Former NAVY SEAL Reveals How To Be A LEADER & INSPIRE ACTION! | Errol Doebler

What I really came to believe was that if you are looking to get better at leadership, sure there are certain things you need to do, but in the end, it is to empower you to learn how to make decisions. It is to empower you to learn about yourself. So then you can project, if you will. You can project your own power, not impose your power, project your power.

Welcome to Stuck to Unstoppable, where we interview the world's four foremost thought leaders to break things down in order to help you get past your hurts, habits and hangups and finally level up and move forward. I'm your host, Stephen Scoggins. Now let's go ahead and get into today's guest and our featured conversation. You're not going to want to miss it. My special guest today has the grit, tenacity and the experience to teach us all about the process. As the assistant former SEAL team commander of SEAL Team 4 and the platoon commander of SEAL Team 1, Errol Dobler went on to extend his career with the FBI, serving as the FBI New York SWAT Team. Not only that, his experience and wisdom kept him on growing, attaching himself TO United States 75th Army Regiment while serving simultaneously as a special agent for the FBI. Now his career was so unstoppable that he went on to be recognized with the FBI's second highest award for valor, the Shield of Bravery. Errol has worked with Fortune 100 companies, professional sports, professional startups, and not to mention that he is a business executive himself as an entrepreneur, actually creating the leader 193 factor. Help me welcome future New York Times bestselling author and speaker, Errol Dobler. Errol, what's going on, man? How you doing?

Not much. It's good to. It's good to see you, Stephen. I'm happy to be on this show. Looking forward to it. I appreciate it.

We're gonna have a blast for sure. So where are you at in the world nowadays? You still up in New York or are you still traveling around?

No, no, I'm in South Jersey now. Just a little town out called Ocean City, New Jersey, down in the southern tip there. It's a nice little family community. So, yeah, we're about four miles from the ocean and so it's good place to raise the kids. So that's where we are right now.

That's awesome. Is raising kids a lot like combat or is it a little easier?

Boy, boy, I tell you, you can make the parallels, right, because you've got to get those emotions under control. You've got to have situational Awareness. Yeah. Got to understand what your mission is, otherwise you're gonna have bad decisions going on. So, you know, with the obvious exceptions, the thought process is pretty similar.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's funny, I love to equate life to, you know, boardrooms and then combat and all this kind of stuff, you know, And I know you're incredibly well versed. Everything from combat to, you know, BUDS training, obviously platoon. Platoons and all this kind of stuff. How did you actually get involved? I mean, what made you decide to go the seals route? I actually have a young man right now that I'm actually mentoring a little bit who's got his heart set on the seals. So he wants to, he wants to go be part of it, so.

Yeah. Well, good. You know, that's, it's. So look, this was back in, you know, I entered the SEAL teams back in 1993, so, you know, Internet and all that stuff wasn't around. So the first time I became exposed to it was just, I think, heck, I couldn't have been more than seventh or eighth grade. Right. My next door neighbors were a Naval Academy family and they just bought over a book, kind of a promotional book on the Naval Academy. And inside of it, it went through some of the service selections that were available when you graduated. And the seals, at that time, there was a paragraph about them and it wasn't even a cool looking picture. It was just a bunch of guys standing around in their, you know, tiny underwater demolition team shorts. But, you know, just as I read the description, it was fairly vague, but it was like, well, this seems. Why is this so vague? So special about this and what's with the water and so fast forward, you know, when time came to pick a college to go to and kind of where I was, I was like, well, let's try the Naval Academy. And then once I got there, that was, that was the goal. Even though I didn't get seals right out of school, I had to go on a ship first, which is, you know, which is a great experience for me. Really made me appreciate getting to the SEAL teams. But that, that was it. Just that one little thing that happens that kind of sticks with you. You kind of lose it subconscious and then it just flies out and there, there you are. Next thing I know, I'm at Bud's training.

Yeah. Which, and we all know BUDS is not the easiest place to. Easiest place to be in the world. But, you know, the selection process was 70, 78, 75% fail out of buds or get injured out of buds.

They get, it's a 70% attrition rate. So, you know, seven out of 10 will quit. And that, that varies from class to class. It's not consistent. So for example, my class, and this is not a, you know, me walking two miles uphill in the snow story, but it's, it is what it is. So I had a, I had a, I had a winter class. So our class started in January and so look, it gets cold out in San Diego. We started with 200 and by the end of hell week, which is, which is early in the 26 week training and I think week four, maybe week five now, I don't know if they move it around a little bit, but it's early. We were down to 10. So, you know, so a class like that, which winter classes do that kind of that whatever that percentage is. But then, you know, the summer classes, they'll still get quitters, but it's just not quite as brutally cold. And it's usually the cold and the combination of water that gets.

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty uncomfortable being in what, I guess in the, in the wintertime it's probably what, pushing the high 40s in the, in the, in the summer it's what in the high, maybe low 60s, high 50s.

The water.

Yeah, Pacific.

Yeah, the water will be. I don't think it gets, I don't think it gets down to the 40s. I think, I think it's the, it might be like the high 50s. Yeah. And low 60s. And then, you know, in the summertime it'll go up. It's still cold in the summer the Pacific Ocean is pretty cold. But you know, that's, that's plenty cold when you're just sitting there and just lying in it and then, you know, you have to get out, then you're cold, then you get back in. So it's, it's, that's plenty cold.

Yeah, they don't make it easy on you guys, that's for sure.

So that's, that's the point though, right? That's the point. They want to, you know, the whole idea in that first phase, broken into three phases, that, the whole idea in that first phase is to literally get you quit. To quit. It's not even to teach you anything. You don't learn anything about being a SEAL in the first six weeks of training. It's literally just to see who's, who's going to stick it out and. Yeah, that's what it's for.

Well, once you graduate Buds, there's a whole nother selection process before we even join a platoon. Right?

Yeah. So they've changed that a little bit and for the better. They go from. Right from buds and they. I can't. I don't know what they call it, but then they send all the new graduates to buds and they go through a hole. That's where they go through the real advanced training. And then you get your trot. You get your trident awarded if you complete that. I'm not even sure how long it is. I think it's pretty extensive, which, as you would imagine. And then you join your platoon where when I went in, you'd leave buds, they sent you to jump school right away. Then you went to your team and in each team had a different process for awarding you your trident. And so, yeah, some were easier than others. And so they just, they just standardized it, which was. Which I think was a good move.

You know, I'm just curious, is that, you know, you have a unique spin on the difference between training and empowerment or how they're. How they kind of coalesce. Is that something you picked up for your military service or is that something you picked up, you know, when you started transitioning more to the civilian side, or has it been, you know, something that you've kind of looked at along the way?

Yeah, you know, I put a lot of thought into those words. Right. You don't want to. You know, we're in the business of helping people. Right. And words, the words matter. They need to mean something. But then as you put it together, you realize it's. It's hard to come up with those words that represent what you do. And you're not stop being cliche, ish, or trying to, you know, you're just figuring out a way to stand out. But, you know.

What I really came to believe was that if you are looking to get better at leadership, sure, there are certain things you need to do, but in the end, it is to empower you to learn how to make decisions. It is to empower you to learn about yourself. So then you can project, if you will, you can project your own power, not impose your power. Project your power in a way that's very methodical, in a way that's very unemotional by way of understanding your emotions. The person who does that, okay, is empowered to influence everything around them. And I believe that wholeheartedly. Did I pick that up in the SEAL teams? Most of what I picked up, most of what I held on to leadership comes. Comes from the SEAL teams because it is an. It Is a. It is a great culture now. It's not without its faults. Yeah, it's not to say it's perfect, but no culture is. But over the overriding things that are done in the SEAL teams, as far as that goes, are really, really good for everybody. And I took those. That stuff into the private sector when I left the SEAL teams, I took it to the FBI. And I certainly now, you know, use it as a mainstay for what I do in helping leaders become better.

So I think one of the interesting things about leadership, you know, I typically see three phases of leadership. So there's the aspiring leader who doesn't really know how to lead. He is trying to assume that, you know, trying to put forth that power and impose that power or kind of on the quote unquote power trip. The next phase, maybe this leaders had a little bit of humbling. Now they're questioning kind of their own insecurities and their own identity and kind of going through that thing. And there's another crushing phase there. And then there's the third phase, which is, okay, now they're a solid developing leader. And one of the things that I see throughout the courses of those different leaderships is this selfishness to more selflessness approach to leadership. I assume that with your, you know, with your 193 coaching, one of the things that you help these leaders do more than anything else, especially after looking at some of your content, is you help them move very quickly, I might add, through the selfishness phase, over to the selflessness phase where people are following them because they want to, not because they have to.

Yeah, it's. I think I agree with your assessment of the leadership phases, but if you really look at it, aren't those the phases of just adults? Of good adults? Right. You know, and some people, Some people move out of it and some people don't. And just like leaders, some, you know, as a father, you especially. Mostly fathers. Right. Because fathers are used to kind of doing their own thing where men were pretty selfish beings. And then all of a sudden we get, you know, we get a wife, and all of a sudden it's not just quite about us. And we're kind of battling that a little bit. So we make the compromise and then you have a child and then it's over.

Then there is, you know, there. You have to get to that middle stage because you just won't survive. So. Yes. And I just think.

It'S a maturity route. And it's a maturity route in a specific field. Right. You can be a very mature adult or individual and still be an immature leader. Because you're going to have those insecurities as a leader. You're going to realize that you don't have all the answers and you're going to realize that you're going to make mistakes and you're going to realize that people just don't like you regardless of what you do. And to be able to absorb that, right, to absorb all those emotions, understand how you're acting on them, and then with a very critical, objective eye, without judgment, assess it. Here's how I'm feeling, here's how this is making me feeling, here's how I'm acting on that. Now what should I do? What adjustments do I need to make? So that awareness is very important and that's what new leaders lack. Yeah, they, they lack the awareness that comes with understanding. This is way harder than I thought it was going to be.

Well, I know one of the things that I struggle with, you know, as an early leader expect, you know, when I built obviously a couple of good sized companies from scratch, like I didn't have any money, you know, I didn't have the ability to get credit or anything. Right. So, you know, one of the things that I very quickly learned about my leadership specifically is no one actually taught me how to be a leader. So everything that I did was completely shooting from the hip, you know, because I thought I was the guy. I thought that everybody that, you know, because at the end of the day I would look around like, who can I ask a question to? There's nobody here, but yet I'm getting. Yeah, it does. And I think that's an important facet because I think especially people who aspire to be great leaders have to kind of, I know it's kind of cliche, but become comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, at the same time, it's also one of my defining principles of defining moments as a leader myself and developing as a leader was getting to the point where I was okay with letting people know that I didn't have it figured out, but I was willing to go get the answers.

Yep. Yeah. And that is that, that's the human side to it. Right. And that's, and that's exactly what we talked about. The, the ability to say, I don't know and then in the next breath say, but I'll go find out. Not a big deal. That, that's, that's nothing but a credibility builder. I'll share a story with you. The.

Yeah, please.

When we, when I was in the SEAL teams, we did this thing called close quarters battle, right? Just like you see on tv. We go into a house, we move from room to room to room to go get the bad guy, save the good guys. And what I had seen, you know, as a young officer was the person in charge directing everybody. You go here, you go here, two people here. Everything had to wait for me. And, you know, it just. It never felt right, never felt smooth, but it's what I saw. And one day, and I had a very good relationship with my platoons, and one day, one. And one of the guys came up to me and said, I have to ask you a question. Why do you feel the need to tell us where to go all the time? Now, it's a pretty easy question, but the answer was scary because in my mind the answer was, well, if I don't tell you where to go, if you don't need me to tell you what to do, what good am I as the leader? Yeah, that's how I felt. And that was my ego getting in the way. That was some inexperience getting in the way. That was selfishness getting in the way. And I had a decision. What was I going to say to him? Because I could have just done the. Just do what I tell you. Just, this is the way we do it. Right. I could have done that. That would have been disastrous. Instead, I just told him the truth. I told him exactly what I just told you. And he started laughing. Now, when they start laughing, you don't know what they're laughing at, right? So you've. I've got to maintain my composure here. Like, okay, what is he laughing at? Is he laughing at me? Like, yeah, you're right, we don't need you. Or is he laughing at something else? So I waited for him to stop laughing. And he goes, sir, he goes, we need you for other stuff because we need you to make the big decisions. Yeah. So just let us do it.

Yeah.

And. And so. And I'm not saying by any means, I invented or we invented the kind of silent close quarters battle.

Yeah.

But I hadn't seen anybody doing it. Now, I know other team, you know, platoons had been doing. They had to because it was too obvious, but I hadn't seen it. And so I said, fine, what do you think? And he said, just let us flow, let us flow and you just follow. And if there's something that you see that you don't like or there's a major decision that has to be made and there's more of them than you would think. He goes, then chime in, otherwise, let's go, let us talk. And boy, that changed everything. We, we became so much better at what we were doing because then we have just applied that to everything. And little unbeknownst to me, because while my fear was I will get less respect if I am not showing everybody how much I know, the respect I got from the men in my platoon skyrocketed. It was unbelievable just from that one conversation. So I met. Oh yeah. So, yeah, the question, right, Telling people, I don't know that vulnerability, okay, but that comes from only one place. That comes from recognizing an emotion. You have to be at home with recognizing that you have to be aware because the emotions drive our actions. And then you've got to make decisions, fine, what behaviors do I want to employ? And then all of a sudden you start doing that. Then things start happening.

Well, one of the things I appreciate about great leadership and you just got to be doing it, which is this transparent vulnerability of saying, hey, look, here's a time I didn't have it all figured out, but here's what I learned from it, you know, And I think that speaks volumes to people. So I see two things in the story that you just shared. First of all, I want to come back to how you chose to conquer it, because I think that that's a choice to kind of face it and kind of conquer it. But secondly, you gave your team the power to lead. You know, it's no secret that great leadership begats great leadership. And when you lead well, you give other people the responsibility of learning to lead well and making mistakes. I know as an early leader myself, for a long time, I felt like if anybody made a mist that I took it on the chin personally that I didn't do my job as a leader, not realizing that I was get. I was taking away the opportunity for them to develop a sharper skill set. Is that one of the things that you faced?

Yeah, so it's, that's, you know, there's, there's a lot to unpack in just that, that little assessment you just made. And it's, it's absolutely true. One of the challenges that leaders face is they're afraid that if they kind of delegate authority, right, Decentralize that decision making process, that they're going to lose control over everything.

And what I tell them is, and one of the elements to my leadership process is the planning process. You have to have plans. And if you have plans as a leader, how do you give initiative and autonomy? You Say the acronym is smac. Situation, Mission Actions, Contingencies, Command Communication. It's a straight ripoff from the SEAL team. Nothing I invented. I just bought it with me and the silk. Yeah, right. And we watered down and modified, but it's applicable to everything. So me as the leader, I'm there to identify the situation, right? Set of circumstances dictating a need for action and the mission.

Yeah.

And then I tell my people, tell me how you're going to accomplish that mission. You are already instilling initiative and autonomy, Right? We are doing all the things you just said. We are teaching them how to already lead. Then before they start acting, they tell me the plan, right? I get final right of refusal. That's my job as a leader. I may see things that don't, don't mesh somewhere, but once they tell me the plan, yeah, okay. I say go now. Inside that planning process is a communications plan. I need my updates. Whatever you decide it is, I want to hear from you at the end of every day or I want an update every Tuesday at 4:00 clock for 10 minutes to discuss these things. Whatever it is, it's still incumbent upon you as the leader to ensure you're getting those updates. You do that. You are now instilling that initiative and autonomy in your team. You are creating thinkers and doers and you are maintaining that 30,000 foot view where you can make small targeted adjustments because you're getting consistent feedback. It is as quote, unquote, simple as that. But it's hard to do because leaders don't want to give that control. Right. They're afraid.

Well, I mean, it comes down to pride and ego, unfortunately, when that happens. And I think what those leaders need more than anything else is what we've been talking about for probably the last 10 minutes, which is the permission, the permission to not have to be the IT guy. The permission to be the encourager, not the destroyer. The permission to dig a little deeper. You know, I know we both believe in kind of go within yourself, look, look and see what can be, you know, improved and amplified ahead of time and kind of, and then come out kind of scenario. You know, I think that those are, those are elements of leadership that especially, you know, in, in the civilian world, more, more so than anything else that I, that I, that I personally see it.

Everybody's trying to get ahead, get ahead, get ahead, get ahead, get ahead. Not realizing that in order to get ahead, you have to lift the door, team, not yourself.

Yeah. And once again, it is a, there's an IMMATURITY factor. And again, I say leadership immaturity. Not as. As an individual. There's just also not understanding the basic tenets of leadership. There is a. And it's. Look, it's not perfect in the SEAL teams. It's not perfect in the military. It's not perfect in the FBI. It's, you know, and I'm. It's definitely not perfect in the FBI.

I'm pretty honest about my frustrations leaving the FBI with their leadership. But.

It'S definitely not perfect. And you're gonna make your mistakes. And people are. They're afraid to ask. And one of the things that I see as I coach civilian leaders is when I put these things forward after we get past the emotions and your own personal culture and having to be aware of that, because that. Oh, they get. They really struggle with that. But that's. That's the genesis for everything. When I start telling people, they ask about accountability. Right. I say, well, here's the first thing. You can't hold someone accountable if they don't know what they're supposed to be accountable to. And you need to start that by identifying the behaviors. That's one of the elements of my process guidelines for behavior has nothing to do with your widget. Right. You didn't change how you made market or soldier widget, but you behaved in these ways. I think behaviors made you a better engineer. These behaviors made you a better IT leader. Right. Whatever it is, made you a better father or mother or whatever it is. These behaviors, that's the first thing. Because that's where you will get. That's where problems will come. Not industry specific problems. Behavioral problems.

Yeah.

So that's the first thing. Have you made it clear what you're going to hold them accountable to from a behavioral standpoint? Second part, accountability. The elements of a planning process make it clear what everybody will be held accountable to. This is our mission. Very clear. Everybody clear on that? Here are the actions we take. Here's in charge of each action. Now, the point I'm getting to is that requires just those little things I said, requires you as a leader to actually tell somebody something.

Yeah.

I am asking you as part of a requirement that we do these behaviors. I am telling you this is the thing you need to do to accomplish this mission. And people say, well, that's. I'm not a dictator.

Yeah.

Right. Or I want people just to kind of figure it out on their own. I said, okay, good. Good luck with having them figure it out on their own. That's called a leaderless or rudderless ship. Okay.

People just go bad.

Yeah. So that is your job as a leader. To identify what people will be held accountable to, whether it's a behavioral line or a very specific part of initiative. That is just simply your job. The second. And again, it doesn't mean you're screaming at people to do it.

Yeah.

Right. Whatever is in your personality. But hey, folks, here's our plan, and here's who's going to be in charge of what, blah, blah, blah. And I want you to tell me how you're going to finish this up. Any questions? That is not dictatorial. That is your job as a leader. Now, when somebody doesn't do something.

Yeah.

You can hold them accountable. Holding somebody accountable is nothing more than asking them a question. Why did you or didn't you do this? You just. I've just held you accountable. You will either have a good answer or not. If you continue to have bad answers, then we move to consequence. So, you know.

That'S the very simple formula, but very difficult to execute.

Absolutely. You know, it's interesting. You know, one of the things that I've in kind of the formula that you just laid out, it translates very well to military life, civilian life in your home, everything. That's one of the things I love the most about it. The other thing that I find myself doing, one of the techniques that I, that I've chosen to use with my. Specifically my leaders. Right. So my leaders are in charge of leading other people on a consistent basis, is I'm trying to get them to the place where they do what I do for them, which is I allow them to set their own deadlines. So here's the mission, here's the expectation, here's where we're trying to go. Here are the objectives. When can you handle your six objectives? When can you handle your subjectives? What can you handle your six objectives? What is your timeline? And I find that when I do that, that way, all the accountability and responsibility weighs more on their shoulders than mine. So when the question comes up week later, two months later, you know, three months later, and says, you know, all right, you completed four of your six, what happened with the other two?

And that's it. Ask the question, wait for the answer. Yeah. Because there's probably going to be a good answer. And if there's not a good answer, what you're going to learn more about what's happening. Maybe you have some training gaps, you have some knowledge gaps, maybe you have some personnel shortages that you didn't realize. It's you Know, and the other thing about deadline, Steven, I'm so glad you brought that up because that was the other thing, especially working with the IT folks. I work a lot with IT teams and they are. They are artists, right? If you think about it, they are making programs right there. They are using their imagination. There's a different million different ways to.

Do it, all ones and zeros. And they figure out.

A matrix.

That's right, the matrix. And they're figuring it all out. And they don't like to be necessarily told when, because, hey, I got to work this out. So I was working with an IT leader and he started just complaining to me that this project was just taking so long and this was in the very early stages. So you've got to pick which thing we're going to hit on that I think you'd be doing better. I said, so, well, when was it supposed to be done? Yeah, well, you know, I don't put deadlines on things.

He said to me.

And I said, that's interesting. I said, why not? And again, the same IT answer. Now, I thought he was an outlier. Turned out he was a dime a dozen with the theory. Well, I don't like to. People need to figure it out and they need to work freely and all this stuff. I said, okay, so how's it working out for you right now? He goes, well, what do you mean? I said, well, which iteration of the deadline, quote unquote, are we on? So, well, it's been going on a really long time. Every time I think it's done, it doesn't get done correctly. Then I say, well, we have to do it this way. And then they start again. And so that's happened a few times. And I said, so let me get this straight. You hire somebody, you pay them top dollar by the hour, you ask them to do something, they don't tell you when it's going to be done or how they're going to do it.

Yeah.

And then when they finally come back to you, they do it wrong. And they take a really long time to do it wrong. And then you just say. Then you just say, try it again. And that's happened several times. He said to me, yeah, that's about right. I said, how do I sign up for that job? Okay? And it was just that simple realization. I said, look, just trust me on this. Put a deadline on it. Put an arbitrary deadline on it. Okay, make it. But make it quick. And the reason behind that was because you're going to know if you say, I want to see this product in a week.

Yeah.

That person says to you, but I can't do it in a week. Why not? Well, they're not going to know. They're just going to say, because it just seems too short. Well, here's what happens in a week. You're going to have some real answers.

Yeah.

They either will have gotten it done. There you go. Congratulations. Or they're going to tell you why they can't do it in a week. And they're going to be able to tell you, here's how long I do need. They're going to be able to explain it. Boom, we win. So that little. When you said deadlines, that really. Because people hate putting deadlines. Oh, I'm a dictator.

Oh, my gosh. You know what? And that's the thing is, if you can, you can remove that whole dictator theology mindset by allowing them to make their.

That's right.

Basically create their own deadlines. Right. Now, if it's. If it's a ridiculous deadline, like, hey, I need you to close the books for the month of August. And they're like, okay, I'll have it done by October, then that's a problem. Right. You know.

One of the techniques that I've personally chosen to use is I allow the team member to set their deadline, and whatever date that they set, they haven't. Of course, if they watch the show, they're going to know my secret. Now, but whatever date that they say, I always say, okay, I add three days to it. Okay. Which makes me feel like I'm giving mercy and grace, like, ahead of time.

But what it also does is it holds them to a higher standard when they do come back to kind of like make that, kind of that adjustment, so to speak. Now, since I've been doing things that way consistently over time, most of the time they're coming and beating their own deadlines for the most part, you know, not by, like, weeks, but, you know, a couple days. Which to them is a sense of significance, importance, and value. Right. I got it done. You know, and I feel like when we don't set deadlines, a lot of times we take the emotional confidence that comes with getting it done away from someone because we let them roll on and roll on, roll on. You know, how does this all translate to the old, what a term that I've only heard you use, which is the ultimate expression of consequence.

Right. Combat. Combat is the ultimate expression of consequence. If you don't do things properly in combat, you suffer one of three consequences. Mission failure, injury, or death, you know. You know, I've seen combat in many different forms. Right. You know, a traditional form out on the battlefield in Afghanistan.

You know, but as an FBI special agent, I considered just about everything else. I was on the New York SWAT team as well. That's. That's obvious. Combat. But when you, when you're going out on the streets and you are doing surveillance, right. When you are going and interviewing bad guys, when you are going and working with foreign, you know, foreign leaders, you know, whatever it is, these are things that if you don't do them correctly in one way, shape or form, you're gonna. You're gonna put lives in danger. Yeah. So you need to do. Needs to be done properly. Now, not everybody took that view and it showed a lot of times. But, so, but those, those elements of those various forms of combat that I'm talking about, the way you do things, they're not specific to combat. Right. That's. That's kind of the behaviors that we talked about. Right. When you say, I understand my emotions and what we do based on those emotions. If you understood that. I heard you tell a story on one of your shows, one of the podcasts where you yelled at a client. Yeah. It took a little while for you all to get over that because you just had an emotion and you went right to it. Okay. If we always recognize that emotion before we acted, would that make us better?

It's gonna make us better because we get to choose our behavior.

That's right. It's gonna make us better. Everything.

Yeah.

Okay. So, you know, when we in combat don't act emotionally, Right. When we know that this person I'm talking to probably killed people, whether it's, you're just a straight civilian murderer, whether you are a terrorist leader who, whatever it is, and you're not getting. You're not making the headway that you need to make to get your answers, and all of a sudden you feel that frustration building up in you. What are you gonna do?

Yeah.

Act on it and hope that those actions work out or you're going to recognize, I'm getting super angry right now. That's not going to get me where I need to do. Maybe I need to take a breath. Maybe I need to walk away for a second. Maybe I need to change directions in this conversation. Maybe I need to call in my partner and say, hey, take over for me here. Okay.

Yeah.

Think about that. What does that have to do with combat? That has to do with life.

Oh, absolutely.

If we don't do that part Correctly. People may die if we don't plan, if we don't do everything with intention and a methodical plan before we start acting.

Yeah.

Okay, let's look at this Right before I, when I leave this room, I'm going to go downstairs. I've got my three kids, 7 year old, 6 year old, 18 month. My wife's been with them all day doing the school.

Yeah.

If I don't have some intention and a plan when I go down there. Okay. I'm just hoping things work out.

Yeah.

So I know what I'm bringing. I'm going to come down and I'm going to try to transition from businessman to father and husband. That's not easy to do, but that's an intentional decision that requires me putting the emotions of today aside and now setting a new day, you know, for my family. That's hard to do, but that has nothing to do with fatherhood or, or nothing to do with the Navy Seal or nothing to do with the leadership consultant. That's just a behavior that makes us better. And if I don't do that, I'm going to risk having things go sideways down there. I'm going to risk getting into an argument with my wife or doing something stupid, making her upset or upsetting one of the kids. And now I've got to, now I've got to recover all that and figure out how to fix that.

Yeah.

It's the behaviors, but that's why we use combat examples. A, they're fun to listen to people enjoy them. But you'll never hear me tell a combat story. That has a lot to do with how I dialed in my sights properly. It was all about the decision making process. I made up to that and it's how I behave that made us better warriors.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, behaviors always happen in the mind before they happen with the hand all day long, whether you know it or not.

Yeah.

For sure.

That's the key to be aware. Right. So that's that example you gave when you barked at the, the customer. Right. It was in your mind. You just chose not to recognize it.

Cost myself a million dollar contract like that.

Yeah.

Had I not paused, gained composure, chosen to go through the awareness thing, made a different kind of decision. Right. I would have reacted out of anger and completely throw a grenade in something that would, that was good. What's actually feeding many of my team members. Right.

Yeah.

On the other hand, following the process, process that you've been sharing, it allowed me to respond, but I responded from a healthy place and not from a negative place, therefore I got a better outcome, right?

A place of understanding and consciousness. What I try to tell folks is it's not about making the right decision, it's about making the conscious decision. Because you can't guarantee the right decision. And if you have a decision making process in place, okay, which begins with understanding your emotions and then onward it goes, you say consciously, hey, you know what, I'm going to bark at this client right now. Okay. As long as it's a conscious decision. See how that works for you. Maybe it works. You're probably going to find that it doesn't. And now you can go back and go, okay, when I chose at that point to act on this, maybe next time I'm not going to trust that instinct so much. So we talk about instincts, right? I hear people tell me all the time, I'll say, walk me through your thought process. And they'll say, well, Errol, I just instinctually do it. I've done it all the time. I said, that's fine. But as a leader, we are required to understand where and why things went right or wrong. And if you can't walk me through your thought process, how do you go back and identify where things went right and where things went wrong? And more importantly, as leaders, we set the tone and we train our people. Yeah, you can't train them to understand your instincts. So what are you telling your people to do?

Yeah.

Now of course the answer you get is.

You know, there's no answer to that. So again, that awareness, it's about making a conscious decision. The right decisions will come.

It's funny, when you were explaining the, the ultimate expression of consequence as it relates to combat, I went ahead and jotted down three, how it translates three times into the business sector. Alright, so level one, this is. Now, I could be way off here. You could tell me if I'm way off. Level number one is loss of a customer. Level number two is loss of your position. And level number three is a business failure. Yep. Right. You've made enough repeated bad decisions or taken bad behaviors. I'll give you an example of one that I think that a lot of people are facing right now. Okay. And this is something that I've, I've been sharing a little bit about. Now, many of my companies have been able to grow during COVID because we began preparing for Covid before COVID was ever a thing. Right. I always say that people are, you know, especially when they're, they brag about a bull market, a bull market, everything is Great. Everybody's making money. There's stuff everywhere. Well, we both know that. Life, business, careers, all gums and cycles, right? And while it's good to take advantage of a bull market, what you should be doing is taking advantage, knowing that there's going to be a bear market. You know, that is it. That is a behavioral pattern that I learned during the downturn of 2008 when I. When it almost cost me my company. Right. And unfortunately, we have people even right now that were ill prepared to deal with the fact that something outside of their control was going to affect how they operated with their business, how they operated with their teams. And it's forced them to take a hard look in the mirror. So at the end of the day, I think what's going to happen is it's going to cause them to shift in such a way that allows them to become better leaders, which is why they actually need 193.

That's. Thank you very much, Stephen. Yes, but look, you're exactly right. And this is how it breaks down. This is what I. When this whole thing started, I got questions from a lot of my senior leaders that I work with. Okay, what should I do? And I said, you shouldn't necessarily be doing many things differently.

You wait.

Okay, well, because when we talk about culture, right? And we talk about what culture is made up of the things you do, not the labels you put on it. So you can say, we have a culture of excellence. We. We have a culture of trust. We have a culture of innovation. I'm not telling anybody not to put those labels on. But my next question to you is going to be, what are the things that you do that create excellence? What are the things you do that create trust? If you can't rattle off two or three very specific things, and guess what, brother, you don't have it. You just have a label, okay? So that culture, those behaviors that you have in place, it will sustain you during the bad times and propel you during the good times. And that's exactly what you just talked about. So as we talk about.

You know, my process, my every challenge inside of my leadership process, the answer will be found there. Beginning with emotions, awareness of emotions and culture, how we feel, what we do. Then by identifying behavioral guidelines, here are the three things. The ways we behave and having. Then having a planning process. If you account for those things at all the time, you will solve any problem. You may have to. When things get really hairy and you may have to pivot quicker, but you still need to make plans.

Yeah. Sure.

Right. You may have to make more plans than you thought, and that plan may not work. And now you may need to make a new one. But we can all agree you plan. You don't just do stuff. Right. You may need to have to acknowledge new behaviors that you haven't seen before based on emotions. Okay, that's fine. But let's all agree that you still need to be aware of them, address them, and identify what you expect from people. You may have identified a couple of new ones, but let's all agree we need to identify those emotions that are driving behaviors we don't want and then establish the behaviors we do. So the companies like yours, who are in Covid. Okay, and had strong culture, knew what they did, knew the behaviors that they required, and. And continued to plan, but continued to be flexible. They were okay.

Yeah.

They hurt. You know, look, there's a couple of companies.

It's not like we grew by leaps and bound. We've been very blessed and fortunate to grow. But you're right. I mean, it comes down to how much were you prepared. And preparation starts before the event, not after.

Yeah. You know, so look, and. Well, that's another great point, Stephen, because that was the other thing. There's. There's a couple of companies that I had just started working with, okay. And.

They were already struggling, and they said, errol, I don't have time. I agree that this planning stuff is very important. I just don't have time for it.

Yeah.

I said, okay, let me just ask you a quick question before you fire me, because you choose not to make plans. If you had made a plan on what you're getting crushed with right now two months ago, would you be in the situation you're in now? Well, no, of course not.

Yeah.

My response is, then what are we talking about? Yeah, but it's too late. And I said, it's not too late. There's always a point to start making a plan. You have a situation. The situation is we tried to do this thing, we were going about it randomly, and now we're in a hole. That's your situation. What's your mission? Define specifically what you want to accomplish. Okay, we need to stop the bleeding. Good. Because you have to stop the bleeding before you start moving forward. That's your. Let's make the plan to stop the bleeding.

That's how they call them, battlefield medics.

That's right. So there's always a plan. There's always. No matter how bad things are, there's a place right now to make a Plan based on what is happening around you. And look, I'll tell you, a couple companies just said, yeah, that makes sense. But essentially what they're saying is we're just going to keep scrambling. I said, good luck.

We know how that turned out for him. The companies who hung in there said, okay, we're going to stay with this. It seems like it's painful. And I said, it's painful because you haven't done it before.

It's going to be like building a muscle. It's like dating somebody for the first time. It's, it's the same hero's journey over and over again. You're, you're at this level. You got to face this fear, conquer this thing to become this thing. Yep.

Right.

Over and over and over again. If it's alright with a little bit of time we've got left, actually, I got two, I got maybe three concepts I want to discuss with you just because I think you can share a lot of insight.

But one of the things that I want to do first is your brand new book just released not long ago, the Process and the Art of Science of Leadership.

Process leadership. Yep. Yeah.

So are you, do you, do you break your entire process down in detail? Because obviously it's summary level, which is great, but I'm of the opinion that there's always hidden gems and pieces of content that you can't share in 45 minutes on a podcast.

Yes, I break it down.

We're talking broad leadership stuff. Anything that your listeners liked that I said, they will find it in one of the elements of the process broken down. Obviously I sprinkle in, you know, stories of my background, but that includes with the SEAL teams, it includes with the FBI, closing the private sector when I sold copiers. And it includes, you know, so it includes. And family life. So it includes it. All right. But yeah, we break it down piece by piece.

That's one of the things I love. I personally have ordered the book. I'm still waiting.

It's coming. Steve, I could have gotten you a copy before we got on this thing.

You know, I just, I wanted to show you some love before you got here. I'm excited to read it because I, you know, you and I share so much in common of how we view leadership, how we view training and leading other people. You know, I just have another brother from another mother kind of mentality. I guess between us on that, we actually have a lot of warriors, right. Military service warriors that have now transitioned to civilian life. There's two things that I'VE been working with them on that. If you're okay with talking about. I'd like to maybe try. The first one is. Is transitioning just in general, from a military to a civilian life and the differences. And the second is. And maybe. Maybe this is where we can break into the WIM HOF method just a little bit. Is.

Overcoming some moral injury. Because a lot of the guys that I've worked with, they're coming to terms, Right. With. With the fact there have been some moral injuries. It's not things that they like to talk about. Guys and gals, they don't like to talk about it, which is understandable. And one of the things I've shared with them as a person of faith is that you do realize David in the Bible was a warrior, right?

Of course.

You know, and he was still considered a man. A man for somebody's own heart. Right. So how did. How do you look at those two? And of course, you know, hit each one of them individually because they're both powerful. And I think that. I think you can speak to both of them.

Yeah. The transition one is important and there's a lot to it. And here's what I would generally say. Okay. When we talked about earlier in the show here, transitioning from. As I leave my office to go to be a dad and a husband, that is a conscious decision. I cannot be the exact same. I can't bring the stressors that I had during my workday to home. Now, I'm still going to have the same behaviors, but I am still going to be the same person who behaves in certain ways. Right. Listens and tries to give love and try, you know, all those things. Okay. But I need to leave one part behind.

Yeah.

To go affect another one. And I need to do that with very strong intention and understand they are two separate and distinct missions, if you will.

Yeah.

That's what I would tell our transitioning folks. Be proud of your service.

Yeah, absolutely.

Talk about your service, you know, whatever. Relive it, but be proud of it.

Yeah.

You're transitioning. That means it's over.

Yeah.

There is a new stage in your life. Okay. You will get. You will not get the same satisfaction no matter what you do. Okay. That you did in what you did in the military.

Sure.

It doesn't mean it's gonna be less of a satisfaction or more of a satisfaction. It's just going to be different. And the transitioning vets need to understand that. So what. What do we do? Right. You may not like the job. You Take first. As a matter of fact, you probably won't.

Yeah.

And it's, it's not because there's no good jobs out there, but it's because you are struggling to separate and understand.

Well, the structure is completely different.

That's right.

There is not an organized. And many times in the corporate sector, in the civilian sector, one of the things that I've shared with them is this. You know, you're used to commands being giving and people following commands with follow up and accountability, responsibility. As you transition to civilian life, one of the things you realize is you have to inspire people to follow commands don't work if you want them to actually perform. You know, and the other thing that I've ran into specifically is especially our warrior vets, you know, folks that have actually, you know, face combat and related activities, is you can't let the ignorance of someone's knowledge about what you were doing, why you were doing it and stuff like that affect the fact that you were a valuable asset to this United States economy. Right. Yeah. So those are some of the tidbits that I would kind of share as well, I think.

Yeah. Look, and it's just very important to, for our transitioning veterans to humble ourselves as we move into a new arena. Okay. That doesn't mean that you don't bring with you those very valuable tools that you get, especially if you've been part of a combat unit. Those are life lessons that are applicable everywhere. You just have to understand we have to bow our head in humility to the new arena we're in. Okay. People don't do it the same way in the private sector. It doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means they do it differently. Bring the best you have as an individual to what you're doing and, and allow yourself to acclimate. Okay. So. And you could put that to a military thing. The second this war on terror started, okay, we had to start acclimating and immediately, immediately to what are the, what are the cultural norms and differences of our quote, unquote enemy right. At that time, it's their Muslim extremists. Okay. But the Muslim community has some very, very specific behavioral norms that if you start violating knowingly or unknowingly, there's going to be a problem. So you need to, if you're going to do it right, and I found this a lot at the FBI, you need to subject yourself to that culture a little bit. Not in a bad way. Say, look, here's. If I'm looking to get something out of this, I'm going to respect the environment I'm in. I'm still going to do my job, I'm still going to plan, I'm still going to have the good behaviors. But that's the same spirit that our transitioning vets should bring to their new job. Just get.

Yeah, I mean, there's a difference, too. I mean, from my perspective in, you know, having your own anchors of life, the things, your pillars of life, and then just seeking to understand what makes someone else someone else. You know, from a perspective, from a faith perspective, from a relational perspective, I mean, the culture, how kids are raised in this environment, United States is very different than it would be overseas, any of the countries, in many ways.

You know, and the final thing on that before we move to the very important one you just brought up, though, is it's the spirit in which you're doing the mundane. Okay. There, you know, haven't. And look, if you're transitioned from the military, you're not going to tell me that you didn't have mundane stuff. It's the same thing. It's the spirit you bring to what you're doing that defines you as a human being, not the actual task.

Okay.

The spirit in which you do that task. So as a transitioning vet, what's the spirit you're bringing to what you're doing? Because if you bring that spirit, you have to do it anyway. Just like you have to wake up, brush your teeth, get your kids out the door. What's the spirit which. You're doing it because it matters. Yeah. As far as the other thing goes.

Well, ask me another question, because there's a million different directions we can go, but the challenge that they're bringing to.

Well, there's. Obviously, I work with a lot of combat veterans to the uso, so we do a lot of reset programs, warrior reset programs, and some, you know, some of the. Some of the reset programs that we do are specialized to Special Ops, meaning when we do those events, there's no cameras, there's no nothing. There's special operations guys and gals, you know, that are in that room, that are in. Many of them have faced combat and have also had to face what is known as moral injury, which is mean they've been forced to take a life in a stressful situation. No matter what that. What that is, whether by command or whether by event, it doesn't matter. They're still carrying that. And I know one of the secrets to your success overall has been the WIM HOF method. Right. It's something that you've been talking a lot about that's added a lot of value. You know, I'm a big fan of mindfulness and meditation and prayer, things of that nature. But the Wim Hof Method method takes it to a different level. And I'm curious to know if you believe that the Wim Hof method could aid.

A vet, essentially a warrior, if you will, who might be struggling with a lot of moral injury, just trying to, you know, trying to recon their.

Life with that, the answer is unequivocally yes. And I have been trying to kind of break into that arena a little bit because. And I know there's a lot of great. And it sounds like you're doing the same thing, which I wasn't aware of. So I appreciate that because it's important. But look, here's what those moral injuries are, as you put it. I love that term, ptsd, right? A form of moral injury. It is reliving a bad experience over and over again. That's all it is. Okay, and what does that mean? So when I talk about my book, the Process, Art and science, here's the science behind it follows my process follows the science behind behavioral change. Okay? And the first place comes in your brain with an awareness of emotions that drive your actions. When you have a thought, okay, your brain literally sends a chemical to your body. Now it's, you know, back in the woo hippie propaganda days we called the mind body connection. It is no longer that. It is a scientific fact. I have an emotion of anger. Now my body sends a chemical down. My brain sends a chemical. Now I feel what that is from the brain.

Yeah, Physical response.

Yeah, that's right. We have between 60 and 70,000 thoughts per day. The research tells us 80 to 90% of those thoughts are the same as the day before. So facto they're going to be the same as the ones yesterday or tomorrow.

70% of the time for the majority of people, those thoughts are related to the emotions of stress. Okay? So now think about what's happening to these people. They are reliving that moral injury over and over again. Now they are literally becoming chemically addicted to that emotion and the behavior that it drives. And they do it again and again and again. Okay? Now from a science, from a physiological standpoint, now we're living under the emotions of stress. We are building up what we now know is inflammation.

Yeah.

Okay. The stress response causes inflammation in the body. And we now know inflammation is the key driver to every health problem that we have. In this country, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's, you name it. But most importantly in this conversation, depression and suicide.

Yeah.

All right, so that's my preamble. The WIM HOF method, okay? It's a very unique breathing technique and it's about cold exposure. In short, it has been scientifically shown prove. It has been shown scientifically to reset your nervous system, literally influencing your autonomic nervous system, flushing your body of the inflammation that is caused by stress. You are allowing yourself not to become dominated by that stress. Now, that's just one part, because here's the thing. If you are a special operations guy, like when I was in war, I was actually an FBI agent. But because of my background, I was attached to the 75th Ranger Regiment. Right? That's one of the special operations. So we saw a ton of combat, right? And we just saw awful things. Okay, but what, what you're gonna. What's gonna happen is.

I get so excited, I lose my train of thought. They will have seen that combat. They will be. Have been reliving that thing over and over again. But the problem is they'll still get sick because they're special operations guy or get well guy or gal. You're probably exercising, you're probably eating right, you're probably trying to meditate this. But the problem is you can't out exercise the stress and you can't out eat the stress, okay? And that's why otherwise healthy people get these diseases, right? That's why otherwise healthy people end up committing suicide. Because it's the inflammation and the stress response that they're not controlling. And that's what the WIM HOF method does. It helps you reset your nervous system and then all sorts of other ways to kind of reset your mind and rewire your brain.

Yeah. I mean, our mutual friend Bo, for example, he.

I have another brother from another mother that he introduced me to a guy by the name of Dean Hall. Now, Dean hall has got world records in swimming and things of that nature, but he did most of that swimming while he was battling cancer in cold exposure water day in and day out. His cancer didn't just go into remission. It disappeared through cold water immersion.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, again, why does that happen? Very quick. I can give it to you in 30 seconds. When you enter the cold water, you voluntarily activate your sympathetic nervous system. Right? Your fight or flight. That's a stress response. It's good, right? It means that we are right? We run away from the bear. Fight or flight. We have to now when you properly, when you, when you properly gain control of your facilities, your mind and your breath in the cold water, you stop the shiver response, which, a shiver response is good, that's meant to keep you warm. But if you stop that through your mind and your breath, then your body goes into, you start, starts warming itself from a metabolic state. But then what's happening is you start to move forward from sympathetic fight or flight, parasympathetic rest and digest. So the cold water, it was probably more the cold water and how he was relaxed in the cold water that reset his nervous system than it was actually the exercise. The exercise serves to do that, doesn't serve to reset that autonomic nervous system.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I think one of the things that we're both trying to tell the warriors is you can rewire. One of the things I've always struggled with is the term post traumatic stress disorder. I've always didn't. I've never liked the word disorder. And the primary reason I saw a young man, I was doing a reset program speaking at a live event for the Warrior reset program. And a young man who had faced combat, transitioning out of the military came up at the very end of that. And the speaker before me began talking about the scientific approach to post traumatic stress disorder. And you should have seen the. As soon as he heard the word disorder, his entire countenance changed. He's like, there's. And it went from I'm struggling to.

I have no hope, I have a problem. There's I'm dead. Yeah, yeah. This is disorder.

It's permanent. It's never going away. Contrastly, in some of the things that you've shared and some of the things we both experienced while it. You will have different memories that you may have to face from time to time. There is a way to rewire the brain right through the process of neuroplasticity. Right. Choosing which highway you want your thoughts to be on. You know, and that's one of the things I've appreciated about your work, specifically as it relates to the WIM HOF method and getting to that breathing technique and getting to the cold water immersion and getting to the place of that rest and replenishment side. Because I find that when we are able to rest and replenish, we get into that healing zone.

Just in general.

That'S the only time we get into it. And when we are constantly in that fight or flight state because you are just thinking about an event, your event happens to be combat that's it? Yeah, that's just your event. Some others, some other people go through the exact same thing because they were molested as a child or they had a heart, you know, they had gotten a terrible car accident. It's the same thing. Okay. And can I just share one quick story to tell you that this works? Okay. So I am outside the mill. You know, I'm doing my business Leader, you know, Leader 193. This is back in 2016 or so. And I just started and I was off to a meeting and I ducked into a coffee shop and I picked up a book, Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. Yeah, great book, right? And it starts then with the story of Johnny Bravo, the pilot, and describing Johnny Bravo in the air and his exploits covering this, what appears to be a special operations force. And as he describes it, he's describing Afghanistan. Right. And he's describing an area that you would only go if you're a special operations unit. Because, you know, and I'm recognizing and I'm really enjoying. I'm like, I know where he's talking about, and he's talking about firefights and the whole thing. And I could relate to everything he was saying, the artistry of what he was doing. And then the next thing I know, the pages are soaked, I'm sweating all over them and I'm shaking. Okay. Yeah. So I'm sitting in a coffee shop at 8 o', clock, 9 o' clock in the morning where the morning rush is coming in.

Yeah.

And that. And I realized, oh, my God, I'm having a panic attack. Now, I've been practicing the WIM HOF method at this point. And then when I realized I'm having a panic attack, I kind of double dipped and I was like, oh, my God, I'm having a panic attack. Like, ah, you know, what do you do? So what did I do? Okay, the first thing I did was I recognized what was happening. I had an emotional awareness and I said, I've been here before. Where have I been here before? Every time I step into an ice bath, that is what happens. It is an induced panic attack. I said, okay, what do I do when I get into the ice bath to calm myself? I focus on one thing, my breath. I don't focus on the noise around me. Okay. I don't focus on, oh, my God, these people are going to see me. Oh my God, I'm going to look silly. Oh my God, what's going to happen to me? No, no, I focus on my breath, right? Just like when you're in the cold, people who don't do well in the cold focus on, when can I get out? This is so cold.

Right.

They focus on the noise. I took and I said, alright, when I'm in the cold, when I'm in the ice bath, I take a deep breath in and I exhale. And I know scientifically, that activates the vagus nerve, which serves to calm me down. And on it went. Two breaths. I was calm. I went home to my wife afterwards. The day was over. I told her what happened. She said, do you need to go see somebody? Okay. And I will always go see somebody. I have no problem with that. I'll talk your ear off, as you can tell. Okay. About what I feel might be wrong. And I said, I don't. I said to my wife, I said, I don't have a problem. She said, do you think you have ptsd? Now, it had been a good eight years since I had seen combat. Right. This was the first time something like this had happened. And I said, look, maybe I do, but here's what I know. If I go see somebody, they're just gonna try to figure out how to stop me from having panic attack. And it looks like I already know how to do that.

Yeah.

My wife doesn't agree with me very often, rightfully so. She shouldn't, because I'm usually wrong. But even she was like, huh, I think you might be right. And then I said, and worse than that, they're gonna try to give me a pill to do something that I was able to do with my mind and my breath literally hack into my system. So that's the story I share that I would share with any of. Any of the folks you work with who listen. Right? That's it. Okay. There is a recognition of an emotion. Okay. And then there is a process you can go to. To reset yourself. And then like you said, neuroplasticity. We begin to rewire ourselves. There's a lot more, but you can do it. Okay. And it's there. And the WIM HOF method is a great beginning tool.

Absolutely. Well, dude, I have enjoyed our time and we got it. We definitely have to do this again.

I hope so.

It's going to easily be a six hour podcast.

But I had a blast for sure.

I appreciate, Steve, you're doing great work. I really appreciate what you're doing and thank you for taking the time to let me get my message out. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. Before we hang up the proverbial phone, tell everybody how they can kind of learn more about you and get to know you a little better.

Yeah, anything Leader193, my website, Leader193.com, my Instagram Leader193, Facebook Leader 193. Anything, Leader 193. If you're interested in the book, you can go to Amazon or you can go to my website and that'll. And that'll give you a link. If you're interested in, you know, my coaching, we're going to do a seminar, an open seminar. Our first one soon. You know, open it up to everybody as opposed to just doing it for a corporate client. So all the information on my leadership practice, how I incorporate WIM, HOF, Method, anything Leader 193 you could find.

Fantastic. Well, I loved it, man. Thank you again for taking the time to hang out with me for a little bit.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

All right, brother. Well, everybody, you have to go check out his book, the Process, Art and Science of Leadership. You've got to check out this book. You can buy it on Amazon just like I did. I'm still waiting on my copy, Shameless Plug, but it's coming. Right? But you guys have to check it out. You got to go learn more about Leader 193 and everything that Errol's doing. You got to check it out. With that being said, I'll see you again. On the next Stockton Unstoppable. Take care. Let's face it, you can never go wrong with a Navy seal. And Errol Doble just really hooked us up. Now, if you want to keep your journey moving forward and keep making progress, check out this next interview. Start to make choices from the woman or the man in the vision.

Right.

Being able to understand fear and welcome it in and know I love it. And here it is like.