The 5 Biggest Mistakes That Prevent Freelancers from Reaching $15k+ Per Month

There you are, Mario.

Yo, what's up?

What's up? I'm hit start webinar. So let me start.

It says cannot start your video because the host has stopped it.

Oh, my God. I feel like these settings are just watching it. I'll start it and then I'll cool. I'll go mess with the settings. I don't know why I wouldn't let you guys do that, but say hello to everybody coming in and who knows what else. If chat's disabled, all that kind of stuff, I should have gone through my settings and more. More in depth. But let me try this. Let me try making you a co host and Luca co host and see if you can do your video then your co host.

All right, let's see. There we go.

All right, cool. Perfect. Then for everyone jumping in, I will look at these chat settings and make sure that people can do chat. It's always like.

Luke's emotional support is there too.

Yeah, it's always solid. Everyone coming in. We'll get started in just a minute. Good to see everyone hopping here, though. I got chat for everyone. Are you all. Is chat disabled for all of you right now? If it's not posting in the chat, let me know, but I'm guessing it's disabled right now. Attendees can chat with everyone. Boom, there we go. House and chat with everyone. Boom, There we go.

Yeah, there you go.

There we go. Much better. Yeah. I need to change the default settings there. Everyone coming in. Do change your setting to everyone if you can, versus panelists and attendees. That way everyone can. Everyone can see what you got, and that'll be solid. And from there. Oh, well, thanks, Neil. I appreciate that. Science of nice looks. Probably talking about you, Mario. Gotta be Mr. Let's trust me. Good to see you, Forest. What's up, buddy? So, man, got a crew coming. It's recording even. Look at that. You remember to put have record on. I seen half of. Half of Nick Verge's face behind Luke. Nick Verge. How you doing? Cool. Well, let's just dive right in. What's up? Greg in Minneapolis. What's up, David. Vance. Bashir, of course. Kevin Gilligan. Kanza. Dan from Montreal. Karan, glad you have the session. Rodrigo. What's up, buddy? Jake, Wu. Subha. Tom. Thank you. Simon in England. Perfect. India. Fushiwam. Murder Capital Chicago. Drew, stay safe. Alberto in Italy. Good to be here. All right, so we're gonna Talk today about five biggest mistakes that prevent freelancers from reaching that 15k per month threshold. And we'll go through each of the mistakes. We're also going to talk about the different phases that we've identified that a lot of freelancers and copywriters find themselves in and kind of explain as we go through these mistakes, how they match up with the phases in many instances. Before we do that, take a quick minute for introductions here. I'll go ahead and introduce myself and I'll pass it to Mario and to Luke, who are both men of fewer words than me sometimes. But if you are watching this, you probably know who I am. My name's Stefan. I am a copywriter by trade. I do a lot of things today as an entrepreneur, but really, copywriting is the common. The thread and the common denominator for these things that I. That I do. It's really what's made. Made me able to go from. From being broken, living in a double wide trailer in 2011, to being a pretty happy, successful dude today. And I bring that skill set to everything I do. But started as a freelancer, freelance for years, in fact, still will take on freelance clients every now and then and have helped hundreds, if not thousands, I guess really thousands of freelancers over the last couple of years through Copy Exciter and things of that nature. So that's me, Mary. You want to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Yep, sure. So my name is Mario, and most of you are going to say it wrong. That's okay, no problem. I've been writing copy for 10 years now, and pretty much every single niche that you can imagine. I have like eight figure letters, and men's dating is up, a bunch of health letters. I've done sports betting stuff. And the biggest thing is that I've been through every single one of the stages that you guys are going to go through today on this call. So I know all the problems, all the frustrations, and fortunately, I know how to also get past that because I'm in a good spot now. So that's what I got for you.

Cool. And then, Luca, go ahead.

Nice.

Can.

Can you hear it?

Is the audio pretty good? Yeah. Echoes every time you're in that room, so. But it's all good. All right.

Anyways, my name is Luke.

What's up, everybody?

I am sometimes known as Stefan's protege, which is true, I was plucked from obscurity a while ago by Stefan. But I've been a copywriter since, like, beginning of 2020. So I also have been through all of these stages, and not only that, but like, very recently. And I have very clear, vivid memories of each of them and very happy and very grateful to kind of have moved past a lot of those. And, yeah, super excited to have you guys here and talk through this stuff.

Because.

A lot of these, like, sticking points that we're going to talk about today is stuff that we've seen. It's not just, like, ideas that we had, but things that we've seen.

And.

That I've personally seen and that we've all seen with freelancers that we worked on all levels, people who haven't made a single dollar from copy all the way to people who have made thousands and thousands of dollars. So we know these sticking points are real, and I'm super excited to talk about them because I think, you know, if you guys pay attention and implement what we talk about today, it's going to be.

It's going to be pretty awesome, for sure. And you know what? Fuck it. Nick Verge, do you want to say. Say hi, Introduce yourself. Nick Verge is a good friend of all of ours. He's an incredible, really highly successful freelancer and entrepreneur. He's also Luke's roommate now. And Nick helped us with some of the ARC or the kind of phases stuff that we're going to go through. So since he's behind Luke anyway, rather than just have a creepy guy in the background, Nick, you want to quickly introduce yourself, too and kind of say who you are.

It would have been kind of funny.

If we just never explained me here.

And there's just like this little vestigial twin attached.

Attached to Luke right there.

There. But, yeah.

Guys, my name is Nicholas Verge. I started off before I even got into copywriting. I was in sales in, like, 2019. Got really good at it. And when I learned that I could sell writing, which was, like, really my true passion, I was like, oh, wait, this is, like, amazing. And so I went all in. I've been doing copy, I think, since 2020, at that point. 2019. 2020. And it's just been, like, an amazing, amazing journey to me. I personally think that my life would just be absolute crap if I didn't discover it. And really, I think what's helped me go through all these different stages as well, you know, when we constructed all these different archetypes, I would see myself in these different archetypes. I think a lot of what helped me actually move through them, there's a few different things. One was actually, like, surrounding myself with the right people in the right community who pushed me outside of my comfort zone because proximity is powerful. Two was like, actually investing in people who could help me and not Trying to figure everything out myself. And then three was just overall, like, just having that determination to just stay consistent and focused no matter what. Like the feedback loop was. Even if, like, I wasn't getting any responses from outreach or whatever, I was just always, always just hammering it. So those three things really helped me move through these different progressions. I think you guys are definitely gonna.

Definitely gonna go.

Yeah.

I didn't prepare to meet you at all. I just. Freestyle, guys. This is what I do.

Come on, guys.

I mean, yeah, Nick. Nick definitely has the gift of gab here. So very gifted. If you guys want to, I'll take us into the start of this. If you guys want to try and find a place where the echo is not so bad, just so the audio quality is better, frankly, might be a nice addition. But in the meantime, let's kind of dive in and. And go through this stuff here. So I had this on a very fancy, very fancy Google Doc. I was almost ready to make into a PowerPoint, but I kind of ran up against the clock on it and decided not to. Not to worry about it. Rather just have the content be good. Kind of got this from Justin when he and I would do webinars. Justin Goff, we'd like, do you do the docs? And I was like, oh. But. But then really it's like much easier. So like I mentioned before, the topic Here is the five biggest mistakes that prevent freelancers from reaching $15,000 plus per month. But we're gonna get those mistakes a second. But first we wanna talk about those sort of phases, or Nick called them archetypes, but really phases of the copywriter journey that we've been looking at and kind of identifying the reason this is important is because, you know, depending on where you are in your journey, different things are gonna be most appropriate for you. Different actions to take, different mindset shifts to make. Just, just. It's kind of different depending where you are. Right. There's no one size fits all approach. I think that's actually an issue with a lot of like copywriting mentorship and training out there in general. So here's the phases we've sort of identified. The first phase is the rookie. And if everyone, Everyone can see my screen, right, let's say in the chat real quick, make sure you can. I don't know if you can see my screen here. Good. Yes. Okay, perfect. So, yeah, the rookie, really someone who's new to copywriting, direct response, often naturally curious. You know, maybe if you're a rookie, you've heard about People making money with copywriting through Dan Locke, Andrew Tate, Jason Capital. You want in, but you really need like the fundamentals. You needed the fastest path to producing usable copy. You're usually best served by specializing in short form like emails or YouTube ads or Facebook ads. Probably need a lot of encouragement and reassurance because you're very early on and you sort of have some self doubt about this and you don't really know what the heck's going on. And if you could produce copy that real companies could actually use, it would probably blow your mind. That's the rookie phase. There's five phases, but Mary or Luke, do you guys want to mention anything about that rookie phase before? I, I want to kind of lay out the phases for people and then as you all are watching this, think about which phase you're in. But anything you guys want to add to the, the rookie phase here?

Well, it's probably the most exciting phase. It's also probably the most terrifying phase when you walk like, you just feel you're just walking into this crazy world that you don't even know, like, existed before. And you see like all these exciting possibilities, but then it all, it seems like fantasy to you. Like, you see stories of people making all this money and you want that, but like, it takes a while for it to settle into where you're like actually thinking this is real. And the point is, like an important point is when you're in this rookie phase is to not get lost by all the hype and the promises that people make and like, realize that this is a real career that you're gonna have to put time and work into to get good. But if you actually do that stuff, you really can like, live an amazing life.

Yeah, it's kind of the phase where I think another interesting thing about the rookie phase is that it's not just a, a phase where you're like, am I, Is this possible for me? But also your friends, family, your spouse, other people are probably asking the same question. And while you feel optimistic, they probably feel more wary. They probably feel like you are going down some path that's gonna be a waste of time or money or isn't realistic. A lot of times you end up dealing with a lot of like, doubters and people from your, like friends from high school or college or whatever it is who don't, you know, don't understand it at all. So you, you see possibility, but it's also a phase where you're often can be surrounded by a lot of doubters too, which is the interesting part about it. So the next phase we've kind of identified is the student phase, which is a really interesting one because there's a lot of people who match that phase too. So, you know, the student is someone who keeps reading about copy buying courses, but putting off the act of actually writing copy, never took on a client, has massive imposter syndrome, feel stuck, and then really needs to be guided from inaction to action so they can get better and actually work with clients. There's a lot of people. So for our Genesis program that we're doing, we have an onboarding form and we have people fill it out and there's. There's a lot of students in that form where it's like they've, it's like, how many courses, what other courses have you bought? Right? And it's like a whole bunch of these courses and you're like, okay, cool. What's your ability as a copywriter from a scale of one to five, and it's like a one or a two. What's your confidence? One or a two, you know, out of five. So five is the highest. And it's sort of, it's so it's common. It's okay if you're in that phase, but at the same time, you know, we got to get you out of that phase as well. Right. And. And because at a certain point, theory only goes so far, you can keep immersing yourself in theory until the end of days, but really you got to get it into practice. Right. And. And so that's the student phase. Mario and Luke, y' all want to add anything?

Yeah, this is, is it sound better here?

Yeah, way better. Way better. Okay, good.

This is a phase that like a lot of people, when we did the eight week mentorships, a lot of people were in this phase. And one thing that I notice about it is so it's like, it's really almost like an addiction in many ways. And it's an addiction that people have to like to the learning. And it, it's almost like a. Becomes a crutch at a certain point. And it's good that you need the theory. You need to know those things. Yes. You know, there's other other things, less pretty names you can, you can call. For one thing, I, one thing that I, I started telling people who are kind of in this phase is like, it is you always need to be sharpening your sword and you do always need to be learning. But the ratio of learning to action, in my opinion is about it. Like a 8 to 2. So 80% action and about 20% studying in theory. That's because, you know, it's so simple, but it's like you can't get muscles. You can't get in shape by reading about it. And so even the theory that you're learning, even the, the books that you're reading or things like that, unless you're actually able to apply them, and unless you're actually able to have a context for them, you're actually not getting that much out of them. You need to, you need to apply those skills, struggle internally, and then actually the theory that you're reading and the books you're reading are going to come alive so much more. So breaking that habit of needing it. And then I think really the biggest thing at this stage is, like, is the confidence. Because I've just had so many people who come to me and tell me, like, hey, like, I just don't think I'm ready for my first client. I've been studying for three months. I've been studying for six months. Like, I keep doing this, and usually most of the time when I look at their copy, I'm like, this is actually good. Like, you're actually in a stage where you need to go and get clients, and the only way that you're going to accelerate your skills is again by doing the work. So it comes to a lot of confidence, I believe, and then some other things too, that we'll, we'll talk about as we go forward. But the biggest thing is confidence. But really, if you understand the fact that being a student is a good thing, it's an amazing quality to have, and you should treasure that quality, but realize that you're actually holding yourself back from learning as much as you can if you're not using those actions. And if you can remember a ratio of 80% to 20%, I think that'll be helpful for a lot of people.

Yeah, that's great. I like the, the gym analogy because it's so easy to understand, but it's like you could read books about how to build muscles for the next five years, but if you don't work out, you're never going to build any muscles. Right. It's such a simple way of looking at it, but it's, it's so true. Same thing if you're, you're copywriting freelancing muscle. So, yeah, any imposter syndrome. We kind of played with these different syndromes here where it's like, there's sort of like shiny object syndrome. There's Imposter syndrome. There's also what I kind of would almost call like, wage worker syndrome, which I'll come back to in a little bit. But something interesting to that. There's a lot of these syndromes that we. That we deal with. Right. So let's move on to phase number three, which is the lone wolf phase. It's, of course, funny because I've always historically had a trouble seeing the word wolf, and yet we have it here. I said like wolf, like a dog wolf or something like that. But the lone wolf phase. So right here, the lone wolf phase, you know, you study copy. You, it says, may have taken on a few clients. I think in this case, you've actually probably got. Almost certainly have clients. You're probably not getting the data that you want, though, a lot of the time from these clients. They're, like, not giving you. You're always getting data, so you're not really sure if your copy is good or bad. You don't get feedback on your copy, except for from sometimes from a client. But they're not even qualified to judge all the time. It's like random person, and they're like, oh, well, sue in my office didn't really like this line of copy. And you're like, well, I don't know. Does sue know what she's talking about? I have no idea. You can kind of feel lost in directionless. And really what you need is just a clear path to, like, improvement and moving forward. The lone wolf one is an interesting one, though, because, yeah, there's a lot of people that fall into that sort of that realm. And as I'll do for each of these, Luke and Mary, anything you want to add to the lone wolf phase? That's interesting. Mario asked in the chat how many people feel like they're in the lone wolf phase.

Yeah, I mean, this is like, when you get to this lone wolf phase, this is a huge pivot point. Like, you don't want to get stuck in this phase because it can feel like it's you when you're in this phase. It can feel like you could never get out of this phase because you're just doing the same things over and over and like you're getting the same results or not even knowing what kind of results you're getting, and you don't know what to do that's actually gonna. Like, you don't know because you're not getting any feedback on your copy. You don't know what you really should be working on to get you out of this phase where you can actually start getting wins and making more money and stuff like that, that's the most frustrating part about it, is that it's like, so. It can feel so directionless at times. Even if you're, like, doing 90% of the things right, and you're so close to making that breakthrough, you never know, like, what that 10% is that's going to actually get you to the next level because you have nobody telling you, like, where you're messing up, that. Where your breakthrough is right there. Like, you have nobody telling you what you actually need to make that next step. So even though you're so close, it feels like you're so far away because you don't know how to get past it.

Yeah, for sure. Paul asked, is this a long version of an email about Genesis? I don't want to waste time here. Thank you for reply. No, Paul, it is not. It is going through these because they are foundational to what we're teaching, and then we're going to go into the mistakes. However, if you don't want to be here, then you can definitely leave. And we will, you know, we'll keep living our lives. So, Luke, anything you want to add to phase number? Phase three here?

Yeah, not right now. I think, like, yeah, I think you and Mario hit it. But the really, the biggest thing is, like, I'd say this is, like Mario said, this is the. The. The turning point. I actually think that's key because I think this phase here can be, like, it could definitely be one of the hardest and the loneliest. The reason it's called the Lone Wolf is because, like, not only do you feel directionless and, like, you're not getting feedback on your skills, but it also feels like I. I distinctly remember this stage because I was just literally by myself looking at a screen, typing things, and I'm like, I have no idea if I'm even doing any of this right. And tomorrow says something really powerful in the chat, which kind of got skipped over, which is like, feedback is what gets you out of this stage. And it's like, feedback. You can get feedback from clients, but a lot of times you're working with clients who may not understand copy, like we said here. So getting real feedback from people who are actually in the industry, it gives you so much. Like, it's not just a matter of getting better, but it gives you a sense of safety and a sense of, like, community, because you know that you're not just sitting here making things up in your head. It's like I'm actually providing value to people. I'm actually making an impact, I'm actually impacting sales. I'm actually on the right path. So the community part is, is super key for this. And the coolest thing is before we go on to the next ones is like each one of these phases, it's up to you how long you want to stay in these phases. It really is. And it's like that. It's in some ways it's like, it's harsh because it's like, it's like, man, I'm stuck in this stage, it's up to me to change it. But it's also very empowering because I know that even I had a pretty, pretty fast like career path, but I stayed in all these stages way longer than I needed to. And I like genuinely, genuinely wish I had some sort of roadmap or path like this. Because if you know and you have people who are willing to guide you and then it's completely up to you, you know, you can move through these phases very, very fast and get to where you want to go.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Well said. All right, so phase number four is the grinder. Someone who's stuck with an in house role or agency work or too many clients. I think put in the chat if you think you might be a, a grinder, we'd love to hear. And yeah, this is where I talked about almost like wage worker syndrome, because it's almost like you may, it could be a mindset thing or it could just be a something, something you're stuck in. But basically you're trading time for money. But it's not just that because even at 15k a month, you might be trading time for money. Right? The challenge is more so you're sort of looking at like it's not exponential money. Right? The way that what I want to talk about here for a second is like as a freelancer, like lots of us, really where a lot of people want to be is where they're not trading time for money, right? And that's like the goal of like the entrepreneur, the business owner, like the investor. It's like not trading time for money. That's a long term, ultimate dream goal for a lot of people. But there's steps and phases even like we're doing the five for freelancing and beyond that over time, of course you want to go to like where you're making a hundred K a month or a million dollars a month. But the point is like to get to that 15k a month mark, like we're going to talk about a lot of it is not that, yeah, you're going to trade some time for money. But it's like, it's exponential money. It's fewer, it's fewer hours for a lot more dollars. And that's where the wage worker thing, I think. So does copyright ever become exponential? Well, I think where it becomes exponential from the way I'm talking about it is like instead of making, you know, the equivalent of $20 an hour, you make the equivalent of $2,000 an hour. Right. That's pretty exponential there. It doesn't mean you're going to make $2 million an hour. Like that will never happen from copyright alone. It's a skill set that can help you to get there, but you can have pretty exponential income growth as you progress through these phases. And some of the stuff we're going to talk about today. So the way we kind of look at this here, right, you're working like we said, at an agency or in house on a retainer, maybe a full time salary. But you often feel overworked and underpaid. It can feel like you're lacking process. You're always trying to beat the clock at the last minute. You don't have time to really think or strategize. That's a big thing that I've dealing with a lot. When you're working all the time, you're like, man, I feel like I could have better ideas and bigger picture like ideas but like I don't have the time to ever think about them because I'm literally just trying to like survive and then I'm exhausted. You know, you might feel like you're not putting out your best work for a similar reason. You just don't have the time to do your best work. You want higher paying clients, you want to work on projects with more potential, more impact, but you're also kind of afraid to leave, to ditch this retainer or to ditch your in house role because, or the agency role because you know, what if you're not good enough? What if you can't get consistent clients on your own and then really feedback strategies for clients and reassurance. I mean there's a lot of people that end up in this I think about like, you know, gosh, like Ed Ray, a lot of, you know, I mean Ed was like an in house copywriter when he was in copy starter in 2019, 2020. And I remember being at a dinner with him after our second event, the one in Las Vegas in February of 2020 and he was making maybe like 5k a month and be like Ed, you realize that you could go on your own and make like 10, 15, 20K. I remember saying like you can make easily make over, you know, 10k a month, maybe 12k a month. And Ed's eyes got really big. He's like, are you serious? I'm like, dude, yeah. Like you're like you're well known, you've been, you know, an in house copywriter for a well known person. Like you're in copy accelerator. Like. And then he quit that job of that person. I think he doesn't mind talking about these days. It's a well known person, right? And pretty quickly, almost actually pretty much immediately started having 10k plus months and, and still does, right? And Saba Karimi, she's like the basically CMO for Beast right now. So she's still in house but making over 15k a month. And same thing where she left her job with, with somebody well known, an agency job. She was working nonstop, was so scared. I'm like, Saba, like you're in a place like one interesting thing about this role is for a lot of people in these agency roles is what you have to realize is that the blessing of that is, is if they're a well known agency or a well known company and you're a big part of it, like you're building up a reputation for yourself and you can leverage that person's reputation or that company's reputation when you leave. And it's like, oh wow, they were like a, you know, one of the star copywriters for xyz. They must be good. And you can pretty much immediately demand higher pricing and more premium pricing. So if you have that experience and you got track record at an agency or in house when you do leave and you know, I'm not saying you have to, I'm not trying to. Agency owners don't hate us. I'm not saying you have to quit that job today or tomorrow. But typically you actually have a pretty exponential, again, exponential being like relative, but like a pretty big leap in your income pretty quickly because you actually have way more demand. But the biggest thing is like how we talked about there's a fear of leaving because what if that doesn't happen? I've got this nice, steady, consistent thing now. What if I leave and it feels like scary, right? And yeah, Luke and Mary, you guys want to add to that one before we go to number five?

Yeah, I think it could be really frustrating. The bad Thing about this phase is that it could be so frustrating. But the good thing is that the people that are in this phase can easily just get out of it, like very quickly people, because you already put the work in like you learned what you're doing. You usually have a lot of experience. Even if you don't feel like you're always writing at a top level. A lot of that, A lot of times when you're in this role, you're actually writing at a lesser level than what your true capabilities are. If you weren't always forced like overwork to crank out work like, like quantity wise, like if you could, if you had the time and the ability to charge more money and focus more on the quality than just always having to get this stuff in because the agency is like overworking you. You'll be actually be surprised at how much better results you can actually get for clients when you go out on your own. So not only can you charge more, but you actually produce better results. In a lot of cases, there's.

100%.

Yeah. And for myself, when I was in this position, I was working with, with an agency and it was good. I like the people that we worked with, but I remember literally writing, I think, a hundred emails for a specific launch. And I didn't, I only got paid based on how well the launch did. And it was like the whole idea was completely flawed. So I ended up spending, you know, weeks writing hundreds and hundreds of emails that never even got tested, that I never even got paid for. And you know, I thought that it was cool to get the reps in and it is cool to get the reps in. But like Mario was saying, sometimes you're, you're doing so much that you're not able to focus on the quality of it. And I think the big thing with this one is, is really mindset because I think I struggled with, like, I struggled with wanting to charge more. It felt very, and the reason why is it felt very comfortable to charge less than what I could. Because when you charge less, you feel like you're less, have less responsibility. When you charge more and you put a higher price tag on it, you feel a little bit of responsibility. You're like you, you feel that, that pressure a little bit. The interesting part is that pressure is exactly what ends up making you good in the long run. Because if you're just pumping out low quality work for low quality pay, you're going to be stuck in this cycle where you never, you're never push yourself to a position where you need to grow. So having the belief that one, you're worthy of charging more and then also putting yourself in a situation where it's like, now that I'm charging more, I have to actually deliver, which means I have to level up my skills. I promise you, there's no situation or environment you can put yourself in that's going to help you elevate faster. Is it uncomfortable? A thousand percent. But is it worth it? Like a million times 10%? I don't know what that is. I'm. I'm a writer, not a math catch. But yeah, those are some of the points. So it's, it's, it's a mixture of lack of confidence in self, but also it's a mixture of like not wanting to take on the responsibility. And once you break that, like, it's very, very powerful.

Yeah. Cool. Let's go to number five in our phases here. And this is especially phases up to like that 15k a month mark. So there are other phases kind of beyond this, but these are the big, primarily primary ones. So the fifth phase we have here is the Journeyman. So someone who's been writing copy for a couple of years or more, they're pretty seasoned, might make between 4 to 8,000amonth. That's like an average. I mean, I see some journeymen who may have a 10 or $15,000 a month, but that doesn't mean they can do it consistently. Right. You know, we have here doesn't have any big wins at this point, but I would actually say too, a lot of time the journeyman maybe does have a couple of big wins. The problem is they don't really know why those ones were wins and other ones weren't. So they probably have something that they wrote for a client that did well and they go around using that and all of their samples, their proposals or portfolios. They leverage that really hard. But then they probably wrote two more things for that same client and then turns out like they didn't do well. So they don't talk about those ones as much. Right. It's kind of same issue though with the lone wolf, where they're not really sure where to go from here. They have no clear improvement path. They're kind of stuck at like this income ceiling. They're paying bills, you know, they've got a little bit of discretionary income at this point, but at the same time, like, they could be making more money and getting better results for clients if they could level up. And they're not exactly sure. And they really just need to know how to produce better results, but they're just not, they're not sure. And then really there's two types there where I've seen from copying starter, where there's those who recognize that and then are humble about it and want to learn to produce better results. And then there's the ones that become sort of stubborn and feel like, hey, I've been doing this for so long, I should just be making more money. And there's sort of an entitlement and a seat at the table that they want. And then frankly those people you just see continue to, to like, they, they pontificate and kind of guru around and stuff like that. But like then they're also putting posts like, hey, taking out a couple clients this month because you know, you're like, oh, because they haven't actually figured it out, right. So the journeyman's an interesting one. And if you're in the journeyman phase, the biggest thing is to continue to be, you know, you want to keep getting better there, right? Because like you can go so much further than that four day K per month average. And it's, you're really very close at that point. That's really where you can get the 15K and like, you know, 90 days, 60 days at most on average, like averaging that. It's really usually one of the easiest places to make the lead. But I think one other thing I'll point out is like, you know, sequentially, like obviously the further down you are, the closer you are to on average getting that 15k per month thing. Right. I saw what you're saying about the Genesis. I'm saying I'll answer that question a bit later on. On Genesis stuff, I want to kind of deliver content here. But you guys got anything to add to Journeyman before? The Journeyman before. I do want to get into the mistakes, of course, and make sure we're, we're getting into some of the meat potatoes as well.

I think a big point about this stage is that like you said, people are good usually like pretty decent at copy here. You know, you can get people decent results. But at this point you've been doing this for a couple of years, you probably have like set patterns that you fall into and you don't know, you can't really see your blind spots of like what you're doing wrong as what because of why, like what you're doing wrong. That's not giving you that consistency in your results. You're probably making the same mistakes over and over. And like if you Work with a good copywriter who can see those mistakes right away and point it out to you. You'll recognize things that you won't be able to recognize on your own. And like, that's why the improvements in this stage can be very quickly. Because if you could just point out to somebody, like why you're making this mistake over and over, would they think they're doing the right thing? Might actually be holding them back from getting the results that they want.

Yeah, Nick, I see you in front of the camera more. Are you gonna add something or is that just where the camera was? Okay, all right, cool. All right, cool. So that being said, let's kind of jump into these, these mistakes. But, but why is this important is because again, I want to look at how these sort of mistakes can, can match these different, different phases. So let me go on to mistake number one. And these are ones that I sort of, I actually, honestly, there's a lot of mistakes, but these are five that I, I put a lot of thought into and, and think are, are worth diving into today and that we can, in an effective amount of time. So the first is that you might have a distorted long term view of time. And I want to explain what I mean by this. Right, so there's the whole adage of like, most people overestimate what they can accomplish in a week or month and vastly underestimate what they can accomplish in a year. And that's like a cliche, but it's really true, right? It can feel like results aren't happening fast enough or momentum isn't happening quickly enough. And then I think that's where a lot of times people fall victim to Shiny Object Syndrome. I think also sometimes, like imposter syndrome is related to this too. But I think a lot of times it's like there's imposter syndrome and you don't take action. And that's why things aren't happening fast enough. A lot of times it's also, even when you are putting in the work, it's like things don't feel like they're happening quickly enough. And so you get shy object syndrome. You go over here, over here, or over here. Right? But the problem is that like, this does keep you from achieving mastery. And really with mastery comes an increase in income. It's like one of the biggest elements of it. So the quote I have is Shy object syndrome is a trap set by the devil to keep you poor. And that's Stefan me. But it's a good, it's a good quote Right. I really think this is, this is true. And we'll talk a little bit more about it here. Now I go back in time 10 years ago to this is from July 14th of 2012. I'm writing to Wilco de Creji, however you say his last name, who's still one guy in our space. And you can see I'll actually zoom up for this part so it's easier to see here. Hey, Wilco, I'm glad you were pleased with the work that I sent you. I've made revisions based on your notes and attached the update in this message. Here's how I price One Time otos. Like One Time only offers similar to upsells, right? I view them as unique pieces of copy and essentially mini sales letters. I was very long in the tooth in this time. Even though they are shorter than a full on sales letter, they do need to be a couple of pages customized, compelling and fluid. As such, my normal price is $149 per 149 for an upsell. Right? And I was trying to like tell him like rationalize that price by talking about how there are many sales letters and all this kind of stuff. Probably because I charged him 149 for the sales letter and I was trying to charge the same for the oto and I felt like I had to rationalize it. So 149 for a sales letter or in this case an upsell. It took me about 20 hours to write one of those. So basically my effective I can't talk hourly rate was about $7.45 per hour. This was 20, 2012, right? So how did I go from that right. To making over a million dollars in a year as a freelancer? This is like a thing from back in 2020 where I made over 1.3 million just in freelancing income in 2020 from CNBC's growth. And so let me share something else that's kind of interesting to look at here. So in 2012, when I started, what was I really doing? I just came into this world. So I'm like, all right, freelance direct response copywriting. But then people on upwork, you know, it was called elast at the time, are like, what about, can you build websites? Like, yeah, SEO, sure. Content writing. I was trying to do media buying, social media stuff, all that. My net income that year was about $50,000 in my first year as a, as a full time freelancer. 2013, it was basically the same stuff, still focusing on all that kind of stuff. And my income was about 80,000. So there was an improvement. I got, like, you know, I got a little bit more confident, better at getting clients, stuff like that, you know, That's a good. It's a. It's a. It was a nice improvement for me at that time in my life. I was like, oh, I can. I'm not pawning stuff as much to pay the rent as I was in 2012. Right. And in 2014, I really went all in on. On direct response copywriting, and my net income was about 500,000. So there's about a 10x increase between 2012 and 2014. And really from 2013 to 2014, even from 80,000 to $500,000, it's a massive increase. Right. So that's the difference. I found this. I was going through images. This is my driver's license from 2012, 2013, when I was in Pensacola, Florida. I obviously had to. I would try to blur out anything like, you know, if this goes on the Internet to replay. But it's like, for being like a wolf, a wolf man, like a mound man, whatever, to, like, this guy. This is me in 2015. And not that this car. This is like, oh, look, I got a nice car. It's the fact that I had enough money to even. To buy this nice car, which then I was like, obviously very proud of, because first time you get something nice, you like, you are kind of obnoxious about it until you realize, like, that nobody else really cares that much about your nice car and just you. Nick's not his head as a. Bought a Porsche, like 23 or whatever, 22 when you. When you bought it. And by the way, I put, like $30,000 down for that car so the payments would be low. And that was like the dumbest use of money ever. But still, it was nice that I could do it, right? It was a nice little. It was a nice little, little, little leap. And I've got, you know, harder to see here, but much, much more cleanly shaven, confident. Things and things in life are going a lot better here. So I want you to know, though, like, the reason I went from 80 to 500k wasn't because three years passed by, because think of the grinder and the lone wolf and the journeyman and student, these different archetypes. Plenty of people have been doing copy for three years, and they didn't have a leap like that. So the reason that I got the jump is really because it was like. It was like time. Yes. Like, really focusing and getting better over three years, but then really focusing in one year. So plus focus. And then I was obsession. I was really obsessed with trying to be the best of my craft. I was. I was. I was practicing. I was writing copy. I think a lot of, you know, the story of how I had the client in Romania and they paid me on volume. So it was basically like the more VSLs I wrote, the more money I'd make. And as a result of that was like, very like, you know, like that the more I practice and obsess about being the best, the better I got, the more money I made. And Paul, thank you for saying that. He said to the host and panelists, we kind of mentioned, you know, that I don't want to waste time, could have been rude. And that's okay. We understand. Totally get it. That's the reasons I tried to pull back from being too much of a dick to you because, you know, I understand. It's fair you're here. You got a lot going on. So totally good. But we've made nice. More friends again. Okay. Right. But what doesn't look like is cmo, offer owner, real estate, crypto, media buying, crypto again, whatever, Right? It's not that any of these things are wrong. It set. There's a time for everything. But, you know, the. Here's the really important thing I want to kind of hammer home, and then I'll open up to the. To the guys here. The reason you're not making 15k per month isn't because you're just a copywriter. Are you just a freelancer? Right. That's a bullshit marketing tactic used by people who want to sell you trainings. It's like their unique mechanism. Right? It's sort of like, oh, hey, the real reason you haven't made 15k as a copywriter is because you're only a copywriter. Become a CMO and companies will gladly pay you. Right? That's completely bullshit. It turns out there's a lot more demand for copywriters than there are CMOs out there. Which is why people stopped using the CMO terminology and went to like, offer owner, which is like, also. Not that that's a bad path for people, but it'd be great. Like, you know, I'm an offer owner. People. People both to me like, oh, you talk about that, but you own offers. It's like, yeah, first I got really good at fucking copy, made half a million dollars a year, is just a copywriter. Then I went to offer ownership. Right? There's a big difference between that and. So the point being, though, it's really focused on going. Going deep. And I think that's the primary stuff I have for number or actually, I have some ideas for how can. How can you recalibrate that distorted relationship of time? And I would say, you know, commit to focusing on copywriting or any skill set. Right. If you don't want. If copyright is not for you, it doesn't have to be copywriting. If you want to do list management, super duper. Do list management. If you want to be a cmo, go be a cmo, media buyer, whatever it is. But basically, at least the next six months, really, it should be the next 12 months. Then I would really try and journal and track your progress. I brought this up a few times recently where I had my Evernote that I use during different phases of my life, including when I was becoming an offer owner. And it's like all those days of frustration, all this stuff, but then you. You kind of look back after a few months or whatever it is, you're like, oh, you know what? I did actually solve those problems. I actually am further along than I thought I was. And then lastly, is obsessing over your improvement. So, fellas, y' all want to share anything on number one about the sort of distorted view of time and yeah, photos. Ask for examples. Yeah, I mean, I really, honestly, if you just did almost every morning, like, it could be a couple of things you can do. I'll track wins. I'll be like, hey, here's copy I wrote for clients this month. And here's like. And I have basically categorized by, you know, if I have a result, was it good, you know, or bad, basically, but hasn't been deployed yet. Hasn't been deployed yet. And I'll kind of go back and update that. And as I get data, either way, I'll update my little. My little journal about it. And then I'll kind of like, also do a quick thing about. Here's what I've got, what I'm working on, here's what I'm. What I'm worried about. Here's the opportunities that are in front of me. Here's, you know, kind of what I'm thinking and really just even doing that kind of stuff. And then, you know, if you just do it consistently and you go back and realize that the problems you felt like you had, you actually did resolve. If the issues you thought you're, you know, like, like some of the clients who helped you work with. Oh, I actually did end up working with that client or I did, and they sucked. But Now, I know that, you know, it's not like just there's no one make or break dream client normally, so things like that. But yeah, guys, I think that's an.

Important point about how you talked about how, like, obviously you're, you're the reason why you aren't making $15,000 a month is not because you're just a copywriter. Because all four of us clearly got way past $15,000 a month by just writing copy. Like Stefan, I know you do other things now, but you got there by being a copywriter, right? The problem is you're probably not good enough as a copywriter yet to make $15,000 a month, which is fine because you can change that. And the other thing is that, like, I know, like people want to be offer owners and stuff, that's cool. But if you think about the numbers and stuff, for every offer owner who makes it, they're going to be employing multiple copywriters. And even some of the ones who don't make it are going to be employing copywriters. So your chances of getting like the $15,000 a month is getting people to pay you money. And if you're playing the percentages, obviously, like, if you're talking about getting to $100,000 a month, yeah, you might have to be an offer runner to do that. Are you trying to get the $15,000 a month giving you all these distractions that are going to stop you from getting money in your hand right now? Or probably like focusing on one skill set and getting money in your hand right now is probably going to slow you down from getting those where you actually want to be.

Yeah, one other quick note on that too. I don't want to go too deep on this offer ownership discussion and be to death, but it's like Nick Daniel, CEO of E Shred, studied a ton of copy, wrote the first VSLs for V shred. Right. Later on, hired copywriters, now hires a ton of copywriters, including you, Mario and me. He's hired both of us over time. And you've done retainer stuff with him. Steve Gunn, right. Wrote his own copy, now hires copywriters. George Karen Estasis does 50 million a year, bro. Like, wrote all wasn't a copy, then hired. You know, Luke and I like the list goes on and on. A lot of like the more successful operators like Harry Belcher, you know, copywriter identified as a copyright start. Dan Sullivan, copywriter restart. Like, if you look at all these people, they all. Porter Stansberry. Yeah, they started as Copywriters, they got really good at that. Then they. They went on, that's what I'm. That's my model too. So my whole thing here is not like, hey, stay a copy referral. Some people love doing that, and that's great. Mike Pavlis. We talk about Mike Powell, which I love. Great copywriter, Hilarious, dude. I don't know how old Mike is now. In his 50s at least, but, like, the guy's happy being a copywriter. He's bought a condo in Florida. Like, you see the beach. It's sick. Like, probably, I don't know. Mike makes like 20 to 30k a month as a copywriter. Maybe more even. Honestly, maybe he has some 40 and 50k months and he's good doing that. So that's what you want to do. Great. But if you want to be an entrepreneur and want to be an offer and all, well, you're already an entrepreneur as a freelancer, but you want to be an offer owner, and you're ambitious and awesome, that doesn't mean it would hurt you. It would still help you to spend a period of time to get really good at writing copy.

All those people you name that are super successful offer owners, if you asked any of them if they regret the time they spent learning good copy, nobody's going to tell you that they ever regretted that. Because even if they're not writing copy today, they still have to be able to hire people and know what good copy looks like. So you're not paying money to people that are going to take your company. Yeah, you need to know what good copy looks like so you know what good copy is and you know if you're getting it so you can get your offers to work.

Yeah. So true. Luke, what do you got?

Yeah, I mean, I think the whole point of. Of this conversation is if you want to have success in any endeavor, you need to start to stack skills.

Right?

You need to. And you need to start with one skill. What skill you choose. You ultimately decide to do media, buying, sales, it doesn't matter. But your goal should be, I'm going to master this skill. And once I master this skill, I'm going to stack a new skill on top of that. And once I master that skill, I'm going to stack a new. A new skill on top of that one. And once you stack those skills together, that's when you unlock a lot of great success. So the point is, like, if you want to be a media buyer, you want to do sales, you want to do something that's amazing Whatever path you want to choose. Amazing. The point that we're trying to make is you need to make a commitment to the path that you want. And if copywriting feels like the right one, then go for it. And I'll tell you, in my experience is actually really funny, is when I started my path, I was like, I liked writing, and I was like, I think I could do this copywriting thing. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make a commitment to myself. I was like, I'm gonna work on 100 projects. In my mind was like, 100 sales letters, right? And I'm gonna track it. And if you go and look at my copywriting files, it's, like, literally labeled number one, number two, number three, number four, and number five. And I started working on this. My first job ever was some random guy on Reddit who lived in the UK and sold, like, things that made your room smell good. And I was like, hey, I'm going to write you blog posts for free.

Okay?

That was case study number one. It's labeled in there. Case study number two was like, I moved on to something. This. I got paid $5. Case number study three, I got paid $15, right? And my whole thing was, I'm going to shut off all distractions and I'm going to focus until I reach 100. When I reach 100, then I can sit back and be like, okay, everything is cool. Unfortunately, I didn't make it to a hundred. I'm still only on, like, 60 or 67 or 70, right? Because by the time I reached 20 or 30 is I started, you know, making 10k per month and 20k per month and et cetera. But that's just to show you is like, my whole thing was, I knew it was going to be easy to start something and get distracted by something else. So my thing is, I set a commitment to myself. I'm going to try this copywriting thing until I reach a point. If it doesn't work, then. Then I can look around and be like, all right, let me try something else. So the point is, like, having that long time horizon and really making an internal commitment to this is the skill I'm going to master. Mario and I have had this conversation for years before we even became, you know, part owners, a copy accelerator. Every time we would get together, we would always talk about the people who are most successful are the people who focus on mastery. They love the craft.

Yeah.

They love to learn about the craft. They love to get better. They love to see results. They Love to geek out about it. If you're obsessed with getting the skill right, then the money will follow from them.

Yeah, Stefan, are you cool if I add something in on here?

Go for it.

So I'm one of the guys that firmly believes that the grass is not greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it and take care of the grass. So you have no doubt, no lack of people saying, you should go do this, you should go do this. Because again, it's like, what step and said it's these marketing tactics. I'm someone who fell for that and thought, oh, I should totally go become a cmo. That's the best thing ever. So, like, what my life was as a copywriter was I would wake up, I'd be like, okay, cool, time to start the day. I'd be like, journal read. I have like a cool little morning routine. And then, like, I'd write for good amount of time. Then I'd go hit the gym, come back, write some more, eat dinner, go hang out with a friend. And then, like, the day would be over. Super awesome day. Like super simple. And then I had this, like, you know, vision sold to me that a CMO is the best thing you should do. You know, you have so much more leverage. You have equity in the company. And it's amazing. And I had this opportunity presented to me where this company was already doing 100k a month and they wanted to give me equity in their company. I think I got like 15 or 20%. And I was like, oh, this is awesome. And it's going to grow so much more. And so I go and I start handling this. But now my day was not just as simple as right. My day was wake up. And they were like, hey, you know, look at the ads. Hey. Oh, actually, this isn't working. This isn't working. This is not working.

Hey.

We had this problem with our sales team. You need to listen to these sales calls and this, that, this, that, like your vision and your focus gets scattered across all these different things. And just to be completely honest, like, that's not an easy thing to do at all. That's actually very, very difficult to scatter your focus and still be able to stay consistent with it. And I honestly just realized at a certain point, like, I felt like it was completely over hyped up because someone will tell you, oh, it's easy. Yeah, just go do it. And then you do it and you realize, holy shit, there's like a million different hats I have to wear here. To do this. Whereas, like, when I was a copywriter, all I had to do was write, copy, submit it, check on the feedback, and then like, hey, you know, they'll, they'll look at the numbers and then they tell me, oh, this isn't working. This one is. Could you rewrite this one?

Sure.

That's all I had to do is write. So I think that we have to also look at the fact that, you know, all these different tasks, like how many of them are as simple as just write, like talk to people and write and learn about your skill set. That's how simple copywriting is. But all these other routes just get so fricking complicated the more that you go down them. And, you know, I just don't see a lot of people talking about that because obviously no one's going to talk about the downsides of what they're selling to you. They're only going to tell you about the, you know, the, the upside and the positive and everything like that. But with copy, yeah, sure, you need to get really good at writing and you need to learn how to write and you talk to people and you get out of that introvert box a little bit more. But like, to me, it's so much better than having to manage people and having to do all this crap and having to go all around. Like, I would way rather do that than have to have all those responsibilities on my plate. So, you know, that's just me. You know, people may say I'm being dumb. People may say I'm capping myself, I'm limiting my income. All I found out at this point in my life, guys, like, we live in a really, really nice building. I have a nice car, I have a nice lifestyle. I can go do whatever I want whenever I want, buy whatever I want whenever I want. Like at a certain point you'll be like, you're not a millionaire. It's like, well, I don't really necessarily need to be a millionaire right now. Not saying I'm not going to ever become a millionaire, but like right now I'm cool just cashing in 30, 40, 50k a month. Like, I don't need it to be anything more than that. That's just like, it's you being ungrateful for what you have and that. So that's just, that's just my thoughts on the whole subject.

Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you. Appreciate that. I was thinking what, what Jake said. Yeah, I agree with that part too, Nick. Jake. But also what you said next to you. So Cool. All right, let's keep moving because I want to go through it actually. I have a. This next part might take a little bit of time, but it's probably, I think, hopefully valuable. But I think mistake number two is if mistake one was about kind of long term, kind of horizontal relationship of time and the distortion there. Mistake number two is kind of about the short term, you know, vertical relationship with time and a toxic relationship. Because I just feel like, you know, the idea of like so many people say I don't have time for that and they feel pressed for time. The reason this matters is because then you go and you like end up brushing client work or you feel like you run out of time and you're up against the clock like we talked about. Or you kind of get burned out because you're working all the time and because you're working all the time. Like you and you get burned out, you don't do as good of work and you're not prospecting and you're exhausted. All these different things, right? So I really don't like the idea of like I don't have time for that because I feel like you never have time to begin with. Right. You create time and you create pockets of time, you create moments in time. But I think you need to look at not as someone passive, time passively happens to you, but that you are actively engaged and involved with time and you're a manipulator of time, if you will. So this is for me, like I do these sometimes. And so I was like, how the fuck do you do this? I was like, this is not even like a very complete list. But it's like in the last two weeks I wrote two damn good VSLs. Promoted Genesis to my list. I read Michael Odell's book Play Nice. But when I've read 50% of two other books. Watched UFC fights on Saturday with Luke, Nick Cole Gordon, Chris Stable. To much people watch five ex Padres baseball games. Baseball games are like four to five hours long because they're in the playoffs. Got drunk. I put three times. Might have been more than three times. We'll stick to three for now. You know, came up with a whole new feature for copy starter pro platform that we're doing. You know, spent nine hours on co. I'm working with three coaching clients right now and I did the three month terms for all of them. So four and a half hours per week, nine hours over two weeks coaching. Got a haircut, did mediation for the divorce stuff we're going through. Been on countless Other calls. I've dropped my daughter off and picked her up from school pretty much every single day. Every day this week so far. Almost every day last week. Worked on my Legion NFT project. Wrote a new sales letter for CA Pro, Put a new reel up on ig nearly every day. Wrote an email to my list every day. Hung out with friends multiple times. That's like all just in the last two weeks. Right. So then it's like, am I some superhero? And it's. It's not. Yeah. How do you manage it? Right. I just know how to create time and how to like kind of manage my, my relationship with time. It's not even managing time. It's like your relationship to time. So I'm going to show something from a PowerPoint from a presentation I did. It's about 20ish slides, but I hope it's a. This is really tactical, so I hope it's worth. Wow. So let me pull it up here and I'll. I'll show you all what's going on. So let me pull this up. Give me a moment and I'll get it to. This is from a talk about these sort of nine excuses. So let me go to presenter mode for this here presenter view. Cool. So this is like sort of the same idea of like there's not, you know, enough hours in the day. Oh, you know what, the start in the middle of the wrong thing. Let's only start from where it's supposed to actually started. So I don't, I don't screw you up here. Again, this is tactical, but this is really the way I manage my time and stuff. So hopefully this is going to be valuable to you all. Okay. So I kind of call. It's like also known as I like to go on Facebook and pretend I'm working. I don't know how to prioritize. I don't know how to value my time. This talk that I do is like, I'm kind of yelling at people. So I'm not trying to be a dick with this stuff in here, but like, it often can be that anyway. Right. But here's the thing. 24 hours can be a lot if you know how to use those hours. And so I want to share this process with you because it can change your life and give you back a lot of time and freedom. And I want you to, you know, I'm going to make the recording available, so if you don't get every single part of this, I'll send out a replay to my email list and you Know, make it available. So like on Sunday or Monday morning, I think Sunday is really better. You take like 10 minutes or 20 minutes to write out every single thing on your to do list for the upcoming week. And it might look like this. These are just the numbers or the letters don't matter. Sort of like, I gotta do this, this and this. Like I got. Here's all the stuff I gotta do here. Big old big ass list, right? All right, so then for each item, this is like the Eisenhower box component, if anyone's ever heard of this. Decide if the items are important and urgent. Meaning like, man, I have to get this done and it's urgent. I got to get done now. Important, but it's not urgent. Like I really. It's really important. It's a big needle mover for me in my life if I get this done. But it could wait a week or two. Not important, but urgent. So it's like, this isn't really even that important, but it's urgent. I'm getting like phone calls, I'm getting, you know, like just being hammered. I got to it's urgent or it's like not important and not urgent. And so it's just something that's sort of, you know, nice to have. So like I said, the Eisenhower box, they have way of looking at it, right? Important, urgent, important, not urgent, not important, urgent, not important, not urgent. So, right, so you go through your list and you kind of categorize them this way, right? So okay, we've got some of these are important in urgent. These are important but not urgent. Some of these are not important, but urgent and so forth, right? So for anything in number four, that is again, not important and not urgent, just like save those items somewhere if you want, but then get them off your list because they're not important and they're not urgent. So why are you worried about them? They're not important, they're not urgent. Why are you worried about them? You wrote them down, great, Go put them on an evernote, put them in a Google Doc, save them away over here. So now your list goes from looking like this to looking like this. That's already a big difference, right? Cool. So Friday in group number three, that's not important, but it's urgent. Like, okay, it's urgent, but it's not even important. So why are you going to prioritize doing something unimportant? So same thing. Save those tasks somewhere. Delegate them. If you have an assistant or something, or like, you know, whatever it is, and then get them off Your list because they're not important. There's lots of urgent things, but they're not important. So what? Who cares if they're urgent? Everyone. Everyone. The more you grow, the more people are going to demand your time. The more demands you'll have for your time, the more things are going to be urgent. But they're not important. Just doesn't matter. That's one of my biggest secrets to success. And it can be. It sucks because sometimes it means not replying to people, not following up, things like that. But, like, kind of is what it is, right? So, okay, now we went from, you know, here to here. So how much less anxiety do we have? Already looking at this list versus the first list that we looked at. Right. This is going to come directly to copyright. And I'll show you how in a second. Right. Okay. For anything in group two, it's cool you're working on important stuff in your business or your copywriting career or whatever it is, but these things aren't urgent. So we don't even. They're not urgent. Why are we gonna do them? Save them somewhere else, get them off your list. You can schedule them later. Now we go from this to this. And this is pretty accurate. I want you to take a second to appreciate the difference. Already on this, though, right? So it's like, okay, we started here, now we're here. And all we did was get rid of, like, everything that wasn't important and urgent. This is the power of the Eisenhower box. Now, in this case, right? So you're with an agency, you've got retainer clients. You want to. It could be that you want to study clients. You can be working on a VSL and have emails to do. But like, with an agency, there might be 10 other things like, hey, we want an email. I got to follow up this person. Somebody hit me up about a potential thing. All that kind of shit that gets, you know, is in our mind. But if it's not important and urgent, truly, then it's off the list. So then I go through those urgent, important tasks and I rank them. What I love about writing VSLs or any type of copy, honestly, but for me, it's. VSLs is if I'm against a deadline on that, then it becomes kind of de facto the number one urgent and important task. And it actually provides so much structure to my entire day and my entire life that I'm a way more productive and better person when I'm writing copy regularly for clients. Which is one of the reasons why lately I've Actually been doing more VSLs for clients because now I'm like, that's urgent, important. It's high priority. So in our example here, let's say you rank them right. This is the first most, this is the second most, the third most, the fourth most. And I would just for up to four to five tasks. But really rarely in any week it's unlikely or rare that you're going to have more than four to five tasks that are truly important and urgent. So after you've done that, we take our most important and urgent tasks and we figure out how many hours it's going to realistically take for us to complete the task. So let's say your number one urgent, important task will take seven hours. Say that you're working on a. You have to write, you know, 10 emails for a client and you're like, all right, I can write one in about like, you know, half an hour. But let's give a little Patty. And I think it's gonna take seven hours. Or I've got to write, you know, seven Facebook ads. This take me an hour per. Or, hey, I've got, you know, I've got four weeks to do this VSL, but it's going to take me maybe like 28 hours total. And so if I do seven hours a week, then I'll be good. I mean, It'll take me 20 hours. I'm going to pad it a little bit. So, you know, get up a calendar. If you don't use a calendar, start using one and just schedule off three to five blocks of time throughout the week where you can work on this task. And you'll probably already have some random calls, other things reoccurring, one offs. You can just schedule around it. So for example, this was like a picture of my calendar as an example, right? Starts off pretty light like at the beginning. And then it's gonna take seven hours for this task. So, okay, two hours on Monday. This is a VSL. I'm ready. I'm gonna work from 9 to 11 on Monday on the VSL, 9 to 11 Tuesday. I've got this thing here and I've got my daughter in the morning. So I'm going to work from 12 to 1:30 on Wednesday. I can't work quite as long in this VSL. And then on Thursday I'll work from nine to 10:30. So combined up two plus two plus one and a half plus one and a half, seven hours. Right. Everyone, is everyone following me on this. This is hopefully not getting too in the weeds. I Know, this is very tactical, but I really feel like if more people did this, it would completely change their lives. So I really wanted to, like, walk people through this for those who don't do it. So I have one person. Okay. Two people. Okay. Okay, Follow. Good. Perfect. Great. So really all we do now is repeat, right? So basically the say the next task takes eight hours in that same week. All right, cool. So here's number two. So I've got a gap here. I only have an hour here Wednesday or Tuesday. The C's are getting kind of crazy. I'm not going to do anything for it. Wednesday, I've got like an hour. I got two hours here. And then I might need two and a half hours on Friday. Right, okay, cool. And then usually this is the way I would distribute is we don't have a bunch of stuff that's all going to take like eight hours. It's usually a couple of the urgent, important things are only going to be a couple hours long, so. See that? So say number three is going to take an hour and a half, and number four is just going to take you like an hour, which is usually the way it is. A lot of times there's some urgent, important thing that we keep putting off, but it's really not even actually going to take that much time. It's just like we keep going off. Like we have to write a new lead, and the new lead should only take you like an hour and a half. I got to write, you know, two emails for this guy who already wrote the form and he wasn't happy with two of them. Realistically, it's only going to take you an hour, hour and a half. You just keep putting it off because, like, I got to get all this stuff going on now you don't, because you prioritize and categorize this. Right. And so here we have, like, most important task. Number three is right here. Most important task is, you know, number four is right here. So I think I have it in here. But let's look at this, right? If you really follow this accurately and you did an honest assessment of how much time these tasks would take, which is very important. You do want to be honest about how long the tasks are going to take. Like, you start every day at 9am except for Wednesday, which you could start at 10am if you wanted to. Right. On Monday, Tuesday, be done for your day around 3pm so like 3:15 here, because I had the copy started, calls at this time. You're done here at 3pm on Wednesday. You'd have to work till 4:30. Oh my God. But you started later in the day. You know, you could move this around because you have to start your day until 10, right on Thursday, be done at like 4pm so from 9 to 4 and then on Friday you can be done at 11:30 and you can get an early start for your weekend if you want it. Of course you could also some of the urgent things that weren't important, you could fill those in, fill in the gaps, things like that. You'd have time on Wednesday morning if you wanted to, like take some time. I like kind of going right into my biggest task, but so you can adjust to all this, but maybe you want to take a little time in the afternoon. Some of the urgent suddenly and by the way, when you do these things. So going back to someone mentioned Stephen Covey and the idea of like private personal victories precede public ones. Like if you actually follow this and you've gone through these like big tasks of yours at this point in your day and then this, by this point of your week, you're feeling so confident and good about yourself and you're so in control of your time and you're so not stressed that you. All the other random stuff on your list, you can like, you start knocking that out in minutes because you're just like, I'm. Your whole mindset and your whole self conception shifts because you're a person who gets stuff done right. And yeah, there's big chunks of tie, like I said, for reoccurring calls, free time, things like that. So, you know, I like the free time by the way, because it gives you a buffer to kind of dick around, respond emails, check Facebook, whatever it is, right. Go to Coin Market Cap and look at crypto. And as long as you're disciplined about your start stop times and kind of feed your add. But of course you find yourself getting distracted in those gaps in the schedule. You might want to adjust your, your time too. And then lastly, you do have plenty of buffers, so you have that whole day Friday. I mean, God forbid something happens. All right, you got to work a bit longer on Friday, but now you've got more time available, right? So hopefully that makes sense. So I wanted to share that and I know there's a question FOTUS said, how important is deciding the time a task project will take? I struggle to decide. With some projects, some relatively new photos, I would say, like I would err on the side of taking longer. I would basically, you know, like, and with experience it becomes Easier. But I would give it your best estimate when you really think through it. And by the way, the more you think through it, you're also visualizing yourself doing the project. And the more you visualize yourself doing the project and kind of thinking about the plan for the project is, the less you're going to get stuck. Because now you actually know what you're supposed to be doing with the project. But I would. I would add in cushioning. I always add in a bit of, like, padding. I assume it's gonna take longer than it does. And then I'd love. But there's that whole Parkinson's law. It'll take however long you give it. But I. I mean, also at the same time, if I know that I could be. If I know I'm done working at 11:30 on Friday, right Then it's like, I'm pretty motivated to be done by 11:30 on Friday, because if I actually did that and I made good money and now I can just go golf or spend time with my family or go get dinner or go get drunk by a pool or whatever it is, like, that's a really good motivator. And by the way, the big thing there, too, is, like, that all that I just shared, like, really helps you to avoid burnout. Because again, I think a huge thing that we see, Luke and Mario, is copywriters who are really slow, and they get burned out because they don't do that. So they sort of just. Every day is just like an endless day ahead of them. And they sort of don't have a start time. They don't have a stop time. They sort of stop when they're done. They don't know, like, the weekends, if they're work or not. They don't have it planned out. And so that's where I think the burnout happens. Because you sort of, like, don't know. It's like this endless sprawl. Feels like it never ends. But if you have it mapped out and you're like, Friday, 11:30, I'm done. I'm gonna feel good about myself. I made money. I'm gonna go enjoy my weekend. I'm gonna go. I got fun plans, and I'll be working till Monday. It's a lot easier to, like, just, like, crush your week. Because now you're working towards something. You're working towards, like, that. The. The. The other part of living, you know, I mean, I love work, but you're working the part of living your life having fun, family, friends, social relationships, whatever it is. So I'll pause there. But yeah, Luke and Mario, you guys want to do anything to add to that one? The other ones are not as long as this one. This was one of the longest ones. But it's important because I really want to share that with people because it can be so life changing.

That's a good point. And speed as a copywriter is something that you could develop over time. You can get faster, but it's really important while you don't have that speed yet to make sure that you, like, schedule your actual important task, like you said, because, like, falling behind on things when you're fast is not as big of a deal as falling behind on things when you're slow because it's way harder to catch up. And I think another point that you said that was really important was that people may not have enough time to do all the things they think they have to do, but they definitely have time to do things they actually have to do. And it's a big difference between those two things. Like, once you eliminate this stuff, like using that framework that you showed them, once you figure out when you make everything that's on your calendar actually have to earn its spot on your calendar, you're going to realize that you have more time than you thought to put into the things that are actually important versus the things that you think are important. So that's important. Like distinction to make.

Yeah. Cool. Luke and Nick has got anything you want to contribute to that? Should we continue on? You're muted right now. We can continue.

Continue along.

Okay.

Answering some of these Q and A's.

Yeah. I mean, I have questions. I put it here. Like, the top freelancers control their time. Right. I think that's really important. Like, they know how, when they're going to write, study, revise, prospect, all that, you know? Brian Spiranello is amazing at that. Brian Spinella is, like, itemized down to, like, the minute in his days. I think it's almost, like, obsessive, like, too much for me, but, like, it works great for Brian. And I think a lot of the top people that they know. Right. And so it's a really. And then it's like, okay, but like, this goes back to mindset and. And really, like, because I always use sports analogies because I'm a dude. Right. But it's like, you can use whoever usually got, like, what's her name is? It's. Who's the godmother? Like the Jenner, Like Kris Jenner. Right. That's like the Kardashian mom. Yeah, it's like, dude, I remember her talking about. I saw her talk, like at 100 million mastermind, and she talked to this room with us. And she's about how she basically has an itinerary every day of where all her kids are, what they're doing, schedule by schedule. She has her own iteration. She's basically following a schedule every day and has it all blocked out and itemized, right? So sports stars like Tom Brady or, you know, whoever, like you want to, whatever sports are you, like, they know what their days look like. They know when they're going to practice, when they're doing physical therapy, when they're training, when they're doing press and media stuff, when they're playing the game. Right? Like, and so all the top performers have, like a schedule. So if you want to be a top performer, make 15k plus per month, like, why would you not have it too? And it's like, oh, I'm not somebody who care. Like, it works for everybody. It's one of those things that's so funny. But it's like, yeah, it works for all these people. I know it works. I don't do it, right. Like, I'm at my stuff, like, meditation. Like, I'm like, I should meditate. I don't really meditate. Breath work. Every time I do a breathing, like, exercise, I like, feel so much better. Like, oh, my God, I should do breathing exercises regularly. Don't do them. So I get it. But there's certain things where, like, this is just so powerful. I really would urge people to try it.

It's funny, a lot of people don't do it because they think it takes time to do it, like to set that stuff up. But that stuff takes minutes to set up and it ends up saving you, like countless hours. So, like, it's actually, it might take time, but it's giving you like 10x or 20x of that time back.

It's like the single. The single biggest difference to where, like, I'm working a lot right now because we're launching these new programs and I'm just in build mode and I've got more time because of like Laura and I separating to where I've got half the time to, like, I don't have my daughter and I'm, you know, whatever. I'm just in that mode right now. But like some most money I made ever in my life was like 2021 and I was like, probably working like, like two hours a day. You know what I mean? And part of it was because of like investments and other things I had set up and built. But like, also part of it was because I was just so freaking effective. And even the fact that I had investments and things I was able to do because of all the money I made doing that in 2020, where I started doing this, and I just became so much more in control of my time. So. All right, number, number three is that you're missing a measuring stick, so to speak. And this really just comes back primarily to like feedback and seeing how you will tell you where you are. Not, not just like random client, but like, you know, peers, other copywriters, people of that nature. There's a reason that I've, I've stressed feedback for such a long time. But if you're not getting feedback or other eyes on your copy, then you don't know how good you are or you are and you don't really know how to improve. And this is such an important thing. Right? Again, so many people feel like going back to the phases. Like if a lone wolf, even a journeyman, the rookie, almost every phase. Like one common issue is you really don't know how good you are. But if you don't know how good you are, then you know, if you, if you find out you're better than you think you are, you can immediately start charging more money. Right. Also, if you're not as good as you think you are, you can, and you're getting feedback, you can immediately, and it's good feedback, you can immediately see how to improve. So you get as good as you thought you were and then start charging more money. It's one of the most important things. So you know, like I put here. Yeah. If you don't know how good you are, it's hard to charge high rates. If you don't get better, it's hard to charge high rates too. And it also makes you move slowly because you're always second guessing yourself. Even when you write a piece of copy, you're revising it, you're like second guess, was this actually good? Is this, Am I on the mark? Am I off the mark? It's like if you have like experienced people just look at this stuff and tell you, yeah, you're good. No, you're off the mark. That's a lot better than spending like an hour or two agonizing the second guessing yourself and wondering about if you're on the marker off the mark. Right. And this is an example. I literally did it today prior to this call. This is from today, 9:39 I finished that VSL for a hair growth like device for this big nine figure company. I want to get the Google Doc link off of that. People go to change the changes, a different link. So I'll be able to go, you know, swipe my copy on this one because we literally just finished it. But I'm like, hey, you know, here's the vsl. Just got to finish proofreading, adding a few more citations. It's short and my shirt is like 5,500 words or so right now. I feel like it's solid. Would love your guys feedback when you have a sec in case I miss anything or you think it sucks. Jumping on, prepping for the call now which is called that we're on together. Mario checking it out. Don't know if you addressed this yet, but see the pick of the bald Hungarian scientist. Definitely stop me for a second. They need to address that head on maybe as to why he was interested in this because there's a bald Hungarian scientist in this, involved in the story of this hair thing. And I'm like, oh, that's a good call. I could just remove that. The picture is not that important, right? So I just want to share that with you guys that like I'm like considered one of the best copywriters on the planet, right? And like I'm like I got my boys here. I'm like, hey, is this like, is this good? Is it wrong? Mary actually made another comment after that. Even the mechanism for this, I was like, I'm kind of feeling stuck. Here's what I'm thinking. And like so having people like, like to look at that stuff for you and help you like Mary, you probably saved me from. You were probably the difference between me finishing that BSL this week like today on Wednesday and maybe not even being close to done with it because I was overthinking the mechanism stuff so much on it. And then Mary was like, you're being dumb. Like you don't have to do any of that stuff you're talking about. Just like here's what you can focus on. You already have that part. And I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. Wow, that's so much easier. And then I could write it. I wrote it really fast because I got, I got out of the weeds. It stopped me. People go back to like I researched for too long. How do I know when my mechanism is good? How do I stop looking? How do I like I'm, I'm over researching and it's like the power of feedback is just so insane, right? Because it, like, then instead of me spending another 10 hours in the weeds and then being even more confused and frustrated and having, like, a negative energy towards the project, Mary is like, yeah, you're good. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm good. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna finish this pretty fast now. This is great. Thanks.

Even the best copywriters in the world are still not, like, immune to having blind spots. Obviously you could figure that out if you were looking at someone else's copy. Like, if you had. If you cloned yourself and had another Stefan looking at your copy, obviously you could tell the one who wrote the letter, like, oh, yeah, you don't need any of that stuff. But when you're actually writing it, like, you can't really see, like, the big picture and stuff. You're so immersed into things. That's why feedback is so important. Like, getting feedback from people that like. Or even if you're good, like, even if the person that's giving you feedback is barely better than you, just the fact of having an extra set of eyes who isn't so, like, so close to the project is super invaluable. And I've always had, like, that's. I always say that's why I got good. I've had feedback right away. I wrote one sales letter in my life off some random guy off clickbank. Like, I started my first client ever. I started looking through people's clickbank letters on, like, the fifth, sixth page. Started cold emailing people to see, like, oh, I could write your sales letter better. I wrote one. Use that as a sample. The next letter I wrote was to Vin Montello, who's my first mentor. He was dominating ClickBank back in the space. I sent him a sample. He's like, oh, this is pretty good. Come meet me in New York. My whole team is going to be out there. From then on. I started working with him and getting feedback on my letter, like, every letter I wrote. And I got so much better in a matter of months to where I probably would have been stuck for years.

Yeah, that's such a good point. Just a quick going back to 2014 when I made 500k. I had that. What changed is right one of Try and Saba, who's in the survival space, his partner hired me. That was right for him and Try On. They were giving me, like, a bunch of feedback, right? And they were. And it was brutal to. What should have said? Like, brutal feedback sometimes, like, tearing my. My stuff Apart was frustrating. But then I was like, well, I can be. Have an ego, or I can just get better. Listen to them. Kept doing iterations, then try as partner, went to, like, the Romanians. Different group of Romanians. And basically, you know, I was writing a ton of those BSLs every two and a half days. But they're giving me feedback, you know, like, yes, no, love it. Like, really working with me. And then. And I started to get mastery to where they were. The feedback was reduced. But that's actually a huge element to why I think I got so good in that it was like, volume, right? I was writing a ton, so practice and not theory. And I was getting, like, feedback constantly. And it's like, I don't really put that together until right now, but that's a huge part. It wasn't just the volume. It was also the feedback I got from, you know, good people who knew what they were doing, who had scaled things to, at the time, eight figures. And the new company went to over 100 million the first year. So it's really. Yeah, that's interesting. You had the same experience. Look, you want to add anything?

Yeah, I mean, I. I have always said, like, to anyone who's ever asked me, I've always said, you need to get feedback and get other eyes on your copy from people who know what they're doing. Probably it's better to have people who know what they're looking at. I almost don't count the first eight months because, like, one of the big things that I know people that happens. This is especially true for the Lone Wolf, is that you feel like you're writing in a vacuum because you're like, I'm not. Typically, you're writing for, like, you're not getting data back from the clients you're writing because either they don't test the stuff or they don't tell you how it does, or they just ghost you, or they don't even know what they're doing. So you're not getting actual feedback from the market. Their feedback is very sparse. Like, I remember the feedback that I got from people who didn't really understand copy the first eight months was, this is good. This is good. This is good. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm good or not, because I don't know if they know what they're talking about. And it.

It.

When you're first starting out, like, sometimes it makes it feel like it's almost not real. You're like, am I actually adding value? Is anything I'm doing actually real like I'm just typing words in a Google Doc and I have no idea what's happening if things are being sent. And it, it's a really bad negative feeling because you feel extremely isolated. You don't have that. So getting just one little bit bit of feedback is like a breath of fresh air. And I remember the first feedback I really had on my stuff. Like I just, my stuff was horrific, right? It got torn apart and I was like, I learned more in like 45 seconds of just seeing feedback than I probably did in eight months. And that sounds like an exaggeration, but it's, it's true. And then my skill went up from month. Like here's actually the truth. If I didn't have feedback before I started hanging around Stefan and Stefan saw my copy, I would not be in the situation I am now. Because my copy prior to feedback compared to my copy just a couple months after, I was getting consistent feedback was like night and day difference. And that's what allowed Stephan to look at and be like, oh, this is actually pretty good. Let me give him some more. I think about that a lot. It really was the difference. So it's key and the feedback. We'll talk about Genesis, I'm sure, but the feedback stuff that we have going on in Genesis, like, it's going to be awesome. That's what, that's what I'll say we, we'll talk about the details of it. But it's going to be very, very incredible and very, very targeted. So yeah, I'm sure we'll get to that. But I'm excited about it, so I'm just jumping the gun.

No, it's okay. I mean it's. In a way it's a good place to talk about it, but it's. Yeah, the feedback is like. And Luke's taking the, the helm on it like and kind of. We have like a name for it. It's called the Oracle system. And it's just a way for us to give you. We're not going to go into all of how it works because honestly it's like proprietary but it's not like it's a methodology that we can use to give like very effective feedback. Very like high level feedback in a way that's time effective for us so that we can. I don't want to get out. We'll talk about later. But it's a very, it's very exciting. I don't know. No one's ever done anything like it before. I think the feedback's going to be insanely good for people, but it's a really cool way we've developed it. All right. The file two are pretty fast. So good news number four is that, you know, I think a mistake is not putting yourself out there enough and celebrating, you know, wins. Which comes back to maybe imposter syndrome and introvert system or syndrome. There's another syndrome we can talk about as I'm playing with syndromes these days, and again, early on, you might not have ones. But even just contributing to conversations, like asking questions, being honest, being curious, this is something so important where it's like, I was thinking about this, like, Facebook groups or in a zoom call, people just, like, sort of ask questions. Or even if a big business owner be like, hey, you know, what about, have you tried this? Like, would this work? Like, because again, I made a whole reel about this yesterday. If you don't have that level of experience, if you're a rookie or a student or whatever, you don't have to come and be like, I'm an expert. Do this, like, you know, like a slick little wink and like, whatever. It's like, you don't. You don't know. But just like, being there, having conversations, being like, known and seen like this countless times, we've just seen that go so well for people, right? Like, and then I put here, I think it's really a good phrase, familiarity leads to opportunity. Meaning, like, the more familiar prospective clients and other people are even other copywriters who are going to end up getting to a place where they want to subcontract work. Like, familiarity, knowing your name, knowing who you are, leads to opportunity, right? I think many people that you know today who are like, you know, gurus or maybe like, well known in the copywriting community, they're well known because they should have participated, shared, and worked hard earlier on in their journey. And then others started talking about them too. They were, you know, because they were well known, people were familiar with them, they got more opportunities. Like, oh, yeah, I've seen your name a bunch of places, I'll hire you. But there's a familiarity bias, right? So, like, if Luke, Mario and I all go apply to, like, the same, you know, gig, and we're not, we're not like the reputations we have today. But, like, we're like, you know, we're like, hey, in fact, we're. But I do have a bit of reputation. Like, people have talked about me. I'm. I'm active in a group. A few people have mentioned My name is that they've worked with me or something. And Mario and Luke don't have that. I guarantee you. My copy samples could be the weakest, like, significantly weaker than theirs. And I'll be the one who gets hired because the person like, oh, yeah, yeah, I've seen you around. I've heard people talking about you. Of course, there's, like, a point to this. If it was complete, like, gibberish garbage, that wouldn't happen. But, like, if they. If it was like their copy was here and my copy was here, but they were familiar with my name, I get hired like nine out of 10 times, right? That's like. So it's so important to think about that. You know, I was thinking about some of the people from the copy starter ecosystem, but, like, you know, Grant Wilson, when he went first CA event, he bought a ticket too. He was active in the chat, all that. We got him a job with Mike Geary, Ned Scow. Then he also got a job with Scott Phillips, and he basically started running Scott Phillips's business. But really it started because Grant was just so active in the chat. He was like a. Just like an excited kid, right? Michael Roshin was active on calls, things like that. Ariba Ahmed Girling Singh. I used to sell my road to Billion. I was like, girlen, right? And Rodrigo's on this call. Rodrigo motto. Like, somebody who I, like, feel like is like, basically just like, Like, I, I, you know, I know I'll do things with Rodrigo in the future because, like, he was at one of our events, he's on Instagram, he replies to my stuff. So I'm like. I look at Rodrigo as, like, a friend. Like, Rodrigo could reach out to me in the middle of the night, and I would, like, stop what I'm doing to help him. You know, We've only met in person, like, one time. Andrew Trackman, you're on, like, that list. Like, Jazz. Courtney's on that list too, right? Tamara, you're becoming on that list because you're active. You're showing up and stuff. You messaged me, like, that's the thing. Like, all these people. Bashir, you're on that list. You email me. You do stuff, right? There's always people because they're the people who are showing up and who are active. So, again, familiarity, we get opportunity. Doesn't mean it happens overnight, but, like, it does. It does happen. I mean, Nick Verge was on that list at one point. He's this kid, and then now, like, Nick's, you know, a great friend and Someone that we like do all kinds of cool stuff with. And then, you know, as you get those wins, celebrate them too, right? Do the humble brag. Like, some of you may have seen my Facebook post where it was like, yeah, I've got wins to share. Like, wow. You know, and I basically shared this on Facebook and you can see you got my nice likes. 125 comments. Sharing, sharing, all, all that. And then you can do it in ways where you're humble, where you're like, like I put a line in this post where I'm like, you know, now I know some people might not like it. I don't feel like I'm bragging, but, you know, it's Facebook and you guys are my Facebook friends and your friends are supposed to celebrate your wins, right? So, you know, I'd hope that you guys are gonna do that and not, you know, like, not think it's weird that I'm sharing. If you sort of say something like that disarms everybody because then they're like, oh, I don't be an. Yeah, and they celebrate your win. Instead of being like, coming from a place of like, judgment or like, why are they talking about themselves? You know, I have others do it too. Like Alan Saltnick, right. Just gave Andrew Tennant this big shout out. Andrew Got a 50k gig. Wasn't specifically from Alan's group, but it's Alan, so of course he's gonna do what he's gonna do. But I think Andrew got like an email gig from the nothing called back jobs board and then turned into a 50k thing. But the point is Alan posting that for Andrew, who's by the way, one of the coaches in Genesis. Like, you know, how much credit does that immediately? How much does that elevate Andrew in your eyes? Right? The Andrew got a 50k gig and he's not the one saying it. Alan Saltnick is the one saying and congratulating him. So, like, immediately Andrew Tennant, like, elevation, right? That's a really big and important thing. So, yeah, it's celebrating your wins and then like being, you know, sharing them by yourself, showing up and being active and then also like letting other people be your hype man too. Like, Justin did it for me back in the day as well. I've done it for Luke and for Mario. Right? And then Luke. I mean, I used to call Luke my protege, but now I call him like my business partner. But for a while, it was good for Luke to be my protege. Now I say my former protege is turned business partner. Sometimes too. But there's like an evolution that happens. But, you know, there's a lineage of hype, of hype. People have a hype man or a hype woman as much as you can. It's a huge game changer because no matter how much you say stuff and how great you are, which you should still do, you should share your wins, but when other people do it for you, that's like a huge needle mover. And then the very last one. And I do want to talk about Genesis before we go on for 5 million hours on this. It's really. I put not asking the right questions, but really all I'm saying is like. Like just following up, like, asking for more, you know, like, here's one I just. We just did for. I just did for a client. I know it's tiny, so I'll zoom in a lot for this one, right? This is from four days ago. Yo. Hey, Blank team. Here's a new VSL script. Whoopsie. You want to show that document too? This was, you know, entirely Mario, because Mario wrote this one here. I don't have to do squat for it. And I think it, you know, he hit out of the park. I hope you feel the same way. Also, right now, I'm discreetly fishing around for one more personal VSL client. If you have any projects coming up or want to get something going prior to the launch of the new year, let me know. I'm in a VSO flow state right now, so could turn something around in under four weeks. And also I'm gonna. I want to generate some revenue state since we've been going through a transition period and copy starter for the last few months, because they know about copy accelerator. Either way, excited to hear your feedback on the new script. Right. So that's a good. From four days ago. I'm still doing it. I basically share that. To be like, I'm not. I'm not ashamed to. To do that. Right? And. And that's like the best time to do it is like to ask when you just give them copy and they're happy with the copy, that's the best time to be like, all right, I'm ready for another one. What do you got? It's such a simple thing, but, like, you know, that's the way too to like. Because sometimes, like, the lack of consistency comes in because, you know, you sort of give them something and then say bye. Like, I just go, I'm shameless about. I've showed up twice in the last two days. Those people reply Back ask, like I'm talking them might. Might hire me and then other one will definitely hire me in the near future too. So it's extra 100k I'm going to get from basically just asking for it.

And you can't rely on other people, like to follow up with you like you might. In a perfect world, you'll write something for somebody, it'll crush. They'll come back and tell you all the time. That's not what happens. Just because you don't hear back from somebody doesn't mean that you're not. They're not like happy with what you've done. I can give you a great example of this too, because I remember early on when I wrote something for V Shred. Then I got busy, they got busy. So it's been like, it was like two months or so before I started talking to them again. And then I emailed Matt to find out how that thing was doing. I was like, oh, I never heard back on that because actually it's doing really well. We have another project for you if you want. So then just from sending that email, like, I probably. If I never sent that email, who knows what would have happened, right? But since then, they literally paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars and I've made them a lot of money just from like checking in and seeing how things work and seeing if there are other opportunities. Like, obviously they're not, they're not going to think, they're not going to think of me poorly for doing that. Obviously they're glad I did that because they had more work they needed somebody they can trust to do. And I'm glad I followed up because it went through hundreds of thousands of dollars for me. So sometimes you just have to not just assume that you're going to be on people's top of mind and you have to make sure that you are top of mind because there's a good chance that they really do need your help.

Yeah, I would, I would be wondering everyone else ever had that experience put in the chat if you had of like where you fall with a client and the client's like, oh, yeah, it's going great. And you're like, oh, shit. Like, you didn't, you didn't tell me. You didn't reach out, like, to say, hey, this is going great, you know, like, has anyone else ever had that happen before? If not, no big deal, but I've definitely had it happen too. Thanks, Sam. Love you, brother. Good to see you. So he's going to host the panelists okay, so not yet. Your time will come for us. And speaking of your time coming, that's where we do want to take a few minutes to talk about Genesis as promised. Right. So Genesis is our mentorship program that we have created. It is a monthly program and I'll put the sales letter link in the chat, but you get weekly training on skill set. You get weekly training on getting clients like live trainings. You get weekly feedback, which we know is extremely important. As we talked about, we didn't talk about feedback in here to set it up for Genesis. It's like feedback is how you get better. Right. We'll help track your progress with the feedback kind of. We talked about how tracking stuff is important. Like we will track it with you. In Genesis, we have monthly contests where the top five people will get shout outs and recognition from us. Plus the first contest we're doing, the top five people will all get $500 email creative gigs. Plus number one gets automatically upgraded to Capicsarter Pro for a month. But these contests are all about recognition, getting your name out there, having us out there being your hype man, shouting out your praises or, you know, and all that. You also get with Genesis a customized roadmap depending on which phase you're in, where we'll basically do onboarding calls. This program starts on Monday and we're going to do like onboarding calls for basically have you identify which phase you're in. We'll have like a, like an intake thing for that. And then we'll do different onboarding calls for each phase. And then we'll basically give you a customized roadmap depending on where you are today, for where you need to, you know, where you can be in 90 days from now and then where you can be in six months from now and then 12 months from now. And like the game plan to follow. And so you'll have a roadmap to follow because that's what so many people are missing too. They're missing a roadmap, they're missing guidance, all that kind of thing. You also get access to our massive library of like archive from Copy Accelerator, three plus years of calls. And basically every, like every training that we did in Copy started up until the end of October will be in there, including call recordings. I see Nick yawning on camera. You, Nick? I'm just kidding, Nick. I just wanted to mess with you. But really, like, to be honest with you guys, I want Luke and Mary to talk. You've heard me talk about a lot. Some of you like this. To me, their whole goal is truly to build the last program you would ever need as far as copywriting goes. And really to build the best program that's ever been built too. There's a lot of people coming for the bag now. There's a lot of people who are like, doing copywriting, mentorship programs and trainees. And it's like most of them, by the way, like, I train them, so it's kind of funny, but it's cool. Good for them. If you want to do that too, after you go through this, God bless you. But, like, the point is, like, this is literally the end all, be all. It's everything you need. It's like what we would like if we could build the perfect program to train somebody, no matter which phase they're in, to get them to where they're not, they're leveling up quickly with income. Mindset, skill set. Really, it's like this set, skill set, mindset. We almost talked about that way, right? Level you up as fast as possible and as effectively as possible. Like, justice is what it is. And it's an ongoing organic thing, too, that we'll keep making better. So I'm gonna put a link to the sales letter. The one thing the sales order doesn't talk about is this archetype or the phases and the roadmaps, because we sort of had that realization recently and realized how important that was to work that in. Because we sit around talking about this stuff together because we obsess over it. But I want you to join if you're on this call and it's a good fit for you, and it probably is for most of you, it's 497amonth. But we can get you very. By the way, it's basically the replacement copy seller light, which is 1650amonth. So like more than $1,000 a month less than that. Trying to get a price point where it might hurt a little bit for some people, but it should hurt a little bit because I want you to be committed to it. Doesn't hurt. I thought about making it less. Right. But if it doesn't hurt you a little bit, then you're not going to commit to it. You're not going to care enough, you're not going to get the results you want. We need it to hurt a little bit. But at 497, it's also saying that most people can take that leap and make that leap. And when you do, you've got the three of us here obsessing over your Success plus, not just us, actually, but a bunch of other A listers. We're bringing in incredible, like, you know, coaches who are gonna be doing the feedback, leading trainings, all that kind of stuff too. It's just monthly. You're not locked in for a year. You can cancel anytime, more or less, right? You come in for a month and that's it, no problem. You know, copy started. We did a year commitment, but I didn't want to do it with this because my goal is to use get such unreal progress and skill development and probably, you know, income development. Or you have a path that so quickly and you see everything and it's like you go from living life in, you know, high speed to, like slow motion, like the Matrix, right? You can see how the inner workings of how all this works and you're able to actually, you know, you want to keep going. You want to keep going with us, Mary and Luke. I'll put the link to it in here, but you guys want to chat about it for a second?

Yeah. I mean, the only reason I got involved with this, like, I was perfectly happy being behind the scenes just writing copy. I love the. The life that I was living there. Then when I saw you guys had the idea for this, something that was really going to change people's lives, I was like, all right, this is something that I wish I had 10 years ago because I would have been probably retired by now and not be writing copy anymore, right? Like, the fact that the amount of time that I spent stuck in all those different phases was probably can. I could have cut that down 90% of the time if I had a program like this that was going to give me all the things I needed to get through those phases quickly. And that's the thing about Genesis. Like, it doesn't matter what phase you're in right now. We don't care if you're starting from phase one or phase five. What we do care about is that you don't spend any extra time in each phase than you have to. And the plan is to give you everything you need to move from one phase to the next to the next until you're at a point where you're happy and you're not needing for anything in your life. Then when you get the 15, $20,000 a month, then it's fine for you to decide if being a copywriter is what you want or if you want to move on to other things, but at least you'll be making that decision from a place of comfort and, like, satisfaction. In your life, you're not jumping from thing to thing because you, like, still looking for the answer. You'll know that no matter what happens in your life, you could always go back to making 15, 20, $25,000 as a copywriter. And then no matter what happens, like, you're pretty good. So I think that's an important security blanket to give people, and it's going to take work to get there. But anybody who wants to put the work in to actually get good at this, Genesis is probably the best thing that I've seen to get you there. Because we know what it takes to get there. It's not like it's not a coincidence. It's the fact that we know. We've been through each one of those phases. We know what it takes to move you from one phase to another. And the stuff is in the stuff that's in the program only because it actually helps. That's why we put it in there.

Yeah, 100%. And look, I want you to speak to the feedback in a second. I know Sean asked a question, but it really is such a good skill to have. I mean, you saw that email I mentioned to where I talked about the client was like, hey, if you want to hire me for another vsl, even with me, because we had Copy Starter lite, which was 1650amonth with a year commitment, and then I'm basically like, hey, I'm going to get rid of this and do Genesis at 4.97amonth. We're revamping Copy Starter Pro. Basically, there's really big changes happening. So even personally, I was getting a nice chunk of cash flow from Copy Accelerator and this higher ticket stuff, and I'm like, all right, I want to build something different. So my cash flow went down. So even for me to be like, hey, like, random people, like, everyone want to hire me for BSL and then have like, I have a call at what, 2, 2pm today with somebody who was like, oh, it. I just paid 50k for BSL. I'm like, great, right? All right, cool. There's 50k. The people that followed up with, that's 50k. The other person, that's another 50k. Now, I'm not saying I'm going to make 50k right away. That's what I have in charge, or sometimes more. But, like, the fact that knowing, like, if I'm like, even for me, like, cash flow, I just love having the skill. It's like, thank God. Right? Thank God. Having that skill so that you never have to stress if you ever do get like a whole, like having copyright is like a skill to fall back on, to make 15, 25,000, whatever it is a month is a really nice, It's a really nice fallback. It's a really nice fallback. I'll never be homeless. And now I will never be homeless. I'll never not live in a nice home. You know, that's a nice thing to have. But with that being said. Yeah, Luke, I'd love for you to speak on feedback. Sean kind of asked how much your personal copy critique will you receive each month? And if you've got questions about Genesis or on the call, so feel free to put them in the chat too. But Luke, go ahead.

Yeah, so for the feedback system. So to answer your question, Sean, you'll be able to get, it's pretty standard. You'll be able to get one piece of, you get feedback each week. One piece of feedback each week. And we may eventually roll out something where you can, you can get more of that. I think we'll probably get there. But for now it's one piece of feedback per week, which is pretty typical. Any sort of coaching program that you do, that's the feedback that you're going to get. And realistically, the whole point of the feedback system is even when you do hire like a personal coach or somebody like that, even when you do some sort of coaching program, a lot of the feedback that you get is sort of like it's ad hoc. It's sort of like, here's feedback here, here's feedback here. You don't have a structured system to improve your skills. And this is what we've been mapping out. What's so cool about this system and why, like there's really isn't anything else like it is. It's taken all the experience of myself, Mario and Stefan, all of our feedback experience. So there's a lot of copywriters who have experience writing copy. Probably combined we have more experience than I would say almost anybody. But there's a lot of people who have experience writing copy. But then it's another skill to have also experience giving feedback. And if you were to look inside, peek inside the copy accelerator members area, you would see how much feedback we're giving every single day. And Stefan's been doing this for years. I've done it with eight week mentorship. So we've really like not only mastered copy itself, but also the art of giving feedback. And what we've been able to do is take that same skill set, put it into A system or a structure so that we're able to deliver that same level of feedback to you guys pretty much at scale and at a. The price point at like 500. There's just literally no place you can find copy feedback like that.

Right.

Of any sort of quality. And so the fact that you're able to get that and it really does mimic and follow the, the path of like very similar to the way that we would give you feedback is incredible. And there's so many other things that, that we're going to roll out as things go on. Like the system. We just did a training with the coaches. The coaches are amazing. The system is awesome where it is, but as things continue to develop, it's only going to continue to get better and better and better and better. So that's one thing. The other thing that is like to me is so amazing with Genesis program is the ability to get that recognition quickly. Actually one, you're getting access to the CA library that like, of like past training calls. Like someone was asking me, is this a course? I'm like, yeah, like this is. It's rnbc like pretty much on steroids, plus several other layers deep of almost every type of cop you can imagine. Literally you could just get access to this library, watch all those videos and you'll have every, literally every single resource. Forget everything else. You'll have every resource that you need to, to be an amazing copywriter, right? That's without the feedback, that's without the live training calls, that's without the freelancing calls, that's without any of that. So that alone is incredible. The other thing though is the recognition. I don't know if for anyone here, if you know my story, but my story was I. I was not making money as a copywriter. I was running low on my funds, my juices, and I was like, I know I need to attend the copy Accelerator event. So I attended the live event and I didn't have any intention of joining the program, but I was like. Because I attended it and I was like, the one thing that made me really want to join was the fact that they were going to have these contests right within the, within the program where they hired business owners to write a certain number of, you know, you write a sales letter or something like that. And that's really what pushed me over the edge. I was like, if I can just get one of those, like, I know I can bridge the gap. If I can win that, that job, then I'll be able to like, hopefully get a new job, get a new job, whatever. So I applied for three of the jobs, I got two. And then I went super heavy into feedback, made sure I had a lot of feedback, put a lot of effort into it, and then I ended up winning those two contests. And it's those two contests that actually put me on the map or on the radar for Stefan. And that changed everything for me. So literally the fact that every single month you have a shot on goal, you have every single resource that you need to study on your own, plus you have every single resource you need to get feedback on, your copy personalized towards you, and you get a shot on goal to get a recognition and move into basically getting like, you know, full 5, 10, 15 minute loom videos for myself, Mario or Stefan. That to me is like, isn't. It's just insane. It's like literally here are the steps that you need to take. You don't have to figure it out for yourself. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. It's the shortest path to whatever sort of success you want. And then once you get to a certain income level, once you're able to, you know, maybe make a decision to be in the right other masterminds, be around the right people, the right networking community, get even higher level feedback that's, that's more personalized, like you get in pro from there. It's like everything opens up, all the possibilities open up. You can continue to be a copywriter, you can continue to, you know, venture out into other things, but this is such a clear path towards mastery when it comes to copy that it genuinely gets me very, very excited and that, that everything I've talked about doesn't even layer in the fact or account for the fact that we're going to layer in giving you personalized roadmaps depending on where you're at. So we have these archetypes or we have these positions that people identify with, the lone wolf, the student. And we're going to develop resources that give you an even more specific path from where you're at right now, right? Not only like technically what you need to do, but what you need to do to change your mindset. Because like we talked about, there's imposter syndrome, there's the ability to not want to like, charge more, there's sometimes discipline things and other sorts of habits. So we're taking all of that into account and creating those exact roadmaps that you need to go from wherever you're at right now, whatever you're personally struggling with, to Pretty much the highest reaches. You can go with copyright. So, yeah, that's.

That's my rent now. It's good. Let's see here. And I, like Forest had asked, I think the way before I get to your source, John asked if the 30th is cut off. We are doing that as a cutoff for now, the 30th, Forest said if we submit a sales letter for feedback, will we get feedback on the entire letter or just an overall take? Feedback on the first couple paragraphs and kind of a brush over of the rest. You want to speak to that, Luke? Yeah.

So the way we're. We're still calibrating that system right now. The way it's going to work is we're going to set it up so that we focus on the biggest things first. So, for example, Mario and Stephanie, you guys can attest to this. When I look at a vsl, to me, if the lead is not dialed in, whatever comes after the lead is not, does not matter. It's not important. Right? If the lead is not solid, I don't care what you say after, no one's going to get through that first part of the copy. The other thing that's important is the mechanism. If your mechanism is not new, interesting and simple, then everything else that you say around it isn't actually going. Isn't actually going to matter. Okay. And then, then the next biggest needle mover is probably the headline. If there is a headline. Right. Getting people into the copy and into the lead. Those are the three biggest points. So the way we have it structured is you're welcome to submit longer form copy. If you submit that longer form copy, the coaches, the way they're being trained is to focus on is your lead dialed in? If not, then we're just going to focus on getting your lead dialed in. And that's your work for the week, is your mech. Then we're going to go to. All right, maybe your lead is perfect. How's your mechanism. Is your mechanism dialed in? If it's not dialed in, we're going to focus on that. How's your headline if those things are covered? So basically, you know, if they're. If your lead needs to be dialed in, that's where we'll put all our attention. If your mechanism needs to be dialed in, that's where we'll put the attention. And then if your headline needs to be dialed in, that's where we'll put the attention. If all those things are at a good level or passable level, we'll continue to give you feedback all the way through the story, structure wise, making sure the emotion is there, making sure your clothes are solid, making sure you're adding in the elements from rnbc. So will you get point by point one an hour critique of every single line in the letter?

No.

But you know, even when Stefan and Mario and I self give feedback to the people in CA Pro, we don't do that either unless the lead and the mechanism and some of these bigger pieces of copy are more dialed in. And the goal is not only to give you, give you the, give you feedback like fix this, fix this, fix this but to give you like targeted tailored resources to fix those areas. Like you know, for instance some people might struggle with having a rhythm and a punchiness to their copy. Right. It's a very micro sort of thing. Not only will you get feedback on hey, you need to fix this element but you'll have a, another, you'll have additional resources to help you practice that skill and to get deeper explanations on that. So hopefully that answers your question for like overall script.

Yeah, that's good. I think that's a very good in depth answer. I mean seriously, this feedback system is really, really special and you know, a few other things when you. So basically like you know I'd like for people to join today of course and like right now but you know then basically the program starts on Monday. You're gonna get billed again until the end of November and but right away you're gonna get the foundational 15 which is something we had in for copy accelerator members. We still have it but basically it walks you through RNBC emails like headlines, subject lines, ad creatives, there's module and getting clients, all this kind of stuff and it's like, could be like a thousand dollar course on its own but you get that instant access. I mean this is like in depth trainings, like videos we did like where I taught high level people about ARM CFAS nations is in there too and basically like you know in depth trainings we did on this stuff and then like you're getting you know, you get instant access to that instant access to the Facebook group which is already super active with people and yeah and then, but we're kind of off enrolling on Monday or Sunday night. So to me I like might as well just do it now and get this extra bonus you hit the ground running come Monday when we launch the, the other thing.

Well yeah, and, and when you join you're going to get you know, probably even more attention in this this first cohort, as we start to roll everything out. The other thing is, is one of the things that I know because I know I have so many. You know how many of my friends I've tried to get into copywriting and told them what to do? Like, literally all the advice that I've given to my close personal friends and family is exactly what's inside of Genesis. One of the things that I realized people struggle with is like, maybe you don't even have a client, you're in the learning phase, or you're in the. The first phase and you don't have a client. Our goal is to get you clients, like, right away, pretty much. But even for those, let's say, like, you want to master different areas of copy, but you don't have that right. So what's the advice everyone gives you? Everyone tells you, oh, go to Clickbank or go here and write a sample email or do something like that. I don't know about you, but, like, for me, writing in this vacuum of just like making something up and like, writing it, that's never been interesting or helpful to me. I couldn't get my mind around that. So one thing that we're going to have in addition to feedback is an ability for, like, let's say you don't have an email client. You'll have email prompts in there, and the coaches will be trained to give you feedback on that. So you can continue to practice all types of copy leads, fascinations, emails, YouTube ads, Facebook ads, and you can get a taste of all these different types of copy without really necessarily having to have a client. Obviously, if you want to submit your client work, it's. The system is designed to help you handle that, but it's also designed before you even have those clients. Or if you just want to try a different type of type of copy so that you feel well rounded, you have the ability to do that as well. And there's another question too, I think got missed, was, I think, is it Piet? Piet Marie? I think that's right. And it says, how does the Genesis process approach help people overcome mind blocks and mind mess? Is it just part of the process? And so we're also developing some, like, you know, there's going to be some pretty robust stuff in there. But as part of these roadmaps that we're putting together based on where you're at or what sort of archetype you are, we already know what mindset blocks and what.

Yeah.

What mindset blocks hold people back and specific ways to address those both in terms of like actual work with your mind but also with the actions that you need to take to help, you know, create new reality. So all that stuff is being taken into an account?

Yeah, absolutely. So another question on the calls and for people watch the replay and aren't looking at the chat. So the main skill set calls are Mondays at 10 Pacific. Everything's recorded. Of course we have our freelance training calls, our Thursdays at 10 Pacific for the feedback you get. That's basically a. You have to get a call for it. You submit basically each person has a Google Drive, you've got a tracker, you fill out a form, you submit copy relative relevant details. The coach goes through reviews. It kind of goes through and has all the elements to be looking at. Does like the loom video for you, has initial resources that they give to you like follow ups, the next steps, all that. So which by the way is how we do it in Copy Starter Pro. We shoot Bloom videos and things. That's by far the most efficient way and frankly better see David, he said bye. So yeah, one I think we are doing that we probably should have mentioned like you know, when there's double people on the call is we are doing where anyone who does grab Genesis today enjoys today we're going to do a kickoff call tomorrow. Not a kickoff call but like a, like a basically a, a roadmap call. Like it's kind of different than the, the roadmaps we're gonna develop but it's basically get you wins as fast as possible. Kind of like talk like, like personal consulting type of call. Tomorrow we're doing that at 11am Pacific. So really it's like for and frankly it's gonna be awesome. You're right. Nobody on this webinar that we're doing a call webinar has bought. Like currently we, we've had, I think we've had like 10 people join between yesterday and today. So it's going well. But like if you, you want to be have that time with Luke, Mary and I tomorrow, then you need to get in before, before end of day tomorrow or you know before it starts tomorrow at 11am and if you do that we're gonna do a call where we can go through like your personal stuff, help you figure out where you are, where you need to go and really just get you some one on one attention. Because it's probably gonna be like I don't know, not a lot of people on that call frankly. In a good way. Right. Because like we can really work with you. So that's basically gotta be in by, you know, end of tonight, tomorrow morning at the latest for that, for those who watch the replay. And we'll send out an invite for that. Mary, anything else? Anything else in the Q and A here? Steven will figure that out. I know because I said the one issue of that. Those calls is everyone who was already bossic. Why don't I get to be in that call? We already did the one kickoff call before. We'll figure it out. Stephen. For people who already bought. But yeah. Any other questions people have about Genesis before we. Before we wrap this up here? You're welcome. John. John said thanks for this. I know these things always go longer than I think they're going to. I don't mind at all. I love it. But like I'm always like, oh, be like an hour and then it's like not an hour. Can I start with monthly and then convert to full into a full year by paying the remaining. Yeah, that's fine, Shubham. Like it's like, you know, if you want to do the tax break or whatever it is. So yeah, start off monthly and then you can. We have, you know, good customer support. So if you wanted to like, like, obviously if you go for like 11 months and you're like, oh, I'm gonna pay for the 12th month so it's paid in full. I want the discount because there's a thousand dollar discount to be paid in full. Right. But, but yeah, if you did like a month or two and wanted to switch, just piv our team about. We're pretty flexible. Our goal is we want you to. Thanks Greg. Greg said I'm in. Awesome. Greg, we're happy to have you. And yeah, again our goal is we want people to, to be in the program for the long run and, and like we want to get you wins. I mean we want you to have like an ROI as fast as possible.

Like a lot of people are probably thinking about it and probably going to join like towards the end. But if you think that there's like a strong possibility this is something you're interested in, you really should get in today because tomorrow you're gonna have legitimate one on one time with me, Stefan and Luke. Instead of waiting for the roadmaps and stuff to come out, which are going to be awesome by the way, but instead of waiting for those roadmaps to come out and be rolled, you can literally help dial in the roadmaps yourself by talking to us about your specific problems and what you're facing and you can get personal attention about, like, the things you're facing right now. So we can get you the quickest possible possible wins. You'll. We can help you remove roadblocks before the Genesis program even officially kicks off on Monday. Because you're going to be able to talk to us one on one tomorrow. And we're going to give everybody the right time that, like the time that they need to actually get real results. Because you could ask anyone who was on the first call we did. People loved it and they said they had breakthroughs already and that was before the program even officially started.

So, yeah, that first. That first call, we did like a. It was. Yeah, I got a bunch of wins for people and I saw Greg. I see you, I see Jack Wu. Good to have you there and with us. Laird, I see your sign up right now, which is awesome too. Yeah, Andrew said first call was freaking awesome and. Yeah, just really, really pumped about that. So, yeah, if you want to be with us tomorrow for that. Probably should mention it earlier, but.

Yeah.

So people, if someone watches the replay or whatever it is, I'll mention my email list too, but I think it'll be pretty intimate. Cool. Yeah, sh. I would. Again, I love. I love all those people. I just think if it depends what you want, I mean, for Troy, if you want to do email list management, that stuff's great. I love Troy. He's, you know, like former student, like, and friend, you know, came. The thing I did in like 2019 was making 4 or 5k a month and now he's doing 7 figures a year. It's awesome to see not just running from the email stuff, but also obviously teaching it, coaching and all that stuff. But he's an amazing dude. Love him. Ning's, you know, former student was like an in house employee for Paleo hacks. When we started copying Solr, I started with Copy Starter and we got a bunch of cool wins and glad to see him flourishing too. So all kinds of good programs there, but I don't know, I can plant my flag that between me, Luke and Mario, I just, like I said, there's just nothing. Nothing's gonna be better or more intentional. We're not doing this as like a lifestyle, make money thing. We're doing this because we're like obsessed about it. Right. If that's what you like, obsessed. Like, you should see Luke's like a mad scientist with like scribbled on walls and stuff. Like obsessed with like making this the best. And frankly, all the extra competition in the marketplace is like amazing. It's a good thing because now we're even more obsessed. Like I was messaging the guys in bed last night, sending voice messages and I read a book about like product development and stuff because I'm like what about this? What about that?

He was reading two books at the same time.

Two books at the same time. It's a magic trick of mine. But like I'm like, like we're obsessing over this, right? It's not just. And we're going to keep and we're building it in a way that's sustainable. So it's not like we're obsessed now and we're going to get shiny object syndrome. Like yeah, we have Copy Starter Pro and Labs. But like this is saying we're building. That's one of the reasons why look, we'll be on calls. We'll you know, especially at the beginning but then you know, once a month at least we'll be on calls. We'll be periodic, we'll be overseeing, we're going to constantly working on it. We're also bringing in other A listers and other high level people to do the feedback. So that is a long term sustainable thing. So that you get success at the beginning and you keep getting success. The program only gets better. That's the thing, the mistake I made and I have to, I'm going to end this in a second because I gotta go jump on another call actually with people that I'm, I'm mentoring. But like you know, like Copy Starter Light was great but then it sort of like I learned so many lessons. I can take all the good I did. I mean we, you know, got the amount of people whose lives we changed is like unreal. But I also took all the like the things that we fucked up on and then make sure we don't fuck up with this new version. So it's going to be incredible. So yeah, join before 11am tomorrow. I'm going to you know, phone use the link one more time. I'll put it in the chat. But that Mary, look, I'll make one of you guys host in case what he wants to stick on for actually we can wrap it up. I think this is a good amount of time. So yeah.

Thank you.

Labs call so.

Oh yes, perfect.

Get some of you guys good and then get you up into CA labs because we have a lot of work for copywriters right now. Like we're incentivized to get you really good because we need good copywriters. That's why we're doing the program. Really?

Yeah. That's actually a really good point, too. Yeah. 100. All right, cool. Well, hey, thanks, everyone, for joining us. I'll send a replay to my email list later today as well. And, yeah, we'll go from there. But everyone, thank you. Email me if you have questions about Neogenesis. Feel free to email me. You should all have my email list or my email if you're on this, on this webinar. And we'll see all of you there. Thanks, Nick, for sitting behind Luke. Free believe. It's a good leap. It's a good leap, Greg. I'm really confident in this program. It's really, really excited for it. So. All right, thanks, everybody. We'll talk soon. Okay, bye.