5 Failed Rehabs, Then He Made a Deal With God | Bernard Quisumbing
In this episode of the One Part Lion, One Part Lamb podcast, host Stephen Scoggins interviews recovery advocate Bernard Quisumbing. Bernard recounts his harrowing journey through over a decade of crystal meth and cocaine addiction, five failed rehabilitation attempts, and the tragic loss of his brother, which propelled a spiritual turning point where he felt a direct encounter with Jesus. The conversation delves into the mental‑health fallout of his brother’s death, the concept of "rational lies" that the ego uses to justify harmful behavior, and the practical tools Bernard now employs to sustain his 20‑year sobriety. Central to the dialogue is the development of a GRIEF acronym—a step‑by‑step framework (Ground, Raise, Invite, Empathize, Forward) designed to help individuals and families navigate grief and addiction recovery. Bernard describes how grounding routines (sleep, movement, prayer, honest conversation) and family fitness rituals have reshaped his daily life, while the "Raise" component emphasizes vulnerability and asking for help, and "Invite" focuses on offering authentic support to others. The interview also highlights Bernard’s "Don't Quit Legacy Foundation," a nonprofit offering resources, community events, and a suicide‑prevention hotline for those struggling with mental illness. Throughout, both speakers maintain a conversational, reflective tone, expressing hope, empathy, and a commitment to sharing hard‑won wisdom with listeners who may be in the "messy middle" of their own recovery journeys.
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This has been so insane because I don't think I've cried this much in my life.
My friend today is an up-and-coming thought leader, but more importantly, one of the things I've got to know about him is his heart. Guys, please help me welcome the one and only Bernard Q.
20 years sober from over 14 years of crystal meth and cocaine addiction.
Which is just an incredible miracle.
Well, I think I've introduced over 60 people to meth, both for the benefits that I thought it would give them, and once they did, it was over. 5 failed rehabs, went to jail. First thing I did when I came out was walk right past my mom and into my drug dealer's car to go back and do drugs. For me, outside of God's grace, I'd still be a meth addict. I'd probably be dead or in jail. I'm gonna share this completely and openly. My daughter, as amazing and wonderful as she is, she has the mean streak that I have. I wanted to bring that to light for her and raise her awareness at it so that she could understand it. I did that for about 3 months with her, and when I tell you
how hurt she was in that end,
I don't think it's landing the way it's supposed to.
Hey there, welcome back to One Part Lion, One Part Lamb, your integrated method to rise, lead, and last. As always, your host, Stephen Scoggins. So happy you're here, so happy you're joining us. We're going to continue on this journey, trying to give you inspiring education, uh, that empowers you to take the next steps. Uh, one of the things we're going to be doing today is a little bit different, is we're going to touch on some pretty— well, Well, sophisticated subject matter. And the reason I share that with you is if for some reason you're actually with your children riding in the car, or you're at home watching within earshot of your children, today I'm gonna ask that you hold this episode and listen to it a little bit later. This episode is specifically for adults, 'cause it is gonna contain mature content, such as terms around addiction and even suicide. I wanted to put that out there just so you had a little insight, 'cause you know we wanna be alongside of you in this level of service. So with all that being said, we're still gonna have a fantastic episode. It's one you're not going to miss. It's probably gonna be an episode that if you know someone is struggling and they've been watching through and walking through some very difficult things, you're probably gonna wanna share it with them. We're gonna touch on some really beautiful reframes of getting out of darkness, if you wanna call it that. So today, my friend today is an up-and-coming thought leader, specifically around fitness, wellness. He is a former rapper. Well, I guess he's technically still a hip-hop artist, designer. He's still all the things, right? But more importantly, one of the things I've got to know about him is his heart. And he's been on a study case for grief and how grief is realized in the marketplace. And it's coming from a real place. And one of the things we've realized about high-capacity leaders is many times the grief segment of life is what takes our legs out from under us because we're not accustomed to dealing with it. In fact, we're normally accustomed to actually performing. So I hope you enjoy this episode, guys. Please help me welcome the one and only Bernard Q. Dude, what's going on, man?
Thank you so much for having me, man.
Yeah, man.
Thank you so much. And this safe haven, absolutely beautiful.
I appreciate that, brother. I appreciate that. Well, I didn't want to give away in the intro a huge portion of your journey. You just celebrated, or in the process of celebrating, a huge milestone. Yes. So I kind of want to talk a little bit there, if it's all right to get started, get a little background, kind of who you are, what you've walked through, and then the thing we've been celebrating the last day or so.
Sounds good. So October 6th, Man, October 6th will be 20 years sober from over 14 years of crystal meth and cocaine addiction.
Which is just an incredible miracle.
Yeah.
Yeah. Meth is one of the most addictive substances on the planet.
Yeah. And I heard a statistic that it was like 6% can actually break free from the addiction, but— and 3% will be able to, you know, come back to society, but only 1% can actually thrive. And You know what? It's been one of those situations where God has definitely helped me push through
it.
And it's been amazing.
You shared something with me, literally, I think, as we were coming back from the gym this morning, that I thought was really profound. And I'm going to try to articulate it in a way that comes across really well from my perspective. This element of understanding that you thought at one time you were leading people, towards a greater awakening, right? Yeah. I would've realized that it was unfortunately gonna create destruction. I was hoping that if you're okay with it, maybe sharing a little bit about that, because I feel like, and here's the reason why, so many times I discover people who have been through very difficult situations, they're using knowledge that they had at the time. They realize that that knowledge is not serving them, right? And they realize that it causes, you know, things that happen that are a byproduct of a season of life, if you will. And as a result, they beat themselves up for the rest of their life on decisions they could have done differently, mistakes they made. And what I'm trying to get people to do is really step into grace, like really understand grace and mercy is available for anyone and everyone who's willing to receive it, which is beautiful because the grace and mercy in general, it's a free gift to everybody. So— Yes. I was hoping we could start there.
Definitely.
Feel free to unpack or not unpack as much as you feel comfortable with.
Open book.
I know that's, that's, that's, that led us to a beautiful dinner last night as we're all hanging out and chatting. But, you know, I just thought it was such a really beautiful sentiment that you shared with me this morning. And because I would, I bet you'd be far surprised at how many people are carrying wounds that God has actually already taken off of them.
Yeah. And And that grace has actually been an undertone theme to every part of this transformational journey that started right about what I would call 20 years ago when I finally became sober. But before that, when I jumped into meth, it was actually something that freed me from cocaine. Mm-hmm. So to me, I was— I mean, I'm talking like blowing out chunks. It was bad. It got to the point where I could not find the dragon anymore. It was a constant chase. And I mean, I got to ending up doing about an ounce of cocaine in one night. Like, that's— you're just not supposed to. And I'm not supposed to survive through that. But I did. And I bet there's a lot of other people that have struggled through it that have. But here's the thing. I was looking for a way out from that. Mm-hmm. And somebody introduced me to crystal meth and methamphetamines. And it literally eliminated my addiction towards cocaine. And here's the craziest part. I felt like it was the limitless drug. If you've ever seen the movie where he takes that limitless pill, that's literally what I felt like on meth. It expanded the way that I created music. It expanded the way that I thought. It expanded so many different areas of my life that I was just like, oh my goodness, this is the most amazing thing in the world. Mm-hmm. So, of course, being somebody very vocal about my life, I started introducing people to it. And the number that I have tallied in my head now, it's not exact, is about 60 people. I think I've introduced over 60 people to meth, both for the benefits that I thought it would give them, as well as for the manipulative side of it, where I needed to fund it. So I would lie to them and have them buy some. Yeah. And I would take some on my own. And Lie to them until they spent all their money with me. Pretty much share with them for a little bit so that they got addicted to it. And once they did, it was over.
Yeah.
And if
you don't mind me asking, what led you to addiction to begin with?
Oof. We're going to go back even deeper. So unfortunately, as a young child, we're talking 7 years old was when I actually first started doing drugs. And my parents, immigrants from the Philippines, trying to make their way. We were absolutely broke, living in a 3-story apartment. We lived in the middle floor. And we had a nanny that came with us. And unfortunately, she loved my younger brother and absolutely hated me. Hmm. And I experienced prejudicial abuse at that age. She would have my baby brother on the bed. This was my brother Michael, not my brother David, which we'll talk about later. And she would have him on the bed watching TV while she would force me to sit on the floor. And she would always take his side in arguments, and she would abuse me. So there was a lot of areas there where I needed escape. And there were 2 kids upstairs, teenagers, 16 at that time, I was 7, that were upstairs, and they were the cool kids on the block. Mm-hmm. And so I hung out with them. I mean, they taught me how to smoke fireworks. Fireworks and stuff like that. But the truth is, they taught me how to ride a bike. They taught me how to fight. They taught me how to throw ninja stars.
So it was your— it was your— it was your, um, your introduction to community that you didn't have. Okay,
exactly. And, and not only that, I mean, I remember a time where me and my brother were walking home from school and we got picked on, and those 2 were the ones that came in and wrecked shop on the people that were picking on us, and they never picked on us again.
Yeah. So not only did they provide community, they provided protection. Yeah. As far as like, you know, the reason I say that is because a lot of times as parents, um, and this has been— this is— thank God this is changing now, but there was a season for decades, um, where, you know, parents were absentee parents, right? They were too busy on career, all these types of things. And that created other subconscious, uh, things that the children then had to work through. And then, you know, in many cases, filter out, become a better parent themselves. And I was in that stage, like, a lot. My early days, I had kind of absentee parents, minus my grandmother who was raising me at the time. And it was no fault of their own. They were legitimately working on themselves in different ways. And I'm 50 years old, just turned 50 this last January in 2026. And what was really interesting was I discovered for 48 years, I had been trying to prove my worth, find my worth, because I didn't have those key connections to learn about internal safety, subconscious awareness, nurturing, empowering, and love. And I find that a lot of us struggle with these types of things, not being fully aware that these types of things exist. So I like unpacking these types of things because I want the listeners and the people watching to begin to look at their life objectively. I always say, look at it like a director, like you're watching a movie. Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Take a step out. You're not the character, you're the director, right? What, what, what lesson is the— what, what lesson is the director seeing that was being learned in that, that process? You know, um, you know, so it doesn't surprise me that, um, being young, right, the brain's not even fully developed at that time, and then just wanting to be safe, seen, and felt secure. That's it,
right?
Yeah.
Unfortunately, that led me down the path
Yeah.
That started. But truth is, if I were able to really go back into everything and do it all over again, right now, the only thing that I'm unpacking that I probably would still want to change is the loss of my baby brother. Everything else, and I'm good with.
Yeah.
I've come to terms with.
Yeah.
And so I have a feeling I'm going to come to terms with the greatest loss right now that I'm facing and dealing with and trying to navigate.
Yeah.
But this is also an area where I'm realizing this is not something I can carry on my
own. Well, you've had a pretty substantial shift in the last 24 hours.
Yeah. Drastic. Drastic.
Yeah. Which is— it's a beautiful thing to witness. And, you know, myself and Dan played an active role in for a brief moment in history. And, you know, one of the things that that kept coming up last night, we were talking at dinner, is this concept of what does it mean to grieve well, right? And what does it mean to release what's beyond your control, release where you don't have responsibility, and these types of things? So first of all, I just want to congratulate you on sobriety, man. Thank you. It was funny, I got to watch you last night have a quick conversation with your family on the way home. And It was so beautiful to witness and watch, right? You know, your daughter was like, you know, telling me about her day and kind of all of the exciting things that she was like talking about. She's like, I
was there. Certainly she didn't miss me enough yet.
Yeah, that was actually really funny. You haven't been gone long enough yet, Daddy.
Goodness gracious. Yeah.
And then trying to guess who was in the car was always a fun thing. But I guess the reason I'm bringing that up is because before we touch on your brother, I'd like to touch on the destructiveness that happened with the relationship with your wife for a while and how it's been restored and things of that nature. Because again, I think a lot of times we get lost in the trauma that's happening in that moment, or maybe somebody watching or listening right now that's going through a very dark season.
Right.
Right. And they're looking for hope on different ways to get out of it. So if you don't mind, because I know that's some of the work you do now, you work on folks regarding these deep wounds and these relationships and stuff like that. I'd love for you to share whatever you feel like you're comfortable with. And kind of the relational capacity during the addiction season.
So I'm just going to dive right into it. About 3 years ago, my wife was suicidal, and I had gotten to a point where I was so jaded that I don't even know if I cared. Like, that's how bad it got. And the reason behind it was because for the last 10 years before that, I have been busting my butt selling cars. Crushing it in the sales industry and top performer on every dealership I've ever worked at and bringing home the bacon, providing a phenomenal life. Fortunately, 60 to 80 hours a week doesn't lend much for me being present. And instead of hearing, babe, you're so awesome, babe, you're so amazing. Thank you for providing everything. And I don't have to worry about anything. I was getting the, you're never home, you're never this. And for me, it turned into a sense of her not being grateful when in all truth and reality, all she was really asking for was my presence and my time. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't hear that. There was just no part of me that could even understand that. And even as many ways that she tried communicating it, I wasn't hearing it and I wasn't ready yet to.
Yeah.
But 3 years ago, I definitely heard it.
Yeah.
And that changed the trajectory of where we were going. We actually hired coaches and we had— we sought out help.
Yeah. What was the most important piece of knowledge that you learned that had the greatest lift in the most immediate way? And when it came to reconciling and building a beautiful marriage?
I would say that the biggest transitional shift was when I stopped making it about what I wanted out of it.
Okay.
And I started actually listening to what she was looking for from it. Because here's the thing, even up to that point, I was so jaded and so lost. Like, if anybody were to ask me, hey, how's your marriage going? Amazing. Phenomenal. Great. Always an optimistic viewpoint from my side, right? Meanwhile, my wife is literally crumbling behind the scenes. So for my end and the way that I wanted things, it was good. I was getting my way or the highway. So everything was good because it was going what I thought was my way. Mm-hmm. And so I would say that the biggest transitional shift in really connecting with my wife was realizing that it wasn't All about what I wanted. Yeah,
yeah. You know, it's really powerful because I think a lot of times we cast expectations out on business, the world, leadership, all of it. And most of those expectations are based on our point of reference in that moment from maturity standpoint. Um, you know, because I, I got to witness last night a very loving family, you know. So there's clearly been some miracles that have happened and some miracle working there. How was that? How was the realization of what life is now like created just a healthy or beautiful respect for kind of like what life was like prior?
Oh my goodness. Amazing, right? Because I get to look back at everything and now have such a deep sense of gratitude. Because like you asked me yesterday, how do you experience joy? Well, from being able to experience the complete opposite of it. And how do I experience such a phenomenal, wonderful marriage? from having been able to experience a really horrible, jaded one. You know, again, to the point where she was literally suicidal, drinking her life away. I was self-righteous in my sobriety at that point. And we were just so disconnected.
Yeah.
And now, I mean, it's unbelievable the amount of connection that can actually exist if you're intentional about it. Like, goodness gracious, who would have thunk it, right? Like, actually be intentional. About spending time together.
Yeah.
And so one of our morning routines is we wake up before the kids get up. Not always, because they get up too. But it's actually amazing when they do. But me and my wife will spend 60 to 90 minutes, just us talking.
And what are you doing in those 60 to 90 minutes?
Just sitting on the couch talking about everything that's going on, asking each other where each other's heart is at.
Yeah.
Asking each other, you know, or going through what we're going through openly, vulnerably.
Yeah.
We now have the space to do that. Yeah. You know, and we now give each other the space to do that and the respect to really listen to what the other is going through as opposed to only try to input our side of it. Right? Yeah. So we spend that much time and then we go into reading the Bible together and then unpacking it together. And it's been amazing too, because God is literally like step by step giving us insane instruction while we're sitting there opening up the Bible and we're like, it can't possibly be right here.
Yeah.
I mean, even to the point where, where we stop reading, what happens next is literally where we start the next day. And it's just like, you've got to be kidding me.
I call them divine synchronicities.
Yeah, exactly. And it's been absolutely insane looking at it. And it's just so much fun. And it's— my wife pictures it like this. She says, it's as if God is literally holding both of our hands, walking us through this season of wilderness that we're going through right now.
Yeah.
But he's holding our hands.
Yeah.
And my wife is like— and you're sitting there going, all right, God, what do we got next? Meanwhile, my wife is like, oh, crap. Oh, crap. Oh, crap. Oh, crap. And then she's running to me going, oh, crap. What are you going to do about it? Well, I'm like, I don't know what God wants me to do about it just yet. And we're both stepping into it together.
Yeah.
And I'm trying my best to love her in the best way that I could, even in the midst of it. And then God is meeting her exactly where I can't.
As he should.
Yeah. And I realize there's so much of the areas that I can't. Yeah. My goodness, how many times did I try to step into that? Oh, that was ridiculous.
So the man before— I'm gonna go back to the man before the mission a little bit. There's a, there's a couple of things I jotted down here that I think Are important that you kind of already touched on a couple of them. What was really interesting about Latin? I'll touch on this first. What was really interesting about last night? We sat down for dinner as a group and we're just all chitter chattering. You know, I opened up the door to just say, "Hey man, I don't." We first time we met each other was yesterday. It's like, "Hey man, just tell me about you, bro." And you're like, "Well, if I'm honest, I'm walking through a wilderness right now near the loss of my brother." And I'm like, wow, he told the truth. He told the truth. He told the truth. Like, and the reason I say that's a wow is because most of us don't tell the truth, right? There's this principle that you have that I love, which is 2 hands. One hand to give help, one hand to receive help. Most of us will give help. We give the shirt off our back over and over again. And most of us won't take the mask off long enough to receive help. And the reason I say that is because one of the questions I jotted down here is that level of performance comes from somewhere, right? The need to perform, the need to outside be really seen. And when we look at the nanny moment and we look at the family and we look at the community that the— call it the earlier friend group had. It seems to me there would've been a moment where essentially you learned to perform instead of feel. Right? So is there a moment in time that that became like the core anchor?
It wasn't more of a moment. It was more of a long trajectory of it. My mom was a grinder and a hustler, and she was the one that I craved Love from.
The most.
Yeah. Period. My dad gave it to me. So my mom, I mean, it was, it was, it was rough. And look, my mom has told me many times in the messaging that, you know, I'm a worthless piece of crap laying on a couch and I'm a wasted potential, everything you can think of. And I remember I would, I would sit there About 300 pounds laying on the couch. And I remember that she took a picture of me and showed it to me. You know, the shirt was up, my belly was everywhere, and I was just laying on the couch sleeping all day because I had just finished a 4 or 5-day binger on crystal meth that I was up for. So I crashed. Yeah. And yeah, she literally told me the truth. I was being wasteful with everything that God had given me. I was blessed with musical talent. I could rap and freestyle at a level that, you know.
Yeah.
But I was wasting it on drugs. But I was addicted. I didn't even know how to escape yet. So with that being said, my wife— my mom, I mean, not my wife. Sorry. There was a connection there. I promise you there's a connection. Call that a Freudian slip. She actually lent into that. And also it was part of the work. But my mom definitely made me feel like I wasn't enough for a very long time. And the saddest thing is it wasn't that my mom didn't love me. She absolutely loved me to the best of her capacity. I just wasn't able to see it then.
Yeah.
And it was—
So in the grand scheme of things, what do you think you were running from in that season? During— During the addiction season and all the things that happened. Like, what do you— because I find that No matter whether people want to admit it or not, uh, we— most of us self-medicate with something, right?
Right.
So I think those that, um, end up medicating through harder substances, um, get a lot of, um, a lot of, a lot of things, a lot of help, but also a lot of shame cast at them, right? Um, you know, I self-medicate every morning with caffeine. Right. Like, you saw me, I cranked an energy drink. I was at the gym. Um, I didn't sleep well last night. Um, so, you know, I've— I was, you know, I had a cup of coffee as well, like, and, you know, just to be alert, right? Um, I self-medicate with the gym, right? It's a more of a formal, healthier way to self-medicate, right? Um, but when it comes to— a lot of times I feel like, um, a lot of the healing doesn't occur until we stop running.
Yeah,
right. It's hard for God's grace to catch up with you when you're constantly moving.
Yeah,
you know, and a lot of times that running is happening at the soul level or the subconscious level. So I'm just curious, what do you— can you think of a time or an instance where that this running felt like part of the auto program?
Yeah, I, I can actually pinpoint what I believe is, is the source of this. So I grew up fat all my life. I mean, I was a fat baby. I was the chunky baby. There was jokes from the beginning all the way till I finally lost it all. Right. But I think it was one of those things where I was always seeking for approval in that area, not just from everybody else, but internally of what I felt about myself. Mm-hmm. And it was bad messaging. I mean, When I was in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade, this is grammar school now, they used to call me Barnyard instead of Bernard. And the reason why was because I was too big to just be one of the animals. I was the whole barnyard. And I remember, you know, I mean, it got so, so bad that I became so good at making the jokes that I would make fun of myself and be funnier than everybody else so that they were laughing with me instead of at me. Yeah.
Yeah.
But I can't even tell you, up until about 3 years ago, when I finally got my fitness in check— thank you, peptides— when I finally got my fitness in check, that I probably spent 60% to 70% of my waking days thinking about how fat I was. Like, even in the midst of selling cars and crushing it. What's my weight today? How much weight did I gain? Can I eat this? Driving home, which one's the lesser evil? Which place can I go eat? I need to eat something. It's so late. I just finished the last deal. I'm not going home to cook something healthy, but which one's the— and I'm talking like listening to audiobooks, trying to concentrate on an audiobook. And all I could think of is what fast food restaurant will give me the most bang for my buck?
Yeah.
While giving me the least detrimental effects.
Yeah.
So the weight thing was such a huge burden on my life the whole time and of just not feeling enough. And then my mom definitely emphasized that.
Yeah.
The girls that I had crushes on growing up definitely emphasized that. Mm-hmm.
It's interesting how it's— and this is one thing, I guess, one of the reasons I want to ask some of these questions is because I want people to do a little bit of scanning on their own. Okay, where am I making decisions? Or where do I feel heaviness? Where do I feel shame, guilt, all these types of things from areas that were honestly not really mine to carry? Maybe it's like believing in messaging. The messaging becomes an identity.
Right.
Right. And the only way to free yourself from an identity is to actually see yourself clearly. Right. Which typically comes through the value— the valuation of gifts, talents, strengths, um, things we're really good at in the world and things of that nature. So yeah, I'm always curious about that. Um, I think one other final question, and I want to definitely get into grief. Well, actually, I got 2 questions. I think one of those— I think that one of the questions is, is what did drugs promise you that it never delivered?
Genius is what I think it promised me. Like a sense of genius and authority over others.
Yeah.
Because when I was on drugs, the way that I could freestyle was unbelievable. But yet I was too scared to actually take it to the next level. Like, I was actually scared to bring it to a front stage and compete at a high level. Although anybody that came into my studio, which were hundreds of people during that time. Yeah. From fans to other rappers.
Yeah.
I'd crush them.
Yeah. Yeah.
And yet I was too scared, too insecure to go out into the world and actually bring it there.
See, I love your vulnerability. I love the fact that you like to, you say it real. Because I feel like in this, in today's time, it's becoming increasingly more active now. But I feel like for the last 3 decades, people won't say it real.
Yeah, this is new for me too. For the past 3 decades, for me, I definitely didn't. I was king of posture.
Yeah.
And in rap, I mean, it's not like you sat there and rapped vulnerability. Yeah. Rapped, I'm the best.
Yeah.
I can't tell you how many best rappers there are. There are— everyone's the GOAT.
Yeah.
Or they claim to be.
Yeah.
And that's literally the culture that I grew up in. I'm the GOAT. I'm the best. I'm this, this, this, and that. And
yeah,
man, talk about— no, you're not.
Yeah.
And it's okay to not be.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until I finally realized it was okay not to be that I finally started talking. You know what?
Yeah.
Man, his grace is sufficient. My weakness, that's where he becomes perfect.
Yeah.
In every aspect of my life. And That transition has been the most freeing because, like you said, I don't have to carry this. Thank God. Because although it looked like I was doing a pretty decent job at carrying it—
You can't see the heaviness of a heart on the surface.
No. Like, no.
And that's literally where this keeps taking me right now, man. This is— this has been so insane because I don't think I've cried this much in my life since the past 3 months. I don't think I've cried this much in my whole entire life. I think I've built such a wall of defense that I've been so completely fine. And now it's just like, this I can't carry. I just can't. And from surrender to discipline, To achievement, to realizing achievement didn't get me what I wanted. So back to surrender. And in that surrender, full obedience. And what I'm realizing, even in the sense of being fully obedient, I'm absolutely dependent now. Absolutely dependent.
After being there myself, I can tell you it's a beautiful place to be, even though it doesn't feel like that in the moment, for sure.
It has both. There's definitely beautiful in it, but there's this undertone of ache that I've never had before. I mean, maybe when I say never had, right, I guess, you know, having to carry the fact that I was heavy all my life is one of those things.
Yeah.
But it doesn't hurt like this.
Yeah.
It hurt in a completely different way.
Yeah.
That absolutely, like, sucked.
Yeah.
But this one, you know, with that one, there was a way out that I saw.
Yeah.
Work hard, diet properly, even though I failed a lot of times, you know, Hit the gym, be more consistent, et cetera. There was a way that I could work my way out of that. There isn't a place where I get my brother back.
Yeah.
There isn't that right now. There's no work that I can do to control this situation and have the outcome that I want.
Yeah. Yeah. I want to get one more question. And then I do want to talk about what you're learning about grief and what it means to grieve well and move well. And this is more for the parents out there or the loved ones, the brother, the sister, the mother, the uncle who are watching their loved one struggle and even be self-destructive with a substance. Okay. And the reason I want to frame it that way is because I feel like outside looking and watching people go through these different seasons, that most of us don't know what to do, right? We don't know if we're doing too much. We don't know if we're doing too little. We don't know what it's going to take. What can we do, say, or act? What— like any of that, we don't know. What is going to stick with a person who's going through addiction? So the question is, what do you think the number one thing that families are getting wrong when their loved one is struggling with addiction?
Well, first and foremost, if they're not seeking professional help or guidance. There's no winging this. Right? Like, it is definitely something that has become so expansive and difficult to navigate that there are amazing professionals that can help. And just trying to wing it doesn't really work. Especially if— oh my goodness, like, think about it this way. So many parents are wondering whether or not they're enabling their children by loving them too much or helping them through these situations. There's so many different areas where if you don't have the right understanding of actually what's going on and then having communication, clear communication with them, I mean, you're just winging it. And will it work sometimes? Sure. There's chances. There's miracles. I mean, I'm a living miracle in this case scenario. And One of the biggest aspects of it was because my mom and my dad, even through my many, many, many years of addiction, loved me through it all to the best of their ability. And I mean, they fought for me hard.
Yeah.
They fought for me hard.
Yeah. What do you think? All right, so let's— I'm gonna flip the script a little bit. Cool. And then we'll move on from the addiction because you've obviously done a beautiful job So many years sober, a lot to celebrate there. Um, let's assume for a second somebody's watching or listening right now.
Okay.
Okay. And maybe they're struggling with an addiction, maybe at a deep level, maybe at a, like, a moderate level, right? You know, they haven't gone full-blown and to lose complete loss of themselves, but they're still struggling with it, right? They're, and they're hiding behind it, right? It's a mask of sorts. Um, What would you share with them that they don't see that's somehow being destructive or stealing their life from them?
So here's the craziest part with this one, and I'm just going to have to go with my personal experience.
Sure.
On this one, because there isn't a modality that's a one-size-fits-all for anyone dealing with addiction, just like grief.
Yeah.
There isn't a one-size-fits-all thing for them. And for me, what I realized, though, is that regardless what modality you go through, it only has a certain aspect of it, like capacity of it. For me, I had to literally run to God at that point. And I was— I didn't even know God at that time. Mm-hmm. Like, for me, it was 5 failed rehabs. Went to jail. First thing I did when I came out was walk right past my mom and into my drug dealer's car to go back and do drugs. So for me, outside of God's grace, I'd still be a meth addict. Yeah. I'd probably be dead or in jail at this point. But for me, it was running to God and really asking God for help. And mine sounded like this. Hey, God, look, I don't even know if you exist. I don't even know if you're out there. But if you do, if you take this from me, I will surrender my life to you. That was on October 6th, 2006.
So that's where Jesus met you.
That's where Jesus met me. And oh my goodness, Stephen, like, it was unbelievable. Like, I woke up after 6 days of crashing, and normally what would be an influx of withdrawal symptoms that would just crush me and By crushed me, I'm talking everything, feeling the weight of everything from manic depression to— I even had bloody stools, stomachaches, everything. And the worst part about it is one hit, one hit, and it was all gone. So the chances of me dealing with that and breaking through to whatever— I mean, it lasts. It doesn't go away.
Yeah.
And I didn't know of anything that would make it go away. So after 6 days of crashing, on the 7th day, literally the whole room was filled with white light. And I was like, oh man, I'm either dying and going to heaven or something crazy is happening. And I literally felt as though the addiction was being pulled back from me and coming out the back of my neck.
Wow.
And at that moment, I knew. And at the same time, I was like, oh, crap. I just made the craziest deal of my life.
Mm-hmm. 2 hands we all carry.
Yeah.
I want to dig in deep to those. Okay. Is one— does one come more natural than it used to?
Oh, the I can help always came more natural. The I can help always came more natural. Not that I always wanted to, unless it was for performance and to be seen.
Yeah.
But it always came natural. Like, let me help you out. Let me show you what I can do and help you in the process of it. So that one came easy for me. The asking for help, I didn't even know if I deserved help first and foremost. Like, why would I ask for it? Like, who would want to help me?
So that ties directly back to, am I worthy of— am I worthy of assistance? It still goes back to, am I worthy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And man, knowing what Christ has done for me now in its full capacity, and even imagining now what he went through to take that on. Mm-hmm. Because before, man, I used to minimize it so much. I remember my friend Travis, who I love so much. He's the one that helped guide me when I first trans— like when God freed me from this. And he was helping me walk through this. I remember he would cry, like completely sobbing at what Christ had done in his life for him. And I'd be like, what the heck are you crying for? Like, for what? Yeah. That doesn't even make sense. He knew he was going to rise anyway. Like, why would you even— why does that even matter? And I didn't realize the weight of all of it. Right. And I didn't realize the weight of my sin at that point. And the fact that he took on not only mine, but all of me. And I was like, if I cry now at the level that I cry just for the weight of my own sin, oh my God. Oh my God.
Yeah. Hey there, I hope you're enjoying the episode.
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So when, when it comes to raising your hand and asking for assistance, Which I think a lot of people struggle with.
Yeah.
Like, I don't think it's a— I don't think it's gender-specific. I don't think it's age-specific. Um, I feel like it's, um, I'd say ego, but not ego in a controlling way. Ego as in like there's a part of you that doesn't want to ask for the help.
Yeah.
Okay. So what do you think? What do you think keeps us from asking for help?
Well, it's, it's one of either one actually, because there's the inflated ego and the deflated one. Right. So for the inflated ego, I don't need help.
Yeah,
I'm too good for that.
Yeah.
For the deflated one, it's, I'm not sure I'm even worthy of being helped. So I, I can't ask him. Why would he want to help me?
Yeah.
Right. So either one, it's like, until we can recognize where we truly stand and be so clear in, in taking a real picture, a clear picture of where we are, and taking inventory of who we truly are, can you really get to the place where you can say, hey, you know what? I can't do this one.
So what was the unexpected benefit of raising your hand the first time for help?
My wife is alive today. And I have the most amazing marriage.
Yeah.
You want to talk about unexpected benefits? I mean, it doesn't beat that. And I have 2 kids that literally get to watch this. Watch how me— they watch when me and my wife argue. They watch when me and my wife apologize. They watch when me and my wife forgive. They watch when me and my wife laugh. Cry, all of it. We don't hide any of it from them neither.
Yeah.
The sexy time we have to. Everything else—
That's probably better for you. Yeah. Yeah.
Everything else is an open book for them. And then we share with them what we're navigating through. I mean, my 8-year-old, nothing like an 8-year-old at this point. She was already way advanced. And we were like, we could either shield—
She did not sound 8 years old last night. She sounded like 12 or 13 years old.
And that's because she's being cutesy with Daddy. If she will hold court in a conversation. Yeah, you could interview her in your podcast and you'd be like, holy moly.
For sure. I want to go back to vulnerability for just a second, because what's interesting is, is I think there's lies that we tell ourselves when it comes to being vulnerable, asking for help, you know, raising the proverbial hand. that prevents us from doing it. On this, on the flip side of that, that once we do it, we find trust and safety in a handful of mentors, friends, allies, coaches that allows us to really do it and really begin to unpack things. What was the maybe an unexpected, an unexpected benefit from vulnerability?
So I'm going to share this completely and openly. My daughter, as amazing and wonderful as she is, she has the mean streak that I have. Okay. And I remember there was a time where I wanted to bring that to light for her and raise her awareness at it so that she could understand it. And so I started telling her, hey, baby girl, trying to connect with her and help her to understand. Yeah. You're just like Daddy in this one thing. You have the mean streak like me. Mm-hmm. This one hurts because I did that for about 3 months with her. And when I tell you
how hurt she was in that, and
I mean, she started calling herself the mean one out of the 2 siblings. She was like, Zaya's the nice one. I'm the mean one. And my wife was trying to communicate to me how, Bear, I understand that you're trying to share with her that this was you in this situation and everything like that. But I don't think it's landing the way it's supposed to. And me being—
It sounds like she was starting to form an identity around it.
Oh my gosh, it was bad, man. Like, it was— this is my baby girl.
Yeah.
And she's literally starting to carry this weight as she's the mean one.
Yeah.
And
well, so here's the— I want to just pause right here for a second. So here's the interesting thing, because this comes up a lot in the work that I do. and see clients with. And most of us aren't fully aware of how much of past generational stuff we allow to continue. So in that moment, you've shared this story about your daughter. My dad came to me one time, was like, always remember, Scoggins don't get ahead, they get by.
Wait, what happened?
All that at one time. This is years and decades ago. But Scoggins don't get ahead, they get by.
Oh.
So, well, I guess what I'm getting at is, is so much of our childlike identity is formed by what our parents allow to be heard by our ears, right? Which I think is important because here's an example of you being vulnerable and sharing about this story, example of me sharing about my own father. And because I want people that are watching and listening to be aware of, you need to be aware of your words. Yeah, I wouldn't say cautious necessarily, because, you know, caution precedes, um, um, honest— like, a— not a reduction of honesty, but, uh, it's hard to explain what I'm trying to actually say. Um, oh, I got it. My good friend Henry tells me all the time, he goes, um, is it coming from love or coming from fear?
Phenomenal.
So everything runs through that lens, right? Before I— before I articulate— like last night, we were all having a conversation, very vulnerable, open conversation, right? I hope that with anything that I shared, that I always came from love. Then at no point in time does it ever come from fear. Because I want parents to be aware of this, because these people that watch, that listen to the show, they're parents. They're likely a parent, right? Because they're high achievers. They're out there trying to make something happen from nothing. They're walking through difficult circumstances on a day-in, day-out basis, and they're still having to come home and be a parent. Right. And how we show up is vitally important. And literally, that one frame of reference is coming from love or is it coming from fear? Right. Because at least in my dad's moment, he was sharing with me something that he thought was going to serve and help me. But what it was really doing was it was as a fear. It was like, I fear that Stephen will end up experiencing the same experience.
Exactly. You know?
Yeah.
And that's so, so you, you hit the nail right on the head right here. Because look, when I was sharing this with my daughter, I was definitely coming from a place of love. Maybe a slight tinge of fear of her ending up becoming the mean one. Yeah. You know what I mean? And not nipping it in the bud before it got too late.
Yeah.
Because it was actually coming out. I just didn't realize how much my emphasis on it would actually take it for the worst. But here's the thing. Due to the fact that I know it was coming from love, right? I know that my heart, my intention, everything like that. Maybe I wasn't skilled and didn't understand exactly what it was, but it was coming from love. So within that love, I have to be vulnerable.
Mm-hmm.
I have to be vulnerable and say, hey, listen, I might not have this one. And, you know, it was my wife that literally stepped into her power and really took a stand. Normally she doesn't. Yeah. When it comes to this, she gives me enough leash to hang myself. But this one, she was like, no, we're done. Look, she is trying her— and I'll never forget it. It was in the kitchen. She was like, she is trying her best right now. And she is changing as much as possible. Unfortunately, this one's going the wrong direction. And I think think you have not read enough or learned enough in this category for you to keep using the same modality. So she's changing, you are not.
Yeah, yeah.
And I was like, oh crap, you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Because I'm just coming from it from my knowledge, my limit.
I think it also goes back to the fact that what you said earlier is not— not every modality should be for every person.
No.
There's a— some people have to be like— even part of one part being one part lion, one part lamb, some people need a kick in the pants. Brothers need a hug.
Yeah.
And being able to navigate the wisdom in between those moments, it takes time. It takes time. It takes radical self-awareness. It takes radical accountability. It takes radical letting go of stuff that's not yours. Right. You know? So, yeah. Yeah.
And sometimes it takes the tragic catalyst. For me, I've been working on empathy for the last 5 years. Before that, didn't give a crap. Yeah. But for the last 5 years, I have literally tried to find modalities to work on my level of empathy.
Yeah.
I mean, even to the point in 2021, I actually suffered from suicidal depression. I went into a business And I'm not going to say any companies or anything like that. Sure. Not trying to throw anything under the bus, but it ended up going from the car business, which I loved taking pictures with all my customers, happy customers, brand new cars, et cetera, to selling final expense benefits. All right. And life insurance. And I'm literally closing at the same rate that I did selling cars. The difference was I was scaring the crap out of people. About all the tragic outcomes of not having life insurance. Did I believe I was serving them? Sure I did. But unfortunately, it was such a hard close, negative hard hits, really hitting them right in between the nose, you know, talking about who's going to pick up the pieces if you pass away. And literally going really deep into that and just crushing them. to the point where they're in tears. And, you know, I can't even afford this. You can't afford not to. Like, I mean, I was hard on them and getting a lot of closes. The problem with that was COVID hit me and COVID didn't affect me physically. It snapped something in my brain. And all of a sudden I started having negative thoughts about me losing everything. Nightmares, couldn't sleep. All of a sudden, I started experiencing anxiety at such high levels where I could no longer breathe. And I'm asking God, I'm like, what are you doing? What is actually going on here? And what God was telling me then was that, look, you're always wanting to strap your bootstraps up and tell other people to do the same. Some of these people are suffering through things that you have no idea about. But you're not even taking the time to care about it. So I want you to actually experience what it's like. And I was like, this is what they go through? Like, I felt like I was breathing through a straw every single day.
Yeah.
And then I was getting sleep deprived because my brain would not turn off. So I am suffering. And it got to the point where I literally I did not want to continue on. And if it wasn't for my 2 kids, I probably wouldn't be here. There were so many times I just wanted to let go of the
wheel
and make it look like an accident. My wife and kids would be fine. You know, they'd have life insurance. Obviously, I'm selling life insurance. I should have some. But they would have been taken care of financially, but I would not be around. And if it wasn't for my kids, I probably wouldn't be here today. But God knew exactly what he was doing during that time. You know, it's interesting.
I feel like God is showing you lots of stuff, even with that example. One of the first things that popped up for me is one of the reasons that COVID likely hit so hard was because you lost your community all over again. And there's a, from at least the earlier part of 7 years old and beyond, there was a huge part of me that needed a community. I need people.
Oh, wow.
Like, I need to have people around me. And essentially, these customers are now my new friends. I have lots of new friends. And then during COVID Um, there was a lot of folks that I think really struggled with the fact that they were isolated and, you know, not really allowed to go wherever, whoever. And I think that's why we saw a lot of, um, elevated mental challenges and emotional stability and all that kind of stuff during that season. Um, but for me, it just— it was like, oh, well, it's just because he lost his community. He's back to being alone again. Right. And that— and that aloneness is the, uh, is where the work I think is now being done and has been being done for now for a while. So that's, um, it's interesting to kind of— my brain sees patterns.
Oh yeah,
yeah,
mine sees it in numbers and colors.
Yeah.
And it's, it's pretty crazy. And then, and then I map it onto behaviors.
Yeah.
So,
well, I think I want to, you know, I, I started the show off letting the audience know this was going to be more of a sense of a conversation that we normally, uh, don't have. on the show in the same capacity. A lot of stuff is around integration, and this is still definitely in that wheelhouse, but also around high-capacity leadership and scaling companies and building teams and all this. But what we haven't done— one of the reasons I was excited to do this is what we haven't done is we haven't talked to the heart of the leader. Okay. We haven't talked about the ways in which maybe they're self-medicating, they're unaware of. We haven't talked about the ways or the programs that are driving the patterns that create the feeling of isolation or being misunderstood or the guilt or the shame that comes with walking things out. And again, I think there's so many different patterns that we have as people, um, that a lot of times we can get lost behind the performance,
right?
Like, lost behind— I think one of the things I've put, um, in here that I've heard you say is, um, achievement hid me, it didn't heal me. Achievement hid me, it didn't heal me. And the reason that resonates with me so much is because I see a lot of leaders who are searching for achievement over alignment because they think if they ever achieve enough— by the way, enough is a relative word that never is, right? There's no— there's not an external enoughness out there.
There isn't.
You know, that somehow all of a sudden they're going to feel significant and meaningful.
And for me, I had to learn that from the inside out.
Which brings me to David. Who is David?
David is— oh man, and the name. Oh my goodness. You asked me to look it up in Hebrew and beloved. That's who truly David was.
The beloved. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, over 2,000 people showed up to his memorial. And even though he's had 7 businesses, was the most famous bartender for the Jersey Shore and everybody loved him and everybody wanted to go see him. Nobody came because of that. They literally came because of how much he was loved. And one of the reasons why he was so loved was because David always made people feel seen no matter what. And he was intentional about his relationships. My goodness. One of the stories that I keep hearing over and over again was that, you know, he would always show up whether they Launched a new business, he would— even though there was a rainstorm, he was the only one that was there. Mm-hmm. But he came to show support. Whether it was they were getting married and it was a 2-hour drive away. And even though he had to work a full shift all-nighter because he's a bartender, he showed up for 15 minutes. I was like, ah, I'm not driving 4 hours to show up for 15 minutes. You'll get a really nice present. How's that? But David didn't play that game. He actually showed up. And he actually— and I thought this was a one-off. No, this is practically every other story I hear about him. Mm-hmm. And so David is that kid that's literally everybody's favorite. He was the favorite in our family. And one of the beautiful trajectories of my mom, right? Like, my mom, look, again, loved me like crazy to the best of her ability. She sucked in the beginning. With me, it got really bad because of my addiction. But she started working on herself. For my brother Michael, she got a little bit better, but she kept working on herself. And for my baby brother David, she was amazing. And my baby brother loved her. Mm-hmm. You know, we actually lost my mom in 2017 as well. And this is where grief is now something I really can't understand, because when I lost my mother, it gave me freedom from all the bad messages.
Yeah.
Right? And I know that's really crappy to say, but losing my mother was more of a freedom for me rather than a grief of pain.
Yeah.
Now it hurt. I cried. But nothing like this.
Yeah.
My baby brother has never done me wrong, ever, even though I've done him wrong time and time again growing up. I was a horrible older brother. Now, did I help him on a lot of areas? Sure. But I was a horrible older brother, and he loved me through it.
Yeah.
And so David—
Because he really saw you.
Yeah, he was, he was different. He is different. Like, He's had over 400 girls, right, that he's been with, and literally not a single one hate him.
Wow.
I'm still waiting for the one person to finally raise their hand and go, hey, no, he did— nope, not one. All I hear are constant stories. Oh yeah, I dated David Hien this, this, this time, and ever since he would just always check in, see how I'm doing, see what I'm doing next, not to do anything crazy. Like, yeah, you know what I mean? But to just really check on me.
Yeah.
And this is by hundreds of people.
That's interesting. Last night when we had the conversation around— so David Meltzer is a good friend of mine. Oh, he's become a really good friend. And his mother named him David after the beloved, you know, beloved.
Yeah.
His last name, Meltzer, also has a meaning and it means the beloved servant. So we go from David, servant. Meltzer means servant.
Wow.
And, I love the intentionality sometimes behind names, and I love it when those names translate to Hebrew or even Paleo-Hebrew. Now, I asked you to go a step further last night and discover what Paleo-Hebrew looks like with David. What was the most surprising thing when looking at it from a Paleo-Hebrew perspective, the physical indicator?
Some of the few things that you said to me, some of the few things that God showed me in the midst of losing my baby brother was that he called him home.
Mm-hmm.
And that it was Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
And it was crazy because his name and what I studied yesterday, and I could be wrong, obviously, I just looked it up yesterday for the first time ever, was Door Connection Door. And Christ is that door.
Mm-hmm.
Right? Like the only way. He is the way, the truth, the life. No one gets to the Father except through Him. And He is that final door. So David and this connection that's coming together is— and man, this is, this is going to be even crazier, but I'm not sure we even have time to really unpack this. But when I was going through this whole transition of what God's doing in my life, the number 5 just kept popping up. The number 5 just kept popping up. And I didn't understand what he was trying to show me. But it was either 5 or 50, which you now mentioned you are. Mm-hmm. So the number 5s, and it hit so hard. When I lost my baby brother, because I realized so many people had been looking at my brother. Eyes completely focused on my brother. And David has 5 letters in it.
Interesting.
But everybody has kept their gaze on David, even after the loss of David. I can't even tell you how many times people are messaging me now, even going, oh yeah, David's showing me what I need to do today. David is helping me through my day. I had a really bad day, but David showed up. And it's amazing. And I get that it's amazing. But the truth is, the other 5 letters is actually J-E-S-U-S. And what God showed me was, and what Jesus told me was in this next mission, and this is the connection that's being made, is that a lot of them are going to be looking for answers. And in all the modalities that you've studied, guess what? None of them are going to actually give them everlasting hope. Do they have value? Yes. Will they improve people's lives? Sure. But will they transform from the inside out everything that actually needs freedom? Mm-hmm. No. So as they're gazing, Towards David, your mission is to shift their gaze to me. And I'm like, this is going to be crazy because I used to want everybody to just look at me. And now it's like, no, this has nothing to do with me, even on both ends.
Ah, Here's what we're gonna— we're gonna throw a curveball. So by the— by now the audience understands that your, your, your brother's no longer here on the earth. He passed away. Yeah. Um, they know he's very beloved. They know he impacted lives at scale with every life that he— they know he's very intentional, very loving, very supportive. Um, what they're probably gonna find surprising is that For all the information we have, David took his own life. Yeah. I know, I know that there was not necessarily anger at David, but anger at God for a little while, right? That's now unraveling, and God's doing a miracle in a lot of different ways. And, um, it was funny to share some things last because, you know, my audience knows a little bit that I could— I occasionally could see beyond the veil. Every so often, it's not all the time. And God was showing me very specific things last night, which was very— which was interesting because we were talking, it was like confirming things for you that I would not have known.
There's no way you could have known unless you jumped in my head. And even that's a maze. So
the
fact that you were able to literally pinpoint specifics—
Mm-hmm.
That—
so again, that's, that's the connection to the one that created us both. Um, and one of the things I shared with you last night, my own personal story, there were times where I was like yelling at the top of my lungs at God, you know, at that time, like, put her back. Yeah. Right. You know, sensitive moment in my life. And, um, I'm glad. And hindsight being 20/20, he knows far more about what he's doing than I do. And, um, and so I'm glad, I'm glad he didn't take my advice. Um, but I'm curious, um, you know, I believe it's okay to be angry with God. Like, I believe God's got massive shoulders that when we get to the other side of whatever we're supposed to learn, we learn it well. Right. But when you confess that you were angry with God, what did he say back?
So I was— what I had been angry with God at was the fact that I felt he forsaked my brother, that he didn't meet him there. When he was struggling, when he was crying out for help. Because my brother didn't keep quiet. He raised his hand. He asked for help. He was actually seeing a therapist. He was on medications. He was still trying to do everything that he possibly could. He joined me and my wife for Bible study. He was trying his best to be present as much for the 4 days that we were there, 4 days prior to this happening.
Mm-hmm.
So I was mad at God because I was like, how could you not meet him when, you know, you met me? And there was a lot of that area where I was like, look, if you should have taken—
Do you feel like you held your brother on a pedestal?
No, not even on a pedestal.
Okay.
Not even on a pedestal. Not at all. Because I saw the flaws.
Yeah.
I saw the flaws. Yeah. I'm not much for holding anyone on a pedestal. The only person I've ever held on a pedestal was myself for way too long too.
Yeah.
But no, I don't really hold much people onto a pedestal. I honor them for their gifts, for the blessings that they provide for others. But I don't have that.
Yeah.
So no, with my brother, it was more like, how could you take him? And I was the worst one in the family. I was like, you should have taken me. Obviously grief hits where you could say some really dumb things like that. And that was one of those things that I was actually feeling. And so I was just like—
All children throw temper tantrums.
Oh yeah. And I'm one of the biggest kids. But with what happened with him, I— literally, truly believed that he was going to make it out of this because he was reaching out to me and I was sharing with him modalities, by the way.
Yeah.
And things that he could do to improve. I didn't realize the ramifications behind mental illness. I didn't understand it. There was no prefrontal cortex happening here. There was no, hey, make good decisions. There wasn't even a cognitive response to anything that I was actually sharing with him. He was in full-blown survival mode, sleep deprived. Averaging an hour and a half or 2 hours of sleep every night. This wasn't something that I had capacity to handle. And so obviously that hit hard as heck too, because I was like, how are you supposed to help people and you couldn't even help your baby brother?
Yeah.
So I was mad at God in all directions. And it took about a week before God met me and was like, I never forsaked your brother. I actually called him home. And that picture that you told me where you said Jesus welcomed him personally, that's literally what I saw. So it wasn't even one of those where, like you said, it wasn't him, you know, walking, going through a tunnel, walking through anything. It was literally God, Jesus meeting him is the vision that Jesus gave me.
Mm-hmm.
So when you said that, And bold enough to just come out your face at dinner and say that.
That's what I saw.
That's what I mean. But like, here's the craziest thing, right? Like, they take such a level of both humility and authority to be— hence, one part lion, one part lamb. I guess this is like all coming together, but to be able to speak speak that so boldly?
You
know, because you could be out your mind.
Could be.
Yeah. But I
have enough evidence to show that it's not the case.
It's been that case.
Yeah. No, I— one of the reasons that— and, and look, I've, I've, I've had friends and family tell me about people who have been, um, who've made those decisions and I get different hits, different instances, different things around that. This was incredibly strong, one. And two, we don't have time to go into it on the show today, but I tied it. I did my best to tie it together. What the purpose behind it all, right? To me, it's no secret that this has now become Something that you're studying, you know. So we, we talked today, um, and this is what— this— you guys are just like having it, having it with us at dinner right now kind of thing. Um, but you know, one of the things that, um, I challenged you with or invited you into last night was the What I Hear You Say journaling practice.
Yeah.
I'm curious what that first journaling practice was like for you. You don't have to give me the specifics in it, but I'm just curious what it meant.
Oh, it was absolutely powerful. And one of the things that really stepped in was, hey, stop trying to rationalize any of it. Just write it down.
Yeah.
Just write it down.
Do you ever heard of the term what rationalize really means?
No. Hit me. Let's go.
You're trying to make lies rational.
Oh, I love words too. I like that.
Yeah, it's rational lies. It's when the ego gets in the way of the heart. So it's why we can come up with excuse after excuse after, well, if they did that, if I'd have done that, and they didn't, it's their fault. It's like we try to rational our way. We try to use the ego, the mind to make a lie true so it makes us feel better. It makes us feel safer. Even though it actually is destructive. Rational lies.
I like that. I used to say one like this where it's real eyes can realize when real lies. And it's the word realize all in one. And that is trying to make lies rational. I love that. I'm putting that in my toolbox.
That's awesome.
Thank you very much.
Yeah. Well, the other, the other thing that's— and I know you had a powerful moment out there, like by the dock, minus a couple of the spiders. I apologize about that. I'll get out there and clean that today. But in doing so, one of the things I kind of wanted to put in your awareness is I feel like you're going to give a frame of reference or a starting point or even a formula, if you will, of what it means to grieve well. Because as we were talking in the car last night, sometimes grief can be months, or it could be decades.
Right.
And the only difference is, is how much the person is willing to lean into the healing in the grief process, because we're all going to go through grief, right? My grandmother that raised me passed away from cancer. I spent my entire 40-plus years trying to rescue her by rescuing other people. You see what I'm saying? So everything— there's so much always interconnected. And, you know, as we look at these different layers and these different things, Um, you know, it's really interesting to kind of watch things take shape, but I'm curious. I know we did, uh, I told you that I feel like, and this may not be happening fully yet, but I feel like God is going to give you a formula for that. And I'm curious, um, in the, the one that we drafted a little bit together this morning, um, for the acronym GRIEF, how much of that has resonated so far?
All of it.
Okay.
All of it. And That's the thing, right? What I'm realizing is as I am stepping into this calling that God is giving me, he's actually providing all of the resources. And I'm not just talking monetarily. Yeah. I'm not just talking about all the things that we think we need to do in a survival mode factor. I'm talking about every person that I come in contact with. That blesses me with new wisdom, new knowledge, new insight. I'm talking about every person that is now volunteering to become a resource for this. And then even being in this place of just like receiving so much. Remember the whole not worthy thing? Mm-hmm. It's like, okay, I'm in a state of gratitude now that's just overpouring. It's unbelievable. The amount of grace, the amount of resources that are being poured towards me. And this calling that God has put in my life, I have no clue what the tail end of this is going to look like. That's
a beautiful thing.
All I know— yeah, it is really beautiful because he is literally meeting me on a Every single day basis. You have no idea. Like, well, that probably— that's a silly phrase. You have very much idea. Some of the people out there listening have no idea how insane level it can actually get when you walk in a path that God has for you.
In a beautiful way. Yep.
It is unbelievable.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter how much wilderness it is that he's bringing me through. He meets me.
Yeah.
Every moment of it.
Yeah.
And it's in blessings. It's in insight. It's in comfort. It's in, it's in everything that we normally think that we need to go after too. To grab it.
Yeah. Um, do you have your, your device with you, your phone or anything with you?
I do.
Awesome. Um, the reason is, is I'd like for you to— while this will tell the audience in full that this formula, the frame of reference, is a work in progress, um, but I'd love for you to share which each of the letters currently stand for as you're navigating, uh, creating the formula. Because— and if you want to expound upon each letter, feel free to. And the reason is, is because I feel like there's, there's hidden wisdom in there that the audience is going to
I would love to. This is phenomenal. So, and it's crazy because when you were asking me to put this together yesterday, you said it would come to me. And I love how you tied it all together and then brought it to me because it really, really came perfectly. And—
And I just— all I did for the reference is I used your material and your words. And just—
wow. Yeah, it's crazy because this is literally what's been coming together. But the first one is G on grief, right? And it's ground yourself first. It says, get your feet under you before you look for meaning. Daily non-negotiables: sleep, movement, prayer, one honest conversation. Survival mode shuts the thinking brain off. So structure becomes before answers. Just in that alone, I can't even tell you how insane that mapping has been for exactly what's going on in life. Like I told you, I spend 60 to 90 to an hour and a half to 2 hours. I mean, in the morning, just with my wife, just talking.
Yeah.
Then we spend it in the Bible and in prayer. And our kids jump in the middle of this, and it's beautiful when they do. Sometimes they just sit in color on the sideline listening to our conversation. Sometimes they jump all over us. We accept either.
Yeah.
Right? Like, and so that, and then we spend time in these non-negotiables. We go into prayer. Then we go into the gym as a family. Now that they're going to school, it's going to be a little bit different,
but
We go into Lifetime Fitness as a family. You know, they got the childcare and me and my wife get our workout in. This is before we start anything in a day. And this is such a stark difference from when I was in the car business working 60 to 80 hours a week, trying to control the outcomes of my life. And I would have to leave everyone at 7 in the morning. Yeah.
Just moving your body first thing in the morning creates elevated levels of neuroplasticity. So you don't know this, but I had a suicide attempt.
Oh, geez.
A number of years ago. It's been a long time. And one of the ways that I began to recover my mind and my soul first was I got my body moving. A lot of us who struggle with depressive states, we go into freeze mode, so the body doesn't want to move. And that's where will has to take over. And then once the body is moving, the neurotransmitters in the brain start firing synaptically at a deeper level. So I love the fact that it's got movement as part of the G, because grounding— we talked about this when we first got back, right? It's like walking on the grass.
Yeah, I actually went out there. Yeah, it's a gorgeous view.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I actually, I actually love doing grounding Especially now that I'm near water, because in Colorado it's just mountains and phenomenal grounding in the grass and the dirt. But man, on the beach with the current and the ocean, it's unbelievable. I can feel it.
Yeah, well, but the different types of water have different types of ionization, so they feel differently. So the lake is typically about surrender and serenity. Ocean water is typically about rebirth because it's constantly rebirthing the shore. Oh,
I love that.
Right? So this is the kind of weird rabbit holes I like to go down, but I love it. I like to piece it all together. But when I'm thinking about grief and I'm thinking about, okay, well, grief comes in many forms. There's an element that your brother was walking through where he had grief about something, and maybe it never got fully unpacked until obviously it's been fully unpacked now. Right. But so now we're giving a frame of reference of not just how to grieve somebody, you know, something meaningful that you've lost or you feel like you've lost, but also if you're in the moment where you're struggling through something right now, there's a— now there's going to be a frame. So it's hitting 2 fronts at the same time. Right. What'd you come up with for the R?
R is the raising of the hand. And the truth is, this is actually not mine. Right. Greg Kimball brought this for me. And that's the one that says, hey, we all have 2 hands, right? You can raise your hand. This one's saying, hey, I can help, which that one I'm really good at. And the other one's saying, I need help. But that one takes a level of vulnerability that, look, I'm asking everybody, please step into, please step into raising your hand and be willing to ask for
help. Yeah. And one Caveat or bolt onto that. If you are actually doing the asking and you have yet to receive, keep asking. If you're not getting assistance here, go here. Yeah. Find someone who's mature, who's healthy, and all the things. We're going to put just the suicide prevention hotline in the show notes as well for everybody. And just in case there is somebody watching today that's who's walking through a difficult time, but keep asking. One thing I'll share with my own personal life, in the suicide— what would've been the suicide attempt, that Mama Wama, my oldest heard about this before, gave me 11 words, this too shall pass, and what comes next will be greater. Okay? When she helped me get off the bridge, if you will, and just onto my next day, it wasn't like— not like my life got solved in moments or minutes, right?
Right.
I could have not have fathomed where I was in my life then versus where I'm at in my life now and what has transpired and taken place. So one of the lies that we believe in those moments is that the day that we're experiencing in that moment will be the day we live for the rest of our lives, which is why it's so difficult to want to be part of that. The reality is that is a gateway, a door, something you have to walk through. My friend Dee that I shared with you from dinner told me one time, there's a cost to every calling. In some places you can't go without going through this door. And those doors are purges, purging, right? They refine you. They show you what you don't want, which is why they're so painful, because it forces you to look at things you've probably been ignoring. Right? So what was the— I know. So raise the hand. What was the description with the R?
On the R, it says, we all carry 2 hands. One says, I can help. The other says, I need help. Grief is where you find out. You have only ever raised one. Mm-hmm.
Now, what's the next letter?
I. This is where inviting someone in, right? Raising your hand is a moment. Inviting is access. Give one person the whole truth, not the version of you that— not the version you give everybody else. Then turn around and be that person for somebody else, because mental illness is an illness, not a choice. And nobody gets through it from the outside. See, here's, here's the thing with the invitation, right? A lot of people, again, including myself at times, didn't feel worthy of ever being invited. Mm-hmm. So I love the switch on it is be that For somebody else now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And it's so crazy that you're— we're literally reading through this right now. The last video that I just recorded downstairs before coming up here was begging somebody to please push through the thoughts of, what am I going to think? I can't tell you how many messages I get that are so long overdue. I've been wanting to reach out to you for so long, but I didn't know how to, didn't know what you would think, didn't know if you were too busy. I'm pleading to them, drop that.
Yeah.
If you're struggling, call me now. Reach out to me now. Yeah. If you don't want to leave it on a comment, DM me privately. If you're not comfortable with that, just reach out to me. And I've literally been responding to every single message.
That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool.
Yeah. It's very different.
Yeah, it is. But it's connection. Again, that's That's what is happening right now. How about your F?
E first. E.
I'm sorry, E.
Business don't want it.
See, I'm dyslexic, guys.
Well, no, no, no, no, no. This is funny that you say this because E is the part that I've been missing. It's literally the thing that I've been working on for the last 5, 6 years and could not figure out. Right? I'm trying to figure out all the modalities on how to care more. And we were even talking about how God even put me through a season where I was struggling with anxiety so that I could learn empathy.
Yeah,
right. And I didn't until my brother. And that is probably one of the hardest lessons I've ever had to learn in the hardest way that I could have learned it.
Yeah. Unfortunately, empathy is only learned by experience. Yeah.
It's not something that I think I could have been taught any other way. There wasn't a conceptual aspect to it. And even my own experience of it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough because he brought me back out of it.
Yeah.
And I came out of it super strong. So there wasn't—
Well, the couple of bits we got left, what'd you come up with with F? What's
F? Forward on purpose. This one's great. Bitter, battered, or better? Better is the only road that lets you keep moving and take someone with you. Your pain does not have to be wasted.
Yeah. You know, I told you in the car, one of the things I used to share from stage a lot, and it's why I do what I do— like, I don't have to do anything in this thought leadership world or books and writing and speaking— is because I discovered a long time ago the greatest purpose in life you'll ever have is serving the person you used to be, right? So all the different layers, right? Myself at 12, 18, 20, 25, 30, 45 are all different versions of me, right? And all the different experiences I've had can eliminate pain at an earlier level for someone else.
Nice.
You know, so
I love that.
Yeah. Well, as we wrap up, let's tell me where— but tell me more about the Don't Quit Legacy Foundation. Where can people find out more about you? Learn more about what you're working on. And one of the things I actually think you're doing that nobody else is doing right now that I can think of is you're actually taking people on the journey of learning to grieve well. Right. So that's really, really powerful.
Right. And that's, again, that took a level of vulnerability because I don't want to cry on a camera. I want to look tough as heck.
Yeah.
Right. Like, I want to look strong. Yeah. This isn't one of those things where I need to posture anymore, and I don't want to.
Yeah.
I'm tired of it. I realized again, this is not something that I can carry, and I don't want to have to carry it alone. And I know there's so many other people out there that are probably feeling the same way that really need somebody to say, hey, listen.
Yeah.
We don't have to do this alone.
Yeah.
And so you can find us at Don't Quit Legacy. That's on Instagram. You can find us at dqlegacyfoundation.org or don'tquitlegacyfoundation.org, even though that one's super long. And yeah, learn more about what we're doing. Join what we're doing, like, you know, support. We're going to be providing a lot of resources for people who are struggling with mental illness. We're going to be creating a lot of events. to bring people together.
Yeah.
So that they don't have to walk this out alone.
Well, dude, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show. One, especially doing so while you're in the mid— the messy middle. We don't get to— we don't do that a lot, especially on content creation. Most of us are either at a very early stage or we've been through the transformation and we've learned the lesson. We got to give back. There's a certain level of vulnerability and bravery and courageousness that has to happen to showcase the messy middle. Yeah. I am super grateful for that, bro.
Thank you for having me.
Anytime.
Thanks, man.
Okay guys, that's gonna do it for this episode of One Part Lion, One Part Lamb. Um, you know, I told you guys at the very beginning of the episode that this would be a little bit different than we're accustomed to, and there'll be some sensitive topics covered in there. Um, but hey, look, they're truth. It's truthful topics.
It's honesty. It's, it's real. And one of the things we want to be is more real, more relatable on a continual basis. So I know Someone in your heart probably popped in your head. I want to invite you to share this episode with them and let us know. Let us know kind of where you're at and maybe some help. We'll also go ahead and put some of the core links in there, so the suicide prevention hotline and things of that nature, in the show notes as well, as well as ways to connect with Bernard moving forward. I'm excited to see what he's building next. I've got a sneak peek about what's behind the scenes and stuff. Definitely be a bit more of a movement maker kind of thing. So I'm excited about it. But until then, please like, share, subscribe, give us a 5-star ranking on all the audio platforms and comments. We could really use that to help grow the show and grow the impact we're trying to make. But until then, just know you're loved, you're appreciated, and we can't, we can't thank you enough for joining us on One Part Lion, One Part Lamb. God bless. Take care. Peace.
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