Podcast with Chris Goodman

Welcome back, everybody. Steve Valentine here. And I've got a great guest here on the podcast that we are just talking to, my good friend Chris Goodman, who is an executive coach. He's coached a lot of real estate agents, but he's also coaching leadership, which is really important in a lot of different businesses. Kris has been struck by lightning just once, and he's got some impressive stats. So he, he shifted from real estate a couple years ago into executive coaching. You were an owner in Keller Williams. You owned a couple?

No, I was actually. I thought I was going to be in the leadership track to buy into the market center and all that, and then I'm sure we'll get into that story. But everything changed. So I didn't actually have ownership.

Yeah, yeah. In the first three years, Chris represented 111 buyers for 20 million in volume, production wise. And he's just an impressive dude and I really want to talk to him about the value of coaching today. And we're going to talk a little bit about real estate, some family, some other things. So, Kris, welcome to the podcast.

Man, I'm so excited. Thank you for the opportunity. I love your show. I love what you're doing, the videos that you put up. You know, there's a lot of talking heads on Instagram, but every time I find myself watching one of yours, I'm like, the dude knows his stuff. Stuff, and if people will just listen to him and listen to how creative he is, I'm not just blowing smoke. I tell everybody that you're the most creative agent and broker have ever met. Like you. You think like a different type of animal, man.

Well, you know, that's. That's a lot of evolution through the market. Right. Which. Which we're going to talk about in a minute. So tell me a little about your past from real estate, your experiences, and then why the pivot? Because I think that that's where some people are right now. They're starting to make a pivot and think things through. So let's just talk about that. That piece of your business.

Yeah. You know, we could just call this chapter, like, permission to evolve. I spent seven years in undergrad thinking I was going to be a lawyer and doing all the right moves to get into law school. And I even started law school, and I was one of those people you hear about who get in there and they're like, wait a minute, this isn't what I signed up for. Right. Because I had spent, you know, I don't know, four or five years working in corporate litigation and Doing legal things and, you know, like, actually going to courthouses and being around real lawyers, doing real lawyer stuff. And I got so frustrated in law school because it was like, we weren't really doing anything. We were studying a lot of. And don't get me wrong, like, I don't want to be dismissive. This is the way it should work. You should have to get the foundational stuff together before you go practice law. But I got really frustrated, and I dropped out of law school the first year. And so I had this evolution point of, okay, I've just spent seven, eight years figuring out I wanted to quit. Like, that's. That's tough. And I imagine a lot of realtors are probably looking down the barrel of that. Like, I've spent so many years doing this. What would I do if I were to change gears? So, for me, I wanted to take full control of my life, my business, my income. And the opportunity came up to meet with a realtor that sold me my house. And he happened to be the top agent in our market. And so I'm sitting down with. With him, and he's talking about how he has total freedom. And, you know, I'm in a full suit. It's like 89 degrees and humid, like Louisville, Kentucky heat does in the winter. And he's in a. He literally, I can just picture him now in a T shirt and shorts and flip flops and ordered a bourbon for lunch. And I'm sitting there in my suit, you know, sweating through it, drinking a tea, and I'm like, this guy's got it figured out. This guy knows how to have real freedom. And on top of that, he was the best in the market. So fast forward, we get into business together, and he takes me under his wing as my mentor to this day. He's like a brother to me. He taught me more about business and life and being productive and treating people right more than anybody else in my entire life ever has. And we built that team really, really quickly. We followed a lot of kids, Keller Williams models and things, and worked with really great coaches. And we were selling about, I think, 225 units a year on that team, but only with, like, four or five agents doing the work. So.

A lot.

Yeah, you know, a lot of people are like, that's. That's impressive. And I'm like, well, it was also kind of a necessity because our average purchase price was like 182,000 when I got started. You know, like, I wish I love these guys that I. That interview in California, like, Our average purchase price is like, 1.2 million, 1.8 million. I'm like, damn, man. We were.

Yeah, well, my average sales price in 2009 was, like, 30,000, so I don't want to hear it.

Yeah. Were you working short sales and foreclosures or REOs?

We were looking. Working foreclosures.

Yeah. Yeah, so. So you get it, man. Like, you. You have to burn the reps to. To get it to work. And so I got burned out, and that's. That's where things started to shift. Somewhere around halfway through the second year, I was like, I can't do this forever. So within, like. Like, I keep working. To summarize this, within about a thousand days from getting started in real estate, I. I got out of production because I hired my replacement, and as a team, we all trained her up, and she got rookie of the year. She did great. And I was able to step into more of coaching and recruiting for the team. That was a blast for me because it was never really about the real estate, and it was never really about, you know, the transaction or anything. I loved the people aspect, and I loved advocating for people. And once I started to learn how to coach people. Whoa. Then things. Then things got real interesting. So I spent a couple years as our director of sales, you know, coaching, training, recruiting, sometimes firing if we had to. And then I met this woman named Lindsay. Am I going too fast or any of the real estate part?

No, you're good. You're good.

Cool. So again, you know, permission to evolve here. Then I meet this woman named Lindsey, and Lindsey was. Was a life coach. And I literally remember going, can I cuss on your podcast?

Yes.

Keep it clean.

Knock yourself up.

I literally remember somebody said she was a life coach, and I said, what the is a life coach?

Right.

Yeah. I had been in coaching for years, and, you know, it was all numbers and business and, you know, like, real, real things. And it sounded so silly to me, life coaching. But, well, long story short, I married that life coach.

She lifed you.

She life coached the hell out of me. She really did. Still, Liz, all jokes aside, it was everything I was looking for. It was advocating for people in the most meaningful way, whether it was business, relationships, communication, confidence, creating income, creating opportunity. The people I love to work with have a big heart, and they want to go out and do good work in the world. And I got to blend all of the knowledge that I accumulated in real estate and the law with, like, this heart and passion that life coaching opened up. So, yeah, I met her and we started dating in April 2017. By July 2017, I quit selling real estate and started my own coaching business and haven't looked back. So you could say I burned the ships. You know, when I quit, quit law school and went, you know, I didn't start real estate with a backup plan. It was like I, I was 2ft all in. There was no way out. It was, I had to make it work. And that's why I did it again when I found coaching, life coaching anyway, because I was like, if I, if I dabble in sales, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave the door open and it's gonna be real tempting to go back because I had leadership options, I had coaching options. You know, maps. Coaching was, was really slamming and there was a lot of opportunity there. So I just burned the ships, man. And, and I only did, after all, I only did one deal after I quit selling real estate, and that was to come out of retirement for a million dollar deal. So that one I don't regret. But yeah, it. Go ahead. It seems like you got a question there. No.

So I want to back up a second because, you know, you went in, in 2014 and you met your agent and you were willing to let him mentor you. So, you know, a lot of people, which obviously there was probably, you know, the bad word that we call in the real estate business, there were some real estate splits and some other things that people tend to stay away from, right? They're like, oh, I don't want to pay all that money. I don't want to give up half my commission. I can do this on my own. How important was that mentor to you and agreeing to take on those splits early on in your career, as far as springboarding you forward.

I don't think I can overstate how important it was to take that route. Like, for me, that was the best way to do it. And here's why. Like to be transparent, I, I think my split, I think I got to keep 45% of a deal, so I'm immediately given more than half away. And then I had to give another 3% to KWRI, you know, for their international fee. So, so, and then I had to pay taxes. So, you know, when you're selling, like I said, 180,000 ish dollar houses, that's not a lot of dough at the end of, you know, you're not netting more than like 2,500 bucks, if that.

I don't have the math.

I would guess that's about an Average net.

I was close.

Yeah, Right. So a lot of people are like, you're crazy. You could do so much more on your own. And I'm like, you know what? You guys aren't thinking the way I'm thinking. Here's how I was thinking. With that split, I bought a full marketing team. I bought the opportunity to not have to do anything like touch my own signs, have my own signs made, deal with business cards, deal with photos. Like, all of that stuff that would have taken me out of production, slowed me down, and I didn't have to deal with. I got his assistant that he paid for because all I had to do was go out and sell. I got his mentorship. I got access to a decade worth of experience anytime I needed it or wanted it. Yep. Right. The team covered my travel and expenses for education and coaching. Absolutely invaluable to me. To this day, almost every day, I reference something that I learned on our trips together and at conferences. Like, you know, I'm sure you've been to family reunion or Mega Camp Team together. So I think you have to look at the approach that you want to take. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go big and you want to go deep and you want to go in a meaningful way for your experience, you know, partner up with somebody who can actually show you the ropes and compress all that time. Yeah, you're going to pay a split or some opportunity cost, but look at what you can buy with it.

Yeah, exactly. It's just an interesting conversation, because the way I learned was you, you know, sitting at the edge of my dad's desk for the first two years, not even really getting a commission split. Cause he's like, I don't want you to understand. I don't want you to experience the real estate roller coaster where you get a big check and then you kind of relax and then you're back into it. You know, I want you to really learn the business and understand it. And I think that a lot of agents, you know, they get into the business and, you know, they want to go straight for six figures, and this is how they're going to do it. But they end up having to stumble a lot because they're not willing to, you know, contribute. I always look at it from a standpoint when I talk to an agent is like, are you willing to invest a portion of your commission in order to move you forward? It's not costing you anything because you're not having to write the check for it. Right. You have to go do the work. And so it's. Sweat equity is kind of what it looks like in order to learn the things. And I hope that, you know, like you said, there's a bunch of things that have stuck with you throughout the years that you can never put a price tag on. Right? And. And I always look at that with my agents and the people that I teach and coach about the things you're learning are going to. They may not resonate now. They might in 10 years from now. Right. But there's things that you're going to learn that will fast forward you and take you further in your career if you just slow down at the beginning. Right. It's okay to walk a little bit of that marathon and then realize, okay, now I can start picking up the pace because I'm ready.

We were talking before we hit record that was on a retreat this weekend, and one of the instructors is one of the world's greatest and literally one of the world's greatest martial artists. He's one of 12 that have earned the title that he has earned 12 out of 8 billion people, y'. All. That's pretty damn good, right? So he reminded me that it's okay to be a white belt, which means it's okay to start at the beginning, not know what you're doing, and stand at the feet of giants and be the rookie. Right? And I think that's where a lot of people kind of get it mixed up, that they think they're going to jump into real estate and suddenly be an expert just because they got their license. It does not work that way. And the way that you can get more reps in less time or get more sales in less time is be around a person or a team or a series of people who are getting reps, right? And so you're learning from their deals and you're learning from what. What goes sideways with them and how they have to pull a rabbit out of the hat at the closing table.

I think they're also going to keep you from. I think they're also going to keep you from making massive mistakes, right? They've already learned from it. They've already paid the. The price for it, and they can save you so much time and energy. Like, I wouldn't do it that way. I would consider doing it this way because this is what happened the last time, right? So you start to learn from their mistakes and their experiences that you don't have to pay for. Those which both of us probably have. I know I have. Right. By Learning by the braille method. And that's why coaching agents on the investment side now is like, you can learn so much, so much faster than I did and skip some of the painful steps if you'll just listen and learn to invest some money into your time and energy for that education so that you can move faster, farther.

And if you don't have that growth mindset, it's going to be a long, tough road.

Right. So as agents are, you know, there's a couple of different things I want to cover. Right. Is like, so as agents, and I was, you know, I'm in the middle of 75 hard right now, actually, I'm on the beginning, end, or the beginning side of it. And I was on my walk last night, and one of the things I really thought about as agents are pivoting out. And I want to ask you a question. Because you've pivoted out of the real estate space, are you still utilizing. Did you keep your license active?

I kept it in referral status. Yeah.

Okay. That's what I was. That's what I was getting ready to.

Question is that by nature, I just, I deal with people, and every once in a while I come across somebody that I can connect. And I still coach a couple of agents, so, you know, they get first dibs on anybody. I can refer to them. So, yeah, sure, it made sense for me to keep it in referral.

Well, and the reason that I brought that up is that I think about people that you, you know, might be pivoting out of the business and realizing that their real estate license is still an asset to them to refer other people or partner with somebody to create some other residual income from those things. And I think that's an important part if you are starting to exit or you're wanting to pivot is realizing that, you know, your real estate license is still something that is an asset from a referral base. You never have to go out and show another house. You never have to go out and do the work. But you can have people that you trust with people that, you know and, you know, if you're part of that tribe. That was kind of what I was thinking last night. I'm like, man, if you just built a tribe around people that are shouting at, you know, the top of the mountains like, you're the best real estate agent ever and you should really use this person, and I'm going to connect you with them or her, you know, what kind of income can you make, like, while you're working your other job Just by connecting the dots, right?

The biggest paychecks that I've ever gotten in real estate. There was one deal that I personally worked that, that was the biggest, but the rest, probably down to the next five or 10 biggest ones after that were all referrals way outside of my market. A phone call, you guys. I mean, come on. So let's not. You know, one of the big things in my coaching practice is to show people that working hard sometimes is a requisite to get what you want. But, but working hard does not guarantee that you're going to make more money. Right? Like I show people all the time. And it's fascinating how many people I've asked, hey, what's the biggest paycheck you've ever gotten and how hard did you have to work to get it? And you'd be surprised at how many people have like that one deal or two deals. They're like, you know, I didn't really have to do that much, but it was by far the biggest I've ever done. That's how I see referrals. And especially if you find people like you, that you can trust and will take care of your people and create a relationship with them, not just work a deal.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's the important part for the agents. So if you're thinking about exiting the business or maybe doing it part time or. Look, we don't all specialize in everything. And you know, you find that person that you actually, you have coffee with, you break bread with and you create that relationship. So it's a trusted relationship. And you know that like, hey, I'm going to connect you over text. And this is what it looks like. I think about like one of our private bankers here in Phoenix that we do a lot of. I refer a lot of clients to equity lines through him. Right? There's, I mean, I've probably referred him 20 people, you know, in the last two months. I wished I got referral fees from the banks on that stuff, but I trust him explicitly with that. So I can just send him a group text with the client, say, hey, will you take care of this person? Right. And knowing they're going to get taken care of, the ball is not going to be dropped. And I think that's really important for agents to understand is that if there's something outside your scope, refer it to somebody else. You still make money, but you don't have to work it. And I think it's important even on the investing side, you know, that, hey, if you aren't Working with investors and you don't know that world. Don't try to enter it blindfolded.

Right. Yeah. Don't jump out of your lane and harm your client in the process, you know?

Right. You know, and that's, that's where I specialize.

Right.

If you knew somebody that wanted to build a real estate portfolio, that's where I specialize. Right. The traditional real estate is one thing. We still do that, but it's really about specializing, you know, And I get referrals from all over the country that are like, hey, I've got a client that wants to invest or buy a second home or what this looks like. So they're bringing it to me because I've kind of created that expert status in that space to be able to guide them through a lot of things. I mean, it actually amazes me, and I know that you know a lot about this as well, is that how much financial literacy you have to have along with tax strategies to really understand the investment side of the business. Right. And if you don't know those things, I mean, I've learned so much from my CPA the last couple of years and she's always on, you know, instant call if I need her to answer a question as to how much trouble you can get somebody in or how much money could potentially cost somebody because you didn't work through those things. It's like, it's. What's crazy about that is like you think about somebody selling and they didn't look at the time frame that they bought it, even on, let's say an owner occupant or whatnot or an investment, you know, they sell it one day short of that two year mark on an owner occupant. And now you're paying capital gains because nobody thought through it.

Right.

How much money does that cost your client?

And if you, if you're a newer agent especially and you don't know, one of the things that was most important to me was have a great relationship with a title agency and a great real estate lawyer who could see those things coming a mile away and warn us, hey, look, you know, you may not have known this because you didn't have access to the seller's documents or whatever else, especially in a for sale by owner or some kind of situation where the seller may not have, or just, I'll say, the other side may not have adequate representation. Yeah. The hairiest deals that I remember usually involve some sort of tax issue or lien that, you know, novice agents would be kind of blindsided yeah, exactly.

So you're, you've transitioned into the coaching space, and I think that, you know, along this goes right along with the mentoring piece that, that you agreed, you know, when you started in the business, same thing I did. How crucial do you think it is for people to seek out some sort of coaching or mentorship? You know, even if they're not in real estate, they're, they're, they're doing a different level of things. You know, you have coaches, I have coaches, and it's multiple coaches because I think there's coaches all over the place. Right. But how important do you think it is to invest in coaching in your business throughout your life?

I think you only have to look at the best in the world for an answer there. The best in the world always have someone, if not multiple someones in their corner, helping them become better. Right. Michael Phelps had a coach. Michael Jordan had a coach. I'm picking on sports people because it's kind of easy. But, you know, the truth is, if you find the best entertainers in the world, they have, for instance, a voice coach or a dancing instructor. They have somebody, and I'll frame it this way, maybe not necessarily a coach like I am, but they have a mentor, a trainer, an instructor, somebody who can spot their weakness, their blind spot, the thing that they consistently get trapped in and help them correct it. You know, the best always have someone like that, period. And if you're, if you're hardwired like I am, I want to be my best. I want the people who encounter me to receive the best they can possibly get from me. And in order for me to operate at that level, I have to be pushed, I have to be challenged, I have to be held accountable. And I also have to be loved on and supported, encouraged. And the best coaches I've ever come across can do both and change. Change those gears in just a second.

Yeah. And sometimes in the coaching world. So when you're coaching somebody, you know, are you. Besides holding them accountable? Right. And I think one of the things that I read, and I forget which book it is, you know, accountability is looked at sometimes in the wrong way. Right. So when we think about when we were kids being held accountable, there was consequences. Right. Rather than being held accountable in order for you to move forward. So how big is that, you know, like in your coaching practice, on the accountability, just to kind of expound on accountability itself.

Yeah, it's a great question because what the hell does accountability mean? It's kind of an empty word because everybody's got a subjective view of what that word means. You know, in my opinion, coach is the same way. I remember when I first started my business, I was on a plane and. And the person next to me asked what I did, and I was like, oh, I'm a coach. And in my world, I think, you know, I'm a life and business coach, and that makes perfect sense. And executives, like, know what that is, and they said, oh, like basketball, right? And. And if you know me, I'm like, five, nine. I'm like, I would be a pretty shit basketball coach probably. But anyway, so some of these words have no meaning until we assign meaning to them. Accountability is one of them. I think you have to look at what works for the person person. So I've been coaching all day today. I even had my small group today, and one of them needed to be loved on. She was having a hell of a week. The life stuff was happening and the business stuff was firing off, and she was just in it, you know, and she didn't do one of the things she committed to doing. And it could have really drilled down on her and been like, look, you need to be held accountable because you promised you were going to do this. What kind of person does it say you are? Blah, blah, blah, blah, and hit her with the sticks, right? Instead, I slowed down and I said, look, what kind of support do you need today to do the thing that you set out to do? That's all I said. And just the tears started. Right? And sometimes you have to balance accountability. It's somewhere in between candor and care. I think there was a book called Candor and Care. But, you know, the candor of being able to say the hard thing or the true thing that they really truthfully need to hear in the moment. And also the. Wait, what did I start with? Candor or care? Yeah, the candor to say the hard thing. And the care of being a loving, compassionate, real human who has real emotions and realize that sometimes people just need to be supported and loved through something. Not just hit with the sticks of you didn't hit the numbers. And I'll tell you this. I had my fair share of numbers coaches in the past. How many dials did you make? How many conversations did you have? And it never fired me up versus somebody who reaches into my real values and the things that I'm out. The mission I'm out to accomplish in the world, and when they turn that on, man, I don't need to track the numbers. Right? I don't need to think about how many phone calls I make because I don't stop till I hit the mark. And so there's a balance. Sometimes you have to ask the person, what kind of accountability do you want? Do you want the stick or the wet noodle?

Right. I mean, you know, that's the same thing we do with our kids, right? Stick or the wet noodle? When you're trying to hold them accountable. And I think that, you know, accountability is there, but again, it comes with a lot of people. It's consequences. But if you can set them up. I had a conversation with an agent this morning, and he's asking me for some accountability and things like that and setting goals. I'm like, here's the deal, dude. The goals are yours to set. The accountability is for you to tell me that you're hitting your stuff, not the other way around. And if you're. It's something I've gotten from my coach recently. If you committed to those goals and you want to be held accountable, you're going to do the steps and the things you need to do in order to honor your commitment to yourself. Not to me, to yourself. Right. Because if you're not honoring yourself in this, it doesn't make any difference to me. Right. It does make a difference to where you're going to end up, and that's why I want you to end up. There is if you are committed and you're honoring yourself in that commitment, and that's where the accountability comes in, is more questioning them on how are you honoring yourself and the commitment that you made because of the goals you want to achieve. And do we need to go back to those goals and look at them to make sure you understand your commitment?

I think it's a great point, because if you feel like you need accountability to accomplish something, you need to look at why. Why you're not excited to tackle that or why you're not willing to go all in on it and really investigate those reasons instead of try to cover over them with someone telling you to go do something you know you need to do.

Right. Or the, the reverse side of it, which is, you know, the, you know, you're going to get fired or you're going to be off the team or whatever. If you don't hit these things, right. And that's where the negative consequences come in, is that if you don't, this will happen rather than, hey, what happens if.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I. I've played exactly what you said, and it doesn't work. You know, people driven, I'll say a players on your team don't really need to be reminded if they're failing at something they already know. Right. And they're already going to have enough shame and guilt about it. So if you're bringing up their numbers or their inaction as a way to motivate them, I'm going to tell you, I'm just going to guess that's not going to. That's going to backfire versus getting. That's part of why I got into coaching so heavily, because I was like, well, the shit I'm doing isn't working. You know, like trying to track. Just track numbers doesn't work. I mean, we had all kinds of systems. I could see every number. Like, I used to tease people. I could see how many breaths my agents took in a day, you know, and all for what? All for what? Because at the end of the day, it takes one metric. How many conversations with people did you have about real estate? And if you're not excited about it, if you're not inspired to go help people, if you're not clear on the people you help, if you don't want to run through walls to tackle these people and say, you got to work with me, you're not going to have enough conversations, you know, so.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

That's very true.

What are. So I can tell it from my end, but I'm curious, like, where you're at now because you're coaching other people. What kind of annual investment are you making in your personal development so that you can better serve your coaching community?

Good question. I haven't been asked that in a long time. I think probably that's a funny way to frame it. I put in, in the last year, I'll say probably $80,000. I'm kind of adding up things in my head. Yeah, somewhere between 80 and 100 in the last year. But I actually sat down. Chris Harder had a great podcast out about calculating the ROI of your growth investments, whatever that looks like, and to figure out what that number is. And so I sat down and I. I tracked everything from. Well, since. Since before we met. So that would have been like probably 2017, 18. And I've made an 8x ROI on my coaching investments. 8. Now that's just in dollars. That's not in what I've learned, who I've become, opportunities that I've gotten to experience. Obviously, the people I've met, to me, is one of the most important things and the friends I've made along the way. But I mean, come on, that's a no brainer. 8x. Who would say no right now? I treat it very seriously and I take these investments personally when I do invest in them. So there's that aspect. But yeah, man, I go like, I've from the very beginning said I have to practice what I preach. So I've always had some kind of coach, except for like two or three months where I was in between. And that was actually pretty miserable for me. And I work to have somebody who's close to or above the rates that I ask people to pay me because I think that's fair. Okay, so. So yeah, it's, you know, does that answer the question? First of all?

Yeah, yeah, no, it answers the question. The reason I asked it was, you know, again, coaching is an investment. And, you know, I remember the same thing. The first year that, you know, Kris told me about his mastermind and the investment was $24,000 for the year. You know, at that time it was like, which was 2016, going into 17, I think. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, my God. Like, that is a lot of money. Right. As far as anything I'd ever invested in. And, you know, Kris's mastermind, there's definitely been an roi money wise. And I definitely, you know, investment wise, I've gotten all my money back and a ton more. But more importantly, what you said, it's the relationships, right? Is 100%. The people that I've met, like yourself, your wife, Lindsey, Kris. I just spent some time with Kris this weekend. I'm going to Barrett Jackson with him tomorrow.

Awesome.

The relationships, it's really hard to go back and do the ROI on those relationships because they're actually, they're invaluable at the end of the day. Right. I mean, you just don't know where they're going to go, their friendships.

That's it. Yeah, they're real friendships. They're not just like business acquaintances that you could call up if you need a plumber. It's like, go ahead.

No, I just, I tell a lot of people, right. You're paying to be in the room and now you need to take that investment and figure out where the ROI is going to come from and the relationships in that room. And I think some people reverse engineer that. They're like, oh, if I pay to be this room, how much business am I going to get out of it? Rather than how many really kick ass relationships am I going to get out of it?

You know, there's so many things that they can reveal to you as you get more intimate with them as well. This retreat that I was on, there were about 30, I think 25 or 30 men as participants there. Almost 40 people total though. And in three days I, I came to see these guys as my brothers. Like, I would take a bullet for any one of them. You don't get that at just a conference where you're learning passively. You don't get that from a webinar. And it takes that real human connection and if I'm honest, the real vulnerability that you experience when you put high powered people, whether they're in business or just in life with the passionate people together. And that's where magic happens. And I think we've, you know, over time gotten a little disenchanted with that. Like, we've forgotten that that's where real community begins, you know, face to face, live person and. Yeah, so I'm with you on that, man. I think masterminds groups are one of the fastest ways to unlock the best in yourself and to help you get more reps at, you know, unlocking that in other people. Because if you want to excel at any level in business, you're going to have to be a leader. And leaders have to lead people, right? They have to coach people. And if you're not getting any reps doing that, it's gonna be tough to be an expert.

So when you joined Chris's mastermind, did you do like, did you inter. As much as he interviewed us to go into it? Did you interview him? Did you talk to anybody that had been in his mastermind? And were you looking at other masterminds?

Yes, to all of the above. I really did. I mean, really, I did my homework. I'll tell you. The funny thing is I remember sitting in an Uber somewhere in Texas. Oh, we were in Austin, Texas, and I was on my way to a conference and I kept, you know, it was one of those kind of God moments where I kept coming across Chris Harder's stuff and I kept feeling good about what he was putting out and I kept being really intrigued by the work he was doing and, and being fascinated by the people who were in his orbit. And I kept coming back to it. And I remember sitting in that cab and I was like, I'm going to send him a message because I just, I don't know, something's telling me to do that. And I think I asked him at that point what the one thing was that changed everything for him. And he said, man, that's a great question. When I learned to let go of judgment, he could have said anything. He could have said, when I understood funnels, when I hired a coach, he could have said anything. Kind of classic business answer. And he said, when I learned to let go of judgment. And I thought, this dude has a big heart and I'm really curious now. And so he started looking at my stuff and my wife's stuff online and he was like, I really think you should apply for this mastermind. I do think you would be a fit. And I think we need to talk. And so that turned into one or two conversations and me asking people who were in his orbit, like, what do you think of this guy? Like, what's he like behind the scenes? And everybody I talked to had the same sentiment. This guy really cares. His heart is as big as his ambition is. And, you know, you can attest to this too. We validated that and we do every time we hang out with him, so. Well, does that answer your question?

Yeah. No, it answers the question. It was more from the standpoint. When somebody is looking at a mastermind or a coach, you know that they're asking some questions around those people because, you know, the space is so convoluted right now. And some people, it's a money grab. I mean, we've probably both had coaches and we've probably both gone to events where you're like, this sucked, right? I got zero value out of this and this was a total cash grab for somebody.

So, yeah, let me speak to that because I do, I do think there are some things to be careful of there. Number one, be careful. If you're feeling like you're going to buy a return, you know, this coach is $100,000. So I'm going to give them $100,000 and they're going to get me $500,000. It doesn't work that way necessarily.

No, it doesn't.

Right. And I don't know any coaches that guarantee that. So I would be very careful about getting those like starry eyed moments of I'm going to buy this result that I want. There is no return without investment. I mean, you know this as an investor, right? There is no return without investment. And that doesn't mean that you get it just by putting the dollars in. So make sure that the methodology the coach is using, the style they have, the pace they have, that you're in alignment with that before you start worrying about that return on that investment. The next thing is look at the how Do I want to say this? Look at the values of the person and are those values in alignment with you? Because when you get into conflict, which if that coach is coaching you well, you will hit conflict and you should. You might need something bigger than the two of you to carry you through that. And if you're not aligned on those values, that might be a real ugly conversation or a real quick falling out. So those are a couple of points. Anything else you can think of that you've experienced?

Yeah. No. I just want to caution people that when you are looking for a coach or you're looking for a mastermind that you do ask that facilitator of the mastermind or the coach for some references to talk to other people that have coached. Right. Not that they can't stack the right people to do that, but I think that, you know, I remember people reaching out that were in Phoenix going, what do you think about this? I'm like, well, it was life changing for me. But I also know that you're going to get out of it what you put into it. Right. Kris can only take us so far. You have to take it across the finish line at the end of the day, and you can't. A coach, a mastermind, they're not the magic pills.

Right?

Right. And I think that that's the important part, you know, when it comes down to those. But I do think that those ecosystems are really important. And I do think that as you. As we evolve, this is kind of the other question as somebody evolves. So let's take your coaching students. When, at what point in time do you feel they've evolved? That maybe you're referring them to something else or like maybe, hey, I think you need to look at something else. Do you ever do that with your students?

Oh, yeah, it's fun because, you know, in my world, we grow really quickly. Like, I'm pretty aggressive with your growth, and we track about seven or eight different categories of your life and your business to make sure that you're growing in them. And there are times where I have to get real with somebody and be like, look, this doesn't seem to be working. This number has been the same for weeks and for months. What's going on? And it doesn't happen that often, but every once in a while I have to either hit the brakes and say, look, this is not. We're not in alignment anymore, or what usually happens, honestly, is the person will resist coaching, but they'll finish their term and then they won't be happy. That's only happened maybe three times in five years with me. But again, it just goes to show you're dealing with two people. Think of how many different variables there are on each side of the phone going on. Right. There's a lot shifting and moving there. So yeah, there does need to be, I would say kind of buyer beware. Like you need to do your homework and feel comfortable with that coach. But the right kind of, how do I say this? A well intentioned coach will guide you into coaching or out of their practice. Right?

Yeah.

And if you're not there to receive the coaching that they have, that's just on you. Unless you know what I mean by that. Right. Like, yeah, there's a way to be coachable and then there's a way to be defensive and you know, and complain about your result. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, I mean, like I said, you know, coaching and masterminds, they're not the magic pill. And I think you have to be very intentional if you're going to make that investment. You know, it's, I was writing something down this morning. It's you can't go do a coaching call while you're in between appointments or in the car or like it should be a very intentional space that you're keeping open for that and you know, you're planning some time ahead of it and after it so that you know what your action items and those types of things are so that you are getting the greatest return out of the investment that you're making. If you're not and you're doing it haphazardly, you're not going to see the results. And like you said, somebody's going to be unhappy with it. And it's not because of what you did, it's because of how they invested in it. Because it's not just, it's not just a money thing, it's a time commitment.

And I'll tell you as a coach, man, it hurts when you're watching somebody suffer or be unhappy or they're not getting a result that they really want to get and you're doing your best to help them. And man, you know, we call it putting the mirror up in front of them. Like, you know, sometimes you're asking questions to be like, hey, you're complaining about the dollars that you're making, but you haven't made any offers in 12 months or 12 weeks or 12 days. You're complaining about not getting new clients but you're not adapting your strategy. Do you see that? Sure. All of These things that seem like common sense on the outside, but when we're. Joe Dispenza has this great quote on this. He says, when you're in the jar, you can't read the label. And when somebody is in the jar of their own, story of the market has shifted. It's hard to get clients right now. It's hard to deal with sellers right now. Blah, blah, blah. I'm getting beat up on commissions. Like, when they're in that jar, they can't see the label of themselves saying, hey, you're just not getting creative enough or you're not owning this or it's time to adapt your strategy. Right. So, yeah, that can be tough, man, to watch people sit and do that. Like I said, it doesn't happen all the time because most of the time when people sign up for me, the investment is serious enough that it's like, I've got to be coachable. I've got to go. We've got to knock this out. So it's a. It's a dance.

Yeah. Well, that's great insight on the coaching side. So tell me a little bit about your coaching and what you offer for people and who it's for.

Cool, man. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. So the easiest way to put this is I am an executive life and business coach. Executive could mean you are an entrepreneur. You're the CEO or in the C suite of a business. But somehow, some way, you're in charge of this business and you're dealing with the particular issues that people at that level of business are dealing with. My experience and my background just lends itself particularly to that type of person. So if that's you, and you know, most of the time what I hear is I know I need to be more effective, more productive. I know I can be happier. I'm burned out or I'm burning out. The team isn't getting the best of me, my family isn't getting the best of me, and something's got to change. Something's got to change right now. That's usually what I hear. So if you're in that boat, I'd say let's talk. And look, I'll be the first person to tell you if we're not a fit. Luckily, I have lots of great people like Steve and other great coaches and business people in my life that I'll happily direct you to. If I'm not the right fit, that's who I coach personally. And then we have two tiers for that. My one on one coaching and a Small group or a mastermind. We meet weekly online. And then I also have an entry level point where some people, they hear an episode like this is usually how it comes along. They're like, look, I heard you, I want to work with you, but I don't have either the money or the opportunity or the time or whatever to work with you one on one. Where do I go? I hired a coach or I trained a coach who you can hire to start at an entry level point. If you've never had a life coach, if you've never had a business coach, if you're just dipping your toes in the water, that way you don't have to take the nuclear option with me.

Yeah, well, I think the other plug that I want to do here, you know, because, you know the real estate business, about 67% of the agents are female. So, you know, I want to. I want you to take a second too, and plug your beautiful wife, you know, as she does some of the coaching on the female side. And she's an amazing rock star. I love her to death. But will you just talk a little bit about what Lindsay does?

Yeah. This has been a fun evolution too. You know, Lindsay, my wife, focuses on a life coaching membership right now. And this is for. She has put so much work into this membership where you get live coaching from her. You get weekly journal prompts and all kinds of activities to work through and be in process during your week. This is not just for business people. There's an evolution for that later on. But right now it's really about the foundational principles in life coaching that work for everybody. They're universal. So you want to be happier, you want to get more fit, you want to learn how to create more business, but not at the expense of all of your time. These are sort of foundational things that we work on in life coaching. And she's built a phenomenal membership. It's only $97 a month. So when you're looking at investments and return on those investments, this is pretty silly in terms of how much you can get back out of that for 100 bucks a month.

Well, I think it's also what Lindsey's done is she's made it a very affordable entry level accountability coaching, you know, some guidance. And I think that's important. Right. So she's done that and. And she's got. She's just a beautiful person and I think that she's a rock star when it comes down to this stuff. So where can they find Lindsay at?

Chris, thanks for saying that. Yeah. Go to Lindsay Mango, Coaching dot com. Her name was Lindsay Mango.

It's.

It's Lindsey Goodman now, but she still goes by Lindsey Mango because there's only one Lindsey Mango in the world. Right. Like, come on.

Right. I mean, you got to go with that, right? You just got to use the Mango.

Yeah. And there was something else I was gonna say about that as far as. Oh, oh, being. Being in community. Like, you. You mentioned that. Right? Like, being in a group that supports you like this. This is the. The evolution that she came up with because she realized so many women out there need support from each other, need to be lifted up. They're out there, you know, doing so much. The heroes in our world are, you know, are the mothers and the women who do so much and never get a thank you. So she built that, partly that membership as a community to lift them up. And, man, it's pretty amazing what's already happened in just a month or two of that.

Well, congrats on that.

Thanks. Yeah.

So I've got one last thing. Go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, I thought you had another one locked and loaded there.

So I've got one more question to ask you, because this is something that is important to me. It's something that I teach and coach on. I think it's important to the real estate industry to understand. I always like to finish out with. You were an agent, right? You were selling all those homes. Where was your mindset around investing during that time? And do you have any regrets of not learning or doing more investing during your real estate career?

Such a great question. I've never been asked that. My mindset around investing was, let me get some sales under my belt, and then I'll invest. My mentor has, I don't know, a 10 or $20 million portfolio, at least, I would say. And he actually got started around 2008 as an investor and then did so well, like playing the game, that everybody started to know him as an agent, and that snowballed into him being, you know, the residential guy. So he was actually an investor first, and he thinks like an investor first, I would say. So he had a lot to teach me, but, man, I was young and dumb in a lot of ways, and I wanted to go fast, and I wanted. I wanted to be the best at what I was doing, which turned into real estate sales more than investing. And I think right at that pivot point that we talked about, where I was, like, kind of burnt out on all of it. And then life coaching came along. I think it was going to be one or the other. I think I was either going to stay in real estate and become like a serial investor and also coach and train agents, but my heart wasn't there. My heart wasn't in that. And so I went full tilt into coaching and didn't allow room for, I'm using air quotes if you can't see me, but distractions like investing. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say I regret that, but I do think that I was being myopic and sort of single minded at overlooking how much opportunity I had to create generational wealth just by being in that arena. And I think you are one of the best I've ever seen. If not, I'll just say it, you're the best. You know, I've got other friends in the space and I don't want to offend them, but the truth is you're the best at thinking about strategically, how do we take this pile of crap and turn it into something that cash flows in perpetuity if we want it to? And I did not think like that, man, I just, it just wasn't there.

How, how important? So if you were to go back, Let me change this question. Knowing what you know now and you go back into the coaching side, we're in the real estate business, how important or how would you have shifted some of your coaching for the agents to understand the investment side?

I would have asked him to think much bigger. Because when people get into scarcity, they put blinders on. And most agents, if they're not on the high of the roller coaster where they just closed a bunch of deals, they're down in the valley and they have those blinders on of I gotta figure out where my next deal is coming from or I gotta work really hard to hit this number this month and they get really myopic, right? So I would go back and I would, I would buy, break those doors open and show them, you know, guys like you and women like you who are out there revealing that it's not some trick or some thing that, you know, is not accessible to them as an agent, right. And I would help them see that they could actually get started. Maybe they don't buy their first house within 30 days, right? But they can at least start making the moves and have that plan in effect to build that generational wealth.

That's awesome. You know, I was teaching and I lied. I'm going to have one more question. I was teaching yesterday in Real Academy and we were just kind of going through some things and just getting people to shift their mindset that eventually this is going to be something that they can open their eyes to. And I believe that if they can do it themselves, then they're more effective with their clients, because now they're helping their clients do it as well, which is really important. Right. So you get away from everything just being a transaction and realizing, like, if I know how to do this, I can always lead and guide my clients to doing it as well, which is impacting a lot more people for, you know, their future, their kids futures, and all those other things that are really important.

It's so spot on. I mean, I think, you know, there's four levels of competence, right? And unconscious incompetence is the first level. You just don't know what you don't know. And if you don't have that mentor, that coach, that that person like you to step in there and say, look, this isn't necessarily as complicated as you might be making it out to be. You just don't know what you don't know. Somebody to take them through that first couple of steps, I think would. Would really change their world. And you prove that all the time, right? Like that. You just have to get started.

You got to start somewhere, right. Even if it's small and even if it's just, you know, again, goes back to the coaching piece, Right? Even if you're getting some coaching from me on just opening up the mindset to what is possible in the thing that you do every day. I told somebody the other day, I said, it's interesting because I've watched agents trip over $100,000 to make 15 just because they didn't know how to do it. Yeah, Right. So I'm like, man, that was really expensive.

I've been. Yeah. It's tough to go back and acknowledge that, you know, you. You helped the seller sell that house that you should have bought, as in, you know, and I think that's how you got started, right? Like, you picked up your first. Yeah, yeah, Yep.

Yeah, That's. That's always a story. So, last question. Just because you're outside the space now, and I'm curious on your opinion, and I know you've got friends and all kinds of brokerages, right. Where do you think these models go going into the future as we go towards, like, real brokerage and kind of the, you know, recruiting side and the different things that that model has to offer versus the traditional model.

When you say traditional model, what do you mean?

The traditional brokerage where you've Got the traditional splits and you know, this is what you're paying for and this is where you're at and it's brick and mortar. What's kind of your opinion, you know, from that side? Because obviously you're in it and things have changed now.

Yeah. And I do have an interesting perspective on that because I've coached people at pretty much every level of. I'm choosing my words carefully so I don't reveal anything. I've coached people at almost every level of the big name brokerages, I'll say, and gotten to see how that works and some of the challenges there. And then again, I've coached people who love the traditional model because it feels more authentic to them, it feels more engaging to them and they don't want to build a big team or conquer the world or sell 500 units a month. They're happy with the slower pace of maybe the smaller brokerage in their market. So I think a couple things are going to happen. I think there's still going to be massive innovation and in a huge clash. In a good way. Conflict is not always bad. Right. A good conflict between technology and agent life. And I think there's going to be lots of new intersections that we just didn't see coming. I think AI is going to rock our world in terms of what it can and can't do. Auto populating, you know, descriptions for houses, which I always hated to write and I'm sure you didn't.

You, me both.

Yeah, right. It can take the MLS sheet and just spit it out. So I think there's going to be really interesting developments with that. But I think ultimately it's going to go back to one thing which I got from a book called Fierce Conversations by Susan. I just read that. Did you really? Did you like it? Yes, I did.

It's amazing.

Every, every client I take gets a copy of that because it has helped me more in my relationships and even my conversation with myself more than any other book. And in that, the author, Susan Scott says the conversation is the relationship. So the conversation is come to our brokerage that leverages technology to make life easy, but we don't have a lot of training or consideration for you and your growth. Well, then that's what you're going to get. If that's the conversation, that's what you're going to get. For me, I would crave something much more rich than that, much deeper than that, and something much more growth focused than that. And I think the brokerages that are going to win are the Places that facilitate that for their best agents.

Totally agree. I love that perspective. Thank you for doing that. Well, dude, thank you so much for being here and sharing and where can they find you to reach out about your coaching and your platform?

Yeah, the best way to find me is on Instagram, oodmancoaching or on my website, which is just. Just Google Goodman coaching. You'll find me goodmancoachinginc.com I'm not a. You know, you guys would say I'm not a silent agent, right? Or a secret agent.

Secret agent.

I'm not a secret coach. You can find me really easily. Just Google me. But you know, the truth is, look, all jokes aside and everything aside, I love talking with people and helping them and channeling them into the right place to get to where they need to go if it's me or somebody else. So if you heard something that particularly hit a note, like the story I told about reaching out to Chris Harder, Steve and I wouldn't be talking today if I didn't have that little ping that said I should just send him a message and let's just see. And that one conversation changed my life. So I'd happily return the favor for anybody if they're interested.

Yeah. And so a couple of takeaways from this is I loved what you said about accountability is somewhere between why can't I think of the word something? Between care and candor and care. Candor and care. Right. I love that piece. You know, the other takeaway is make sure that you're interviewing the coaches that you're potentially going to utilize, get some references from some other people and just see if that's going to be a good fit. Chris made a good point. Like, you know, are you going to jive with that coach when it comes down to conflict? Because there's going to be conflict. If you have a good coach, there's going to be a conflict and they're either going to coach you into it and be able to coach you out of it if it's not a good fit. I think the last thing you know is on the mastermind thing and finding communities like where Lindsay is, where there's low entry things that you can get into. So, you know, I think that coaching is very similar to thinking about retirement. You know, when you're in your 20s, you can't afford to put thousands of dollars a month away into your retirement, but you can afford to put a hundred dollars away. So you're creating the habit. I need to be in these communities and like for instance, on Lindsay's community, it's $97 a month and you're getting into a community, which is the small habit that you start of making that financial commitment and creating that community. So that you have that habit and you start moving towards, okay, now you're there. Maybe now you're willing to invest $250 a month into a different community or another coach or something of that nature. So just remember, coaching is a long term plan play, it's a life play. And you've got to start somewhere. So depending on where you are and your ability to invest, find a number that you're willing to invest in coaching and say this is my monthly budget for coaching. And then start looking at what could fit in that, that fits with your life or your business or where you're trying to go and make sure that those coaches and those groups align with your life and where you know what your goals are. So thank you for joining us, Chris. I greatly appreciate you and we are going to get out there and see see you hopefully sometime this year. And I hope you're enjoying that new baby.