God Completely Changed My Life

The coaches I had prior were the very, very best at man's ways. I mean, they took skill, tactics, scripts, scaling. Now my coaches are all kingdom based. So we go to the throne and get answers that don't make sense, but work supernaturally. And so my identity now is I'm a bold, loving, authentic man of God. And I do things. I may have things, I may go places. The stock market doesn't dictate my worth. My net worth doesn't dictate my worth. Nothing dictates my worth because I know whose I am.

Yeah.

And I am a son of God.

Guys, I welcome my good friend Ray Higdon. Man, what's going on, brother?

What's up?

Hey, dude, I'm super excited. You know, it's a faith driven network marketer new book. You know, you have been a master in the network marketing field for a long time and, and you know, it's.

Funny as you know, being acquainted with.

You for now for a couple years and, and, and have a couple, you know, friendship calls and all kinds of stuff. Yeah, it's been really, really cool to watch your own faith journey shake up and, and shape. Well, shape up, I should say. And now you're merging the two and I, and I actually believe there's a huge market, if you will, of faith driven people in business in general that actually don't know how to operate or create businesses based on faith principles or, or kind of like, kind of, kind of awaken to that. I'm curious to know.

I know, I know that there's been.

A lot of, a lot of change, you know, so give us a little backstory for those who may not have know the story of how you came to faith recently and all that good stuff.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And thanks. Thanks for having me. So, I mean, it really starts.

You know, at the end of 2019. You know, we had just crushed it in business. You know, I was, before I was ever a coach or trainer, I was the number one income earner of a network marketing company. And now the majority of my clients are network marketing, either companies or leaders or network marketers. We have a monthly, you know, membership of over 9,000 members, pay $27 a month. And, and we, we run an annual event called Now Now. It's called Faith Over Fear. Right. And last year we had John Maxwell's, the keynote had about a thousand people there. This year we'll have, we believe around 3,000. That's amazing. And so at the end of, at the end of 2019 had hit a lot of goals, a lot of the goals that I'd set, you know, shared the stage with Tony Robbins multiple times, Brendan Burchard, Richard Branson, just, just mo. Most of the guys, right. And had spoken in front of crowds of 27,000, had generated over $30 million. Inc. 5000 company, best selling author. All those things, yeah, all of those things that I thought would make me more worthy and more and more then, you know, then I, I, I remember thinking this And I think 2,000, maybe 11 or 12. I thought, you know, man, if I just hit, if I have a million dollar year, man, that would prove me, that would prove that I. And so I, you know, had my first million dollar year in 2013, first million dollar month, 2014, first million dollar day, 2015. And none of those, all those things were awesome, don't get me wrong. But none of them did anything that I thought would, I thought something in me would be like, yes, I now am unstoppable or whatever. And so at the end of 2019, I realize, and I don't think, I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs that have yet to realize this. Yeah, I just realized that I was on a treadmill trying to gain something that can't be gained by that treadmill. And you know, there's, there's nothing, you know, worse than, you know, climbing a ladder, realizing it's against the wrong wall, you know, and so, and that's what I was doing. And I'm like, well, all I'm doing is more of this. More money, more acquisition, more impact, more influence, more stages, more, more work, work, work, work, work. And, and so far none of that, after all these years of, of fruitful results has given me what I actually am looking for. And I don't know what I'm looking for.

Yeah.

And, and so I started looking and I started looking in a very different way. You know, I went from just focused on skill set and mindset and, and scaling to what am I missing, man? And so tried a lot of different therapy. I did two years of Dr. Joe Dispenza meditation, one to three hours a day, every day. I'm very disciplined. So I'd get up, you know, when your melatonin is, is really good at like 3:00am, do a 90 minute meditation. I did that every day for two years. Yeah. And all of those things were helpful. I won't say that they weren't. I think a lot of Christians bash things they don't understand, but they, it was helpful. But yeah, none of them were it. None of them was what I was actually looking for. And so in 2022, and I think it was October, I believe my wife, a month earlier, had spoken in Nashville. And she came home, she get. She said, hey, I met someone you should meet. I'm like, okay. And so we get on this zoom. I get on this zoom call with this guy that I've never met, don't know, doesn't know me, he lives in Miami. And we get on this zoom call, and the first words out of his mouth are, I see a big vision for you and God. I'm like, oh, okay, great. I didn't grow up in the church. I didn't know one verse. I didn't understand the gospel. I don't. You know, I don't even. It's hard for me to describe what was my beliefs back then. I mean, I believed that there was some kind of higher power. Is it source? Is it energy? Like, I. I don't know. You know, I don't. I don't know what my real beliefs were back then. And so we talked for like an hour. And none of it makes any sense, but it feels true.

Yeah.

And the next day, we're in Naples, where we live, Naples, Florida. And we go to a networking meeting. And I go upstairs and I see this guy. And I've met him before, briefly, but I really didn't know him. And he sees me, and as soon as he locks eyes with me, he says, I see a big vision for you and God. I'm like, okay, that's weird, because these guys don't know each other. Like, they didn't coordinate. Yeah, we need to pray. And so he starts, you know, praying over me, and I start weeping. I'm like, what is happening here? It's crazy. And, you know, he. He's a. A 6 foot 4. I. I since know he's a 6 foot 4 former corrections officer. He's a pastor. And we were standing up in a networking meeting. There were 200 people around us, all seated. Yeah. We were standing up in the middle. He's praying for. I'm shaking, and it feels like 10 minutes.

Yeah.

And, you know, at some point, logic kicks in and I'm like, this is kind of embarrassing, you know? And so we come out of it, no one saw anything, which is supernaturally impossible because I could have swung my arms and hit five people in the face. Like, no one was like, cut that guy off or they get okay, you know? And so I still wrestled with the eye. So I. Now I know something is happening. Like, what is there's something to this. And I let a few weeks go by because I just kept wrestling with it of, well, what would it look like if I was Christian all of a sudden? Like, how would my audience react? You know, And I just had this, you know, decision kind of anxiety, which. That's where most people live, by the way, they live in pre decision anxiety. And, and so, you know, I broke down. I invited the original guy over to the house. He brought a guy from the church. My wife and I give her life to Christ. And that was November of 2022. And the next day I woke up and I was different. Like, I. I did two years of one to three hours a day of meditation. Like, I knew my body, and I woke up, and as soon as my feet hit the floor, I'm like, what is happening? I look at my hands, they feel different. My eyes are different. I'm looking at the sunrise, and I have this just overwhelming urge to, to pray. And I don't know how to pray. I don't know anything. And so I, I just get on my knees, I'm like, God, tell me what to do. I'll be obedient. And I got go live. I'm like, oh, man, that's not what.

I was hoping for.

Yeah, please give me another, you know, choice. And, and so, you know, after him and Han, I eventually go live. And, you know, it's probably the video that you saw, and it went Viral, you know, 50,000 views the first day for a, For a long live. That's, that's, you know, pretty good. And since then, I've just developed this absolute love for, For Christ, for the Word of God. I've been in the Word of God every single day. I now struggle to finish any other book because I'm in. I'm in the Bible so much, and I love it. Not out of, you know, you better read your Bible, you know, but I, I love it. I love the revelations that I get. I. I just love the Word. I love understanding how the, the Father thinks and, and how he operates and his love for us. And, and so it's just been a wild ride, man. And for me, Christ was an exchange, not an addition. And so he's now in every aspect of my business. I have my, my corporate team huddles. I bring a verse in, I bring prayer in. When I'm working with clients, I'm. I'm praying for them. I'm, I'm, you know, asking, you know, questions to the Holy Spirit and, and, and our, our event after 10 years of running an annual event. We changed the name to Faith over Fear last year and, and yeah, I'm, I'm just so grateful that while I was still far off, the father ran to me and, and placed people in my life to help mentor me.

Dude. So first of all, I'm just excited for you. I was excited when, when you first shared the news.

Yeah.

You know, I've been walking. I had been walking with Christ for, you know, probably a decade at that point. I'd had a similar conversion experience at a litter box of all places where it wear it and buy a litter box in a mobile home that I couldn't afford it. My brother moved into to.

Wow.

This is right after, this is very shortly after I was coming off the, the homeless stint. I was couch surfing at my dad's house. My brother allowed me to have 50 bucks to clean his litter box. And then during that whole experience and we'll have to have like lunch or dinner and I'll tell you the whole thing. But yeah, let's just say when I got up off my, when I got up off the floor, I was changed. I was different. I remember looking at this little rectangle wall to the left hand side of the mobile home and just seeing a pine branch just like almost blowing in slow motion with the bluest sky ever, you know. And I started the company I actually just sold and exited two days later after that experience, which was part of the blessing that was promised during the experience. And I literally just exit that company last year.

Wow.

You know what I'm saying? So it's, it's been for anyone says that, you know, hey, you know, can God be real? Can Jesus be real? I'm like when you have experiences that are just utterly transformational that are without words, you know, things that just don't.

Make sense, they don't make sense.

I mean Mir and miracles don't make sense because they're not of the earth or of the kingdom and that kind of thing, which is kind of a powerful. My grandfather always used to say that the Bible is the only book on the planet that he's aware of that as you read it, it reads you right. You know, you can go right back to this. You can go back in the same verse ten days in a row and that verse something different each time.

Absolutely.

And that revelation hasn't, you know, one of the things that you and I share, we never, we've never had a chance to talk about it ever before.

You know, since you're opened up about it in the book, I figured it's okay to share publicly since we're gonna have all of our listeners and watchers go get the book, which is obviously the, The, The. The challenge and the difficulty was self worth. You're gonna find out for the first time that I also had some suicide attempts along the way. So I know what it's like to be in that despair and feel like I was utterly worthless.

Yeah.

You know, so. And, and as. As a result, I want to maybe start a little bit more the conversation around Worth because I feel like there's a distinct difference between selfworth or what we think selfworth is, and what divine worth is. So I'm curious to know if you could maybe from your perspective, given all that you've been through and changed and seen in your own life, the miracles, even your son having sleep, sleep, sleeping at night, you know, like, kind of help me understand from your perspective how you see Worth now. Yeah.

And it's interesting, you know, like, when you're. When you're on this path, I honestly, I feel like every.

10 days, I'm saying I just had the biggest breakthrough of my life. You know, like, as soon as that book came out, I already had like 10 more things that I could have put in it. And so I don't believe. At least I'm not sure if I. If I got this in the book. I'm trying to remember. But, you know, it was back in. Probably.

I think it was February or March, where, you know, just. And just to kind of sum up the last two years, some, you know, some aspects of my life have been amazing. Some have been the. The most challenging parts of my life.

Yeah.

Period. Yeah. And. And. And so I'm in. I'm in prayer one day and. And I'm just praying and you know, I'm just. I'm having some difficulties. I'm having some things that just aren't. Just aren't working. And I'm like, man, I feel like I'm being so obedient. You tell me to do something, I go do it. I mean, I saved my. I brought my mom to Christ, my dad to Christ, my ex. Wife to Christ. I'm discipling my ab. My stepmom who abused me as a kid. Like, what else you want me to do here? Right.

That in and of itself is a miracle that can't be explained outside of divine love.

Yes. And. And so I. In prayer, I got. I got this very clear message, and it was. I had to keep breaking you so you would find the need to love yourself. And I'm like, oh, man. You know, and so I'm trying to like, okay, well, you know, and this is my. My elementary, you know, reaction to that is, okay, so I started. Every morning I'd look in the mirror and say, I love you. I love you. And it wasn't until a week later that I really got it, that I really understood what he meant. And that is my identity. And I think the identity of most people, because your worth is always going to be tied to your identity. Always. And so my identity, I realized was, what have I done? What am I doing? What have I accomplished? But the problem with it is it never mattered. The answers never mattered. It was never enough. So I was never enough. I was a ruthless bully to myself. So at the end of every day, I would kind of go over my stat sheets and didn't matter if it was a million dollars that day. Didn't matter if it was, you know, stages or, you know, I saved them in life or someone didn't kill themselves because I talked to them. Right. Didn't. None of that mattered.

Yeah.

So all I looked for was, how can I beat myself up today? I ate a cupcake. I didn't. I didn't do that thing. I didn't do very well over there, you know? Yeah. And so that was my ball and chain. That was my. That's what kept my worth so low. Because every day for my entire life, that's. I mean, I don't know what year it started, but, you know, for at least 30 years. Yeah, that was my rap sheet. And. And so I broke that. And in prayer I'm like, help. Help me break this. Help me. What, you know, who. Who am I? You know, what should I be? And that's when, you know, and I've. And I've just been surrounded with amazing holy spirit filled mentors. And I, The. The. The coaches that I have now, you know, the coaches I had prior were the very, very best at man's ways. Yeah, they. I mean, they took skill, tactics, scripts, scaling that. Now my coaches are all kingdom based, so we. We go to the throne and get answers that don't make sense but work supernaturally. And so my identity now is I'm a bold, loving, authentic man of God.

Yeah.

And I may do things, I may have things, I may go places, but not those things dictate, you know, the stock market doesn't dictate my worth. The. My net worth doesn't dictate my worth. Nothing dictates my worth because I Know whose I am.

Yeah.

And so I, I am a son of God and I, I'm a child of the king. And, and so that is now my worth. If I was to question my worth now, it would be disrespectful to the cross. It would be religious, actually. Yeah. And, you know, because he paid full price for me and, and for me to think less of myself is, Would be just disrespectful.

Yeah, well, I mean, to your point, I mean, he, he literally gave up everything for you, for me, for our friends, for our family and anybody else that hasn't really discovered the way yet. So.

Right.

I think that's pretty powerful. You know, the one thing that was in my mind so a few year, probably two years ago, you know, I kind of look at meditation in many ways as a, As a. I think they call it in scripture, praying in the spirit. That's kind of. I've always looked at you're. You're going inside. I've always look at meditation as a component of prayer in that. And, and that my verbalization of prayer is, you know, sometimes Thanksgiving, it's asking could be a number of things, but meditating, historically, I'm trying to listen so that when I'm going into the spirit, I'm trying to take stuff to the throne. I'm trying to ask, you know, questions, you know, and trying to be obedient, authentic to that. And one of the things that came up to me is this. It's a bit of a mantra, but it reminds it. It's there to remind myself that I am abundantly loved. And ironically, it's very similar to kind of what you mentioned. My audience has heard it before, but it's. I'm healthy, I'm wealthy, I'm wise, I'm a steward of the most high. And then last year I added the last piece. I love you, Stephen.

Nice. You know, that's, that's fantastic. That's great.

Yeah. So I, I use that, you know, at least three times a day, first thing, waking up as part of getting kind of my. In my, my day situated, I'm always trying to balance question needs concerns through the lens of the Holy Spirit. And it's funny, the more I think it's almost like the more you lean into your faith, operated in Christ, the more wisdom and experiences and the, and the revelation, if you will come forward and you actually accelerate Many, many respects. I know one of the greatest challenges that I had in coming to Christ was the, was a pretty large falling away of people that had that wanted nothing to do with him, which I had tied my identity to my self worth to like, as long as these people think I'm awesome, then I have value. Right.

Right.

I'm curious to know how. I mean, obviously we both have new, you know, coaches and mentors and people that pour into us, we pour into others and all that kind of stuff. Did you have the massive following away? Because it is one of the commonalities I have seen historically with, with people going this, this, you know, miraculous transition.

You know, I don't, I mean.

I, I don't, I, I definitely got some pushback. No, no question. One of them that stands out is, you know, the, I mean, the day I, I came out about Christ, he messaged me on Instagram and he was like, dude, I followed you for years, I'm Jewish. And you just all of a sudden now you're all about Jesus. Like, this is.

Why, you know, like, I can't trust you. Like, you know, it was pretty damning. And, and I just loved on him, you know, I just did my best to love on him. Yeah. And it was about, I think about two months ago, he came to Christ and that's amazing. I actually brought him to Christ at an event I was speaking. And. And so I think for me it's been interesting because network marketing has a lot of, of Christianity and, and a lot of Christians are in, are in network marketing. And so I think the more, yes, I did have some falling away, I had some clients just totally disappear, disown me or me or whatever, talk behind my back. But I think the more, the bigger thing that I've seen is because I've been at this for so long, you know, I mean, I've been, you know, doing, you know, videos and network marketing for 15 years.

I actually had a lot more people say I had stopped following you, and now I'm back. I'm so grateful. I've prayed for you. In fact, when I did that video in November of 2022 called My Apology to God. Yeah. I had two over 200 private messages from people. And it's like they all collaborated. Yeah. And they said, I've been woken up in the middle of night to pray for you, but none of them had ever told me. And a rebellious nature that, that I had wouldn't have liked that anyway. Right. And I think, you know, one of the big things that I've realized that has that kept me from God and keeps a lot of people from God is father wounds. And so I realized that how someone feels about their biological father is projected on how they feel about their heavenly father. So I thought God was mean, uncaring, I'd never be good enough. He'd never be proud of me, because that's how I thought about my dad.

Yeah.

And, you know, so it's been a really special, you know, scenario of, you know, I don't know, it's been probably maybe a month or two now. I brought my dad to Christ. And. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say that I had a massive falling out. I definitely had some. But I've had more people come back to watching my stuff because I went very extreme. New age there, you know, there for a while, for about, you know, about probably two years. I was extreme, you know, meditation and. And everything. And I'm not anti meditation, you know, it's. It is. It is helpful. I think it all has to do not with what you do, but with where's your heart.

Yeah.

And that's what's most important. And people miss that part, I think. I don't eat meat this day or if I don't work that day or if I don't do this. And, you know, God's not, you know, it's God the Father, not the godfather. Right. He's not worried about what you do. It's, where's your heart? Like, do you love him? Do you love others? And. And I think that's something that can get lost.

Yeah. No, I think that's so good because to your point, there is a. There's a trend you go to. All you have to do is go look at the disciples. Right. The disciples came from all walks of life in all kinds of areas that were, quote, unquote, frowned upon or, you.

Know, not in ministry.

You know what I'm saying? They just. They weren't. They weren't the. The, you know, religious leaders of the day. And yet Jesus poured in into them to transform them from the inside out, which I've always just thought was immaculate.

Right.

Miraculous. You know, one of the things that you brought up in the book that I thought was, it's funny because I can. When I read it, I was like, oh, I can think about my own synchronicities, my own little. And you brought up the story about the water buffalo. I think you could share just super fast. But I remember having my own experiences where now looking back, I realized I was being wooed a little bit, you know. Yeah. So let's. Let's talk about the water buffalo for just a half a second.

Yeah. So it was 2000.

I don't know, 16 or 17 maybe.

Or wait, no, no, I'm sorry, 2006 or 7. That's what. Yeah, it was either 2006 or 2007. I'm still full time real estate. I'm up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, visiting a buddy on the car right over there in the backseat of the car. I think in my head I'm like, God, if you're real, I want to hear the word water buffalo. And it's like, why water buffalo? It's like, like I don't know that I've ever said those words, you know, and, and so we get there and I don't tell anyone. And so the pastor, for the first time in church history, they have a visiting pastor from India who tells the story of a stubborn water buffalo. And so I hear that. I'm like, oh, crap. Okay, that's, that's strange. And so I tell Brian and he's like, oh, hallelujah. Preach. He's telling, he's running around, he's telling people, you know, he's pointing, you know, like, and I'll do anything. I asked for a weird sign. I totally get it in spades.

Yeah.

And I don't do anything. I don't change anything. Doesn't nut doesn't budge me at all. And you know, so he's been, he's been chasing me for a while. You know, they say that Jesus will, you know, stand at your heart's door and, and, and knock. And he will do that forever until you let him in. And, and so, you know, I wasn't ready to let him in and I just had to, you know, go through a little bit more pain to, to turn. To turn.

Yeah, I do. I just want, It's a, it's a really cool like story. I mean, it's. Here's the cool thing. The book is full of insightful revelations as well as tactical action steps and more importantly, relational development between yourself and faith. And you know, one of the things that you brought up all in there was the, the importance of understanding. Like you, you had all these six pillars for this long time and network marketing, you always follow them. They, they had habit, they had, had a proven track record of success. I'm curious to know now, knowing what you know now in the last two years, 18 months, if you will, what has changed? I know you talk about it a little bit in the book, but what has changed in those six pillars and how through the lens of faith and a connection to Christ?

I mean, there's there's really, you know, what I've learned from just, you know, great, great mentors, you know, and, and, you know, you can be of faith and have mentors, right? You look at, you know, Moses, right? You know, at one point, his father in law comes along, Jethro, and says, hey, knucklehead, you're doing this wrong. And he teaches them how to be a better leader, right? And, and so we can, you know, we can all have, you know, God can send us earthly, you know, messengers to, you know, to help us, you know, to me, there's, there's really two major.

Pieces, okay? There's, you know, what we're all familiar with is. And that is the, you know, kind of, you know, man's way, right? Logic, right? You know, that's, that's where your skills are. Your, you know, strategy, your, you know, that's right. And there's masters of that, right? And masters, you know, all throughout that teach you how to be a better entrepreneur.

Investor or whatever. And so that there's this, which used to make up my entire world. And what I realized is that personal development, self development is one very hard 2. It all ends in a brick wall because at some point, if you do all the work, you're still going to be lacking. And I remember seeing this 60 Minutes interview. I think I talk about this in the, in the book. I do talk about it in the book, but I saw this 60 Minutes interview with a NFL player and, you know, he had just won his third Super Bowl. And the interviewer is like, man, you got to be feeling great.

Yeah.

He said, you know, most days I wonder, is this it? Yeah, he said. He goes, well, you know, what do you mean he goes well? I just feel something's missing. He's like, what do you think it is? He said, I wish I knew. That was Tom Brady.

Yeah.

And. And so there's the, the. The worldly aspect, the skills, the, the. The, you know, and there's, you know, just, you name every, every guru, you know, is work in that realm, and a lot of pastors work in that realm too, of just your discipline, etc. And then there's the kingdom. And so, you know, I heard I got. Got a chance to meet and spend. I had a great conversation with him. But I met David Green. He's the founder of Hobby Lobby, which as a kid, his goal was to be the manager of a dime store because that would make him the most successful guy in his family. Instead, he starts Hobby lobby and has 44,000 employees, 1055 stores, does 8 billion a year, and he gives 50% of profits to charity. So this year, they expect he's going to give $750 million to charity. Wow. And so I heard him say.

My life changed when I started. When I. When I started making every decision, minor and major, based in prayer. Yeah. And so when you're going into the kingdom, so the kingdom will. When you. When you're truly adhering and asking Holy Spirit for guidance, you know, Holy Spirit, please guide me on this. You know, I just believe. I believe the word of God. And James 1:5 says, when you lack wisdom, ask will be given to you liberally and without reproach. Right. And so I believe it. I believe the word of God. And so I started praying on every major and minor decision. Should I. Should I bring on this speaker? Should I work with this guy? Should I. Should I, you know, do this project? Should I, you know, go to this event? Should I? Like, I. I pray on every major and minor decision. And. And that's where you're going to get supernatural wisdom. Sometimes the answers make absolutely no sense. And until they do, and something you never would have seen coming. Yeah. Like, you know, I remember one day I. I wake up in the morning and I just got Shopify, right? And Shopify, I'm like, some. I got, okay, something's wrong with Shopify. Like, okay, all right. And so I. I tell my, you know, my coo, hey, look into Shopify. There's something. Maybe there's something going on there. I don't know. Like, she gets these calls now all the time. She's like, okay, it's like a crazy rabbit. And. And so, lo and behold, a few months prior, they had changed our settings, and we had $50,000 sitting there. Oh, wow. You know, and there was just 50 grand just sitting there. Like, it'd be nice to have that. You know, I've had it where, you know, he's just guided me to do things that just. Just didn't make sense. Really did. And. And I just have been obedient. I talk about it in the first chapter of the book. Something very uncomfortable that. That I did. And. And so I just have learned to. To trust, you know, to trust the answers that I get in prayer. And so if you're. If you're just using worldly logic, you're operating about 10%.

Yeah.

And, you know, when you. When you start really, you know, relying on God for answers and relying, like, show me a sign. I remember when we were in Costa Rica, I thought I Was supposed, I don't know if I put this in the book. I thought I was supposed to work with this guy. I thought there was something there. And so I, I prayed and I said, God, if I'm supposed, whoever I'm supposed to work with here, have him say the word turquoise.

Turquoise, right. I don't know.

And so, so I went and met with that guy the next day. And I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. Doesn't say it, huh? Okay. And so the next day, my son, who's now 4, at the time, he was 3. My son was coughing and it was a really weird cough. And my wife says it sounds like he's saying turquoise.

And I'm like, unbelievable. And so I'm supposed to work closer with my son. I was looking for someone outside the family. And so, you know, if you ask, he will guide you. And, and so, you know, that's, I, I just, you know, if you're facing a problem and you're, you're, you have, you're anxious about it, you know, Jesus said, who by worrying is adding an hour to their life. If you're worrying about it, if you're stressed about something, whether it's finances, relationship, hunting, you name it, yeah. That is exactly where you're lacking faith.

Yeah.

And that's where you need to say, you know, go. Go to Christ and say, you know, because you co labor with him and say, hey, what are we going to do about this? Yeah, how can we think differently about this? How can we think more? How can I think more brilliantly about this? And what are we going to do? And, and so when you get that, you will have thoughts you never would have had on your own. And, and that's when you're stepping into the kingdom and that's, that's when you're operating at a supernatural level. And, and I just, I just hope for more people to experience that.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy how our, our intentions change as you get closer and closer to Christ.

Oh, yeah.

I've always thought that that's pretty incredible, you know, So I was going to ask you about how faith and obedience are connected. And I want to come back there, but right now I'm actually feeling led to ask you to share. And this, this, you know, I didn't necessarily see this directly in the book or whatever. I, you know, I had the choice of spending some time with you and Jessica down in, in Naples at one time for, for lunch and stuff. It was awesome. And yeah, you know, and you guys always look like you, You've always done really well together and connected and done a lot of work together and, you know, just doing life together, like, just in general. Right. How has coming to faith for both of you guys elevated or transformed your marriage?

Man? I mean, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. You know, you, you may have. There's a analogy that some, I've seen some pastors use that, you know, if you, if, you know, if the, if the man and the woman, you know, doctor, as they draw closer to God, they draw closer to each other too. Right? And, and I'll give you, I'll give you two, I'll give you my two crazier stories, all right? And so I remember one day I hear I was listening to my buddy Pastor Baker out of Ohio, and he's one of our speakers for Faith Over Fear. And, and he said, you know, go to Lord and ask, what do you need to forgive yourself of? And so I'm like, okay. So I get into prayer, I ask this question, and I have a scene come up in my, in my head that I, I hadn't, I hadn't even thought about in years. And that is when my wife and I first started dating. This was right after I lost it all. I mean, I was a million dollars in debt, foreclosure, depressed, drinking heavily. And there was a, a time when we were dating before we were engaged, before we were married, where we were going to this, this conference and this, you know, friend, I guess, I mean, we were never that close or anything, but this girl that wanted to go couldn't afford a room, and both of us were like, oh, just stay with us. Right? Yeah, it's not a good idea. And so, you know, that night, you know, one of the nights there we were all, we were all drinking very heavily and bad things happened. And, you know, and, and, you know, she came on to me. My wife was passed out and the tequila ridden Ray was all about it. And, and so that's something that happened, you know, I don't know.

15 years ago. 14. Yeah, probably 15 years ago. And you know, again, before we were engaged, before we were married, and my. No one ever found out. You know, my wife never found out. Nobody ever found out.

Yeah.

And so as soon as I saw this scene, I'm like, yeah, God, please forgive me of this. Like, oh, man. Oh, yeah. And, and, and so the next morning, it kept coming up, wouldn't leave me alone. And, and I'm like, well, I mean, I asked for forgiveness I thought I was good to go. Tell your wife.

Oh, seriously?

Seriously. Like, oh, man. So I pray again, of course. Like, every time you get an answer you don't like, that's got to be the devil.

I think that was burritos that it could have been.

That was definitely me, that one. And. And so I pray, pray, pray, pray. And I'm like, oh, man. Okay. And so I go to her and, you know, I tell her, and she starts crying, and she leaves the house. I'm like, great. This is great. And she's out all day, all night, comes home late. And she said, I know this sounds weird, but I trust you more than ever now. And I really believe, really believe that had I not been obedient, that would have been uncovered, and. And she would have found out a different way. And I know her reaction would have been different. Yeah, so that's. That's tough scenario number one. Tough scenario number two is we.

We were facing a challenge. We had put money down on a. On a lot, and we thought this thing was so easy breezy, right? And. And it didn't. And it's a $1.7 million lot. And. And so here we are. It had been, you know, seller financed. We're coming up, Million Dollar balloon is due, and we have a discussion about this. And I prayed about it, and I got. Don't worry about it. Let it go. That's what I got. And she was so upset, and for the first time in our relationship, I just really honestly led her and I said, listen, babe, the Lord is blessing us in so many different ways. We were never supposed to have that, because when I prayed about getting that lot, I got not to. We got it anyway. And. And so I'm like, babe, we were never supposed to have this lot. I prayed about it. Gotta know we did it anyway. And. And I'm getting. He's gonna bless us, but we're to let it go. And I led her very powerfully without being so worried about letting her down. And as soon as she walked out of the. You know, she. You know, she was upset. She cried because, you know, she was worried about how will this look socially, how will. You know, I gotta go back to the guy and tell him, and, you know, this looks like a failure and everything. And. And when she left the room, I literally felt. I felt something. And so I just. I just. I got into prayer, and I'm like, okay, what's that all about? And I got. Very clearly.

I had to get you to trust me more than you were Worried about letting her down. And I realized how much because when we first started dating, she was paying my utility bills. So I have this real sensitivity around anything, you know, negative about money or letting her down. I just never wanted to let her down.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, as soon as I bounce back, I mean, we honeymooned in Fiji. We, you know, I've just. Yeah. Butter a horse and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And. And so I realized that I thought I had God as my number one priority. I actually had don't let her down as my number one priority. And. And since that. That's no longer the case, and what's, you know, powerful is when you lean on him, you're not going to let your wife down. And. But that can't be your focus.

Yeah.

And I've learned that that's, you know, there's a lot of guys in that. In that position, you know, that I've been.

Dude, it was really interesting. Is, you know, feeling led to ask you about the marriage piece and then hearing that beautiful testimony, if you will, both. Both occasions, ironically, they both come back to obedience.

Oh, yeah.

Like being obedient, not being like.

It's.

It's interesting because both. Both turned into. Be big blessings on scary situations.

Yes.

For one reason, another. And on an act of faith and obedience, they turned into something really nice.

Yes.

So. Which is a really cool lead into. One of the things that you say in the book is that obedience and faith are interconnected. They cannot be separated.

Yeah.

Take a few moments. You don't want to break that apart for me.

Yeah. You know, I mean, it's interesting because if you ask, if you ask any Christian, hey, do you have faith? They're like, absolutely, I believe there's a God. Because they don't know what faith is.

Yeah.

And know what faith is by James 2. Right. The book of James. You know, James talks about faith without works is dead. But people mistranslate that they think that works means good deeds. But the example he gives is Abraham going to sacrifice his son. Yeah. Good deed. That's obedience. And. And even if you look in the New Testament. Right. It's Acts. I think it's Acts. I want to say 238, but I could be off here. It talks about how the Lord gave commandments. Right. Not suggestions. And it was the Great Commission, not the great recommendation. Right. And. And so now the interesting thing, because of the work done on the cross, you can be disobedient and still be loved, but you just won't live the most Fulfilling life you could have.

Yeah.

And that's what I believe. So there's a. I think a lot of people tie, you know, works and everything with. With salvation. Salvation is easy. It really is. I mean, it wasn't easy for Jesus, but it's easy for us. And that is Romans 10, 9, 10. If you confess with your mouth, believe in your heart that Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior, you will be saved. Period.

Amen.

And even if you backslide, even if you start, you know, doing stupid stuff after, you're still. You're still saved. Once saved, you're saved. Right? But the difference is when you're obedient and when you. When you walk in faith, not by sight, but by faith, not by your logic, but by faith, then you will have a supernatural life. You will have miracles happen. You will have supernatural experiences. You'll have things that just don't make any sense at all. Yeah. I'll tell you. I'll. I'll tell you a. A crazy one. This one's wild. I don't. I don't know if I talk about this one in the book either. There's just been so many like it. Literally every week I have something that blows my mind.

Yeah.

And so I remember I was speaking in Deerfield Beach, Florida, and I land in Lauderdale, and I don't even have my. My presentation done. And so I figured I'll just get there early, just, you know, whip it up there. And so I'm driving down the road toward the event, and I have the thought I'm just going to get there early and finish my presentation. And I get no.

I'm like, no. Okay.

You are. You want me to stop somewhere else? Yes. Okay. Keep you more specific or you want me to stop? And I. I swear to you, I swear to you, Burger King. Like, come on. This is the devil, man.

This is the devil.

Devil. Get out of here. I cast you out in Jesus name and Burger King. Okay? And I hear Burger king, and about 10 seconds later, there's a Burger King up on the right that I. I hadn't seen when I heard it, but now it's there. Yeah. And so I pull in, and this is one of the weirdest experiences I've ever had. I. I walk up to. So I. I put my backpack on. So I figured, okay, I'll just work on my presentation here. Maybe I'm supposed to meet somebody. I don't know. And so worst case, grab some onion rings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in case. And so I start walking to the cash register. And the girl looks at me and, and her name was.

Ray. Rayletta or something. It was something with a Ray. It was Ray something.

Yeah, Ray.

I don't know. And so I'm walking up to the counter and she sees me and she starts backing up and she starts doing like, shaking her head and she starts doing this, and she says, your presence. And she starts crying.

And, and I'm like, are you okay? And she's like, I, I don't ever act this way. Like this is. I've never had this experience before. And, and, and I, I knew, I knew at that point what something was going on. And I said, listen, guy told me to come into this Burger King and I suspect is to talk to you. And she's like, my best friend just died. And I'm like, I'm so sorry to hear that. And so I hug her, I pray with her. And it was just, it was just so magical and strange and wonderful.

And that was the second time I've had something like that happen. The first time I, I get nudged to go into the seafood restaurant, I, I was, I was in a hurry. I'm like, why am I going in for the sit down food restaurant by myself?

Yeah.

I go in and I asked the waitress, is there anything I could pray for you about? And she starts crying because her son had died 60 days earlier and her name was Jessica. And so, you know, I pray for her, I give her a big hug and you know, God, if you're, if you're obedient, see those. You only get these weird, wild experiences when you're obedient and it doesn't make sense. How easy would it have been for me to say, okay, not going to Burger King and I'm not going there. That's inconvenient. And so I just learned to trust. If he tells me go into somewhere, I go. If he tells me go to an event, I go. Whether I. Where I think it makes sense or not. And so that's, I just, you know, and, and here's the thing with faith that may help you, right? Is there is no risk without faith. There's a risk. There's a risk factor with faith. Yeah, it's a move you may not want to make. It's a, it's a, it's move that. Like when I got nudged in prayer to share my faith with my dad, who I'd only seen twice in 28 years, who I hadn't had a phone call with in 20 years.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do it. And that day he came to Christ, it made no sense. But that's how God works. Is he. He wants you to experience his this being more than a conqueror. He wants you to experience being a champion. He wants you experience overcome and joy and, and just surprises. He wants to keep it interesting for you. But some people revel at how, how long God's been calling me to write a book or how long God's been calling to do something or forgive somebody or do this or do that.

Yeah.

And just understand that delayed obedience is disobedience.

Yeah.

And so it doesn't mean he hates you. It doesn't mean you're going to have to say, you know, do 50 push ups in hell or something like that. It just means you don't, you don't get to get to your calling as quickly as you could have. And that's real bummer. Yeah.

You know, it's interesting, I had a couple thoughts. So first of all.

Oftentimes the repentance of another person is simply waiting for permission from somebody that they wronged.

Absolutely right.

So in this moment, and this is just coming to me now.

This moment with your dad. Right. There was a. Probably a part of him that already, that already lived with a level of regret that was probably unvocalized inside. And then all of a sudden the presence does show up. The urging is there, the nudging is there acting in obedience. I don't know what could be better than freeing a soul.

There's nothing better.

You know, freeing a soul from torment, self torment, lies, misalignment, all kinds of stuff. You know, And I just, I just think that's just an incredibly powerful thing. The second thing that comes to mind is.

At least in my life, and it sounds like in yours as well, as you start to take action on these different obedient aspects and as God starts to show up in just random weird ways that you're not expecting. They're, you know, they're, they can be. I've seen small miracles. I've seen big miracles. I've, I've gone into situations that, Lord, I don't know how this is going to come together. And then it just literally the day of, comes together like with, with like no, no friction whatsoever. Right.

That's right.

One of the things that I discovered was this actually happened as soon as I had my, my salvation experience is these things build upon the mother. They're themselves. And over time your faith gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the Request in obedience. The miracles get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

Yes.

You know, so when someone tells me that someone like yourself, who's already been incredibly successful, not just in business, also with people. Well, you had already masked a large following just in the network marketing space, and, and you had served them. You know, even when I, when I had you speak at my event a number of years ago.

Yeah.

Like, you, you came in with the heart of service. It wasn't. There was no showboating or whatever. I mean, you came in with the heart of service. And this is before, you know, the last 18 months, I guess you call it.

Yeah.

When they tell, they, when, when I hear you say that these people are telling you that you're.

Manifestation is not the word.

The fold, the return, the roi, if you will, that, you know, you're investing in now and, and committed and sharing about Christ, you're now, I'm sure you're committed to helping people at a different level than you were before, even though it was already present.

Right.

So when you tell me that, yeah, in the last year we had a thousand people, this event looks like this year we'll have 3,000, I honestly think that's the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah.

I think as long as you keep walking in faith and keep walking in obedience and just keep on this journey, you know, when we've been talking almost an hour now and like, I could talk to you for a long. A lot longer, and just about these subjects we didn't cover. Obedience, servanthood, love, vulnerability, courage, humility, leadership, diligence, abundance, gratitude, stewardship, patience.

Like there's so many different things that.

He has shared with you.

Yeah.

On this journey and brother to brother, I just want to thank you for being obedient to the call one, and then obedient to the servanthood two, because you are absolutely. You and Jessica, but are absolutely doing. You're gonna do amazing things that you haven't even seen yet. And I'm excited for you. I really am.

Thank you, man.

And wrapping up the show because I know we have to kind of wrap it up. Is there one specific of the 12 that you're feeling called to in your heart right now to share with the audience that maybe. Because obviously we haven't had a chance to touch on a lot of the things that are in the book. And again, the book's phenomenal. Everybody should grab it, like, especially if you're on the cusp of understanding more about faith and whether I actually think it's good. I think It's a great book. Not even just for network marketers. Yeah, I think it's a great book for understanding how to incorporate faith.

Yeah. Because you're. I mean, you're not in network marketing, right? Yeah.

I mean, other than having great relationships, but.

Yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah, it's a great vehicle for a lot of folks. But if there was one that's on your heart that you feel like you need to share about, what would it be?

You know, as soon as we got on here, there was a verse that. That just has been on my heart. And as far as. Where would this fit?

I'm not sure exactly what chapter it would fit, but it. But it fits across your entire life. And that verse is 2nd Corinthians 5:17, and 2nd Corinthians 5:17 is all about. You are a new creation. The old has passed away. And so how this works. Right. So if you look at, you know, James 1:2, James 1:2 says, Count it. I'll join my brothers when you face trials of different sorts, for they produce in you a perseverance. Right. Hebrews 12:11 says, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Okay. But it. But it. It grows you, basically. Yeah. And so here's. Here's the deal. If you can apply this one. Verse 2 Corinthians 5:17, is.

God will allow situations in your life, and you will have free will and a choice. You can either choose to walk in the new creation, or you can choose to do the old pattern. Do your old reaction. Yeah, right. React the same way you always do. Be frustrated, upset, disappointed, all that stuff. Right. And so I'll give you. I'll give you an example. Okay.

What.

What does that look like? So maybe it was in May. So about. About a month and a half ago, my wife and I spoke at a.

Fundraiser for kids in foster care, and we had a bunch of friends there, and we'd invited a lot of people. And one of the guys that I invited, I knew he was Christian. I'd only met him twice, and I was looking forward to connecting with him because I knew he was coming, so. Cool. And he left early, so I didn't get a chance to connect with him. Well, afterwards, we go to.

Some of us went to a bar, and he was there. And so I walked up to him and I said, you know, hey, man. Didn't get a chance to connect with you, you know, did you enjoy the event? He. And he said, ray, you were amazing. You were authentic and a great speaker and everything. But that doctor. Oh, she Was terrible. She went on and on about herself. And, you know, that doctor is. You know, I've known her since high school. She's worked with kids in foster care for 20 years. She's dealt with the toughest of the tough. Right? Yeah. And so that doctor went on and on and on and on. That event was, you know, terrible. I'm a professional speaker, and it was no good. And. And so the old me, right, because now. Now God has allowed a situation. Because God allowed all situations. Right. And so God has allowed this situation. What is. What am I to do? Yeah. And. And so the old me would have been like, what's your problem, dude? It's for kids in foster care. Like, get a grip. Right? That's. That's the old. Yeah, that's the nice old name. And, you know, and. And so I'm trying to tap in, and I honestly don't know how to respond to this. And. And so all I can come up with, because we're called to be kind, we're called to be of love. All I said, all I could come up with was, I'm sorry, that was your experience.

Yeah.

And. And so the next morning, every morning, I. I have a lot of prayers, but one of the prayers I. I throw out there is, father, how can I demonstrate my faith today? And sometimes I don't get anything. Yeah. A lot of times I get trust, which means something's going to happen that day that I don't want to happen, and I just need to trust. And today I got that day. I got his name. So I'm like, okay, all right. What am I doing here? And so I got, you know, kind of long story short here is I got to speak to him how God sees him, not how he acts.

Yeah.

And so I prayed about him, and I'm like, okay, God, how do you see this guy? Gentle, wise, and kind. Okay. And so I reach out to a couple people because I don't have his number. I've only met him, you know, three times now at the bar. Yeah.

And.

And so I reach out, get his phone number, and it's pretty early in the morning, so I send him an audio message, text it to him, and I just say, hey, man, you know, again, I just want to say sorry, that was your experience at the event. And, you know, honestly, I'm a new, you know, new brother in Christ. And, you know, I didn't know how to respond to you, but I realized something. I realized that wasn't you. And so I prayed about you. And God sees You as gentle, wise and kind. And that's the kind of guy I'd love to have a relationship with.

Yeah.

And so he tries to call me back. I was in a meeting, he leaves me an audio and he's choked up. Yeah. And he said, dude, I was so rude to you. I was a jerk. I just had an argument right before I saw you. I was bullied as a kid and there was a lot of triggering things at that event. And dude, first of all, I'm so sorry. And number two, for you to respond this way. This is the kindest thing anyone's ever said to me in my life.

Yeah.

Like I got to get to know you. Yeah. And that's walking in the new creation. When you walk in the new creation, when you don't react the way you should, the, the way the world would have you react, when you, when you respond with the love of the Father, transformation occurs. You know, the Old Testament called it heaping hot coals on their heads. Right. And there's, you know, strange, right. Love in your enemies. Bless those who persecute you. Like, it doesn't stop there. When you love your enemies.

Right.

When you bless those who persecute you, it changes their heart. And that's exactly what, what happened. And, and so, you know, I would just encourage you when you're in a situation that God has allowed, he's allowed it because he loves you so much. He doesn't want you to remain the same. He wants you to grow into the, the fully developed, purpose filled person that you were. You're meant to be, that you're called to be, you're anointed to be. And, and you, but you have free will. You can. And, and here's how it works. The lesson is repeated until it's learned. And so some people have had the same relationship a hundred times because they just won't walk in the new creation. And so I love you so much. He's going to keep allowing that situation to happen because he, he sees the breakthrough for your future. He knows every hair on your head. And, and so that's, that's what I was called to share, is just learn to walk in the new creation. Learn to. When ye lack wisdom, ask, and it'll be given to you liberally and without reproach.

Yeah.

And when you do that, you're going to have supernatural results in your life that just don't make any sense at all, dude.

I mean, anyway, I'm, I'm stunned. There's nothing else I could say. The only other thing that I'm being led to ask for, which I don't normally do, I think it's only happened one time on. In over 200 shows.

Wow.

And that is for a request for you to pray us out.

Oh, yeah. Amen. Absolutely. So, Father, we're just so grateful for our time together. And, Father, we just. We just ask that. That whoever hears this, that it really blesses them and it lights their path towards you. Lord, we're all. We know that we're all hardwired to desire a connection with you. And let that connection be made complete by someone hearing this and turning towards you. And we know, as the prodigal son instructs us, that while we are still far off, still far off, you will run to us. Lord and Father, we just thank you. We thank you for clarity, guidance, direction, wisdom, strength and discernment. We thank you for healing, harmony, order and balance in our bodies, hearts and minds of everyone listening here today. And we're just so grateful. You're worthy of our praise. You're the holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come, worthy of all glory, honor, power and strength. And we are honored to be your children, Lord. Let us always put you first, Lord. Let us always trust in you and lean on you. Let us always develop those areas of our lives where we still have disbelief. And let our faith be made complete. Lord, we're just so grateful for you. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen.

Thanks, brother. Yeah, everybody grabbed the book, of course, but I hope you guys enjoyed this one of a kind conversation. My good friend, Ray Higdon. Dude, thank you so much.

Thank you, brother.

All right, take it easy. See ya. I hope you liked that video. And if you did, make sure you check out this next video right here.

There's a certain value that we gain from the contrast of our good work when we are consistently better.