The REAL Future of Marketing | Rohit Bhargava

I think we all need reminders, but also inspiration to be the best, most thoughtful versions of ourselves. I do think that if we had a world where there were more non obvious thinkers, people who were unafraid to question their own assumptions, we'd have more acceptance among people. We'd have less division.

Yeah.

We'd have less people being like, I'm right, you're wrong, we just have more of an open minded culture. My big why is like to try and do my part to create more of a culture like that.

Guys, welcome to the one and only Roet by Garba. How you doing man?

Oh, I'm good, I'm good. It's good to be talking to you dude.

I'm excited to talk to you. I'm always, I'm always inspired and encouraged by people who think outside the box and like really, really kind of focus there because I found like, I feel like there's too many entrepreneurs, achievers, just everyday human beings that are constantly walking around and they're spending more time from my perspective, sleepwalking through life. So help me understand how you actually got into the niche of like this non obvious thinking content. Because it's super creative, it's super unique and I know you travel all over the world like sharing the concepts.

Yeah, for me it was from advertising. So I spent a lot of time in the advertising industry where you're literally getting paid for coming up with ideas like this. So you know, I found pretty early in my career that like the crazier I could think and the bigger ideas I would have liked, the more it was valued.

Yeah, well when you're looking at, you know, kind of how, how it's applied in the marketplace now, I mean, what are the some.

What do you.

I tell you what, one of the things I always like to ask is what a lot of time is, what is the problem that it's actually being solved. So when you look at the, the landscape of business owners, you know, whether it be marketing or non marketing or entrepreneurs, things of that nature, high, excellent achievers. What are you saying that they're not really grasping that's actually causing a problem that you, you help them overcome?

Well, I think if you think about marketing, the biggest problem is noise, which is that everything's kind of blending in. There's more and more noise than ever before. And so your challenge is to stand out.

Yeah.

And get someone to pay attention. And so to some degree I think good marketing can help you do that. If you have something relevant to say, otherwise you're just interrupting People shocking them for some reason, then they forget. Right. Which is what half the super bowl ads are.

Yeah. Well, when you look at it, what is. So a lot of times, I know one of the pattern interrupts I see a lot of times is clickbait. Right. So what's the difference between a non obvious concept, if you will, and something that would be considered clickbait? How do you view the difference?

Well, clickbait is, I think bounce rate is one thing you'd look at, which is clickbait is they clicked on it, but then they left immediately because they figured out that they got tricked or they got duped somehow, or that it just wasn't relevant. Right.

Yeah.

And the difference between that and non obvious thinking is, first of all, I mean, non obvious thinking is not just about marketing or getting people to pay attention. To me, non obvious thinking is about seeing the world a little bit different and a little bit more broadly and not being closed minded. And that affects every level of your life. Right. I mean, you may be walking past a great relationship with someone as a friend or maybe even like a romantic relationship because you just weren't in tune, you weren't paying attention.

Yeah. Well, one of the things I saw you do, some of your YouTube content, which is awesome, by the way, and I highly encourage the audience to grab some of it for sure, is you were actually walking them through, kind of like your way of kind of identifying and pulling these different concepts and trying to determine trends and things of that nature to do that. And I know one of the core principles is to become more observant. So when you're thinking about walking past that person, whether it be at work, whether it be in the marketplace or, you know, in, in the romantic category or whatever that category is. You know, so many times our head is down. Like our, you know, we're kind of like folks, Sometimes we're in our phones, sometimes we're just distracted, Sometimes we got all, you know, whatever's going on in life already in our head. You know, how do you kind of like use the concepts of how you pull together trends and, and, and the, I guess the principle of being more observant, you know, to really kind of hone in the skill so you can not pass up some of these opportunities.

Well, one of the ways to be more observant is to try and remove distractions. Yeah, we all have ways that we do that. I mean, we silence our phones at certain times. Right. Because we don't want the distraction of that so that we can observe or pay Attention or be present in whatever moment we're in.

Yeah.

So it's taking that to the next level, I think is really important, because a lot of times, like what you were talking about with me, looking at trends and looking at these different patterns. Right. One of the elements of being observant is noticing these details, but the bigger piece of it is finding context for it with everything else. And the way that I think I do that, which any of us could do, but we're just not used to thinking this way, is that I collect ideas the same way most of us would collect frequent flyer miles. Yeah, right. So, like, you would fly from Miami to New York, you'd get, what, a thousand miles? Something like that.

Yeah.

You don't then log into your account to try and figure out where you can fly to. Right. That's not enough miles. You gotta, like, go somewhere else. You gotta collect them up over a span of time. Then eventually you get enough miles. Now you're like, okay, let me cash them in. Go somewhere interesting. And that's what we can do with our ideas. Right. We don't have to find relevance in every idea in every moment. We can collect them and save them. And over time, when you start putting those pieces together, really interesting things come out.

Yeah, I was also thinking, like, you know, as an entrepreneur. So I've been an entrepreneur for, gosh, 30 years, give or take. Started my first company from literally scratch of a trash pile and built it and sold it last year, or exited last year, I should say. And one of the things that I always did differently, that I felt like gave me an edge in the marketplace, was something I'd heard it was a long time ago, 10 years ago. Another thought leader, I think was Dave Ramsey, called an idea folder. And so I began to actually do essentially a note. You grab your iPhone, you know, if you will, or whatever phone device you have, and you create on your notes page or whatever, an idea file, a folder. Because one of the things I've discovered that high achievers, especially entrepreneurs, business owners, people in that category, is they have an idea about every five seconds. Like, you know, it could be a great one, it could be a terrible one. In fact, I think most of the ideas I have, I've just survived, honestly. But that little folder helped me come back to create new innovations. It may not be, you know, a week from now or a month from now or two, you know, two months from now, but a lot of times, some of the greatest innovations, it's like the. The idea wasn't ready to get like, wasn't ready for. To give birth, if that makes any sense, you know, and six months later, it might be a better time for that idea to give birth. What kind of mechanism do you use to kind of capture ideas so you don't let a good, a great idea pass you by so you have time to evaluate it?

Yeah, so I do. I mean, I take voice notes to myself, which are all in a. In a single kind of note place on my phone. So I do that. I use a couple apps to save stories. But like you said, I mean, idea folder. Like, I'm sitting here in my office, like, I'll show you. Like this. Yeah, like, this is my idea folder. Like, it's a folder and it's got like a ton of magazine articles. And if you're listening to the podcast, I just showed, like a big yellow folder with.

And it's. And it's also brand yellow, by the way. It's. It's on brand yellow. Yeah.

Which was actually not on purpose, but I'll take it.

But the idea is like, we're always saving these ideas, and what the really successful people are able to do is recall those moments, recall those things. And what the less successful people do is have great ideas and then forget them.

Yeah.

Which is not a good way to go.

No, it's not. I was also thinking of James Altucher. He's up in the New York area. He calls him. He calls some, Some ideas happy little accidents. But it takes curiosity to understand the meaning behind a happy little accident, if that makes any sense. And I know curiosity is super important to your formula as well, you know, so for more observant, you know, let's say we observe, I don't know, X, Y and Z. You know, and a lot of times I think you have like, almost like your eye balance rate. Right. You know, maybe you have an idea. In fact, I would say this, I would say it this way. I know there's people on the planet, they get really upset with themselves because they invented something that they never actually invented, but somebody else went and invented it. Does that make sense? So, like, you know, call it. Maybe we'll use a toothpick, for example. Somebody invented a toothpick. And some guys, some old guys say, I should have done that. I've been picking my, you know, picking my teeth with a stick for a while, you know, kind of thing. And, you know, when I, when I think about that, let's say you observe something that could be improved upon or something that could be innovated or Whatever. How do you approach it? With curiosity to really get the best bang for your buck or really the benefit from it?

Well, you talked about benefit, right? And a lot of people think, okay, you're walking past all these things, you have these big ideas and you could launch a business or a product or something out of them and then you see somebody else do it and you're like, oh, I missed out. Like I should have done that. Right. But like, maybe not. I mean, maybe you would have tried to launch that business and really suffered. Maybe that wasn't the thing you wanted to do.

Yeah, right.

And so the outcome of it, I would argue, is not just profit or launching the thing. Like sometimes the outcome is that it changes the way you think. Sometimes for me as a writer, the outcome is a great article that I can put out into the world or that I can write about or something I can talk about on stage. That's a great outcome for me.

Yeah.

So you gotta know, like, what's the outcome for you? Like, maybe it's a great story that you tell at a party and that's your outcome.

Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. You know, just thinking about, thinking kind of through that, like, I don't know that most of us are self aware enough.

To really be able to take an idea or a pattern, a pattern recognition or you know, being observant about something we can improve upon or and apply just to kind of like you just mentioned, like, hey, this, this idea now becomes a piece of content that now can transform a life in some way, shape or form. I feel like again, I feel like most people are sleepwalking, right? So how do we wake them up to put what you teach actually into practice? Because if they're sleepwalking through life, I mean the ideas are just flowing. I forgot how many ideas or you know, mental images that, you know, the. I think the subconscious mind actually talks, if I'm not mistaken in the pictures and images. Like it doesn't really use talking in words from my understanding, like, but I feel like most of us, it doesn't matter what level of life we're at, most of us are sleepwalking. And the truly successful people that, that I've seen, and I know you've mentioned this already, is like they have the ability to have a pattern recognition, they have the ability to be a bit more observant. You know. Do you think that is a skill set that can be trained? Do you think that's a skill set that you're born with? Because I feel like it's like a, it's a little bit of all kind of all the above.

Yeah, it's totally a skill set you can learn. So here's a very practical way to do it, right? When you see something that is interesting and we see this sort of stuff all the time, you don't need intellectual training to find things interesting. Say you find a product or you find something happening and you're like, oh, that's really interesting. You ask yourself a couple of questions about it. Why do I find it interesting? Who would hate this? Is there some way that someone could do this better? Does this relate to something that I seen before? Is this brand new? If I had to describe this to someone who couldn't see it, how would I describe it? Right? These are the sorts of questions that we can ask ourselves to give ourselves a perspective on it, right? Because like having ideas gets a lot of attention, but like having a perspective, having a point of view doesn't get as much attention. But the really interesting people have something to say. They don't just say the same thing as everyone else. And I think about this a lot when it comes to the non obvious perspective, right? So there was a story that came out about the new CEO of Starbucks and he was like the guy who was at Chipotle, they moved him over to Starbucks and they said, as part of your move over to Starbucks, like you want to keep living in California, our office is not there. So we're going to give you a private jet. You can fly back and forth whenever you want. And everyone's like, what an asshole. How would he like go back and forth with his private jet? Doesn't he see the climate crisis? Doesn't he see all these problems? And, and I'm looking at all this negativity and I write a post and I'm like, you know, this guy apparently did a great job at Chipotle. His employees loved him, he turned the business around, he was super successful. Compare that to people like Adam Newman, the WeWork guy, who are like total assholes. They fail constantly and yet they continually get new chances to fail over and over again and waste money and you know, and basically get people fired. And yet they continue to get new chances. And here's a guy who actually did something good and now he's getting a great role. Who cares about the plane? Let him fly back and forth. If he's gonna treat people well and do a good job, what's wrong with that? And nobody was saying that, right? So part of the challenge, I think for all of us is what is the thing everyone else is saying? And then authentically, I'm not saying make up because like contrarian, but like if you authentically think something that's a little bit different, put that up.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's important. I think the vast majority of the people in the world are. That's a very vague, a very generalized statement. Let me say it this way. I think there's a, there is a stressor to sharing your perspective, whether you've really, well thought through it or not thought through it from a place in the, you know, in, in the social media world, for example. You know, I think it's almost like we're more scared of creating a new space or creating an idea or sharing a perspective or sharing an understanding that could be by some experience as wisdom where others are just, they cannot hold it in. It's like, well, somebody else is. Somebody else should say that or somebody else should put that thought out there. And how do we encourage people to actually be more authentic and actually really take their perspective and really, actually have an authentic voice with everything?

I mean, what you really come down, coming down to is confidence, right? Do you have the confidence to say what you really think or are you too afraid of what people might say? Yeah, you did that.

Yeah.

Right. And can we teach confidence? I mean, sure. Confidence comes from experience. Right. It comes from having positive reinforcement. And so if we want people to be more confident in their opinions, then we have to choose to be the sorts of people that don't tear someone down because they disagree with us.

Yeah, right.

I mean, that's the kind of world we all can shape.

Yeah, no, that's so true. I was also thinking too, like, you know, one of your other pillars that I, that I've heard you mentioned before, is this the importance of being thoughtful. Like, so you, you've been observant, you've been curious, but then there's the thoughtful approach. I, it's almost like the. Sometimes I see people that are communicating ideas and perspectives that really haven't been thoughtful. You know, they're just kind of like it's top of mind they blurted out. And sometimes it can do a lot of damage rather than a lot of good. Do you find that the approach of really kind of processing through your idea because it sounds, you know, from everything I know about you, you spend a lot of time really thinking through your concepts, your ideas, and really trying to make sure you're communicating to the betterment of humanity, no matter the concept. You're sharing how much of that is coming down to that, that really, that like really thinking about, hey, is this the most thoughtful approach to, you know, taking this idea to market? This new obvious way of, or non obvious way of thinking is. Is how important is that? I guess in that. In that. In the journey of someone communicating.

Well, I think you can. It's entirely possible. And I had to learn this actually the hard way when I was teaching some of these methods.

That you can quickly veer from being thoughtful to overthinking everything. And that's not what I hope people do. But I think being thoughtful to me means taking a second thinking about the perspective you want to offer and then asking yourself one really important question. And the really important question is, am I saying something actually meaningful or am I just bullshitting? And most of thoughtful commentary is not bullshit.

Yeah.

And yet sometimes we easily veer into bullshit because it's simple.

And so we have to catch ourselves.

I'm so glad you said that because again, I'm trying to find you're so talented in so many different ways, especially when it comes to thought leadership and kind of helping people understand how to take.

A different approach to life. Really. It's not just a different approach to business or marketing or sales. It's a. It's an approach to life. From what I can tell, at least outside looking in, that's. That's my. Been my experience. It's like you can take all the principles and some of the fundamentals you're teaching and apply them pretty much to any area of your life just by slowing things down a little bit. And when I'm looking at that as a. As a trend, if you will, I'm seeing a lot more as we're heading into 2025 specifically, it seems to me that there's been a lot more people who have moved away from the guru mindset of just kind of repeating, regurgitating and stuff like that and really starting to identify and really kind of lean into guides like yourself who are actually generally trying to help people along the way. And when they do that, they're learning principles of lifestyle more than they are just principles of business, principles of sales, or principles of marketing and things of that nature, you know. So when you're actually pulling all that together, what is the impact that you're really trying to do? Especially with the book and everything else you're doing with keynoting and all? I mean, you're doing 40 some events a year minimum. Right. And you're traveling all over the place what is your why? I guess is what I'm getting at. What is your why is this, why is this so important to you? Why do you feel like it's so vital to the marketplace?

I think we all need reminders, but also inspiration to be the best, most thoughtful versions of ourselves. Yeah. And when it comes to events, one of the things I love about events, especially live events. Right. Is that people are in a moment in time professionally when they are not at work, they're not around the same people they always are. They're ready for new ideas, they're open to learning something different. So it's a perfect mindset to try and capture someone at and give them something that could help them think a little bit bigger. I do think that if we had a world where there were more non obvious thinkers, people who were unafraid to question their own assumptions, we'd have more acceptance among people. We'd have less division.

Yeah.

We'd have less people being like, I'm right, you're wrong. Yeah, we just have more of an open minded culture and I think that's a good thing. So like my big why is like to try and do my part to create more of a culture like that. And on a micro level, it's that the people that I get to meet do I have a chance to try and impact them in some way by being a good listener, by learning something new and by doing all of these things to try and always be learning myself. Because if I do that, then I can accomplish something that I think all of us want, which is that I become a more interesting person. Like I can talk to anyone now about any topic, any industry because I've spent time talking to someone who probably works in that space, who probably has that type of lifestyle, who probably lives in that country and, and that's a beautiful thing. Like not everybody has the opportunity to do that.

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And actually listen to the ideas around the table right from. From a. In a really open place. Because you can ask, you know, I think your team understands when you're actually going into that boardroom, if you will, no matter how big or small the boardroom is and you're actively wanting to hear their ideas versus, well, share me your idea just so I can say I heard your idea, right? There's a difference in that and like, no, really share, you know, and it seems like listening is a, is a crazy, like it's. Listening is an underrated. Underrated skill that makes any sense.

Well, not only is underrated, I think that we get a lot of bad advice on how to listen. Right. Because we hear cliches like, oh, you've got two ears and one mouth, so just shut up. And like, you know, that's more, that's better, right? Yeah, but real great active listening is not about shutting up. It's about listening and asking questions that clarify what someone is meaning to say and demonstrate that you are listening to them and understanding them and sharing their perspective and taking their perspective as much as you can. And that doesn't mean that you just sit there and let them talk for as long as they want to talk, because that's not great listening. That's just shutting up, which is also good. Like some people just need to shut up. Okay. But there's a difference between that and active listening.

Yeah. Well, how do, how do you practice active listening in your professional career where it gets the most value to the folks that are kind of, you know, that you're obviously listening to and then obviously, how do you take that, what you hear and then shape your own ideas from it?

Well, I do something that I think you do really well also, as anyone who interviews people and does it well, which is that I do what journalists call. I ask storytelling questions.

Okay. Yeah.

Basically a question that will elicit a story. It's not a yes or no question. It's not a closed question. It's open ended. And it will inspire someone to share something on a little more deeper of a level.

Yeah, no, that's the technique.

That's it. I mean, it's not complicated.

Well, and the crazy part is when you, when you do that, and thank you for saying that, by the way, when you do that, not only do you get to get understanding, you also get another person.

Right.

Like, because they're sharing us, they're sharing something from history. Right. You know, some, some memories, some, some whatever that kind of gives you more insight into who they are. You know, one of the other killers that I, that I love so much, and I'm a big believer that's actually one of our core values, unstoppable solutions as a, as a, as a company is the power of focus. Like being focused on the right thing at the right time in the right way. Which I think in a world of noise, it's really hard to determine what to focus on. You know, when we're looking at the way in which you use focus and non obvious thinking. How do you see focus and how do you see the line and benefit, you know, everybody at the table, even yourself? How do you. In other words, how do you know what to focus on in the right time and space?

Well, I think there's a couple of different dimensions of it for me. So one is conversationally, when I am talking to someone, I'm focused on them. I've made it a commitment that I'm not looking at my phone, I'm not checking my messages, I'm not looking around for something else. I am 100% in on that conversation. So human to human focus is like one big thing. The other aspect of focus that I think a lot of us worry about is am I focused enough to do my work or am I constantly getting distracted? Am I trying to multitask?

Yeah, yeah.

And to me that's a combination of blocking time to focus on something that requires focus and understanding myself in terms of when I am more optimal doing certain things. So I write in the mornings and I write late night. When I'm writing, I would never try and write between the hours of like 4 and 8pm yeah. Because it would be useless. I would just stare at the screen. It would be a pointless exercise. So I. Even if you said to me, okay, let's focus on this at this time, that time doesn't work for me.

Yeah. What's crazy, we know what's crazy about that is I think we all have our own little equilibrium of when the best time to focus is, you know, so if, you know, if your win is, you know, from four to eight, for example, mine, you know, I'm kind of like you. I write in the morning. First thing I do in the morning is I, I journal. And as a person of faith for some, I just started doing this probably three and a half months ago. But I've got some of the most profound insights I've ever gotten, which is the assumption that there's a, there's a greater power who's always talking and I wasn't listening. So I wake up every morning and I have this journal session. I call it what I hear you say is. And all I do is I write that I write the date, what I hear you say is. And I write whatever I think I hear. And some really profound stuff comes out of that. And at the end of the day I will focus on writing a bit more of.

I guess, me talking to the divine, if that makes any sense.

Yeah. So Is that a, is that like a one time thing during the day for you or do you revisit that like, later on?

Well, it's been both. So there's been, so there's been, there's been elements like in the, in the morning time when I'm, when I hear you say is, and at the end I call it talking with God. So it's like, that's my bookend. So the day. Right. I will often go back and review either one of those, especially if there's a divine insight that seems like it's, it's something to pay attention to. So I'll give you an example. Over the last two months, you know, there's been a little bit of personal life stuff happening. And I'm navigating that while trying to obviously build a business and build, you know, have a show up really well for podcasts, all this kind of stuff. And in this particular category, the, what I heard you say was, had nine different things in it with dates, times, and.

Kind of like what to look for. And in all nine interactions, the date and the time and the thing came to pass, which blew my mind because I wasn't expecting that. Right. You know, I just did it. I just kind of did it on faith. Right. The talking with God concept at the very end of the day is much more of me sharing my heart. So then I can go back over 10, 12, 15 days and see my own journey of how I'm, I'm transforming, if you will. One of my somatic coaches that I use to, to help, you know, try to fine tune any kind of, you know, former traumas and stuff, because I had a difficult upbringing.

He's constantly telling me, because, dude, you're so much further than you think you are. Like, we'll get on, we'll get on a coaching call. And I'm, he's like, I'm like, nah, da da da. He's like, dude, seriously, you're like a whole lot further than you think you are. And the only way I can benchmark whether or not I am actually further ahead or behind is being able to go back and look at those writings to see where I was mentally, emotionally, spiritually, even physically, in some cases, in that, in that genre, in that, in that part of the journey, you know, So I, I say all that to say that that helps me learn a bit of a focus. It also helps me understand patterning, you know, so when I hear you say you also have a morning practice and a end of the day practice, whether it's writing a new book or jotting down new ideas or concepts or journaling or whatever you do for that. Concepts. I find that that's really interesting because I believe you can't innovate ideas you can't capture.

Yeah. And we also can't build a future that we can't imagine. We do a lot of talking about the future and what the future is going to look like. And we may not all be inventors coming up with the next big thing. We all have a capacity to shape the future in terms of what we choose to support or try or beta test or talk about or amplify in whatever way we can.

Yeah.

And that's so interesting because, I mean, I love that process that you're going through, because what it gives you this really defined moment to do, which not a lot of people take, is what did I think? How did that impact what happened? And then what would I do differently?

Yeah.

Which is a really logical flow, but we don't give ourselves enough space to do that. And your daily action of doing this journal and of taking that time and being intentional and tying it into your faith is like a perfect example of trying to ground that in your life, no matter what else is going on.

Yeah.

You know, even when you're dealing with tough personal things, which we all do at some point.

Sure.

Have something that you can still come back to, which is so important.

Yeah. Man. I thank you for saying that, by the way, honestly, because it's been a. It was a practice. I started by osmosis. It was one of, you know, you're have. I'm in this case. I had a really, really difficult transition. I wasn't expecting and just really sat down and just wanted to get it out. Right. So. And that started the process. And then I found it a bit to be a bit both therapeutic and innovative, if you will, as the. As the days progressed, you know. So I thank you for saying that because I feel like that is a process that we all could do if we would just sit and be present. And, you know, when you talk about obviously being present on a podcast or being present with the audience or being present when you're writing, it's all presentness. And I have a hard. My son told me this. My oldest son told me this probably three years ago. He said, you're. You're a fantastic father. You are a fantastic husband, but if there's one thing you can do differently, Just one thing. He said if you could learn to be more present when you're present.

Wow.

Right. And there was. It's changed my life. And now I'm, like, super hyper focused on being present in the moment with no dings, no distractions. I was asked recently, you know, the. The last company I built, I built to a sizable revenue amount. They're. And they're like, well, why don't you go build another one just like it? And, you know, with this revenue amount, I was like, I have to have a why. Right. And I also want to make sure I don't. I don't use that business, if you will, as a distraction from the things that really matter to me now that I have some, you know, some financial stewardship and, you know.

Blessing, I guess you could call it, you know, kind of thing. So how do you balance kind of how your approach. I mean, you're traveling and speaking. You've been a very successful author, very successful in your own right. How do you balance yourself in, you know, using your process to kind of keep yourself holistically grounded and anchored and things of that nature?

Well, I think one aspect of your question is, is just the balance between being in a traveler and always going to these places and being home enough for kids and to be part of the family and to be at things that are important. And so some of it is just doing some crazy stuff, like going to Brazil for six hours and coming back because I didn't want to miss a soccer game, you know, kids soccer game. So, like, sometimes you do that, and people are like, you did what? Like, I'm like, yeah, I just took a backpack because I wasn't actually staying overnight. I was just literally flying and doing my thing.

Yeah.

So sometimes it's that. I think sometimes it is actually the idea that you can balance these. You can balance these things by being present in the moment for the people that you're with.

Yeah.

At that moment. And then present for your family when you're back with your family in that moment and not feeling that guilt that often comes with not being especially near kids or your kids whenever, you know, whatever. My kids are a little older now. Like, one's in college and one's almost in college. But, you know, especially when they're younger, like, you kind of feel, like, what your son said to you. Right. Like, you feel it, like, in your heart, you're like, oh, man. Like, and then you're just like, okay, I want to. I want to be there. But then you. You get. You get similar stories from the people that you're impacting elsewhere where they say, look, I saw you do this. Thing or. Like, there was a young man that I met in an event, and he. I could tell he really wanted to tell me about his thing. He had a startup, and he wanted to tell me about it. But, you know, you. After you talk, like, you know, you have a lot of people coming up to you, so it's kind of hard to take a concentrated amount of time with someone said, look, just hang out for a while. Like, I'll talk to everybody, and then, you know, I'll be happy to talk to you once the crowd kind of dies down. Okay. He hung out for a while, but then somebody else came along. We went somewhere else, and he came with us, and every place that we went, there was always someone else coming.

Sure.

Right. And so I felt bad, right, because this poor guy was, like, waiting to talk to me. And at the end of that, he said, I just want to say thank you. And I said, but we didn't get a chance to talk, like, at all. He said, no, we didn't. But for the last two hours, I've been with you in every single new group that came up. You introduced me as your friend, and I got to meet all of these people, and I felt included the whole time because every time we went somewhere, you introduced me as your friend, even though we just met.

Yeah.

And I thought, you know, that wasn't something I thought about, but it made a huge difference to him.

Yeah.

I was feeling guilty because we didn't have that. He didn't have a chance to tell me about his thing. Right. It's like, hang out, hang out. And then pretty soon, two hours later, you're like, oh, you're still hanging out. Like, I'm sorry. Right?

Yeah. Dude, that's such a beautiful.

That impact, right? Sometimes.

No, it's such a beautiful story, and it's so true. I. I found myself doing that, too. I've. I've been late to things before because I was trying to help the person that was in front of me, you know? And sometimes those people had tears in their eyes. And then I get home, and sometimes my kids. My kids are older. Like, yours now are, too. I mean, all three of mine are adults. I actually just. I technically have two grandkids now, so actually, I have more. I have. I have more than that. I have three grandchildren that are born, one grandchild on the way, which is kind of nuts.

That is nuts. Wow. Congrats.

So, thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's so good, because I, you know, I've. I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel guilty or feel like. Or I'd say any. Anyone who is actually trying to make a difference, whether it's in the business or the marketplace or whatever, community or whatever. I think there always is a.

An emotion tied, an emotional tied of guilt that we're trying to overcome and trying to be kind of everywhere at once. And I love the fact that you're vulnerable about that because it's. Again, I think we all face it, if we're actually trying to get out there and do something in the world.

Yeah. Dude, that's such a good story. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. Seriously.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's felt like we always make this difference, right. We're like, oh, we're at work, so we're not, like, connecting and we're like, away from our family. But yeah, I mean, you get a chance. Like, I. I just love people. Like, you get a chance to make difference in people's lives and, you know, that's. That's cool. Like, we're lucky that way.

Yeah. Dude. So good. Well, I want to give. I want to give the audience a chance to grab the book. For sure. Not obvious thinking. We'll put all the show links and stuff they can get. Grab it. But on that topic, who did you write the book for? Like, who's it really? Like, when you think about the ideal reader, what are they. What are they facing right now? What is the shifts they need to make? Kind of like, you know, where do you see the book really helping them the most?

I would say, I mean, as a category, I kind of wrote this book for people who don't read business books. Okay.

Yeah.

And I say that because it's less than half the length of some of my other books. It's fully illustrated, so it's got a lot of pictures in it. Yeah. And it's very quick in the sense that, like, you could read one chapter that's three pages long and take away a hint, something to do differently. And, like, if you only get that one chapter and those three pages and that's all you ever read of the book. Okay. Like, if you got something useful out of it, like, that's fine. So who did I write it for? I wrote it for anybody who kind of feels like they're stuck a little bit, who wants to do more or be more or make a change or kind of have a different aspect of their life, but they're just feeling like they don't exactly know what to do. They don't exactly know what to do next. They're feeling overwhelmed maybe. And now they need inspiration. Yeah, I mean we all need inspiration, but they also need like some hard tactics, like what do I actually do right. Like in order to bring this sort of thinking into my life.

That's so good, dude. Yeah, no, I want to encourage everybody. Go grab the book. For sure. We'll make sure all the show links and stuff are there. I love the fact this quick read, I call it an airplane read. Like you can get on an airplane and you know, you're going, you know, east to west coast or east to Midwest.

Not even, man. You could go from D.C. to Chicago. You could slam through this book.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I like, I like so I like anything that's first thought in general. And I know, no, I do know that people that spend a lot of time in thought or sitting in quietness, you know, tend to have the best kinds of thought, you know. So I'll, I'll even today I'll probably spend another hour somewhere else today. I did a three mile hike through the woods today. There's a. In North Carolina, which is where I'm visiting family at right now. They have a park called the Umstead park. And it was really bizarre. Bizarre because I've never done a three mile walk between something like that before and basically been me trees and the divine. Basically. Right. And the types of things that were coming up and coming out were really powerful. And I know, I guess as we're kind of getting to the end, I wanted to kind of mention the importance that I know you're, that you've shared before about creating that space, to have that thought to, to kind of lean into that. I'd like you to talk a little bit about that because I find that that's a very profound thing that most people are not doing.

Yeah. I mean, what you just described, I mean that's a great way to create space because we need space in two ways. We need mental space. Right. Time to think where we don't have the distractions. We also need like physical space. Like if we feel like overcrowded with our stuff.

Yeah.

Or we're like just, you know, living on top of all of these things we don't need. Like then it's really hard to focus as well. So.

Yeah.

Physical space. You can find yourself by leaving your space. Like if it's too much work to clean out your closets and do the whole Marie Kondo thing, maybe find a, find a more empty coffee shop or something and just clear out. Right. Go somewhere else. Okay. Or Go to an Airbnb, for example.

Right. Yeah.

Or when it comes to mental space, I think that we all have to give ourselves some new ways to establish patterns for thinking. So, for example, one of the things we talk about in the book for creating space is breaking your habits. Because I think there's a lot of books and advice right now about what it takes to form good habits and break bad habits.

Yeah.

What people don't tell you is there's some value in breaking a good habit.

Yeah.

Because if you have a good habit for every morning, you also have a routine. Because a good habit becomes a routine.

Yeah.

When you have a routine, you can be stuck in a routine, and therefore it's difficult to think about anything different. So if you have a great morning routine, hey, good power to you. But maybe change it and do something totally different because it sends a signal to your brain that today's not like yesterday.

Yeah.

And that's a pretty awesome signal to send to your brain if you want a day where you're going to be doing things differently. So we have to intentionally create that.

Yeah. You know what comes top of mind for me for that is for almost 30 years, I was the most diligent person in the room. Always, like, head down, making it happen, you know, creating the. Basically trying to create the expectations or create the outcome that I wanted just by sheer diligence and work ethic. Right. That work ethic now, Right. In the new business creation kind of where I'm heading now is not as helpful as. Rather than trying to force something to existence, but actually letting something flow into existence. Right. So that time and space, this. This time, this creating space that you. You're so passionate about, that I think is amazing, is allowing for that flow to begin to slowly take shape and kind of overwrite the program of having to force it and create it and drive it and. And all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's. Look, it doesn't take special training to be able to do this. It just takes intention.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think. And that's another thing is I think the. The intentions we set for ourselves are. Is a byproduct of how awakened we are. Like, I. I think one of the things I'd love for the audience to take away from today from our conversation, there's a lot, actually, but one of the things is the ability to set aside, create the time for the, you know, to have these new ideas, these new concepts, determine what you need to focus on, determine what you need to get curious about, determine the intention you're setting behind it, you know, and you know, that's where I think, that's where I think enough of us aren't doing enough because we're not actually, we're not sitting with ourselves enough. A friend of mine would call it a new way of being, as strange as that sounds. I've never heard that. I had never heard that term. He said, he said, he said you're, he's just, you're not a human doing, you're a human being. So what is your way of being? And I just thought that was like really profound. I was like, how am I being like.

But also intimidating, right? I'm like, yeah, what am I like?

Dude, it wasn't, it was intimidating. In fact, I've been reflecting on it for three months now. Yeah. Trying to make sure that I'm being, if I, you know, in, in my case, all the divine wants me to be, right. Am I, am I being approachable? Am I being respectful? Am I being loving? Am I being character driven and integrity driven? Am I, am I creating my life through love? You know, and then what are my, all my little spider web ideas off of that? All of my little biases, all my understandings, you know, and that's why I was kind of excited about this conversation because really you can take everything that you're teaching and apply it to any area of life and say, what are the little spider webs? What are my intentions here? What are my perspectives? Are all that kind of stuff?

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a big part of it. But, but I, I, I do want to, I mean, it's really important to me that what people take away from this is that it doesn't need to be big, life changing and intimidating.

Yeah.

It can be small and daily and that's okay.

Yeah.

I think that injecting this way of thinking into every aspect of what we do, I mean, one of the things I talk about a lot is connecting with people and networking. And you know, the fact of networking is we all know that it's good to do, but we all hate it because it means that we gotta like be out there and be an alpha version of ourselves. And it's like tough, it's intimidating. Yeah. So one of the things I teach to people is I say you will transform your entire way of networking by asking people one question when you go to any networking event. Okay. And the one question is, what's something non obvious about you? Oh. And when they tell you that. Right. And when they are asked that question, now you're not learning about how many kids they have or where they live or what their job title is or any of that basic stuff. You're jumping to something next. And when they tell you what that non obvious thing is, now it's your job to ask them a storytelling question about it.

Yeah.

And that creates conversation, that creates connection. So you want to transform the way you operate. At a networking event, you could take lots of confidence classes, you could do all of these different things. You could do some training, you could, you know, find your inner being.

Yeah, right.

You could just change the question you ask people and say, what's something non obvious about you? And then have them ask you. That's it.

Yeah. Love it, man.

You know, I really try and boil this down to like, what can we really do? And how do we make it happen right away so we don't have to change our entire being? Like, hey, it's great if you go and find yourself and you do all that travel and you do the soul searching and you write the journals and you put in the work the way you obviously have to find the best version of yourself. Like, that's a great life journey to be on.

Yeah.

But there's also small things you can do along the way, and I want to be the champion of those small things.

Yeah, dude. I love it, man. I can't thank you enough for coming on the show, man. I really appreciate your big time. We'll make sure we put all the cool ways to connect with you. I do want to encourage everybody to grab the book as well as go see Roy actually speaking. He's got enough dates around the country that I'm sure you'll be able to find him sometime soon as we head into 2025. Thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate you big time.

Thank you. Thanks for the invite. I had a lot of fun.

Awesome. Well, take care. See you.

All right, thanks.

I hope you liked that video. And if you did, make sure you check out this next video right here.

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