Live discussion (Stefan Georgi, Ben, Saba) about using storytelling to write better sales copy and landing pages. Key advice: read popular fiction to learn pacing and character, start stories in the middle of the action, include small concrete sensory details to make scenes vivid (color, rain, sounds, smells), visualize narrating the scene as if you are there, favor short sentences in copy, and study high-performing story-based sales letters to 'swipe' proven models. Also: keep learning grammar basics; design contact (Hussein) mentioned for follow-up.
Chapters
So we got a question now from Federico in 2021. He wants to write a deep attention grabber story for his lead. So that means I guess he's working on it now. Do you have any advice on storytelling or any books you can recommend that can improve his ability to tell better stories and write much more gripping, attention grabbing leads?
I think people recommend books regularly on storytelling and they always forget what they are. I know people have said to study books about screenwriting. There's Stephen King's book on writing that people really like a lot. If people have great books on storytelling, feel free to share them in the chat or if you're on Facebook Live and the Facebook live comments, either one. I think for me, I really think reading popular fiction helps. Like I mentioned before that I've got like a bunch of Nicholas Sparks novels on my bookcase and you know, like I haven't read Twilight, but I should. And like I read a bunch of like the Girl on the Train, a million big little lies, different things like that. Right. Kind of like all these books that were really successful and popular. Gone Girl, you know, by Gillian Flynn. And so reading those kinds of books that are like the pacing and the narration and the characters. And I know that they've been wildly successful and a lot of people have resonated with them. I think, you know, you can get cues for that because that's like basically popular fiction, popular storytelling. And then I think, you know, the big things about story, it's like always like starting right in the middle of the action. And I think the best part about one of the big secrets of effective storytelling, even in copy, is really detail, like little details, like you don't want to overwhelm people, but like just those little details that make the story more concrete and relatable, more like real in the prospect's mind. I mean, even if it's a real story, you're just sort of like mentioning the color of the car that you got into as you drove to the hospital. It's kind of like, you know, or like the fact that it was raining. Right? Just those little, little details that make them really visualize. Yeah, like, like Krista just said, make them feel like they're there. They can visualize it and feel like they're a part of it. If you're talking about Sapiens, like from Noel Yuval Harari. Noel Yuval Harari. That's an amazing book. Arguable if it's like really related storytelling, but I do think it's a book everyone should read. So Highly recommend.
And just on the. Sorry, Stephanie, please stop it.
Go ahead.
No, I was just going to say more on the technical side of actually creating the stories yourself as a copywriter or as a writer. Definitely. When. If you can visualize it yourself as you're writing, so you're telling the story as the narrator, that helps a lot, too. It will come through in your writing rather than. Because I think there's a. You know, there's a part where you kind of write in third person as if you're. Some people write as if they're writing, trying to tell a story, and some people write as if they are there telling the story, if that makes sense. And the more you can do it with you actually in the scene telling the story, it will be a lot more powerful because you'll. You'll naturally, like, notice those little details and you'll naturally describe things as you see them. You have to kind of put it in your. You have to kind of be there in your mind. So you have to have an imagination. You have to kind of play a little bit.
Yeah, that's an awesome point, Saba.
Yeah, definitely. I think it's all about sensory language. So if you can describe what people or you, as Saba just said, what.
Bring people into the story. And then also something else that is kind of a joke, but not really.
From my first ever.
One of my first ever mentors ever, but my first ever mentor regarding writing.
Because he had a joke that was.
What do good authors and convicts have in common? They both like short sentences. So if you can. If you can present your ideas in a way where you remove your ego from your writing and you're not trying to impress people with your writing and you're just trying to be succinct and clear and include that emotional sensory language, you're going to be as a writer in general and a copywriter, head and shoulders above other people, just because it's.
I'm.
I might be. Because I don't sell copywriting courses. And Stefan, luckily, is in alignment with this as well, even though he does sell copywriting courses. There's like this thing out there that, like some people, you see it in the sales messaging were like, even if you've never written a word before, I'll teach you how to make millions writing sales copy. And I think you do need to be somewhat of a good or at least decent or functional writer in order to write compelling copy.
Yeah, I agree. If you don't, if you're. If you. I bring this up from people interviewing all the time, like, can anybody be a copywriter? You're like, if they're, you know, a decent, competent writer, then yes. If you don't know how to write and you're like, you don't know any rules of grammar and you don't have any tests, like, you gotta learn that stuff for sure. Like, it's not about following the laws of grammar. I mean, one of the great things about writing copy is like, that you don't have to like, I do. I still, I struggle so much with like, if it's like even that, the Facebook Live thing right now where it's like, join, you know, join us. We're gonna answer them. Cause it's like my team and I, Me and my team. Me and my team. I'm like, fuck, I don't know which one it is. I'm like, we'll answer. You know what I mean? Like, I still struggle so much with the whole like, so and so. Like, I know, I get it if it's like Saba and I went to the store, right? That one I know. But as soon as it's like they were talking to, I think it was like me and Saba about this, but then I'm like, I just don't even fucking know. And yet I've made like a billion dollars in sales and I'm a multimillionaire. So, you know, you don't have to know everything about grammar. But like, it, you know, you do have to have some competency. One other note too real quick is like reading novels and things like that is good. I just suggested it and I really think you should. And I think reading and like fiction and popular fiction specifically, but obviously just a reminder, not, don't write like a novelist, to Ben's point, about short sciences. That's a mistake you see a lot of early copywriters make, especially people who are really interested in creative writing again, where it's like, you know, I stood there, the rain pattern down on my head, smoking a cigarette. Damn, she's late. I look around, I'm like, this is like, you know, the start of like a fucking, you know, your novel, which is like cool, but that's not what we want for our sales letter. You know, it's like, so just think about that. I mean, look at other popular story based sales copy and how is their flow and how does it, you know, don't forget to swipe a model off that stuff as well. I mean, really, that's Huge part. Find other stories, story based letters that are done really well and then really swipe the shit out of those also other important part of it.
Yeah. And I mean, there's nothing wrong like you can read, you know, the more you read and the more like movies, documentaries and things you watch, you know, you get. Not directly, you won't get direct ideas that you can just kind of swipe and put in your copy. But it does open your mind up to being more creative in general. Right. Like you'll find it easier to have, you know, create like these scenes in your imagination. Like you'll be able to add more color to your, to your work. It doesn't have to be a direct swipe, if that makes sense from novels and you know, fiction books and things like that. I would just help open the light.
Sweet. Cool.
I'm really enjoying this.
Yeah, I had a good feeling. I was like upstairs, I was like, this is going to go well. I projected that. A quick question from Claudio Stefan. You had mentioned who you use for design in the Facebook group. Can you just say who that is? Again? He's asking about.
Yeah, Hussein. I can put it in the chat. I added him to the RNBC group too. I don't get any referral. I mean I could, but I don't, I don't get any referral commissions from him, but I just used him for.
A ton of stuff.
Good guy, very dependable and does really good work and really knows what he's doing.
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Then last question for now is we've got wrapping it up with Jose.
We do have two, by the way, Ben, because we do have someone put a request for like an ad critique kind of in the live.
Oh yeah, I did see that.
Which usually we want to do a critique, but I'm gonna let Saba. It's for Michael for an all. Let Saba give a little breakdown of it or some feedback, look at it together. But we can do that afterwards.
