The SECRET To Manifesting Success & Abundance TODAY! | Justin McRoberts

When I get to my end, then when I overextend myself, do I honestly believe that God is good enough to take care of me as I become the person I want to become?

Funny. You know, you hear this terminology. It is what it is consistently. And I know it drives you crazy. Why is that?

Because it's not the shape of the heart of God. That's just not how God does things. God did not look at the world and say, yeah, that's fine. God grabbed the world and. And made something. That's what he does. That's what God does. He creates constantly. And then when things go awry, God redeems. And then God forms like, there's no point at which. Like, the shape of the heart of God is to say we're good. No. The constant process of creation and renewal and rescue and redemption over and over and over again. So if I want to live well in the world, if I want to live well as a human being, if I want to live well as a person who is shaped into the likeness of. Of God, I don't get to say it is what it is. I get to say I have things that have been made available to me. Circumstances, talents, gifts, strengths, weaknesses. And then I get to make a decision about what I do with what I have on hand. If I want to look like God in the life I've been given by God, I don't get to say it is what it is. It's dangerous because it is ungodlike.

Well, when you look at everything, you know, you have this saying or this almost like, battle cry that you provide language and shape through the process of life.

Yes.

You know, and this book does a lot of that already tangibly. How did you discover that to begin with? Like, this is kind of like your call, and you're walking in.

Trial and error, man.

You and I have really similar story insofar as, like, you know, coming from circumstances that were not at all ideal. And then watching the folks around us, like, a few hero types, like you and I have similar story so far as, like, there are folks in our lives that, like, there aren't that many people who know this name, but that sister's a hero, that brother's a hero. Because I saw what you did with the little bit you had, and it inspired me to recognize that regardless of what I've been handed, I have this choice to make about what I've got on hand. So.

Coming to the knowledge was a matter of, like, I'm gonna try something, and then if it does not work. I'm not worse off. I'm not worse off than I was before, because you can't get lower than that. So it was honestly a matter of trial and error, which, like, again, you and I resonate with this. It's like, that's the actual process and practice of faith. It's like you don't get the assurance it's going to work out. What you get is the hope and the inspiration that you want to try and trust and then work it out on the backside.

Now, do you find that. I mean, I can only speak from my own personal experience. Experience. And obviously some of the audience that I'm very familiar with. Do you find it just. It takes time or some kind of catalyst in order to just have our hearts reopened to hope. Because, you know, when you've been walking in a hopeless state for so long, it almost becomes like second nature to you and you don't even realize you're doing it.

Yeah, it takes. It takes time. It takes a little bit of courage. And this is the tough part, right, is it actually usually takes someone else coming alongside. And so, like, some of what I try to do with what, with this book or with anything else I do, like, yeah, I want to encourage the folks who are down and out. I want to encourage the folks who, like, who are left with nothing, who've been broken in half.

Yeah.

In all honesty, though, the folks I'm really after are the folks that have something to offer those people. Because you're actually kind of a linchpin if you don't offer as little as you think you had. So let's go. So this is in. This is in the book, too. Like, if you wanted. If you're. This is Jesus. The disciples come to Jesus and he. And they're like, hey, all these cats are hungry and they've been following us around all day. And what Jesus doesn't say is like, yeah, it's a big old problem. I wouldn't imagine putting it on you guys, because, you know, that's a big problem, and I want you to feel responsible for it. What he does is say, yeah, there are like 5,000 hungry men here, which is like. So if you count women and children, like, seven to 10,000 people. He's like, so they're like seven to 10,000 hungry people here. What are you guys going to do about it? That's what Jesus says. And the disciples are like, what, bro? Like.

Maybe some mana.

I don't know, right? Like, we legit quit our jobs to follow you around the Desert. But what Jesus says is like, this is actually on you and I will help you do it. So give me what you have. And they figure out the little bit they have and then they hand it to Jesus who says thanks for it and then does miraculously more than they could possibly imagine with it. Like, there's this notion which, like, I want to speak to the folks who feel like you have, you don't have enough for the problems in front of you. I would actually suggest that instead of believing that way, like that's the world's informing you that you don't have enough. If you're looking at a problem in front of you, especially if it's been in front of you for a long time, it's possible, if not likely, that God put you there. And not because you are enough, but because God is enough. And your faith is expressing you saying, I don't think I've got enough to do this, but I'm gonna take the little I have, I'm gonna try to feed 10,000 people with it and see what Jesus does on the other side of it.

Yeah. I mean, it's funny, I think the. When we look at the world, the market, especially the American culture specifically, there is an element of constantly being reminded from the. From a marketing standpoint, you need this to make you happy. You need that to make you happy. You need this to feel secure. You need this to feel like you have self worth, self esteem, and the comparison disaster that comes with it. I mean, I would argue or even debate that in my time of just starting my first business, being able to look around you to see what's around you, because I started my first company with stuff literally out of the trash piles. Got me going. And then I think in the scriptures specifically, there's not word for word, but the way I look at it is if you're faithful with the little, you get made master over much. And that's been the story of my life.

Yes.

So when you decided to write it's what you make of it. Is that what you're kind of saying? You're just like, your life is not nowhere near as bad as you think it is. In fact, you got tons of opportunity.

Yeah. And in our context, like, if God is good the way we believe God is good, then your limitations are an invitation. The fact that you have an end.

Good. Get to that end. Like, encourage to get to the end of yourself so that grace can actually come in and bridge the gap between what it is, the desire of your heart, the desire of God for your life and what you think you can do. You don't actually get to experience that. Like the joy that you and I have in looking around at where we're at and looking at like what has been accomplished actually comes from. I know where my limit is. I'm going to get myself there. And when I get there, I'm actually, I'm going to take that next step. I off the ledge into the nothingness that I think is there and trust that God's going to do a thing. I actually don't get to experience that until I get to my actual edge, until I get to my actual limit and say I know there's more here and I know that I can't get to it. So you got to do a thing, Lord, in order for this to work the way it's supposed to. Like I get to have that joy because I got to my limit and then I pushed beyond it and let God pick up from there. That's exactly what I'm after is like, yeah, you don't. I want that full faith oriented life. I want that like glorious like graces enough life. But man, most of us just don't live there. Most of us play it safe. I don't, I don't. Most of us get to a point where like I don't need grace and mercy because I'm taking care of mine because I've done all the math and I know where my limits are. I'm going to.

Until you realize it can all be snaked away from you in a heartbeat and exactly. Which I've done three times.

Same. Same.

Yeah. You know when you've written so many other amazing books, why is this the message and why is this the time for the message to actually get out here?

Because of the moment we're in and you just got to it.

So I coach a lot of artists and pastors. It's what I do with most of my time now is I spend time. I was just before this call, I was in call with two pastors and three artists. Most of my morning. Sure. And everything for the most part the folks have built some of these folks, some of these cats have been at it for like 15, 20 years. And as of March last year, everything was taken away, gone like that. Yeah. I personally watched and again things. These are not conversations to have with everybody but like, you know this feeling like I personally, like between the beginning of March and the middle of March, it took you like altogether about 10 or 12 days. I literally watched every dollar I knew for Sure. I going to get the entire year go away. Gone.

Yeah, it's gone.

This, this moment we have that we're in, like, this is like. It's not like there was the pandemic and there was a shutdown and now it's over and it's gone. No, no, this is going to last a minute. And some of the things we left, some of the things that we lost aren't coming back. So if you're a pastor, if you're a person who runs a church, there's a lot about what it looks like to run a church you're not going to get back. And I'm not saying like next year or the year after. No, no, Brother sister is gone. It is gone. Gone. And like, what you cannot count on is the formula. What you cannot count on is what was done 45 years ago when evangelical Christianity was ruling America. No, no, what you can count on is Christ in you, the hope of glory. If that is not your bet, if you're not placing all your chips on Christ in you, then you're actually going to miss over the next 10, 15, 20 years. So this book is important now because so much about what we thought so much about, so much about how we thought life was supposed to work just won't because it was taken away. It can be taken away and it will happen again. Bank on Christ in you or it will be taken away, period.

Well, when you look at the whole thing, you know, there's. There's been a lot that's obvious to happen over the last couple years, but I was at a. Another event. I was listening to Sean Bowles speak for a few minutes, and he was talking about somebody on his team had done a study. And on the study, one of the greatest arguments against God's existence and his glory in front of us is the simple fact that we have world hunger. We've got world, this world, this world, this world, this. Sean said there was a study done and he obviously referenced the story that said there was enough wealth in the body of Christ, meaning anyone who professes to be a Christian at any level to solve every single major crisis that we say we want. So we're meanwhile, we're people going, God, please, God, please, God, please, God, please. And I feel like he's like, I did, I did.

I gave it to.

You're not being fake a little.

Yeah, I gave it to you. And you squirreled it away. And there's a bit of a judgment here, and it's not my judgment. This is like, look, the judgment wrought upon the lives of 15 year old kids who don't know where their next meal is coming from. That's where the judgment is. I'm not judging you. I'm saying like the fact that there is world hunger, like that's not evidence that God is not good. That is evidence that we have not used well what we have been given. There is more than enough wealth in just the American church, period. That and again, stuff you and I know, the average church sees roughly somewhere between like 2 and 12% of their population. 2 and 12% of the average congregation actually tithes. Yeah, somewhere between 2 and 12%. So if there are a hundred people in your congregation and you're killing it, 12 of that hundred people are actually tithing regularly. And of that 12 people, like half of them are only tithing between like 5 and 7%. Like the numbers of people who are actually tithing up to 10%, like is so incredibly like we're not actually doing with what we've been given what God asked us to do when he gave.

Well, and I think part of that comes down to when, you know, there's a, there's an alright. So I ran into a gentleman recently and we got into conversation about God. He was an agnostic by nature. He's like, look, I believe there's something, I don't know what it is. You know, I've looked at Allah, I've looked at Buddha, I've looked at Jesus, I've looked at all these, you know, all these different, you know, quote unquote paths as he referred to it. He said, the only reason I haven't leaned into Christianity, unfortunately is because of Christians.

And that really hurt my heart. But then I began to digest what is a Christian supposed to be? A Christian is supposed to be someone who's been giving a gift, like the talent story in the Bible, who then scales what they've been given over and over and over again. And out of that comes the abundance of the overflow that then solves the other needs. And Jesus was very particular when he was with the Sadducees, or he actually was actually telling the story to the disciple about the Sadducees and the Pharisees going up to give their tithe and all their beautiful dressings and how the W who gave all of what she had, which is very little mites, exactly meant a whole lot more to God than God's heart. And I think there's a lot we can learn from this, which is one of the reasons why I was so Excited to see this book come out, or I know it's coming out in June, but see it come around because I think people have lost sight of the fact that they have a greater power within them than they're currently leveraging to use for, like, any kind of, like, world commitment.

Yes.

So.

So in other words. So the tail end of that for me is my generosity has to be predicated on the goodness of God rather than the problem at hand. In other words, like, is God good enough to do in my life? What would be required in order for me to live the way I want to? Right. Like, do you want. This is the thing is, like, the thing we say about. The thing we hear about Christians. You and I hear the same thing. Like, I pastored a church for 20 years.

Yeah.

I live in Northern California. I hear a whole lot about, like, what Christians aren't. And I don't disagree with most of it. I'm like, I get it. Like, I'm with these cats. I get it. So this whole, like, how. But then I'm with my congregation. I'm like, do you want to be generous? Everyone wants to be generous. Do you want to be forgiving? Everyone wants to. Do you want to look like Jesus? Everyone wants to look like Jesus. Okay, the trick then isn't a matter of, like, is the problem big enough to inspire me to. To do what is necessary? The trick is, do I honestly believe that God is good enough? That when I get to my end, then when I overextend myself, do I honestly believe that God is good enough to take care of me as I become the person I want to become? As I decide? Like, I actually want to live like Jesus. I want to love like Jesus. I want to give like Jesus. If I do that, the thing that keeps me from doing this, I'm afraid of what I will lose if I do. Rich young, you, ruler, do I trust the goodness of God to actually do something on the other side of that risk and of that faith? That's the actual risk. That's the actual problem.

Yeah. I mean, it's the rich young ruler, right? Come and you sell off everything you own and give it to the poor and then come follow me. Well, I can. I got too much.

Bro said, nah.

Yeah, I'm good. Keep it.

I'll bank. And what he said and what he says in doing that is like, I will continue to bank on my own efforts. I'll continue to bank on my own math. And what he didn't bank on, what he didn't bank on was the desire that led him to Jesus in the first place and said, hey, I think you've got something else. And Jesus said, no, I do, but you've got to let go of this stuff in order to get it. He's like, yeah, but I'm not gonna. Okay, then.

You know, it's so interesting with. I mean, the COVID experience has been so hard on so many people. Right. It's affected everybody in some way, shape or form. Some at very, very difficult levels, including complete loss, some at, you know, financial strain, relational strain. All of a. You had happy marriages. All of a sudden became a little less happy because they're spending so much time together, all this kind of stuff. But one of the things I used to hear about people for tithing and giving is like, look, I'm tired of building buildings. I'm tired of doing this. No one's feeding the poor. No one's doing this kind of thing. And with the COVID thing. And again, this might be a touch controversial. We don't have to dig into it deep, but it seems like God actually took the very thing that we relied upon from us and said, now what? Now let's see what you can do, homie.

I buy that a hundred percent.

Yeah.

Like the stuff like, like, I love, I love the church, like in the, in the capital T, capital C sense.

Yeah.

I also really love local churches. And like, I'm not like, you know, I'm a. I'm a west coast guy. Like, I was born and raised. I didn't, Wasn't raised a Christian. So like, I came into the church with the note, like, how do you get to 500? Some on denominations like, I don't understand, but I haven't. I have not one time in the last 25 years that I've been doing what I do, traveling the country. I've been to every state. I've been to like 14 different countries. Like, I have not been in a local congregation that I did not like, love in some way. Like, I love the church and I love churches. I really do.

The ball game ends up being in those particular places, among those particular people. Are we actually leaning into the character of Christ.

As a collection of people? Are we actually doing this in a way that looks and feels like Jesus? So the thing about, like, just as a simple example, and I get it, like, this is not everything, but it's 10 o' clock on a Sunday morning for 90 minutes, homie. That's cool. I'm glad that that worked from 1930, some odd to Whenever. But there's nothing in any of the scriptures, nowhere even close. Says, like, it's got to be 10 o' clock or 9 o' clock on a Sunday. And you've got to start with a song and then another song and then some announcements and that your preacher's got to preach for 35 minutes to 45 minutes. There's nothing, there's nothing in the text about that. And God seems to have said, you're relying so heavily on the machinery you built. Let's find out what happens. You don't have that. And more to the point, if I take that away from you, when I take that away from you, will you trust and we'll come all the way back to it. Will you trust Christ in you? The hope of glory. I get it. Y' all had a million dollar budget. I totally understand how cool that was. But that's nothing like trusting the spirit of Jesus in lives of people in relationship to other people. We have to actually do the thing that we've been talking about for all these years. If I'm with you 100%, I think it was taken away. I don't think God was like, here's a pandemic. Here's it like. But I think in the moment, God was like, all right. I'm like, what's it look like for you to be you in me with all the stuff, without all the stuff you think makes it possible?

Yeah, no more designer shoes. Like, you know, it's funny.

I have a heart for people, always have. I have my own sacrifice and suffering moments and gone through several crushings that have got me to this place. And God willing, I have a little more time before I have to go through another crushing. I'm sure he's got more in store for me so he can continue to work out his glory. That being said, as we begin to look at this entire environment, how do we shift the mindset to the people directly to let them know it's what they make of it?

Yeah, man. As leaders, we confess our limitations and our failures. Like, that's where we start. Like, right. Like you and I both, like, I began with a confession of the place I'm at. This is where I'm at. I know where I'm at.

I know where I'm starting from. We have to begin with a confession of the place we are, which is to say we have to come to Jesus and go back to the feeding of the 5,000, 4,000.

The literal come to Jesus moments.

The literal come to Jesus moment. We're like actually in one.

We have to actually come to Jesus and say, hey, this is what we thought we were doing missionally, this is what we thought we were doing institutionally. And what we really have on us is we have like a few loaves and a little bit of fish. And we're looking at the mission and we're looking about the. And we're looking and like we have to confess. I do not have on hand enough to do what I had planned on doing. I know that I don't, I don't have enough for what's in front of me. And I have to bring that to Jesus.

And that's the first step. The second step is to actually lean into like the frustration and the sadness that comes with that. It's like all the self help, whatever stuff in the world. Like, you know, homie, you're not enough. You're actually not. And if you believe that you are with all your training, like you're going to miss the moment. You're. This isn't a matter of like just what you have on hand because you don't have enough on hand. You also are not enough. You're just not. So confess that you don't have enough, confess that you are not enough and then lean into the actual story that you've been preaching or believing all the way up till now and decide that this is actually going to be true. So the story.

This is like this actually in the book. This is from a couple years ago. We, the place I'm living in now, we moved here and I jog a bunch and I found not too far from here there's this park. It's a cool park, but my favorite part of the area is like, this is the space between the parks where there's like a series of trails and when it rains. Talk about a metaphor. When it rains and the water rises, there's a place on the trail that you cannot, well, I cannot cross because I'm. I'm five six in Scotch Irish, I'm five five.

I got you.

So I would come to that point of the trail and either I would have to decide that I'm just going to get my feet super wet and sloggy and gross, or I would just turn around, head home because the river was too high or the water was too high. So this particular day I'm driving along and I come upon this part in the trail where the water is too high because it's rained and somebody had built a bridge and this is like a mile into the park. This isn't, like, right off the road. This is like a mile in. And it's like a bridge. Bridge. It's like seven or eight feet across. It's a nice arch. I was like, whoa. This is like a bridge Bridge, Yeah. So I run home and tell my wife all about it. We go out, three or four days later, it's gone. And she's like, I thought you said there was a bridge here. I'm like, no, I promise you, it was a bridge here. And as we look around, there are shards and pieces. Like someone else had come along and destroyed this thing. They had ruined it, torn it to shreds. And it's all over the place. There's wood with nails in it all over the place. And I'm like, sad. And then that's. That is, like. It is what it is moment. Right. Like, devastation comes along, things get destroyed. This is the pandemic. Things come along and take away what we built. So maybe a week or so later, it's rained again. I'm jogging along. I come to that point, I'm expecting that I'm going to have to turn, you know, turn around, go home. And there's another bridge.

Yeah.

Whoever had built the first bridge came back and built the second bridge. And they didn't just build it like, new. They actually took pieces. Because I could see, like, it's wood from the old bridge that they had, like, reassembled.

Yeah.

The same into this new bridge. Yeah. I was like, that's awesome. That's amazing. And you would think that that's a good enough place to stop the story, but the reality is, it's like, three days later, someone. I came back and the bridge was gone again. Another time, gone. Jeez. And I look up, I look up the creek, and because this one is built the way it was built, this person, because they couldn't tear it apart, they dragged it up the creek and, like. And dropped it, like, 400ft up. So as I'm standing there looking at my situation, what I recognize is this.

I've been bearing witness. This is actually, like, the actual prophetic moment of this conversation I've been bearing witness to. I've been telling stories about this battle between good and evil for a really long time, but I had actually no real stake in the game. I only had benefit. I would only benefit from someone else doing something about it. And now I had a choice because that bridge was 400ft up the creek.

Yeah.

So the choice was, am I actually going to get myself dirty, get involved here? Am I actually going to take a risk and get into the mud and the slog? Am I going to put my time and energy and my muscles into this thing or not? And the answer as a Christian is like, yeah, bro, like, here's your shot. You don't get to just hear stories of kids starving to death. You don't just get to hear stories about people who don't know the Lord. You don't get to just hear the stories and entertain what it looks like for the world to go back and forth. No, no, no. It's time for you to get in neck deep. And so I hiked myself up and I grabbed this bridge. It took me like 45 minutes or so back to where it was and prop it up. Right. But, like, the decision I make then is to enter into this story and say, like, here's what I've got. I don't know how to build a bridge.

I don't know how to fix a broken bridge. What I have is I do have the time, the energy, and I have the investment. So I'm going to take what I've got on hand. I'm going to take the opportunity I've got. I'm going to get all the way into this thing and evolve myself, and I'm going to prop this bridge up as best I can. And I was out there. That was two years ago. I was out there four days ago. That thing is still there.

There you go.

That new bridge is still there.

Yeah. That's a beautiful story. No, I like it. You know, it reminds me a lot of why I started doing this. You know, I. I began putting myself in the public eye probably technically five years ago, but really over the last year. But I've actually decided, okay, I'm gonna put myself out there and I'm gonna help as many possible people as I possibly can. And before I leave this earth, essentially. And, you know, the. The. For any of those. Any of the folks that obviously watch the show on a regular basis, they know at the very beginning of the show, there's a bridge that then turns into an icon that makes up, you know, essentially the logo that's associated with my name. Yep. What most people don't know is that bridge has multiple meanings. The first meaning is the simple fact that I almost threw myself from a bridge at my lowest moment. Literally, I was staring at the moment from looking at a life that was going to be lost versus to a life that could be. And I. And I. So I. So I identify with that. Secondly, there was a Situation where I had a very, very, very colorful dream. So I dream a lot, and a lot of my dreams come true, either in full meaning the literal and. Or figurative. And you just almost know, oh, that's what that meant kind of thing. Right. So that's kind of my life. Well, I had a dream, and I was in. I was in Ireland, matter of fact, over there by the spire, and there's a bridge there called the Hay Penny Bridge. It's a very specific bridge. Everybody knows where it's at. And in this dream, I had rebuilt the Ha' Penny Bridge out of books, resources, all kinds of videos, and all kinds of stuff. And I'm working as feverishly hard as I possibly can. On one side of the bridge is, like, what I would refer to as the faith community or the community of, you know, people that are believers, maybe on various levels of their journey and stuff like that. And on the other side of the bridge was a very, very dark space. And then I got to the top of the bridge in the dream, and I just began looking to the left and looking to the right and waving people as quickly as I could up onto the bridge, kind of like this kind of scenario. And what I began to realize is I've been given a gift of not just stewarding certain levels of income, but more importantly, stewarding certain levels of information.

Helped me begin to understand that there was a resource that I hadn't yet tapped into. So I began to say. I was still even telling my book agent recently. I said, I feel like one of the reasons I've never really fit in the faith community and I've never really fit in the, quote, unquote, secular community is because I'm not supposed to. I'm supposed to be a conduit.

Right.

So as it. So as a result. So I dug into that, and then the third part of the bridge piece was I realized the information that we were doing literally takes people from where they are to ultimately where they want to go. And it all happens through being faithful with the little things, which is why I think your books are pivotal.

That's it. There was a. I'm talking about books. You know, I was on Young Life staff from 1993 to 1998 in order to. In part of our training was we read a book, and I just looked it up. So I got the name right. Rebecca. I think it's Pippard or Piper. I don't really know Pippard. She wrote a book called out of the Salt Shaker and Into the World.

Mm.

And the whole notion was, you know. You know, Jesus talks about, like, you are the. You know, you're the light of the world, and he says you're the salt of the world.

Yeah.

There's a whole thing about physics and light. But the bit was, like, the main thing was about being salt. And.

You are actually shaken out. I'm gonna say it again. You're actually shaken out into the world to make the world. You know, in your analogy, on the other side of that bridge, like, you live over here.

Yeah.

You are shaken out.

Yeah.

Into the world that exists in order to enrich, in order to make it more flavorful, in order to soften. That's. That's your. That's your thing. And, you know, again, the things I really like about you and why I wanted the conversations about is because, like, I got shook out. Like, I've been shook out a bunch. Like, there. There's a lot about how I ended up where I am that, like, had. Like, I didn't. I didn't want to do that. I did not want that. I didn't want to go there. I didn't want to experience that. I had no interest. I would not have planned that.

So much similarities for a homie.

Like, I hated it while it was happening. It was like, honest to goodness, like, legit pain. Like, I'm in pain. I still have sadness about it. Like, it's awful, but I wouldn't be where I was without it.

Yeah.

As a collective body. And this is. Again, here's the moment we're in. This is, like, why, like, I wanted this book out now.

Yeah.

As a collective body, y'.

All.

We got shook out. This is what's happening. Yeah, we got shook out.

Let's be real.

You can either cling to the salt shaker and try to stay in the safe environment you've been living in, or you can go where God is trying to send you.

Yeah.

Through all the trial and all the pain he's trying it. This. This moment for the next, like, several months to several years is going to be hard. You're going to lose stuff that you thought you needed. And if you. If you hold on to it, then you will miss out on the blessing on the other side of it. But if you let go and you deal with what you have to, if you deal with the. If you endure, if you do the long suffering part that Paul talks about, but what it looks like to be a Christian, it's faithfulness, it's love, it's also long suffering. If you do that. Part, then you will end up on the other side of that bridge, and you will be where Christ wants you to be. Y', all, we got shook out. We actually got shook out of the salt shaker, and now we get to actually be the blessing we're supposed to be in the world. Are you willing to do that? Are you willing to take what you've got on hand and bring it to Jesus and say, I'm not enough. I don't have enough. Do something with me?

Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, what if we really want to look and feel like Jesus and go and literally have Christ within us on a regular basis? Christ never owned a building.

Yep.

He walked for miles, went to places he wasn't supposed to, you know, in theory, wasn't supposed to be or go to.

Yep.

And poured out love to the people that, quote, unquote, the religious side of the world said, they're worthless, don't bother. Yep. The very first person he went to and then the person he only got, the people group he only got agitated with were people who were so focused on tradition and man made rules and circumstances that it prevented other people from finding faith to begin with. When God's heart was to create faith.

Well, that's what the. I mean. So it's like actually what the Pharisees and the Sadducees were doing was like Jesus was turning the salt shaker upside down, saying, hey, I'm not saying you're a bad. This is not bad. I'm just saying we're done with this season. We're done. Like, this is good. You've been faithful. I'm turning this upside down. I'm turning upside down, and I'm shaking you out into what's next. And they were like, nope. Reached out and grabbed him, like, no, we can't, and we're going to kill you instead. That's what they decided to do. They're going to clutch onto the thing. They're going to clutch onto the salt shaker. This is one of those moments, man. This is like Jesus is turning the thing up. He's actually turning the thing upside down. You don't get to have it anymore because I've got something next for you. Do you want what I have for you or do you not?

Yeah. And, you know, the image that keeps popping in my head is Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. And, you know, they come in to arrest Jesus and Peter slicing off an ear. That's him clinging to the salt shaker.

Right.

And then if you Think about it as that happens. There was, yes, there was a three day dark window where everything, when all hope looked lost. And then one of the most beautiful things in history happened. They gave us the alternate right, which is the ultimate piece of salvation through a resurrection.

Come on.

You know, so if I was just. That was the things that popped in my head. Jesus told them, hey, you guys are done with the season, I'm going to the cross.

Well, no, Lord, you can't do that. You got to save us. Like, we need a king. Yep.

Because it's got to look like this. Because that's what we know.

Exactly.

And that's how it used to work. And you say it doesn't work. Let go of it. Let go of it. Suffer for a minute. Just suffer for a minute and trust that I have something better that you can. No one saw, no one believed. No one actually trusted that the resurrection would actually happen. So all kinds of philosophical notions, all kinds of poetry, no one actually believed there was an actual person who died and then came back. No one believed it. That's the thing. It's like no one actually believed it in the moment. No one did. Not the disciples, none of the folks.

Who taught it before.

No one believe it was possible. No, didn't believe it was possible. And Jesus said, hold up, here's the deal. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. Suffer for a minute. Just suffer for a minute. I'm telling you, if you do and you trust what I'm saying, then on the other side of your suffering is more than you can possibly imagine happening. And this is the moment we are in right now. You could not begin to possibly imagine what God has in store in the next season of life for the people of Christ. Not for the church as we know it, not for your church as you know it, but for the people of Christ. You could not begin to imagine. Are you willing to take the moment you have on hand, wait, and then bring to Jesus what you've got and say, what can you do with this? And then watch him do more than you can possibly imagine. This is the moment we're in.

Yeah. I mean, a couple of things come to mind. And the first thing that comes to mind is something that I told my grandfather right before he passed away, who ended up leading me and loving me to faith. Not through condemnation and conviction and guilt and shame, but through, you just need to dig a little deeper, and I love you, keep going kind of scenario. And, you know, he told me a long time ago that he Just wanted to get to the place where he could lay crowns at Jesus feet. And I got to thinking about that even recently. It's like, lord, let my life be so impactful that every single thing I do, it's a crown that I can just give to you.

Yep.

I could just lay at your feet and just be done, you know? So that's the first thing. That's the first massive takeaway that I think that that really kind of resonates with me. The second thing is, through all the trial and tribulation, my life has taught me that every time I think things are done and hopeless, within a short amount of time, things get miraculously better and I'm different. I went through a pretty large embezzlement thing about even three years ago, and it changed me radically. It's part of the reason why. It's funny because before the embezzlement thing, I wanted, craved, and sought the stage and everything that came with it. Literally during that season, I'm like, you can have it if this is what it cost. I don't. I don't want anything to do with it. And it was almost like he waited to that moment to say, okay, now you're ready for it.

Yep.

You know, So I think this is such a pivotal, pivotal conversation, and people need to hear it, because I think people have been lost in the wilderness for a tremendous amount of time because they had been led astray in a.

Lot of different ways, and they don't understand what the crowns are, in other words. So, like, in the story you're telling, like, the crown is not your success. The crown is like the crown you lay at the altar is like, this is what I thought glory was. In other words, like being on the stage, being the celeb, being the powerful speaker person. This is the crown you lay at the altar of Christ. The moment you said you can have that is the moment you actually laid that crown down. That's the part that we don't actually get. What we believe is my crown, the thing I'm laying at the altar of Christ, is my success that I get to a place where I've won, I've accomplished, I've succeeded. Now I get to give to Jesus my successes. And he's like, no, homie, what I'm trying to say is the thing you think is glorious, I want you to hand it to me because I'm going to take it away. I want to take that away from you because I have way better stuff than this crown. You think that's a Crown.

I get it.

I understand. You think that's a crown because they told you that it's not. I'll take that. And I'm gonna do other stuff with it. Like the moment you decided, like, I don't want the stage. I don't want the fame. I don't want the stuff like, you hand it that. That's you laying that crown down. This is the stuff we lose. This is the stuff we don't quite get culturally yet is, like, our successes, our numbers. The numbers of people, like, used to come to Faith Sunday, or, like, the number of baptisms and all these things. The way we would measure, like, the church attendance and butts in seats, like, these are our crowns. And we thought that we needed greater success. And he's like, I want you to hand that to me because I have way better than that, and you need to trust me for that.

Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, you know, a couple things. You know, Jesus first said.

I go to prepare a place for you. If it were not so, I would have told you, come on now. Right. So he says that. And then if we go back to Peter's example, who goes through the ultimate moment of desperation, isolation, and loneliness and loses himself and what he thinks he lost with the denial, Jesus not only restores that, but then baptizes the entire group weeks later with the Holy spirit. And those 12 dudes radically altered the entire course of the entire world.

Yes. Yep. And none of them counted on it. And this is the thing is, like.

We. You know, we.

Well, not we, like, but oftentimes folks will talk about, like, the doubt of Thomas or the faults of Peter or his overzealousness. And, like, I love those stories because they get like, I've got room for myself in those stories because I'm like, I'm riddled with doubt at times, and I'm overzealous at other times. And so, like, I see Thomas and I see Peter. I'm like, there's room for me in these stories.

Yeah.

The other side of the coin is like, what? What? What Thomas had was his, was his critical thinking, and he brought it fully to the table. So when Jesus, like, like, legit, like, walks through a locked door, this is such a great moment. He, like, the door is locked. They are hidden. Jesus walks through a locked door, like, comes through a wall. And Thomas is like, yeah, I don't even know if this is real.

Like, bro, like, what? Yeah.

And what Jesus does is he takes what. He takes the best of what Thomas had To offer, which was he's a little bit duplicitous. He's a little bit like, he's a little bit doubtful. And Jesus is like, hey, you know what? Actually like who you are. I like who you are, critically. So I'm going to give your criticalness a moment. And he gives him a moment. It's in the Scriptures, forever and ever and ever. And he takes what Thomas brings to the table, what Thomas has on hand, and he makes a beautiful moment out of it. Similarly with, like, with, with Peter's zealousness that like, he takes Peter zealousness and then he. And then after the resurrection, he brings him to the beach and he's like, let's talk about where we. Let's talk about where you really want this is Peter. And Peter's like, lord, you know I love you. He's like, okay, do you really want this? And Peter's like, no, you know I love you. And Jesus like, do you really want this? And Peter's like, no, you really know, you know I really love you. He takes Peter's zealousness and does something beautiful with it like that. Even in those moments, Jesus takes the best of what these people have on hand, which is not enough, and still says, I will make something beautiful with it. Can you believe, can you possibly believe they can take what you have on hand and Jesus could make something great with it?

This is why Jesus is so beautiful and powerful, even tying it back to the loaves and the fish. Not only did he take what was beautiful about each individual and do something with it powerful, he also took what was broken with each individual and did something powerful.

Yes, he did.

Mankind can't do that.

No.

We get lost too much in our selfishness of self seeking. Even when we even, and I dare say, as much as we want to give, there's always an element of humanity that says, well, I'm giving because I know if I give today, it's going to come back to me.

Yep.

So the expectation itself kills the heart of the gift.

It does. Well, and, and again, like the difference between giving the way we understand it and giving the way Christ is asking us to is. And we go back to like, what, what are your actual next steps? Can I first and foremost again confess I do not have enough. This is not enough. You know, can I confess that I am not enough now I am an actual. Now I'm actually in a posture to give a divine natured gift.

Yeah.

To say I don't have enough. And I'm not enough. I'm gonna give it to you anyways and trust and believe that you are enough. And because you are enough, I can give you everything I've got. And you'll do something and you'll do something glorious with. Doesn't work the same way. It doesn't work like, well, I've accumulated this because this is this way. And I know the math from here. If I do this, this will happen, homie. That's not faith. It's not faith. It's not faith to say like, this is what I've got. I know the math. And if I do this, then here's my results. That's not faith. Faith is. I know that this is not enough. I actually know it. I feel it. And I've got a little bit of shame and fear involved in the offering of it, but I'm going to hand it to you anyways and believe that you can actually do more with this than I can possibly imagine. And then I'm just going to wait for the three days between you dying and being raised. That's what I'm going to do. That's actual faith, which is the moment we're in. No one. And you and I both know this. No one knows for sure. No one knows what it's going to look like to be a church or to do church 10 years from now. Literally no one. And if you're telling people you do, you're lying. You actually don't. You have no idea. 60% of people in the area I live in are not returning to the churches they were in a year ago when the pandemic started. No one saw that coming.

No one saw that.

60%. And that's just this area. I talked to folks in Pennsylvania, in Lancaster County. It's 75%. 75% of people who left their churches who, like, couldn't go to church at the beginning of pandemic are not returning to the same churches. They're going to different churches. You don't know what it looks like to do church 10 years from. You have no idea. Yeah. Can you take what you have on hand, bring it to Jesus and say, please do something with it because it matters more to you?

That's good. Almost got me, man. I'm thinking about, you know, I just. I'll be candid with you real fast. I don't care who's watching. We're having such a good conversation.

Yes.

I've got a. I've got a pretty massive live event that has been in the making for those five Years. It just, but it just so happens, you know, we've, we've done really well this year and serving people and helping people and as a result, they want more service and things of that nature. And I can tell you right now, you know, I've got quite a bit of money invested in the event, quite a bit of money invested in the live event center. I've thought through the experience, I've thought through the speakers that I've invited over to speak on the stage. And you know, are they sincere? Do they really want to help people or is it fame? Is it fortune?

Is it?

What is it? And through all of that, this will be the largest single handed undertaking I've done in this short amount of time prior to that. And honestly, there's nothing else I can do. Yep, there's nothing else I can do at this stage in the game to ensure success other than to say, lord, it's yours. Anyway, take it. I mean, it was funny, you know, when I went out that crazy experience with the embezzlement thing.

I was actually stepping on stage the night before. Like I learned about it the night before, step on stage, talk for three days straight for, at the live event. So I was completely broken and shattered while I'm teaching, which was a hot mess. I mean, seriously, I was a wreck. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it did force me to actually ask, is what I'm teaching authentic and will it work there? So it was a piece of that. But secretly in my prayer closet, I was like, God, I don't understand. Why would you have me spend three years, I mean, three years building content frameworks and making it super simple to digest. Why would you have me do that? I don't understand, and I kid you not, not a single urging dream voice, nothing from God for whatsoever. For almost nine months. Nothing. I went from praying on my knees to praying on my face. And one thing I learned from my grandfather is when you feel like you need to run from God, that's when you need to run to God. So I just kept tugging on the shirt tail. I'm like, no, I'm still here. I'm still here, right? And out of the blue, about nine months later, I'm sitting at my office and I'm working on an Excel spreadsheet for my construction company, totally giving up on the dream of service. And all the prophetic words have been poured over my life and everything like that. This is what I hear. I never said you weren't going to use it, but you're not going to use it for your glory. You're going to use it for mine.

Come on, man.

That was it.

That's it.

Six months later, through a set of divine interventions that I can only explain through God. Moving puzzle pieces.

Yep.

It put me back in. Not just a track to build something special, but a track to fast track it.

Like, I.

This thing's got a momentum that is. Be well beyond me.

Yep.

Like, well beyond what I can do. You know what I'm saying? And each day I had a friend of mine, Ira Davis, Ira Jeamed. Ira Davis, he's out of. He's actually out of Cali too. Love the guy. Text me out of the blue. He said, he just. It just says, trust God, bro. Trust God.

I'm awake.

All right. So the theme of the day, especially now talking to you, is trust God, bro.

Yeah.

Bring what you have. Hand it over again. Like, it is, it is. It is. What you make of it, like, paying attention to what we have on hand. Like, what do you actually have on hand? Do everything you possibly can with what you have on hand. And the point in which you actually get to your end, that's when, like, the deeper, glorious, like, life, transformational world, transformational faith journey actually begins. Yeah, that and you and I both know, man, most of us just don't live there most days.

What's scary?

Yeah, it is scary. It's scary. It's scary to confess. It's scary to actually take account of what I've got. It's scary to actually try your best because you're afraid of failing. And it is scariest, most to come to your end and actually believe that God's going to do something bigger, better, stronger, deeper than you had imagined.

When you think about your ultimate outcome, what is your ultimate goal or outcome you would like to see for this book as readers?

I want to see folks who.

Yeah, I got a couple answers to that in the broad sense. I want to see folks who don't think they have something to offer start offering what they have. Yeah, so that's. That's a little. I want to see, like, if you feel like you don't have something to offer, I hope you read the book and you start offering what you have. Yeah, you're one of the 12 disciples looking at 10,000 people and be like, I don't. I don't have enough of this. And Jesus is saying, how about we just make something with what you got?

Yeah, you gotta grab it.

I'm not asking you to feed 10,000 people. I'm asking you to Trust me. Yeah. And the other part of it is, and this is more hyper specific is I'm really believing that the next phase, the next season of what it looks like for people to live.

Out faith is smaller. It's more. It's more relational that I actually know, know the people I'm living my faith life with.

It's more. It's far more local.

Because life got smaller. That's a really, really specific piece that, like, I feel like I think I'm hearing and I'm just trusting, like I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do.

There's coming a time when even in this country that church service will be inside of houses again.

This is that. This is the thing, man.

This is.

What I'm saying is like, it's, it's. It's that like we had a minute and it was cool. It's great. And I think we did really. I honest, I'm not one of those cast that's like, oh, the big churches and all this garbage. No, no, no, no. I think we did really well with what we were given for the time. And I think it's over. And I think there will be some folks who do that for a while. And that's great. That's fine. But if you're listening right now, the chances are, bro, that's not you.

Yeah.

And that doesn't mean you have to wait for the pastor who can, who can harness 15,000 people on a Sunday, because there are 120 people in your neighborhood who just don't want to go to that church. But they'll come to your house and, like.

And just talk about life and let you pray for them. And, bro, if you don't do that, I'm sorry, then it's just not gonna happen. So it's kind of on you to do the thing that you have to do.

Yeah. I mean, if you look at everything that, you know, made Jesus, Jesus is. He was hyper relational, hyper intentional and hyper focused on the mission that he had at hand.

Yes. Whatever was right in front. He stops in the middle of that road, man. He's on the way to the big, big dog's house. He's on the way to Jairus's house, and everyone's like, super excited he's going to Jairus's house. Because Jairus is like, big, you know, big kid religious cat. And like some woman no one knows touches him. And Jesus, like, this is what's happening right now. And everyone freaks out. Like, bro, we gotta be somewhere. We Gotta be in it. We have to be somewhere important. He's like, I'm right here, right now, and this person and I will do this until I'm done. So y' all can wait and then write a story about it.

Yeah. I don't know if you know Dallas Jenkins at all or you know, the. The creator of the chosen TV program that they put on YouTube, but it's a. It's amazing. I'll check it out. Yeah, it's, like, super amazing. It's. It's taught from a different perspective. It's taught from the relational side of Jesus and the disciples, and it's cool. It is super freaking awesome. Yeah. They just did one recently where they were telling the backstory of the man by the pool. Bethesda.

Yeah. Right.

So check this out. Yeah. So, you know, so they're doing that. So they're doing the story, but they actually carry that guy's back, his origin story, all the way back to birth or how he actually got his legs damaged and all the suffering he went through. All the way, waiting for years upon years upon years upon years upon years upon years. By the.

Oh, yeah, I want that.

And then all of a sudden, Jesus goes to Peter's, like, hey, come with me. We got something to do. We're gonna go into town. And they're walking into town, and, you know, Peter's just being Peter. Hey, you know, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. What about this? And Jesus is like, okay, yeah, we're just. We got someplace to go. He starts walking towards the pool. Peter's like, what are we. Do it. And Peter goes, this is one of those moments, isn't it?

And then Jesus walks over to the man. It's one of them. I mean, I couldn't help but weep. They did a fantastic job at storytelling. It was. It was incredible. So if you haven't seen it, you got to check it out.

I will go check it out, man. Yeah. And there you are. Like, this is right now. We read the stories in other people's books from 50 years ago, from 100 years ago, from millennia ago, about heroes and the things they did in the small moments, man. This is. This is. This is one of those moments.

Yeah.

This is actually one of those moments.

Yeah.

This isn't a moment. Don't wait for the next season. This is actually one of those moments when we walk alongside Jesus and we, like. And we get to decide, do I actually believe the things that I'm telling people? I believe up till this point, this is actually one of those moments that they will tell stories about. I'm not joking right now. They will tell stories about 150 years from now when they talk about why does the church look like the church? Why does the church look the way it does now? 150 years from now when they're having those conversations, they will be talking about the decisions that you and I make now. Right now. Yeah, they'll be talking about that then. This is one of those.

Come on. Yeah, I know I kept you a little bit past the time, but I was having such a good time. I'm good, man. You know, I wanted to have people get a sense of your heart so they understood where you were coming from. Because I think it's going to resonate with a lot of our listeners and video folks or watchers. And so where can everybody find the book and find out more about you specifically.

So my two favorite places. If you go to heartsandmindsbooks.com my good friend Byron Borger is a bookseller in Dallas town, Pennsylvania. He's my favorite bookseller in the country. Loves the Lord, loves people, love books. He's my favorite. So if you want to, if you wanted those folks, it's like, where do I book? Where do I buy books so that it matters matters? Then go to heartsandmindsbooks.com and order a book from Byron. Other than that, like Amazon's got it, Barnes and Noble's got it. Your local bookstore has got it. It'll be kind of everywhere because HarperCollins is fantastic. W Publishing is a beautiful, wonderful group of work, of book people. So It'll be everywhere. June 1st.

Rock on, dude. Rock on. Well, man, I appreciate you hanging out with me and I had a blast. We're definitely have to do this again for sure.

I'm in, man. You hit me up.

All right, dude. Take care. See you.

Bye.

Hey, guys. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. And if you did, I know you're gonna love this one right here. So check it out.

End of the day, whether we are moving or staying stagnant, we're giving ourselves permission to either stay stuck or to evolve. But there is permission being given in some capacity.