like kind of custom. I use Connective as a CRM most often. I do have funnels right now that are on Limelight but I think Limelight's fine as well. But I think Connective is better. So typically we're doing like custom HTML for the funnels. Although now with Connective they have Funnel Connect so you can totally build funnels there. Another cool thing you can do with Connective and with Funnel Connect is you can build something in clickfunnels which is really easy and there's like a one click button Funnel Connect where it'll take like the click Funnels code, it'll take a full funnel or page, rip it in Funnel Connect and like it happens like a minute, basically uploads it into like Funnel Connect and it cleans out all of the garbage so that it basically cleans up 95% of the code. So you basically can use clickfunnels to build stuff, import into Funnel Connect in a couple minutes and have it operate way faster and then still use Connective as your CRM. That's a really cool kind of hack that they've created on the analytics side. Yeah, it's really cool. Well, analytics, I mean, you know, the basic, the easiest thing is just like Google Analytics, you can get way more kind of fancier there. And I like we've been using Everflow for one of my businesses which is a way, it's kind of a reporting system and it helps to manage affiliates and give you data on everybody and break down all the important metrics. So I've been really liking Everflow so because even if you use Connective, like it's gonna be good for as a CRM and for like customer stuff and the processing of payments and balancing mids and all this kind of stuff. But Everflow is really nice for kind of looking at how different funnels are performing and all those vital metrics. So I think that that's a really good solution. And then on the email side. Yeah, I think Marrow Posts or Marrow Posts, whatever is awesome. I think it's a little bit expensive and over the top for a lot of people. Historically. Yeah, I always used ontraport historically for my own personal email lists. And what I do, I use ActiveCampaign, but for health supplement stuff it was OnTraport. I do have companies with Marrow Post too, but I probably, I don't know, I've always been happy with ontraport, so I probably just use them. Cool.

Cool.

Could I ask just a really quick maybe like 30 second answer or something?

Sure.

Real estate copywriters. So I've been a real estate investor for years and it just hit me as I was waiting, as I was listening to you talk. I haven't heard you talk much about opportunities writing copy specifically for real estate developments, communities, leasing, auctions, like for big. For Sotheby's or some of these big retail brokers and stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I think people should be. I think that I love. Because I love real estate. I love looking at listings. I love reading even like the descriptions of listings. Right. When people like you look at like a 4 million, 5 million, $10 million home and like the description. And sometimes people are so half assed and sometimes they paint this glorious picture. I think there's tremendous opportunities there. I think if you're the actual realtor or the listing agent, you could be having better like headlines about the house and like something memorable. You could be having something unique about the house. I think it's totally underutilized. There are, you know, people do copy for like real estate investing, like seminars and things of that nature. I mean, Grant Cardone is doing a ton of that. Right. But, but even as far as just specifically to selling real estate, I think copy is extremely applicable to that. But you know, a lot of people who are doing it just they haven't studied copy and they just don't know. Okay.

I just didn't know if you knew of anybody that was crushing it from a freelancer standpoint, focusing specifically on that niche.

No, I don't. But I think it's a very crushable niche. I think that there's really good opportunities there for sure.

Cool.

All right, thanks so much, Staphon. Thanks, Ed.

Awesome. All right, cool. So for anybody whose question, I like that the big takeaway from today in the chat has been that Ed's email list is happening. Did you have a list already or you now are creating one now? You do.

They're just asking for it.

And his breakdown. Yeah, pretty much everyone chat wants to be on Ed's list. So look at that. Secret to how you get a list is just do a radio show. But hey, everybody, thank you guys so much for coming and joining and asking questions. If we didn't get to your question today, I am really sorry. But we will be back next Thursday and just love to be able to spend time with everybody. Please make sure everyone who's watching on the replay here or who listens to this or. Or whatever, just make sure you subscribe on YouTube. If you watch on YouTube, make sure you subscribe if you listen. This is a podcast. Whatever you're using for the podcast stuff, please share these things with your friends. Like in the future calls like the links to beyond them live, the links on YouTube, everything that the more you guys share, the more people we bring on, the better. It really will help me to be motivated to keep doing this because I do want to get this out to as many people as possible. So please help me out spread this as much as possible. We're going so deep. I'm trying to give as much value as I can. Please share this stuff with others. I'll have a replay link for this tomorrow that I'll email it to my list and thank you everyone, so much. Ed, do you have anything you want to add in there?

Have yourselves a great day and don't forget to have some fun.

It can be your signature sign off line from now on.

Ed.

All right.

Who knows? Maybe.

Yeah. All right, thank you everyone. We'll talk soon. Guys, thank you so much.