What's Yours to Carry? The Question That Ends Excuses | Dan Sachkowsky

Is there a moment in time where strength cost you when surrender could have saved you? So today's guest is a high-level performance coach serving out of New Jersey and the Florida area. Made millions, lost it all, had to rebuild it all. Please help me welcome Dan Sikowski.

I started my first business at 17. I had no idea what I was doing. Ignorance on fire. 24 years old, I got a 5,000-square-foot house. I got 2 Escalades. I got an S55 AMG. There comes a point in your life where you realize that there's a problem. You You're literally going through this system. And I remember talking to God and I'm like, hey, like, why do I keep self-sabotaging myself? Why every time I chase something and get it, there's no fulfillment and I'm just not happy? I knew that I had leverage, but then I have a heart attack and that changed everything. Because even though you're building a successful company, you're making all this money, sometimes your focuses are still off. You're still doing things for the wrong reasons. And that heart attack checked me big time.

Dude, what's going on, man?

Hey, man, appreciate the invite, bro.

I've been excited about this for a while. But Dana Grant, we got to give her credit. Like, she was like, you've got to meet each other. Like, you've got to do this, right? So I'm super excited about the new book, Falling Your Way Uphill, man. Um, we're ahead of the book launch, so like, I can't wait to dig into that. But more importantly, I think what I want to do is, uh, one of the things that I actually— I got to witness, right? I'll just share this with the audience here. Uh, we got a chance to meet each other for the first time in Long Island, New York, about a month and a half ago, right? And, uh, it just so happens we were talking last Last night at dinner, um, there's just moments in time where all of a sudden it's, it's, uh, I call it someone's assignment, right? You know, someone steps in the room. You would, you would mention to me you're coming to kind of connect, and we connected. And then, but then a man walks up to you and he's like, you know, I just wanted to pick your brain. And we saw something in, in him. And I just remember hearing my, in my soul a little bit, uh, this is for Dan. Like, this is, this is, I'm sending this guy to Dan. And I watched you work with this man. And it was profound. And it was interesting because it took another 24 hours for the work that was done to recirculate in his soul. But it got me thinking. I know one of the things that you help high-capacity leaders with a lot is helping them understand that they are actually the bottleneck.

Yeah.

Right? So how did you find your way into being able to identify that so quickly?

Well, I think a few things happened early on in life. I started my first business at 17. I had no idea what I was doing. Ignorance on fire.

But ignorance on fire. I like that.

So I literally just went out there and made it happen. And I talk about it in my book where it's someone finally told me— I met my rich dad at 16 and finally told me he believed in me. No one's ever told me that in my life.

Yeah.

So I had the fuel. And a lot of times we don't realize that, you know, every car out there in a lot is full of fuel.

Yeah.

But the problem is we don't know how to drive it.

Yeah.

So I knew the destination and where I wanted to go, but I didn't really know how to get there.

Yeah.

So I figured it all out, did what I had to do, got involved in business, but I was doing everything. And my first awakening was I was around 19 years old. I was bodybuilding back then and building a business. I got into a bad motorcycle accident. I talk about it in the book. And I realized for the first time at 19 years old, I've got, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars in work. And I can't do it.

Yeah.

Everything revolved around me.

Yeah.

So that was the first wake-up call. So then I started getting involved in business books, seeing what was going on, seeing what I had to do. And then I just kept progressing forward and I started hiring people, doing what I had to do, getting myself out of the way. And I think the biggest thing in life is most business owners always want another lead magnet, a different lead generation, a new marketing team. You know, everyone in their staff is the problem. But the problem is, is everything has to go through them.

Yeah.

And they don't trust people enough to let go.

Yeah.

It's almost like that parent who locks their child up for 18 years.

Yeah.

And then that child goes out there and does some crazy stuff because now they're in the free world.

Yeah.

You know, you've got to eventually just kind of let go and release. And once you do and you trust the process, you got to realize that there's people out there that are better than you. And that's the hardest part to be as an entrepreneur, to accept the fact that people are with you on your team and it's okay for them to be better.

Yeah. What do you— so one of the things that sticks out to me is Those, I've, I call those subconscious, like under, undercurrent patterns or subconscious patterns, right? Um, I know at least for me, cuz I did the same thing when I first started the, uh, multitude of the companies, but my largest one that I've formally exited later, um, I was the, I was the catch-all be-all, right? I was the, I was the estimator, I was the warranty tech, like I was the installer. I was the person who stayed up till midnight doing plans and doing quotes and bids.

Yeah.

And, and I was telling people all the time, I used to like literally go to the job site. ready to work. I would go through the first half of the day. I would take a change of clothes with a polo shirt and a nice pair of khakis, right? I would literally wipe myself down with essentially what was like a baby wipe, right? And then I'd go and run a sales call, right? Trying to generate business. And I would come back, take it all back off, and go right back to work.

Yeah.

And I'd work till basically, call it dark, right? Just before dark. I'd come home. I would eat maybe on the way home, like a fast food joint, or get to the house, maybe have some turkey or ham or something like that in the fridge, right? Make a cheese sandwich with a, you know, because you Take the cheese, you put the turkey in the middle, um, you know, because I was running lean, right?

Whatever was quickest.

Exactly. Yeah. And then I would sit down, ironically, and I would— I had a little desk set up like in the living room of this mobile home I was in, and I would sit there and I would do plans and like do markups and stuff till midnight. And then I would go to bed, and then I'd get up at 4:30 AM, right? And I would start, get ready to go to the job site, be on the job site by, by, you know, by the time the sun was rising, right? And It was really hard for me to— once I got into that rhythm, it was really hard for me to let it go. And when I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about, okay, well, what was so hard about it? And for me, I think it's— I think it was fear. It's one of the constraints that we talk about a lot here on the show. Do you see it differently? Do you think fear is under control? Because it seemed like to me, I just felt like it was all going to fall apart if I didn't touch it.

Yeah. So when we perform as owners, And operators, and we're in this stage, we just have this like rude way of looking at other people saying like, nobody could do it better than me. How many times have you met someone even like that you've known for 20 years that says, if I could just find another one of me?

Mm-hmm.

That's the most selfish thing we could say. And you know what I say to people like that? I go, you actually suck. And they go, what do you mean I suck? I go, well, if you're doing the admin, if you're doing the emails, if you're doing the estimating, if you're doing the work out there, and if you're the one who's not going to to bed the lat— the latest, you know, and you're literally staying up. Imagine, yeah, one of those spots was taken by somebody who's perfect and that's all they did. You think they would outperform you because now you've got 4 hats, not 5? Yes, probably. The problem is, is most people don't want to see that because I, I don't know if it's like OCD with business owners, but it's like an act of like everything has to be our way or no way. And then I start giving illustration of a team. So say you're on a pro baseball team, football team, whatever. The person who owns that team has an idea that I want this to be a champion team.

Yeah.

Now that's an idea. What owner of any sports team is out there on the field?

No.

Out there at practice, out there. They buy the concept, create the idea, and then they put the right people in the right place. So the biggest problem in business is when people start to hire They don't have systems in place, so they just put people in place, but now they're babysitting.

Yeah.

No, now you've got a glorified daycare center with adult children, and now you're like, oh, I could have just done it myself.

Yeah.

So it takes the opposite approach of like, what are all these things that I'm doing? Am I okay building my system my way, then inserting the people in the system? Yeah. Then what's the difference?

You know, what's really interesting is, um, If I think back in my own journey, like I literally was doing my estimating and I would order materials on a notepad, right? And then it was a notepad that the material company actually gave us, right? Then it was an Excel spreadsheet and then it was a PO system. And then the PO system was an integrated PO system integrated into the accounting system that, so at each of these different stages, it was leveling up piece by piece.

Yeah.

By piece by piece by piece. And one of the things I've realized is, It's okay to keep it simple, but eventually it has to become a little more sophisticated, right? And then at least some of the errors that I made in hiring is I used to hire people like me, right? The people you just vibe— like, you and I are very similar in how we kind of carry ourselves and how we— we have differences, of course, but like, we, we think about business in the same way. We, we think about leadership in very similar ways. Like, so I would— we would probably be more prone to early days hiring someone like ourselves versus hiring someone that's completely different.

Right.

That can actually operate in a closed-door environment, who wants to sit in front of a computer all day and go through the mechanics of, you know, ordering a job package or, um, doing accounting or something of that nature, estimating or something like that. So more detail-minded. And what was the biggest crack that you faced early on that kind of like really kind of brought it to the surface that this has to change?

So what you just said was like, like attracts like, right? Hiring your buddies and friends, trying to get all these people. And then you realize, hey, these are your buddies and friends. They don't listen to you outside of work. Yeah, I'm not going to listen to you inside of work. So you become more frustrated. So I remember the first time I hired somebody like outside of a family and friend member, I was like 19 years old and I got like this young girl. I was young, I was 19, but I got like a 17 or 18-year-old.

Yeah.

Like work in my office.

Yeah.

And my office was in my mom's house, you know what I mean? In the basement.

Yeah.

Because that's where I started my business. But being able to talk to somebody who I didn't have a relationship with, somebody who could understand, hey, here's what I need to do, here's how I want it done. Yeah. And I just think that, you know, if we allow ourselves to really look at the major problems in our business are created by the way we think.

Mm-hmm.

Because everyone gets involved in business and then they just go into faint like you were doing. A lot of my clients, you know, they're working, they're sending me text messages or emails in their first 30 days, 90 days working with me at midnight. I'm like, listen, guys, this is your first problem. But nobody wants to see that as a problem. So I looked on early on and I said, okay, if I can get outside of my zone and I started looking at some of the other people, there's 2 things that happens. We look at other businesses and we either compare ourselves or we take notes.

Yeah.

So, man, why is that guy got such a big business? That girl got such a big business. What am I doing wrong? The question is, what are they doing right that I'm not doing?

That's good.

So that's what I started looking at at 19 and 20 years old. I started saying, saying, what are these bigger companies— I'm only 2 years in business, these people have been in business for 10, 15 years. Yeah, but what are they doing right that I'm not doing yet?

Yeah.

And I had to figure that out. So I literally would start talking to these people. What's interesting is if I met you at a bar, I met you at a restaurant, I met you at a party, and I started talking to you about business and asking you questions, because of who you are and what you've done, you'll give me answers. So the problem in business is As a new entrepreneur, if someone asks us a question, we don't want to tell them anything because we think they're trying to steal our money. But go find someone who's actually made it, someone who's actually done it, and they'll literally sit there and tell you and coach you for free because they want you to be successful, even if they don't know you.

Yeah, well, I think, I think they want to be successful because they understand the price you have to pay to become successful. And a lot of it because, you know, one of the things I do a lot of— yeah, I think you saw me do this when we saw each other in Long Island not that long ago. One of the things I try to do right up front is I try to celebrate the sacrifices that the leaders have pay to be in that room, right? Um, and whether, you know, they're new at this, this second business that they're growing, or whether they've been in this business for 5 or 10 years, there's, uh, entrepreneurs know entrepreneurs when they see them.

Yeah, that's right.

Right? There's, there's a mantle they carry, there's a weight they carry, there's pressure. It just, it's just something in the eyes, like something in the eyes that you know, that you know that they've been through some stuff.

Yes.

Right? And one of the things I appreciate about Not just how you carry yourself and how you present to the people you work with, is you also recognize those sacrifices.

Right.

And one of our— Bernard, one of my new friends that I met last night, thanks to you. One of the things that kept resonating last night at dinner with us was this element of the reason you can see it is because you experienced it.

Yes.

Right. I want to go back a little bit because we have a similarity that I that I'm trying to help the audience understand repeatedly over and over and over and over again, which is it's not the accumulation of more stuff that's going to fulfill you, right? It's deeper and it's richer than that. The stuff is a byproduct of real true meaning and significance and stuff like that. Walk me through how you discovered the importance of what really matters as well.

So I think at an early age of all entrepreneurship, we chased the shiny objects.

Me too.

We chased the cars, we chased the house, we chased the lifestyle. Growing up, when I first started my business, MTV Cribs. Oh, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. This is what we saw. Yeah, but there was never a disclaimer at the bottom of that video saying the things that are in this video may not be owned and are possibly rented for the context of that video.

So not much has changed.

So then what happens? What happens is, is you get this illustration that if you have that stuff, you're wealthy. So at 24 years old, I got a 5,000-square-foot house. I got 2 Escalades. I got an S55 AMG. My neighbor's kids are older than me living at home. I look like the drug dealer on the block. I made it.

Yeah.

Nobody's talking to me. And because my ego was so big, because I thought that all that stuff was going to fulfill me. But what it did was it separated me. Even though we all lived in the same style house, All these people worked hard, but they couldn't see what I was doing because I was pushing it in their face. So there comes a point in life where you continue to chase and chase and chase and chase and chase and realize that you're empty.

Yeah.

So I did that for many years. I talk a lot about that in the book, that I chased women, I chased cars, I chased houses, I chased everything.

Yeah.

As soon as something told me that I was doing good or showed me a sign, I thought it would make me feel good about myself. Well, it was just on to the next thing because it was like the cup of coffee is empty. I need to refill it. And there comes a point in your life where you realize that there's a problem.

Yeah.

You know, you're literally going through this system. And I remember talking to God and I'm like, hey, like, why do I keep self-sabotaging myself? Why every time I chase something and get it, there's no fulfillment and I'm just not happy? And he goes, because you're trying to fill a void that you're never going to fill because you're just not happy.

Yeah.

And until you realize that you're the only person who got to wake up in the morning and be happy on your mission and doing what you're doing. And now you're a servant giving to others, doing for others, showing for others. And now that money becomes a byproduct, not the product. Your life will never change.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, when, when I think in terms of, you know, felling your way up, falling your way uphill, right? I'm thinking about learning the lessons at each stage of the trip. And not seeing those stages as like going backwards. I see them more as like layers of a foundation, right?

So you get the catapult.

Yeah. So, you know, sometimes I feel like books call us to write them. Like there's something that's inside of us that are like, you know, this has to come out, you know. So when you start looking at patterns, for example, what are like A handful of patterns that you're seeing consistently with these high-level leaders who want to do good in the world, right? Even if I go back to the young man that we were talking to, right? Well, I was actually listening. I was doing most of the listening. You were doing a lot of the instructional talking. When I go back and look at that whole thing, right, there were elements of understanding that were just being missed. There was patterns that weren't being seen.

Right.

And then, but as you began to do your work with him and began to pull these things apart and pick these things apart in a very loving, responsible, um, life-giving way, um, I began to like reconcile those with thousands of other conversations of how these things are very, very similar on a regular basis with other high-level capacity leaders, right? So what patterns are you seeing consistently that you specifically addressed in the book?

So we have to stop and evaluate for a second. Let's look at what's going on. And then we have to do 2 things. Okay, let's look at it in our perspective, like what do we think is happening? And then what's really happening? Now, once we see the difference, because we don't ever look at a difference, we only look at the way we feel. We only look at the way we see it. We look at it through our lens, but we don't look at it on the outside.

Yeah.

And usually if we look at it from the outside, we start to realize that we're making this up.

Yeah.

In our mind. And it's not really what it is, but it's what we want to believe. So oftentimes we're living in the world of make-believe, like this is what we believe and we're telling our subconscious— our subconscious doesn't know the difference between reality and what we're thinking. So we're tricking our subconscious to believe that all the things that we think that we're doing the good for are good.

Yeah.

But eternally they're not.

Yeah.

So I say, let's look at life. So let's talk about this guy, for example, because it's a great thing. He comes up to us. He's talking about how much money he's making, how successful he is in business and all this, and his his wife, his kids, and all that. I'm like, great. How's your relationship with your wife? Amazing, bro. Amazing. How's your relationship with your kids? Bro, couldn't be better. Right? All right. And talking about all this stuff. When was the last time you went on vacation with your kids? Oh, it's been a while. When's the last time you've been home for dinner? I'm home for dinner all the time. But you're on your phone? Are you on your phone? Yeah, I'm on my phone. All right. So let me ask you a question. If I interviewed Like your wife, and I said, "Hey, how's he showing up? What's she going to say to me?" That I could probably be around more. But I thought it was amazing if I interviewed your kids and is dad present all the time when he's around you, or is dad distracted? What are your kids going to say? Man, I never really thought about it like that.

Yeah.

So the problem is, is he thought about it in his lens.

Yeah.

Because he's providing. He thinks that his job is to be the provider of money.

Yeah.

But they need him as a provider of time.

Yeah.

If you're not present and like, what does everyone say? I'm doing it for my kids. I call bullshit on 90%.

I know. So I'm, I'm glad you said that because I like publicly told people, like, I was telling myself I was doing it for them. Reality was, is I was doing just as much for me.

Because here's what happens. 95% of entrepreneurs, I'm doing this for my family. What does your family get? The time that you have left. And what's that time? Frustration, aggravation, tired, can't be bothered. Are you really doing it for your family?

No, I think not.

Right. You're doing it for you because the minute you can go buy that car you want, that was more important than taking your family on an exclusive trip. The moment you can go out there and say your bank account looks like this and you could have a conversation around a roundtable, that makes you feel good.

Yeah.

When you do it for self-satisfaction, you've got no satisfaction.

It's so true. It's funny, I did— we, you know, I know that you were able to unpack a lot with him, and it was beautiful to watch because I think he really shifted, um, over the course of 24 hours, um, which was really good because I think that was what our heart from was like, bro, you just, just a couple shifts, bro. You just don't— you don't, you don't know what you don't know.

Yeah, exactly.

If you just let your guard down for a couple minutes, you got 2 men right here that are more than happy to help.

Right.

But what I did see shift in him is a new awareness. It'd be kind of interesting to go back a year from now and see what's moved the needle. But you work with a lot of very successful organizations, a lot of leaders that really want to do— I would say they want to do big things. There's a part of them that wants to do it big. But you also do a good job of unpacking how to do it right. Like, what's the motivation behind it? And, you know, does so much of that just come back from your own experience as far as like, you know, kind of, you know, you paid a price to get where you're at and then you learned a new lesson? And then like, because I feel like I'm trying to solve— I'm trying to save people time and energy and pain.

Yeah. So I wrote this book back in 2016, um, and I never published it. And I just came to a point where I don't need a book. Yeah. But I do need a book because you know what most people don't realize? And we talked about this last night. You know, so many people teach because they profess what they think they know, but they're not professing it in real life. I've owned a shovel, used a shovel, sold a shovel. I understand the shovel.

Mm-hmm.

But the problem is, is how do I separate myself from the masses who go out there and try to teach but have never done? Well, you know what, this will take you an hour and a half to read, maybe 2 hours. Read it, you'll understand where I'm coming from. Because I think the value is, is that everything I teach and everything I talk about is based from experience.

Yeah.

And I used all of those as pivotal points in my life to realize that everyone in this world is screwed up, but I'm screwed up too. And as long as I can admit the fact that, hey, we're all screwed up in our own way, But the only way we're going to learn is to admit that 3 things happen from every situation. We have to understand what it's doing for us and where it's going to take us. And that's a learning curve. We have to understand that it's not punishment. It's obedience to realize that the next door is going to open.

Mm-hmm.

And number 3, we can't become victim to what's happening in our life. We have to become victor because that will help us Excel.

Yeah.

We've got one control stick in our world. The day we're born and the day we die, we have no clue.

Yeah.

That dash in between is the only thing that we get to enjoy. So fast forward, if I look at all these things in my life, having a kid at 24 years old, 23 years old, you know, my first kid, realizing like, oh wait, I'm not doing it for me anymore. Now I gotta do it for somebody else. I gotta lead the example. And now that kid today is 21, almost 22 years old. He's my best friend. He's a successful entrepreneur. You know, he's making 6 figures at 21 years old because of how I molded it. So, like, it's better for us to pave the youth for the path than it is to pave the path for the youth.

Yeah.

People don't understand that. So it's important for us because people, kids, our surrounding, they watch what we do, they watch what we say. And if it doesn't line up with how we show up, There's a big difference.

Yeah.

And it's the same thing with your family. So you're doing it for your family, you're doing it for your wife. This is why divorce is so high, and, and this is why I got divorced, you know what I mean? Like, you're just doing the thing, you know? You got a nanny raising your kids, that's what success looks like, you know? The nanny will take the kids, and that's our job. We brought these kids in the world. Why aren't we doing it? Yeah, because that's not what success was written for in the book that we read.

Yeah, dude, there's a lot there. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna encourage everybody to take a moment and just rewind and just listen to that again. There was a lot there, bro, uh, that's really powerful.

I'm like you, bro. I can just go and I gotta shut myself off.

No, it's great. No, I mean, this is, this is why you're on the show, right?

I remember last night we're like, all right, stop.

Poor Bernard. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta close this down. Um, it has me thinking, what is, what is an area of your life that you used to spend that you now protect?

My time, my association. So going back to what we were talking about before, like, I started spending time when I was in my 19, 20, 21-year-old with 28-year-olds, 29-year-olds, 30-year-olds, people who were successful on yachts, on boats, with people who were doing the thing. And I realized so early in life association was priceless. And it was about the vital few, not them all.

Yeah.

And everyone's like, oh, I've got so many friends. And I said, like, I know a lot of people, but I would consider myself like— I've got 2 or 3 very close friends. I've got people like you who I know, like, hey, I can call you. Yeah. Anytime and we could have a conversation.

Yeah.

You know, like I told you last night, you get a flat tire, bro, I don't care. I'm not in North Carolina, but if I'm in California, I'll call for help for you. I'm not coming, but I'll get you—

I'll get you AAA, bro.

I'll get you taken care of. But that's the person I am. But I'm not gonna run to everyone's need. Yeah, because at the end of the day, you start to realize, and you'll see it through the book, like, who's running to your need? Yeah, we do so much for everybody else, but nobody wants to show up for us. I mean, you ever move from house to house?

Oh yeah.

And your friends, you help them, but would they ever show up to help you?

Oh, for sure. I do. I know, you know, I've— especially in this, this world of, um, we'll call it thought leadership, right? I don't know what else, what else to really prescribe or describe it, but I've helped a lot of folks in the industry, right? Specifically people that are people I believe in, that are really good people that have a great message and need to be heard. Um, in fact, I've said on the show many times, like, the greatest voices in the world still have yet to be fully heard, right? Um, I've also been in rooms where I've helped people who are already very established and done a lot of really good work for them. Um, and then, you know, get to this place of Okay, well, now after 5 years, 10 years of serving, uh, everyone around me, like having, having— okay, well, I've got a, I've got a book coming out next year I want to be— I'm really excited about. It's gonna be— it's a signature work. It's going to change a lot of lives, you know. Can I, can I call in that favor? I don't know that I could say that all of them I could call the favor in on, even though I've done nothing but give favors away for decades, you know.

It's like this, right? These people that you've given favors to for decades, if you ask them to buy your book, they're gonna expect you to give it to But people like myself, people who you meet, people who are in industry, people who understand what you're doing will buy 10 copies, 15 copies, 20 copies. Yeah, because we believe in you.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

And our missions are the same.

Yeah, yeah. No, and the same on this side. I can't— like, so I'm excited about the release. I mean, it's going to be really cool. I know that, you know, again, certain books call you to write them, right? Um, your story of resilience I think is just as profound as the experience you now can give to someone who needs the additional insights and additional training. And one of the things that I know you talk a lot about is this hero syndrome, this need to be all things to all people at all times. But if we even just look at Marvel characters, the greatest heroes go through the greatest trials.

Mm-hmm.

Like, every one of them— Superman had his own mentor of sorts. Batman had his own mentor, right? Wolverine has his own mentor and his own trials and stuff like that. So it should negate the fact that we feel like we have to stand up and be all things to all people on a regular basis.

Because we're taught at a young age that selfish is a bad word. And selfish is the most positive place you could live. If you can't serve yourself and show up for yourself at 100, how can you tell me that you're doing it for someone else? Yeah, but we want to show up and do everything and we get what's left. It's the same thing with the family syndrome when you're an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

They get what's left. You've got to take care of your health. You've got to take care of yourself. You've got to take care of your sleep. You've got to make sure that you're performing at a level that you're expecting from others, because if not, your life's going to continue to fall short. Yeah, that's being selfish, putting yourself first. And when you talk to entrepreneurs about that, they go, I can't do that. Yeah, I can't do that.

Hey there, I hope you're enjoying the episode. Look, I love making great content for you, but more importantly, we like creating great resources. So before we get you back in the episode, I want to make you aware of the Aligned Leader Index, which you can find at stephenscoggins.com/leadership. This is a one-of-a-kind tool that I wish I had when I was actually building and scaling my own organizations. Why? Because a lot of times the bottlenecks that we think are actually in our way are not really the bottlenecks that are actually in our way. And what the cool thing about this specific thing is, it's going to let you know what the number one constraint is internally. The number one driver that's actually in your way or being disrupted, where chaos and dysfunction are showing up. And number 3, probably most important, where your leadership blind spot likely is. So if you're tired of your business actually running you and you want to take operational control over your organization, make sure you take complete advantage of the Align Leader Index. It takes 5 to 7 minutes and it'll give you instant clarification on the thing that's holding you back right now. Let's get back to the show. You know what's really interesting is I find that either— I was actually having this conversation at the gym today. I've got a friend of mine who's hiring a key position for their organization and reached out to me and, hey, do you know anybody that would kind of fit this? And I was like, oh, you know what? I actually do know someone that I think would be a good person, at least interview, right? So I reached out to that person and I'm having this— and I had this interesting distinction of some leaders almost abandon leadership together and just over-delegate, right? Other leaders way under-delegate. They have control, like they have to have control of it. And it seems like the balance between the two is stewardship. It's like, who can steward what and when, where, and how? How can you tell when a leader is in need of releasing control versus maybe kind of reobtaining part of their assignment? Because I'll tell you that in my journey, there were times where I was over-controlling, over-dominant. You know, I wanted to have my hands in everything. I wanted to have a specific way, kind of what you were describing earlier. There's also a time and place where I realized that was wrong and I vacillated to the complete other side of that. I was like, well, whatever you guys think, like, whatever you guys think, you know? So—

So the job as a CEO is to be a CEO, visionary, create the principles of Number one, where you're standing and where you're going, and understanding that your job is to create the substance for other people to be a part of. So I, I take it back to like when I, when I deal with— so I'm dealing with one of my clients right now, like he is such a control freak. I'm like, dude, imagine your dad held your shirt for 30 years while you were trying to ride a bicycle.

Hmm.

When's the point of frustration kick in? This is what you're doing to every single one of your employees. You're putting a guy in a sales position, you're putting a guy in his project management position, but you're holding his shirt. You're not letting him go. And he's so tense and he doesn't know what to do because if he pedals too fast and releases, you're going to yell. Do you want to grow a business or do you want to own a daycare?

Yeah.

Because if you want to own a daycare, remember, like, how long can you sit around crying children? And the only time you're happy is when they're taking a nap. Is this the life you want?

Yeah.

And that's the problem with business, is that we want to be the ones to delegate but also dictate. There's a big difference. So I say, listen, your job is to realize that there are people who can do it better than you, but if you don't trust those people, it's never going to happen.

Yeah.

You don't trust your family. You don't trust your parents. You don't trust a lot of things in life. This is why you are where you are. And trust is the biggest releaser. We have to release it. We just have to let go and put faith in God that he's going to allow things to work out in our favor because it's no more our control.

Yeah. You know what's interesting about that? The way out for me was structure. Right? And what I mean by that is, like, for me, and especially in the early days, like, it was really hard to delegate, um, because I wanted things a specific way. Like, I cared about what the customer saw, what they— what the customer experienced. So everything was centered around what they experienced, what they saw. Or do we look like a professional company? Do we look like a ragtag team? Like, um, do they feel like they, they matter to us, or do they feel like they're just like another number, right? All these types of things. And structurally, the only way I got there was I had to, first of all, I had to start hiring for deficiencies. Like, this role needs someone who can do this role. I had to come to terms with that they will most likely do that role better.

Mm-hmm.

Right? And then I had to create a structure and methodology, which was, hey, for the first 90 to 120 days, I'm going to train you our way, our current way of doing this, right? And then we're going to watch it another 30 to 60 days. on you actually executing based on this. We're going to test competency along the way. But at the end of that timeframe, if you see a better way to do it, I'm all ears. And I had to mean it because I used to say it and I didn't mean it. I'm like, come and learn our way. If you got better ideas, come tell me about it. And then I would shoot— the idea would come out and I'd shoot it down.

So what you talked about was things getting done and customer satisfaction and being done your way. And what I tell my clients is this, The difference between your customers and clients is they don't know the difference between good and great. You're great because you're a professional, but good to them is great because it's professional. So for example, I'm in your gym this morning working out, contractor background. I see holes in the wall for you putting some things up on the wall, and I noticed this. Nobody else would have noticed it, but I went to look for it.

Yeah.

Why? That's my profession. Good. You did a great job. It looks great. But for me, I've got to overanalyze it. So if that was one of my guys doing it, what are you doing? But nobody would notice that. I had to look, look, look, right?

Yeah.

So we have this perspective that everyone's looking at it at our lens, but the customer just wants what they want and what they need. And as long as the service level is great to them. It has to just be good for us. Yeah.

Well, and the other thing too is I— one of the things I had to do too as part of that same— on that same segment is I had to realize that they're gonna mess it up. Like, when you're hiring a professional for a specific role to, to, you know, be good, then great, and you're, you're walking through that process— like, one of the big mistakes I used to make back in the day was I would train them and they'd be great for 6, 8 months, and like, and then they would make one mistake Mm-hmm. And I would dress them down in a big way in that one mistake. And then what I would see is them not wanting to take the risk to, to try again.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So I call it never suppress your superstars.

Wow.

Right. I started, and then that finally got me to hiring people who were better at specific things than I was. Yeah. Right. Uh, another big shift for me, um, was this moment of having an executive team, right? You have 5 or 6 people on an executive team. You're, you know, we have 5 drivers. We have one, one that leads each role. And in, in the grand scheme of things, what was really interesting about that is I used to come in and I'd say, give me your updates, and they would give me an update, right? And then I would— that would fill the need to speak for 30 or 45 minutes to an hour, right? And then we'd get up and leave. The problem was I wasn't actually listening, you know what I'm saying? So all the ideas, ways to improve the business that they saw at their ground level, at the different areas— because there's only so much you can see, especially as the company grows, as a CEO, founder, visionary, that you need the team to bring like real clarity. So what switched for me was I started saying, like, hey guys, basically like, how's your mom and them? How are you doing? Like, what's— how you really doing? Like, I remember you brought that up last night. And then I would— then I would say, just help me understand how you see the business from your perspective. Like, what are the— you know, and basically run the kind of like a brief SWOT, right?

Yeah.

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. And get to the end of the— end of the thing, I'm like, you know what, that sounds great, rock and roll.

I do the same thing. Like, I have team call once a week, right? So I send out an email With you know where we were last week and where we're at, and then I just sit back and listen, and I let everyone take on their assignment. What they were supposed to do, where they're at, what can I do to help? You know, where are we struggling? And let's figure out a solution to whatever's going on so that we can continue to proactively be growing together versus me coming on. This wasn't done right. I don't look at that stuff. It's not my job. My job is to make sure that I brought you in. I'm paying you to do things that you know you can do, and if there's something that you're maybe. struggling with, you just have to let me know. Yeah. And we're gonna figure out how we're gonna fix it.

Yeah.

Versus being like, we try to double down. So this works in like business and it works on relationships. So think about this for a second. You're with a female and, uh, she's amazing, but there's just something she's missing. And then you, for the next 12 months, you focus on that one thing and you just want her to be better at that one thing.

Mm-hmm.

And then what happens? Frustration, aggravation, fights because she's not showing up the way you want her to show up.

Expectation, yeah.

Why aren't we looking at the good qualities of this woman and say, okay, here's what she's good at. How do I double down and make her amazing at that?

Yeah.

And I'll fill in where she falls short.

Mm, that's good.

So the same thing with business.

Yeah.

We bring people on, and when we initially bring them on, we anticipate that they're gonna do X, Y, and Z. But if they're just not good at X and Y, but they're really good at Z, let them focus on Z, double down, get someone in X and Y to execute. Yeah, let them do their thing. But we always try to make people better, make people have roles that they're not supposed to have. How many businesses you go into and, you know, the office manager got 5 jobs? Mm-hmm. I wasn't hired for this. Yeah, but it's like pressure, pressure, pressure. Then you're going to tell me why your office manager isn't doing your P&Ls correctly because you got her doing everything else.

Yeah.

You know, she shouldn't be doing that. Yeah. And if you— P&L, just hire a bookkeeper.

Well, 9 times out of 10, especially when you've got team members who are overloaded doing things they're not supposed to be doing, they're not actually running from a— what we would call a KRA, a job description SOP. They're not running from any kind of like operating procedure. And it's because the leader did not take the time to train and execute to make that actually a systematic process.

Systems first, people second.

Yeah. It's interesting because I find that a lot of us will— I Another thing that happened this morning, I was trying to connect these 2 leaders together because I think they'd be great to work together, right? We got a leader looking for a position. I got a person who's open to having a position. And one of the things that dawned on me again today was this element of understanding that great teams need great leadership. But sometimes leadership is embodiment and not words or actions. I'm also reminded by— you saw a picture of me and Dave Ramsey downstairs. We were looking at the studio and stuff like that. And one of the greatest lessons I learned from him was actually from one of his greatest mistakes that he verbalized, which was he had a propensity, like I do, to find it really easy to find the stuff that's wrong, kind of what you were just describing.

Mm-hmm.

And he taught me to go and make it a point to go out and catch him doing something right.

Right.

So when you do have to deliver that vinegar, you know, that you've got lots of honey around it so that the vinegar, like, as you know, is nowhere near as painful.

Yeah.

You know, so these types of leadership, these are nuances that all require a grounded leader, a self-aware leader.

Yep.

Right. Um, I would consider you a very self-aware leader, CEO, founder, um, performance coach, all the things. You know, how long did it take you to make that transition to actually get to the place where you were very grounded, regulated, and look from an awareness standpoint?

It took about 15 years, um, because every time that we do something good, we want to stop learning and we want to stop implementing the change, and then we always go backwards. So through the process of having all these businesses, I ended up buying a bad business back in 2014.

Hmm.

I had sold my previous company. I bought my competitor out. Everything looked good. Accountant looks at it, lawyers look at it, cleanest deal ever, man. Just do it. But you know, when, uh, the stuff isn't inserted into the books and you're $3.5 million in debt the day you sign over the company, you got a problem. And that was a waking moment where, again, I'm chasing greed because I'm looking, oh, if I put $100 grand in this thing, I'm going to be a millionaire again. You know, like, here's another couple million. And we always chase the next thing. And at that point, I had to take myself back and say, okay, after that company was done and I built the next company, which was 2 companies ago that I had gotten rid of, I built it on purpose this time. I built it the right way from the foundation up. Because I knew that everything at the bottom was going to rise in the way the leadership started from the bottom. And that next company went on to do $30 million, and it was just like, wow.

Yeah.

Because it was structured different. I worked 20 hours a week maybe, but I had the right people in place, the right systems in place. And I realized that I can no longer be in control. I'm the idea man. I wear the hat.

Yeah.

For the idea. That's it.

Yeah.

And everything else, it's like our GPS in our car is updated with a map when we buy the car. And we're, we're just putting the destination in. We're trusting the satellite. We're trusting the girl on the voice behind. We're trusting the manufacturer on them getting us to our place. Those are our people. We We know the destination and where we're going. We just don't know how we're going to get there until we listen to the voice, until we watch the map, until we know that the program is correct. But this is everything outside of us.

Yeah.

And I started building everything on purpose without the intention of me being the one to know that the only way that this business was ever going to be a real business was if I wasn't a control stick.

Yeah.

And that last company was Ridiculous. But again, I knew that I had leverage, but then I have a heart attack.

Yeah.

And that changed everything.

Yeah.

Because even though you're building a successful company, you're making all this money, sometimes your focuses are still off.

Yeah.

You're still doing things for the wrong reasons. And that heart attack checked me big time.

Jeez. Well, I can't even imagine, right? Um, because I would assume that it caused you to really question everything you had been building and why you've been building it.

So what happened was, this was about 4 years ago, almost last— in August. August 3rd was the anniversary of it, 4 years ago. So when I'm laying in the ambulance and I just really felt like I got released, my spirit got released, and I'm having a conversation with God. My son now, for about 2 years now, hasn't talked to me. Parent alienation from a divorce.

Rough.

And I'm having this conversation with God. And I said, I can't. I'm not ready, man. And then he's like, no one's ever ready, right?

Yeah.

He goes, but how many times do I have to show you that you're on the wrong path? I've instilled you with the gift of discipline, and you've used it for you. But the problem is, is you're selfish and you don't want to share it with others. And at that point I was like, I didn't understand.

Yeah.

But I said, listen, bring me back and I'll change.

Yeah.

And I didn't.

Yeah.

So my doctor's like, hey, you need to take 6 months off. So I've got a project manager. I let him— hey, I'm gonna let you do sales too.

Yeah.

I'll give you some more money. I thought the assignment was to make him wealthier, make him more money. But it wasn't. Get rid of what you have and build it for others was the assignment. So what that project manager did was run my company to the ground financially in about 9 months. And my bookkeeper caught it. And he was signing work, signing work, signing work for commissions. But the profits just weren't there.

Yeah, the margins weren't there to protect it.

Yeah.

Wow.

So again, God's like, are you ready to listen now? I was able to keep the company alive. Company still had money, still was doing good, so I was able to sell it, but not for the dollar amount that I should have sold it for. But at the same time, that was my exit.

Yeah.

That's what happens when I sell it— the guy defaults on payment. Um, so God goes, okay, what are you gonna do now? You were just gonna take the money and chill.

Yeah.

Now go make some more.

Yeah.

Help other people, and I'll provide.

Yeah.

So that was a waking moment, dude. And that was like 3 years ago. Yeah.

Wow. Well, and, you know, and it's interesting how these catalyst moments, these pivotal moments, um, not just change the perspective but also change the way in which we are motivated to move forward, right? Um, I can tell everybody publicly, after watching you just one-on-one, you know, with people one-on-one, um, there's— they're not paying you for that, for that, that coaching, that level of, uh, learning in that moment. Um, there, there's There's nothing they can give you of value in that moment except the value you're giving them in that moment. Right? We have one of Bernard, who I met through you. I was excited to have him on the show as well. One of the things we were talking about, because I know he's going through his own arc of creating of kind of what the next moment's going to look like as far as how he's going to serve at scale. And it was really interesting. He's like, part of me doesn't feel like charging right now. I'm like, well, great. You're getting lots of reps and getting lots of practice, right?

Yeah.

Because it's being done for the right thing. Right. And I find that being really interesting in the grand scheme of things because I feel like falling your way uphill is how you get there. Right. Is there a specific chapter in the book that was like the most difficult to write, but also offers the most value?

Every chapter is really, really good. But I'll say one chapter is about my daughter. I planned my life out and what I wanted, and God took it away. Meaning I wanted 3 boys. We had 3 boys, but now I've only got 2. I'll let you read the rest of the book.

Yeah.

But then I have a daughter. And that was a waking moment where it's like, it's not your plan, bro. You know, and I was crushed because we've got this whole recipe That we try to lay out.

Yeah.

And when it doesn't work in our favor, we try to look at the problem.

Yeah.

But there's no problem.

Yeah.

We've got so many blessings in our life that we take advantage of that we don't realize. But if we actually sit there for a moment and look at the things that have developed us and changed us— if I never had a daughter, I wouldn't be the man I am today. I was a hard, muscle-bound, yeah, big guy. Like, you weren't telling me anything, dude. But now I have a daughter, I have a soft side. Now I get it.

Yeah.

I never understood what unconditional love was until I had a daughter. No woman in the world could provide me what my daughter has provided me.

Wow. Wow. You know, you know, it's funny, I actually have a couple questions around that because, uh, one of the things I, that I was telling you this morning before we got on air and we were just chit-chatting over here in the kitchen is, uh, You know, there's definitely a lot of lion energy. Like, um, and I'm always telling the audience, like, there's— with the lion and the lamb energy, right, there's the immature and mature versions of each of those, right?

Mm-hmm.

And what I've gotten to witness is a very mature lion, um, especially getting to, like, spend time with you, like, one-on-one, break bread with you, like, just have conversations and stuff like that. Um, you know, so I was kind of like— had me thinking a little bit. You know, one of the questions I jotted down that I wanted to kind of run past you is, Is there a place where the lion still runs a little too hot from time to time?

So I'm a very systematic guy, meaning my day's planned.

So yeah, you showed me that killer planner you're gonna be launching soon too. So amazing.

Things don't go according to my plan. Yeah, I get irritated not at myself but at others wanting me to compromise. Okay, so that's when I get hot, when people don't understand why I'm so locked in. But my determination to be so disciplined in the things I need to do so I can accomplish the things I need to accomplish have gotten me to where I am today. So I get super hot when dents fall, when things happen, but I learn how to adjust myself. So back in the day, I'd be mad for a week, then a day. So last night we're at dinner, someone cancels on me. I showed you that. Yeah, pissed me off, dude.

Yeah, it bothered me too.

But yeah, but it would have pissed me off for like the next 3 days. I work on my recovery time. It made me mad for 2 minutes.

Yeah.

You know, and I just said to myself like, hey, this person— and I thought back. So instead of reacting in a moment, I thought back of how the moment created. I had an interview call with this person prior to even setting anything up, and he was 25 minutes late. So I said, my time wasn't respected the first time. Now it's not the second time.

Yeah.

That's not a me problem.

Yeah.

That's a them problem.

Yeah.

So I think we look at so many situations and we try to figure out why, but— and most of the time it's not on us.

Yeah.

It's on other things, and we have to be okay with that.

Yeah.

But we don't want to be okay with that because we want to be in control. So the control factor of all of this throughout the problem, and, you know, me being a little hotheaded sometimes, is only when Things don't go my way. I'm on my boat, right? So I'm on my boat the other day and, uh, my oil pan, like, something happened and dude, my boat shut off. Brand new boat. All the oil is on the bottom of my bilge, like by my bilge pump. And I'm like, I've got no oil in my boat.

Wow.

So now you got Sea Tow, 3 and a half hours, got people on the boat. They're like, how are you so calm? I go, I'm gonna use this time to post content. I'm going to use this time to just get ahead.

Yeah.

And I'm just going to relax and I'm going to enjoy this 8-mile-an-hour ride back to the dockboat style, back to the dock. Because at the end of the day, how I react and the way I do it is going to set the tone for the rest of you. And everyone was calm, everyone was cool, everyone was laughing. And it was just 3 hours of everyone just communicating and having a good time instead of one person being frustrated.

It's interesting. Sometimes those moments create the blessings. Like, for example, even with the situation last night that that obviously was— I, you know, it is what it is right now. We wanted— right. But, um, I got to thinking this morning, I was like, well, cool, we all get to hang out a little longer.

Yeah.

Right. We're not always having to rush off to the next thing, right? There's going to be— I have a feeling just because of what happened last night, and then obviously the shows and, and whatnot, we'll, we'll have more really great content come out that we're not thinking about, we're not, um, planning for, right? It's just gonna— it's gonna— it's gonna show itself. And then, you know, having Quest and the guys here to kind of capture whatever we can capture. I think it's gonna be genius.

Yeah, I almost wish we had a camera last night. But yeah, I just think how we ended up here— like, Dana pushed so hard. You talked to us, you talked to him, you talked— I'm like, not yet. Like, we talked a little bit, you know what I mean? And then we finally, like, we got to connect. And now look at how far that has went.

Yeah, yeah.

Unplanned. Yeah. And understanding— but it's not for our understanding.

Yeah.

God's got a plan.

You know what's really interesting is Going back to God's plan versus our plan, like every single time that I've had my own plan and God wants to change it, when I resist it, it gets worse. When I don't resist and just lean in, it's far better than I could have planned for to begin with.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And some relationships just aren't for us. Right. Um, you, you meant a second ago, like, I, I'm one of the things I try to get, help leaders fully appreciate and understand is like, really, what is yours to carry? Right. What's yours to carry, like even in the situation last night, is, okay, I showed up, I drove the 10 hours, like I'm nearby, right? I'm committed. We got the hotels rented, we got the stuff done. Um, and then that was yours to carry. And then after that, the rest of it's not yours to carry, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um, it doesn't mean it's not frustrating and stuff, which kind of had me thinking. I'm gonna go back to the lion-lamb thing. Um, you know, I asked you where it kind of still runs a little too hot from time to time, and Where has the Lamb actually saved you?

So all the times that I've gotten worked up and I realized that I spend so much time frustrated when I should really spend time in peace and in silence and look at why these things are happening. So we talked about this last night, just be still. So everything that happens in our life, just process it. Why is this happening? I don't know. Show me.

Yeah.

We're so reactive to everything and we always want to, like, put energy towards something that we have nothing about. That's just wasted energy. So, like, I talk about worry, right? 99% of things that we worry about never happen.

Yeah.

How many times do you have shower conversations, car conversations about how you're going to show up? Yeah.

Rehearsing.

So, so for me, I don't do any of that. Yeah. Because I've realized in life that's just wasted time. The moment is the moment. We can react in the moment, but we can only do it in the moment.

Yeah.

We can't create the moment.

Yeah.

Nor can we protect it.

Yeah.

Because we're not in it. So I've taken myself to this place, like, literally everything that's happened in my life, like, bro, it's cool, it's all good. And people are like, why are you mad? There's no reason to get mad.

Yeah.

I get upset for 2 seconds, it's irrelevant. It's like me and you were fighting, your goal is to get me pissed. You ain't getting me pissed.

Yeah.

I'm gonna get you more pissed.

I always say the most grounded person wins.

Yeah, I'm gonna get you more pissed because you ain't getting me pissed.

Yeah, most grounded person wins. Um, you know what's really interesting about that, that whole, uh, concept is, you know, one of the things that the LAMB does really well is LAMB builds connection, right? It, it, it, it's the empathy engine, if you will, that creates the connection that allows the, the next stage to happen. And, um, if I'm honest with myself, And I've shared this publicly before, so it's not going to be new to my audience, but every major decision or every bad decision I ever made, things that cost me millions of dollars, cost me important relationships, all came from emotional dysregulation. Because it's like I make a choice in that moment when I'm hot. Maybe it was like to fire off a rapid response to something that just pissed me off, right? Crazy part is 9 times out of 10, the thing that just pissed me off, I read it wrong. Like, it didn't even actually say what I thought it said.

Yeah, right.

So I've been taught myself to breathe. But, um, all those moments came out of dysregulation, like being up, being all of a sudden out of— um, I even call it being a bit of, um, an anxious out-of-body experience. You just, you just, you're ready to go, you know. It's, it's— and for me, my predisposition is when something like that— and this is where the fight fight, flight, freeze, and fawn come in. My natural predisposition is to fight. Like, I don't know what it is about me, but I think we probably share that at least at some level, um, where fighting comes easier than, than just being patient, you know.

But a soldier doesn't go to war until he's prepared for war, right?

Yeah.

So the problem is, is when we go unprepared, we're usually going to fail.

Yeah. Or fall. Yeah.

So at the end of the day, we have to think about it. And most of the times, the attack that we're trying to create isn't the attack that's needed. There's a good lesson that was learned a few weeks ago. My son calls me, he's like, Dad, you'll never guess what I just witnessed. I'm like, what? He goes, I'm sitting at a light and, uh, this guy's in a Toyota pickup truck and this old man, you know, rear-ends him. The guy in the pickup truck that got rear-ended gets out of the car Rips the old man out of the car and just starts beating him. Ambulance coming. It's like blood coming out of the guy's head. So this guy made an emotional decision. He's going to get locked up for the rest of his life for attempted murder because someone hit your car.

Yeah.

At a red light, like bumped into you, right? So I asked my son, what was the lesson learned? He goes, well, the guy— the way that guy reacted was out of control. And he hurt somebody else for something that didn't even matter. So the lesson is always like, what was taught to you based on the experience? And I think when we see it in the outside perspective of it not being us— because a lot of us, someone hits us, we want to ultimately get mad.

Yeah, yeah.

For me, I don't know, whatever. Like, I've got— listen, I had some lady cut up in front of me. I had a brand new truck I had just built. She blew the whole tire off the truck. Anything— I got— you all She's like, you're not mad? I go, I'm alive.

Yeah.

You know, and people are like, how are you so tame?

Yeah.

I'm like, when you go through that, yeah, you realize it's not worth it.

Yeah.

You know, so I actually, at the— in Jersey, there's— we have a farm. So I have lambs, I have cows, I have all that stuff. And one thing that I've learned is this, right? So I have a house on the water, one house on the water. And when you come here, what's crazy is when you travel, And you come here and you look out there. Every problem that you had before you came home has escaped because this is serenity. This is peace. So I had that at the shore. And then you get a farm and you go there and you've got cows and you've got goats and you've got sheep. And you realize, you go out there, what are the 2 things that they want you to do? Love them and feed them.

Mm-hmm.

They don't care about your problems. They don't care about what's going on. They don't care if you're having a bad day. They're still going to come up to you because they want you to pet them and they want you to love them. That's why a dog's man's best friend.

Yeah.

The dog doesn't know what you're going through, but the dog knows he wants to be there for you.

Yeah.

So living in this life of just peace has really brought me to a place that 99% of things that we worry about don't happen, and 99% of things that we make up in our head—

Yeah.

Are our own problems.

Yeah.

You know, so how do you deal with that? You journal, you read, you get yourself ready so the world can't attack you before you're ready for it.

Is there a moment in time where strength cost you when surrender could have saved you?

Plenty of times. Plenty of times, you know. And I, I look at all the different things where you want to be strong. You don't want to admit that you're failing. You don't want to admit that, you know, things are going backwards because you got too much pride. Ego and pride, you know, will hurt you. And if you don't put that in your back pocket and you want to show up like a hero.

Yeah.

You know, one day you're going to be diminished to nothing.

Yeah.

So there's been many, many times in my life. And then I started realizing this, you know, as my kids got older, you know, and I think about my childhood a lot because I remember when I was a kid, you know, I was told, you know, children are supposed to be seen, not heard. So I wasn't allowed to be upset, be— cry. I sat in a closet, drew, built Legos. That was my escape. But then as I started having kids, I realized like, I want you to cry. It's okay to have feelings, you know, but so you process them. Yeah. But I as an adult had anger, had things that I was dealing with because I wasn't able to process it as a kid. But then when I had kids and I would find myself like being the wrong dad— why are you crying?

Stop.

No, that's not who you need to be.

Yeah.

So I just feel like we, especially men like us, like where we come in this strong world.

Yeah.

We're like, we intimidate even our loved ones.

Yeah.

But that's not our job. Our job is to protect them.

Yeah.

So how do they see the difference of the protector versus the intimidator? And we have to catch ourselves sometimes because we know what's right. Yeah. But we know how to— we need to know how to be the right way to say it or the right way to do it, because sometimes we don't do it the right way.

That's so true. You know, it also has me thinking a little bit in this moment of intimidation, right? So, um, after extensive work— like, this is me doing, you know, family systems therapy and, you know, all these different types of things— um, even today, like, not even trying to, uh, my team at times has said, I'm— we're— we still feel intimidated. Like, not that I'm being aggressive or whatever, but it has, has a lot to do with, um— We've discovered At least the new version of me has been largely in play for the last 3 years. In the earliest versions of me, I was very dominant and controlling and all the things like 20 years ago. And there's everything in between. Right. But we've discovered that there's a point in time where intimidation just becomes authority. And people who struggle with their own worth and their own stuff are naturally intimidated by people who carry authority.

Yeah.

You know, and so what I want— but what I've tried to do to make sure I temper the lamb as much as I do the lion, uh, internally is I try to bring awareness to what, you know, the mature lamb is going to do. Like, you know, collaboration, connectivity, listening before speaking. And I find that a lot of high-capacity leaders, um, listening is a, is a skill that has to be cultivated over time, you know. And I don't know, it's just— it has me thinking a lot more about— we call it the Integrated Alignment Method, like the way of integrating the mature versions of self so you can carry strength and surrender simultaneously. You know, when we're looking at Falling Your Way Uphill, I know it releases November of this year, which I'm excited about. Where can everybody find the book once it releases?

It'll be on Amazon. It'll be on my website. Yeah. FallingYourWayUphill.com. If they want to go now, early release pricing, they can go register. They'll get an email. When a book comes out, they'll get an early release price. So followingyourwayuphill.com. So I'm just— I'm excited about this because people go, why would you write a book about yourself? I go, I didn't write a book about myself. I wrote a book about situations, and I told you how I dealt with them myself. And I ask you questions, and I challenge you as the reader.

Yeah.

To see where these things have happened in your life. I just happen to use my greatest failures which have turned into my greatest victories.

Yeah.

And I want to show you that the reason why you're paralyzed and stuck in life is because of the way that you're looking or thinking about certain situations. And I just want to show you a different way of looking at it.

Now, I know you also got a little bit of room for a handful of more like close clients. Not, not a lot of room, but a little bit of room. If everybody wants to like learn more about working with you one-on-one, where do they do that?

bigdcoaching.com. Uh, you'll see everything about me. You'll see client testimonials. You'll see everything that we have going on. And, um, you know, the biggest thing is don't contact me unless you're willing to do the work.

I tell people that all the time, you know, the same thing.

It's like— Because at the end of the day, I don't want— I don't want to hear your bullshit. I don't want to hear your excuses. When you're ready to execute, yeah, call me, because we're going to do the work and we're going to collapse time. And I'm going to challenge you more than anyone in your life has ever challenged you. But I promise you, you're going to come out the other end. A different person.

That's— I love it, man. All right, so we've been starting this new thing on the show and we call it Rapid Fire Round. Um, they end up being fun, fun bites, but, uh, I'm gonna go through a few of them. And so first thing pops in your mind, okay? All right, number 1, discipline or motivation?

Discipline.

Why?

Because discipline is a level of all self and it allows you to get to higher levels where motivation doesn't last. Motivation will be dissolved within 30 seconds.

So true. That's why people go to these events all the time and come back and don't do anything.

Real quick, I hate when people say you're a motivator, you're a motivational speaker. I go, there's no such thing. People title themselves as motivational speakers. Motivation is self. Yeah, we inspire. Yeah, you know, you can't do it unless you do the work. We can inspire you to do it, but you have to be motivated to show up.

Inspiration always precedes application, for sure. All right, best money you ever lost?

Best money or most money?

No, best. I got best money. We'll go best money. You can, you can tie them together if you want to. Best money you ever lost.

Um, amount, like the amount.

I, you know, for me, when I, when I answered the, this one, my own, uh, best money I ever lost was actually money that taught me the wisdom I now carry. Like, so when I, um, the— I lost $1.7 million during an embezzlement, but it taught me a whole lot more about how I wasn't operating a company correctly. And how I, and I'll— how I, my leadership, opened that up for that, um, that to take place. So that's my example. Okay.

So I would just say best money I ever lost was all of it because it took all of it to show me that I didn't need any of it.

That's good. That's real good. All right. One book every owner should read that's not yours.

Who Not How.

Who Not How. Okay. Who was the, who was the author of that?

Dan Sullivan.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Hire slow or fire fast?

Fire fast.

Why?

Because even though you hire slow, you have a process. So when I'm hiring someone or I teach my people to hire something— someone, there's a full process of how you're going to hire these people. They're answering questions. Your core values are in there. You're literally giving them the dialog of what you're looking for. 2 or 3 interviews in, good. They show up, they know what you expect. If they're not doing it, find the next person. Yeah, because you're already telling them, as long as your process of hiring is evaluating and eliminating the things that you need and don't want and how they're going to be able to be structured in your company, you've done the work already.

Yeah.

So your fast hiring is already done, but firing them fast because you think you could change people, because most people don't show up The way they say they will.

Yeah. It's really interesting, just to piggyback on that. One of the things I've discovered when it comes to hiring, most entrepreneurs or leaders can't actually articulate what it is they're actually trying to hire for correctly. They don't spend any time and energy into it. Hey, position's open. We need somebody to do this role. Go find. But they can't say, well, I need this person to operate this way personality-wise, care about the things that we care about. This is how they tactically need to do the role. This is the experience they need to have at doing this role. Um, they, they don't go through that exercise. And then that, uh, compounds, at least from my perspective, when, um, now it comes time to hold them accountable, right? And start thinking, okay, well, do I need to let this person go? And you can't even go back to prove they were ever trained to begin with.

One of my clients texted me this morning. He's got 3 brand new hires filling a role position of, you know, his key guy. And now it's a process of elimination, but, you know, he's not going to hire them fast. Yeah, he's going to take on one, and if it's not working, you've got 2 behind. So I always say, yeah, get a multitude, and then you've got a back burner of what you can do and how you can fill the space.

Yeah. All right, next, uh, next one. Um, most overrated business advice. Most overrated business advice.

Work harder.

That's my favorite. Yay! I believe hustle culture has to die. Um, because, uh, I always say that, uh, anxious activity is not productivity.

Yeah. And I hate to like work smarter, not harder. Like, what does that mean? You heard that. What does that mean?

Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's just be intentional is the best business advice you can have. Be intentional.

Yeah, that's it. Be intentional and followed by discipline every time. Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Some— something you were wrong about last year. Something you were wrong about last year.

My income this year.

Oh, that's funny. All right, I think I know the answer to this one. The last one here, uh, lion or lamb, which one comes easier?

Lion.

Hmm, yeah, I could, I could see that.

But the lamb though, um, before I tell people, like, my soft side's a hidden secret. Most people say when they first meet me, they think I'm a dick, but they go, when we actually get to know you, you're an amazing person, because I've got this wall.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, I feel like, you know, it's just like you, you know, you, you don't want to let people into your house. You don't want to let people into your world, you know. But once you do, you open up your world to them. And yeah, for us it's tough, especially in a space, in a place that we are.

Yeah. Well, and unfortunately in this particular space too, if, you know, just to be honest with the public, not everybody is who they say they are.

Sure.

Um, we were talking a little bit last night that there's, uh, a good bit of more what I call covert covert-level narcissism in this industry. And you don't know that unless you get to be around people, like, continually in green rooms and all kinds of stuff. Um, you know, so yeah, so I think there's a, there's a, there's a reason to, to have a, um, at least a, a vetting gate up, if that makes any sense.

Yeah.

Yeah. What I've discovered about you since just meeting you is you're definitely very direct. Right? You believe everything. You believe wholeheartedly what you're sharing and how you're saying it. But I've never seen you not one time not operate in love. Not one time. It may not— it may not say, well, sweetie, hey, honey pie, that— but it's like, it's like, bro, you're still trying to impress your dad.

Yeah. I'm gonna tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Exactly.

But I'm going to give you grace.

Exactly.

Because I understand that every single person doesn't realize their position. Yeah. Until they're checked.

Yeah. Well, the other thing that you also bring to the table that that I don't know was captured. And one of the reasons I wanted to kind of have this conversation the way we had it today was to capture it, because there's a whole side of you that I want to share with the world. And it's the side of you that says, not only am I going to be very direct with you and be honest with you, because I'm going to give you what you need to hear. We were having conversations last night at dinner with people at the table that needed to hear specific things that weren't coming from us necessarily, right?

Right.

So there's just certain points in time, there's something you need to hear to be the catalyst moment to have you make the shift you need to make, right, to actually become the highest, best version of yourself, right? But there's this other side of you that says, the reason I know this is because this is where I did it wrong.

Mm-hmm.

Right? There's a humility that you carry that I hope we've done a good job of sharing with the audience today, because there's nothing I've heard you talk about on social or your own show or anything that is not authentic-based and experience-based fact.

Right, right.

You know, so you can see patterns. I think, I think one of the reasons, um, I get my good friend of mine, Henry Ammar— I probably should connect you guys at some point in time when he turns his podcast back on— but, um, he always says that if you caught it, you got it, or if you see it, you got it.

Yeah.

Like, if you can see that tangible in someone else, you actually have that same quality, which is why you're attracted to that quality.

Yeah, right.

And, and all the time that, uh, we've gotten to know each other so far, we got more, many more years. I got a fast friend, of course, is like No, Dan's out there really trying to serve people.

Yeah, my highest level. And that's with the book. So I talk about when it was my fault, when it was out of my control. I talk about all the things like a lot of times I own up to certain things or the way I thought about it. Maybe I was wrong and whatever. Even my marriage, I talk about my marriage and how it failed and why. And I take personal responsibility for every single chapter.

Yeah.

And that's the biggest deficit in most people's life.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to take personal accountability for what's going on in their life. No matter what's going on, we play a part of it.

Yeah.

Whether it was our decision or not, we play a part of it. And personal accountability will take you to levels that other things never can.

Yeah. You know what's really interesting? And I know we'll wrap this up, but one of the things that's really interesting to me is oftentimes we take on responsibility for things that we shouldn't, and we don't take responsibility for things that we should.

Exactly.

I'm not sure how Um, to really reconcile that except to just take extreme levels of accountability.

Yeah. Right?

Where, where do I need to hold myself accountable? Like, where did I not show up for my, my son? Where did I not have the conversation in the right way? Where did I not express myself with diligence and love? Where did I overspend money? Like, where, where did I overinvest? Or, um, where did I self-abandon? Like, these are the questions that You know, that I've been walking through the last couple years is I'm like, okay, I'm not going to self-abandon anymore. I'm not going to jump in and save people even though I have resources and ways to do that. I'm going to lead them to the information that they need and I'm gonna let it go, right?

Yeah. My dad was an enabler for my brother. I enabled my brother too by giving him jobs, giving him chance after chance after chance. You can read about that in the book too. So, you know, the problem is I don't enable anyone. I don't even enable my kids. I tell my kids, you're going to learn that, you're going to do that.

Yeah.

Because if we go out there and simply do but don't teach or don't show, we are the ones who create the end result and the problem.

For sure. One final question for you. Is there something on your heart that you've been dying to talk more about publicly that you haven't had a chance to talk about? And if so, what is it?

So I talk about my faith, you know, I don't talk about faith and put it down people's throats. But I've been more open about it and just helping people. So for me, you know, people who go out there and wear Jesus shirts and do this and do that, like false prophets, in my opinion, you know, wolves in sheep's clothing.

Okay.

For me, I just want to see how I can help you and what I'm there for. And then I listen. So you talked about something important last night, which is something I do. I listen. Why am I here? What should I— what's my assignment? And then I serve. So, and I use it, I do everything with grace. And I really try to give people love.

Yeah.

Because I knew what it was like for 40-something years to do things without love. And it's really important for us to serve outside of us, but do God's work.

Yeah.

Because it's going to take us to levels that we'll never be able to achieve nor show up to. Yeah. Unless we do it that way.

Yeah. It's, I think there's another undertone here that you and I both resonate. on, and that's we, we can't stand hypocrisy. Like, if you're gonna— if you're gonna be a duck, be a duck, right? Right. So if you're gonna be— so I don't have a problem with believers wearing, you know, wearing garments and all the things, and like, but you better be like, be walking it.

Oh yeah, I don't have a problem with it either. Like, you know, but at the end of the day, like, making it your presence, and like, if you have to shove something down someone's throat Oftentimes it's not real.

Well, not only is it not real, it's not effective, right? Um, I, I was led to my faith after studying all kinds of other forms of, um, levels of faith, religion, all kinds of stuff for a decade, right? Atheist, being an atheist for a while included. And, um, what is funny, what opened me up to and what allowed me to eventually have my experience with Jesus and, and things of that nature was actually love.

Mm-hmm.

My grandfather told me one time, um, I remember going to his house and, uh, we were joking around. He's like, well, if, you know, evolution's real by itself, then how can we have all these monkeys still running around, right? Joking around. And then, um, and I— so I made that— made this comment about dinosaurs and evolution and all this kind of stuff. And he said, he said, son, he goes, I love you, I really do, but sometimes you have to dig past the answers that you want.

Right.

You have to go and do that. Last night, we were able to jam a little bit as a bit of a family table, and we were jamming on Hebrew and Paleo-Hebrew and all this kind of stuff. And, it was that comment with my grandfather that sent me down that rabbit trail of really understanding where things come from, where things originated, and how things have been not twisted but maybe not fully defined over time that really opened up my heart. You know, and then now we get to use that, those materials now to help other people in their, in their moment of transition.

Why, why does it happen that every single— like last night we talked about some stuff, I came back before I went to bed, I do my readings, I open up my books. And why is it that everything we talked about was in that book in that day? Name that day. It's— I didn't read that book before I went out. I read it before I go to bed.

Yeah.

And then every day when I open that book at the end of the day, it's what I went through in my Yeah.

Yeah.

How does that happen? You know, because there's an architect, we're listening to his plan and we're following, but it didn't happen before. And it did, but we just weren't open to looking.

Yeah.

You know, we were confusing the two.

Yeah.

And the messages were so twisted.

Well, and we also, and then that's how we get trapped to thinking it's all about us, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, dude. No, this has been fun, man. I love you, man. Thanks for making the drive down now, you know, and then kind of hanging out with us. Uh, yeah, the more and more we get to know each other, the more and more I'm like, oh yeah, I can see why Dana was so pressing. Like, we gotta You got to hang out. You got to do this. And, uh, super excited to be hanging out with you here at the end of the month in September 2026 as well. Yeah, up in Jersey, man. I appreciate the invite to let me share with your community, and, um, I'll bring as much value as I possibly can for you.

All right, bro. Appreciate you.

Yeah, awesome. Okay, guys, that's going to do it for this episode of One Part Lion, One Part Lamb. As always, uh, here's the thing. Here's what we're seeing growth-wise. We're seeing that each and every time we do one of these episodes, uh, many of you are now sharing an episode with a friend because there's always something specific you're like, oh, the moment that Jimmy pops up in your head or Jane pops up in your head or whatever, that's an indicator that they need to see and/or listen to this episode. And we put a lot of time and energy in here to give you the most valuable content we possibly can. So please do us a favor. Please like, share, subscribe. If you're on the Apple and Spotify podcast, we love 5-star rating and comments. Every now and again, we'll select one of you guys and do something special. So we put that out there as well. But in the meantime, if you love this podcast, would you do us a favor? Would you go ahead and click right here for the next one? And more importantly, if you want more direct one-on-one training, you can click right here for this next video. Until then, we'll take care. God bless.

Peace.