[RTB:E9] “Give More Than You Take” - The Road to a Billion with Stefan Georgi

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host, Stefan Georgi, and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show style podcast where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset, scaling, relationships, money, really, almost anything else. The reason for the name is a double entendre. It's about scaling to a billion dollars in sales, which is a number that I should hit this year as far as generating sales for myself and my clients, about trying to make a impact on the lives of a billion people over the next 10 years and a real tangible impact where we have helped somebody to improve their financial, emotional, or mental well being. Those are sort of the three categories that I've identified as places where I can have the biggest impact. So we'll start taking calls in about five minutes from now. And like I said, the way that works is you just put your questions into the Q and A section in Zoom. For those who are on Zoom, if you're on Facebook Live, hello. Love you guys as well. Ed is going to kind of monitor Facebook Live a bit. And then for the questions that are submitted, Ed will review those, feed them to me, and you'll be able to be unmuted and be able to ask your question and go live. Ed, Ray, you want to go ahead and say hello to everybody and introduce yourself?

Hey, what's up? My name is Ed Ray, and there's a garbage truck outside.

Hey, that's great.

There's an intro for today. In all seriousness, I help make people's funnels Facebook friendly so they can get some of those beautiful, beautiful sockbox.

Awesome. And Sean, thanks for. I think you're referring to my shirt. Although Ed's got a nice shirt on too. Fun fact, when we first started talking today, Ed was shirtless. And I told him he should just stay shirtless for the whole episode, but.

They couldn't handle that.

Yeah, then he flexed and said that y' all couldn't handle the gun show.

Oh, yeah, that was so funny. Before I even turned the camera on, Stefan's like, yo, Ed, how are you? I'm like, I'm shirtless, bro. How are you?

Literally how he answered it and then turned his camera on. And I just got shirtless and Ray for the first, like 10 minutes of this recording. So fortunately, yeah, I do have it recorded. So if I ever need to, like, embarrass that, I've got, you know, dude.

Put it on the hub. Make sure you Put in my mailing address for the checks, right?

Yeah, Perfect. So we'll get started answering questions in just a second here. Again, use the Q and A. If you're using chat and zoom, make sure you do all like, you know, panelists and attendees. Otherwise people won't see your stuff in chat. As always, I do have like an opening monologue for a couple minutes at the start of this, you know, of our recordings here. Oh, and by the way, too, found out today because we started putting these recordings onto itunes as a podcast. So some of you listening will be listening to this on itunes if you're listening. Love you. Thank you for listening. And I found out Today we're number eight in the US on iTunes in the marketing category. So that's pretty awesome. Really stoked about that. Means more people kind of hearing this content and reaching more people. And I think it's really cool, too, for everyone who's on the call or, you know, who participates because, like, you know, people who listen to this just from all over the world will hear your name and so nice to hear your questions and you talk about a kind of interesting way to get some exposure. You know, who knows where that could lead? So I think there's a lot of really cool stuff happening there. Really excited, especially we've only been live for like, whatever, three days, like 72 hours. So pretty pumped. Thank you for, you know, to everyone who comes to these sessions and ask questions and interacts and everyone who left a review already or who shared on social media just really means a ton to me. So thank you guys so much and you girls so much. My opening kind of monologue today is really just a general thought I'm having about giving more than you take, which is super obvious, or it should be, but it's not. What I kind of thought about with this is I put out an email yesterday so I'll leave some office space here in San Diego. I bought a house in San Diego recently and, like, I'm going to get some office space by the Del Mar Racetrack. And my whole vision with that is having a really open floor plan for a bunch of, like, tables and whiteboards and TVs. And there's two enclosed offices in the conference room. And the conference room I'm going to use to probably create content and make it like a little studio. But my thought process was like, I want to do. The reason I'm going to pull the trigger on this lease and get it is because I want to actually have an open office where at least once a Month. Anyone who's in town, whether you live in San Diego or you just happen to be visiting, you can just come into the office and chill and we can collaborate, we'll work. Everyone can kind of work together. Luca, if you move to San Diego, you can come during the open office days at least. But like, I just think it's a really cool way to have people come in. So sure, we'll have regulars and have people who are just in town or who live nearby, who want to make a trip, whatever it is. I'm really stoked about that. And then once a month, I want to do like mini masterminds at the office too, where, same idea, people can come in. We'll mastermind, we'll have people present and just sort of make it this hub and this place where we can build out a community. So that's the main reason I'm doing this office and making that investment. And then another thing I'm doing is, and I emailed my list about this this morning is like, in October or November, we're doing, for my Mastermind Copy Accelerator, we're doing our mastermind virtually in September, September 9th through 11th. And it's going to be amazing. We have awesome speakers, we have all these cool surprises lined up. It's going to be great. But I miss that offline kind of like in person connection. So assuming things don't completely go to shit with COVID I'm gonna do my roadshow, yes. Chris Dixon just called it, where I'm basically gonna charter a jet and then just travel across the US and like go to different kind of regions and areas and host like single day masterminds of members of Copy Accelerator, whether it's, you know, our full members or those who are in light. And then on top of that, I'm gonna have probably another day that's open to like, just like the general public. And I'm thinking we'll even do like dinner. It's like one night that we're there and basically it'll be like the dinner will be quote, unquote free, but I'll ask people to donate, maybe it's like a hundred dollars to attend. But basically. So we have a hundred people. Everyone donates $100. That's $10,000, right, that we just raised. And we'll give that to different charities that are like, doing good work in those regions. And so the idea of all this stuff being like, that's like me giving, right? And does it because, like, you look at it like this office is going to Cost me, I don't know, like, $360,000 over the next three years. And then, like, the roadshow will probably cost me $150,000. And again, I'm in a place where I'm blessed enough to be able to do that and, like, make those investments, but I'm not doing it with an immediate roi. There's no plan of, like. But then I'm also gonna sell people at these things, right? Like, there's no selling people. It's just like building the community, giving, being involved with people, creating connections and all that kind of stuff. And that's what I kind of mean when I say giving more than you take. Yeah, it's probably tax deductible, Chris. There is that part. But, you know, which helps. But, you know, hey, you still have to pay the money up front. But again, man, it's about giving more than you take. And I thought about. Cause I got an email for some virtual event today, and it was like, you know, sponsorships are now open. Like, and essentially the email was, you know, hey, like, sponsor. Like, you can make money. Give us your money. I think so many people doing so many things are just so transparently just trying to make money constantly, and they're trying to make money off people and others, and they're just so naked about it. And again, I love making money. I've talked about this. There's no secret. But I think you end up making way more money when you're a giver instead of a taker. And so I just think that something I'm going to continue to live my life by is really trying to give more than I take. And so I wanted to share that with everybody because maybe as you move forward with your day or your week or your month or your year or your life or whatever it is, you know, being a giver really, I think, is ultimately the best thing you can do. And Chris said, you should film your journey. You better believe I am, actually. So I've got Jude Charles here with me filming right now. He's like, literally filming me as I talk. But Jude, you wanna come around? Just wave to everybody on camera real quick. Come here, Jude. Sorry. I know Jude's like, I just totally broke the fourth wall or whatever, but Jude's here filming this. But same thing. Like, yeah, I'm gonna have Jude. Jude on that plane with us and traveling around, and then people are saying hi to you, Jude. And yeah, so he'll film the whole thing. We'll film content every session we do at the office. We'll film it. So I'll create a ton of content, and I'm sure that, you know, ultimately I will get an ROI off everything I'm doing. But again, it's just not. That's not the purpose isn't for, like, the ROI or the money. Like, it's like doing stuff because it just feels good and it's right and I'm able to do it not because I'm trying to make, like, a bunch of money tomorrow from it, you know? Yeah. Kimmy do said, hi, Jude. Bobby said, hi, Ed Ray said, Jude saw me shirtless. Rachel Spiel said, hey, what's up, Jacob, by the way? So Eric Chan saying, hi. Jack Einle saying, hi again. Jude's getting a lot of love now. Jude's awesome, as you guys know. So, yeah, sharing that. Anyway, and with that being said, Shura saying, hi, the Jude lovers is pouring in now. I want to go ahead and jump in and answer some questions, and so, yeah, let's chat. So, Ed Ray, you want to go ahead and let us know who's up first?

Yeah, for sure. By the way, I love that you always say my last name. You just go, ed Ray.

I'm like, it's always Ed Ray. I can't just do Ed Ray.

All right, we got a good question here. I haven't actually haven't seen a question like this since being on the show Peter Cosmos. Oh, I need co host, though.

Oh, you're not co host yet. Oh, snap. Okay.

Oh, Stefan.

Oh, my gosh.

Naughty boy make co host. Thank you. There we go. All right, Peter Cemis asks if I can find his question, tips on how to be happy and tips on fighting off negativity demons. It's a good freaking question.

That is a good question. What's up, Peter? How are you?

Good. How are you, man?

Doing good, man. Good. Yeah. You give me a little context on that question.

Yeah, I mean, like, to preface everything, like, I have very strong mental health and, you know, my life is awesome right now. More money, better shape. But lately I've been noticing, like, a somewhat depressive trend in my mindset, and I'm very hypersensitive to that stuff. So I'm kind of just wondering, like, if stuff's going out, like, great, like, how can we continue to, like, move that forward, especially with happiness? Because, like, what's one of having everything if you're not happy?

Yeah, 100%. That's a great question, man. Yeah, I think that, you know, a couple of thoughts like, like, Jaz mentioned the big Leap. And we talk about the big leap on like, every single one of these shows. Have you read that book yet, Peter?

I'm about halfway through, actually, right now.

Cool. Yeah, I think. I mean, I think that helps because I do think sometimes it's like that upper limit problem and that kind of thing of like, when you get to this place where things are good, there's kind of your inner, like, saboteurs and demons that are trying to bring you back down, drag you back down. And so then like, kind of like, because of that, like, it manifests in unhappiness. And then the unhappiness leads to you making poor decisions to sort of cut yourself back down. So I do think that that's part of it. You know, for me personally, one of the biggest things that I don't have, like a perfect answer to this. Obviously if I did, I'd be like a monk. But I also just try to kind of own it. Like, I examine. I examine my feelings and then I own my feelings and then I kind of just let it go from there. So, like, I. If I am feeling kind depressive or unhappy, I sort of think about, like, you know, I try to look why that might be right. Is it that I'm really unhappy? Is it that I feel like I'm missing something? Is it possibly that I have an inner voice that is, you know, or some mindset stuff or mental and emotional baggage that's kind of manifesting itself and trying to, you know, pull me back down or whatever it is. And then if I still feel kind of unhappy, then I'm personally like, all right, well, then I can just be unhappy for a bit if I want to be. I talk about giving myself permission to be unhappy. And then when I do that, like, and I'm like, alright, well, I can totally do that. And if I want to not work for the next three days, if I want to send a depressive funk, like, that's totally cool. And I like, literally commit to that. I'm like, I'm committed to being unhappy. Which sounds crazy because generally what I found is when I do that, then I end up being like, well, I don't actually really want to do it. And then I kind of go on with my day and sort of. But I sort of feel like part of it is like a taboo that we have. It's like a. A taboo game we play of ourselves where we feel it creeping in and we tell ourselves we try to ignore it, try to like, avoid it. And then it's almost like a Fetish where like, then we kind of like want it, but it's like a sick thing, like for us maybe subconscious. But if you're like, if you unfetish size it and you're like, yeah, I can just be unhappy if I want to generally, then like a lot of the appeal of that disappears and goes away. So that's what I found to work best. I know Ed Ray put in the chat that he has an answer on this one, so. And I'd love to hear your take as well.

Yeah, so one thing, I don't know if you guys know about me, but like 95% of my decisions are in life are completely emotionally based. That's just the hard fact. So I totally understand this and I've dealt with this a ton with like mood swings, depression, anxiety, everything. You can name it, I got it. Probably one thing I gotta ask you and like for you guys listening, this is really crucial. How consistent is your sleep schedule? Oh, it's pretty good. I mean I grew up like a hardcore fitness guy, so I try to get like eight to nine hours every day pretty much.

Here's jacked AF for those who are.

What's your, what's your wake up time every, like every day? What's your average? Like around 9:20 to 9:30. Okay, so it's not like, you know, for like, it's not like 4am to 7am like there's no big range. No, for the most part it's maybe like 8 to 9. Depends. My puppy's crying, but usually it's okay. So even that can have an effect. Do your best to keep it within a half hour time frame of waking up every morning. A lot of people like to focus on what time you go to sleep, but more importantly is what time you wake up consistently. Because your body will naturally tire itself out and reset its circadian rhythm and get you back on the right track. It could literally just be hormones messing up. The next question I have for you is how much you work in a week? I mean, I don't really track it, but I mean I try to work probably six days a week right now or because like it's Covid time and I'd like to work now and then take time off later. How many hours a week do you work though? I have no clue. 50? Ballpark. 50? 60? Yeah, at least. Do you feel tired at the end of the day, like mentally drained?

I think it depends on the day.

That depends how much writing I get done.

But.

Half the days, yes. Half a day? No. Okay. Because that's the other thing I'm kind of testing for is are you burning out? That's my next question. Or starting to. Because that's something that happened to me a few times when I started to get in a depressive funk. Was literally just me not having a consistent sleep schedule. Not what's it called? Not, oh my gosh, I'm having a blank brain fog. But basically it's important to have just healthy habits like eating good food. You're healthy nuts. You probably are. But most people listening either. Not a consistent wake up schedule. They're burning out, they're working too much, not taking enough time off as well. Not eating nourishing good food, like actually good food. Like micronutrients of like fruit, veggies, whatever. Also vitamin D as well. How much sun are you getting probably? Yeah, I usually do like one one to two hour shirtless walks a day in the sun, so usually pretty good. And like I'll hit like 10,000. I use once a week just as a mega dose to be safe. Okay.

You and Ed Ray can do your shirtless walks together. If you guys do it.

Okay. So we've ruled out a lot of the biological stuff.

Yeah.

Are you.

Do you feel like you.

And I'm sorry if this is like going a little too far in depth, Stefan. Like, let me know when to stop.

Well, I'm curious about, I mean, Peter, I would just be curious, like, do you have an inkling as to, you know, where the depressive feelings might be coming from?

I think it could be burnout. I do have like seven projects going on at once right now. I'm not just like copy like my own book launch and then the course and some other stuff. So I think it's, it's burnout.

Yeah, that's kind of the instinct that I got because like if you just talking about six days a week, and I know it's tough because you're like to your point, Covid's going on, can't like, you know, what else can I do? Might as well maximize this time. But at the same time, if you're working six days a week and you're sort of feeling like you're never getting a break or you're not taking that downtime to like recharge and that you time it is easy to start feeling burned out. And then with seven projects it's like feeling scattered. Like you're not accomplishing as much in a day as you think you should be. But it's not because you're not Working, it's because you kind of working on a bunch of different stuff, so you're only kind of making little, like, tiny dents, you know, instead of making a huge cavern. I think, like, to me that. That, I mean, one thing I would just do is of your seven projects, right? A. I would try and really hone in on, like, two to three at most, you know, that you think are really biggest needle movers. Just focus on those. Uh, then I would really focus on trying to take, like, the weekends off entirely. You know, um, one thing I found, and I give Monique Linder, who's a coach who I worked with maybe two years ago, and she kind of is the one who forced me to do this. But I started to, like, cut back my hours at work pretty significantly, but I focused on the big needle mover. So I found that I actually was, like, working half the amount of time I worked before, but I was getting more done. And then, not only that, but since I was down at like, 2:30 or 3, I'd go play golf and I'd be in the sun for, like, four hours playing golf, or I'd go for a walk, or I go. And then like, doing those sorts of things made me feel a lot, like, happier. And then just like, sort of. Then when I did work, I was more excited to work. I always talk about, you know, Ernest Hemingway, like, is famous for that. He would stop writing in the middle of a sentence every day. Every morning he would write for, like, a couple hours in the morning, but he would always stop in the middle of a sentence. And the reason he did that was so that when he'd be pissed off, he'd want to keep going, but he couldn't. And, like, then, like, when he woke up the next day, he was, like, really excited to go back to writing because he wanted to at least finish that sentence. Plus, he always had, like, a prompt. He always knew what he was going to write, and it was easy to do that. But I kind of look at it the same way of even working and taking a break. You're like, but if I go for another two hours and work till seven or eight, then I can, you know, finish, like, this thing. But it's like, yeah, but is that better, or would you be better served to, like, you know, go do family time or more personal time, or go out in the sun and then, you know, wake up the next morning and be like, oh, cool, I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, and you finish it then. So I think that stuff, if you do that, like, may have a big impact on your mental kind of health and well being. So that's what I would personally recommend.

Yeah, for sure. And there's something I said to Jazz Courtenay the other day. We had a quick call with him. Basically the way that I compartmentalize it in my head in terms of juggling clients and stuff. And this is useful for anybody. Even if you're not doing client work, just project based, just apply it to whatever you're doing. I only ever want to have a maximum of three big projects going on at once. So I'd have one project for myself, one project for my retainer client, and then one like gap for one time projects. So that way there's a good balance. So there's always money coming in, like as Ian Stanley calls it, maintenance money. There's money now, which is within the one day to 30 days, and there's money later, which is my own personal stuff, like my book, my Facebook compliance course, my email list. That way you can really 80, 20, like, you know what to cut out if it doesn't fit in one of those three compartments. Obviously it's gonna be different for everybody. But if you can, like Stefan said, pick two or three projects that are gonna bring you the biggest returns and be the most fulfilling, do those. Okay, cool. Thanks guys. I didn't mean to make it so deep on the first question.

I love it. That's what I love about this. I love going deeper. So thanks for, thanks for asking it, Peter.

Yeah, thanks.

Cool. Awesome. Yeah, Ed, I want to make one other note on that too, which is that, you know, I had like Brooks out here with me, Brooks Briz, who's part of the Copy Accelerator team as well, and super awesome guy. He's done a bunch of amazing stuff. He actually has. If you ever kind of look at his bio, it's amazing. Like he helped to like start like the blooming brands that was like Outback Steakhouse and, and all these restaurants. He worked directly with the owners to help grow that. He did stuff with like John Maxwell, who's one of the foremost experts in leadership. He's just done all these incredible things, but he was helping me with like brainstorming on the publishing company. So we spent most of the day Tuesday on that. I rented a conference room at a local Regis and we whiteboarded, we mapped stuff out and I took a break for the Copy Accelerator call and then a couple calls after that. But I spent a huge chunk of time doing that. And when I was doing that, I was not checking Facebook messages or my email or Skype or anything else. I was, like, in that room, just focused on that one thing, which is a really big needle mover. And I realized when I got home that day, my level of happiness was so much higher. I felt so happy. I was in such a good mood. And the next morning he came. We spent the first couple hours and I was still in that good mood. And then he left. And then I went to playing whack a mole of all this stuff here. I had to do copy accelerator feedback. I had emails to respond to. I had a call about the supplement company I'm involved with. I had to call my PR team. I had to, like, do some, like, admin stuff and sign some contracts, and suddenly I'm jumping around to all these different things, and my mood just went like this. It went straight downhill because instead of really focusing on this one thing that was the most exciting thing for me and this big needle mover, I was trying to do all these different things and cram it all in. And so it just reminded me of the power of focus and, like, finding more time in our days where we can just focus on one big thing at a time. Like, the copy accelerator stuff is a huge needle mover for me in my life and a really important thing too. So it's not that I don't enjoy doing that. It was just, like, switching to that and then another thing and another thing and another thing. So I've always found my most productive and happiest times are when I'm really focused on, like, one or two things. And when I'm trying to focus on more than that at a single given time, I get cranky and irritable. So I just wanted to share that. Yeah. Marcus said Brooks is like a real life most interesting man in the world. He totally is. And Chris Dixon. Yeah, that book, the One thing, is great. And also, Manuel Zapata said, sorry for being late. Nice to be here. Glad to have you here, Manuel. So with that being said, Ed, let's do another question.

Let's do it from our good friend Kimmy Doo. How to edit your sales letter and improve flow, especially headlines and sub headlines.

Sweet. What's up, Kimmy? Kimmy, I can't hear you. Okay.

There we go.

Hi.

Hi, Stefan.

What's up?

What's up? How are you?

I'm well. How are you doing?

I'm doing awesome, thank you.

Good.

I'm wondering, like, how to edit your sales letter and especially, like, improving the flow, especially, like, between the Copy and the sub headlines.

So. Okay, cool. So as far as between the copy and. So you're saying as in like where if the, the copy that then leads to a subhead and the subhead then goes back to the copy and that kind of like transition that happens between those things.

Yeah, exactly, the transition.

Yeah. So I like. If I'm doing especially like a text sales letter, text copy, I generally want to, I want to all flow. I mean I wanted to sort of. I want to write it so that somebody keeps reading continuously. So whatever the line is before the subheader, the subheader is just like a logical continuation of like that line and then the line after. It's a logical continuation. But I want to play with the phrasing a little bit so that it makes sense to something that someone can read as a single sort of sentence. And then the bigger trick, I think I've talked about this a little bit in the RNBC applied that I do. And like on the first call there is. I want the subheaders to tell the entire. Basically be a mini version of the sales letter and tell the entire story. So for example, if you're. Yeah, like Marcus just said, dual readership path of subheads. Basically. Yeah. So you go from the headline to each subhead all the way through and you could just do that. You could just read the headline and the subheads and still get like the, the lead, the story, the mechanism, the build up, what the product is and everything else. So it's almost like a. Someone who's skimming could just read the subheads and still understand everything, the core of everything I just shared with them and still be motivated to buy. So that's really how I'm looking at those subheads. And does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. So like if someone was skimming and then they just read the sub headlines like I do sometimes.

Yeah.

So like they'll get the basic idea and still be motivated to buy.

Exactly. And I do the same thing. If somebody shows me a sales letter and I'm busy and you know, it's just kind of like a random letter or if I just find one online and I want to kind of know what it's about, that's what I do too. I skim and just read the subheaders and. But if they're sort of weird, fragmented, like don't connect things like that, then I'm kind of like, now I don't know what I'm reading. But if they all just flow together as like a unified sort of journey that we've created. Then I, you know, then I typically know what's going on and I'm still interested in the product and everything like that.

Gotcha. That's super helpful. Thank you so much, Stefan.

Awesome. Yeah, happy to help. Thanks for being on the call as always, Kimmy. We appreciate it. Thanks. Yeah. Sweet. Ed Ray. Kimmy was really happy Ed that you. That you're here too. She said hi to me, but she. I could tell she really meant to say Stefan and Ed Ray.

Whatever.

Emo Ed. He's gonna get his guitar back out and start playing some taking back.

How could this happen to me? I made a lot of mistakes. Alright, so we got Rob Tidwell for a brand new copycub. What kind of daily exercises would you recommend?

Hey, what's up, Rob?

Rob. Hey.

Hey.

Hey.

I know this is like the most basic, simple question, but not really. I have a friend I'm trying to help out and wants to.

She's really stoked about writing copy and.

I'm like, all right, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna give back.

Then I'm like, shit, what should I ever do? Yeah, buy rnbc.

Yeah. Well, I mean, not only that, but you're in Copy Accelerator. So I have, I shared a long time ago that kind of a module for how to train a new copywriter from scratch. So use that as your shortcut. But for people who are listening to this who aren't in Copy Accelerator and they're like, that's not very helpful, Stefan. Which would be lots of people, you know. Yeah, you could buy the RNBC method, which is my copywriting course plug from that because I mentioned it in chat and on live. But really the thing I would do as far as exercises go is if they don't know really anything about copy, I want to kind of familiarize them with that road. So I would show them a bunch of examples of sales copy, whether that's like sales letters, Facebook ads, you know, advertorials, email copy, etc. So I'd just be giving them access to a ton of, you know, kind of copy resources so they can kind of familiarize themselves with it. I recommend there's a book called like the Ultimate Desktop Copy Coach by Clayton Makepeace and Tony Flores. However, apparently it's harder to find online now, I think maybe because of Clay Makepeace's passing. I'm not sure exactly. I do have like a. My own version of it PDF, but I can't just go around sharing it with people like you know, willy nilly out of respect to them. But I used to make like my copycubes read that because it does like kind of give you a good cursory overview of copywriting. And then, I mean, it's advanced too. It just kind of also starts at the beginning. It's like a thousand pages long. But, you know, at least having them studying copy. And then I'd have them, you know, say if we're looking at long form sales copy sales letters, I'd have them look at all of the, like, the structure, right? Like go through these and kind of look at the commonalities, right? Like, so basically what do you see as you read like markup, like what the same structure is, you know, the different transitions you're seeing, basically the different parts of it that you're seeing. Do you notice the same things happening again and again? Almost like make them kind of like do their own outline of what a sales letter looks like based on all the copy that they've seen. You know, I would talk about, I would teach them rnbc since you know, that research mechanism, brief and copy. And then I would have them, as they're going through that, like, I would actually, the research one, you could give them like a research assignment, tell them like, hey, you know, basically do research for a hypothetical product or an existing product or whatever it is. Same thing with like the mechanism. I teach them about unique mechanisms of the problem, the solution. And then I'd give them some like hypothetical products. Or you could give them existing products and give them an exercise where they go in and find new mechanisms for those products. Same thing for the brief. I'd show them a brief example and I'd be like, here's what the brief looks like, here's the different questions that are asked. Then I'd have them go to a sales letter or a sales copy and I'd have them basically pull out the different things in that sales letter and put them into the brief. So I'd have them do the brief in like reverse because then they can get practice kind of figuring out what goes what where in the brief. And then for the actual sales copy and the copy outline, I'd have them, same thing, go through sales letters marking up like, okay, here's the lead, here's the background story, here's the unique mechanism of the problem, here's the unique mechanism of the solution, kind of go through bit by bit and kind of understand it. Then I would give them a hypothetical product or assignment and have them go through and write out a Sales letter for it. You could pick an existing product off Amazon or hypothetical product or whatever it is, but I'd have them go through, write a sales letter, but I'd have them do it bit by bit. So I'd say start with the lead, right? I want you to, like, you've looked at a bunch of leads. Now you know what it's supposed to be in the lead. I want you to, like, write a lead for this product and have them write the lead and then, like, look at it with them. Go back, what's good, what's not good, how could it be improved? Teach off of that, then move on to the next part. Now, like, do the background story. Same thing. Like, right. Have them write that out. Have them modeling off of, like, sales copy that already works. Review it with them, and then for the unique mechanism of the problem, unique mechanism for the solution and so forth. So they go bit by bit by bit and have it be very modular until they've then suddenly written a sales letter from scratch. And then from there, probably have them keep practicing and doing that, continuing to study copy, continuing to write. But that's sort of the crux of what I would do for training somebody who's we want to write copy from, who doesn't really know anything about it.

Yeah, that was a super good answer, Steph.

Dude, you always, like. Yeah, so, like, I know him, you know, kind of what to do, but.

Not like, you just laid it out. So. Hey, I really appreciate it, man. Thanks a lot, dude.

Yeah, my pleasure. And it's really nice that you're helping. You know, you're helping this woman out and everything, so good on you, man. I'm trying to do what my mentor does and give back, so I figure.

Pay off for everybody, right?

It will. Awesome. Rob. Well, thanks for. Thanks for that question. Cool. Yeah. And, I mean, it's a good answer because I've done it a bunch. I've trained a lot of copywriters from scratch, and I enjoy it. You know, I thought about it honestly with the publishing company, and we're gonna hire writers and stuff, and because we have a lot of sales copy, and there's actually a lot of job opportunities for people with that publishing company. So just an open loop for y', all, but there's gonna be some cool stuff. But, you know, I was thinking about, like, even hiring some people from scratch and train them up and then just filming it all. And I think that would just be really cool content that we could put into RNBC as, like, a bonus or put it online or something. So, yeah, pretty stoked. All right, Ed, who do we got next?

Next up, we have the man, the myth, the legend, Jazz Courtenay.

Jazz Courtenay.

Yes. What are some of the most common mistakes you see coming up again and again? And even good copywriters copy.

I got plenty of answers to that. What's up, Jazz? Me too.

Yo, Stefan. Yeah, so pretty self explanatory.

Like, what are the patterns you notice just even in good copywriters. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go off and then, Ed, you can, you can go after. We can, we can tag team it. But headlines are like lazy or half assed. Like, it's pretty regular. Like they sort of go. They're weak headlines. Like, they're not really specific. They may have written a great sales letter, but they sort of phone it in on the headline, which is a huge issue or mistake. Same thing with the lead. A lot of throat clearing in the lead. A lot of, kind of several lines of copy that are not particularly like, compelling, curiosity, driving, exciting. They put in. So, for example, say you're the doctor who's sharing a weight loss breakthrough. And it's like, you know, hey, I'm doctor and I've worked with a lot of people. Some people were, you know, young and some were old. And even though I met worked with a lot of people, I was really surprised by what I discovered. It's something that is really surprising and different. And you'll probably be surprised when you hear about. You're like, what the. I just get right to this. Like, I never expected to discover the key to losing weight. Buried in like a desert sand treasure box in the sand of Morocco. And yet after spending three weeks with like barely any water almost dying, that's exactly what happened. Or what I mean, whatever it is, I'm just making up a random story. But the point is, like, just get right to it to the story or right into the emotional stuff. Starting in the action too. When you tell a story, like, start in the middle, start like with the action. Like, get to get into the action right away. It's even good sales copywriters and copywriters kind of like again, kind of building up to this. But it's like, start writing the action and then move back. We see that in Hollywood movies all the time. You see that the movie opens or the TV show starts and like there's like the, you know, the hero being shot or like they're in a gunfight, like, and then suddenly it rewinds back to the beginning. Right. And that's what we should be doing in our sales letters. There's, like, two movies on Netflix that one of Chris Hemsworth starts with him in the middle of, like, going from car to car, that super violent one, but it was kind of cool. And then that new. There's some new Netflix one with the people who are kind of immortal and can't die. And it literally starts with them all being shot and killed and like that. You know, Deadpool, I think, did that, the first Deadpool. So same thing in our copywriting still, sometimes if they're not in rnbc, not having a good mechanism is still an issue, really having that dialed in. And then the last thing I'd say, and especially on info products, is that maybe all the other copy is super good and they don't make any of these mistakes. But then they get to the product reveal, and they don't really sell the product. They sort of start meandering around. They sort of mention the product and then try and go right into, like, telling you you should buy it, but they don't actually tell you what the product is. It's not like, what do you get? Like, I want. If I'm selling an info product, meaning like a digital product, an ebook, a guide, a course, like, it needs to be where I can envision myself, like, even if I'm not gonna actually hold it in my hand, I can envision myself holding my hand like it's a package. I can take it, feel it, hold it, and I know exactly what these modules are, what I'm gonna get. What is the outcome gonna be? Like, how many modules are there? So many times people just, like, get to the product and they just get really lazy and they're like, yeah. And then there's the product, and it'll show you how to do this stuff. So anyway, like, you should buy it. And it's like, what are you doing? You gotta, like, sell me on that product and make me be like, oh, my gosh, I need to have this product. I need to own it. I think it's super, super vital. But everyone's mad that Girly's not here. She's probably on Justice. You know, I forgive it. Girlen's a pretty good, pretty loyal attendee of our road to a billion. And, you know, Justin doesn't do a lot of live zoom, so I understand. And she's still part of the cult, you guys. Don't worry. Don't worry. But, Ed, I know. Did you have anything you want to add to that?

Yeah, there's actually quite a few things. You covered most of the bases. One thing for sure is assuming the prospect knows more than they actually do.

Yeah, that's a great one.

On like the curse of knowledge, which is like imagine you're. You're talking to somebody. See, I'm using the curse of knowledge principle to explain the curse of knowledge principle because I don't assume you know what it means. So. But basically it's like imagine trying to explain copyright into one of your family or friends. They just don't know what it is. You have to like explain it in very simple layman terms. That's something a lot of copywriters forget to do. They just assume that a reader will know what this, the industry jargon is. Other thing is, on the other side of that is talking condescendingly or talking down to their audience like they're stupid or something. They do not want to feel stupid. Also focusing too much on the me, not so much on the you compliant copy is a little different. Another huge one is not doing enough of the right research. So you got good copy, but you're just a little bit off in your marketing because your research is off. That's a huge one as well. Another one is not reading their copy out loud like before they submit it. So there's like flow issues, there's transition problems and they transition too abruptly from one idea to another. And that's one thing I've struggled with for sure. Stuff is just writing these all down, dude.

No, I've got more to add. You got my wheels turning. I got at least two more I want to add in.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, definitely. Another one is not speaking to the prospect the way they want to be spoken to. Like, for example, if someone's like, you know, has serious health issues, you're not gonna be like, oh, you're gonna die tomorrow. Like, they don't wanna hear that shit. I mean, this is how I do marketing. Maybe, like, I'm a more ethical marketer, but maybe I'm stupid, I don't know. But I'd rather be like, you know what, this might be a problem right now, but there is hope, right? Just talking to more because there's so much fear mongering out there. Like, just don't be a dick. Like, people's lives are shitty enough as it is. Don't make it worse. I know we have to push the pain to sell a product at some point, but like to help them, but within ethical reasons. But that's my approach.

There's also Ed, like I kind of talk about. It's almost like, this is not a PC way to put it, but it's whatever. But it's almost like the abusive, like, partner type thing where it's like, if you're gonna beat them up, right? Then you come back after and you're like, oh, I'm sorry, like, but it's okay, baby. Like, don't worry, right? And like, one thing that happens, like, if with copy and writing, like a lead or whatever, and if you're gonna kind of use fear or go negative and talk about pain and suffering, what I've seen even, like, really, really, really, like, I don't want to mention this person by name, but one of the absolute best copywriters in the world, and they had a thing that bombed. And one of the reasons why is because they just kept making the prospect feel like shit for, like, first, for like a weight loss keto product. So they kept making the prospect feel like shit, but they didn't ever then stop to be like, but hey, like, it's okay. And in fact, I'm going to show you, you know, how things are going to be better in the future. And I mean, eventually they did when they got to the product, but for the first, you know, 10 minutes, 15 minutes was just laying it on. And for your. As your prospect is viewing your sales letter, your BSL video sales letter, or they're reading it, and if they're just constantly after a few minutes, like, why am I watching this? Why am I reading this? I don't want somebody just like, you know, a. If it's not about the prospect at all, then, like, I'm just hearing somebody complain and bitch for like five or ten minutes. Like, I don't need that in my day. And if it's making me feel like crap, like, why am I sitting here having someone just making me feel like crap? So it doesn't mean you can't kind of hit and kind of squeeze or poke pain points. But at the same time, you then want to kind of bring them back and be like, you know, but don't worry, like, totally fine. It's not probably not even your fault. Like, I'm gonna show you how things are gonna be better. And so I think that's a really good point you made, Ed.

Yeah, I got a few more.

Can I got two more. We do two more, then you go back to yours.

Okay, okay, go, go.

We'll alternate.

It's like, yeah, we're tag teaming Jazz.

Yeah. I mean, not being repetitive enough, like, you actually should be repetitive, especially with your mechanism or technical stuff. If you're doing something that's scientific or about the brain or psychology and you explain sort of something unique one time, that's great. But then you need to remind them. So you look at my copy a lot. Once my spokesperson discovers the real mechanism of the problem or solution, I'll then keep repeating it and I'll be like, and, and remember the real reason for the problem is xyz. And a little bit later, so this does this, which is perfect because as we've talked about, the problem is xyz. I'll keep repeating it. You can't just mention like the real reason they're having a problem or even your solution one time and be like they got this and keep going. Because like they don't. Especially with long copy that's you know, 6,000, 7,000, 8,000 words. Or it's in a video sales letter and somebody's watching this video and then the dog comes in barking or, or they are, you know, they get a phone call and their kid comes in screaming or wakes up from nap and they go away from the computer for five minutes, come back because they are really interested but they missed your mechanism stuff and now they're like, well wait, I don't really know what's going on. So you like, right? You have to actually be repetitive. And even good writers aren't. They assume they say oh yeah, I've told them that once they're really wrapped to every word I'm saying and that's not true. And then related to that is a really common one is just using big words, big sentences and having poor readability. You see that a lot or even really good writers will have these paragraph long sentences. But in reality the average American adult reads at a seventh grade reading level. So when you're using a bunch of big words or you're writing really long sentences, there's like data about how after 10 or 12 words in a sentence, people's reading comprehension gets cut in half. And after like 20 words, in a sense it goes to like less than 10% of Americans and adults can understand a sentence. So like that's why I use so many ellipses, which people ask me about, like why do you use so many ellipses? Why do you break up stuff? It really annoys some of the old school, like direct mail people. I think they really hate that I do it, but I do it because I'm trying to cut it up. So every line is just like no more than 10 words. Or so that way I'm not losing people and they're not completely confused. So those are a few more for me. Ed Ray, tagging it back to you, brother.

I got four. So I'm just typing out. So not getting their copy reviewed by other copywriters that are better than them. That's a huge one. On the same note, not asking for data from clients on a copy. You have no idea how many people come to me. They're like, ed, can you look at my copy? I'm like, this looks good. They're like, well, how can I make it better? I'm like, well, how well did it perform? Like, I don't know. Ask your client, dude. Find out how your things doing. The number one thing is finding out how your copy actually does when you submit it to a client. Next one is when you're talking to your audience sounding too similar to your competitors or like the industry you want to. Not just like your overall messaging, but even your voice, how. How you come across should sound different. Or they don't do that. Another one is talking to a sophisticated audience in an unsophisticated way. I'm not saying using, like, crass words and stuff, but, like, if somebody's already heard about, I don't know, the amazing healing effects of keto, and they've already been through all that stuff and they. It's not worked for them. They don't want to hear about it again. It's like, oh, I've heard these claims before. I've heard this mechanism before. And like, these are the same cheesy promises. You know, 12 other people just promised me for, like, my VSL on the VSL as I watched last week. Like, how is this any different? So that's really crucial. Just how you talk to them and how you address them and just being different from your industry.

Yeah. So jazz that enough for you?

You want more?

No, I mean, that was. That was perfect. Like someone said in the comments, you should totally take this clip and just make that a video. Just the common copywriting mistakes.

That was me.

Yeah. Oh, well, either way, yeah, totally gonna do that.

Totally make that a bonus for RNBC men.

Yeah. I mean, put on my podcast. But yeah, either one. Jazzing. Sorry. Question that really got the wheels turning there. Yeah. Thank you for the answers. Of course. Michael said, I also like to casually bring up an idea to someone I know is in the market, and if they seem shocked, I use that in a headline or in the body. Yeah, like that, Michael, That's a good idea too. Like always. Because even the mechanism stuff and the big idea stuff is something where you can go and explain that to somebody else in like one or two sentences and they immediately get it. So you're like, you know, the pimsleur stuff. Like I talk about that language learning, pimsleur method and for Krista Dodd wrote that letter. And it's like the idea of why is it so easy for a child to learn a language but so hard for an adult? Well, children learn by like listening and adults learn by speaking. You actually need to listen to learn the language. That's like the way we teach you. You're like, oh, wow, okay, that makes sense. It's a great paradoxical question, right? Why is it that a child can learn, an adult can't. But then once you hear that you like want to go tell other people about it, you're like, oh, do you know? You know, oh, you're taking, you're trying to learn German or French or whatever. Like you're having trouble. Oh, you know, I actually watched a video about this. People want to be able to go out and provide solutions. So if they feel like now they know something that other people don't, they can tell others and help others. And you have a really good kind of mechanism and big idea for your, for your marketing materials. So, Ed, let's answer another question. By the way. If people, I don't know if one's watching on Facebook Live today or if they're all in Justin's thing, but if anyone's on Facebook Live, I can't see because I just have my monitor up. I do. I love you all who are attending on Facebook Live. But Ed, when you have a chance, let us answer another question.

Oh yeah, for sure. So, next question from Aldrin, Gregorio Aldrin, kind of a mindset question here. What's your take on the balance of patience and impatience in achieving your goal? Some people advise to love the process because you have 30 to 40 years left in your career, while some advise to get impatient and try to achieve your 10 year goals in 10 months. I'm wondering, what's your take on this?

Good question. So, Audrey, how are you doing?

Hey guys, how are you?

Good. How are you?

Good, I'm good, thank you. So there are people that I follow that are advising that you should, you know, you should love the process so much that you're not after the outcome and you are loving the grind, things like that. And there are people who tell you to become impatient if you have a 10 year plan, do it in 10 months. If you have a 10 month plan, do it in 10 weeks. Something like that. So I'm wondering, what's your take on this?

That's a really good question. Also, I love your zoom photo because every time I see it, like, I just feel like I need to go back to school. But. I want to give you like a really good answer on that. So I'm definitely impatient, but I'm also probably detached from outcomes. So I probably do fall more on the line of the process. But that being said, I still have goals and I like to set bigger goals. And then once I've set the goal, I like to work backwards. Like, how do I reach that goal, right? So if I want to get, you know, 20,000, well, I mean, look at one is like I want to make a million dollars a month in income. I'm like, well, what actually needs to happen to do that? It's like, all right, well, If I get 100,000amonth from Copy Accelerator, if I get, you know, a couple hundred thousand a month from this, from that, whatever, like that's how I can reach that goal. And then, but then there, okay, well, is that already happening? If it's not, what do I need to do to get it to where that happens? So I do set goals and I work backwards and then I kind of look at like what I need to be doing, you know, on a month to month basis, on a day by day basis to then get to where that goal is reached. But I'm also on a day to day, I'm not constantly obsessing over where I'm at. If I'm how close I am to the goal, my measuring, my checking in like, you know, regularly, maybe once a month on like my progress towards the goal for sure. But in general, once you have the right planning in place, once you have like the. So have the goal, have your steps, your process to get that roadmap to get to the goal and then check in on that like monthly. But in general, don't worry about like, you know, what's happening on a day to day basis. Because if you're doing the right stuff that will get you towards your goal, then you should just be focused on the process and doing the things that are gonna get you towards the goal. You know, same thing like investing, right? If you invest in the stock market, if you buy stock today, you really shouldn't check it every day. You know, maybe you still will. But like really, if you're buying for the long term, then you don't really care what the happens to the stock in any given day. It's all about, you know, where it is in 10 years from now or 5 years from now or whatever it is. So I think, set the outcome you want. Figure out a timeframe that seems like, realistic to you. I would dream bigger. I would stretch, you know, stretch that out. So if, like, you know, if I am. If I'm thinking, like, you know, wanting to reach a billion people in 10 years and impact them emotionally, mentally, and financially in a positive way is, like, there's times where I want that to be five years, But I'm also like, a billion people is a lot of people. So for the time being, I'm still okay with it being 10 years. But there's other goals that I sort of like, if I start a new health supplement venture, my expectation is that I can be doing 100 million in sales within the first year. And I may not get there, but if I don't get there, I'm still gonna get close. So I like setting bigger goals in shorter periods of time, generally. But then once I'm doing that, I trust the process. Does that make sense? Does that help?

Yeah.

Excellent.

Stephan. I love the analogy with respect to stock investing. So that's great. That's great. Thank you.

Awesome. Yeah. Happy to help, man. Dude. Fun fact, by the way, for you guys on stock investing. I bought a bunch of Overstock.com stock like, two years ago because I was like, I went over crypto right before the crypto bubble burst, and somebody, One of the crypto groups was like, overstock's gonna, like, crush it. Like, you know, gotta buy it now. I bought it at $70 a share. It went all the way down to $5 a share. And it was like, for, like, last year, it was like, five. Under $10 a share, but I've just held it. And then randomly during COVID it's just been going up. It's up 23% today. It's at $77 a share. Boom. I'm up on it. Lifetime took me a year of more than a year. Like, two years of holding that thing and, like, just like. But not selling. Let's go. But, like, the point is, right, if I. If I don't trust the process on that, and I just sort of, like, sit there and sell because I freak out at $20. And I would have just be so pissed right now. That's at 77 to share. But anyway, Audrey, I'm glad that helped. Blockchain for the win. I know Ed Ray, who we got next? I'm really stoked on that. I'm glad I checked. Speaking of not checking every day, but the fact that I don't know why overstock surging so much, but we'll take it, you know.

Question from Rachel Spielberg. Assuming the best way to be to control is with a new lead, I prefer story based or a new big idea. What's the best way to approach companies and make sure they will actually use it?

Good question. What's up, Rachel?

Hi, how are you? Stefan and Ed.

Oh, Ed, you got the love too.

Hey Rachel. I'm great.

How are you?

Good, good, good.

So my question is like this. So I want to go on a sales letter spree and I like the story based but for story based I need access to like their case studies because I need a real story and I like the big idea. But the big idea or like a new mechanism is going to change the whole sales letter. And I don't want to write a whole sales letter if they're not going to actually look at it. So what's the best way to go about it?

Yeah, the thing I would do, if you're going after these people as sort of cold prospects and they aren't, you know, aware that you're going to be like sending stuff to them for them to potentially use, I generally find that you, you can still, and you like stories, you can still write stories. The way I would do it is if they have a spokesperson currently. What? Depends. Okay, if their current sales letter is all is already story based, then that's a different thing. We'll kind of come back to that. But say that there's not a good story in there now it's more like a spokesperson and they've got some curiosity stuff or like three foods that you shouldn't eat if you don't want to, you know, have bloating, whatever, then you can still find a story that's sort of like an emotional punch in the gut, kind of like captivating story and you can still tell it as the lead and then from there transition into like, you know, hey, I'm spokesperson. And as awful as that story is, or as crazy as that story is, it's something that actually I hear about all too often. It's way too common. And that's why today I needed to make this urgent video or letter for you. Because if you're struggling with XYZ as well, I want you to know about this new breakthrough that can help to blah, blah, blah or that can let you know, I need you to know about three foods that you might be eating right now that could be the reason why you're having this problem. In fact, it was too late for this person, or I only wish that this person I told you about at the beginning knew about this, because it could have made a big difference, but. And then just kind of going from there. So you're able to still take stories and tell them, but then you're just going from there to, like, the spokesperson who's saying how, you know, oh, yeah, that's a crappy story. But anyway, like, hopefully, if you can relate, you know, like, if you can relate, then I've got good news. I'm gonna go show you, like, a better kind of path forward or something. So that's sort of like the hack for that. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I did that on one of mine, actually. Just didn't feel as like it had as much impact as the full story going all the way through, but there's just no way around it, so.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it doesn't always. I agree. It's like I'd rather have the whole thing be a story of, like, a golden thread throughout, but. But a good story can do that. I think. We, like Justin Goff and I talk about Ian Stanley, who did something for Power for Homes or Patriot Generator or whatever, the one that Alan Baylor has. And Ian wrote like, this lead about how it was like, John didn't know he would die that night. And it's about this guy who, like, the power went out and I think he had a candle, and the candle lit on fire and if only it had a generator. And he tells, like, another story and then, like, that's it. It doesn't go back to John's story, but I know just adding that it was something like it, like, improved their conversions by, like, 150% or something crazy. So, you know, even that can. Maybe it's not perfect, but if it's something that they test and get some results and then gets you in the door with them, then maybe at that point they're like, more open to you doing a full sales letter and then you have a chance to tell more of a story at that point.

Okay.

Okay, that sounds good. And what if I wanted to do, let's say, a new, unique mechanism? Because I'm really good at finding those, but that really needs a whole letter. What's the best way to go about that? And I don't want to write it if they're not going to use it.

Yeah. That one's tough. Honestly, I think like if they know about, you have to do your research to know if like they understand unique mechanisms and if they think that you'll see the value in them. Like if they do right, if they're in the RNBC method like Facebook group or copy accelerator, you know, something like that. And you can kind of see that they like it. You could probably just be like, hey, you know, like, I'm Rachel. I have. Here's my awesome success and track record. I'm a great copywriter. Stefan says so. Which is true because for those watching listening, Rachel Spiel is a really, really, really good copywriter. And yeah, and like, you know, and then be like, you know. So anyway, like I know you know about unique mechanisms. I was reading your letter. I love it. I actually came up with one that I think could be awesome for you guys to test. Like, I'm going to give it to you. Here it is. Now I understand you have to redo your letter to make this all fit in, but I'd be happy to help you guys with that. If you're interested, let me know. And then either you could do it for free if you wanted to for the opportunity to work with them more in the future, or you could parlay that into them potentially hiring you and paying you. So I think you can totally still do that. But they probably do have to have an awareness about their mechanism and kind of understand this importance. If it's just like a random person out there who doesn't understand it, then, you know, then it won't work. But if they do have awareness, then I think you could, you could approach them that way. Okay, great.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, my pleasure. Happy to help Rachel. Thanks for asking. It's glad to get to interact. I know, it's great. Thanks. All right, thank you, Ed Ray.

We got next sick questions today.

Love it, man. This is fun.

We got a question from kmp. We all know how important it is to nail the voice of our influencer in our copy. One of the ways to understand their voice is to read their book if they've got one. I want to ask what should I look for while reading my influencers book to make sure that I nail their voice?

What's up?

Hey Stephanie. Hey. Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you.

Oh cool. So actually as a freelance copywriter, we are always out looking for clients and I got this amazing client, Amazing influencer has got a great product which focuses on, it's like a self help product but it's More based off on principles, proven principles. So I really like that it's not stuff. And I want you to know more about this influencer. So I got his book and I'm reading it and I want to eventually reach out to him. So I wanted to ask to you, like, there's this problem which I face a lot of times while working with different clients and influencers, is that while writing any sort of copy for them, my voice usually dominates their voice. So what ends up happening is I try to write in their voice, but it ends up sounding more like me. And honestly, honestly speaking, initially I really liked the first draft, but obviously that's not their voice, that's my voice. I send it to them and they're like, you need to change these things. That's not how we speak. And I tell them I get that and that, you know, that's the thing where I struggle a lot. I've been struggling a lot lately. So I want to make sure that I fix that as soon as possible before reaching out to this influencer. So I'm currently reading his book and I want to, I want to make sure that I'm looking for certain. If you've got any tips regarding that, I would love to know them. Like, what should I look for while he reading his book to make sure I need this point.

Okay, cool. I'm gonna let Ed do most of the answering because I know he mentioned he has a lot of experience. I do want to just give. Because Ed said kmp, so I wasn't like, I'm like, who's kmp? It's Krishna. So by the way, and what I knew as soon as you started talking, but like, yeah, and shout out to Krishna. Are you Krishna? You're 18, right?

Yep, yep, yep.

18 in India. Crushing it. Got done some awesome stuff. Krishna cold emailed me a while ago and then I connected into somebody and he's been crushing it. So I'm really glad to. Yeah. Stoked that you're here by the way, Krishna. Yeah, pumped about that. So I have a couple thoughts. But Ed, you go first, man.

For sure. For context, I've written primarily for very personality driven brands. Like the influencer themselves writes the like all their stuff and they're very like, they have pretty broad different types of personalities. So some of the key things that I always look for when it comes to writing for somebody else's brand is what are their overall philosophies on life? What are their core values? What do they talk about a lot. So it could be also what Are the like. Like, what are their methodologies? What are they big on? What do they preach about? Is that kind of making sense or is that.

Sure, sure, that.

As well. Look at their. Their language patterns as well. So if you go through like a lot of their emails and their YouTube videos, like Make a whole, like Google Doc or whatever, like read it out and you literally find all the. The phrases they repeat over and over again, just like subconsciously, like language patterns. So for example, if I want to be Stefan, I would put right, you know, consistently.

You see now, in other words.

Yeah, yeah, anyway.

Yeah, anyway.

So basically what that means is. Right. So like, these are all things that I've noticed from Stefan's language pattern. So you'd use these small little things in your own copy. More like. Usually the biggest complaint that clients have with voice is it. It's not that. It's not like their exact words they would say, but it's usually off the brand philosophy. So it's like, what are the brand philosophies? So for example, an influencer that I wrote for our client that worked for, they were super anti passive income, but they're super pro, like active income, like making your own income by doing. So if I start writing an email about how great passive income is, that goes against the brand philosophy and they're like, what the fuck is this? So you have to like, find out. Exactly. Jaz. What do they stand for, what they stand against. Exactly. And when you can kind of map all that together, find out what keywords they use a lot of as well. Also what kind of concepts they like to talk about. Because at least I'm in the online education space for the most part. And not everyone's gonna have this, but most people will on some level have concepts they like to talk about and teach. Do your best to just use those as much as possible in their words. Like, what you can do is you can literally go through somebody's sales letter who's like your client, like some existing sales letters, and just copy and paste certain lines that you think is applicable to what you're writing. That's written in a way that's like, obviously it's approved, so it's gonna work just fine. Yeah. That's all I got for you.

Cool. Christian, I have a couple more things as well. Those are great, Ed. Awesome stuff.

That was really helpful. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Really helpful. A couple other things I would say is, you know, you're reading this person's book, which is great, but if they have like video, I would Be watching videos with them too. So videos where they're talking, interviews, that kind of stuff. Because what I've generally found is that, you know, reading is one thing, but if I actually hear them talk and I can kind of hear their voice in my head while I'm writing, and I can actually hear it because I've listened to their interviews and videos and whatever, that can help a lot too. So I think that one's really important. It's not just about the book, but it's also video. Depending on when you work with an influencer as part of a project already, then I would just get on the phone and interview them faster. If you're trying to approach them or something, that's one thing. But I would generally want to do an interview pretty quickly because you just will by talking to them one on one and they're explaining stuff to you in like a conversational way that's going to help again with hearing their voice. So I think that's really important. And then the one thing I will say though is, you know, also it just depends on the person. Sometimes there are people who are just gonna be really difficult because they're just like never gonna feel like you got their voice perfect. But there's really nothing you can do about that. So you just have to be open minded to that as well. Like I did. I'm debating if I want to talk about this publicly or not. I don't know. I'll leave an open loop on that for now. But does that help? Krishna, if the video stuff and the.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that surely helps a lot. So before we wrap up this Q and A session with me, I want to make sure I got all things correct. So first of all, I'll start off by making a doc, pointing out things like what do they usually say? What are they for, what are they against? What are their opinions about certain things? How do you usually talk? Like, is a sentence more structured or is it more casual? And then if they've got videos, then I'll go for the videos next. Look at the videos, their language patterns. Is that right?

Yeah.

And like one thing to really stress for sure, like what Stefan said, which I totally missed, which is so, so key is listening to enough of their stuff. And bonus points if you can like see it, like watch a video of their. Of them talking. And while you're writing, literally have that voice of them talking in your head as you're typing. Like it should be literally like not you writing. You should hear them talking in your head saying what you're typing that's helped me so much.

That's like.

There have been a few times which I've like, this is like super sane stuff. Like I've accidentally tapped into this power you're talking about and it's really cool. And now that I think about it consciously, that's really helpful. Thanks a lot, Ed.

You got it, man.

Sweet. Thanks for your question, Krishna. Thanks.

Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys.

Mr. KMP. Next question from Luca. Hey. How do you fight procrastination? For me, it's difficult to sit in the chair and work three hours straight. Even if I give myself a prize if I make it. How did you do that when you were writing long form cellulars in only one day? I would really love if Ed shares his opinion and strategies about that.

Oh, well, Ed, do you want to just. You can go first if you want. All right. You know, I have thoughts too, but I don't. You know, the people want Ed Ray who might stand the way.

So. Hi, guys.

Hey, Luca. So what's up, buddy?

Oh, it's. It's been a long time since I speak with you because I was very busy with people like Matthia Paganelli and Marco Luzzo, so I'm kind of working with them. And yeah, I made some huge steps forward. And that's all thanks to you, Ed and Stefan. Because before knowing you, I was like, demotivated, but now I know how to. Yeah. Go forward. So my questions. Yeah, okay, so my questions was about how do you stop Procrastinate. Yeah, procrastination in general. Because I find this so difficult where when I sit here at my desk, I'm like starting writing, but then I start distracting myself unconsciously. And this makes me so like, bad when I'm writing. And how do you like, fight that?

I got you. Thankfully, it's a very, very easy answer, but not one that most people have an answer to. How often do you check your phone? How often do you check your phone?

Oh, my phone. It's like five feet away, two meters.

Okay, but like during the day, how often do you check it?

Oh, maybe five, ten times, but for ten minutes.

Like during the whole day?

Yeah, not that much. I study a lot.

Do you. Do you have like other apps up or do you close everything down? Like Facebook, like Skype, Slack, you know, whatever. Like, do you just sort of have everything closed besides a blank white page?

Yeah, so I close pretty much everything. So I have only Google Chrome for all the research stuff. And Google Docs opened in Chrome and then some Word files that I use for research and brainstorming for the single sales letter, etc. What distracts me is like the window. It's pretty cringe to say, but there is a window like 1 meter away from me. And normally I watch out for getting inspired, but sometimes he distract me. So I try to close the window.

And yeah, two things go ahead.

I have not that much distraction, so this is pretty cringe.

Yeah. The two things I would talk about is maybe three, I don't know. So one of the easiest is to do Pomodoros. If you haven't done Pomodoros before. Are you familiar with Pomodoros?

Yeah, I know it, but I never tried. I do like three hours a block of work study, so from 9 to 12, and then I decide when to do it based on when I eat, etc.

Yeah, cool. So Pomodoro's, I mean, and even maybe make it turn into like two hours instead of three hours maybe. But essentially it's like doing. It's like intervals, right? So for the next two hours I'm working on this project. That's all the time I have for today. And with Pomodoro's I get 25 minutes of work and then a five minute break and I'm doing the five minute break. I walk around, stare out the window, do whatever. And then 25 minutes, five minute break. So you do four of those sessions if you actually do that and commit to it. What I've generally found happens is I don't do this all the time, but I've done it. When I get into like a funk or I don't want to like write is that I will spend the first half of the first 25 minutes sitting around being pissed, annoyed, not wanting to write, whatever, but I'll kind of force myself to do it because I'm like, well, I'm going to stop in 10 minutes anyway. And then I'll start to find something that's interesting. And then the timer goes off and I'm like, whatever, stop for five minutes, walk around. All right, well, I got 25 minutes. Go back into it. This time it takes me like five minutes to get into the groove. But then by the end of 25 minutes, I'm like really into it. And then the timer goes off and I'm pissed. I'm like, oh man, I don't even want to take a break. Fine, come back, right? And then I'm really in the zone for another half an hour and a half an hour. And like that Alone can really help. Sometimes we get really. I think we procrastinate if we just don't have. Yeah, you give yourself three hours, but maybe that's too long and maybe you feel like there's not an end point and maybe you feel like, you know, that's. Maybe three hours is too much. But there's these little chunks of time, like, you know, these little 30 minute intervals. You know, I think that helps tremendously. And then another thing that I think can really help a lot of it too is like, is having the game plan, right? So if you use RNBC method for writing copy, like, one of the reasons that's helpful is because when you're doing a Pomodoro, you've got 25 minutes and you haven't started. You're like, all right, well I'm supposed to be doing research. So you're not kind of sitting there thinking, what am I supposed to be doing? It's like research. Now I've got 25 minutes to do research before I have a five minute break. And like, you know, and by doing RNBC, you have like a full roadmap or plan for your sales letter by the time you go to write the actual copy. And then usually it's a lot easier to actually write the copy. Generally when we procrastinate or struggle with writing the copy, it's because we just don't have a plan or a roadmap and we don't actually know where we're going with it. So we sort of feel like stuck or not sure what we should be doing. But if you have a very clear, structured plan or roadmap plus in combination with pomodoro's, I think that would help you significantly.

Oh yeah, I never tried the RNBC method physically. So right now I'm working with the Mattia Paganelli method. You know Mattia? Yeah, and he, yeah, he work with the certificate method. So he do the research first and then he found he find a big idea. And yeah, all the work there is not a real schedule about this. So about that. So yeah, I will try our NBC.

Yeah, I would try. And Mattia knows RMBC pretty well, so maybe you can even talk with him about how to blend.

Yeah, yeah, I talk with him and he said that RMBC is very good, by the way.

Okay.

It's very, very good. Also, Lucas, so another question for you real quick before I move on to the next question. Uh, at what point in your working schedule do you find that you're distracting yourself and looking out the window Is it like, right when you sit down, like, do you sit a blank screen and, like, you're like, oh, shit, what do I write? Like, what happens? Walk me through it.

Okay, so I never have these white blank screen. Yeah. In front of me because I really do research first, and I have around 2000 words of research and I work on it. If I haven't. If I have nothing to do, I find really difficult to concentrate and work when I am at the end of the research and I'm trying to find headlines and a big idea or a mechanism, a solution mechanism, a problem mechanism.

And. Yeah, so I'm. Oh, so it's just you don't have a process for creating copy. That's it.

Yeah, I think this is it.

Yeah. Because to me, that's what it sounds like. Because what I was going to say is, like, actually got it structured out for sure, like using rnbc. And then once. Once it, like, starts to. Once you start to feel like, okay, like, you're. You're ready to actually write the copy, don't, like, sit there and just, like, think about it. Like, once you have everything already planned out, just start typing. Literally. You can start, like. Doesn't matter what you say, just get the words going. You can lose. Be like, oh, God, I don't know what to start my headline with or what my headline should be.

Huh.

Well, you know, this thing is about, you know, glass bottles and beaches and, you know, I'm thinking about being at the beach right now. And then. Oh, and then you can kind of like, kind of. Once you start getting the flow and you, like, kind of get past your mental blocks, then you can actually start to write without, like, from a place of no judgment, which is where the flow comes out. And the best copies created also get past a lot of the distractions because then you're in the flow. You just have to get into it. Once you structure your copy, which is what some of the issue is just rnbc, man.

Yeah, of course. So thank you very much to Ed Reai, obviously, and to Stefan.

You got it.

And yeah, thank you.

Awesome.

Cool.

Ed, I know we got time for maybe just two or three more. I was going through some of the ones that are like, I'm kind of interested in Michael McGoverns. I think I can answer really quick. Michael, I'm gonna answer this one without putting you on live. I think just because I can probably answer, you said, you know, congrats on the podcast momentum. Thank you. Question for today. If you're putting out content and with the goal to attract clients. What platform, type of content would you focus on to have the biggest, quickest results? Thanks. I guess, Michael, actually, one question I have, and you can just put in the chat, is it specific to copywriting or is it different? What kind of clients? Yeah, copy. Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean I'd be looking at like, you know, value. I mean obviously value based content platform wise. I actually really like LinkedIn because it's really, I think it's untapped as far as getting like viewers. Like LinkedIn really wants to promote good content. So if you're writing like kind of articles, posts, things about, you know, three copy mistakes people are making that are hurting conversions, four split testing wins you could do that could improve sales, things like that, your reach on LinkedIn's gonna be really high. I get anywhere from 400 to a couple thousand views from almost every piece of content I put on LinkedIn. I put something there daily and then I'd have people hitting me up but trying to hire me based on my content, which I then don't want to be hired by because I'm not trying to get clients right now. But LinkedIn is really, really valuable for that. So I like that. I think, you know, Facebook, we talk about leveraging Facebook groups so like posting adjusting and stuff and talk copy. If you're in RNBC method, right? Doing something there, kind of creating like value. But yeah, just highlight value stuff based on like, you know, you can do little kind of credibility drops. Like as somebody who's done this, this and this, this is what I've seen or the common mistakes or the three biggest opportunities or four things or sharing case studies of wins you've gotten for yourself or for clients where you break them down. People just love that stuff because there's a lot of value there. And then, Ed, I will, obviously you've been, you've done a great job of that. You started pointing out content to your personal Facebook page and you know, build an email list from that and, or you know, have positioned yourself as a Facebook compliance expert, which you are. Ed, is there anything you would kind of add to what I just said?

Yeah, I think like you've really covered all the bases. But the one thing to remember, especially when putting out content is it's not going to hit home. Like it's not going to be home running from the start. Like it's going to take a few months of you like transitioning your message and dialing it in after talking to more and more of your ideal clients and really talking to them and finding like what they want to hear and what problems are actually having and then even dialing in your avatar too. Like for me, for a while I wanted to go after anybody who was running Facebook, right? I was like, hey, you tired of like getting your ad account shut down? Like, what do you do about it? Meh. No one really bit. No one bought for me until I started changing my approach and I started talking to people in the direct response industry who are already making money on Facebook. They're doing really well and then they get shut down and that's when they hire me because it's a bleeding neck problem that's literally costing them money, but took a few months to do that. So just be aware that if you start doing what Stefan's mentioned, the results are not going to be immediate and it's going to take some adjusting and pivoting.

Yeah, that's a good point to you real quick because, like, it is also the consistency of it. Like actually for the freelancing course that Ian and I are doing that I've been teasing for like forever, but like is actually coming out next week probably we didn't want to do it this week and compete with Justin. But if you actually look at Win, who I think is on Wynn, if you're still on this call or not, I know you came on. I actually went through and looked at every single one of Win's posts in Justin and stuff and talk copy and like his first post had like 6 likes and I think 1 comment or 0 comments. And the next one had a few likes and like maybe one comment. And it wasn't until like his eighth or ninth post that people started like, suddenly he had one that had like 43 comments. And then he started getting more people. They got used to him posting, they started responding. Then you saw when where I had the one where I'm like, oh, you know, fuck it, I'll hire you for something. And I did hire you for something. And then you had other people like trying to help you. And so really it was like, what was your consistency? If you just posted one or two times and said nobody's responding, I give up, then you know, that wouldn't have led to the stuff that's led to. So yeah, I think that that is a really important point too. All right, Ed, I'll let you pick the next question. I just want to pick one, kind of grab one for sure.

It's a great question here from. Oh, wait, no, they just jumped off. Nevermind.

I did like John's question, which is towards the bottom. I don't know if I have the perfect answer, but I'm happy to answer that one since it's me talking about myself, so it's easy.

Go for it. All right, well, yeah, let's do it.

Yeah.

John Kaprani asked Stefan, I can tell watching you talk that you've mostly gotten rid of self loathing, have moved yourself. Oh, it's moving up in the thing. Give me a second. Where did it go, guys? Don't like it while I'm reading it and have moved yourself to a place or forgiveness, acceptance and self love. Was there a methodology that helped you shake off old hurts and free yourself from ingrained patterns that previously held you back? So, John somebody literally liked. Hey, Stefan, what's up man?

What's up? Like that. I always love the fire digital marketing icon we get here. Yeah, so, yeah, that's a good question. Do you want to add any more context or was it pretty self explanatory?

Just that I think. Oh, I'll give a little context. I had a call with Gary Chappell a while ago and he was talking about this idea of forgiveness and self love as being at the core of like, basically, you know, freeing yourself to actually do the things you want to do in life. And I just always get that vibe when I'm listening to you talk that you've already got there. So what helped you get there?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, to be the obligatory. Girlne's here. She made it last two minutes, she's here. She's like Indiana Jones, like pulling the hat out right before the door shuts, you know. Sorry, John, I have my add kind of busting as I'm about to answer. Like, the key to happiness is girlen. No, but yeah, the big leap, right? The obligatory. Obligatory read. The big leap. I think it really helps. I think that winning and having success does really help too, as you start having more and more victories and you build momentum and you start to have more confidence. I think that helps a lot. But then you still have to exam, like examining yourself and your behavior and your actions and why you're doing certain things. Like, I've talked about how when my first sort of supplement company was doing, kind of started doing a lot of volume and that one company did like 23 million that year. I found that I went through this phase where Laura, my wife, was at in Brooklyn doing grad school. We didn't have my daughter at the time, so I was by myself in Vegas a lot. And I would go to, like, started going to the casinos regularly and playing blackjack. And, like, I'd, like, lose, like, every time. And I would go. And it wasn't, like, enough money to where it was putting me in a totally financially precarious situation. But it was curious that, like, once or twice a week, I'd go have a couple martinis at dinner, play blackjack by myself, lose, like, a thousand dollars or whatever it was, and, like, just do it like a couple. It was like, a habit. And I could. I. But I never won, which is not statistically you're supposed to win when you play blackjack sometimes, right? But I really think, like, what was going on there is that it took me a while to realize this. I had to examine, like, that pattern and be like, why am I doing this? I'm like, I think I'm doing it because I have this money coming in. But then rather than being grateful or feeling good about it or using it for positive things, I feel like I don't deserve it. And so I'm going to the casino and literally giving my money away because I'm not worthy of it. And, like, realizing that actually made this really big, kind of, like, it was a big moment for me. And I kind of stopped going after that because, like, I don't think it was instant, but I still want a few times. But then I knew why I was doing it, and I'm like, oh, I'm doing this stupid thing again. You know, why don't I not do that? And that helped me to break that pattern. And then, like, moving into the kind of copy accelerator and teaching RNBC and, like, coaching and training and helping others and then getting feedback from people, right? When I keep helping people and keep hearing stories from people who are winning, whether it's, you know, Krishna, who, like I said, is 18, he's in India, he's got clients. He's crushing it now. Or people in copy accelerator. Rob Tidwell, who quit his job after the first time we interacted. He was like, that was his goal, to quit his job. He quit his job a few months later and hasn't looked back. Ed Ray, on this call, has tripled his income. Like, all of these people, Like, I can look at and see that I've helped them. Then it's really easy for me to then have that positive feedback loop is sort of feeding me constantly. And it's. As that happens, my confidence grows too. I'm on the right path. I'm doing. Quadrupled your income, Ed. Sorry. But I'm doing the right stuff. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And there's this positive feedback loop. So a lot of it just comes to, like, also like looking for feedback and being open and receptive to it as well. Michael Roshin has got the best paying job he's ever had. What's up, Michael? So it's not like a perfect answer. I mean, this took time. But I really would say it's examining the reasons behind your actions as much as you can, identifying patterns, and then once you have a pattern, you know, really critically looking at it. And then, you know, again, focusing on building momentum, building wins, getting positive feedback, and then making sure that as that happens, you don't slip back into those patterns. So continue to monitor. And if you see yourself slipping back, pausing and saying, hey, wait, am I taking the action I'm taking right now because I'm, you know, really want to take that action, or am I doing that as like a response kind of mechanism to kind of what's going on in my life? Does that, does that help, John?

Yeah, to some extent. Yeah. I mean, what it sounds like you're saying is basically you just got to hang in there and keep on chipping away and it just. You turn the corner sooner or later.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I go back to like Stephen Covey and the seven habits of Highly Effective people and this idea that personal victories precede public victories. So I just also think focusing on like when you have little wins for yourself, when you're a better person, like just when no one is looking or watching, I think even little things like that build a lot of confidence. And then from there, like, that helps too, with the self loathing, right? Like if I do this call, but then I in the show and I finished it and I went and like ripped off a client, or I started like messaging with some chick who wasn't my wife and like flirting with her, or I put out some crappy product and tried to make a bunch of money, or I didn't pick up some trash on the street where all this crap, if that was who I am, then I'm gonna have self loathing, right? But if I'm a person who is really committed and focused to my family and who is, you know, like making the bed every morning, just all these little things, like, I just think there's a compounding interest that happens by having really good kind of personal, private victories. So the other thing I would say, like, you can really start small, but that stuff does compound too. And over time, if you're doing that stuff and you create habits out of that stuff and then you look in the mirror and you're like, honestly, I'm like, I'm not a. I'm not a bad person. Like, hey, like I can sleep at night. Like, I'm. I'm a pretty good human being. Like, it, you know, then that helps you to the kind of. It's hard to be self loathing when you're not giving yourself a reason to be self loathing, you know, I don't know if that helps too. I mean, again, there's no perfect answer to this, but that's kind of the best I've got.

I hear what you're saying. I've pretty much got the big stuff dialed. It's just the little stuff I need to tidy up a bit more. And I hear what you're saying. When I help other people, that certainly is what makes. Makes my day a lot of the time. By being helpful to somebody else.

Yeah. And so just focus on more of that, you know, I mean, as much as you can do that, keep doing it. I mean, there's a selfish side to like everything like this, the office I'm doing and like the open office days and the mini masterminds and running a private jet flying around. You know what I mean? Like, it's like I'm not doing it for selfish gratification or ego, but like I feed off that I feel happier and better and like what I'm supposed to be doing. So like, that's one of the reasons I'm doing it. And I think just, you know, having. Yeah, I mean, the more if you feed off helping people, then trying just keep having more and more of that in your life, you know? Sure. Okay.

Thanks, Stefan. Nice, man.

Yeah, of course, man. My pleasure. Yeah. John is amazing. John, by the way, we value you so much. You are super helpful, by the way. John, I know you, unlike the different Facebook groups, contributing, sharing. I like that you put that post a few weeks back or whatever it was a week or two ago where you kind of like really shared with who you are. So I'd say just keep sharing because you're actually a huge. Even when Brooks and I were talking, John, I wish I hadn't thrown you off as I started talking about you and praising you. But yeah, I know you're listening, John. And like even Brooks and I were talking about kind of like people who stand out and who contribute in the different communities. And then literally you're the first person we talked about it was like, oh, like John Cabrani. Yeah, Winston, his copy dad. So, like, I think that's important to think about too. John is like, do, you know, honor that and celebrate the fact that you are having a really, really positive impact on people's lives right now. Already you're doing it currently, I think, if you think about that and think and then just, you know, do more of it. But like, you are already just an amazing person who's really having an incredible impact on people's lives. So I do want to honor you and thank you for that, John. And now you're getting the John love in the chat, which is well deserved. So, okay, with that being said, if we didn't get to your question, you know, I'm sorry, I told Ed I'm gonna try and honor, you know, these hour and a half time limits because as a busy man, he does this out of the kindness of his heart. Really appreciate it. So we're gonna wrap up here. Thank you all so much for coming, attending, asking questions, hanging out in the chat. If you're watching on Facebook Live, thank you so much for watching there. This will go up on YouTube tomorrow, the replay. So if you watch it there, please subscribe, like, comment. And when it goes up on itunes and you listen to it there, make sure you subscribe to the podcast, leave a good review if you enjoyed it, all that kind of stuff. But thank you all so much, really appreciate it and just can't wait till next week. So thank you everybody.