The Personal Branding AI Blueprint No One’s Talking About

Brand building now because of AI indexing is imperative for the future of any professional chatgpt. Should I work with this guy Joseph, or should I work with this guy Sam? Well, Joseph, a huge social following. He's a comedian, he's got a big brand, Everyone knows him, everyone likes him. And then this other guy's like, this guy, we don't know who this guy is. Or this guy, you know, has a couple reviews, but there's nothing, there's no data on him. Because I talk about branding and I talk about, I use that analogy all the time. Like the writing's on the wall for my industry that if people don't establish a personal brand the next 24 months, they're not gonna be in the business. You know, my daughter's at 11, she's a better editor than any editor I can hire.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so kids realize this now, like adults should too.

Well, and guys, help me welcome the one and only Joseph Shallowby. How are you doing, man?

I'm doing great, thank you. Thanks for having me.

You know, it's really cool. I've been excited about the conversation for a while. One of the things that I've sense that the marketplace is drastically changing and one of my good friends, Rory Vaden, obviously spends a lot of time in this is the, the need for, the establishing of, the creation of, and the authenticity of building a personal brand. And I know, I want to start there. I know you're doing a lot of amazing things. Obviously you've got millions of followers on social. Got amazing. You already have one amazing book. You had another amazing book coming out. You got all these different things working, you know, but it's not often you get to see somebody who actually build a personal brand from scratch to the level in which you have. So maybe take us down a little bit of deep dive of what you see that's working in the marketplace versus what you see that's not.

So I'm going around stage to stage speaking about the importance of brand development. Not so much for just having a personal brand, more so that if a client doesn't know you.

AI and now their decision is based on does the AI recognize this person? Does the AI think I should work with this person? Then the classic going to work for you, we'll work with you. Because in the mortgage space, when someone wants to decide if they're going to do a mortgage, the biggest decision of their life right now, they're doing due diligence, they're going on Google, yada, yada, they're checking your reviews now what they're going to do or they're already doing is they're saying chatgpt, should I work with this guy Joseph or should I work with this guy Sam? Well, Joseph has a huge social following. He's a comedian, he's got a big brand, Everyone knows him, everyone likes him. You know, he's got tons of reviews and it just gives him a whole profile. And then this other guy's like, this guy, we don't know who this guy is or this guy, you know, has a couple reviews but there's nothing, there's no data on him. So brand building now because of AI indexing is imperative for the future of any professional. Not just mortgage, not real estate, not anything. Brand building is, is congruent with AI. It's just, it's part of AI. So that, that's, it's not, it's not a, you know, something that's, you should think about doing. It's something that's absolutely necessary to do for whatever profession you have. Because we all asked for it. Everybody wanted to ease with AI. Guess what? You got ease. So now there's, now AI is your decision, your deciding factor. Now it only has data that it pulls from social media platforms, that it pulls from online platforms, that it pulls from all the different websites. And it can make a very, very elaborate decision, not just on one website. That's why you have to be on every platform. You got to be everywhere.

Well, so one of the things I, I heard, I think it was this maybe two weeks ago, is that the vast majority of the population, or let's say population, those that would rank themselves doing Google search, you normally pop on and do a Google search and say, hey, you know, what's the best painter in my area? What's the best, you know, place to get my nails done or buy a car or any number of things. They, they're now not really going to search engines, they're actually going to the AI tools, which I think is what you're referring to with AI indexing. So for those who haven't heard the term, maybe break down what AI indexing is since AI is such a new thing for so many people.

So it's just the same thing like Google indexing. Google now when, when you, it's, it's SEO via AI. So now all, all of the.

It'S a combination of all of the search engines basically running a concurrent search and then giving a summarized data of all, all your data points. So it's like.

It'Ll Give you very, very elaborate data on what specifically you're looking for. So is Joseph a great mortgage professional? Based on all the data I ran, Joseph is a great mortgage professional. He's done tons of mortgages, has tons of happy customers. He's also very well liked in the community, yada yada. So it, it, it aggregates all of the data points. It doesn't just use one platform. It leverages every single platform from Instagram to X to Facebook to LinkedIn to YouTube to, you know, can you imagine how, you know, to Reddit, you know, all.

Open AI pays all of this, all of the platforms an exorbitant amount of money to use their, their engines. So it's aggregating across every single platform. So that's why, you know, you make, you got to make sure obviously you have a great reputation, but there can't be any blemishes on any rep, on any, any sites. Right. It's gonna, it's gonna index that, it's gonna pull that and it's gonna give that consumer that data point. Yeah, it's a combination of everything. That's all it is, it's everything now. And, and it's imperative that brand, your brand is established and it's, you know, and you try to preserve it as much as you possibly can.

So let's, let's take out the AI indexing piece. If, if the AI tool itself is going out and searching the, searching the web, all right, pulling that data in, reconciling the data, filtering it through it, trying to discern, you know, what is, I guess, what is truth versus what is false. How does someone especially come out of the gate nowadays, build a personal brand using, using the tool AI, when it sounds like the indexing is still being pulled from the web. So do you need to go out to the web and go ahead and make sure that the web is super dialed in so when it does go to index, or is there a certain way in which you could, you know, have an AI tool suggest you over, over a different professional or things of that nature?

No, no, the, the way it's going to, the way it pulls is you have to just start creating content. That's it. Oh, there's no magic recipe. There isn't. This is kind of like working out, like, can I just take a pill and just be ripped? Yeah, like, no, you could take a pill, but you have to do a bunch of other stuff, you know, like, yeah, yeah. Then you got, you know, my supplement stack in the morning is like a handful of pills. And then I work out, you know, like, and then I have to make sure my nutrition's dialed. Like, there is no magic pill. There is no, like, can I just ask AI to do it for me? No, you can't. You just got to do the work. Unfortunately, that's where the. The problem is for most people. Nobody wants to do the work. And it's. It's a lot of work. Look, here you are, you know, grinding, doing a podcast and doing another podcast and doing another podcast, building your brand. It's like you're putting in the work, you know, then you're got. You got to work with your editing team to do shorts. Like, granted, you and I have bigger budgets than the average layman. And we can. We realize, like, the writing's on the wall. Our brand is imperative. We got to build this, and this is how we're able to be on stages. This is how we're able to release books, is how we're able to get in the rooms that we want to be in. But the average Joe can still do this at a very low level right from their home, from the comfort of their home. You know, my daughter's at 11. She's a better editor than any editor I can hire.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, so kids realize this now, like adults should, too. Yeah, they're laughing. YouTubers. YouTubers making fun of them years ago. Now they all want to be there.

That. That's. It's funny. I. It's a bit of a side story, but in my personal life, you know, in. In dating and whatnot, the. I guess it was interesting that someone realized. Looked at my face, I'm like, isn't he a YouTuber? That's how they made a frame of reference, which was kind of funny because, you know, obviously We've been on YouTube for a while, doing both direct to camera teachings style things, podcasting, all kinds of stuff, which you're well aware of. What do you think is what. All right, so I know. I know you're working.

I want to add to that because you just mentioned dating, and I want to give you a real story about, you know, the dating world now, because the dating world is more advanced than the business world. When I. When I got divorced and I was dating, if I was approached by someone on the date, on a. On an app or whatever, and they didn't have a social media profile and they didn't have, like, Instagram, they didn't have YouTube, they didn't have TikTok, they didn't have all the different things for me to vet them. I immediately knew that that was not a real person, that was a scam. So can you imagine someone making the biggest financial decision of their life and they're like, they can't vet them on all these platforms.

Yeah.

Like, so it's already there. Like being able to vet someone in the dating world via social platforms is already there or, you know, they're a scam. It's there now. That's. That is your main utilization of, you know, I, I would say, like, AI next thing is going to be even more imperative for the dating world, but that is the main utilization right now in the dating world. Like, if you're not on Instagram and you're in the dating world, like, you are a fake. You're like, you're fake. You're not a real person. You're just there trying to, like, scam someone or, you know.

Yeah.

You know, basically hustle them into some WhatsApp group and, and then, you know, take their money, whatever it is, you know. So. Yeah, so. So it, it's already there. So the dating world already has that there now and it's, it's imperative that you have that there. So in, in my space, whatever, any financial sector, it's a mandatory if it's already in the dating world.

Yeah.

And, and people, like, people are like, laugh at me. Like, what do you mean it's a dating world? Like, dude, this is. You're just going to go out on a date with someone, someone's going to give you their Social Security number and all their financial information. You don't think they want to vet you on everything possible?

Yeah.

You don't think they want to ask chat DVT about you?

Yeah, it's really funny because I, I also know that there's. There's private groups and all kinds of stuff even in social media world, you know, Facebook, private groups, and, you know, WhatsApp group. All these different types of things that center around making sure that the person you're quote, unquote, seeing is the person you're quote, unquote seeing.

Yeah. Right.

It's like, have you dated this person? Have you done this thing kind of thing? And you know, I. If part of that makes sense and part of it's kind of disturbing at the same time, to be honest. You know, but, but at the same time that one of the. The biggest things in your life, you've got to like, get right. Well, get right to is a relative term, but that requires intentional diligence. Let's put it that way is your significant other, you know, being, being properly aligned. Because if you're not properly aligned, a whole host of other things can come up, come off at the wheels versus being aligned. There's a whole, a whole growth curve you can have.

Right now. I think, you know, because I talk about branding and I talk about, I use that analogy all the time, like the writings on the wall for my industry, that if people don't establish a personal brand the next 24 months, they're not going to be in the business. Yeah, that's it. And if they are in the business, then the people that have established a personal brand are just eating their lunch.

Yeah.

And it's a matter of time.

Mr. Well, what are you doing differently or what do you see that's, that's working for you differently that a lot of folks aren't seeing? Because I find that sometimes everything's pattern recognition, right? If you can find the right pattern, you can find the right flow. A lot of times you can model it or even improve it or innovate it. So what's working for you that maybe other folks aren't getting? Right?

So this is, this is my secret stocks. My main channel on Instagram generates about 20 to 30 million views a month, about 15,000 story views a month. So I treat my ch so it's a television station, effectively, it's actually more effective than television station because average TV channel gets 2 million views a month and my channel gets 30 million views. But it doesn't get views, it gets engagement, meaning like shares follow so people actually engage with it. So the efficacy of it is 10x of a just a viewership, right?

Yeah.

So the idea for me is I am not CEO on my channel. I'm basically just an entertainer. You come to me, you watch my channel, you are going to be entertained, you're going to laugh, you're going to relate, you're going to be like, I can't believe this guy's like in the streets doing this, that and the other. And it's going to drive, you know, curiosity. It's going to drive you to want to work with me. It's going to drive you to want to learn more about what we're doing. It's going to drive you to want to buy my book, watch my podcast, whatever it is. You know, you're getting 20, 30 million views a month, a bunch of hits on your profile. Like it's going to spark curiosity across all platforms. So the easiest way to think about it is your channel is your television station. Your stories are your ads.

Okay?

So if you treat your, your channel like a TV station and your stories like an advertisement platform, then you'll understand because you don't go to Instagram to be bored. Like, I don't post reels about the market volatility. I don't post reels about, you know, CPI reports. I don't post reels about, you know, you know what, what the Fed's gonna do? What I do is I post something to make you laugh, to make you relate to, drive a hundred thousand views on a video. And then you click, you go to my story, and then all of a sudden you're learning about the mortgage market, you know, or, or the housing market or whatever it is. Yeah, you could choose to go scroll right past it, or you could choose to watch it. You know, like, I, I'm not subjecting you via a real, to like force you to watch my content. I'm basically putting it on my story. And those who want to learn and educate themselves can stay on there and learn and educate themselves. And those don't, they don't. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact my, my algorithm. I still drive tens of millions of views. And that's, I learned that through so much cost and spending. Like, I spent a fortune to realize, like, I, the algorithm does not like this content. They like entertainment. They want me to be an entertainer. Now, I did, I did create a new page where I, you, I, it doesn't have, it's not viral and it's called the Joe Shelby. It's not Joseph Schalby, it's the Joe Shelby. And all that is, I just launched it about a week and a half ago. It's, it's just thought leadership stuff, you know, more of like the Alex Hermosi style content.

And, and it's starting to get some engagement, some traction. But what it's doing is for me, for my personal brand, is, it's centering my brand of my branding. So I'm not just an entertainer on Instagram. I have this like, centered content where I repurpose that content on LinkedIn and TikTok and other channels of X, some of the more serious stage channels and platforms. So I have this more serious side of me on Instagram that you could choose to follow if you want. Like, you know, I don't, I don't share the content. Sometimes I'll, I'll, I'll collaborate with it, but, but it brings it back to center and drives that seriousness of who I am as a Thought leader.

You know, it's so interesting. I never thought about doing that. I've always just had one channel or well, you know, one, you know, essentially one profile per channel. Right. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, et cetera. I've never thought about trying to diversify a little bit. So for example, one of the things I've heard recently, it's very similar to what I think you're saying is like people, the apps want people to stay on the app, right?

Yeah.

So what causes them to stay on the app? Well, if you follow the Tick tock, Instagram flow and philosophy YouTube shorts, it's basically like you're saying it's entertainment. Now. I would say that I'm not that entertaining. Right. So like, so, you know, so. But at the same time.

But you are, but you are because you, you have comedic, you know, everybody likes to laugh and have fun. Everyone, you know, so like you just identify what is it that makes you laugh and have fun and really like I'm very good at just being on the streets and like, and meeting new people and getting really uncomfortable and out of my shell. Yeah, that's not for everybody. But whatever it is that drives, you know, you to laugh and have fun, like, and be relatable, make that your entertainment channel, you know.

Yeah, I just, I just love that theology. I've never, I mean I've never really thought about kind of using social platforms as straight up media venues for myself, like owning my own TV station, for example, like you mentioned. I've never seen it that way. And that's. So that's. See that's the subtle things. I think sometimes for someone like yourself and other people that have it just, you know, they, it's a niche that, that really molded. Well, it's something you, something you understood very early on. Someone like myself is like a, it's a major. Aha. And I'm just wondering right now how many of you, how many of the viewers and listeners are like, I'm not treating my social media like a media channel. I'm treating my. Like, I'm like, I'm just, I'm not really utilizing it that, that way.

Yeah, no, it took a lot of research to figure out like, well, I don't need a hundred thousand views on this message. I just need people that care that actually like want to see my story, to view it, you know, So I just need eyeballs on, you know, I'm, you know, I'm basically like a view machine on my main channel, so, so I could drive traffic to Anybody, like, I could advertise this show. 10, 15,000 people are going to know about this show automatically because I posted it on my story, you know, like, yeah, that. Which is great. You know, the people that want to know are gonna. Are gonna watch it. So. So it's. It's. If you treat your channel like you Your channel like a TV station, and I put out some data points, like, what is a TV station actually generate a month? A TV channel? 2 million views a month. Just an average. A big channel generates like 20 million views. Like a, you know, like a Fox or something.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so, you know, you got 2 million to 20 million. I generate as much as freaking Fox TV. That's insane.

Yeah.

And then what, Then what do I pay Fox to advertise to get? Whatever. Who are going to click through that advertisement anyway or fast forward.

Yeah.

Past it. It's the same concept. Yeah, same concept.

I think the other thing, if you look at. From a business perspective, I think one of the things you did really well is you're already breaking down. Okay, well, if I treat my channel like more of a place of entertainment, but yet when I post a story or something like that, it does lead to a. It's almost like, you know, you said kind of having your own ad, right?

It does.

And it can produce business, right?

It definitely does produce business. It. And it can. And you know, for me, I. I work with some of the biggest YouTubers. I was talking to one of the most famous YouTubers that. And his target avatars are like 11 to 15. His name is Ash. And he's like, dude, I'm generating 400 million views a month. And I was, I was proud to say, you know, I'm, I'm. I started a year and a half ago, and this is like, this guy makes a million dollars every five months. YouTubing. He makes for. He does 400 million views a month. I'm like, oh, cool. I'm doing like 40 million views a month. And he's like, that's respectable. Like, you know, here I am, like, sitting with like. And that's not my job. That's not like what I want to do. But, like, the fact that I'm even able to say that I'm like doing 40 million views across all platform with this guy who does this, and he's one of the most famous people on the planet. You know, that was kind of cool. That was enlightening to me. I'm like, wow, I've actually done it. I did in a year and A half. I'm sitting here with, you know, actually people who do this for a living. And I'm able to kind of like, you have a respectable figure, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

It reminded me of when I was, when I, when I was sitting with the CEO of a mortgage banker one time and he's like, oh, I was, I went to a conference and all these guys were doing 100 million a month in volume. And I was young, this was probably 12 years ago. And I was like, wow, a hundred million dollars a month in volume? That's unreal. I'll never get to like, I was thinking in my head, I'm like, how am I ever gonna get to a hundred million dollars a month in volume? Like, that's just incredible. And he, this was a CEO. He was one of my mentors early on. Mentors. And he was just telling me about that. And then in my head I was like, that's unreal. I'll never achieve that. I didn't say I'll never achieve that. I said, I'd love to achieve that one day. And then, same thing. It was the same thing. Well, now we're doing about 500 million a month as a company. 4 or 500 million a month. I'm doing 5x whatever I dreamed of doing 11 years ago. So now, same concept, like now, now the person's not a mentor. He's actually like a mentee of mine. But, you know, like, hey, that, you know. But, but.

Yeah, I, I respect them so much as a creator because he's one of the most famous creators on the planet and he's very like, wildly successful. And I like to have my kids hang out with this 19 year old. My kids are 10 and 11. This 19 year old's making seven figures and they just get to get mentored and see him doing content.

And then put themselves on the same page because he's also, you know, he's also a kid. But, but I realized I'm like, I can achieve this number if I get to 3,400 million views a month. Like, I will dominate the mortgage market. I will. It would be inevitable. I'm already dominating the mortgage market now. 30, 40 million views. Once I get to 3, 400 million views, I will be the biggest brand. I mean, I'm already the biggest personal brand in the mortgage industry, but I will be by far like the superstar of the space. And I could see myself doing that in about a year, a year and a half.

Yeah. Why could you? Far away from it.

What I think is really interesting can you pause it? My, the sound just went nuts.

So. All right, so we.

So one of the things I think is very interesting right now that I've never, I've never heard someone who's playing at an entrepreneurial level the way you're playing at entrepreneurial level, even care about social media and brand growth. Like, I think you're the only voice, especially in the mortgage industry, that's like, no, I am. You've got to get in this.

Yeah.

Which is mind blowing, but at the same time, it also gives, it's also an amazing voice for, you know, those that need to learn.

Yeah. I'm not in the real estate space. You got Ryan Sirhant, you got Grant Cardone, you got, you know, a ton of people in the space, in the real estate space doing it now.

Yeah, yeah.

But not in the mortgage space because they're, I don't know, too good or too, they think they sell a boring product, they can't do it or whatever it is. There's a couple guys, you know, that have done it in the mortgage space, and, you know, they understand it, but now it's more imperative than ever. And people are realizing it because I'm speaking about it. I'm, I, I have a big voice in the space, and I'm going around stage to stage, headlining conferences, talking about it. So, you know, it's starting to be like, oh, oh, yeah, we got to do it. Joe's doing, it's growing, you know, and also being the CEO of the number one company in the state of California, top five mortgage company. And then being such a big voice already helps, Right?

Yeah. Well, let me ask you this. I, I, how much of this mindset shift for you? I mean, how, at what point was it like an almost like an immediate aha, that, oh, I gotta, I gotta activate this. This is where the future's going.

No, the story's pretty funny. How I started brand building.

There was a competitor, okay? So I, I, I'm, I'm in a basketball league. I run about, we have a men's league on Thursdays. And on our number one player at the time, he, I was trying to recruit him, but he was also my star player. He. And he was the number one personal brand in the mortgage industry. He's about a third the size I am, but he's also a big personal brand, and I was dying to recruit him. I gave him a crazy offer, and he ended up, he ended up saying, you know what? I'm gonna go to your competitor, not you. They gave him a better offer because my competitor always does that. I, I throw a crazy off. They're like, we'll give a view in a better offer. I'm like, they're, well, you know, just like, they're willing to lose money, you know. Yeah. And just, just to beat me on the offer. So he ended up going to my competitor, and he was a big personal brand, which is fine, but what it did was I'm like, you know what? He was my best basketball player on the team. Now we're going to lose all our games because he was scoring like 30 or 40 of our points of our seven. You know, I'm like, I can't beat him in basketball because he played professional basketball. I'm like, I'm not. And he was, you know, he's younger than me or 15 years younger than me. So I'm not going to try to compete at an athletic level with someone like that, you know. But what it did do was like, you know, I can't beat him in basketball, but I'm going to beat him in branding. I got more resources, I'm willing to invest, and like, I'm. I'm a performer by nature anyway. So I, I just started a quest. I just started on the quest of brand development then because I was like, it lit a fire under my butt that I'm gonna now get my butt kicked in basketball. And. And he went to my competitor after I gave him a ridiculous offer that I couldn't even. That I was gonna get my butt kicked by my, my partner. He's gonna be like, what did you just offer him? He's the analytical guy.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm glad I didn't. He didn't take it. I took the money that I would have gave him and just put it in my own brand.

Yeah, well, let's, let's, let's, let's. I'm gonna break this down for a microsecond with a couple minutes we got left. What is the number one thing people should start doing and number one thing people should stop doing? When it relates to personal branding, the.

Number one thing people need to start doing is start creating content that isn't about their market. They need to do something that's relatable to the people, entertain the people, give the people what they want. Because if you're the most people, 99% of people are discouraged because, like, I was talking about, you know, health insurance, and nobody's watching my content. I was talking about mortgages, and nobody's watching My content. Like, would you watch that content? You on social media to watch insurance content? Are you on social media to watch health insurance or life insurance, whatever the heck industry you're in? You're not on there to watch that. That is boring. You're on there to laugh. You're on there to joke. You're on there to have fun. You're on there to escape. Do something that hits those mark those things, make them escape, make them laugh, make them relate, make them have fun. Make them want to stay on your channel, period. Yeah, don't talk about your business. If you want to talk about your business, put it on your stories.

Yeah, see, man, I love it. All right, what's the number one thing you should stop doing?

Stop doing content about your business. You know, stop doing content about your business. Start. Start doing content about who you are and what makes you laugh and what makes you have fun. I'm that. That's the easiest thing to stop doing and then start posting, Start doing content like a lot of people need to start. Start getting out of your comfort zone, doing stuff like, you know, man, on the street, content works really well, always hits hard.

Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking, too. I think when I just kind of reflect back on what you just shared, I think it comes down to one word. It comes down to authenticity. Like, be all of you. Be the integrated version of you. Like be the. Be the real you.

Yeah, I. I haven't polished being you. Don't be mortgage you. Yeah, nobody cares about mortgage you. They care about the biker you or they care about the, you know, fitness you. They care about the whatever you. I don't know what it is. That's you.

Yeah, well, dude, I've already enjoyed the conversation a whole lot. I can't wait for the audience to continue to learn more about you and everything you're cooking at. Where can I find out more about you as far as, like, what?

Where?

Eventually? Because they need to come hear you speak. They need to grab a couple of the books and they need to be taking the steps towards what you're teaching because AI is moving the needle. AI indexing. Moving the needle. You're moving the needle in your industry. They could be moving the needle in their industry, and I'd love for them to learn more about you and I kind of connect with you again.

Easiest way to find me is Joseph Shalabee on all platforms. My name, Joseph Shalabee. Instagram, tick tock, YouTube. If you want to learn more about my book, pick up my book, Rising from the sand. You can buy it@risingfromthesand.com or anywhere you buy your books, Amazon, Etc. Rising from the sand.com and then just follow me Joseph Shalabee. And if you find me on Instagram, you'll see I only follow three things. I follow E Mortgage Capital, I follow Coffees for Closers and I follow the Joe Shalabi. Follow those three.

Love it. Dude. Dude. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. I really appreciate you and look forward to more conversations.

Hey, it was a pleasure to be on the show. God bless you.

Likewise. Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed that amazing conversation. And if you want more just like that to help you level up your life and your business, you're not going to miss this next one. Check it out.

And it was in that moment that my life changed. In that moment that I realized that I wasn't going to listen. I made up my mind right then and there that I was not going to let someone else's perception of my capabilities become my reality.