DO THIS To Go From Lost, Lazy & Stuck To ULTRA SUCCESSFUL! | Ken Davenport

Now comes the moment. And this is what differentiates successful people from something happens to you, what the f do you do then?

What is the number one tactic that you've. That you've personally used to kind of get unstuck in times like Covid and even before?

That's a really good question. And I think it's the thing that I constantly do, is always keep moving, is I'm trying to do something. No matter what that is, I'm trying. If the current is pushing me one way, then, okay, I'm not just going to sit there and let it move me around. I'm going to swim in one direction or another. And sometimes that's going with it, and sometimes that's going sideways or something that's fighting against. But I never stop. I never stop moving. I think that's key. A lot of people would say that's the key to a long life, right, Is just constantly keep walking, keep active. And I think for entrepreneurs, you can never just let the wind blow you wherever it's blowing. You have to be active. You have to be thinking about how you can adapt to whatever environment you're in.

Well, and I think that's such a good concept, too, because, you know, sometimes it's so difficult to take that next step just because you are uncertain about where that step will take you on a consistent basis. Call it walking in faith, call it whatever you want to call it, but, you know, how are you able to protect yourself against, you know, times like that as well? I mean, you know, because taking the next step is sometimes easy to say, so to speak. But how have you actually applied it?

Well, look, there's no question, especially in extreme states of crisis like we've all been in over the past year, year and a half, that fear paralyzes us from taking that next step. The good news is that, you know, I think the more I do it and the more times, frankly, I've fallen down or been through difficult times, and the more times I've gotten up and realized, oh, I've been through something difficult before, just realize that, like, you know what? I'm going to take this step, because what's the worst that's going to happen? And frankly, what I've been telling everybody in my space and in every space is like, hey, everybody out there, guess what? You just survived a effing pandemic.

Pandemic.

You just got through one of the most cataclysmic events we have seen in modern times. If you can survive that, you can get through anything. And you're not only going to survive, you're going to thrive when you start to really realize that, wow, I made it through, and nothing can stop you now.

I love it. I love it. Well, you know, culture is shifted so much by the types of media we consume. And I know that you've had a very successful career in Broadway, very wonderful productions. How did you find yourself in the Broadway field? What led you down that pathway?

Like most people in theater or the arts, or like most people in anything, Like, I'm a big golfer, right. Most people start playing golf because their mom, dad, grandpa, grandma dragged them on a golf course when they were 2, 3 years old and said, watch me hit balls.

Yeah.

So I got involved in the theater because my parents were very involved in the local theater, and they dragged me to an audition when I was 5 years old and put me on stage, and I liked it.

Wow.

And that's usually how people are brought into any world. As a child, you're exposed to it. And it's one thing I'm big about, developing the next audience for the theater. And I'm constantly telling every single parent out there, just bring your kid to one show, one musical, even if it's a Disney musical, just bring them. And if they like it, support that, support that. But that's how we grow not only participants in the arts, but also supporters of the arts and audiences for the artist.

Well, you know, there's a lot of various talent needs in putting on a production. There's obviously, you've got actors, actresses, you've got writers, you've got the folks that obviously do the music. How did you. I mean, so how did you find yourself kind of wanting to kind of orchestrate the entire organization? I guess is the best way to say it. Did you have one of those traits maybe, that you kind of gravitated towards? Naturally, that was kind of a unique skill set or a specific skill set?

Well, that's a really good question because I wear a lot of different hats, Right. So I'm a writer, I'm a producer. I do a lot of different things. And like most entrepreneurs, I call myself an entrepreneur. Like, I'm an. I think all entrepreneurs are very creative. Like, you know, I think Steve Jobs is an artist. Like, he's an artist.

Oh, absolutely.

He saw something that other people couldn't see, and he made it.

Yeah.

In the same way that a painter would paint something. He just did his in tech, and frankly, he couldn't even do the technology part as well as other people.

That's why? He had Woz. Right? That's right.

So the same thing with me, you know, at the beginning of my career, I would envision something, I would see an idea, and frankly, I didn't have a network of people or didn't know who to write. So I did what most entrepreneurs do. Like, I just did it myself. Yeah, I just, you know, my first show, I created myself, I wrote it, I directed it, I produced it, I managed it, I ran the box office. You know, I. A lot of people think building a show or a theater company is different than other companies. It's actually the same thing. I call myself a serial startup guy. I start up new shows. Every new show I do is a startup. And especially at the beginning of my career when I had no money and I was on unemployment and I was working out of my apartment just like the Google guys were working out of their garage or, you know, like all that stuff. It's the same thing. And so at the beginning, I just did it all. And now there are some shows I write, there are some shows I don't. You know, as I grow and as I keep doing other things, I have different networks that allow me different connections now. Do you.

So, you know, in regards to the. To the industry, there are typically a lot of folks who are aspiring to get into Broadway productions or any entertainment industry for that matter. How does someone know.

Basically what role they should be playing in such a thing? Like, you know, search of direction. Maybe they should be in the music side or dance side or producer side or director side.

So this is something that I've. I've really taken as part of my mission, frankly, because when I started as what I call a theater maker, right, like, that's what I believe I am. I just make theater. Call me a producer, call me director, call me whatever you want to call me. I make theater. When I started out wanting to do this, I tried to find all sorts of information, places on how to produce theater. I just couldn't find it, you know, and this was back in 19 something. So it was a while ago, before the Internet really existed.

I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that same technique next time speaking somewhere.

Yeah, I stole it from somebody else too. So it's the old mumble age.

I couldn't find anything. So I made a. Like, I vowed, I said, the moment I achieve some level of success, I crack some of the safe. Like I'm constantly trying to crack bigger and bigger safes, right?

Yeah.

So. But the moment I try to Figure this out. I'm gonna start to share it with people. And in 2008, I believe it was, or seven, I started a blog, like, back when blogs were just starting. And that was the first thing I did to just start to put out information about what is. I had some successes, like what life is like behind the curtain, how the sausage is made. Broadway theater. We historically have not shown a lot of how we do what we do. I started a blog, I started a podcast, and I eventually started something called the Theater Maker Studio, which is about providing people with information on how to make theater. Because there isn't. There just hasn't been a lot of resources. And the biggest lesson I give to people, you know, which is not uncommon in any industry, is about, of course, taking action. Taking that next step that we've talked about, and especially in the theater, is just, you know, my favorite quote is, I often say, you know, theater is not brain surgery.

Right.

No one is going to live or die by what we do. Like, my dad was a doctor. I chose not to be a doctor. I chose not to have to deal with what he dealt with. I just make theater. And you can. The worst that's gonna happen if you write a show and you put it up for five people or 500 or 5,000, is that people don't like it.

Big deal.

Especially now. Again, you just survived a pandemic, so who cares if a critic doesn't like it? So it's about taking action and putting your work up there and out there.

Yeah.

Because only then can you really get better.

Yeah, that's very true.

People's first anything is rarely their best.

Yeah, right. That's very true.

You can, like, think about your first podcast. You probably, if you.

Know it's the first anything, your first step, your first word. Like, but as kids, when we take those steps, or we don't care if we fall down, we don't care if we mumble, we don't care about any of that stuff. Remembering that as an adult, oh, I'm going to start some 45 years old, and I'm going to start writing plays. Oh, I'm so scared. Start writing now. Get the first one out of the way. Get the second one out of the way, because the third one is really where you're going to start to feel your groove, find your voice. And, you know, the best example I can use is that Hamilton was not Lin Manuel Miranda's first show.

Yeah, yeah.

Same with Shakespeare. Same with any of these great writers throughout history or great anything throughout history. Yeah, there are always failures or mediocre successes before the big one.

Yeah, I mean, I actually love that because, you know, one of the things that I personally do when I'm about to write a new book, or even blogs, for that matter, is, you know, there's this old term writer's block, right? You can get writer's block. You can't write anything. You're staring at a blank page. I've been there, done that, and have a T shirt on more than one occasion. But what I forced myself to do is just to write something. I might even write, I'm really thirsty for a cup of coffee or, you know, I just start writing something. It takes me about five or 10 minutes, and all of a sudden I can just start kind of getting into something. And maybe it's not my best work, but it's on the paper. And then I could delete all the garbage that, you know, that just got me going. Do you find that as being as a good tool or something along those lines to also to kind of defeat writer's block?

Oh, yeah. I mean, first, my favorite quote, I think it was Seth Godin who said, you know, plumbers don't get plumber's block.

They just do the work. And, you know, it's important to think of a writer as that. Like, it's just you show up. Like, I write the same time every morning. I show up. That's what I do. I write. Good or bad, it doesn't matter. Something is gonna come out. And what you just described, I love. And it's something that I talk about in my book. I wrote a book called how to Succeed in the Arts or in Anything. And what I talk a lot about is its physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. So the moment you start to put the pen to paper, the keys to the keyboard, you've started moving again to go back to the beginning. And what will seem to be the theme of this? You've started movement. You started moving. And the mind and the body will just follow as a result. And it may not be your best work. Hemingway said the first draft of everything is shit.

That's what he said.

The first draft of everything. Like, you gotta get through the first draft. I call them vomit drafts.

Yeah.

Like when I start a play or a musical, I just try to puke up something on paper that has a beginning, a middle, and an end. I know two things. In fact, I'm staring at one right here. First sloppy draft right here of a new screenplay. I know two things about this screenplay. Number one, it's not very good. Number two, it will get better.

Yeah, that's what I know.

Once I've gotten that first draft out.

Well, when you look at that, I mean, I think that's also like an analogy for life, too, is like, you know, I wouldn't say that I've stumbled my way into opportunities. I would say that I have found opportunities along the way or met the right relationships or had people, you know, And I know one of the things that one of the roles you play a lot of times is fundraising. Having a fundraise for the various projects, stuff like that. And I would assume the first two or three times doing that, it probably wasn't super awesome. And then you began to meeting, you know, newer and newer people and maybe even having some people that you're like. You just build a great relationship with. You're like, hey, I got a new thing. They're like, all right, I'm in. You know, kind of thing. How have you seen the world of theater kind of reflect the world of life?

Look, the one thing I've learned is that every industry, every. It's all the same. And so much of it is based on relationships. You know, when you talk about fundraising, specifically, my first mentor, specifically about fundraising, you know, he said, I pitched him a project. I was so prepared. I was ready to go. I did about 30 minutes. He stopped me in the middle of the pitch and said, I'm gonna write you a check for $25,000. And I was like, amazing. And then he said, but I don't think this project is gonna work. And I was like, what? And I called, like, a timeout. Cause he was a mentor. I was like, you gotta tell me, then why are you doing this? He said, because I don't invest in projects. I invest in people.

And look, he did that for two reasons. One, he was a mentor, former employer of mine. Like, he wanted to support me, he.

Wanted to help me.

I was a friend. Yeah, but also, he wasn't an idiot. He saw the passion in me, and he was like, this one may not work, but this guy is going to do something that does. And I want to make sure I'm on his speed dial when he does. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. And I look, here's a great. For anyone out there raising money, every time I raise now over, like, $50 million over the course of my career and have another 50 to go over the next five years or so, it's that bigger, safe.

Every time I do It I do a little post mortem, I finish my round and I look back and say, where did my money come from? Where did it come from? So I can use that information for the next time.

The answer is always the same. The money, the majority of the money comes from the people that I've spent the most time with.

Wow.

That simple. Whether they are friends that have developed into real personal and professional relationships where they started professionally and then they became personally. Whether they're people I've met on the golf course and it's four hours and four hours and four hours, or I went to things that they wanted me to go to, come see my kid dance that, come see my theater, like that's what it's all about. And so you talk about theater and life or my business as opposed to like, relationships are the key. And I came to that slow that that took me a while. And I think for a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are like a little bit introverted, who are like, I want to solve the problem myself, just staring at a computer, you got to get out from. And now it's going to be more important than ever. Get away from your screen, get back to the in person stuff, get vaccinated, and get back to the in person stuff so that you can actually achieve success faster. Because I would be further in my career had I paid more attention to developing relationships earlier in my career.

Yeah, well, that's such an important realization because I'd never made a direct correlation between the quantity of time and the quality or quantity of trust. But if you think about it, you trust those that have given you illustrations over and over and over again that they are trustworthy. Right. And the ones that aren't trustworthy, you also figure that out by spending more time with them. So it seems like it's the quickest way to figure out who is in your circle and who shouldn't be in your circle. That's right.

And I love what you just said because part of it, and especially raising money or trying to get anything off the ground, realizing who you shouldn't be in your circle is a big thing. And actually being able to say, no, I don't want your check for half a million dollars because you're not the right type of person for my circle.

And that's hard. Or you're not the right person for my team or whatever it is. But the more you do it, the more you realize, oh, here are the group of people that are going to be best for my business and my life. And here are the people that I should keep out because it's just going to be complicated, they're going to bring me down, whatever that is.

You know, I love that because I think that's a really good way of making sure that their interests are not only aligned with character traits, but also with passion. I assume that people that invest in theater enjoy theater. They enjoy what their experience is within theater. They've had the moving experience. They've had the moments where they're laughing and they're so much that they can't stop and they've had the moments where they can't stop crying and they're rooting for a hero or a muse in the whole project. What are some of the things that you love most about theater? In other words, what are you hoping to create legacy wise with the world through theater?

I don't believe there's any more powerful medium of storytelling than live and in person. And it just goes to. We were just talking about how live meetings are like the way really to get things done. I just think when you have a message to be told, it's better live. And what I love about the theater is that it's a non realistic art form. It leaves something to your imagination. So we don't put an actual, like we had a play or musical set on an Air Force base. You don't see the actual Air Force base. There's going to be pieces of it and we're going to let some go to your imagination. It's a heightened form of reality. Musicals, which I specialize in, there's an element of fantasy there. Right. Because people don't burst out into song when you're walking down the street. That's not what happens in a real world. And I just like that imaginary heightened place where it takes you to another world and then you can walk away from that world learning something, moved, inspired. And I just think there's nothing better. So I, you know, I. My real mission from the shows that I do is to entertain, educate and inspire. Those three things are the words that actually everything in my life that I try to do, educate and inspire.

It's interesting, I had this image of paint by numbers pop up in my head as you were describing that. And I'm thinking to myself, it's a framework. And then each person gets to add their own individual colors and, and feelings and thoughts. And that is. That is a really cool aspect that I have never really thought about. I've had the pleasure of watching now two theatrical events not in New York yet. So I've got to get up your way and watch one on Broadway. But down here in the Raleigh Civic center, they did Lion King, which I thought was pretty phenomenal. And we did. We watched. Was it Wiccan? I think it was Wiccan. I think it was wicked.

Wicked, yeah.

Wicked, yeah. And both of those, you know, I went. I have to be honest, I'm supposed to be the macho guy, right? So. But the very first one I went to, I kind of went kicking and screaming. It got in about 10 minutes. 10 minutes of the production. Like, this is freaking awesome, right? And my. Because my wife loves musicals and she loves theater and things of that nature, she was actually really excited about this particular interview and conversation and, you know, and I don't know, man, it's just been really interesting. I love hearing people's thoughts on the very thing that they're most passionate about and how they discovered that passion and how that passion morphs over time into purpose and. And how purpose morphs into time into legacy. I just love how things kind of come together as I guess that kind of happens on a regular basis. So. What? Go ahead. Sorry.

Yeah, I think I'm going to answer. I know where you're going with this, and I've been doing a lot of thinking about it, which is why I interrupted you, which is.

As I look back over the shows that I've done and I start to look ahead at the shows I'm about to do, I've already seen a theme and a trend, and, you know, I'm a huge fan of shows about ordinary people doing extraordinary things, underdogs coming up from whatever world that they were in and making themselves great at something, like learning, working their tail off and becoming great at something. And that's the type of. You know, first of all, that's who I was as a. I was this nerdy little Indian kid, actually from suburban Massachusetts that didn't fit in anywhere, and.

I had to work harder. It felt like, to me, I wasn't the natural athlete. I was a very good student, but I wasn't the best student. I just felt I had to do a little bit more. But when I did more, I got more. And that, to me, has translated to my work. And some of the shows that I'm working on right now, I'm doing a musical based on Joy Mangano, who was the subject of the movie Joy, the QVC Queen, who. You know, the Jennifer Lawrence movie. Single mom, mother. You know, mother of two. She raised her kids in Long island and invented a mop and then figured out how to make the mop, build the mop and sell the mop herself. Extraordinary. I'm doing a musical based on Neil diamond, you know.

Okay, that's cool.

Very introverted Jewish kid from Brooklyn who found a guitar and, you know, sang his way out of Brooklyn and of the where he lived and into, you know, one of the biggest superstars in the world.

Yeah.

So it's those types of stories that I'm so attracted to and that I love that. Again, that's the inspire part.

Right.

Because I think it tells people all over that, like, wow, if I apply myself, if I work really hard, if I'm super passionate at this thing, singing, inventing mops, or even writing plays or musicals, I can achieve great things no matter where I came from, just by putting in the time and putting in the passion.

So no matter what you've been through, no matter where you're at, there's always possibility.

Yeah, I'm working. The screenplay that I just talked about is I got the rights to a true story about a guy who, named Dan McLaughlin who discovered Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule, where it's like, you know, 10,000 hours to greatness. He had never picked up a golf club before and he decided he was going to dedicate 10,000 hours to becoming a pro golfer to test the theory. So that to me is like exactly the type of thing that I'm attracted a guy like ordinary guy, not that athletic. I've become passionate about this thing. I'm going to work 10,000 hours, five plus years with the goal of becoming a professional golfer. And the question in the movie, of course, is like, what happens at the end and how does he change along the way and what's the real desire? So those are the types of stories that I want to pass on to other people and hopefully entertain, educate and inspire.

Well, that resonates with me quite a bit. I'm not sure if you had a chance to read up on me whatsoever, but my life has been crazy myself.

I've heard.

Yeah. So from homelessness to where I'm at today is pretty phenomenal. A lot of crushings along the way, a lot of sufferings, you know. So when you set out to write a good story and you set up take someone's life story, like a Neil diamond or any one of the folks, when you go to begin to do that, how do you uncover the most pivotal heartbeats of the story? You know, because, you know, you take, you know, in my case, 22 years from a Time of sleeping outside to where I'm at today. There's a lot of different things in that, in that, in that pipeline. How do you determine what are the heartbeats of the story that need to be told to kind of really, kind of really tell the story?

That's a really good question. And all these shows are different. So like I'm writing Joy the musical joy. Anthony McCarten, four time Academy Award nominee is writing Neil Diamond. And every writer has their own way of digging into the story. And for me and Anthony, I know it's like two parts. There's like a research part of it. There's like I'm going to Google everything I can find about this person. I'm going to read books, I'm going to. And then frankly, it's just like in person interviews. It's like that thing, me talking to Joy, me talking to Dan the golfer to really get into it. And what I look for. There was an old game show called this Is yous Life.

Okay.

And you know, it was a 30 minute show where they like put someone on the, in a chair and said, okay, here's the next voice. And you would hear a voice and they would describe a moment in the person's life and they would go, oh my gosh, it's my kindergarten teacher. Da da, da. And they would only have time to do three or four. And what I try to think about when I, when I create these shows or produce these shows is like, what are the moments in the person's life that would be featured on this Is yous Life? If we only have a certain amount of time, what are the pivotal moments that change that person's destiny that made them. Oh my gosh, I'm not going left, I'm going right. Oh my gosh, I'm going to now do something different and focus on those. And those become the tent poles, if you will, of the story and then you connect the dots.

That's so interesting to me because, you know, we on the life mastery side of things, the things that I try to encourage and help people with nowadays, we're always talking about something called the cornerstone moment. Bad or good. It's the moment that it's a door you walk through and you can't walk back through the door. Parents, divorce, birth of a child, death of a child. Marriage, divorce. I guess I've already said divorce. A start of a business, failure of a business.

Gosh, any number of different things. 50th birthday. If those things had massive meaningful attributes and the person can Never walk through that door again. That's so interesting you mentioned that, because I can totally directly overlay that with life in general. Because when we look at the cornerstone moments, we're breaking them down to go backwards, to say, hey, what can we uncover or understand from this that is so interesting and cool.

Well, listen, I'll take it to another level, which is in the story structure that we would apply to a script. And this goes to Joseph Campbell, like Hero's Journey theory or the monomyth or any of it, or the screenplay theory. There is this moment in the first 20 pages or so that we call the inciting incident or that Campbell would have called the call to adventure. Like that moment, a cornerstone moment. And usually it's precipitated by an event that happens to the hero that they don't control. A 50th birthday is going to happen. Your parents divorce, you don't have anything to. It happens to you. Now comes the moment. And this is what differentiates successful people from non. Something happens to you. What the f do you do then?

Yeah.

Do you say, like, seize that moment, Seize that day, and I'm gonna take this thing and it's gonna propel me to action, to go forward to achieve the things. Or do you not. Do you stay still? And in stories like in Joy, for example, Joy had a moment. You know, a mop broke.

She didn't break it. It broke like she was wringing the thing out and she cut her hands. Something happened to her, and she saw something that she could create, and she had a choice. Create it or not. Change her life or not. Yeah, and story and life, it's the same thing. We all have those cornerstone moments. We all have those moments where the mop is broken in our hands and cut our. Cut our hands, and we can decide what we're going to do next or not. The cool thing about for the life mastery part, as opposed to a movie which is 90 minutes or two hours, and then it's over. These cornerstone moments can happen all the time. We have the ability to take, hey, my coffee was late, or I spilled my coffee. You could take that as a cornerstone.

Moment if you want.

Whatever you want. Like, they can happen all the time. So you can reinvent your life at any moment that you decide to do so.

Yeah, but, you know, I guess by placing a certain level of meaning upon it. You know, I like the fact that one of the things that popped in my head when you were talking about the mop was, you know, not many people take the time to ask a question that says, how can I solve this problem for the future?

You know, and in that example, that obviously created something incredibly successful. And I think I'm looking back at my life and the times that I cowered and ran because of. I didn't think I was worth the effort or, you know, no, no real self care at the time. And the times in which I was able to be catapulted forward and was always like, okay, well this is a challenge. How can I sidestep it? How can I build around it? How can I overcome it has been like a leading principle in life. I love that when it comes down to the hero's journey, there's been, you know, there's a lot of talk about the hero's journey in the. In the writing world. Even in YouTube nowadays, you can find aspects of the hero's journey. It seems to me that the hero's journey resonates with so many people because it's almost like it directly overlays with life. I think we're almost all dying to kind of release our inner underdog. Do you find that to be true as well?

Absolutely. I mean, look, especially in this country, because this country was an underdog. That's how it was founded originally. And yeah, I think, look, we love to root for somebody. We love to jump up and down and cheer. Whether it's the movie Rudy or the Karate Kid or whatever that is. We love to see those David and Goliath stories. It's just much more dramatic.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think it's a great. And you know, no matter where you are, I just did a workshop where they. We started.

All talking about a challenge that we faced as a child. And it was an incredible workshop. And it was a workshop on becoming an anti racist, actually. So it was about race relations. Very important work. But what it did was show how everyone has a challenge and in a way, there are all sorts of underdogs. So it's something that we all have challenges we have to overcome. So in your life, as you look at it, as you want to achieve success, if you want life mastery.

Yeah.

Looking at your own life is like, okay, I have a channel. How am I going to. How am I going to be Rocky? How am I going to do this? How am I going to be Rudy? Yeah, so I think you're right. I think there's a big overlap there.

I love it. Let's jump into the theater Maker Studio for a minute. I want to understand more about the program and who the program's really for. And then what kind of things can the people with the program expect to get out of the program itself?

So I developed the Theater Maker Studio after years of people asking me to do something. So he started a blog, we started a podcast. I used to do some one off seminars. People used to email me all the time asking me, I have an idea for a musical, what do I do? Or I've written a script, what do I do? Or I need to raise money, what do I do? Or I just how does Broadway work? So I started to do these one off things and they were very successful. So I put together something called the Theater Maker Studio, which is like masterclass.com for the theater with a community element. Right. Because the theater is a collaborative art form. And I also believe that the best way to achieve success is by putting yourself in a pool of other people who want to do the same thing. Yeah, like a mastermind type journey, right?

Yeah.

So the Theater Maker Studio is a this community, but it features a certification program on how to write a script, a certification program on how to get your script on a stage. It's got a Facebook group now with over 1200 members. All people like, looking to get their shows up and out. Some people that I have an idea, what do I do now they can get help from me on coaching calls or coaching calls with playwriting experts. There are, I think, like 100 hours of webinars on everything from how to market your show on social media to again, how to write that outline for your show. So it's really for anyone who's ever thought, you know, this idea, I think this would make a good play or I want to be an actor, I want to be a director, I want.

To check it out.

It's that world. I believe.

The world is a better place if there's more theater in it.

I would agree.

That's my life mission. There's only more people in it if there are more people, there's only more theater in it if there are more people making it. So I developed the Theater Maker Studio to have an online academy to help educate people on how to make theater. So there's put more theater out there?

No. And it's fantastic work. You know, I'm just thinking in terms of I literally am having this image pop in my head about somebody's script that's been sitting on their, their bookshelf collecting dust. Right. And you know, the difference between taking that script and beginning to work on it with someone like yourself and your organization or just letting it sit There on the shelf is at the end of your life. You get to the place going, did I do enough? Did I take the chances I needed to take? You know, you mentioned some of the. Some of the highly successful plays that have been out there, you know, and all of them. I'm sure that each one of those creators had elements of fear and doubt that they just somehow sucked it up and got over, you know? So I want to encourage anybody watching and listening who loves theater or who loves any aspect of theater to definitely check out his program. Because if that's you and your manuscript is sitting on a shelf somewhere, you need to blow that joker off and come do something with it. You really do.

You're so right. I so appreciate that. I talk to a lot of people like that, and they tell me they have multiple scripts. They've been sitting there for two years, five years, seven years. And it gets me excited because there's, like, unrealized potential. The next Hamilton could be in someone's drawer on a script. The next Proof or Doubt or Wicked, but you'll never know. And the interesting thing about.

Scripts for plays or musicals is that they weren't meant to be read.

Yeah.

Plays and musicals were meant to be seen and heard like that. You gotta take a step to get them up on their feet. That's how Lin Manuel Miranda was discovered. Wasn't that someone saw a script. It was that someone saw him perform. That's how so many of our biggest shows have achieved success. Is someone an entrepreneur said, I'm gonna put this up in a little way and get people to see it, and then it snowballs from there.

So. Absolutely. I mean, it seems to me that the difference, a quote unquote, aspiring writer and a writer is an intent. Right. Someone who's got a dream or an ambition or, you know, that story, that illustration of the story, how you're communicating it through your lens, through your life, through experiences, through the various things that, you know you've been through.

Could in fact touch the world, but you'll never know it unless you take a chance.

That's exactly right. I often say that the proof of that statement is in copyright law. Everyone can have an idea for a play or a musical, but literally, you can't protect that idea. The Copyright Office was. An idea is worth it. Nothing.

Yeah.

It's a vapor. It's worth zero. The moment you put that idea on paper, the moment you put that piece of paper up on its feet, then it has value.

Yeah.

When people hear. Has to be. You have to Take action. You have to do it. Take the idea out of your head. Put it on a page. Take that page and put it on a stage. That's what we do. Because that's when you can change the world.

Yeah, well, with that in mind, I know we don't. We're pretty much out of time, but I wanted to. First of all, where can anybody find you?

You can Google me. Just Google Ken Davenport and I'll pop up. Most likely my blog will pop up, which is the producersperspective.com sign up there. I'm all over social media. Kendaveenport B way on Instagram or. Ken, just Google me. You'll find me.

Awesome. Well, as someone who's been there and done that, I got one final question. Okay, well, I guess more kind of a quasi question kind of statement.

What are your final thoughts to the person? Let's talk directly to one person who has maybe a partial script or has an idea for a script or a screenplay.

What can you say to them right now to get them off the fence?

If you don't do anything, if you simply do nothing, I can guarantee you what's going to happen.

Nothing.

If you do something, imagine what could happen. Literally anything could happen. Your wildest dreams could happen. You could win a Tony Award. You could make $100 million. You could have the thing optioned into a movie. Anything can happen. Like, the irony is, I talk to so many people who are on the fence, like I did. And you know what? I asked somebody like, have you ever played the lottery? Oh, sure, I'll throw a buck down. I'll throw a 10 point. Are you kidding? The odds are so much better that you'll achieve success if you just finish your damn script or put the script up or get educated, learn something. That lottery is much more likely to happen. But it's a little bit of work. It's a little bit of getting out of your comfort zone. But also, what's the worst that's going to happen? You're in the same place that you were before.

Exactly.

Right? Nothing. But the cool part about the theater, the cool part about anything, frankly, is if you love it, you're going to enjoy the process. No matter if you make $100 million or not, you're going to be a happier human being. Because at the end of the day, at the end of your life, you can be like, did that thing.

That's right.

And I'm happier as a result. And I can go now onto my next thing or whatever that is with no regrets.

I love it. Dude, thank you so much for sharing your heart. I mean, honestly, it's been an honor to hear more about the theater industry, understand more about how that can drive purpose and passion and become something special. Man, thank you so much for spending time with me today.

It's my pleasure. I really thank you for giving me a platform to talk about the thing that I love almost as much as my wife and daughter at the theater.

Nothing beats them but awesome, my friend. Well, you take care. All right. See you.

My pleasure.

Take care, my friend. Bye. Bye. If you love that interview, go ahead and check out this next one right here.

Real trust is when your prospect says themselves inside. He just gets me. He just understands me. And, you know, on top of that, he's not even tried to sell anything. On top of that.