[RTB:E42] Interviewing Laura Catella Georgi: Super Mom, Copywriter & 7-Figure Brand Owner 🎤

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host, Stefan Georgi and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money and more. And you can also ask my guests those questions, including my amazing guest today, who we'll get to in just a moment. The reason for the name the Road to a Billion is twofold. One, because I've hit around a billion dollars in sales both for my own products and for my clients via copywriting, marketing, direct response, stuff like that. And I want to make an impact in the lives of a billion people over the next 10 years. So start taking calls in about 30 minutes, 45 minutes from now, where you'll be able to put your questions into the Q and A section in Zoom for those who are on the live recording of Zoom. And then my dear friend Ed Ray will review those questions and feed them to myself and my guest. Ed, do you want to go ahead and say hi to everybody here?

Hey, what's up everybody? My name is Ed Ray and I help people get more clients without sacrificing their voice or their integrity.

Boom. Love it. Every time I hear it. So solid. So, yeah, that's Ed Ray. And my guest today is none other than my wife. And yet so much more than just my wife. An amazing marketer and badass. Laura Cattella Giorgi. If you don't know Laura, she is the reason I personally got into copywriting. I didn't even know what copywriting was until I met her during a chance encounter at a poker table at Caesar's palace in 2011. She's a brilliant marketer. She's one of the smartest people I know. She, earlier in her career wrote many of the top Internet marketing offers in places like Warrior Forum. She has launched a seven figure beauty company called Eden Beauty that is doing really well. She is a super mom, an inspiration, a poet, and just an incredible person. I'm so excited for people who are attending to get to know better. So, Laura, thank you for joining us on the show here.

Thank you so much for having me and for that very kind introduction. That was awesome.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm so, so thrilled. And this is so fun. It's unique to get to interview your, your wife. And yet, you know, I'm going to bring it fade. We're not in the same room, we're in the same House, but not the same room. But Laura, I guess I mentioned before the show started, Laura's background is like significantly better than mine. Her background game's on point. Mine is like, I look like I'm in like a boiler room or something. But anyway, Laura, so let's start at the beginning. I mean, I met you in 2011 at a poker table in Caesars. A lot of people have heard that story. And you know, you were a copywriter, right? Like the story for those who don't know it. Very quickly you got seated at the same poker table as I did and somebody at the table asked you what you did for a living. You said, I'm a writer. I asked what kind of writer? Because a, I liked writing and fancied myself to be an aspiring writer of sorts, but also wanted to talk to you because I thought you were super beautiful. And you said, I'm a copywriter. And I said, oh, copywriter, that's so cool. Pulled out my original iPhone or whatever and googled what's the copywriter? Because I didn't know. So at that point in 2011, how long had you already been copywriting? For.

About three years. Prior to that, I was working on and off. I had graduated college in 2008 with an economics degree. I thought I would become an investment banker because I wanted to make a lot of money. And in New York, where I went to school, if you wanted to make a lot of money, you became an investment banker. That's what you did. Of course, 2008, you had the economy crash and the housing bubble and all of that subprime lows. Lehman Brothers disappeared and no investment banks were really hiring. So I took sort of any job that I could get. Here I am with this fancy, expensive degree and I worked at Duane Reade Pharmacy. I worked behind a deli counter making egg sandwiches. And then I took a door to door sales job, which I think you said it was solar panels. It was actually a little bit different. It was trying to get people off of their main energy supplier and just to a different supplier. It was very strange and it was commission only. And I would go to these business owners in the Bronx who would see me with my clipbo and they'd be like, get out, get out. Like, don't even begin to talk to me. So doing that, I learned a lot about the follow up and a lot about releasing the kind of what Ed talks about, like the spiel of selling being like everybody else. And it wasn't until one day at one store that I had Been to like four times. I was tired, it was hot, it was like 100 degrees. I just go and I sit in one of their chairs out front and I'm like, no, I'm not even here to talk to you about the energy thing today. And lo and behold, that was the day I closed him. You know, it was like, okay, fine, well, what is it? So I'll never forget that experience teaching me a lot about being a salesperson.

Yeah, let me ask about that because, like, I have experience going door to door. You know, I've talked a lot of successful marketers have, and entrepreneurs have either done door to door sales or phone sales or both. I did both. Right. I worked in a call center environment and I went door to door doing political fundraising and political canvassing, things like that. And you had your door to door experience as well. So why do you think if you do, you know, I think you do, like, why is door to door sales, like, valuable? Why is it, why does it, you know, why is it kind of like, why does that maybe help to indicate that somebody will have success later on as a marketer or an entrepreneur? And then to that point of when you kind of actually did close that sale, why was it that when you weren't trying to sell them, that you sold them, do you think?

Yeah. So to your first question, I think there are a ton of reasons why door to door sales either culls who actually could be a marketer, an entrepreneur, salesperson, copywriter, because it forces you to have thick skin. You have to be able to take a no. And it gives you an outstanding experience directly listening to who your target is. Sometimes when you're just copywriting, you read forums, you do research in other ways, but you don't have that conversation with that one person at the end of the line, getting to hear their every single objection, really understanding where they're coming from. So that's one of the reasons why I think it's a totally invaluable experience. And the reason why I think I closed that guy that day and then took. Not that I turned it into a technique, but the lessons that I learned from it forward is because it just opened us up to have a conversation instead of me coming and saying, what's your current energy rate? Did you know you could drop it by 10% if you switch? You know, it'd be like, okay, so what, what do you have for me? What is it really? And then we were able to just talk and the pressure was off. I didn't care anymore about closing it So I wasn't like, come on, like, sign it, sign this, sign this. And he was able to let his defenses down because especially with small business owners, you know, they're very often like strapped and margins are tight and it's a big decision for them to switch any sort of contract, buy anything new. So he was able to just be more chill about it, I think.

Yeah, cool, that makes sense. Okay, so you're doing that, you're doing door to door sales in the Bronx. And this is after. Yeah, getting an E. Com degree from Columbia, which is hilarious because people think, oh, Columbia, I'm going to be set. And it's like, not necessarily.

I still loved going there, but I know you did.

I mean, it's amazing that you went, right? I mean, I fucking barely gotten to any colleges at all, but big smarty, but. And the thing, you know, that no one can take away from you. But how did you go from there to copywriting? How did you discover direct response Copywriting? Yeah.

So writing was always a passion of mine. I wrote poetry, I wrote a lot of nonfiction stories, philosophical pieces, stuff like that. And so it was always in the back of my head as something that I wanted to be a part of my life and maybe ideally earn money from in some way. With that on the back in the world in the ether, and me having these lame jobs that did not pay well. And here I was wanting to make a lot of money. I Google the phrase how to make money online. And that fateful night was probably like 11pm I started this search, changed my life forever because I found the Warrior forum, which was the first or one of the first really big Internet marketing forums of the day. People talked a lot about SEO, affiliate marketing, building an email list, clickbank, and this thing called copywriting. And as soon as I learned what copywriting was, especially in this Internet marketing space, I was like, oh yeah, I could do this because I'm already a writer and I'm already a salesperson. Like, great, let's put those two things together and do it. So I would read other sales letters. And again at that time on that forum, specifically, these are people who want to learn how to make money online, right? So there were a lot of courses for sale on affiliate marketing. There were different WordPress plugins for sale to help you monetize your website, all of that stuff. And there was a subsection of the forum called warriors for Hire. And that is where the copywriters and the designers and the coders would offer their services up. And so I wrote my Own sales letter offering my services to write you a sales letter for $97. A sales letter. And I still believe people can do something like this to this day, be it on Facebook or another Internet marketing forum where they just pitch themselves, they're like, hey, hire me. And I just used a lot of compelling writing. I openly addressed the huge obstacle of, oh, but I've never actually done this for a client before because I was like, yeah, that's why. One, I'm doing it for you super cheap to prove myself. And two, if this letter has compelled you, there you go. Click the button and buy a lot of hard closing. I love a hard close. And yeah, I put up that post. The next day I had six people who hired me, so it was just about 600 bucks I made overnight. And then nothing will ever be the same after that. And one of those letters went on to be number one in clickbanks business and investing category. My economics background probably helped a bit there along with my desire, like me knowing the market of people who want to make more money. Yeah. And that was number one in that category for five years. So, yeah, I was a copywriter ever since. Since then my business was referral based for like six, seven years. We met, I talked to you about it, and yeah, a lot of people know how it goes from there. Yeah.

So, I mean, it's amazing. I remember that. And then you'd have the. They'd have the warrior special offers and there was like the WSO of the day or month or whatever it was, and you had like six or seven of those. And so I guess I have multiple questions, so I'm just trying. I'm like, it's great. I mean, well, I guess let's fast forward. So how did you go about. Because when I met you and you know my first sales letter, like where I charge, I think 149 because I learned from you. I'm like, oh, she charged 97. I'm gonna charge, you know, 149 or 147. It was 149 and. And I had two people hire me, not six. So maybe your copy was better than mine. Who knows? Or maybe it was my crazy, you know, my high price points. But yeah, you know what? Even when I met you and early on, like, you know, the challenge was always like, how do you raise your rates? Right. Like, you talk about like, you. Even when I met you were charging like $1,000 or $2,000 sometimes. And that was like a big deal. And we both would have all this Anxiety about. It's easy for me to forget that now. I mean, fortunately, with mentoring a lot of copiers, I kind of can stay grounded in that. But, like, you know, it was a big deal. I remember the first time I charged 497, the first time I charged 9 97, first time I charged $10,000 was like the craziest thing I'd ever done. Right. And I know you had those challenges too, right? So, like, how did you go about kind of figuring out to raise your rates and what were the challenges you faced there? I think that'd be interesting to hear.

Yeah, I mean, you're right. It was such a big deal. And some of the challenges I faced were prospective clients saying to me, oh, you know, like, I can't afford it or it's not in my budget or it's too expensive. And I think there's so many factors that actually come into play for you as the copywriter to fix this problem. One, you have to be comfortable letting the prospective deal go. Like, you just have to. There are like, so many other deals right around the corner, but if you say yes to this shitty one or one that's not working for you right now, then you're not going to get to those other ones. Two, you have to make sure you're in the right circles of people, the right circles of prospective clients who understand the value and who are already having some success so that they have the budget to invest in this new project or in this improvement on a project or on this new asset, whatever it may be, because I started with such a low price point and I was on the Warrior forum where a lot of products that I wrote copy for were as inexpensive as $7, those clients are only going to have so much money to spend. But if I get in a circle of people who are selling higher ticket products, who have 10 other offers that are already working so they have more money to invest, that's going to be a totally different pool that I'm swimming in than this one pool. So you want to make sure you're swimming in the right pool for you. And then finally, I know something that you teach everybody in Copy Accelerator is about doing the math for a client, right. So that their investment in you is painted as exactly that, an investment and not a cost. So, you know, well, if you do 20 sales a day at $100 average cart, that's going to make you this much money a day. And you've paid for me, like, day one, doing the math like that. So those three things But I really think the. One of the most important ones and the hardest for people to actually follow through, but I promise it was a game changer for me, is saying no to the deal. Just saying, hey, you know, if I find another writer who's a good fit for this, I'll be sure to connect you to. But I can't do it. A blind leap of faith. But it's like, try it once. You know, just try it once. See what happens.

Yeah, I mean, I think another. Another secret, too, that kind of. Is that a lot of the time when you say no to somebody, right? Because they start trying to haggle you on price or whatever, and then you're like, oh, I'll refer you to somebody else. Then they immediately are like, well, no, no, no. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, you know, actually, I mean, you know, can you go down, like, you know, like, 3% or something that you frankly are okay doing? Right? And then you may be like, okay, sure. I'd say about half the time you tell somebody, like, oh, no, I can't do it for that price. Like, and this is even for me at high, like, amounts. Right? But, like, even back in the day, it was the same thing. Half the time they'd be like, fine, okay, fine, I'll hire you.

Yeah, that's true. And even if it's like a week or two later, it might not be that they're immediately like, oh, okay, fine. But you will have released it. And then, lo and behold, they'll come back and be like, I found a way, you know, to make this work. Yeah, absolutely. And then another huge thing that I always did was anytime I did level up and I, you know, hit that client goal. You know, when I got my first 10k letter, my first 25k letter, I was like, okay, that's my new minimum. The market has decided, like, I'm never going back backwards from there. So I think that'll be really helpful people. For people too. Like, that's just a hard rule that you follow now. Okay, that's my minimum.

Yeah, I love that. That. That's awesome. So fast forwarding ahead, why did you decide to stop writing copy for clients?

Pregnancy was a very large factor. Yeah, we were blessed to become pregnant. I became really, really tired, and I had the luxury of being married to you, who. Super successful person and was able to support us financially, which was strange. A strange feeling because my whole, you know, adult life, I was supporting myself. And, you know, I enjoy that feeling of independence and accomplishment that comes with that. But I Remember you and I having a conversation over lunch? Like me basically asking, can I really take this break? You know, are you cool with that? No. Should I do it? And then you're like, yeah, like, absolutely. So that was about a year and a half break that I took from any client work. And during that time, you know, I conceptualized Eden Beauty. So when I came back to work, it was on my own project and not doing stuff for clients anymore. And a big factor in the Eden Beauty thing is, you know, for writing for clients for over 10 years, you learn a shit ton about everything else that's involved in, in marketing and building a company and building a brand. Of course, not everything. And the lessons never stop. The city never stops being built, built. But I really wanted to apply all of the knowledge that I had gained over those years into something for me and something that my family, my daughter can be proud of too.

Yeah, absolutely. And as you started, I mean, if Eden Beauty. So I guess, good. I'd love if you could tell people what is Eden Beauty? And you know, and then, yeah, what's been going on? What does the growth look like? What's the journey looked like? What are the challenges and struggles you faced with it? You know, be as candid as you feel to be about everything.

Sure, I'll be super candid. Yeah. We are a luxury skincare company that uses natural, vegan, cruelty free ingredients. All of our formulations are targeted towards acne, dark spots and hyperpigmentation and scarring. We're really one of the few brands with natural ingredients that help with these issues. We do that by promoting overall balance in the skin rather than stripping it. You don't have acne because you're dirty or because your hormones are out of whack. It's issues with the microbes on your face and all that. You can read some of my long form copy on that stuff@edenbeautyskin.com and we started officially in January of 2020 and just at the end of 2020, we did cross the 7 figure in revenue mark at about 15% profit margin for the year. So for our first year in business, I was super duper proud of that. Right after that. That was all through Facebook media buying that I did. And then my Facebook account ad account got shut down and it was traumatic for sure. You know, I was like, oh man, I finally got to this place of real confidence and talking about how much I crush it and then just like.

Oh, she freeze or did I freeze?

I was going to get it back. I did eventually but that.

Go ahead.

Yeah, but that lesson, I feel like the biggest lesson there is that any challenge that comes is an opportunity. It's even a guideline for you to pave the new road so that now you don't have that single road, that single point of failure. Hey, I'm going to. We're going to break that for you. So now you have another road, and then you have two roads and three roads and four roads, and so that. And that never stops. Like, that will always continue. So that's what that taught me. So during the first few months that my ad account was shut down, you know, I really worked on remonetizing my existing customers through our email list. We really improved our social and organic traffic. And even now with the Facebook, you know, ads back, I. First of all, those other roads are built. And now I'm also working on our first affiliate marketing for traffic or influencer marketing. Yeah. So that again, more roads, like the. The road shut down forced me to build more roads, and ultimately I'm grateful for it.

Yeah, that's amazing. And for people who, who know us or whatever, I mean, I want to also, I guess stress, like, I really haven't helped Laura very much beat in beauty at all. And I, like, not just because of my own bandwidth and like, you know, maybe, like, I. I don't know. I'm not. I don't hope this doesn't make me sound like an asshole, but I've been like, oh, yeah, babe, you should do that. Good luck. And then. But I mean, that's cool. I mean, you know, and then you update me and we'll. Obviously, we talk about business together and stuff. But I mean, this is, you know, it's just you using your knowledge, your experience, and then. And also learning. I mean, Cause to be fair, like, there's a couple times where I've said stuff to you where I'm like, oh, don't do this. And you're like, I'm going to do it. And then you've been like, oh, I should have done that. And I'm like, I told you. But like, I go back to, like, people have to make their own mistakes and learn as well. You know, I'm thinking specifically of, like, some of the agency stuff, like, right, you really want to hire, like a media buying agency. And you were doing really well buying Facebook ads on your own. And I was like, most agencies suck. And you're like, nah, I'm gonna hire an agency. And then it was like, you know, six months later, and you're like, where'd all my sales go?

Yeah, it started well and then.

But, I mean, the point just being that, you know, it is. It's all you and crushing it.

Thank you. I would love for you to offer a split test of my control headline, because I can't beat this damn thing no matter how hard I try. So that would be a lot of fun. And we'll update everyone if I can wrangle that out of Stefan and he beats me.

Yeah, I'll do that, because I'm trying to do more e comm stuff and, like, nobody wants to, like, hire me to do it. And every time I do it, it's like, I, like, crush people's controls, but, like, apparently nobody.

I don't know.

But it's my own Chris, so I want to let Ed ask some questions. But first, I do one thing I want. I mean, you know, I want to make this about. About you. But since you're my wife and it's my podcast, I would think it might be fun if you shared with people who are, you know, watching, listening, or going to later what are, like, two things about me, maybe, that most people don't know, that you think they should know or that might be interesting for them. And this is not, like, a setup for you to say a bunch of nice stuff. And it can be embarrassing stuff about how I snore, whatever. Like, you know, I don't care. I just think that might be fun to hear.

Yeah, that's a great question. It's hard to think of something that people might not know because you're such an open book. And that's one of the things I love about you so much. And I think that's what a lot of other people love about you, too. You know, you. You're vulnerable. You don't, like, play it too cool. You don't really keep many, many secrets, you know, you're not a secretive guy. You do snore. That is true. Some nights. Some nights it's better than others. Sometimes I kick him in the leg to stop him. Then I'll stop for five minutes. I can fall asleep. And then he picks back up again. He never notices that Stefan is weird with his shoes. Some of you may know this. Whenever he takes off his shoes, he can't leave them on the floor. He has to put them up on a surface. So it'll be like a coffee table or a couch, kitchen counter. His shoes are there. I don't know why they walk on the ground all day, but once they're off, his Feet, they cannot stay on the ground. Drives me nuts. Yeah, so I got that one. I did the shoes.

Yeah. That's a good one. Well, you know, now I have a dog, so now I have an excuse because the dog will, like, chew on the shoes. So, you know, that's a new development. So I don't know where that one came from.

I just really think that who you present yourself to be online is who you really are. You know, there's no facade there. Like, that's you when you're sassy and when you're vulnerable, when you're funny, when you're cocky. Like, all of it is just authentically you.

No. Well, thank you. I really try, because I just. I felt. I came to the realization that it's way more exhausting and taxing to be fake than it is to be authentic. Right. It's like trying to be someone you're not all the time is, like. Is exhausting. Not that I was that person before, but just, like, thinking about it intellectually and, you know, it's, like, way easier to just be like, hey, this is me. Here's my flaws. Here's my great stuff. Here's what I have to offer the world. Here's where I could use help. Like, it just. Just seems way. You know, it's so much easier than trying to keep up some, you know, appearance all the time. So. Thanks for saying that, Laura. Now, I know we have some questions in the Q and A, and we're definitely gonna get to those. And. And before we do that, Ed, do you have any questions for Laura?

I do not.

Really? Well, not because someone ask Laura more questions. Should we talk about our relationship at all? What do you think? I mean, let's, like. Let's go there for five to 10 minutes, and then we'll go to the Q and A's then, because I'd love to. You know, I don't know. It might be interesting. We are married after all. So, like, what are. What do you. What do you think have been some of the keys to us having. You know what? I think we would both consider a pretty successful relationship. You know, Like, I think we're both going back to not going to act. It's like we're not. Like, publicly we pretend we like each other, but, like, we secretly hate each other or we, like, you know, bicker or, like, any of that stuff. It's like we, you know, I mean, I don't know, we just really, truly love each other and have a good relationship. So what are some of the Keys that you think have made our relationship, you know, strong and successful.

Well, you know what I'm going to say. Communication, absolutely. And it's took years of practice and developing that, but our ability to. And we so rarely fight or argue. But if any tension comes up, one of us is always pretty quick and pretty earnest in how we say, hey, you know, I was snippy at you because of this. And it could be this totally, you know, external factor and we just get to the root of it and squash it. I think that's a hugely important thing. Getting to the real root of the issue instead of, oh, you said this or you left your shoes here. Like, what's the real thing that's bothering me? Right. Is it like a lack of consideration? Is it that one of us is. We've brought this up before and this is resurfacing again, whatever it may be, getting to that real important part and then both of us just being so understanding of one another, you know, could be, hey, I was snippy because I was stressed about this work thing or I'm dissatisfied here. And, you know, we can both hold space for each other and accept that and yeah, just treat each other with love and respect. So that's one of the biggest ones.

Yeah. That's awesome. And one more question and then we will switch to the Q and A's. But where do you see us in five years? Our relationship and our family? Where are we in five years? When you look into the future.

That's a really good question. It's a little challenging for me with ADHD and poor executive functioning to think that far ahead, but I know that we'll be happy together. Yeah. The possibility of another child is. It's growing. I used to be very firmly one and done, but little by little it's creeping. I know, Stop. So, yeah, that would be amazing. Or just another dog. Either way, that's fine too. Or another cats. I would love for us to have a home in New York that we can visit regularly within that time, continuing to support each other, build our empires together, have a jet, have a boat, help a ton of people. I would love for you to have published a couple of books by then because I know that's something that's really important to you. Yeah. Just happy. Cool.

Yeah, I like that. I like that. She's a simple girl. Simple five year plans, just a jed boat, you know, just the basics. But those are things we. I mean, those are things we talked about since we were young. Right. I mean, it's like I Always wanted like a, like a jet and like, I still do. It's not like an like my great life goal to like get a private jet, but I think it would be fucking cool, right? And it is a great life goal. It's a great life goal. It's not like the goal. It's like not why I'm doing what I'm doing. That's what I mean. But like. But yeah, you're right, Ed. It's, you know, obviously it'll be great.

I would also love for us to collaborate in some way on a project that helps other people become entrepreneurs or really successful freelancers, that gives them the mindset, tools, you know, the hacks, the tricks, all of that stuff. That would be a lot of fun for me also to do that with you.

Yeah, I agree. That'd be super fun. Cool. Maybe let's have our people talk. Maybe. Awesome. So let's go to the Q and A's. Let's have some questions and what we got?

Beautiful. All right, well, we have. Let's see here. First question here from Luca, a two parter. One for Stefan. Any co host though. One for Stephen about the NFL and then one for Eden Beauty.

So. Okay, cool. What's up, Luca? I'm giving you. Sorry, I'm giving you coast. You have an out.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Oh, I was just wondering if there was anything cool going on that your agency because of the NFL drafts today. Yeah, so for that one too. For the agency, like probably. But I honestly, I'm so bad about that. Like, I like, need to. I don't know. I know we have players and who we think will get drafted, but I honestly don't even know like which ones and stuff. So. That's a terrible answer. But that's what happens when you own 5% of it. So I got to find that out. I usually have them like send me a list of what I should be paying attention to and I've just been so busy, I haven't so. Terrible answer. But that's the truth, Luca. And then regarding the second part was about, well, I guess of Laura and how Eating Beauty was going, which you kind of answered already. Laura, I guess maybe if you want to talk to the next steps part again. So you have it up on clickbank now, right? And you have a special offer on Clickbank and stuff like that.

Yeah. So we launched a brand new, totally custom product which is a probiotic for your skin because your skin has a whole microorganism community, especially on your face. They're tiny mites that eat the oil that secretes in our pores. It's totally wild. And so many commercial products wreck that microbial population, just like antibiotics tend to do in our guts. So we created a probiotic for the skin. It's called Skin Win. And that offer specifically we've just launched on ClickBank last week. So it's really fun for me to work sort of that new traffic source and create those connections with affiliate partners. And tests are going to be rolling out to that starting next week. So that is really exciting. I would love for Skinwind to become a hugely popular product. It's wonderful for both men and women. So it's our first really unisex product, and I think that that could just get a lot of press, maybe end up in some retail stores. So that's what's all in the works there.

Yeah, that question was posted early, but, yeah, you kind of got into some of that stuff, so. But anyway, appreciate you guys and it was fun hearing you guys talk. Thank you. Thanks, Luca. Yeah. Rich said, do you need a negotiator to put a deal together with Laura? Yeah, if I did, you know, you'd be my negotiator. You'd be the one I would turn to in a heartbeat. Laura, real quick, before we go to more Q and A's, let's talk about the challenges of being a mom and a wife and all the things you do and trying to grow Eden Beauty. Because, I mean, you know, it's like you do have. Because, I mean, you know, it's such a good brand and you're making sales and you've got this stuff queued up, but, you know, you can only put so many hours a day into it. How do you. How do you balance those two things with those that, you know, the business and the personal? I guess, Yeah.

I just try really hard. I don't think that I'm perfect at it. The time I spend with our daughter, I really try to put that first. And anytime that I'm with her and the mental chatter of, oh, I got to get back to this person, or I got to set this up for the business, I really just tried to turn it off for that time that she and I are together, because I'm never going to get these moments with her back. So that's just constant effort. And then I really try to take advantage of any. If she's playing for 10 minutes, like, what's the most productive thing I can do in 10 minutes? I mean, it could be, you know, again, reaching out to somebody that I have to talk to about something. Could be firing that email off. Could be quickly, like setting up a split test on a Facebook ad. So I try to kind of have those tasks filed away so that when the opportunity presents itself, I could grab it and get it done. And I think always being communicative with you about, hey, babe, I need 30 minutes to do this, like, at some point today. So that. Because, you know, you're always willing and available to help, but you're not a mind reader, right? You're not going to know that I need the hands unless I tell you. So that's another factor in why our communication with one another is so important. So that you could then step in, you know, take Eden out to Clay for a little bit and I could get something done that needs to be done. But if I never told you, you know, it wouldn't happen until. Who knows when you. I know you play with our daughter on your own, but I might hired by that point, you know, so.

No, that's a really good one, I think, for people because, like, yeah, there are. There have been times where it's like, I'm working on something and then I like, you know, get our. I'm usually the one who gets her daughter up in the morning because I'm an early bird and I want Laura to be able to like, you know, sleep in and stuff. And she does. And it's not until like 10, but she'll sleep till like 7:30 or 8 or whatever. And. But there's been times where. But then it's like, okay, now you're up. And in my head I'm like, all right, cool, now I can go back to work because I'm doing. I'm in the middle of something. I took a break to get our daughter up. But then, you know, you go to your computer and you start working on something and then it's like an hour later and I'm like, resentful because I'm like, well, I was in the middle of doing something and now, you know, like, like, doesn't Lauren know that, like, I was in the mode of doing something, but it's like, no, you don't necessarily know. And then same thing with you where it's like, you know, if I'm like, hey, like, you know, go spend time with our daughter. I'm doing something. If I'm like, just like, basically like, like this only. It's only happened a few times, but it was because of. Again, Communication. Whereas, like, now what we tend to do is like, I'll be like, hey, just like you. Right. I'll do the same thing. Like, I'm gonna need a couple hours tomorrow where I have to get this stuff done, you know. But if you need time in the afternoon, I can take, you know, Ian to the playground or the beach or whatever it is, or, hey, I've got these calls, like, I have a call at 8 o' clock so I can get Ian up, but I have to wake you up, like, if you're not up by like 7:45, so that you can take over. And then you do the same thing with me. And that. That's been immensely helpful. It's not like per. There's still times where I'm like, I wish I could just work all day because I have a bunch of stuff I want to get done. And you know, but. But at the same time, if I did that, I would miss out on all these amazing moments with my family. And so, yeah, I just think that communication, like you said, has just been really valuable for us. So I wanted to point that out for people.

Yeah. And I think if anybody can do it, especially if you're also a wife and mom, if you could get space outside of the home and then you're able to spend, even if it's at Starbucks or whatever, at a coffee shop and you could spend a few hours there, it's immensely helpful because if you're anything like me, like, I could be in my office working, but if I hear Eden, you know, like, my, I'm off the road, my attention has shifted and it's really like challenging over and over again to switch gears back to doing work on the computer. So even if you could just do two hours, like at a coffee shop, you're going to get so much more done and you're going to feel so much more accomplished than those same two hours spent at home, if your kid is at home. So do that more often.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's been a really good one for you. Awesome. Cool. Let's return to the Q and A's.

Absolutely. Next up is a question from John about if Laura had any mentors.

So, John. Hey, what's going on, y'? All? How you doing? Doing good. This has been awesome to kind of hear y' all interacting all this stuff. And I love the. The story earlier of Laura was saying about how one of her very first sales letters was kind of a five year control. And I was just kind of wondering if you had any Kind of big mentors when you were first getting started or this is just all like self taught stuff.

Yeah, it's mostly self taught. I've had like short term mentors and mastermind groups and I always try to look at what other people are doing and model after them. But in terms of copywriting, and I say this to a lot of people too, you really learn the most by doing it. So I'm a big believer in if somebody says but I've never written in financial or I've never written in health, like, well there's only one way to get over that and that's to do it. And if you can have the time away from your own work, if you maybe write a financial piece on spec or if you do it just to do it, to have it in your portfolio and you're able to spend a month away from it and then look at it with those fresh eyes as if you were reading somebody else's work and then critique it really, really hard. Like give yourself in line comments, shoot a loom video critiquing yourself like you would another letter. I just think that that's going to be some of the most invaluable experience you're going to get. So that's the sort of thing that I would do early on. Like for that letter I read like the top five, you know, financial letters on ClickBank. Broke down what I thought was good modeled after that. Added my own twist to it. I was really super into NLP neuro linguistic programming. So I used a ton of NLP tricks throughout the letter. I still love doing that. Um, mostly because I find it so fun and, and yeah, that was how I did it.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I hope that answer was helpful. Yeah, definitely.

Thanks.

Laura.

What are a few examples of NLP tricks? Or how could somebody incorporate NLP into their copy?

Sure. A really simple one is I assume the sale and use the future tense. So I'll say things like when you click the buy button below you'll see our checkout page. You will fill out your order details. You know, imagine the stopwatch zooming left and right and you can do that all throughout. So you know when you read the three step self assessment below. So that would be one that hypnotizes them into continuing to consume, you know, your piece as well as getting them to buy. Painting the picture after the fact. You know, when the package arrives at your door, you'll open it and smell it and love it. That's one of my favorites.

Cool. Awesome. Ed, let's Keep rocking with these questions.

Keep rocking and rolling. All right, next up, we got Federico.

Sup? What's up, Fed? He wants to come on or not? And if he doesn't, we can always just read it. But we can. Fed one, what's up?

Hey.

Hey. How you doing? I'm fine. So, first off, sorry for bad English, you know. You know it. If you're cool for. For you. I just tell you my question and I quit my. I don't. I don't know the word. So I just told you my question. Okay. Okay, sorry. What's the best part of being offer owner to you, Laura? You are a successful woman, so I just question.

The best part. All of it. Honestly, I love all of it. I love writing the copy for my own products. I love building the user experience, thinking about packaging, delivery times, post purchase, follow up. That was one of the reasons why I really desired to outsource my media buying. As soon as I got it to a place that I thought I would be able to hand it off because then I could just work on everything that is getting repeat customers, right? Like building that experience so they come back and buy again. And then my media buying team could do that front end acquisition. I really love that part of it. It's like a mixture of math, right? Like, okay, we need this sequence to go out at this time because it generates this much and it performs at this rate. And the art of how do I give them a beautiful experience that makes them happy. I really like combining those two things together.

Cool. Awesome. Well, Faye, hopefully, yeah, hopefully. That was helpful. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right, Grant's not on to ask this call, so I'm gonna. Oh, yes, he is.

There he is. There he is. Look at him, man.

All right, so he asked about the transition to your own business and what it was like.

Cool. Grant. What's up, buddy?

Hey, Stefan. How are you?

Good.

Hey, Laura, how are you?

Hi, Grant. I'm good, thank you.

Uh, yeah, so I. I don't know if maybe I missed this while I was gone for like 15 minutes, but I was just really curious on kind of your transition from. From writing copy full time. I mean, I know it was a lot of. It was, you know, being having a kid, and then after that, just kind of what. What led you to, you know, want to start your own thing, kind of how you. How you came up with what you wanted to do, and then just kind of some. Some big lessons along the way, what you wish you would have known and stuff like that.

Yeah. I'm actually really glad you asked this because I want to bring up, you know, Stefan will always talk about how I introduced him to copywriting, but I think a really cool thing is that he was really the one who put me on to getting to that next level and building my own offer and starting my own company, because he did it. So, you know, he went from being an amazing freelance copywriter, really high earning. And I'll never forget when he had the idea for Holy Land Health in our red Toyota Tundra. He's just driving down the road and he thinks of it and I'm like, you know, he's like, you know, supplements with biblical ingredients. And I'm like, that's a really great idea. And so he went on and built that company and it was really, really inspiring to me. So after I became pregnant and had my daughter and took that break, I was like, okay, I want to do it too. It's my turn to also do it. So he was a huge inspiration to me.

That's amazing. That's really an amazing story. What are some of the biggest lessons along the way? Kind of things you wish you would have known, knowing what you know now and some of the stuff that, you know you did right, that, you know, you think other people should do the same and stuff like that?

Yeah. I mean, there's so many lessons and they're constant. I think being a sponge and not being rigid in what you expect to happen will help you tremendously because there are always going to be surprises. Like, again, I thought at the end of last year, I'm like, okay, were humming, I got this. And then overnight I have no traffic. I had scaled up like my customer support team, like my project management team. I made all these hires and then all of a sudden my revenue drops by 75% and I can't support that. So that was a painful experience. But if I was so rigid, I mean, I might have quit, you know, who knows? But since I understand that and it, you know, I still have to digest it, of course it still hurts. But since I understand and I'm part of these communities with these other business owners, I learned through them that this is all just a part of the process. And again, those setbacks are giving me opportunities to build a more robust business. So since I'm able to have that mindset, even though there are moments of pain and tears and agony, I'm able to keep going. I would say that that's one of the most important things because you never know what something is going to Be. You can plan for as long as you like, but until you know your hands are in the clay, you really don't know what's going to form.

That's amazing. Thank you so much for the words of wisdom.

Hey, thank you.

Awesome, Laura. Cool. Let's keep.

Keep rocking.

Rolling questions. Let's do it.

This is a pretty straightforward question from, I guess, Jennifer about clinicals for product claims.

Hold on.

Oh, she's not here. So the question is, do you have clinicals for your product claims?

I don't know. That means.

Yeah. So some of our ingredients have had clinical trials done on them, and some of my formulators and suppliers will provide me, like, every study that's ever been done on any ingredient that they include in my product. But we at Eat of Beauty have not conducted any of our own clinical trials now.

Yeah. Which is pretty common. I mean, eventually you may get there, but like, yeah, I don't know, especially with skincare, but. But couple of people. Like, I have not. Vox is it. Vox was the one that does, like, the Aurora, which is one that gives you, like, like gnarly, like, they're like, they're so in depth of all of their, like, sort of, like, studies, and they're like, they have, like a team of expert formulators who, like, sor.

Yeah, Vora.

Yeah, Vora. Yeah, they really are a.

They're amazing to work with.

Yeah, they're super cool.

All right, Chad's got a question about the skin, the skincare niche.

Cool. What up, Chad? Come on, come on. What up, brother? What's up?

Hey, Laura, with your niche, I'm guessing you're clearly passionate about it, but with. If it had not been a proven niche, would you have still entered it?

I like to think so, because I really believe that anything is a niche. I mean, I would talk about how I love business so much that I don't care what it is. I was like, I could build a button business. And then the more times I said button business, I was like, you could source these cool rocks and gems to make buttons. You could talk about upcycling shirts by changing the buttons. And then I had all these crazy ideas for a button business and I could totally see, like, yeah, it'd be a micro niche. But if you own the micro niche, like, hey, that's great. You know, wooden watches are a niche, like, right? Yeah. Grant said custom buttons would be dope. I mean, I think so. Yeah. You could design your own buttons, do a whole print on demand button thing. Does that answer your question?

Yeah, it does it does. I'm just kind of in limbo right now, and I feel drawn. Certain things, and I wouldn't say they're big niches or proven niches or I don't even know how I would describe them, but I do think that if you're pulled towards something, there's a reason. And so, as somebody who's part of a power couple, I do appreciate that perspective.

Yes, absolutely. You being pulled to it. I forget the etymology of the word enthusiasm, but it basically means that your energy towards something is enough, is the reason that you should pursue it. That's like the Greek breakdown of the word. So what. What niches are you feeling this pull towards?

For me, it would be Jiu Jitsu, and there's a few ideas that I had. They're not well fleshed out ideas, but I know that, as you said, if you're pulled towards something, there's probably something there. So am I. Do I trust my instinct? Or do I say, do I temper that instinct with wisdom of people who have, you know, been in the trenches of business?

Trust your instinct. Absolutely. And just think, what is like the. What's the smallest, you know, least intensive time and capital intensive way that you can get your feet into this market? You know, maybe it's partnering with somebody who already has, like, some sort of Jiu Jitsu training or group or community, whatever it may be putting out a YouTube video on it. I don't know what you want to do, but there are ways that you can see if your instinct is right without, you know, going full ham right out of the gate.

Yeah, it was. The idea that I had this morning was a journal. There's a few ideas that I've had in the past that I think would work with Jiu Jitsu. It's a very small community. It is growing. I don't want to step on it. If I can work with people rather than compete against them, I think that would be ideal. But make no mistake, I'm no stranger, and I'm not afraid to compete as well. So I think that would be the easiest thing to do.

Yeah, that's very cool, I think. Is it Carlos Redlich who has a big Jiu Jitsu Facebook group? I think. Do you know Carlos Rudolph? I could connect you to him afterwards after this.

Yeah, I would appreciate that. I haven't heard the name.

Oh, yeah, wonderful. He's a good copywriter also, so I'd be happy to do that.

Cool. Sweet. Connections on rtv. Perfect. Ed, what else we got?

We got grilleen up next, girl, about mindset issues with business.

Girl. What's up?

Hey, guys, what's up?

How you doing?

Feel like I haven't been on you in forever.

We've missing you. Gotta figure out the big guns to get you back, you know. That's funny.

Yeah. My question is just as a mindset issues, but basically, how do you deal with any frustrations or self doubt or feelings of like, unease or lack of confidence? Like you don't feel like you know what you're doing when it comes to your business? Assuming you've felt that way before. Yeah, I mean, I have felt that way before. I feel that way frequently. So the first thing I want you to know is that we all feel that way. I think everybody feels that way. You know, there are times where Stefan will walk in feeling frustrated, you know, over something or another, wondering if he's doing, you know, what he should be doing given a certain situation. There are times that I feel that way. So I think first, just understanding that that's normal and giving yourself some space and time to let yourself have that emotion. It's always good to check your priorities, like, what is my ultimate goal out of this business, out of this partnership? What is it that I really want? Is this trial or tribulation actually getting me towards that? Because it often is. In some way it's showing up for you to figure it out and to fix it so that you can ultimately be better. And then occasionally that problem will be an indicator. You know, hey, it's. It's time to stop. It's time to pivot, it's time to change. But you don't know until you really give it the space and time and take it seriously. I wouldn't say, oh, I'm frustrated. Like, repress it, repress it, repress it. Try to analyze it and figure out why is that happening. Okay. And is that specifically what you do? Like, are these the steps that you do? I'm just curious. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I do. I mean, I think I could do it even more. I think if maybe I took the time to journal about it, spend five, ten minutes a day kind of living in that space, working through my frustrations, the root cause, what I can do about it. If I put something like that down on paper every day or a few days a week for five to 10 minutes, I think it would help me a ton. I might start doing it. So thank you. Cool.

Awesome.

All right. Thanks, Laura.

Sweet. And then we got that one last one from Helen. I know she can't. Come on. But if you want to read it out.

So Helen says, laura, I'm a mother of an 8 month old. I often find myself overwhelmed, taking care of her, keeping up with chores. I want to write copy, but I fear not being able to meet client expectations or due dates. Do you have advice on juggling a business and Ready and raising Eden?

Yeah, absolutely. I have a couple different thoughts about that. So one, any opportunity that you get for you to set the deadline, say, I'll have it for you in three weeks. Just set one that is a bit further out than what you would expect. Give yourself more time. Usually there's so many clients who be like, yeah, that's a totally fine turnaround time. But the caveat to that is that there's something called Pareto's principle, which is like, it'll always fit the time. So if you give yourself three weeks, you'll take three weeks. If you give yourself two weeks, you'll take two weeks. Like gas in a chamber will always fill the chamber, right? So that's how it works with your time. If you're serious about meeting your deadlines, you'll get it done. And so I know that so many freelance copywriters struggle with meeting deadlines, but I have to tell you, it was a huge key to my success as a freelancer was delivering beautiful work on time. And by beautiful, I mean visually beautiful. In the word document, sub headlines, text decoration, graphic like tips for what graphical elements should go in which places, what color. The buy button should be like that the day it was due or the day before. There'll be clients who haven't even read the letter, but because I turned it in on time, have hired me for the next one. So don't underestimate how important it is to simply turn in your work on time. And if you prioritize that, I believe that you will get it done. If you have to let your baby nap for an extra 30 minutes for you to get it done, that is fine. If you got to put them in the bouncer chair for an extra 30 minutes, that's also fine.

Yeah, I love that. Laura and I think that people, two things I noticed with copiers all the time is they create these hardcore deadlines for themselves that the client hasn't even asked for. Right? So there's that I see all the time people are like, I'm like, hey, you know, this needs a bunch of like editing and, you know, changes made. Like, okay, I'll get right on it. Have it back to you. Tonight. And it's like, okay, but, like, you could have said, like, in five days and it would have been fine. You know what I mean? Like, it's like they were so afraid of, like, disappointing the client or something that then they, like, create these, like. Or they don't want the client to be mad or think badly of them or whatever it is that they, like, create these deadlines that nobody asked for. It's a super common thing. And then they miss it, and they get all stressed out, and then they're like, you know, and then you look bad because you're like, well. And in their head, it's like, well, I should have said that was stupid. Like, why a day? I need three days. It's like, yeah, you do. You are stupid. But, like, for saying in one day. You know what I mean? Like, you know, don't make these artificial deadlines that nobody asked you for. It's wildly common. I see it all the time. And so there's that. And then, like, yeah, actually, that's the biggest one, I guess. And then. Yeah. I love the idea of giving yourself a little more time. I mean, we went to dinner with Emma Rainville, who's hired. I think she said she'd spent, like, $350,000 on copywriters from Copy Accelerator in the last year. And she was like, literally, not a single person from Copy Accelerator has got me the copy on time when they said they were going to. And she's still spending the money because our writers are, like, the best writers. But it's like, you know, she's like, it's crazy, like, how, like, I've spent, like, more than a quarter of a million dollars in copywriters from your group, and not a single copywriter has actually met a deadline. It's like, so just don't be that copywriter. Yeah, you talk about it all the time, Laura. Like, my. My first letter I ever wrote for Brian Zimmerman. Like, I have it in my inbox, or I send it to him, and he's like, wow, damn. And, like, a day early. Like, that's cool. I've got another thing for you. You want to write this, too? Like, he hadn't looked at it yet, but I just got to him early, so he literally just hired me for another letter. Like, you know, this is after the first letter I ever wrote, simply because I got to him, like, a day early, which was, like, so shocking to him because writers are so notoriously bad at it. But it's like, you know, I don't know, man. You Know if you can. You want to stand out and be different than everybody else, then. Then, you know, do the stuff that no one else does. And that's a huge way to get ahead, too.

Yeah.

Yeah. Cool. Well, that was all the questions. So two things I want to do before we end. Ed. Ray, I want to give you one. I want to. Let's talk to Ed for a minute. Lore. Ed, what's going on in your life, man? Give us, like, three exciting things in the life of Ed. Ray, I feel like I love you so much. I value you so much for being on these calls, Ed. And, you know, like, obviously, you know, you're an amazing moderator and helper, but let's. Let's talk about it, Ray, for, like, for five minutes, and then we'll wrap up after that. And Laura and I both love you so much. I think it, you know, it works to do that.

I mean, shit, man, I wasn't expecting to have a interview.

Got you, Man.

What's really been going on in my life lately? Well, for one, honestly, just been a really big focus on self worth and personal growth. Been kind of going through more of a spiritual journey. That's one thing. Yeah, I've been playing League of Legends. I've been enjoying more of life. Like, I've been working so hard the past six years just to build a business or do this or that, but I'm. I'm starting to believe more in creating a life worth living rather than a business worth growing. So I've just been enjoying more life. I go out. I'm in the best shape of my life. I break dance three to five times a week now. I've completely X' ed out any girls in my life right now after a really weird situation with a girl in my building. So I'm off of girls for a little bit. I'm focused on just being me and growing myself to the man I want to be. I know I already am. Just need to step into awesome.

It's amazing. Laura, any thoughts on Ed and his journey?

What else besides the break dancing makes you feel super happy?

Lately it's been. It's been looking at trees. Like, literally, like, I'll go off, like, I'll go out for a walk and I'll see a tree or I'll see, like, some flowers. I'm like.

Damn.

Like, this is life. I love that life, you know, enjoying each moment.

Did you see that Facebook post I wrote about trees when I was in Scottsdale or whatever?

I didn't.

I don't think, dude, you gotta find. It's on my Facebook profile. And it was like, I literally just admired and observed trees for like a half an hour and, like, wrote what I was seeing about it. You'd probably love it. Cause it's all. It's like total, total tree porn.

So, you know, let me look that up right now. I need. I need some more tree porn in my life.

Yeah, go scope out that tree porn. I think you'll appreciate it, Stephan.

Georgi.com Treeporn Got it.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's my only fans. This is just like, pictures of trees.

Honestly, I would subscribe to that.

You're such a trip. Well, that's something that Eden helps me realize too, because, you know, I could be walking so fast, but she just walks slow in the yard and looks at the flowers and looks at the. The leaves. And I remember to take a deep breath and look with her, and there's nothing like re experiencing that stuff. Especially thanks to your beloved child.

Yeah, that's a great point. She does that. We were at the beach and she's like, daddy, like, she like, you're walking so fast. I have to run to keep up with you. She's like, why are you walking so fast? And in my head, I'm not, but I'm like, why am I walking so fast? Like, we're at the ocean. It's like, it's amazing moment. Why am I trying to watch the car? Like, I'm like, sprinting to the car and then. Yeah, having a kid is really, really cool for that.

I'm reading your porn right now, Stefan.

It's solid, right?

It's good.

Thanks, man.

You should write. You should write more of this.

I want to. I want to. I know. That's my own challenge, is like, I'm like, I'm scaling back. I want to write books. I want to do more. And I went to like, that 100 million mastermind. And then I'm like, but also, I need to get the Instagram DM closes going, and I should start a supplement company and I should do this and that. And it's like, wait, literally what I just said I was like, not going to do, but, like, if I do too much, I don't have time to sit and admire trees. Right? And so there's a challenge of not, you know, keeping the balance there so that I can do stuff like that that I enjoy. That's good for my soul.

That's.

Yeah.

That's honestly, something I've been learning a lot more lately is like, actually just Enjoying the life. Because a lot of us put off momentary satisfaction, like to be in. Be in the moment, as we call it, for, you know, delayed gratification, like, you know, building a business or basically you, you, you put yourself second in your business first, which is okay to start, but doing that too long gets you burnt out, upset, depressed and on medications, which we don't want.

So facts. Yeah, that's absolutely true.

Yeah, man.

Cool, dude. Well, I'm glad things are good. I want to do an Ed Ray episode soon as well and yeah, cool. Wrap it up. So thank you so much to my amazing guest, Laura Cattella Georgi for joining us. Laura, it was amazing having you. People want to interact more. They want more Laura in their lives. You know, what do they do, where do they go? What's the best way?

Yeah, I think the best way would be to make sure we're friends on Facebook. My name on there is Laura Katella. Georgi, you can just add me. I love like chatting with people and helping them. I've had some amazing calls with Girlene. Those fill me up so much. So if anybody would like to do something like that, especially if you were here and spent an hour and 11 minutes. 11, 11. Everyone you can. If you're on the, on the west coast, I'd be happy to do that with, with anybody who is here. So feel free to add me on there.

Awesome. And give Laura some love on Instagram. You get your bit clout set up too.

Yes. You can invest in me. I think I'm going to start sharing more pictures of trees on there.

Yeah, I think trees are really just like the next wave. Like that's like the trees are just really hot right now. But anyway, so thank you so much, Laura. Thank you for being my guest and I love you. And Ray, thank you so much for being our amazing co host. As always, for everyone else, that wraps it up. You know, make sure that if you're watching the replay on YouTube, you leave a comment, hit the like button, let us know what you got from this episode, any questions we should have asked and didn't ask and if, you know, we can always do a part two someday. You know, if you listen on itunes, make sure to leave a review, make sure you're subscribed, all that good stuff and we'll go from there. Thank you everybody and have a wonderful rest of your week.

Thank you.

Thank you.