Cold Email Isn't Dead, But It Needs Resuscitating

There we go. So I'm going to share my screen and let me know if this is coming through. Nick. Yeah, I can't see anything. Yeah, cool. I see some thumbs up. All right. I can't see you all because I'm sharing on my screen. So if anybody has anything, just yell at me. Cool. All right, so main thing that we're going to be talking about today is cold email. And you've probably spent a lot of time, if you've been on LinkedIn and you probably see everybody talking about how cold email is dead and that email is never going to work. Email's dead. Cold emails just a failed channel. And I don't. Nick and I don't believe that that is the case and we actually have proof. We do take an idea of what succession does. So we basically work with life science sales teams to partner with them on go to market motions. And one of the main things that we focus around is actually building top of funnel for life science companies. And so to do that, one of the main channels that we leverage is email. So we in fact know that cold email is not dead. But I think there are a lot of challenges that have come up in the past couple of months that have made cold email a lot harder. Things around deliverability, filters, all sorts of challenging issues that can arise there. Also, everybody's inbox is way more cluttered than it used to be, so it's really hard to stand out and break through the noise. So what we're going to basically talk through today is how you can break through that noise and you can actually get your responses to your cold emails. And I do want to caveat this with, there's obviously a lot more behind prospecting in general. So, like we're, we're not going to be going into all of the other channels that you could leverage, such as like LinkedIn, phone calls, direct mail, events, in person visits, all that kind of stuff. We're not going to be covering that today. Today is going to be specifically around cold email. Cool. So what I would love is maybe for a few people either come off mute or throw it in the chat. One of the two. What does bad email look like? What does bad email look like? We've all been recipients of bad email. Give us some examples. Come off mute, shout it out. What's it look like? I hope this finds you well. Thanks, Brooke. That's a great one. Dear Insert name. Yeah, that's a good one as well. So bad salutations.

I know somebody made that mistake at the beginning of Their career.

What else we got? Any others? Keep them coming. I know there's a lot of feelings about this one. I hope you're having a good day. Yeah, that's another pretty bad way to open an email. I think another one is like, hey, I'm Harrison with succession. Bio is like you're opening. It's like you're literally introducing yourself. And they could see that in your message or in the subject line, I'm sure. Not the subject line, the name of the sender or in your signature. What else? Any others? Really long emails with lots of technical info. Also another bad example. Cool. So here's some stuff that we see. One, it's not relevant or personalized. Another thing with cold email, another thing where it goes wrong is they don't actually do it right. So you're not actually spending the time to send emails. Like other priorities take over prospecting for you. Lots of links and images. We'll talk about why that's bad. Long and undifferentiated messaging, there's a lack of follow up. It's all about you and your company. You're tracking open rates, you're starting a message with hope this finds you well. And basically you're just doing spray and pray outreach. And another one is actually another one that's just probably less obvious is that when somebody responds positively, some people take like a day or two. Get back to those people. And so just being slow to respond to your responses is also a way that people really mess up. Cold email. And so basically none of this stuff works. And so what we're going to go through today is a framework that you can think about for how to approach cold email and all of the different little steps along the way and things that you could focus on. And then at the outcome of all of this, we're going to give you four very specific things that you can focus on. Where if you just do those four things, it's going to massively increase your reply rate and your success with cold email. When it comes to cold email, there's really four core components. There is the deliverability side of things. So is your message actually being delivered into somebody's inbox, their spam folder, not the promotions tab or the quarantine folder, some other folder they have siphoned off? Is it going into their primary inbox to where they're seeing that email, whether they delete it right away or not? That doesn't really have to do with deliverability. Deliverability is all about just making sure that that email is actually ending up in their real inbox. And then the next component is list building. So it's how can we create the right targeted lists of people to go after that we do want to send emails to, and that way we're not spamming people by pulling lists that aren't relevant. Messaging is obviously a core component here as well. And so we'll talk about messaging and some tips that you can use with what you actually put into the subject line and the body of the message and then follow up. I think follow up is a underestimated and underappreciated component of cold email, where I think a lot of other people drop the ball. So taking this one section at a time, let's first talk through deliverability. From a deliverability standpoint, there are a lot of risks with sending emails from your main domain. So like for us, our main domain is Succession Bio. Your main domain is basically whatever the at domain after your at in your email, right? That's going to be your domain. And one of the issues with sending messages from your main domain is actually Google and Outlook have this rule. Actually, it's mostly Google has this rule, but we think Outlook hasn't publicly said it, but Outlook is probably doing something similar where Google has basically said that if you have a 0.3% spam rate on your messages, so if somebody were to market a spam, that would be a mark as spam. And so 0.3% of your messages coming from your domain are marked as spam. Basically they're going to downgrade every message that gets sent from that domain. So what that means is that's three out of 1,000 emails. So if you sent 1,000 emails and four people mark them as spam, that means that you are putting your entire domain at risk of. Of deliverability. And so what we do is we want to make sure that when we are doing cold email, if we're trying to be as focused on deliverability as possible, is what you actually do is you set up separate domains that you send from. So for example, instead of say Succession Bio as our domain, we might set up one called joinsuccession Bio as a domain. And so what we would do is we would create inboxes and send from that specific domain. And so when we talk about now how do you actually set up those inboxes and how do you want to diversify it? What most people do and most setups that people have within their company is they're using either a Google account, right? So are you a Google shop or are you an Outlook shop. And so what that does is that means all of your messages are coming from Google or coming from Outlook, but the recipient is either using Google or Outlook as well. And so what's interesting is there's actually different deliverability mechanisms. If I'm sending from Outlook and I'm reaching out to somebody who's also using Outlook as there are, if I'm sending from Google and somebody else is on Outlook, it sounds like kind of confusing. And you're probably like, why the hell is he telling me all of this stuff? And the point that I'm trying to get at is there's a lot of nuance that goes into the infrastructure and the email side around deliverability that actually matters a ton. And so having that set up appropriately in the right way is going to be like one of the more important things that you can do to like do cold email effectively to actually get people to respond, because it's actually landing in their inbox now. I'm sure we've got 35 people on this call right now. There are probably many of you who have literally no control over being able to set up a separate domain, set up different inboxes, or, you know, basically do any of this like technical infrastructure within your company. And that's okay because we have three other things that you can really focus on from your deliverability that you can control. The first one being don't track open rates. And then the second one being don't use links, images or attachments in any of your first emails that you're sending to people. And then the third one is have a less than 3% bounce rate. Ideally if you can keep it under 2, that's even better. But like I'm being realistic, not everybody's going to be able to achieve that. And so let's talk about each of these real quick. Open rates are basically the way open rates work is when you send a message through your sequencer and you're tracking opens, it puts a little pixel in that email. So there's a one by one pixel that gets added to that email. When that email is opened by the recipient, it triggers that pixel to be loaded, right? The image gets loaded as the emails open. And when that happens, it sends back to your sequencer that says, hey, this message has been opened. All great in theory, but a couple of things that happen with that are nowadays any person with an iPhone, every single email is being opened automatically by a bottle. And then you also have, especially with like larger biotechs and larger pharma they have security protocols in place where you'll actually not ever download an image. So that pixel never gets tracked or never gets triggered. So you end up in situations we have false positives of opens and you have false negatives. So one, you can't really trust the data, so you can't trust any open rate data that anybody actually shows you. And if everybody talks about open rates, it's basically a lie or it's not a real metric that you can use to inform many things. However, one thing that does happen when you have this pixel that gets added to your email is it increases the chance that it ends up in spam or that it ends up in the promotions tab. Because when Google or Outlook are receiving it, they see that, hey, there's this image in this email. So I'm going to think that this is marketing or I know that this is being tracked, so I'm going to push this and deprioritize it to the inbox. So the same thing also happens when you add links and images and attachments to your emails. The same sort of.

There was a question directly around that. So just to add on, that includes your email signature. So someone asked, does this include your email signature? If your email signature is not plain text, then yes. So if it has a link to a calendar, a link to your email, or even a banner image that your company says you have to put on there, then it includes all of those things. So you just click plain.

Plain text, yes. Ideally you are using a plaintext signature as well. You probably are thinking like, wow, I've been doing sales for so long, I've had these signatures in my inbox for forever and it's never been an issue. And I would say yes, I agree. Even a couple of years ago we were doing some really cool stuff at my last company called Citigo, where we could track a whole bunch of banner impressions and banner uses in people's signatures and there's some cool stuff happening there. But now all of the data that we have from hundreds of thousands of emails is basically showing that if there's any link, any image, any attachment whatsoever, you're basically plummeting your chance of getting responses. I just wouldn't do it. The caveat here is that if you want to use it in a follow up, you can include links or images and follow up messages that are replying back to that initial email, but you're still going to just have less deliverability than if you did plain text. If you really want to share somebody a link, the technique that we've been using is something like, hey, reply back with yes and I'll just send the link, I didn't want to send it without asking. Something like that. Something super simple as your call to action can elicit a response from somebody where then you can reply back with that contact with that link and et cetera. Cool. And the last piece around deliverability is around bounce rate. If you're sending a lot of emails and you have bad data on those emails and they're not validated, you're going to have a higher bounce rate. And so high bounce rate is a bad signal to again Google or Outlook that says hey, this person is sending to people, they don't really know who they are. They're not sending to valid email addresses. And that's not something that like a normal human being in day to day life would do. So you're clearly sending some sort of unsolicited email. So keep that in mind. And so when we go into the list building piece here, we're going to talk a little bit about validating emails and how important that is. So on the list building side of the world, I like to say that the list is the strategy. So if you are thinking of who you want to target, how you want to put together a campaign, putting together your prospecting list, the list is the strategy that you are going to deploy. And what do I mean by that is if I go off and just get a random list from Apollo or any of these other providers, I just pull a list of titles. Now all of a sudden I've got this list of scientists at companies, one to 500 employees. But that's not a really targeted list. And so if that were my list, I would say that you don't really have a strategy. You're not really, there's no strategy behind how you're thinking about targeting these people. In an ideal world, you're segmenting that list into very hyper specific focus areas where it might be something like these people are hiring for a scientist or something in the job description is related to the product or service that we deliver. It might be, I want to be targeting VPs of translational sciences, of companies that have just announced or that are about to announce potentially an IND of some variety or maybe you're looking at, I want to target VPs of clinical development that have just finalized or published data around a phase one trial, something like that. Where you're trying to get super specific with how you're thinking about your list. It could even be, I want to Go figure out across all of these companies that I want to target, what are the cell types that they're likely using in their labs. And so doing some analysis to figure that out. And then now you have a list of like hyper specific companies and the data around each of their cell types so you can know how to tailor your message to them as an example. Right. These are just like sort of ideas. And so it kind of comes down to the creativity of who do you want to target and why are you targeting them and what's the purpose behind it. And so that's why I think the list is so important. And so when you start to build this list, you need to validate emails. So validating emails, there's lots of different email validation tools out there, but you need to make sure that they're actually valid emails that you're sending to before you send them. Otherwise again, you're going to go above that 3% bounce rate. A couple of other things that are nice to do is if you are doing a campaign, if you can score and rank your leads based on priority. One really cool thing with, when you launch any new campaign is that that campaign is the sort of like first time that messaging is going out outbound. So Google and Outlook are basically looking for signs that says, hey, is this message valuable? Is this message getting interacted with? And so if you prioritize your top best fit prospects at the top of your target list and they get that messaging first, it's setting a positive signal to Google and Outlook that hey, this message is relevant. So I'm going to make sure I put this message higher up in the priority list and it's going to be more likely to end up in people's inbox, right? So if you can use like AI or something to score and rank those leads based on like sets of criteria to do that for you, there's a couple other things in here around like monitoring signals. I mentioned some of those. Right. So it's like if you do the, the normal ones, which are like funding, somebody announces funding, like everybody has access to that data. So in ideal world, you're able to find unique data points that you can use in order to target people around those unique data points. So now we've got the list, now you got to figure out what the hell do I say to these people, right? So when it comes to messaging, if you've done any sort of messaging stuff with us in the past, you've been on any of the other webinars, you probably noticed some similarities here. With what we're talking about. But your messaging should always be problem focused over product focused. So what are the problems that you can solve for those people? Right? What are the problems that you can solve for them? People react. Daniel Kahneman had a he was a guy who wrote a book called Thinking Fast and Slow and was awarded the Nobel Prize for decision making. And one of his theories that he identified was something called prospect theory, where people feel the pain of loss two times more than they feel the joy of gain. And so simply based off of that, that means we should be targeting around problems because people want to solve the problems that they have. And if you can solve problems for people, you're more likely to get them to actually want to take action. Subject lines keep them short and sweet. One to three words. Ideally you make them look boring like an internal email. If you use words like improve, enhance, accelerate, any of these sorts of words is going to scream like it's a marketing or sales email. So just literally don't do it. Try and make them short and sweet. Like it could be something as simple as like data or like cell line data or you know, meet up at slas, right? Keep your subject line super short and sweet. Same thing goes for your messaging. Messages should be under 100 words ideally, but if you want to keep it under 125 that's fine as well. Reason for that is that's what fits on a mobile device. So most of your prospects prospects are going to open up their email on their mobile device and so 125 words fits on there without having to scroll. So it's really quick and easy to say, ah, I can open this email, I can read it very quickly and I can decide if I'm going to respond. Another piece that I think people don't fully realize is the importance of unique messages to people. And this kind of ties back to the idea of personalization and relevance. But a unique what Google and Outlook can do is they can quote, unquote, fingerprint your email. So the words that you are putting in your email are basically getting fingerprinted from Google and Outlook. And so because of that they can determine does this message get a set of responses or a set of interactions. And if it does not, then we will deprioritize it. But if you are continuously writing hyper personalized and relevant messaging, you're less likely to get that message to be fingerprinted. So if you're sending one template to a thousand people, that message might see a little bit traction at the beginning and Then taper off and then lose its effectiveness pretty quickly. So if you've ever seen that in one of your campaigns, that's probably why that's happening. Cool. All right. Other two ones here are use a soft call to action. Not everybody wants to jump on a 30 minute call. So do something else as a call to action, like open a chat, kind of send over some data, things of that nature. Always focus on them versus you. Nobody cares about what you do, they care about solving their problems. Last piece here is around follow up. We should be using at least six different touches across different channels. Reason for that is not everybody is going to see your first email. Not everybody spends all their time on email. Not everybody spends their time on LinkedIn. Right. But people like to respond in different channels to the channel they like best. Now the other piece I want to talk about from a follow up perspective is when it comes to actually replying to your positive responses and the negative ones, if you get a negative response, you should respond to it. And you should either objection, handle say hey, thanks for letting me know things that you want to respond to those because it sends a positive signal that there's back and forth interaction happening between your inbox and other people. Also gives you a chance to handle objections for those negative replies. For positive replies, respond as soon as possible. If you can respond within like 10 minutes, that's perfect. If you wait a day to respond to a positive reply, you're just literally wasting all the effort that you put into your outbound campaigns. And if somebody does reply positively and they do want to meet or they do want some information and you follow up and then they don't reply, I keep following up with them. Be persistent, don't give up. I see too many people just give up right away to not be pushy. When in reality people just forget stuff. Their inbox gets cluttered. So you have to stay top of mind as much as you can. Cool. Here are some list building tools that you can use. So these are tools that you can use to help find contact details information on different people. We'll send you guys these slides too so you guys can look through it. But clay is a great tool. It's a little bit more complex. There's a few others here that have different sort of specialities that you can use for this building. You'll see OpenAI in there too. So ChatGPT also a tool that can be used for this building and then email validation and finding tools. So these are tools that you can basically use to find contact details for individuals. Or you can take email addresses that you've already found and validate them to make sure that they are legit. There's another one I didn't put on here, it's called Neverbounce. Also there's many of these different tools out there that you can leverage. Cool. And so as I wrap up here, I just kind of wanted to showcase this. This is like a pretty wild graphic, but it's kind of how I like to think about the orchestration that occurs across all of your prospecting. So the thing that we kind of talked about today is a little bit of stuff right in here, maybe getting down into email outreach as well. But in an ideal world you're basically able to capture signals and intent from your organic content, from your paid ads, from external news sources or external signals that are out there. And you funnel these things in to generate hyper targeted lists. And then you have some sort of like control center such as Clay, where you can run a whole bunch of really cool AI automations and workflows enrichments to really make sure that you're targeting people effectively. And then from there you can funnel that into how do you actually take action on those people? So what are the different channels that you leverage in order to then generate meetings? And so one of the things that we do here at Succession, I hinted at this earlier is we'll basically like build all of this for you, you and your company. And so taking off all of the heavy lifting of like the list, building the email infrastructure, message creation to basically do this outreach on your behalf. So that way you can just focus on clients, show up to your door and then you basically pitch and close. So that's something that we do a lot for all of our clients. And then something else that we are that I wanted to highlight for you all is actions that you can take right now. So I shared a whole bunch of information and so I'm going to distill it down into four things that you can do today that will make the biggest difference in your outreach. Number one is turn off your open rates, your tracking, update your signatures and don't include any sort of links and attachments in your messaging. Right. That's sort of like step one, do that and that'll be great. Two, set up Google alerts for any sort of like different signals that are relevant for you, like hiring news, any of those types of things and then leverage that as part of your list building effort to target the right companies. Three, make your messaging shorter, focus it all about them and the problems you solve. So stop pitching your product and start focusing on the problems that you solve. Make it more about them versus you. And then lastly, be persistent with your follow up and follow up with those positive responses immediately. And if there's anything that you guys want to take away from this is we're actually launching a brand new, more in depth course for people all around prospecting. Obviously email is going to be a core component of that, but we're basically putting together the wait list for it. This will be a lot of great content, brand new content. We're going to basically be leveraging all of the the data that we have from the last two years of doing outreach for companies and building these sort of systems and processes and we're basically going to be sharing that with you all. So that way you can dig into the details. And then this is what we're thinking from a pricing perspective is it'll be 199 but because you all decided to show up here and you have this little QR code where you can get access to the wait list is if you sign up for the wait list, we'll basically give it to you for only 99. So you'll be able to get a code, get access to this be pretty cost effective way. And this is going to be way more than just cold email. There's going to be so much great content in this prospecting course. I think it's going to be super valuable for everybody and hopefully that's at a price point where you can expense it through the company as well. And if you can't, it should be worthwhile for you as well. But then to sweeten it even more is if you're willing to intro us to your sales leader on your team, we'll actually give it to you for free and we may even give you a little kickback if we ever just end up working together either in some training capacity or in a, you know, outbound lead gen capacity. So that's all I have for you today and we're a couple minutes over, we had technical difficulty. So thank you all for who are able to make it here with us today and we will make sure we share the slides and the recording with everyone.

I said in the chat if you want to do questions, we'll stick around. We're happy to be here. We just didn't want to monopolize all your time. What he said, anyone that still is around, even if you want to write in the chat, was this information new to you? Was it? Was there some areas we could have gone deeper for you or you as a hosting for.

Here's a question. Is Apollo a reliable platform to gather contacts from? Yeah, I mean it is. So there's a couple things related to Apollo. The with Apollo it is pretty good at finding contacts at specific companies and some of their email addresses. The problem with Apollo is you can't trust their email validation. And, and so any email that you get from Apollo I would further verify and validate with another service provider. So whether that be lead magic find email or like a never bounce, I would always validate their emails because we've done a lot of list building and they have a lot of like bad emails. So you'll end up with high bounce rates if you just like pull Apollo data and then use it right away. What types of personalized information do you like to include in a concise email? So this depends on I think the list that you're targeting and this is where it comes back to like the list being the strategy. So for the example I gave of companies that are using specific cell types in their research as an example, like the personalization could be like hey, I was on your website, looks like you're doing, I don't know, car T cell therapies. I imagine you're probably working with primary T cells and then you can basically jump into it. Right. So it's like that is like a relevant level of personalization. I think also when we talk about personalization it doesn't mean hey I saw you went to like XYZ University or I saw that you walk your dog on like Main street Thursday at 3pm like that's not the type of personalization.

Yeah, one thing I wanted to comment on Ryan, your comment about turning on tracking rates in the use High Spot. If I'm remembering this correctly, High Spot's the cool tool where you can see how much of people have like opened of your desk and tracking on the information and the content you've sent them. That information can still be valuable but you don't want to add links and stuff in your first couple of emails. Once people respond you if you want to send something back to them that has that high spot in it, I don't particularly see an issue with that just to say because I think it's some good information.

Yeah, use High Spot for your follow ups, not for your cold email. So it's a great tool. Yeah, yeah, High Spot's great tool but use it for follow ups. It's like especially a post call that you've had with somebody or even when they reply then it's a great way to like share a deck or share some of that like microsite stuff with them. Yeah.

Because that's like basically almost like using a signal board as well. Because I remember I used to use it. And then you send it out, you see the, they've watched or looked through the deck and then like two weeks later they open it again. That's the perfect time to, oh, I'm just touching base, see how things are going and because I've seen that you're interested in blah, blah, you know, that's great.

Yeah. One other thing. Yeah. There will be a recording available, so we will share this with everybody.

How many days should I wait before sending out the first follow up message? Second and third and so on.

Yeah, I think it depends again sort of on what you're thinking is in that second and third email. So if your second email is going to be talking about like a new problem or something, you probably may want to like give it some time. But if you're doing like a follow up that has additional context. The first email, like you could send it the next day, you could send it two days later, three days later. I think that it is less important on like the time at which you are sending it and more important on like the quality of what that message has in it. Yeah, like, yeah, I think that's more. And then what I wouldn't do is probably go beyond three emails that are threaded in the same reply because then you're just like reminding the person over and over that they haven't responded to you. So I'd like to do like either one or two, sometimes three bursts of messaging that are kind of threaded but they're all related to the same sort of topic.

And just to comment on Cassandra, it's not entirely new, but it's overwhelming and she's been reading that newsletter. So I would say just start doing some of it.

Right.

Because we, we sit and we present this like we're infallible and we don't make any of these mistakes where in reality when we're busy or we're trying to get through stuff, I'll, I'll do some of these things by accident. Something I was going to be like, oh crap, I've got to practice what I preach, you know, like it's, it's an iterative cycle of continually reminding yourself of what you need to do and keeping track of what's working right now with prospecting. So just keep going.

Yeah, I think like picking off one or two things to focus on. That's why I wanted to leave you with like four things to focus on because there's a lot of stuff to think about. HubSpot is the worst for delivering email. Agreed. I don't know about the worst. I actually have heard that the Apollo sequencer is pretty bad right now from a deliverability perspective. Yeah. I don't want to get into like the really deep nerdy reasons as to why, but there are quite a lot, quite a bit of them. I think from a, I think, I think from a HubSpot perspective, you're probably better off just sending out of your normal inbox versus using a secret sequencer. In a lot of cases, if you're using some of these, like, you know, tools that mandate that they're tracking open rates and like they have all this additional sort of like tracking info on them. Yeah. Like the way that these tools basically send messaging is they have like specific IPs that the messages go out through. And so sometimes those IPs can get blocked, like broadly, like where they can know like, hey, like, people using These types of IPs are typically sending like spammy messages. And so like Google or Outlook are going to downgrade those types of sends. The other thing that is like, through your HubSpot is like maybe already a chance that your main domain has been burned. And so that would be a potential problem as well.

I am, I'm getting ahead of myself because I'm reading the questions, but I love Cassandra's next question. I actually hadn't thought about segmenting in that way. Personally, I don't know if you have. And it was should you approach Boomers versus Gen Z differently in the way in which you target them?

So I actually, there's a different approach that I would take to this, but it's, it's, it's a similar concept which is that people prefer to be interacted with in different ways. And so what? There's two ways I like, I would like to think about this. One is that you want to try all of the different channels when you're reaching out to people in an ideal world, like you're able to call, you're able to use LinkedIn, you're able to use email, like even ship, send somebody a direct mail, show up in person, whatever. Like, if you're able to leverage all of those tools, you have the best chance of finding how that person likes to communicate. That being said, there are some really cool services out there where you can give them a list of phone numbers. And what they'll do is they will go have like, I don't know, test, basically they have a group somewhere call these numbers to see who picks up those phone numbers. And is it the person that you're trying to reach? And, and what they'll then do is send you back a validated list of people who pick up the phone. And so then you can basically take that list and target that list with phone because you know that those people are more likely to answer the phone. And so then you're not wasting your time calling through, you know, corporate decision trees and all that kind of stuff or calling people that are less likely to pick up.

So for Esther's question. Hi Esther, by the way, you may want to start talking about email wall up, warm up tools. Harrison, I know this is your passion, so I'm guessing that's what she's getting out there.

Yeah. So if you're brand new to setting up inboxes and domains, the ideal state is that you have like you set up some sort of warm up pool or you, and you put those inboxes into a warm up pool. And what that means is it's basically all of these other people warming up their inboxes together and they're just sending each other nonsense that look like actual messages. And what it does is it's like, hey, I'm going to email you from my inbox. You're going to reply to it and I'm going to reply to you. And so it looks like you're sort of building up this infrastructure of positive responses. And so your emails start to get like interactions with them early on in the warm up period. So that way when you then go to start your outbound campaigns, you are, you have this sort of like built up reputation. Typically you want to do like two to three weeks of warm up for that to occur. One other interesting thing to do though is to actually leave warm up on all the time. So that way you're sending a certain number of warm up emails every day and so you're getting responses to your emails as well. And so that way if you were to say in aggregate, even if you had a low cold email reply rate, if you also are doing warm ups, it sort of aggregates and increases your aggregate reply rate across those. Hope that helps answer the question. Cool. I think we've got through them. Unless there's any others that anybody wants to add, we still got quite a few people in the call. All right, well if that's all it's been a pleasure. Hopefully, this was informative for everybody. And we'll follow up with the recording and then we'll also share the deck as well.

Yeah, and if you want any help with this, get us an intro to your sales leadership, and we'll try and convince them to do some of this stuff for you. If you are sales leadership, you should have booked a call already. Shame on you.

Yeah.

Take care, everyone. Enjoy your weekend.

See y'. All.