How To FIND YOUR VOICE And Build A PERSONAL BRAND | AJ Vaden

You know, my good friend John Rulin says this all the time. You do not have to have millions of followers to make millions of dollars. And I would say, and millions of dollars, nor millions of dollars make you influential or successful.

Obviously you and Rory are close to my heart. You guys have made a massive difference in my personal brand, helped me get out there and serve more people. And, you know, and then I found out you guys did this, this massive, like industry wide study in trends and personal branding. And if you're cool with it, I want to break that all apart because I discovered even by going through the trends in personal branding that I was doing everything all wrong.

I don't know if that's completely accurate.

Well, that's how it felt. Right. You know, you know, struggling, you know, trying to get this thing going. Right. But I am curious, you know, what kind of, what kind of things did you find? I mean, you obviously hired a third party institute to go out and find this information out. So I break it down.

Yeah. So I would say it's been a really fascinating journey because it was about this time a year ago when, you know, I don't know, I don't know if it was because of the pandemic and everyone was like going stir crazy at home. But as I think most people realize, it's like this concept of personal branding has just kind of exploded over the last 18 to 24 months. And around this time last year, you know, we had so many people talking to us about, I want to build my personal brand. You know, 20, 21 is the year I want to really do this. And. But then as people started doing it, there was a lot of confusion around what is a personal brand and do I really need one or how do I use it, or what is the benefit for me. And so we started talking with our own clients in our brand builders group community. And it was really interesting to hear what people perceived as a personal brand. So, so we went out and we hired a third party research study company to go out and field this national survey. Right. And so we wanted to know, like across the United States. Now it's specific to the United States, it's not global. Maybe one day we'll go worldwide. Not yet. But we wanted to know when it comes to Americans, like, what is a personal brand? Who needs one, why do you need one and how do you use it? And that's kind of where we started. But I think it was really fascinating and because we have a very clear definition of what we consider a personal brand, but it was really quite different from what the majority of the population had to say in a really positive way. So at Brand Builders Group, we say that a personal brand is the digitization and the monetization of your reputation. So it's a formalized approach at building a very proactive, intentional reputation. And to some degree, every single person should be doing that. It does not matter what your profession is. You could be a stay at home mom, you could be a CEO of the household or a Fortune 100 company. This applies to you. We all have reputations. But then when we went out and we asked Americans the exact same question is like, what is a personal brand? I thought this was so fascinating is that the majority of Americans came back and they said to them that a personal brand is simply someone who is recognizable to them. And so we kind of took that back and you know, there's, there's over 100 different data points. I'm not going to go over all of those today, but we are going to give everyone a chance to download the study for free. So you get all the data points. But then, you know, it's like as we were like really analyzing and sitting with this data and working with our research company that we had hired to go through this, we go, you know, really it's surprising on the one hand, but then not so much on the other hand because I think the majority of people at our perception, I just assumed people naturally connected a influencer or an online celebrity or someone who is famous to a personal brand. Because that's what all of our clients were saying is like, I want to build my personal brand so I can grow my online influence. And what the majority of Americans are coming back and saying is, no, it could be the pastor of the local church or the local grocery store owner or the mayor, it doesn't matter. It's like whoever is recognizable to me, they have a personal brand. Yeah, I thought that was fascinating because I think that's really synonymous with. It's a personal brand is someone that you know like and trust. And that's not new, it's just a new way of doing it.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that surprised me was, and I didn't, I'm like you. When you, When I started thinking about personal brands, right. When I started down this journey, it was just because I wanted to, you know, take my knowledge and experience and position it to serve other people. Right. And a lot of that, you know, I'm obviously fortunate enough to be part of the brand builder community and be around the Brand builders, the fellow brand builders. And, you know, everybody's got a mission, they got a message. Everybody's trying to, you know, do their thing, and they're doing it well with excellence. But one of the things that surprised me about the study was learning that even going all the way down to the attorney you use or the doctor you use or the dentist you use, like, the people were more apt to buy from somebody who actually has a personal brand.

Yeah. This part was one of the parts that was really mind blowing because again, our assumptions are that most people would say that it was important for a speaker, an author, a podcaster, a coach, a consultant, a trainer. Like, that's kind of like the genre of, like, here's what our assumptions were. And, well, we couldn't have been more wrong. That was like, halfway towards the bottom half of the list. And most people said, in fact, the top four positions that Americans said that it was really important to them for their doctor, their lawyer, their employer, and their financial services provider to have an established personal brand.

Yeah.

And it's like, that wasn't even on our radar.

It wasn't on mine. And, you know, and I'm somebody who obviously is building a personal brand on the thought leadership side to help people. I had never thought about it as the CEO and the creator and the founder of these other businesses, I'd never thought about it.

Yeah. And so, again, it's like we've spent literally the last six months just sitting and analyzing and working through this data. And here's one of the big kind of standout, aha moments that we came away with is the more that the profession, the more that it requires trust, the larger and more established the personal brand must become. So the higher the level of trust that is required, the more established personal brand you must have. And a huge part of that is, you know, it's like, again, and like, initial reactions were, oh, did not see that coming. Then when you break it down and you really sit with anything about it, it's like, this is about trust. And it's like, I better trust my doctor, My life is in their hands, and I better trust my employer, my livelihood is in their hands, and I better trust my lawyer. My freedom is in their hands, and I better trust my financial services provider, because, you know, my. My money, my resources, my investments are in their hands. So it's like my security is in their hands. And it was a really interesting thing to kind of sit back and really think about this. This concept of a personal brand, that is reputation, is really synonymous with trust. And that was the underlying current. And every single one of these data points is that trust is the new form of currency. It's like. And what we found is like, you do not have to meet someone anymore for them to decide whether or not they trust you.

Yeah.

This is no longer about, I know you and I've had conversations with you. I know your heart, I know who you are. That ain't how it works anymore. It's. It's like, I'm going to go to your website, I'm going to listen to your podcast, I'm going to check out your social media feed. I'm going to see what sort of value and content you're providing, and I will decide from that whether or not I trust you. I don't have to know you anymore to decide whether or not I trust you. And so when it comes to your doctors and your employers and, you know, financial services and just all these professions that were at the top of the list, I think a huge thing that we came away with is that Americans today are saying, you better provide value to me before I decide to spend my money with you.

Yeah, one of the other crazy. I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, I was going to say. And that is the huge part that I think is uniquely different. It's like, I want things from you before I'm willing to give you my money.

Yeah, no, it's so good. And you know, the crazy part was that one of the things that I took away, again, this, this transient personal brand study is just unbelievable. It's mind blowing, the stuff that's in there. But one of the things that really shocked me was basically the younger you get, generation wise, the more important it becomes because they're already following TikTok and Instagram and stuff on a regular basis. And it blew my mind, if you think about it, they are the consumers, if you will, for the next five, 10, 20, 30, 40 years.

Yeah.

So now's the time.

Now is definitely the time. And I'll tell you too, this was something that was surprising to us because we naturally assumed that Gen Z was, which for the sake of this study, is kind of like that emerging generation 18 to 26. We just assumed it's like Gen Z was going to be all up over this. It was going to be most important to them. And it was second. But we were really shocked that older millennials, age 36 to 44, were the number one segment of all generations that said having an established personal brand was most important to them. And it was above and beyond. In every single data point of like literally almost every single data point, it was older millennials, not younger millennials, but age 36 to 44. And here's the thing that's huge about that is that's the majority of the buying power in the United States right now. That's the majority of consumer spend is in that age category. And they're the ones going, it is most important for me that who I buy from are people that I know like and trust me, who I align with and who I can get to know without knowing them. That's who I'm going to spend my money with.

Now, do you find that, I mean, and I'm asking this maybe more of an opinion based question, or it could be research based, but do you think that what's driving that is that particular generation that is. I'm in that generation. Barely. Barely. Barely. I'll claim it though, that we are just a very marketed two like generation, therefore we're more apprehensive until we've actually understood the ins and outs.

You know, this is a really fascinating question because I've gotten asked this question in a lot of different areas. And here's what I would say. I think it's two different things. I think it's a stage of life thing where we are, we have more money to spend typically at this stage of life than we did previously. Typically. I think a part of it is a stage of life thing of going. It's like, and the older you get, it's like you have more connections, you have more influence, you have more money. So it's a stage of life, of, hey, I'm looking for something specific. I've had enough trial and error to know what I don't want. So I know what I do want. And I'm going to go out and I'm going to find it and I'm going to do that through friends of friends and friends of friends. But then also I think it's a, you know, we're at the verge of that generation where it's, we weren't a generation raised. And social media and technology, I'm a millennial, you know, and Facebook came out my senior year of college, not high school college. Right. So that's in theory, not that long ago, truly. And so it's like we weren't raised in that, but it's been a, it's been a component of our life that we've acclimated to. So we've learned to use it for certain things versus a generation that was raised in it that it's second nature to them. It's really uniquely different. And one of the things that I think has been quite interesting in all of this is going well. Why is it then these older millennials are so prone to consider that to be the most important? And so I'm going to actually steal a data point from another study that I love, and this was done by Social Chorus, and it says this was a huge research study they did earlier this year in 2021, and it says that 95%. 95% of millennials say that their most trusted and credible source of product information is their friends.

Yeah.

Yeah. I do not know if that is fascinating or terrifying, because what we're saying.

Depends on the kind of things you have.

But, you know, it's like, I think about that and in general, like, when I first saw that, I thought, that's amazing. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, if that's accurate, we're in really big trouble. And then I sat with it some more and I went, well, actually, no, it's like, I would much rather reach out to my group of entrepreneur if I truly, if I really need something for my business, I reach out to my group of entrepreneur friends and I'm like, who did you use for hr? Where are you getting your health insurance from? Like, that's who I'm reaching out to. I am not going to Google. Yeah, I am not. I'm not doing that. I'm reaching out to my friends of going, hair, have you used? And if I need a really good hairdresser, I'm going to go to my friend who has the best hair, and I'm going, who do you go to? Like, tell me where you're getting that. And so then I said, well, that's absolutely true. And it can't just be true for millennials. I mean, who isn't doing that? And I think that is, like, this generation is that we're using personal branding as a way of learning about things in a way that we haven't done before. And I think the biggest thing is there's been a shift in trust in the marketplace, probably really over the last 10 years, but hyper expedited over the last five years of what this study says is that people are 74% more likely to trust you if you have an established personal brand, and they're more likely to buy from you if you have an established personal brand instead of being an employee at a large company.

Yeah.

And I think the trend here is that we Trust people, not companies. Yeah, right. Just like we buy from people, we don't buy from companies. We work for people. We don't work for companies. And we leave people. We don't leave companies.

That's true. That's true. It's crazy. I was just thinking to myself as early as yesterday, I've got a good friend in the thought leadership business, right? He's very, very, very well respected and admired in the business community, et cetera, in the thought leadership space. Speaker, author, New York Times bestseller, all that kind of stuff. And we're very fortunate that this show is beginning to get some notability and things of that nature. It's growing rapidly, and I had probably seven solicitations this week alone. Just people that have cold calling me, kind of cold emailing me. I'm like, hey, how'd you get my email? No offense. How'd you get it? Like, kind of thing. And, you know, so I shoot them over to the guy that handles some of my podcast stuff. But, you know, he emails me. One email says, hey, meet so and so. I think they're amazing. Gives me their bio and their link. I clicked on the link. We've already booked the podcast. And I think that goes to show that how important relationships are. I am curious to know with the trends of personal brand study, how much of it is personal brand versus corporate brand? Because, you know, as a business owner of multiple businesses, I'm always trying to raise the company brand, not necessarily me. And that's where I got caught. I'm curious to know what the study said there.

Yeah, it would say, build your personal brand and let your personal brand be the advocate for the company's brand. And one of the things that we say even before the study, this is one of the few points that we were right on when it came to this study, is that we just really believe. It's like, you know, and I think about.

Books or interviews or media, it's like, you would never say, hey, I want to interview Amazon. Yeah, he wouldn't say that. He would say, I want to interview Jeff Bezos or I want to interview Elon Musk. You would not say, I want to interview Tesla, because Tesla is an entity. It's not a human being. Right? We don't read books by companies. We read books by people. And I think there's. That's the element is. And we have been guilty of this ourselves as we spend all our time building this profile of our company. And we forget at the end of the day, people don't follow Companies, people follow people. People want to know the faces behind this company. And I think the huge thing, again, it goes back to trust. It's like you cannot trust someone you don't know. And you do not know a company. You know the people within the company. And a huge message that we have in this study is that CEOs, executives, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, it doesn't matter who you are influencers. You have to step out from behind your product or your service or your company. And you have to allow people to get to know you. You have to let people know who you are just as much as telling them what you do. It's like people love the human connection. And that is a personal brand. This is not a company brand. We do not build companies brands. We don't touch it. We don't want to. That's not our forte. But it's like how do you help someone get to know who you are and what you believe? Because what we found in our study is that 67% of all Americans said they are, they would be willing to spend more money with a company when the founder is someone that they know. Like trust and follow. Yeah, but you can, I cannot know you or follow you or like you or trust you if I cannot learn about you. So I have to be able to see you in order to know you and learn from you. And that. And I, we. I'll be the first to say this is not about building social media. Building your personal brand is not about becoming insta famous. That's not it. Building your personal brand is about being clear on what problem you solve, who do you solve it for, what is your unique way of solving it? And then what business helps people solve it? That is what it is. And you could do that by going out and doing public seminars or using it for recruiting. Maybe you use social media, that's an accelerator. But it's definitely not a prerequisite for going. I have to get people to know who I am. So they want to know what my company does.

Yeah, yeah, I am going to. I have a, maybe a bit of a curveball question. So not getting into politics directly, but you know, in the politics, in the political realm, a lot of times when they start marketing campaigns around various political clients, regardless of what you believe. Right. There's always this element of this person's does some really good stuff and they, and you find out, oh, maybe they had some really bad stuff in the background. Do you. This is, again, this is subjective. Do you feel like that maybe some people would Be hesitant to start a personal brand because of maybe mistakes they've made in their past versus what they're trying to do now.

Definitely. And I'm going to steal this from someone else. I don't remember it was. And I'm a big believer of this. There are no mistakes. There's only learning.

Yeah.

And I think that has a lot to do with people owning the things that have made them who they are. And it's like, for me, for example, it's like, there have been plenty of things in my past that I'm like, that was a horrendous, quote, unquote mistake. And I'm so glad it happened because it has taught me and shaped me and formed me. Like, one of the things I don't talk about so often is like, I've been fired. And a really immediate fashion for being very firm and going, this is what I believe. This is my opinion. And then I was. And I was. I was ousted really quickly. And I'm like, I can't be. I cannot have shame about being willing to stand up for what I believe in, even if I'm the only one. And that's okay. But that's probably not something I shot from the rooftops. Right. Because there's. There's some embarrassment component with that. And I think we all have those. People suffer from addictions, but it's from that addiction that they can help other people who have addictions. People have gone through divorce. They may be. They have shame about that. And it's like, no, you're going to be able to help someone else. And I think, for the most part, the people who are not, who maybe don't want to build a personal brand because they don't want their past to surface again is what they really have to understand is, you know, this is something we say at our company all the time, is that you are most always positioned to best serve the person that you once were, not the person you are today, but the person you once were. And that is the person who made mistakes and who had failures, because we all do. That is the way you help people.

Yeah. I mean, that's where the compassion and empathy come from. Right. Though. I mean, I was just thinking about if. If the purpose behind a personal brand is to basically expedite trust or build trust. It's been my experience that the more I share about my mistakes, the quicker trust is built, the more I try to avoid my mistakes, the quicker trust is destroyed. Is that what you guys found as well?

Absolutely. I think the biggest Thing is that people want authenticity.

Yeah.

And they want honesty. Right. And the honest, authentic truth is we all mess up.

Yeah.

Like all of us probably on the daily. Right. We all mess up. We all do things. We're like, oh, probably shouldn't have said that. Oops, shouldn't have done that. Right. And it's like the moment.

I've had a few of those moments.

I'm having five today. So it's like we. Here's what I would say is that what I. Here's what I would find is like, if you think you don't want to do it because you don't want your past to come out, it's like your past is already out.

Yeah.

Right. It's just, do you want to be the one who tells the story or do you want someone else to.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you think about it, all the times I can think of, my mind goes back to the political realm. From time to time, anytime I've seen a leader, public leader, stand up and admit that they made a mistake, oftentimes the public is very quick to forgive. The moment they hold on to a lie or they're trying to, you know, hide something, it very quickly expedites or elevates the community or public's frustration. So I can see how that. You're powerful. I am curious since trust is such an important part of having a personal brand. Right. And so much of having a personal brand is about being clear. I can say from personal experience. 5. I spent what, almost five, almost six years just trying to grind it out, trying to figure it out. And it wasn't until I found Brown Builders Group and got connected with you guys that I got clear and really began to elevate what we are doing. And I think the proof is in the pudding with the growth that's happened that the BBG process works. But I am curious.

In the clarity side of things. How do we go from clarity to trust? Because I feel like a lot of folks are like, well, if I build a personal brand, it's going to take me a decade or 20 years. Right. So how do. How do we expedite that process?

Yeah. So great question. And for us, I think there's three things that I would say is, one is that the more focused, the more niche, the more specific, the better. I find one of the biggest problems that a lot of our clients or even prospects, like, you know, people who were checking us out, that we talk to them, that we learn, is like, they want to do all the things at the same Time. That don't make any sense. Right. It's like, okay, and the next year, I need to write a book. I need to get my speaker press kit done. I need a website, I need a course, and, oh, I need to do this challenge funnel. And we're like, why? Why do you need to do that? And, well, that's what everyone's doing. Why do you need to do that? And just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Yeah.

And I think the biggest challenge is the reason that people don't have expedited growth in their personal brands is they try to do all the things.

Yeah.

They try to do everything at once, and they do nothing exceptionally well. And so one of the things we really try to do is we try to harness in, like, what is the short term and the long term. So what are we going to do that you have to do in order for you to do what you want to do later? And a lot of times people ignore the obvious, and that is how you. The second thing I would say is what people most ignore and the obvious is they forget the power of the offline personal brand. They think building a personal brand has got to have a podcast, got to have a huge Instagram account, got to build a YouTube show, gotta do all the things. And it's like, let's not forget how the world of sales actually happens. A lot of that is you need to talk to someone.

Yeah.

You need to ask for a referral. You need to go speak to a group of people, whether they pay you or not. There are some baby steps that we skip. And we think it all has to happen online. And then we're mad when we post something and it has 25 views. But in reality, if we were in a room with 25 people and we were speaking our truth to them, and they came up and they said thank you, they would say that was worth it. But yet we do it online and only 25 people see it, and we're disappointed and we think we failed. And it's like they forget the power of the offline human connection. And it's a huge thing. And it's like, no part of your personal brand is being with people. It doesn't matter where it is. That'd be the second thing. The third thing I would say is people have no idea what problem they solve. They really don't know what their business model is.

I'm thinking about this client who's had a very, very, very successful corporate career at Dell. He was in the C suite at Dell. For a very long time. And he left and he felt called to do what he's doing now. So I'll leave his name mentioned. And I was talking to him and it was so interesting because he's got this course and it's all about, you know, very, you know, kind of like high powered company, CEOs C suite, individuals who are suffering from burnout. He's got this course and it's already built. And he goes, I just can't figure out how to market it. I'm like, well, what's the point of the course? And we started talking and at the end of the day I'm like, how many people have you told about the course? Not how much ad spend, not how much have you marketed. How many people have you told about it? He goes, what do you mean? Like picked up the phone, sent an email and told. And he goes, I haven't done that. And it's like, okay, well if you want to sell this, we actually have to sell.

Yeah, right.

And I think people forget that this is a business and a business takes all different types. Right? It's not just about content creation, but we got to have a way to have a sales call. We actually have to have a process for asking for referrals. But this is a sale, this is a business. And that's what I think most people forget is that building a personal brand is. It's not just about creating some videos and putting them online. It is a business and it must be treated like a business. Which means it's going to take time and investment and effort. It does not magically happen overnight. It's a business, so it's got to be treated like one.

Yeah, it's interesting you say that. You know, obviously some of the most notable brand, personal brands that I know, a lot of mutual friends we now share, all of them look like they exploded over the last year and a half, two years, maybe three years. And then you go to talk to them like, yeah, man, I've been working on this since like 2001, 2002. You're like, dude, it's been 10 years. It's taken me 10 years to develop the community that I now have and the exposure that I now have and some of that stuff. It blows my mind. But they would also argue. The same way I would argue is like, I spent the first five or six years doing it wrong. Right? Not trying to figure out. My problem is not knowing that there's an actual, a technique and a practice and a strategy.

Which makes your business so Unique in that you actually have a framework and a strategy to actually take someone who has an aspirations to have a personal brand. Or in my case, someone who came in saying, I don't want to be a personal brand, I want the company to be a personal brand. You're like, no, you got to be the personal brand. Like, I don't want to be.

That kind of thing. So I am curious.

What is from, you know, from your perspective, what is an influential personal brand? Like, what makes one, like a good one versus someone who's not going to be, you know, all that successful at it?

Yeah. You know, here's what I would say that's really hard to define because I think to anyone it's what's the end goal of why you're doing this? Right? Is it to drive more leads to the business? Is it to use it for a recruiting avenue to grow your real estate practice? Is it to get to be more media worthy? Like, what is the goal of it? And I think an influential personal brand is, in my very siloed opinion is to me, it's the ability to influence one person. That is an influential personal brand. It's the ability to influence one person. You know, my good friend John Rulin says this all the time. You do not have to have millions of followers to make millions of dollars. And I would say, and millions of dollars nor millions of dollars make you influential or successful. And I think it's both of those things. Like, we've got some clients that we work with where it's like, this is nothing other than a passion project. This is like, I feel called to help people relieve stress. Like, I have been the victim of that. I want and I don't care if I ever make money at it. You know, they, this is a second career and they're retired and it's not about that anymore. This is their personal form of ministry.

Yeah.

And then we've got other clients who it's like, now we're going to eight figures. Come hell or high water, we're going there. So it's everywhere in between. But here's one of the things that I would say that I thought was really interesting that we pulled out of our study as we asked what are the most important things to people when they are deciding whom to hire from? Right. So company, personal brand doesn't matter, but what are the most important things? And again, it's where you're spending your time, money and resources to get the most bang for both your time and your money. And so we said, hey, Tell us, what are the top three? And there was a list of 20 different things. And it was, do you need to have a podcast? Right. Do you need to have a viral TED talk, a YouTube show, a large social media following, a social media following, lots of engagement, a self published book, a traditionally published book, New York Times bestselling book. Like, what are the things that are most important to you as a consumer when deciding whom to hire? Yeah, it was none of those things. None of them. And 62% of all Americans said the number one most important factor to them when deciding whom to hire was third party testimonials.

Wow.

Yeah. That is free. It is the cheapest, easiest, fastest thing you can do right now to grow your business is to call your clients and ask them to share their experience of what it's like to work with you, to buy from you, and for you to use that in your marketing. And then it's like we kind of got mad about it for a minute. Cause we're like, wait, you're telling me that you would take a third party testimonial over a bestselling podcast series and New York Times bestselling book? And then we looked at the data and this was fascinating. And you to Americans, they said you could have a blog, a traditionally published book, a self published book, or a New York Times bestselling book. And they all hold the same weight of credibility. And when deciding whom to hire, a pause right there. Because it takes about 10 to 15 minutes to put a blog together. It'll take you about two to three years to put a book together.

Yeah.

And it's like, blog, New York Times bestselling book. I mean, you know, tomato, tomato, whatever. But the cheapest, fastest, easiest thing that we can do, that does not cost you any money. Right. This is not going to take you years to put together a book and try to get a publishing deal and spend tens of thousands of dollars trying to market it. It is not buying all the equipment and getting guests on your show. It's not getting none of it. It's send an email or get on a zoom call and get some testimonials and throw them up on your website. That's what I want to see.

Yeah.

And again, it goes back to trust. People want to know that other people say you are who you say you are and confirm that you do what you say you're going to do. And that means more to other people than a book or a podcast or a viral TED Talk. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's all good. I'm not saying that's not important because we teach that we do that. I'm sitting here on a podcast with you. Of course I believe in this and that. At the same time, they're going, know, what I really want is I want third party validation that you are who you say you are and you do what you say you're going to do. That's what I need. And again, going back to do we spend our time and our efforts in the wrong places because we look around and we're affected by the comparison syndrome. Right. And one of the things that we try to talk about all the time with our clients is.

Don'T Compare your step one to someone else's step 1000.

Yeah.

Because we're all at different phases of the journey. And you know, when you start to compare, it diminishes the power of what you're doing. It diminishes the power of your own story. And so it's like, what is an influential personal brand? It's like it's whatever you want it to be. But to me, it's the ability to influence one person. And then it's, it's having clarity of knowing, what do other people want from me? Like, what can I give to other people and where should I spend my time, money and resources? And according to our study, luckily, it does not cost a lot of money to get what people really want, which is they want to hear from other people who've actually worked with you.

Yeah. And it's not all that hard to pick up an email or pick up a phone and, or an email and shoot that across. It's crazy. And it's crazy and it's inspiring all the same time. Because, you know, we went, we're moving from a, a written testimonial scenario in our platforms to all video. Right. So people can actually watch the facial expressions, actually look and see, like, do they have the twinkle in their eye kind of thing or did they really have that experience?

And I think, I think we're moving that way as a group and as a culture because I do think that we've kind of grown up in the last couple years in the land of guru. And unfortunately gurus tend to fall from grace. Right. You find out that they're not, um, kind of what they've all said to be, um. And that's kind of elevated the guide scenario, which is, I know what you guys partner with more than anything else. It's interesting to me that Brand Builders group as a, as a As a company could partner with the most elite thought leaders. In fact, you guys do in many respects. But you also partner with people who are very early in the journey, which I've been the benefit of. Right. So I am curious to know, with all of that going on, is building a personal brand only for extroverts?

No, I would say my husband is a self proclaimed introvert. And he's also.

I don't believe you. He is.

You know, and it's, it's, you know, it's interesting because for years I'm like, how can you be an author and a speaker and on social media all the time and be an extrovert? And then he had this great conversation with me one day and he goes, babe, when I'm on stage, a stage, I don't talk to anybody. It's me. And by myself, he goes, when I write, it's just me. And on social media, it's me in a video. What part of this do you not think I'm an introvert? And then I was like, you're right, that's nothing to do with introvert or extrovert. Because really, it's like he would much prefer to be holed up in his little dungeon down in the basement making videos all day than actually at a networking meeting. Or I probably would much prefer to be out at a networking meeting because I thrive off of that. And he goes, that drains me. I just. He's a content producer. He's got a message. And this is his conduit of getting it out there is writing and speaking. And so I would say no. It's like building a personal brand is for anyone who feels like you have a message that has the power to impact someone else.

Yeah.

Because you do not have to, in Rory's defense, actually engage with humans to do that. You don't. You don't.

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Well, I mean, devil's advocate, let's say I've got a burning desire in my heart to share a message or share something. I have no idea where to start. I've never spoken before in my life. I hate social media. I don't like to be involved in social media. I do have a budding business or I'm a C suite professional over here. I've got years of experience. I've walked out things that other people would run away from. Where do I start? Where do I start? If that's me.

Yeah. Honestly, that is why Brand Builders Group exists. It's for that individual. It really is. But I would say for the person who's like, I don't love social media, and I don't know about the speaking. I don't want to be on stage where there's a will, there's a way for anything. And I would always tell people, start with doing interviews. Ask your team to interview you. Ask your spouse to interview you. Hire a coach to interview you. You could hire us. We're happy to take your money, But I have tons of friends who are so skilled and talented. But they're not speakers, but they're panelists. Right. They get on interviews, and that's how their content comes out. We have tons of people who have so much to say, and as soon as you hit, you know, hit record and that red light goes on, it's like, so it's like, we even do interview formats with our clients. It's like, forget the cameras on, and let's just have a conversation. And then it's like this brilliance, just wisdom just flows out because the pressure goes away. And I think a lot of that is figuring out, like, where is your zone of genius? Right. Maybe it's in the written word. Maybe it's an interview style. Maybe it's in video. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's actually through having someone else tell your story. Right. I. One of our. One of our team members is also our prior literary agent, and she shared a statistic the other day that blew my mind, you know, and her name is Nina, but she has sold millions and millions and millions of dollars of book advances over the years. And she goes, yeah. 90% of all the authors I work with had a ghostwriter.

Yeah.

And I was like, I'm sorry, what? What do you mean? And she goes, yeah, 90% of the books that I sell today come with a ghostwriter because they know that their zone of genius is not the written word. And so there's nothing wrong with that. Use someone who's great at the written word to translate the gift, the message that you have to share. There's nothing wrong with that. And, you know, I had a prejudice about, well, we can't have a ghostwriter. That'd be inauthentic. And she'd go, no, no. Right. It'd be inauthentic for you not to share your truth and let somebody else translate it to a solid written word.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, my gosh. I've had such a mental block about that for so long, and I just needed someone else to speak some truth into my life about it. And so where there is a will, there's a way. It doesn't matter what way it comes in.

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm, personally, I benefit from all kinds of writing help as an ADHD dyslexic guy, because if you read my book without it being edited, we'd be in big trouble. I think my first one, I literally wrote my very first book on a trip, not an elliptical machine. And it was all one giant run run on long sentence. And A.J. you've read some of my emails. They can get pretty creative. So. So much so that I had to put in my signature line, creative compliments of dyslexia.

That's so funny.

Yeah. But I know we're basically out of time, but I got one one final question. As we're. We're wrapping up personal branding and the importance of it, obviously everybody's got to get the study because it'll blow their mind, the details that are in there. I am curious.

On a, on a flip side, how important is it for me knowing that our digital footprint can pretty much last forever nowadays? How is it important for me to go out to the marketplace and always operate in a segment of integrity? Well, that can. Could that potentially hurt my business brand?

No. Here's what I would say to that. If you become authentically you, you will most definitely lose some customers and simultaneously you'll gain a whole bunch more. And I think the more that you can get really clear on who is the audience that I want to serve, it will become very clear that you have a lot of clients and prospects and maybe even team members that are not a fit for you. But simultaneously, it's going to become so clear who is.

Yeah.

And that's okay. It's like, you know, it's, you know, we have this debate all the time in our household. My husband and I are business partners, as you know, but for everyone listening and it's like, how much do we want to share about the things that we personally believe in at the risk of the business? And our stance always comes back. We cannot stand here and teach the patter personal brand and not share ours.

Yeah.

Well, does that mean that we will lose some? It sure does. Does that mean that some people aren't going to like. It sure does. But there's a way to be respectful on both sides. And we go, we get that. We respect that and we also understand that you're not a client for us and we're not the company for you. And then we've also gotten really clear on who is which enables us to be more targeted with our marketing, to be more unique in our messaging. Because at every juncture we're getting more clear and more clear on who is the target audience that is the ideal fit for us. And just in the United States alone, there are 350 million Americans. There is enough fish in the sea. Right. It is a scarcity mindset to think that way. It is like, well, what if we lose 20 clients? What if we gain 2,000? So I think a lot of it comes to it's like, how much are you willing to risk to stand up for who you are and what you believe in? And I think at the end of the day, that's the risk for us all. Do we have enough courage to stand up for what we believe in?

Yeah. So the moral of the story is be authentically you, but be clear about it.

Be really clear about it. Be really clear about it. You know, in some regards, the more polarizing, the better. And I say that with a caveat of with respectfulness. Right, with respectfulness. But be as polarizing as possible with a caveat of with respectfulness.

Well, A.J. i've sure enjoyed having you on the show. We're definitely going to have you back for sure. You guys are doing amazing work. You're one of the best CEOs I know. So I'm kind of glad that the other company didn't work out because I never would have gotten the benefit of what you and Roy bring to the table. So that's fine. It worked out.

It always works out. It always works out.

That being said, I'm actually going to go ahead and put links in the show notes specifically for the trends and personal brands. Yeah.

And I have the link I can share. If you want to go and get the trends and personal branding full PDF, go to Stephen.FreeBrand Study.com so Stephen.FreeBrand Study.com Rock on.

And that's with the PH guys. I'm a PH kind of guy. Well, look, I've enjoyed having you. I can't wait to have you on again. All the best. Your, your work's amazing and thanks for bringing the helping us mission driven messengers get to the marketplace.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me on. I so appreciate it.

All right, we'll see you again. Take care. If you love that interview, go ahead and check out this next one right here. Because of the experience of feeling super stuck at certain points in my life and living inside of funks in certain point in my life, identify now looking backwards that those periods of being down were connected to times when I was not growing.