NBA Performance Expert On Coaching Kevin Durant, Steph Curry and Kobe Bryant | Alan Stein Jr.

Want to be better in any area of your life? First, get crystal clear on the basics, and then work towards mastery of those during the unseen hours. When it comes to behaviors, we need to figure out what is going to help us get where it is that we're trying to go and to become the person that we're trying to become. And sometimes there'll be a tremendous amount of overlap amongst others, sometimes there won't be.

There's so much conversation around becoming elite this or elite that or elite this. I actually feel like in some cases in the entrepreneurial world, it's almost thrown around. But it seems like one of the things that I resonate with you on is it seems like those that really, truly become elite build their foundation on fundamentals.

Oh, absolutely. And I learned that firsthand through the game of basketball, both as a player and as a performance coach. But since I made the leap over to the corporate speaking space five years ago, I'm noticing that that's a principle that high performers in every area of life, they utilize. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're talking about someone in acting or a musician, just someone that wants to be a leader in the community, an entrepreneur, and anything in between. They have a very strong respect and appreciation for the fundamentals and for the basics, and they realize that that's basically the foundation to which everything else they do is built.

Yeah, well, it seems to me that it's almost polar opposite to our culture today, because our culture's like a secret this and I hack that and ninja your way to this, and. But yet again, the people that do the most are people that do the most reps.

Absolutely. I love that you use the word reps, because I was actually going to tie it into kind of a fitness analogy. I mean, even. Even achieving a pretty high level of physical fitness comes down to just some very basic tenets. You know, eat clean, move your body consistently, get quality sleep, and hydrate. I mean, for the most part, if you do those four things consistently, it doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up on the COVID of men's or women's health, or you might not be an Olympic athlete, but you'll improve your vitality and your longevity and just by doing those four things. And that's the foundation. Now, once you've created that foundation, then obviously you can graduate to some more advanced techniques. You know, you can try some different things with your diet and maybe even some appropriate supplementation. You can try some more advanced workouts and different regimens there. But generally, Speaking. Yeah, those are the basics. And I'm a huge believer that in any area of life that you're looking to excel, the very first step is getting crystal clear on what those fundamentals are. You know, do you want to be a better spouse? Well, figure out what are the fundamentals to having a nurturing and loving relationship, and stick to those. You know, you want to be better playing the piano? Same thing. Want to be better in any area of your life. First get crystal clear on the basics, and then work towards mastery of those during the unseen hours.

Yeah, you know, I love that. I love that so much. Because, you know, another thing that dawned on me is when it comes to diligence, right, it's one of the most underrated, like, skill sets. But yet, if you're going to develop wisely, you almost have to have a level of diligence. And everybody that I'm aware of pursues with a certain level of intensity or a certain level of standard making, if you will, to actually make that a reality. What role has diligence played in what you've learned from elite performers, how you've coached elite performers, and so on?

Well, I love the word diligence. I view. And one of the things I've always been fascinated by language is every word in the English language, which is the only language I speak, carries an emotional connotation with it. You know, you and I could hear the exact same word, and we could have very different feelings about that word. And I've always loved the word diligence. To me, I use it very synonymous, anonymously, with discipline. I kind of look at those as being two sides of the same coin and have always been a huge believer that whether you say diligence or discipline, that that's the key to freedom, that's the key to fulfillment, to happiness. It's certainly the key to high performance. And what I've always been fascinated by, whether again, diligence or discipline, is some people are under the misconception that it's predetermined. The same way, kind of our height and our eye color is predetermined, you know, because I hear people say things like, well, I'm not disciplined. And I let them know that's just a story you're telling yourself. Like, I'm not arguing that maybe in the past you haven't made very many discipline decisions. So therefore, you don't view yourself or identify as being someone that's disciplined. But unlike your height or your eye color, you can change that with the very next decision that you have to make, you know, whether it's what am I going to eat for lunch or who am I going to follow on Instagram. In that moment, you can choose the more disciplined route. And when you do that, you should celebrate that small win and then start to stack those and then you'll actually swing the pendulum in the other direction. You'll start to consistently make more disciplined decisions and then you'll start to view yourself as being a disciplined person. And you know, for me, I take a lot of pride in my own self discipline and that stems from when I was in middle school. The coach said something to me that was really impactful. He said that, Alan, if you'll learn to discipline yourself, then others won't need to discipline you. And that just resonated really strongly with me. I mean, I, you know, as a middle schooler, I viewed it kind of as all right, if I do what I'm supposed to, I guess I won't get in trouble. And you know, my definition of that has certainly evolved. That was how I looked at it was like, okay, I'll do what I'm supposed to do and I'll do it to the best of my ability and people will leave me alone. And I kind of like that approach. So yeah, I'm a huge fan of discipline, so. And actually think it's, it's heavily undervalued and under indexed in our society. You know, piggybacking on what you said earlier about, you know, kind of how social media can kind of propagate some of these things. I think motivation is over indexed and over glorified absolutely is under, you know, under indexed and, and it's not. There's a certain amount of motivation that I do believe is, is needed. It's a prerequisite and it's helpful. But discipline is where the real key is. And I know for myself, you know, like for example, I'm training for an ultra endurance event coming up at the end of August and I just got in a good six mile run prior to our call and I need to go out and get another six mile run after our call. Cause I'm really trying to increase my weekly mileage. And I'll tell you right now on this podcast, I have zero motivation to go back outside and run another six miles. I mean, zero. If I could think of a legitimate reason on why I don't need to go run, I would use it. But my discipline is going to kick in and I'm going to allow my actions to then create my mood and My perspective instead of waiting for the other way around.

Well, the friend side of me wants to just say, hey, we'll just go really long on the podcast to get you out of it. But then the accountability side of me says, I can't do that. That takes him off his goal.

I love it. You're a good man. That's funny.

Well, your new book, man, Raise the Game, man, so I'm digging it. There's this really cool undertone of all the principles and all the strategies. It's totally a highlighter book. Totally worth read. Like you need a notepad while you're going through it, for sure. But one of the things that I think is this undercurrent that I think is just powerful because it was something I struggled with super early on, you know, when I was originally homeless and everything else, and kind of getting where I'm at today. Is this the sense of learning how to change your actual behavior mechanism, the things that go into changing behavior patterns, you know? So my question is that maybe a little bit different. I'm curious to know why we pick up behavior patterns from other people rather than creating ones within ourselves.

Usually stems from lack of awareness. I'm a huge believer that awareness is the foundation to every single thing that we're looking to improve in our life. I mean, you'll never improve something that you're unaware of. You're never going to get better at something that you're oblivious to. So the very first thing we have to do is be able to acknowledge, all right, first of all, how am I complicit in the behaviors that I don't want? You know, if I'm saying right now I'm kind of stagnating in my life, I don't really like where I am. You know, my relationships are very tepid professionally. My work just doesn't have me jazzed up. You know, once I reach that level of awareness, I have to ask myself, what am I doing to contribute to those things? You know, it's very easy to finger point, especially in a relationship, and being able to say, well, if the other person would just do this or say this, then things would be better. And I only know that from firsthand experience, because sadly, that was how I viewed a lot of my relationships, intimate and otherwise, a decade ago. And it was always about what the other person was or wasn't doing. Until I started adopting a mindset of extreme ownership and saying, okay, I'm not responsible for what they are doing or not doing. I'm only responsible for what's on my side of the fence. And I'm absolutely contributing to this, you know, the erosion of this relationship. And you could say the same thing vocationally. You have to ask yourself, what are you doing? And then once you have that level of awareness, you know, that's a massive first step. I mean, you should be incredibly grateful that you've been able to do that.

And.

And sometimes that awareness comes from someone else.

Somebody that oftentimes comes from someone else. Right?

Absolutely. And can help you see those blind spots. And, you know, so I intentionally try to insulate myself with people that help me see my blind spots, that can tell me when I'm stagnating, when I'm not giving my best effort or maybe not showing up as my best self. And then once you have that level of awareness, then you can go through some certain steps to start to course correct and change some of those behaviors. Lots of times, I think we adopt the behaviors of somebody that we're trying to emulate.

Yeah.

But oftentimes these are almost superficial relationships where I see somebody on social media like. Like our mutual friend Ed Mylett.

Yeah.

I mean, now, you and I both know Ed is about as good of a human being as you could ever come across.

Absolutely.

But certainly for someone that doesn't have the pleasure of knowing him from afar. I mean, he has all the external trappings of someone that is successful. You know, I mean, he's got the wealth. He's got, you know, the financial freedom. He's got great. I mean, he's got. He's got it all. So a mistake that some people would make would be to just try to, you know, blindly adopt everything that he says or everything that he does. And some of those things may not be the right fit for everybody. They work really well for Ed, and he's brilliant at them. And he's also one of the most sincere and generous people that I've ever met and has such a heart of gold that he's always looking to help. But I think even he would tell you that. That, yes, there's some standards that he lives by, and he has some behaviors and best practices that are probably rather universal that would do most of us some good to adopt. But at the same time, you know, we can't adopt everything that everybody else does. It's kind of like with morning routines, you know, people tend to glorify a morning routine as if there's one golden routine. And if everyone follows this, their life would automatically get better. And it's. There's Too much nuance involved. I'm not arguing that some of the principles behind that morning routine would probably serve most people well, but you can't just follow it. You know, an even better example using, using Ed. I mean, Ed, we know Ed is pretty stacked and put together. I mean, I can promise you if I followed Ed Mylett's workout routine to a T rep by rep, I'm still never going to be built like Ed Mylett. Like, we have different genetics, you know, we have different body types. We have, you know, so it's just to, to learn from folks. It's important to, to try and emulate certain qualities. Like I would absolutely recommend that anybody try to emulate Ed's. Ed's perspective on life, his generosity, you know, humility. Absolutely. Humility. He's one of the best listeners that I've ever been around. There are some certain general traits that would be great for all of us to emulate. And I, and I know I try to emulate those things from him because I revere and respect him so much. But to try to follow every single thing that he does on a daily basis and try to shoehorn that into my life may not be the best fit. So when it comes to behaviors, we need to figure out what is going to help us get where it is that we are trying to go and to become the person that we are trying to become. And sometimes there will be a tremendous amount of overlap amongst others, sometimes there won't be. Yeah.

You know, it's funny, I was just thinking to myself a little bit about the fact that.

In its simplest form, if you're not happy with the result that you have, there's a behavior, an action, a thought. There's something that's driving that. And then it comes down to radical honesty, like being super honest, at least with myself. Dude, I had this moment, I was looking up in the mirror, a public restroom, trying to figure crap out. And I was like, dude, what the hell are you doing? What are you like, you're 20 something years old, you have your, there's plenty of like, what are you doing? And that's when those, those self awareness things you were talking about come into play. Well, you know what? I have a. I have a tendency to get involved in toxic relationships. You know what? I feel like I'm always chasing my self worth. You know what? I feel like I'm always doing this, that or the other thing. Self sabotaging and a whole host of other things that I was dealing with.

One thing for me though, that I think was a catalyst in creating or getting around blame, shame, condemnation. That whole, that whole scenario was an element of surrender. Do you find that surrender plays an active role in essentially becoming an elite?

Yeah. And similar, again, I'm loving the word play. I love the word surrender. I view, and it's okay if others view this differently. I view the word surrender and acceptance once again as almost being synonymous. Very similar to diligence and discipline.

They both require release.

Yes, absolutely. Learning to surrender to what is one of the things that stresses, you know, that stresses people out are not the events and the circumstances and what people say and do. It's the resistance to those things. So in order to have some flow and some fluidity and to lower your stress level is to learn how to accept what is and surrender to what is. Now this, this doesn't mean that you like it. It doesn't mean that it's your preference. Doesn't even mean you condone it. It simply means that whatever just happened, just happened. And there's nothing that I can do about the fact that it happened. What I can do is alter my perspective of what happened and alter. Yeah, and stop resisting what happened. And I think, yeah, surrender and acceptance is almost kind of on the tail of self awareness to being able to start to unpack and change these things. And along those lines, you know, because I've looked in the mirror and had similar conversations with myself that you've had with yourself, is also learning to give ourselves some grace and give ourselves some compassion. You know, I know a lot of people that listen to your show are hard drivers and they're very determined and those are wonderful qualities. But it's been my experience that many times hard drivers and determined people can be so much more critical of themselves.

Absolutely.

And they are, say, critical of a loved one. And you know, you mentioned, and I love that you said, hey, part of you is thinking we could run this interview long so that I could get out of my six mile run on some level. That's a way of you showing me some compassion and a way of you trying to comfort. Because I basically said that going for another six mile run is going to be very uncomfortable. So as a friend, you were looking to offer compassion and I appreciate that wholeheartedly. We have to learn how to be able to do that with ourselves. You know, I'm hoping that this is the start of a friendship between you and I and if a year from now after we've developed a friendship, if you were to call me up and say, alan, man, I just had one of the toughest days I've ever had. I'm in a lousy mood. You know, this, this, and this just didn't go well. You know, it was just the perfect storm of things that didn't go well today. As your friend, I would never start piling on guilt and shame. I would never start being critical. I would never say, well, that's what you get, because here's how you've been acting and behaving. My first thing would be to offer you some compassion and comfort. And that doesn't mean that I won't be honest with you, and it doesn't mean that I won't hold you accountable. You know, those. And it doesn't mean I won't be honest. These things are incredibly important. But I would try to comfort you and I would let you know, hey, I know you had a rough day today, but tomorrow is going to be better. And I know that you are strong enough and have the type of grit and resilience to get through this and just know that this too shall pass. And that would be the approach that I would take with you. And I've just had to learn, and I'm still getting better at this, learning how to talk to myself. The same way that when I have kind of a rough day, that I don't beat myself up even further or get more critical, I say, you know what, Alan? Today was not your best day. But everybody is allowed to fall off the horse every now and then. Every one of us is fallible. So let's learn some lessons from what happened today. Let's be very honest with yourself on how you were complicit to what happened today.

Yeah.

And then let's get a good night's sleep and let's make sure tomorrow's a little bit better. And taking that approach with myself has been an absolute game changer.

Yeah, dude, that's so good. That's so good. You know, I'm sitting here reflecting and I'm thinking about, okay, well, surrender. Being radically honest, being self aware, like being all of that requires something I know you're crazy passionate about, which is just being present. Like, being present and that. I struggle with that to this day. You know, I got seven businesses, I got hundreds of team members. You know, I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm trying to be a good person. I'm trying, you know, trying to be a great dad. And I had the hell of a time just trying to, like, slow down and get in that present moment, even though that I know, I know that.

I know that when I'm in that.

Moment, I get ref, I get. Call it reflection, call it, I get downloads, if you will. Right. Why is it so freaking tough for us to get into a present moment?

Well, first and foremost, please know you are not alone. I mean, you are not even alone just on this conversation, because it is arguably my biggest challenge every single day. And it is something that I have been consciously aware of for years now. I mean, it is in both of my books. I talk about being present every single time I take the stage. I mean, and I still struggle with it. And that again, I've learned to give myself some grace and some compassion. So, you know, I look at everything kind of on a spectrum. And you know, on one end you have someone that is almost never present, that they do everything they can to alter their state of reality so that they don't have to be in the present moment. Whether that means reminiscing about the past, getting anxious about the future, or in many cases, people try to alter their state through drugs or alcohol or something else that takes them out of the moment. And I don't say any of that with an ounce of judgment. I'm just simply making an observation. Then on the other end of the spectrum, you have an 80 year old Tibetan monk who probably spends most moments somewhat present. But I say most because even a Tibetan monk isn't present 100% of the time. Over the course of their entire life, they just happen to be more present than the rest of us. And for me, looking at those two extremes, you know, I'm, I'm sliding on that scale all of the time. I mean, there are, there are times and there are days when I reflect before I go to bed where I can say, you know what, I was pretty present most of today. I was pretty sharp on stage. I was pretty sharp during my calls. I was very present with my kids when I took them to dinner. But then I also have some nights where I'm like, boy, this was not your best day, Alan. You spent a lot of time thinking about the past. You spent a lot of time worrying about the future. You spent a lot of time in distraction mode when you should have been focused on your children. You were more focused on the keynote you had to give the next day. But same thing, I learned to quickly move to that next play. And the beautiful part about being present, you know, when we think of moments, I mean, they are happening every moment. I mean, right now, you and I are present in this moment. Here comes Another moment. And there it goes. And here comes another one. And there it goes. So the beautiful part about it is anytime you find yourself not present and this goes back to an awareness. So you have to be able to recognize when your mind is wandering, when you're distracted, when you're not being where your feet are. And once you realize that, then you just need to have some type of course correction or triggering mechanism that gets you to refocus the lens and be present. And that's really where I am in my life. I mean, I know every morning when I wake up, I'm not going to be present for every moment of that day, but can I be more present more consistently than I have been in the past? And that's the goal. So when I catch myself with my mind wandering, I, I refocused that lens. I try to focus on the acronym when what's important now, you know, once again, at the time of this recording, right now, in this moment, having a thoughtful and impactful conversation with you to serve your audience is the number one priority I have right now. This is what is most important. And whenever we decide to conclude and this is over, that will shift to going on this six mile run. And I will be as present during that run as I can. Then I will come home and shower and I will go pick up my kids. I am taking them to dinner tonight and I will do my best to be as present as I can then. And of course there are little transition periods and little moments in between. And I know between now and tonight I still won't be present for every moment. But those are kind of the big pillars that I want to make sure I am present for. So just learning how to refocus that lens and like I said before, not beating myself up if I find that I am with my kids during dinner and my mind starts to wander a little bit, well, I can't get those moments back, so I don't need to dwell on them. That's going in the wrong direction. I just quickly snap out of it and say, okay, refocus the lens, get back to being present so you are not alone with that man. That is something that I know I will be challenged by for the rest of my life. But I like the progress I have made and I like the path that I am on. I am consistently more present today than I was a year ago and absolutely more than I was five or 10 years ago.

Yeah, I think. Well, I think it just goes to show that the intentionality behind the choice that's Being made, you know, when you, when you officially make. Make that choice and that intention is set, you're automatically gonna, gonna gain ground. Right? I was actually, you know, even with going back to the self awareness piece, it's like, I don't know about you, but the more I've practiced it, right. And it's taken. It's like those Kobe moments that you had at 3:30 in the morning, 4:00am, right. It's like you're in there, you're putting in the work, getting the sweat done. Right. It's, it's being more self aware now is easier now than it was five years ago or three years ago or a year ago.

Yeah, because you've gotten in the reps, you're aware of it, you've practiced it. You also now have. You can compare and contrast and say, you know what, I know how I feel when I am present and I know how I feel when I'm not. I prefer being present. So that's, you know, it's almost like Pavlog's dog and kind of the social conditioning of it. It feels better to be present. And this isn't to say that it's never appropr to reflect on the past or to prepare for the future. I mean, those are our cornerstones of, I believe, living a very fulfilling life. But we just don't want to live in either one of those places. You know, the past is done, there's nothing we can do about it. So we don't want to spend too much time dwelling on that. And at the same time, neither one of us knows exactly what's going to happen in the future. We like to believe we do as human beings, we like to believe we have a certain level of certainty, but neither you or I can say with 100% accuracy exactly even how this evening is going to unfold.

Yeah, that's true.

Don't know that. I mean, we believe we can make some accurate predictions, but we don't know that for certain. So I do think learning from the past and preparing from the future are important, but we don't want to live in either space. We want to try to be as present as we can as often as we can. And that in and of itself is really tough.

No, that's so true. You know, it's funny, when it comes to business and life, it seems like we're always on that tight wire of overestimating or underestimating. Right. It's that ebb and flow kind of thing. One of the things that I picked up on.

With your book, is this principle of cohesion, like being cohesive, like, explain that to the audience, because I feel like that that's something that they all need to hear and maybe adopt more into their own life, because I think a lot of us aren't unified.

Very true. Yeah. And as I continue to have this word play, cohesion and collaboration, I look at is again, kind of being sister words. And cohesion starts with the acknowledgement of I'm choosing to be a part of something bigger than myself, whether that's your business, whether that's your church, whether that's your basketball team, But I'm signing up to be a part of something that is bigger than me. And I have to sacrifice some of the me for the we, you know, that I, that I realized that everything can't be done exactly the way that I want it at all times, that I have to learn how to play nicely with others in the sandbox. And that certainly starts with a respect. You know, I need to respect my colleagues and my co workers or my teammates or the members of my community, you know, and certainly value them and appreciate them, but really have a strong sense of respect for them. And I often view it kind of like a jigsaw puzzle. You know, I've got 12 year old twin sons and a 10 year old daughter, so we haven't done puzzles for a little bit, but about three or four years ago we would, we would do puzzles pretty often. And you know, the cool part about a puzzle is every single piece is a slightly different color, has a slightly different shape. It basically plays a different role in the puzzle, but you need every single one of them to make the final picture, to make that final mosaic. So every single little piece is of equal importance. And I view that from an organizational level, to achieve real cohesion, you have to value what everybody else brings to the table. Now, I recognize, you know, with you own seven businesses, so as a CEO and as an owner, you may have a larger role or more responsibility than some of the other people on your team, but you still have to value what it is that they're doing.

Absolutely. I can't do what I do without them.

Absolutely. And even though your puzzle piece might be bigger, without their puzzle piece, you still can't finish the picture. So that's where it comes in. And cohesion has to do with role clarity. Everybody knowing, embracing and starring in their role, whatever their role may be. And one of the hardest parts about that, and I know you know this as such an except, is getting people to buy into a role that might not be the one of their choosing. They would kind of rather play a different role, or they would be a little higher on the org chart. Or if we're talking about sports, you know, I'd rather be a starter on the basketball team than in the second string. So one of the hardest parts of leadership and one of the hardest parts about creating true cohesion is getting people to embrace and buy into a role that's not one of their choosing. And then accountability plays a role, communication plays a role, but cohesion is really everybody doing what they can to show up as their best self and to make a maximum contribution to the greater good, whatever that may look like. And you know this when you see that firsthand. You know, it's kind of like an orchestra. You know, you're the conductor, but every single person in the orchestra has to play their specific instrument to exactly the music that's on the sheet in order to. For everything to blend together. And I would say, you know, yeah, probably one of the best. You know, the epitome of cohesion is an orchestra where everybody's playing a slightly different instrument, but it all contributes to that final sweet, sweet music that's so good.

The crazy part is if the orchestra has a couple of missing notes, you can tell it's right off the bat. You know, I was just thinking too, with that puzzle piece analogy that I think if you're. If leadership is done well.

My puzzle piece, for example, should get smaller year after year, because I'm building, in theory, I'm building people. I'm building people up to be the best of themselves. And I found that seeing potential in people that they don't see in themselves ends up becoming a highly effective tool for collaboration, tool for cohesion, tool for team building. And, you know, as I'm looking through that, one of the things that I've quickly discovered is those that are actually seeking, that find it, right. A lot of leaders. And I was this guy in years past as well. I found myself in burnout all the time. And the more often I was operating in burnout, the more often I was operating in ego, Right. Versus selflessness. Talk to me a little about burnout, because I know that, you know, as hard drivers, as people who are grinding, who want to go after it and make it. Make something out of nothing and. And all that kind of stuff. I deal with burnout on a regular basis or trying to prevent myself from getting to burnout status.

Absolutely. And I'm just glad that you have the honesty, the radical Honesty and the courage and the vulnerability to be able to acknowledge that once again. You're certainly not alone. Yeah, and I'm glad that you brought up ego. I mean, when I look at almost every single poor decision or poor behavior I've ever exhibited in my entire life, and I'm 46 years old, has been a result of either ego, fear or insecurity. Those three things drive all of the poor decisions I've made. So if I can learn how to at least recognize those now, those are very. I mean, that's part of the human condition. You know, I'm not saying that in judgment of myself. Fear, ego, and insecurity are things that everybody carries around to some degree. But the key is not trying to extinguish them completely, but is being aware of them and learning how to manage them and not make decisions based on them. And, yeah, so for me, that is something I'm always trying to be very conscious of. Before I make any massive decision, I'm asking myself, is this coming from a place of ego, fear, insecurity? And if it is, I put the brakes on it until I can kind of course correct and do some internal work to figure out what would be a better decision. Now, to your point of burnout, it's been my experience that burnout usually stems from. From misalignment. Between the hours that you're putting in and the sacrifices you're making and the meaning that you're finding in your work or in your contribution to the work. If you find meaning and purpose in what you do, if you're curious and fascinated by your work, if your work is in alignment with your core values and your beliefs, if you can see that you are making a contribution to those around you or to the greater good, that's usually the best remedy for eliminating burnout. Usually what happens. And again, I know this through firsthand experience. When I start approaching burnout, it's because those things start to get ambiguous and those things start to get foggy. I'm not really curious or fascinated by my work. I'm not finding a tremendous amount of meaning in it anymore. It's not always in alignment with my core values and beliefs. I don't really feel like my work is making a difference. And here I am, I'm logging all of these hours and making all of these personal sacrifices, and it's not filling my cup. It's not. And that's where we have to do some course correcting, because you and I both know people and certainly sounds like you may be one of them. Considering you own seven businesses, you may be able to work 60, 70 hours a week, but you have so much meaning in what you do. And it fills you up so much that as long as you're still investing in some self care and you're getting some sleep, you're exercising and you're eating, you're not going to be at risk at burnout if you keep the lights on in those other areas. So yeah, to me, that's where I just want folks to have a level of awareness. If you start to feel apathetic towards your work or towards a relationship and you don't feel like it's filling you up, that's when you need to open up the hood and start tinkering with the engine and saying, okay, I used to find so much meaning in my role at this company, but I don't feel like I am anymore. Or, you know, I used to be so fascinated by this. I used to devour podcasts and books on, you know, fill in the blank and now it doesn't really light me up anymore. That's when you need to start asking yourself some tough questions and have that personal radical honesty because you might need to start making some shifts.

Yeah, no, it's so good. You know, it's interesting to me that I was just thinking too, my wife and I have this polite disagreement. What I refer to as creating, because, you know, I enjoy creating content, live events, you know, me she refers to as work.

So where she, she can see overworking, I see indulging in what I love. So I thought that was very interesting that you meant, you mentioned the passion component because it is easy to go long and hard and for days on end if it's something you love doing. And it is equally as difficult to sit still if it's something you don't hate at all, like you just don't care.

Absolutely. I'm so glad that you brought that up because you actually just kind of uncovered a blind spot in the way that I just explained that where we do have to be careful, and I've been victim of this numerous times, we can get very consumed by what it is that we love from a vocational standpoint that we're not pouring into the other pillars of our life that at face value we say are important. You know, I mean my, you know, I'm very amicably divorced. I get along really well with my ex wife, but you know, my three children, I mean, they're the most important thing to me outside of my own health, which will keep me on the planet longer to continue to be with my children. You know, my three children are incredibly important, and there have been times where I have been so consumed and focused on work that I have not been living by what I would say is one of my priorities. And so it does take some refocus and be able to say if I do want to live a life of harmony, where there I have. I have several facets to things that fill me up. You know, relationships fill me up, faith fills people up, work, fitness, all of these different things. If you put, you know, it's that old. If you put all of your eggs in one basket, then you're at risk as well. So, yeah, it's being conscious of that. So even though you and your wife have that polite disagreement on that, I think she does bring up a point.

If you are pouring all into that, you might be neglecting some other things. And one of the most powerful lessons that I've learned firsthand is anytime you say yes to one thing, you are automatically saying no to something else. And you just need to make sure that you're okay with that trade. I mean, you and I have both decided by saying yes, the double opt in to record this during this hour that we are saying no to everything else that we could be doing during this hour. Now, that's a great trade. I'm great with that. I'm very thankful we're having this conversation. And I wouldn't want to be spending this hour doing anything else, which makes it a good decision. But what if one of my children had a soccer game right now or a dance recital and I said yes to your podcast, and now I have to say no to those things? Well, that might no longer. That might not be the trade that I want to make. You know, I might say, yeah, can.

We respect it as a trade you shouldn't take?

Yeah, absolutely. But I can tell you again, in the past, I've. I've made that decision. You know, I've. I've, you know, gotten on a plane to go give a keynote and missed something that was pretty important to my children. And I've forgiven myself for that because I can't change it. And I've had a great conversation with my children about that, but I'm doing the best I can not to repeat some of those same mistakes. So anytime we say yes to something vocationally, there is a chance that we're saying no to something personally. And that's where I think it's just important to put some guardrails up. I'M certainly not saying any of this from a place of judgment. I mean, I have no right to judge anybody else in the decisions that they make. I can only look at my own life. And for me, I just want to make sure that the decisions that I make consistently are in alignment with the person that I'm trying to become. And if my goal is to be a present and connected father, then I need to make decisions that are in alignment with that. However, my goal is also to be a fantastic keynote speaker and a helpful guest on people's podcasts and someone that writes books that people feel are of value to them. So these things must coexist. It's definitely not all or nothing. And it's something that I'm constantly tweaking and recalibrating. And now that my kids are getting older, it's nice that I can have some of those conversations with them. And I can say, hey, you know, I know that you have a basketball game this weekend, but I'm choosing to go, you know, to the. To the Ed Mylett power of one more event because it's something that's really meaningful to me, and it's something that I believe will help fill my bucket. And I can promise you I will come back as a better father. But in order for me to go to that, I'm going to have to miss your basketball game. And that's the decision that I'm making, and we can have an open and honest conversation about it. So to me, as long as we are very intentional and conscious of the decisions we're making, I think that's all we should ask for. It doesn't mean we're going to bat a thousand. And I can promise you I'm not going to make all perfect decisions moving forward, but I just don't want to make, as I said before, decisions out of ego, fear, or insecurity. I want to make them consciously because they're inching me closer to the person I'm trying to become.

Yeah, it's funny, I was just thinking to myself, you know, a couple of our mutual friends, obviously Ed and then David Meltzer. I heard you. I heard you mention a couple of things on both of their shows. I love that. That really stuck out to me because I'm, you know, I write books and stuff like that, and in the middle of writing the next one, all good stuff, which is great. You made this comment about you write books that you need to read yourself. So I'm curious, what was it about where you were at and what you're producing that made you want to write. Raised your game now.

Well, I'm glad that you picked that up because that is very true. I write the books that basically mirror what it is I'm going through in my own life, which means I'm writing the book that I need to be reading. And the reason I do this, this is for me. This may not work for other people and other authors, but for me, I find it part therapeutic and part incredibly helpful to kind of research, write and communicate and dive into the stuff that's giving me the most problems. I mean, you know, I mean, raise your game. So that came out in 2019. I mean, the first chapter is on self awareness. I spent almost four decades of my life being incredibly unaware that was something I need to hide. You're not alone. You know, as you mentioned, there's big sections of that book on being present. Well, why am I writing about that? Because for most of my life, I have not been near as present as I am capable of or have wanted to be. My most recent book, Sustain youn Game, that just came out earlier this year, it is about managing stress, avoiding stagnation, and beating burnout. Well, why am I writing about those things? Because I was stressed out. I felt, you know, at times, feel like I was stagnating. And you and I have already covered the burnout component. So I am like you. I am already working on another book now, and that's mirroring what it is that I'm going through in my own life. So for me, I find that to be a very helpful tool. But I've also learned, and as I've said to you, and you've said right back just now, so perfectly and insightfully, that neither one of us are alone.

It'S very easy for us to feel isolated, especially when you start talking about things like stress and stagnation and burnout. And we do live in a culture where I don't think some of these concepts, which I'll just put under the broad label of mental health, are as openly talked about as they should be. Which is why I really commend and respect you for your honesty and your vulnerability in sharing some of these things. We need more of that. So I've also learned that if I'm experiencing some of these things and I need to write about them to get better myself, there's a good chance that one of the other 8 billion people on the planet need to hear this also. So even though I'm writing the books because they're going to help Me, I'm writing them to be in service of others. I mean, the reason for writing them is there's no way that I'm the only one that's feeling this way. So if during my research and writing, I can kind of, you know, come up with some strategies that help me improve these areas, well, I don't want to keep those to myself. I want to share those with others. You know the quote that I mentioned on Ed show that a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle. I have gotten more feedback just on that line. And again, that's not even a quote. That's not an Allen Stein Jr. Original. I can't find who said that originally. I've seen it attributed to a couple of other people, but the premise is solid gold. So for me, if I can write something that's going to help me develop and get better as a man, I want to share that with as many people as I can because I want that to be able to help them. And, you know, same thing your show is doing. You know, I think you and I are both doing the best we can to, to. To be vulnerable and open and have a fruitful conversation. But the reason you hit record prior to this conversation is because we want to share this with other people. Because I know that whatever you and I are going through isn't just us. And if you didn't hit record, we would have this wonderful conversation just one on one, but we wouldn't be stewards of paying it forward. So I'm a huge believer. I'm glad you hit record. I'm glad you have such an amazing podcast and I'm glad you're writing books because you're putting this out into the world to affect others, which ultimately is what. What Ed does on such an unbelievable level.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, one of the things I was. That I'm constantly trying to remind myself of is that there's really two ways to learn in life. You can learn by your own mistakes and your own follies and, you know, crack your head and Lord knows I've learned by lots of them. Or you can learn by the mistakes or the lessons from other people. Right. You know, and so books and resources and conferences and all these different tools are ways in which I was able to get personal growth, become greater, becoming more self aware, sustain that level of growth. No pun intended. Right. Because of other people's lessons, other people's learnings. And that's one of the things I love a lot about your work too, is you've had this really interesting blender approach of taking everything you've learned from other people, everything that you've learned from your own circumstances and your situations, blending it together, coming up with practical principles and strategies that people can apply, like all day long, which I love. I absolutely love that.

Oh, well, I appreciate that because I think the application is what's most important.

One of the slight downsides of we'll just call it the personal development or self development space, which you and I certainly swim in.

Is kind of this well, what's next mentality. So I just devoured your book and it was amazing. Okay, now what's the book I need to read? It's like, dude, just sit on it for a little bit, breathe a little bit, and apply the stuff that is in your book before I start quickly moving on to the next. And once again, this is something I've been guilty of. You know, I sign up for online courses, I read online newsletters, I follow thought, you know, thought leaders on social media. I devour books, I devour podcasts, and I'm bringing all of this in. And what I found was the analogy I like to use was I was adding so many tools to my toolbox and I wasn't using them. So ultimately what I'm doing is now I'm lugging around a heavier toolbox. Yeah, I mean, how many hammers do you need? Probably don't need. You don't. I mean, I'm not handy enough to even know the difference between the different types of hammers, but you don't need a bunch of hammers. So if you already have a hammer that you're not using, going and adding more hammers to your toolbox is not going to serve you. Now, if you're using that hammer and you're using it as well as you can and that one gets worn out and you need to get a new one, or you realize that there are different hammers for different projects. I mean, I'm. If I need to add a picture to the wall behind me, I'm not going to use a sledgehammer to put the nail in. I even know that much. So, you know, it's a matter of let's start using the stuff that we're, that we're learning. And so to me, it's the application that's most important. So one of the things that I try and do in any of my posts or any of my keynotes or any of my books is try to break things down and offer action steps. You know, I love quotes. I Love stories, and I think those things are important. But how can you actually apply this story to your life? Like, what is the action step? You know, the Kobe Bryant story is one of my signature stories. I tell it almost every time I'm on stage. I love telling the story. It tends to resonate with the audience. But the lesson of the story is, what are the fundamentals in your line of work that you need to work towards mastery of? How can you emulate the same process that Kobe did? So I'm not telling the story just to tell it. The goal is for someone to actually sit down later that afternoon and go, okay, you know, whatever. I'm the CEO of a startup. I'm an accountant, I'm a lawyer. I'm a first grade teacher. All right, what are the fundamentals that I need to work towards mastery of to be really good at my craft? And how can I integrate that into my daily life in my morning and evening routine? And that's what's most important. So to me, it's all about the application. I think that comes from my coaching background. Background. You know, I may be labeled as a keynote speaker and an author, but I most identify with being a coach. And a coach's job is to get you to do things that you probably would not do on your own and as you said so perfectly, to believe in you almost more than you believe in you at the moment and get you to be able to see what you're capable of. So, yeah, to me, the more this stuff can actually be be put into practice, then the more valuable it becomes.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, in the last couple minutes that we've got, I'm curious to know, you know, you brought up sustain your game.

This, this market that we've been in the last couple years, 2020, 2021. Now, 2022 has been a massive teeter totter of, you know, huge wins, huge losses, huge struggles, huge, huge sacrifices.

For.

Those of our listeners who are, maybe they're plugging away, doing great, you know, 2020, they did great. 2020, 21, they. They did great. They were in an industry somehow they were insulated or whatever. And in 2022, maybe they're, you know, super excited. How does one keep up that level of momentum without getting lost in the fact that you've been winning for so long?

The first word that just popped into my mind when you said that, and I am going to keep going with my two different wordplay, but this time I am going to actually pick words that I believe mean different things. And that is contentment and complacency. I will tell you right now, I am incredibly content in my life. I am very thankful that at this moment I have my health. I have three wonderful children that I love very much. I get a chance to do work that I consider meaningful and in service of others. You know, I have great relationships with family and friends. I live an extraordinary life. Not from a. A monetary standpoint. I ain't got Ed Mylett pockets, trust me. But I live a life being able to do the things I love to do with the people that I love to do them with. And for that, I'm incredibly content. However, not an ounce of me is complacent. Not an ounce of me believes that you should put me under museum glass and call me a finished product. I am a work in progress. And each of those areas that I just mentioned, as grateful as I am, and as appreciative as I am, and thankful and content as I am, I'm not done yet. And I really believe that my best years are still ahead of me. Now, I recognize that because as we said, neither one of us can predict the future. I have no idea how much longer I'll be on this planet. It could be 20 years, could be 40 years, could be 50 years, could be a year. I have no idea. But I'm going to continue to strive towards up leveling myself as much as I can over that time. So I'm not complacent, but I am very content. And I think it's important to have that distinction, especially when you're on a winning streak. If you have been killing it, I think you should have an attitude of gratitude and you should be thankful that you've been able to kill it during a time period when a lot of people have been struggling. I think you should use that as an olive branch to reach out and try to help those that maybe are struggling or aren't in the same place that you are. But at the same time, don't allow your success to flip that complacency switch, which ultimately is another word for stagnation, and then just start treading water. Because I don't want someone to think, well, just because I've been winning for the last few months or winning for the last few years, that doesn't automatically qualify you to keep winning. Anything can change in a moment's notice, and obviously we saw that with the global pandemic. So for me, I always want to be very content with what I have in my life, but I never, ever want to be complacent. And I found it's just been my experience. I don't know if this is kind of karma or cosmic or whatever, but if you. If you don't have an attitude of humility, life will find ways to humble you. Life. Life will throw something at you. And it has thrown it at me a couple times when I've gotten a little too big for my britches. So that's the other thing that I remember. When things are going well in my life, I remind myself that this is not guaranteed and that I should be very thankful for this, but still go through life with the massive amount of humility, saying that, you know, I'm thankful that things in my life are. Well, they might not be going as well for some other people, but this is no guarantee. I didn't sign a lifetime contract of success. You know, this is something I have to work towards every single day.

What a way to close it out. Oh, my gosh, that was so, so good. You know, it's. When we. When we started looking at this, I was just thinking, in my experience, when you are in that contentment and gratitude scenario and you stay there, the distance between major adversity grows, right? So you. It's. But yet if the more you're in your. Your ego or the more you're in your. I've got this all figured out. I'm the it. I got, you know, that kind of thing. The. The adversity, like, bookends kind of close in almost like in Star wars or that little metal thing is like closing in on the, you know, kind of thing. So I don't know why that stuck in my head, but. But no, I still love that because it's so true. Like, every single time that I've been forced to go through a massive humbling. It was directly. I mean, directly corresponds to a massive moment of pride or ego or something stupid I was doing, you know, Man.

Well, you know, the. The. And on some level, the. The pandemic, I think, humbled some people. You know, I mean, what was fascinating about that? I mean. I mean, I remember it like it was Yesterday, you know, March 13th of 2020, when the world shut down, and I saw my entire calendar of speaking events vanish in less than 24 hours. And in full transparency. I mean, I had a borderline panic attack. I was. I was. I was scared to death. And I allowed myself to feel that. I mean, I allowed my. I mean, for those. For 48 hours, I allowed myself to sulk, I allowed myself to pout. I allowed myself to curse. I allowed myself to punch the couch and kind of, you know, process these, these emotions that were you overwhelming. And then after 48 hours, I said, okay, this type of behavior is not going to move you forward. I reminded myself that keynote speaking is what I do. It's not who I am. So the pandemic might have changed the method at which I deliver stuff, but at my core I am still a coach. At my core I am still someone that wants to empower people and challenge them and hold them accountable. So I started asking myself, all right, if I can't do that at in person events on stages, how can I do that? And certainly, you know, the speaking industry kind of skewed towards doing things virtually. You know, I started getting on more people's podcasts because I figure I've got some discretionary time. Why don't I have some wonderful conversations with some great people like you and see if we can spread the word. I created an online course. I started doing some one on one coaching because that was something I had wanted to do before but just had never made time for it. So I started thinking, how else can I add value to people? I mean, I wrote sustain your game during the pandemic because, you know, I had extra time and I wanted to figure out how can I still make a contribution to those around me? Because I've always been a believer. If you are making a contribution and you were adding value, money will find you. Now, it might find you in different ways, it'll find you in different amounts, but it will find you. And when my primary vocation of in person keynote speaking was wiped off the table, well, I still have bills to pay and I still have to provide for my children. So I had to figure out other ways. But what I didn't say, I didn't ask myself, how can I make money? The first question I asked myself is how can I be of service and how can I add value? Because I've done this long enough to know that if I could do those things, the money will follow. I mean, I'm still a capitalist at heart and I still want to be rewarded and compensated for the value that I add. But it's kind of the chicken and the egg. And I think if you're always looking for the next dollar, that is very short lived. If you're always looking to fill somebody else's bucket dollars, they'll find you. And again, maybe not to the Ed Mylett level, he's kind of an anomaly. But I don't need all of that. I try and live a life of abundance, but not just from a materialistic or financial standpoint. I try to live a life of abundance in every area of my life. And yeah, so that was that. The pandemic was absolutely a humbler, if you will, because prior to that, you know, my speaking was really ramping up. January and February of 2019 were the two best months I had had as a professional speaker in five years. And then just like that, you know, it humbled me. Quick.

Yeah, no, gosh. You and I are buddies now. We could talk for days. I know.

We could talk. I know. I love it. I'm so thankful for that.

Well, I know you got to get to your six mile run, but I'm just curious, where can anybody else find more about you? Where should we send them to and get to know more about you?

The main site is allensteinjr.com and that pretty much covers everything I do from a speaking standpoint. But I also created a supplemental site, strongerteen.com that has information on the books, the podcast, the course, the one on one coaching. I'm very easily found on social Anstein Jr. On Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook. I love engaging with folks. So anyone listening to this or who has been watching this, if you have a question, if you have something you want to share, even if you have something you disagree with, shoot me a DM on Instagram or on LinkedIn. I take a tremendous amount of pride in not only being accessible but also being very responsive. So I love getting back to folks. And yeah, if someone's interested in either book or audiobook, just search, Raise your Game or Sustain youn Game, Amazon, Audible, or wherever you get your books. And yeah, man, this was so much fun. I'm hoping this is the first of many future conversations you and I have.

Yeah, absolutely. No, no, it's. It was a bit of joy for me as well and I know the audience got a ton from it. You can't do the work that you've done and worked on, the self awareness that you've worked on without getting nuggets that can help add value to other people's lives. There's. There's. You just can't. There's no way around it. And I think you've probably discovered, like I have, that the greatest purpose in life will ever have is serving the person we used to be. Right.

Love it.

Oh, man. Dude, thank you so much for coming on.

Mic drop moment right there. That's beautiful.

All right, dude, take it easy. See ya. I hope you liked that video. And if you did, make sure you check out this next video right here.

Part of God's love and grace is God's judgment. Because I'll be judged fairly and I'll be given a chance to admit, repent, do what I need to do. What if I have all this stuff that I did and God says you don't have to do any work, I just forgive you? I think I would feel. Wait, I need to fix some stuff. I don't need forgiveness. I need you to guide me on how to fix the things I did. So my image of God is God's love and grace and judgment for me, they're all part of God.