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One of the things I've learned in politics that I think would be better if we approached it this way— I think the perception, if all of our politicians were moderate, we would have a better system. And I don't think that's the problem. A skill we need to develop in this country, which we stink at, is it's better if we all state boldly and confidently what we believe, but with humility and the interest of learning from others.

But also, see, that's the piece that's missing, is listening and learning.

Yeah. The way I see some people responding to it is, well, I don't want to say anything because that's the right way to be welcoming, is I'm going to, I'm going to develop some sort of moderate, which is a form of self-abandoning. Yeah.

And as opposed to saying, no, this is who I am, where people are marketing in some ways have been some done so well that trust has been broken so bad.