How to Become Abundant in All You Do and Receive More Than You Expect | Cathy Heller

Either you try to control it and do it, or you say to God, you do it, and all of a sudden you're available for the level of miracles. People say, once I have $5 million, I'll be abundant, I'll be generous. It's like you could be generous today when you show up and you fully serve and you are a channel for something bigger than yourself. It's called love. It's called empathy. It's called kindness. You're overqualified to give that today. And the gifts are not exiting the business or having something fancy to post on Instagram. The gifts are moment by moment. Are you feeling and receiving the gift of life and are you contributing to life? And every belief is a spell because you cannot outperform your identity. So if your thoughts are money is not safe or money will make me evil, you're not going to let yourself have it. You will repel it all day long.

Guys, here welcome my good friend, Kathy Heller. Kathy, what's going on?

Oh my gosh, you're such a light. It's so awesome.

First of all, to meet people in general who have the depth that you have. But I just have to say, like, this is what, like, the true masculine energy looks like. It's just like kindness, protection, safety, authenticity, strength, vulnerability.

And I just want to put you on a jumbotron because I just think it's, it's so beautiful and it's so rare and it's, it's great. It's so great.

Well, I, I don't even know what to say other than thank you very kind words. You know, I think it's like one of the cool things. And this is one of the reasons I'm so excited to talk about abundance, all things abundance. You know, your work in general precedes itself. You've changed countless lives already. You continue to show up day in and day out to do the same thing. I fell in love with the same passion of, like, how do I help people become more of their designed destiny, if you will. And I know we share that in common, but it had me thinking, you know, you just mentioned all the, the healthy masculine piece. I've been on a journey, like the last 12, 18 months, really. You know, I exited, I sold a company. The last time you and I chatted, I was still running a very large organization doing about, you know, upwards of nine figures in top line revenue annually. 400 team members across three states.

Knew from the depths of my soul that when I started the company that one day I would be called out of it. And then he put into. And then from that standpoint, moved to Utah, hung out with a good friend of mine, Randy Garn, out there for a year and a half. He got, he got moved to Texas. And then I said, I just recently moved back to the Carolinas. The reason I'm sharing this is because one of the things that I've realized about the work that you've been doing is you help people understand the importance of being present in the now and grateful in the now to prepare the path for the future and, you know, this healthy, masculine journey and if you want to, you know, call it that. When I went to Utah, the Last half of 2023, it was just basically me, God, the divine, and a house in Utah. I woke up each morning and I started a new journaling practice called what I hear you say is. So I would write at the top of a page at the very. Every morning, and I would just hear what I hear you say is. And it was so. It was so amazing because I would sit there and it would force me as a go getter, someone who's just always doing, going, going, going, going, going to sit still. And I, I. My grandfather growing up, he's like, be still and know that I am God. Like, he would constantly tell me that repeatedly over the psalms, right? And I would lean, I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, I hear you. He's like, you hear me, but you're not listening to me kind of thing. So I had this, this event happen post exit. You know, in theory, I've got all the money that you think you need. You can travel, could do all the cool things that you think you can do. On paper, I was abundant, but inside I wasn't. And that was that season that actually recently shaped me or reshaped me. So much so that I began to teach this concept called the five constraints, Arrogance, ignorance and patience, fear and insecurity. And I just rattled those off. My audience has heard him a few, I heard that concept a few times. But the word impatience, when I think about the word impatience, the opposite to me is presence. And I never ever sat in presence before. And when I started this journaling practice, I would write down, I would literally sit there, I would. Today's date. What I hear you say is sometimes I was sitting there, I kid you not, for 30 seconds. Sometimes it was three minutes, sometimes it was 10 minutes, sometimes I got one word, and as I was finishing the first word, the second word would appear.

And I know so much of the work that you're teaching people how to do is how to operate in this presence, to really sense the frequency of abundance. And I'd never done that before. So I was hoping that we could start off by stillness and presence and just hearing more about kind of how you see it.

That is so beautiful. And I feel so honored to have just let those words wash over me. That is so. It's. There is nothing else other than that. Like, so often people are saying to me, how do you create abundance? You know, what if it hasn't shown up yet out, you know, out there in the real reality of your life? And I'm like, what. What is it that you're searching for? What is the fruit that you're looking for? Because the real abundance is your day. Feels like art.

Yeah.

Ooh. You know, the real abundance is your day as an altar to the divine.

Yeah.

Your. Your real abundance is. Give you an example. Last yesterday, I said to my daughters, they're doing homeschool, so they're, you know, when they finish, they have a couple tutoring sessions. When they finish, I'm like, let's go take a walk. Like, where are we going? I'm like, I don't know. God knows. God makes all of our appointments. Let's go see. So we park the car on a random block in Santa Monica because we're visiting LA this month, and we take a walk to the beach. And sure enough, we get there, and this older man, he must be in his, like, 70s, he's got walnuts in his hand, and the squirrels are running up to his hand, eating these walnuts, running back, and we're looking out over the water, and I didn't know what was more beautiful. This man who's clearly been doing this every day, just watching, like, heaven on earth, the water, the sky, or what was cuter, him or the little squirrel. It was so special. And then my kid said, oh, my gosh, this is so cool. We took videos of these little squirrels. I talked to this older man, such a gentle soul. And I'm thinking, gosh, there's no one else at this park. At 1:45, no one's looking at all this stuff. And you look out and you see the birds and you see the water, and you smell the smells. And there's a rose bush. My daughter goes, smell. This smells like perfume. And I thought, is heaven actually on earth? And we miss it because this is amazing. This is literally 10 out of 10. And then we go to a restaurant. This is all part of the conversation. We're having at presents. We go to a restaurant. Never been there before. I saw good reviews for Italian food. I'm like, let's go. They make good pasta. We sit down, and I say to the hostess, I'm like, you know, it's 5:15. The glare was coming through the window. I said, can we scoot over? Because the light is actually going to give me a headache. She's like, sure, I'll move you over here. So we sit next to this other table, and sitting there is a woman sitting by herself. She Turns out She's 36 years old. She's there alone. She's a Hindu girl from India who flew in to see Yitzhak Perlman play classical music at the Disney Concert Hall. And then she took an Uber to this restaurant. She's sitting alone. So I said to her, why don't you join us? So she's in med school. She's really interesting. She lives in Scottsdale. I just loved this girl. And then I walked over to the waiter and I said, can I buy her dinner?

Yeah.

So I buy her dinner, and she starts to cry. And she says, you know, my parents said, oh, it's so frustrating. You're still not married because you got to do these adventures on your own. You're always alone. We don't like it. She goes, I'm not alone. I am so grateful that I met you guys. And I had the most awesome conversation with her. She was so interesting. And she did me the favor, right, that I could buy her dinner. It was like nothing, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And I said to the kids, I go, you. You see how magical it is when you're present to life itself, how rich it is that in every moment, God sent you right there.

Yeah.

And there's a gift there. And the gifts are not exiting the business or having something fancy to post on Instagram. The gifts are moment by moment. Are you feeling and receiving the gift of life? And are you contributing to life? And when you're in that divine choreography.

What'S amazing about that is not only does life get so good, but those are the ways that you actually produce abundance. Right? Like, that's all of my friends who are, you know, doing incredible work. Ryan Holiday said to me, he's, you know, he's. He practices stoicism. He teaches it. He's like, I'll sit there in front of the cursor on my computer, like, I gotta write my next bestselling book, and it won't come. It won't come. Sure enough, he goes, my wife Will nag me and say, forget it. We're going on a vacation. And he said to her, I can't go on a vacation. I gotta write another book. I have a deadline, and I can't get the book. Sure enough, he says, fine, I'll go on vacation. And three days into the vacation, he finally shows up. On the vacation, he's finally present. He said he's sitting in the sand with his daughter. And he goes, oh, my God. The obstacle is the way. I think I got the book. It's like.

God is waiting in the wings for you to show up in the moment fully. And boom, like, every billion dollars ever made anyway, came from an idea, came from consciousness, came from Walt Disney, came from. Right? It's like, yeah, you got to get quiet. You got to go inside.

Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's so amazing. You know, it's funny. I. During the sea, I had already been doing. It's a bit of a mantra. I'd also do it every morning. I do it four times because of the woman I've been dating of now, she's. She's even better at presence than I am. She. Now she says, well, it's. It's a great. It's a great to have the mantra, and it's clearly benefited your life. She goes, but are you even breathing in between the statements? I was like, ow, but good. A good owl. And it's. I am healthy. And now I go, I am healthy. And I'm like, I am wealthy. Same thing. I am wise. I'm a steward of the most high. And the one that was the hardest, the longest was, I love you, Stephen.

You know what I'm saying? And I feel like I was on a show not that long ago, being interviewed, and they were like, what do you think is standing in people's way?

What do you think is standing in people's way from living their off. What I call the authentic life, the life that you were created to live. Because I find that. And we can talk about more of this, because I've heard you drop bombs on this. But essentially, we. We live the lives that we're told to live, you know, or, you know, parent, parental upbringing, all the kinds of things we chase. And I realized this entire time, I was like, I was. I built a very successful business by forcing, chasing and pursuing worth.

Which is nuts to me, that you can create momentum, you can create abundance on paper, but it's not abundance on the inside, you know, and another thing that I did during this season was when I began Doing this, this, and I do this every morning. Because here's what I realized and I'd love. On the subject of presence, you and I can jam for days. So I, I'm going to try to.

I love it. I'm here. I love every second.

I realized that if I, if I didn't start my day with a presence practice, I would never end my day with a presence practice. So if I started my day in anxious energy and hustle. So I told them the big. My, my big aha was hustle culture must die. Hustle culture, not in don't have ambitions, don't have goals, don't have, you know, don't have dreams and aspirations. But don't use anxious energy to pursue it. Instead, use embodied frequency to get it. And when I began hearing this, this new.

That's so good.

You know what I'm saying? I began hearing as I was listening to the audiobook. By the way, I all. I just love your work. And for anybody who hasn't gotten the new book yet, Abundance Ever after, they should go grab it. They should also be in part of every community you have. I'm just being honest.

So generous.

Thank you. But I like, I try to send people to people of light, so to speak. People who are actively a conduit of the divine, actively letting frequency come through them to be expounded past them. And that's one of the reasons you and I have always jammed. But I share that. To say that the other thing that I did, you just mentioned with Ryan Holiday is back in February, I actually went to New Zealand for three weeks on my own on a sabbatical.

So cool.

With. With no like agenda. I partnered with an organization called Fast pack. I met 13 strangers from around the world. Traveled the entire country with 13 strangers for three months.

That's so dope.

It was. It was epic. And actually just got back from Greece last night, believe it or not, to make sure we did this. But I guess what I'm saying this is. Have you seen evidence of. I feel like. I feel like we have. But have you seen evidence of the importance of intentionally pulling away to kind of like find your way a little bit? Like I said, oh, my God.

Oh, my God. One zillion percent. One zillion percent. You know, we've talked about this a little bit, but I'll give you two examples. Well, I have so many. But, you know, one example is that after college and everybody had a plan, I'm going to move to New York City. I'm going to go to law school, I'm going to go to business school. Everyone had a plan. I was like, I don't know what my plan is. You know, I just want to get closer to God. I don't. What's my plan? I want to be in my divine assignment. I want to be of use. I want to be obedient. What's my fricking plan? And so I was like, you know what, I'm going to go to Jerusalem. And I thought I was going to be there for a few weeks. And I, of course stayed for three years. And as soon as I landed, I was like, oh, the most productive thing I could do is to be still and know God. As you said, it was like the way I was seeing, you know, when Moses was up on that mountain. What we believe is like God showed Moses like all the dimensions of this universe, how it works, the amount of compassion that's keeping the earth on its axis. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, think about like.

A full time job.

Seriously. You think about how much compassion God has to have for us to like not send another flood. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, it's massive. It's massive, right? But it's like I was watching myself relearn a whole new software program, right? And then when I left and I moved from Israel to California, I. Then a friend of mine took me to, to my first meditation, silent retreat. I thought, oh, let me get some yoga clothes. That'll be easy. Oh my God. Was so hard. I was dying. I was, I sat down first. 40 minutes. It was a week. I go, a week. She goes, she sold me like this. Come with me. It's in Northern California. It's gorgeous. You're going to get to be in nature. You're going to get quiet time. I'm like, oh, great. You know, 40 minutes into a week, I'm like, my back hurts, I can't sit. Oh my God. I'm thinking, how do these people sit still? Sitting still, stuck. Then I was thinking, sitting still is harder than lifting weights. This is so hard. I was losing, literally losing my mind, right? Until the teacher said, because she could see a few of us struggling. So she spoke, which you're not really supposed to speak, but she could speak. And she said, you know, you're not supposed to sit in your mind. You're supposed to notice your mind right now. Just watch it, just be curious. Don't judge it, just witness. Like, are you thinking about what you had for lunch? Are you thinking about how angry you are at your cousin for what he said. Like, just find it fascinating. Just be a non judgmental awareness. All of a sudden I was like, oh, I don't have to stop my thoughts, I can just notice. But the point is, every time I've done something where I slowed it, pulled the car totally over to the side of the road, the mic drops, right? Because as above, so below the inner world, the inner resonance, the inner presence, the inner connection we have to God and to the way that we are constantly being led to the right place at the right time. When that's in sync, it turns out that life is actually a path, that there is only synchronicity. Right. When we get out of the way, stop trying to control it. And another time was I went to On Site, which is Bob Goff's program.

Bob Goff. I met Bob on the show before.

Yeah, I mean, I knew you would know him, so I said him by name.

He's just.

He's literally like, if Jesus had a refrigerator, he'd have Bob's picture on his picture. No, he's just the best. And I was like, really reluctant. I'm like, you have to give up your phone. You know, this is going to be so uncomfortable. And I went for a week and I came back with. I came back. It's interesting what you said about I love you, Stephen. Remember you said that's like.

Yeah. It's the hardest thing I ever did say to myself.

And on the way home, I read a book by Donald Miller, which of course, I know Donald Miller through the business world, but he went to On Site. So he has his memoir of his experience in Onsite in the gift shop. And I. Yeah, it's really beautiful. So it's called Scary Close. And I read it on the way home. And he talks about how the hardest thing was to let somebody actually close because he'd have to actually receive love and know that love is not earned. But it's just, you let somebody love you, you let someone see you. And I got so much out of that on site experience. And when I came back, it actually. You would think it would have nothing to do with my business.

My business 5X'd literally within 6 months of coming back. Because the resonance, the authenticity. Right. You could throw a stone in the water and make a small ripple, but if you throw a boulder, you make a big ripple. And when you're coming from, you think of Wayne Dyer, you think of the people who speak.

Yeah.

Without a filter. Right. From their heart, they're not trying to belong. They're not trying to get you to like them. They're just moving with something bigger than themselves. Right? That kind of light, that kind of courage. As you were just alluding to.

You slow down to speed up.

Yeah, yeah. You know, again, I love chatting with you because we literally could go for days. One of the things that I just had a thought of is or that came up for me right then was when I was in New Zealand, even though I went without a clear agenda, a path. This is because you just mentioned synchronicities. I want to kind of lay this on like, so I go to New Zealand again. I, a couple months earlier, I decided to go on a whim, you know, just like, hey, every time I have a significant event in my life, I always go. I always, I always do a sabbatical, right? And so I go there and you know, I'm, I'm, you know, I pray, I meditate, I even use tuning force from time to time. I sound. But like I just like all the things. Right.

Me too.

I'm like, give me some frequency. Just have it vibrate, right? And it's funny because I got there and I'm there for almost the entire three weeks. And I feel like I was like I was going with the intent of searching. Kind of like you were just saying like searching, like, tell me what my next step is. What do you. What am I, what am I missing? What am I not seeing? What's my perspective? Da, da, da. And it wasn't until I stopped and breathed literally just, I'm letting go. I don't have any control. I don't have any. I have nothing. Yeah, I just want to be a. I just, I just want to be an antenna of sorts, right? That. I kid you not, the last two days I was there, call it three days because of the time change, whatever. But last I had 37 synchronicities hit in a 30 minute window. And I was just balling like all these things that I thought earlier in the week were inconsequential and ended up becoming on stacked on top of each other, a monumental like thing. I literally came back reborn again. And I feel like I've gone through this death and rebirth things many times. So beautiful, you know, I feel like one of the things that has to happen. I heard you talk about this with money and I. But it's funny because I find that people, people love, you know, just finances, relationship and purpose, right? They spend almost, almost all of our time and energy on those three Sectors. And then you were given this amazing teaching on using, you know, abundance, if you will, manifestation to help people understand. Kind of like you think money is used this way.

But it's actually kind of used differently. But you did it by actually asking them, I thought was an important question.

What did your parents tell you about money? So it makes me think, what did your parents tell you about money? What'd your parents say about relationships? What tell you about you, right? And what I thought was so interesting was the exercise that you had people do. Because as soon as you did it, I was like.

I see now. So I'm curious, would you mind just kind of like sharing that little exercise real fast?

Well, we do a few of them and we do a few of them in order. One of them is we have people write themselves a check. Is that the one or is it the one where you say money?

Had them discuss what their parents taught them about money?

Well, we have a couple ways of doing it. One way of doing it is we. We kind of put a family tree together where we write down like grandma, grandpa, and then we draw an arrow to dad, and then grandma, grandpa, and arrow to mom, and then dad to you and mom to you, right? We write that down. And sometimes people don't know because they didn't know their grandparents. Sometimes people don't know because they don't know what their. Maybe someday they don't know their parents. But whoever they do know what the belief was about money, we have them write it down and what got passed down to them, right? And then we look at, okay, so to your father, money was what struggle. To your mother, money was what power. You know, does it grow on trees? Is it easy? And. And when you look at it, you realize that there's two levels of mind, right? One level of. And you know this. But just to kind of go into the exercise, there's two levels of mind. One level of mind is thought, right? Which is usually a program, right? These aren't even yours. They're not your thoughts. But you think them, right? And you think them. Why? Because somebody programmed them into you, right? And just like your screensaver does what it does because it's been programmed to do it, right? And thoughts, this is people always. Their minds are blown. When I say this, I say thoughts are not facts. Just because you think it doesn't make it true. Like, oh, yeah, that's right. So you gotta fact check your thoughts, right? So there's thought and then the other level of mind is consciousness, wisdom, right? What you said when you do your journaling in the morning. What I hear you say is that's coming from the deepest part of the wisdom that you have connected to the sanctity of the divine flowing through you. That's not on a level of thought. That's consciousness. So what you realize is you're not your thoughts. You're the witness of those thoughts. And you can make up a new story, you can choose a new belief. And every belief is a spell. You're casting a spell in your life because you cannot outperform your identity. So if your thoughts are, money is not safe or money will make me evil, you're not going to let yourself have it. You will repel it all day long. Same thing with relationships. Yeah. There are people. You know, my sister is an amazing human being. She's 49. She's still single. Because at the fundamental level, relationships don't equal safety. Right. It feels like danger. So it doesn't matter how many dating apps she's on. It doesn't matter what cute dress she's wearing. It matters that on a fundamental level, she will repel that if it doesn't feel safe. And people don't recognize that they've created an identity that traps them. Right. Versus saying all those things that you say in the morning which are really true. Right. I'm a steward of this. I'm healthy, I'm wealthy, and I love. Why would you love yourself? Because you're made in the image of the divine. Why would you not love yourself? And also, if you're meant to love your neighbor as yourself, you better love yourself. Right. Otherwise, what are you doing? So, yes, we need to look at what subconscious belief was drilled into us, and we can change that software programming and say, you know what? Money is a blessing. Right. And what I tell people is money is an activator. So whatever. It's like rain falling in a garden.

If.

If rain falls on weeds, weeds grow. If rain falls on roses, roses grow. So money will enhance whatever you are. So if you're a person with integrity who has a blessing of money, you'll do more good with the money. If you're a person out of integrity with money, it'll exacerbate that. And so there are people with money who are really kind and generous. There are people with money who are losers. But also, there are people with no money who are kind. And there are people with no money who are horrible. There are jail cells filled with rich people and poor people. So it's not the money, it's the essence of the intention. The power of intention creates effect. So when a person is clean in their intention and they do what you said, I want to be a steward of the highest order. Right. That version of you. Money is safe with you because it's not for the self alone. It's to provide, not just for you, but for the whole garden, for the whole collective. And that's when things get really fulfilling anyway. We don't really want it for ourselves. Anytime you have an experience you like, you want to share that with somebody else. That's what makes it enjoyable.

That's so good and so true. You know, it's. It had me thinking, too, you know, during that same. That same cycle, in one of those journal sessions, it was funny. About 85% of things that were discussed in those journal sessions have already come. Have already come to pass. One of them was the term safe haven. It kept coming up. It's like, safe haven. Like, I want you to prepare a safe haven. And then I had a very vivid dream one night. And in this dream, I was at a property. And in this. At this property, I had leaders from all over the place who I. Who I now define as. I didn't know this at the time, but I now define these. These were people who have made money but lost meaning. And that safe haven would become the refuge for them to reestablish meaning. An effort to steward greater wealth or greater money.

That's incredible.

You know. Thank you. Well, here's the crazy part, because I know you. We share a similar story with this. With this house thing. So I relocate to North Carolina back. Literally on a whim, kind of got back from New Zealand, literally packed up the vehicle. I got here six months early, looked at houses off and on here, specifically at Lake Norman, which is one of the larger lakes in the. In the country. My. My backyard is three. Almost. Almost 300 degrees of lake. Like, it's amazing.

So beautiful.

Nothing but grass out here. So I walk it pretty much every morning, just kind of barefoot. It's getting a little chillier now, so the grass is a little colder. But the reason I say that is because I went to this house probably on seven different occasions. And when I was looking at properties and when I went to go look at the house, I didn't notice. I never noticed some of these things before. I noticed them the day I kind of made an offer. But I. I finally settle. I finally come to this house. My house in Utah still hadn't sold. And I was like the. The lady who. The sales agent who Was representing the woman that owned the house, came to me, and she says, hey, we got an offer on the house last night. Are you sure you don't. Make sure you don't want to make an offer? I'm like, well, I can't make an offer. I still have, you know, a few million bucks tied up in a house in Utah, so blah, blah, blah. And she goes. She goes, can you. Can you at least try to get creative? I'm like.

Sure. So I, you know, I did some things, I came back to them. And she's like, well, we actually think it'd be simpler than this. And they gave me kind of like, gave me, like, a counter offer that was in my favor, but not theirs. Turns out the offer that was on this house was about $200,000 more than what I had offered.

And literally, they create. She, the owner, the prior owner of the home. Her name. Her name's Karen. She was a sweet elderly lady. She's in her 80s, but you would think she's in her 20s. She was literally in Norway, like, Dora the Explorer, like. Like, checking things out.

Which is really cool, because I come to the house, and I noticed that. I said, I walked into the house, there's a mezuzah on the front door.

And I was like, this is why this house feels like it has a. An impeccable energy. This property I've had, I've now done. We started filming podcasts and filming. I put a virtual studio for 7,000 plus in one of the rooms down the hall, like, down the way. And. But everybody that's come here, they walk, they cross the threshold. I'm like, this house feels amazing, like, the energy here. So I say that to say all I knew was the dream of safe haven. That's all I knew. I didn't know the how, but yet when I let go of the how, the how manifested itself and. And kind of into this reality, if that makes any sense, which has me thinking a little bit about how. And Karen's, like, become. We had dinner. Like, we had dinner with her the night we closed.

That is so amazing.

She's. She's awesome. We're actually going to put a Hebrew blessing stone up in the front yard because she's obviously Jewish, and she. I told her I got a chance to. So a couple of my. My closest friends are Orthodox US Rabbis, so they all moved to north. They were in North Carolina, moved to Florida. But anyway, that's a whole other tangent.

Oh, my goodness.

But she was like, well, as soon as you have Your first Safe Haven event. She goes, I'd love. I'd love to come by. And I was like, you're always welcome. We went to closing table.

They made. They messed up some paperwork for a brief second. So she and I went to go get. I was going to grab a coffee because I'd just been late. I'd been a long day. And she goes, we. You know, she. I went and grabbed her one, too. She pulled me to the side. And she said. She goes, I just want you to let you know, I chose you for this house. I think I. I feel like you're supposed to be here. And she says she's. She and her brother built this home. Her brother was a home builder in the area briefly, and she lived here. And this is a large. You know, it's a pretty large home. She lived here by herself for the longest time. And she said, I just. She goes, I just wanted to get. Have the house, go to someone who would do good things with it.

I. I literally couldn't help. When I got in the car, we'd done the paperwork. I got in the car and just call and just cried, like, just. And I say that to say, because me. Historically, a year prior would have been like, no, we got to get a deal done. We got to do this, we got to do this, we got to do that. And lo and behold, it was just being present in the. Waiting with a note new, knowing that a promise was already made and a promise was coming to let it all come to pass in its own timing. And I guess the.

Wow. No, I mean, that is so beautiful. It's such an honor to even hear it.

Thank you.

It just goes, go ahead.

Yeah, I was gonna say that. It had me thinking. It's like.

And all the work that you're doing.

What keeps getting in people's way, like, what do you see that really is the. Is the. Is the. Is the primal block or the main core blocks that they have to focus on. Because I was, in my own way, I was the block before some of these divine synchronicities began happening. But I can't. I don't know if I can articulate what changed outside of me literally pursuing presence and stillness.

Well, really, that's it. Because ultimately, here's the deal, right?

Either you try to control it and do it, or you say to God, you do it, and all of a sudden, you're available for the level of miracles, right? All of a sudden, you're available for the mystical. You know, it says in the Bible that when when the Israelites were in Egypt, enslaved, right? They were going through this journey, and then they finally had this idea, which is to call out to God and say, could you help us out? And you read that and you're like, why did that take you 200 years?

Yeah.

Why didn't you ask for it on day one? Oh, because we think, I got to figure this out. I got to figure it out. The amount of times people will say to me, I have to figure this out. And I'm thinking, do you really? Or is there a way bigger, way grander path for you if you could sit down trying to control this and believe, right? So this is the thing. Certainty. You're never going to have certainty about how things are going to go, right? That's actually not something that you're going to get. But what you could. You could have certainty that God runs the world.

And when you have that certainty, you don't believe in the illusion. You say, I know it's here. I know it's going to come. Right? And because you trust in that, you're now available for that level of the miracle, right? And that's when life gets really, really good. Because what do we really know, right? When I moved out to Los Angeles, I wanted to be a songwriter, because all my life, that was the thing that I thought made me special. That was the thing I love to do. And so I got a record deal at Interscope, and then I got dropped, and then I got a record deal at Atlantic Records, and I was like, oh, cool, I'm gonna do this. And then I got dropped from Atlantic Records, and I wound up writing music for TV and film for 10 years. And I had songs of mine on different shows, and my friends would be like, oh, I heard you on Grey's Anatomy or whatever. Fine. It was kind of cool. But then I heard God say, I sent you to use your voice. You really think your voice is best used in the back of a McDonald's commercial? And so I started a podcast called Don't Keep youp Day Job. And at the beginning of every episode, I would say, God has put you on assignment. You're not here to do a job. You have a life's work.

Yeah.

And I don't know what it is. It could be listening to people. It could be. It could be painting. It could be doing math. It could be playing basketball. There's something that when you do it, you channel greatness, Right? And I want you on assignment. And that thing, I started it in my closet, and it took off and then from there, you know, we've just been having a deeper and deeper spiritual conversation, pretty much. But I didn't know what was best for me, right? And so when I set it down, it was even easier than recording these songs and dressing like someone I don't wanna dress like and touring the country. No, no, no. Instead it was like, how about just talk over people? How about just use your voice and I'll give you the words, and you can then be wherever you are and just love people into life, right? And so.

The name of the game is, if you look out in nature, nothing's rushing. Trees aren't urgent, they're not rushing. Everything's being provided for. There's so much abundance, there's so much provision. But we get so worried that there's not. So we start to try to, like, get in the way, try to hustle and figure. It's like, no, no, no. What if it's waiting for you to trust and just be led to what's going to be the next divine synchronicity and boom. I mean, I was checking into the hotel. I'm sitting in right now. I was checking in Last Friday at 1:40 in the afternoon on a Friday. Just random time. I go to the desk and as I'm checking in, I look over and Marianne Williamson's checking in. And she turns to me, she goes, kathy Heller. She goes, there are no accidents. We're both checking in the same time. I didn't know she was going to be in la. And she goes, can we. Can we have a seat? And so we know each other. We sit down, we're catching up. She's telling me about her new book. She's telling me about, you know, the mystical Jesus and what she's working on, all this stuff. And I'm like. And then she turns to me, she goes, what did I say? There are no accidents. She goes, God makes all my appointments. I go, that's right. You don't have to do anything, you know, but how do you wind up at the right place at the right time?

Yeah.

When you know that he's always aware of your address and there is always. He's your cfo, and it's always bigger than what you think. You move into the energy of that solution, you're going to walk right into the solution. It's so much bigger. It's that we are so sure we know, and then we think, we got to figure this out and figure that out. It's not how it works, Right? All of the best Things. It's like, how did you and I meet? It's being on the same radio station. I don't know. It's not like we, like, sat down. It's just the most delicious things come into your life, you know? I wound up going to Jerusalem because you know that story. I went to meet my sister in Orlando, and I got lost. And so by getting lost, I wound up getting there late. She had already left for the airport. I met this rabbi, and I was like, who is this person? I've never met someone like this. And he's like, yeah, this is a whole other. There's a whole other path to understanding the universe. Do you want to come to Jerusalem? And I'm like, I guess that's where I'm going next. So what if you're never lost? What if there's something looking to have a relationship with you? And also, I would just say that you said it earlier with this struggle that we all have to, like, love ourself, right? Because the light of God is so infinite. It's so big, and it's looking for a vessel to pour through. Right? Wherever there's a crack, the light's going to come right through. When we don't feel worthy of being a vehicle for the light, we block it. And what we have to remember is God doesn't care about how impressive you are. He doesn't care how much you, you know, how many good college degrees you. How many letters you have behind your name or what your zip code is or how tall you are, how short you are, what you look like. What matters is that you're just a. A willing recipient to emanate goodness, to emanate kindness. And the most impressive people are the most loving, present people. So why would you not love yourself when who you are is someone who wants to raise their hand to say, I just want to be a steward of love and kindness and compassion. What's not to love about that? Right? It's because growing up, we thought love had to be earned. We thought love was about.

I think human love is in some cases.

In some cases, that's really transactional. That's really not love.

Yeah.

You know, so when we start to come back to being available, then all of a sudden we can open up to allow for more to come through us. I think that people are eating crumbs when there's a whole buffet, and you're just not allowing yourself to take from it. And I think that God created a world that's so beautiful because he wants us to Enjoy it and share it. And we almost think that we feel guilty around enjoying it and having it, so then we block ourselves from having it. It's like, who am I to have it? Well, maybe you saw parents who felt like, who am I to have anything? So they think, that's humility. That's not humility. Right. King David had an empire and he was so spiritual, wrote all these psalms. That's humility. It's like in having all of this, do you still know where your bread is actually buttered? That's humility.

Yeah. Yeah. I've got a new book coming out next year called One Part Lion, One Part Lamb, A Leader's Guide to Rise, Leading Last. And it's actually largely built on my own journey, but also on King David's. I've always told people all the time, I said, he was made a king in a cave, not a king in a palace. That's where he. That's where he proved that he had the character to carry that mantle. Future into the future. But one thing you. That's very unique about King David that I always felt was really, really unique was there was even a time he put on the ephod, which was priestly garments he wasn't supposed to be wearing. But he was in tune with God to know that, hey, I am. I am a. Both a spirit and I'm also a warrior. I'm. I'm both. I'm. I'm also. I'm a poet, I'm a songwriter. I'm also a warrior. Like, he had this. This amazing. This amazing ability to embody the best part of humanity, which is why I believe it says that he was, you know, he. He was a man after God's own heart. I feel like God just wants us to be connected. Like, he just wants us to be true. And what I realized, and I had this epiphany when I was flying back from Greece, it's like, I don't know where this came from other than divine. But a little bit. Little bit of a download is like we spend all of our time trying to create truth rather than just tapping into truth. It's like we follow what. Like we. We're. We're chasing, like, oh, my gosh, you have your truth and I have my truth, and you have your truth and I have my truth. I'm like, what if it's just truth? Like, if it's truth, it's. It's. It's not biasable. Like, it can't have bias, right? Love is truth. They say That I believe this, too, that the only higher frequency than love is authenticity.

That's right.

Right. So the magnetic position of attracting is not doing. It's being right. And I've had such a hard time learning this lesson. I always used to joke around. I'm one of the more stubborn children. Like, I have to, like, put my finger in the light socket and, like, do the. Do the dumb things to kind of really get it. But anyway, I. I don't want to run up on time, but if there's one thing that you think is probably the most confusing or somehow the most distracting about what it really means to walk into and create abundance from the inside out, what do you think it would be?

I think it's that we think on some level it's confusing because we're chasing piles of things.

And really the deepest abundance is the feeling of.

Really hearing those kind of divine downloads or.

Enjoying your own company, feeling inner peace, having the perspective that you see the beauty all around you. Like that. You know, that is a mic drop, just having that. And so I think that.

Wholeness creates abundance. Lack doesn't create it. So when we're thinking that we need something outside of us to feel bigger and greater, we're just going to keep pushing it away. But when we actually uncover the depth and the wholeness and the. The. That portal where we can get downloads, like, you just got that. That's real abundance. Right. And that lives within you. And so when you walk into a room, you don't walk in like you need something. You walk in like you're there to give something.

Yes.

So when you have it to give, that is what is reflected back in your abundance.

Yeah.

When you're looking for it outside of you, that is literally where the block is. And so, you know, Matthew McConaughey, you reminded me of him a few times when you said you went on this battle called New Zealand.

He has a lot more hair than I do still.

But you're both just as awesome. And he said to me that. I mean, he's told this story so many times, but I had a fun time talking to him. But he said that when he walked in to read for the movie A Time to Kill, he wasn't supposed to be able to read for it. And his agent was like, well, they're not even considering you for the leading man because you don't have any big credits yet. And his mom called him and she said, don't walk in like you're trying to buy the place. Walk in like you own it.

Like, you don't need anything.

Yeah.

You're there to give it.

Yeah.

You got it already.

That's so good.

Right? And you know that story of Nelson Mandela? He's, like, pacing, and he's like, I'm never gonna get out of here. And then one day he's like, what if I could get out of here? And so he starts writing to the US Government until one day he gets a letter. We're gonna get you out of there. And then he says to himself, who's going to lead this nation? And then he says, I'm going to lead this nation.

Yeah. Boom. Yeah.

Now he's, well, what the heck is that? Well, you already been anointed, so where the heck are you?

Yeah.

When I started my podcast, I just felt the assignment like, you know, open your heart. Words from the heart, enter the heart. Just do it. Stop looking at the outcome.

Yeah.

Come from what you have to give, not from what you need to get. And when you come from that place, the vibration is different, the frequency lands differently. Right. And now, all of a sudden, I was like, whoa, how do we amass 55 million downloads? I wasn't even trying to. I really wasn't. It's because I wasn't looking to get it. I just wanted to give it. And so that's abundance. Right. People say, once I have $5 million, I'll be abundant. I'll be generous. It's like you could be generous today. So what I would think about is what is inside of me that I've been saying I'm not expert enough or I don't love myself enough to. It's a no.

No.

When you show up and you fully serve and you are a channel for something bigger than yourself, it's called love. It's called empathy. It's called kindness. You're overqualified to give that today.

Yeah.

So I don't. I don't want to see anyone sitting it out. Right. Then from there, it's like you show up, and moment by moment, your job is not to try to get some big accolade. It's to be present every second of the day with whoever's in front of you, because that's. God's put you on assignment with that person.

Yeah.

And when you're aware of how big those little moments are and what you have to give and how significant you are, every time you show up with wholeness and give, abundance cannot miss you because it's a match to that.

So good. It's so good. That's Why? I love you to death. Well, I want to. I want to honor your time commitment. I know you got the girls next door and they're about to finish up school and whatnot. Where can I find out more about the book, more about the trainings? Are you still doing Bundle. Are you still doing, like, free giveaways for books and stuff like that?

Totally. But you're so, so, so good at what you do. You're such a deep soul. I can't wait to hear about the lion and the lamb. What is it called? The Lion.

One part lion, one part lamb. A leader's guide to rise, lead, and last.

You know, I got to have you back to talk about it. It's going to be so good. And yes, the book comes out Simon and Schuster, funny enough, they put the paperback on 1111. Not knowing that my dad used to be like, 1111, make a wish. Make a wish. And I don't even know what that really means, but of course they put it out on that day. And my dad's essay that he wrote is at the back of the book because when he was dying in hospice, we were turning in the book last July, and I found this essay he wrote about going to pray every single day and talking to God. And I was like, can I put this at the back of the book? And they did. And sure enough, it comes out on 1111. So that's the paperback. And yeah, if you go and buy. If you go to kathyhall.com book and you buy the book, there's all these, like, bonuses like you get for free, like a meditation that you can download and some other fun goodies.

Well, and I, just for the audience's perspective, I was able to catch a glimpse of some of the bonuses knocked out of the park. Well, absolutely. It's like, it's like you're. It's funny. You're like you're giving all this stuff away that you nurse the church thousands of dollars of dollars for. So it's like they're. They're. They're. Yes, they're buying a book, but they're really not buying the book. They're actually getting a bunch of free stuff. Ironic. Which is kind of interesting. I'm gonna share one thing with you real fast. You just mentioned the word hospice. And first of all, sorry for lost your father. I was aware of that. But I know he left such a good mark and you guys had a beautiful way we did back together. So that was.

Thank you.

But case be known, Mother Teresa, right, Who used to be Sister Teresa, right.

It was one of the movies I actually watched. So I've watched it three times. It's called Letters.

Letter. It's not Letters of Teresa. Anyway, it's, it's. I've come back to it later. One of the things that I've discovered for the first time after I watched this movie, like three times. So Mother Teresa has a divine down from God, I want to go serve the poor. She leaves the convent, gets permission to do so, goes out and starts serving, serving Indian people. Never tries to convert anyone directly to her faith or anything of that nature. But she's serving the sick, the dying, the lonely. She. That turns into her having her own little. Her hospitals, if you will. For the sick, the dying, the lonely, which later becomes hospice.

One woman answered a call.

I never knew that.

That seemed like it was inconsequential. And she won a Nobel Peace Prize because she was the formal. She was the original creator of what we now know as hospice. That came from her. And I'm getting tingles right now. Literally.

I have to tell you something. But that. First of all, I never knew that. And what a blessing she continues to be. Holy smokes. That is so monumental. I'm so grateful that you just told me that. And I got to tell you this. So one of my rabbi friends told me this story that he was talking to a congregant of their. Of their community. And she's like, I gotta start doing more good. Because I know when I do good, I feel good. And he's like, okay, the next opportunity you see to do something good, just take it. So she's like, okay. So she's thinking, all right, am I going to see a homeless person? I'll give him a five, five, five dollar woman. So she's walking out of this building and next to the elevator is a sign that says, no one dies alone. Noda. And she goes, oh, God. I said I was going to do the next good thing I see. And it says, we're looking for volunteers to visit people who don't have family or friends in hospice who are dying. She's like, well, this is a big one. But she decides to. She said, I told God I was going to do the next thing I saw, she pulls the number off, calls up. You won't believe this story. She calls up and the woman says, okay, we'll schedule you. You know, this is really a big. It's a big kindness because you're going to be meeting with people who don't have family or friends to visit them. While they're dying. And it's a big. It's beautiful. She gets set up with this particular patient. She goes in, his eyes are closed. He's days away from death. She sits by his bed, holds his hand, you know, every once in a while, puts ice on his whatever. Every once in a while, he talks a little bit, but mostly not. She winds up. He dies. And she's been there every day for a couple weeks. She winds up sobbing. She's like, I felt so connected to this man who I never even met, never spoke to, just sitting here with him. And of course, because the love we get is a love we give away, right? She calls her mother and she says, mom, I did this thing for the last couple weeks, you know, it was just wild. This woman's, like, in her 40s. Her mom says, what was his name? And she says, well, what does it matter? You don't even, you know, why would you know him? She's like, what was his name? So she just tells them, her mom his name, and she says, you know, what's wild? She goes, you know what? You don't know? She goes, he's the doctor. He's the OB GYN who delivered you.

She goes. She goes, you know how awesome it is? She goes, we had a touch and go situation when you were born, and he was instrumental in saving your life.

Wow.

And she goes, God set it up so that you would be there for his exit. And I just lost it.

Yeah.

I was like. And she and I heard this story, and I was like, we think we know what it is to have a rich feeling or a rich moment. Nothing comes close to that.

But we got to stop rushing so we can experience them. I think, I think that's my battle cry with this. Even with the one part line, one part lamb stuff. It's. I want people to be able to walk in both energy simultaneously in a healthy. In a healthy way. Right. Because if not. And again, this is. I've spent my entire life being the person who was, like, rushing and getting stuff done and not literally that when they, when they say get stuff done with the other word. I was that guy for the longest time. And I'm now, like, now I'm like, get stillness done.

Yeah, I completely relate. 100. When's your birthday?

January 26th.

Okay. January 26th. No, I just completely.

I got a weird, I got a weird makeup in my, in my chart and stuff.

So I, I, I completely relate to the piece of stillness. And I just want you to know that in this moment, in time. Exactly where we are right now. You are so needed.

Thank you.

You are such an exceptional person. And your capacity to, To. To come from so much love and then speak so much wisdom is why people can hear you. It's that combination of love which is the real strength in the world and the wisdom. And I just have a feeling that God has placed a really big assignment for you to bring so many people back to the depth of their true path.

I received that. I. I know we gotta. I know I gotta get you off this call. I'll just share this one last thing. My woman, I've been seeing now for about seven months. It's probably. It's the healthiest relationship ever been as far as like both. Autonomy can be unity. She's very good at what she does. She doesn't need anything from me other than just like, great partnership. Right. I'm super. She can kick butt in business. She does all the things. But she said something recently.

Like, she keeps saying it, actually. So I've historically tried to serve the entrepreneur, right? Because that's, that's been my last 25 years. Right. Building businesses and scaling and all this kind of stuff. And she's like. Because she goes, I really, I really think you're supposed to really tap into the spiritual side of yourself. I really feel like that's what you need to be communicating to people. She goes, because you've, you have a very diverse background as far as the things that you've sought out and searched out. And you know, the Bible says that it's the glory of God to conceal a matter of man's. To search it out, mankind. And so I've been trying to like, toy with the idea of merging the business world with the, you know, with, with the spirit side, because again, I, I find myself with leaders constantly. And a lot of the folks that I serve are people even done more successful, been more successful financially than I have. And in almost every case, they, They're. They haven't found their path.

That's right.

They haven't found their path back kind of thing. So it's like, you know, so I bought this, this, this really nice home, Safe haven. It's just me in the house right now. You know, not for long.

Not for long. But it's, you know, it's pretty cool. I feel like we are in a season in history where people know they gotta go back to church. And I. It's a blessing for me to see that.

Yeah.

And those of us who have a really real connection to God, like We're being called up.

Yeah. I'm ready to rock and roll. Yeah, I know you are.

And I. I'm really blessed to know you.

Likewise. Well, sis, I know I got you off this call. Love you to death. We will stay in touch a hundred.

I can't wait till we're in the same physical space.

Yeah, I know, right? It kind of feels like you're sitting in the same room with me. For sure. I knew. I knew when we would get back on the call. We jam. So divine time.

Thank you.

I'll see you soon.

Hey, guys. I hope you enjoyed that amazing conversation. And if you want more just like that to help you level up your life and your business, you're not going to miss this next one. Check it out. The best thing to me about songwriting and performance is the one thing that I get to hold on to and give away at the same time. I realize that recognition doesn't have to happen on a stage. The song that I thought was only going to save my life.