How to Answer “Do you take insurance?” with Aaron Lebauer

That's what people are trained to ask and we don't even get the chance to build a personal relationship with them. If we just say no, we're not in network or we don't take your insurance.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey to get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing, money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss Show. All right, everyone, welcome to the Clinic Boss Show. Today I got a good, very good friend of mine, Aaron Labourer, and he helps pts make like 6 figures without relying on insurance companies. Right. You know, and he's also an author, a famous author of a book called Cash PT Blueprint. And I remember, Aaron, like you gave me that book and you signed it and I still have it.

Right. Nice. That's awesome.

Aaron, do you remember how we first met?

Yes. We met through Jerry Durham at PPS back in like 2014 or something like that.

Yes, yes. That was a very. Was that in Vegas, that one?

It was in ve. Yes, it was in Vegas or Indianapolis. I can't remember one of those two. I interviewed you at the next one. I met you first and we were, we just had some drinks and. And I had asked Jerry, I was like, jerry, I gotta come. And I interviewed Jerry at that one and then I was the next one. He's like, yeah, you should interview Rick. And he's like, let me introduce you to Rick and Daryl. And so I interviewed you guys and then you and Daryl and one of them.

And like we did it live at pps. Like, I see the picture right here. Like you got the monitors, you got the three cameras going on and it was like live, like, you know, and everyone's getting drinking there. Right?

Yeah. That's when I could get 500 people on a live webinar for an interview of some Canadian dude who's not a pt. Right.

That was good back then. That was before content marketing exploded, right?

Yeah, yeah, it was incredible.

Yeah. And then over the years, like, we've gone to a lot of the very similar, like marketing and sales conferences over the year. Right. Like, you know, we got went to the Beedros one together.

Yep. With fitness business. I know it was 2018, I think.

Yeah.

In the spring. Yeah, that was cool.

Some of the Russell Brunson Stuff, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was.

Yeah.

Was it ClickFunnels Live and then I haven't seen you, but I haven't seen you in person in a little bit, you know, which is too long.

So that's what's next. Right? You know, so let's talk about cash. Let's talk about cash. Cash based practices and insurance based practices, shall we, Aaron?

Yeah, man, let's do it.

So I want to pick your brain, you know, because I think it's very confusing depending on what state you're in, you know, and so maybe you have the perspective of like working with like, you know, thousands of practices. What is the pros, Maybe we could do this. What is the pros and cons of like maybe running an insurance based practice, you know? Right. And then let's do the exact same thing for maybe cash after. Right.

You know, so I'm going to talk about this like from a person who's never run an insurance based practice.

Okay.

When I started my business, I was looking at it and that's what everyone said you have to do. Con number one was I was going to have to hire someone just to file insurance claims. Like back in 20 2009, it was like going to cost me just at least one employee just to file claims on. Number two, you know, you're not. At that time United Healthcare said we're only gonna pay $38 no matter what you do or how long you spend. So I was like, well, I'm gonna have to see people, you know, at least two to four people an hour to get what, you know, I could. I was already making as a massage therapist and people were coming to me because the traditional model had failed them. And okay, that wasn't gonna get me where. And then it's, you know, you know, you have to, at least in America you kind of, you wait an unidentified amount of time for the claim and the money to come in. And then another big one is, Rick, I get a lot of, and I'm going to say con is compliance. So a lot of people with their software like are trying to promote to me either as Aaron Labourer or as unsuspecting regular physical therapy business owner, that we have an app that improves patient compliance. Well, if patients are coming in and they're paying $20 copay, that session's not worth that much to them. So they're not going to do their work at home. But when they're coming and paying us hundreds of dollars an hour, they do their work at home. And I have no issue with compliance. So pro of an insurance based practice is there's very little friction. You know, it's, you know, we can get all the patients in. Yeah, it's like, are you in network? Like do you take my insurance? Your network? Yes. Yes. Okay, great. When do you want to schedule? Easy. You know, I can get people in the door. Does that mean I can help everybody or help more people? I'm gonna say no because as a massage therapist, people were coming to me who had been through traditional physical therapy and they weren't. No one had touched them where they hurt before. So the opposite of that was like, like, let's say pro for starting a cash practice is, I think number one for me is my customer is the paying party. So I make a contract directly with the patient. The contract's not with United Healthcare or Aetna or the government. And then the patient's coming in. It's not a triangular relationship. It's a direct one to one relationship where my patient decides yes or no they're going to pay. And I decide as the physical therapist with them what the treatment is. I don't have to adjust my treatment to how it's going to be reimbursed. Which is a little bit of a con of starting an in network practice to me was I'm going to be influenced in how my patient gets treated by whether I get paid or not for this or based on the billing code.

Right?

Based on the billing code. Right. Like, come on, you know, okay, I can't do more than two units of manual therapy because insurance isn't going to pay. But what if that patient needs that that time? Am I going to take a pay cut because of what the patient needs? Okay, pro of starting a cash practice. I can do things on my own terms. I don't need to worry about upsetting physicians because they don't send me patients anyways. They're not going to send me patients as a, you know, like out of network, like non in network practice. Because why would a patient and patients who come to see so con of a cash practice is patients who come in with a referral from another provider usually say no. Because if they paid a $50 copay to the physician, why would they pay me three to five times as much for PT when they're just following physicians orders and air quotes? So we become a technician and why are they going to pay the technician more? It just in their mindset, it doesn't work. But when patients decide to see me directly, they will pay that.

Yeah, I think One of the cons is like it's a struggle where like you have to, you're marketing, your sales have to be really good, you know, because they're paying like literally like you said, three times as much.

Oh yeah. The, the number one con of a cash practice is there's like 200 grit sandpaper, amount of friction to get a patient in the door. Yeah. You know it causes PT is a, is a grudge purchase. It costs money. It costs over $200 a visit to come in. I have to do, have to do marketing, I have to do sales, I have to have automations. I gotta make lots of, lots of effort to build community relationships and educate people. I have to put myself out in front of people. If I'm a kind of physical therapist that just doesn't want to be seen and heard from, I just want to do my craft. Like it's much more difficult. Like you can do an in network practice and you know, just say hi to a few people. You're just in network and people just come in the door. It doesn't rely heavily on the type of marketing that actually works.

Yeah. You know what's funny? When you describe like the cons of running a cash based practice. Yeah. That's what you do to run any business.

I know.

Like that's what you need to run like, like a medical spa or like a Starbucks or any other typical brick and mortar business like a fitness center, like a personal trainer, you know. Yep.

Maybe not a gas station because everyone needs gas and your gas station just happens to be in the lucky spot. You know, Citgo doesn't market sitgo, you know. But yes, you're right. Like it is. I actually have to learn, do and teach marketing and sales and that's what when you have a in network PT clinic you don't need to really rely on marketing and sales. You can do a little bit or a little bit of marketing you and but it's not actually like real marketing because the person coming in isn't making the decision to pay or not. That's a third person and someone else is likely authorized them to come in which is the physician or other provider. Very few people are, Some people might be listening to like he's totally wrong. But very few people in the overall scheme of things are making a decision to go to physical therapy and they come into a traditional clinic without a referral, pretty much anywhere and go, yeah, I'm willing to pay. Oh great, it's a copay. Oh, that's less than I'm willing to pay.

Cool.

That's not happening because no one really knows what physical therapy is anyways so they're not really searching it out.

Yeah, well said, well said. And I'm curious like you know, what percentage, what percent of the market you think is cash based practices right now in the US? Oh, it's a small percentage, right? 3 to 5%, you know.

Yeah, I think, yeah, 3 to 5% probably, I mean it's probably growing but I doubt, I really doubt it's 10%.

Okay.

You know, I think that'd be really generously high. I think. Yeah, you're probably right. 3 to 5%. I mean there's thousands of cash practices but you know, how big are they? There's, there's plenty of them. There's hundreds that are multiple therapists and you know, they've been around for a long time but I just don't, I don't even have the data.

Yeah, like you know, you work with thousands of like, you know, like PTs, you know, like what's the typical like size of like a cash based practice? You see, is it a typical solopreneur that bills 100, $200,000? Is that like, is that your typical of what you see for a typical cash based practice?

Yeah, I think majority of them are some. I think there's a lot of people that are doing it as a side hustle or you know, maybe not taking it 100% seriously but then a major, I would say a big bulk of them, maybe at least 60% or one person, maybe an admin, but probably not doing somewhere between 85 and $200,000 a year somewhere in there. And then there's a good chunk that have multiple therapists and staff and they're doing you know, you know, 250 to a million or a million and a half or more. You know, I know there's some that.

Are, but that's a small percentage, right? Like that's probably like the 20%, right?

Yeah, yeah.

The 80% is like they had themselves a job, you know, like it's building a hundred thousand dollars, maybe $150,000. It's better than working at one of the, you know, the big corporates, you know, making like your hourly salary, you know. Right.

And the thing, and someone doing it by themselves can make a great living doing it. But most people aren't priced correctly. They're afraid to sell. They get good at the marketing and, and they're doing themselves a disservice. They could be making 250 a year. By themselves. And they're not there, you know, and they're underpriced. And I mean, I've seen people 10 years in the game super underpriced. And you know, they could, they're like, I want to make. Ultimately they want to make more, but they say they want more patience, but what they really want is more money, but they don't want to adjust their pricing model to bring in more revenue. And, you know, that's the biggest fear that we all have.

Crazy. Crazy. So do you know a guy named Ben Baggy? Like. Yep.

Yeah, Ben was one of my, one of my clients.

Okay, cool. Because, because I, I, you know, he's within the community. I chat with him. Last week we did a, we did a podcast together. His Clinic is doing 1.5 million of cash, you know, and, and his profit, like, and it's not just a sole practitioner. He has like multiple practitioners and he's doing like over 30 plus percentage of, you know, profits. I'm just like, that is like, that is an insane scalable model. That's a business you want to own, right?

It's awesome. Yeah. He came in, remember he started working with me. He was doing like 20k a month. He did like in his first year, I think he got my book. Then he did his first year and he was like, didn't want to. Built up something six figures, didn't want to leave. And he started working with me. We'd gotten to 60k a month within like four or five months. And then he opened another location in San Diego. And then I was like, hey, you want to. He wants to open one in Iowa. I was like, free debt. You got to do it. You got to test. You got to do a stress test and interest. And it was, yeah, it was great. It was amazing to see how he did it and how he grew and. Yeah.

And Aaron, what would you say is like, you know, what separates that sole preneur, cash based practice versus like maybe someone like a Ben who's doing over a million bucks. Like, you know, what do you think are the skills that are missing, you know, that will get in there, you know?

Yeah, you know. Cause I would, you know, shout out to Ben, he did six figures his first year out of school and then he did, you know, half a million. His like second year, you know, or we did two. He did over 250. And then, you know, I mean, he's three years out of school and he did a million dollars. So it's not skill and it's not age. I Think it's two things. It's exposure and belief. You know, exposure to people who are doing it and belief that you, that's what you belonged. That's where you belong, you know, and then there's the, and then there's the, the systems that I can, you know, help, you know, get you there faster.

It's like, hey, you know, like if you're gonna run a real business, like, you gotta get really good, like with marketing, because you got generate leads because you're not dependent on the insurance company, you know, whether you're in network or out of network or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever that is. Or. And then secondly is like, you gotta be good at like, hey, these leads come in. How do you convert those like leads, you know, which is sales in this case, you know, not only to come on the first appointment and to pay, but also to like, you know, complete the plan of care. Whether it's like six or ten visits, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And what I think the biggest thing is, especially we start talking about sales, people think, oh, it's, oh, I have to convince people to pay cash, you know, so I'll do something. Like how to convince people to pay cash. We're not actually going to convince them to do anything. What we need to do is ask people the right questions. We ask them questions about what's going on, how long has been a problem, what they've tried that hadn't worked, et cetera. And then we start building value. And it's almost like we're coaching people into understanding that we're the right place.

Place.

But we're not coercing them into thinking we're the right place. And if they're not, we're not the right place for them, then we're not. But we have to ask people questions. Sales isn't just let me tell you about why we're better and why it's maybe cheaper even if it's cash versus a network. Sales is about asking questions and letting the other person talk and then seeing if we have a solution to the problem that they explained.

Can you repeat that again? Because I think that was really powerful because I think a lot of people, when, when I think about sales, I think it's like this like super dirty word. I think about that used car salesman and you're like, that is not sales. It's not trying to convince someone, right, you know, to buy A better than B because it's cheaper and better or.

Yep, yeah, sales isn't convincing or telling someone why we're better. It's not, I think, who's to say my clinic's better than yours? You know, it's, you know, whether I'm in network, router, network. It's not for me to tell them. It's not for me to say, hey, you know, hey, even though it's cash, it's only going to cost you $2,000. And you go in network, it's going to be 2,500. Like, now we're in a logic conversation, and the other person can argue their way out of it, but if we ask questions and find out what they need and do, they have a big problem. And then one of the keys to sales is stretching the gap. They're like, yeah, I just want to get back to running, like, because I was told, like, I should never run again. And you say, hey, you know, is that. Did you used to run a 5K? Yeah. I was like, have you ever run, you know, a marathon or half marathon? Oh, I wanted to, but my knee started hurting, and then I was told running was going to give me arthritis. I was like, well, if I could get you to a point where you could train or at least run and train for a half marathon or a marathon without making your knee pain worse, or we're giving you arthritis, is that something you'd like to work on together? Like, absolutely. I'd love that. And now we stretch the gap from just getting back to running and doing a 5K to, dude, I need to. We need to train for 18 months to get you to a marathon if you haven't run in a long time. Now, I've created this gap there. No one else is going to create that gap. The desire and they have to have the belief that they can do it. And then I can now I can sell them into this program to. To get them there, you know, and that's easy sale because the other in network clinic isn't going to have that conversation. Yeah.

So it's really about, you know, maybe the way you look at sales is about being curious, you know?

Right. Yeah, it's curious. I need to ask questions to find out do they have a problem that I can solve.

Yeah. So what is your favorite. What were. What would you say is your top favorite questions on that first, like, call that you have where you have a lead? Calling in your clinic that is like, you know, that is.

Yeah.

Calling your clinic, you know. Yeah. And they start off with, like, the logic part of the conversation is like, hey, are you in network?

Right? Are you in network?

Are you in network?

So when they ask that, I say, hey, you know, can I get your name, by the way? This is Dr. Labourer. What's your name? You know, like, they'll call me like, are you in network? I'm like, you know, hey, this is Dr. Labour. You know, can I ask who's speaking? They go, is Jennifer? I mean, great, you know, that's. And I'll say, that's an important question. Is it okay if I ask you a few questions first to find out and see if we can help you? And if we can, we'll talk about what that looks like. If I can't, I'll point you in the right direction.

Cool.

Yeah, I like that.

It's very non obtrusive, right? Yeah.

Yeah, because that's what people want to know. They, they've been trained by the medical system, at least here in the United States, that the most important things are your date of birth and whether we take your insurance. And then maybe what doctor sent you here? You know, what doctor are you here for? People have asked me this, like, what doctor are you here for? I'm like, I'm not here for a doctor. I'm here for myself. You know, I'm here for, you know, like, I'm not here for somebody else. But that's what they're asking and that's what people are trained to ask. And we don't even get the chance to build a personal relationship with them. If we just say, no, we're not in network, or we don't take your insurance. Yeah.

And then what happens after that? You know, like, so, so you say that and what, what other opening questions like, do you, yeah, in that first.

Call, I'll say, you know, can you tell me what's gone, what's going on? You know, that you're looking for physical therapy is, you know, you know, and they'll either tell me they have an injury, et cetera, and then I'll say something like, well, what have you tried to solve this problem? And, and what happened? You know, they're like, oh, I've been here and, or I got this MRI and here's X, Y and Z, nothing happened, or it happened, helped and it didn't. And then I might ask, well, what's most frustrating part about this? So now I want to do is take the knife and twist it a little bit. I got to dig in to the problem.

You're adding salt to the wound. You're adding salt to the wound.

Right, But I'm not, I didn't convince, I didn't tell him anything about why my practice is better.

You're just asking questions to find out more about the problem. Right.

I just want to know, like, Rick, tell me what's the most frustrating part about this whole thing for you? And then they'll tell me. And then they say, hey, if I could snap my fingers, produce one outcome or one result with your body or how it works or how it feels in the next 90 days, what would that be? And how would it change your life? And I'll say, if I could produce one, if I could snap my fingers, produce one outcome working together. So one outcome in your body or the way it feels or how it moves with us working together, what would in the next 90 days, what would that be? And how would it change your life? And so now I want to know, like, this is the goal. What they really want, people don't want. You generally want pain relief.

I'm gonna play pickleball again.

Aaron, play pickleball. Why do you want to play pick? And then I gotta ask the seven why's. Why is pickleball important to you? Oh, because I feel fit and healthy and why fit and feeling fit and healthy? Important because I want to be a good role model for my kids and feel calm and focused when I get home after work. That's what we're selling. We're not selling range of motion and pain relief.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. That was magic. I love, like, everything that you brought up was, but you just asking more questions. And my hunch is, like, when you're having these conversations with them, they're probably doing majority of the talking. Yeah. And you're just like, in essence, just, you know, like, asking more and more questions, Going deeper.

Yeah. Sometimes I have to kind of like, redirect people or cut them off. We won't. We'll generally do it where they call in and we ask a few questions and see, like, can I help you? Is this a problem I can solve? Cool. Let's get you in to the clinic in person for a, you know, a longer session. We call it a total body diagnostic. It's a 20 to 30 minute visit. And then I can go deeper in there, and then at the end of that, I can then make an offer for the plan of care that I recommend. The other thing is, I don't let patients choose. Do you want to come in once a week or twice a week, or do you want the eight visit package or the 12 visit? That's not appropriate as a healthcare provider. The patients don't get to choose the medicine and the dosage. I do.

It's like when you see a doctor that just tells you what to do. Here it is. Don't question what I'm saying.

So based on what you shared with me, this is what we need to do. And people go, oh, that's kind of expensive. And I go, yeah, it kind of is. Yeah. You know, but it's designed. And it's designed to help you get the result you just told me that you want.

So this is all the first call, or this is like on your first visit?

First call, then first visit.

Okay.

You know, because you'll get the objections. Usually the first visit, like around price. Sometimes on the first call, people are like, well, but you don't. Well, can you tell me about the insurance? How does the insurance work? And generally, I try to. Like, the first time, I'll deflect and say, hey, can I ask you some other questions? Second time I'll say, hey, you know what? I really need to see you in person to understand, to really give you a good, clear idea about your investment in time and finances and effort to solve this problem. So is it okay if we book in a time in person to go through it? Because I really need to touch you and see you move before I can tell you exactly what is. And people go, well, I just need to know how much it's gonna cost. I'm like, well, I really. I don't know how many visits it's gonna take. Whether you're gonna. It's gonna be 12 weeks, 12 months. You know, maybe one visit. Maybe once I see you and I look at you and I go, yeah, no, we're completely inappropriate because there's some test I do, and this isn't like a muscle problem or a joint problem.

I love that.

I can see our. We have prices that range from 75 to $50,000, you know, but I just don't know where in there this is going to fall yet.

I love that. And then. And then, and then. Is that first visit a paid visit or is it like a free consult?

We used to do it free. And then pandemic came, and really just to. Because we had to clean and everything, we started charging. We started at $35. I was like, oh, let's just make it like a couple copay. But then people. It was too close to a copay. And the first visit pricing, and people like, oh, my God, that's way. You know. So we changed it to $75. And then we had no issues with our. With Our next visit, pricing. And generally I've got, we do 75. Still haven't changed it because it's not broken. I've got clients doing 99, 125 with this. Generally the way that we do it here in my clinic is you come in for the total body diagnostic and if you leave and you've paid in full for your plan of care or you've paid ahead for your first visit, you don't pay for the $75. Okay. You know, but if you leave and go, think about it, you pay 75 and walk out and you can come be our patient next time.

So you're charging 75 or 99, you know, and you're saying like this is better than doing the free because they've actually put money down and they're committed.

To come, they're going to show up. And we have, we don't have anyone like free versus paid that. We don't have less people coming in, but we have more people show up. Rate is better and conversion rate is better.

Okay.

You know, we don't have more, which is what matters.

Like, you know, your arrive rate, you know, and, and, and what do you call this? You call it the total diagnostic plan? Is that what you call it?

A total body diagnostic?

So a total body. And why do you have you tried other stuff? Or, or, or that's the best performing one I have.

We can do a free consultation. But you know what, man? I coached with Bedros for five years. So when we met at his event, I went up and I was like, all right, I'm working with Bedros. What, what do I do? Not this mastermind, not now. He was like. And, and this sales guy was like, oh, he's got a 12 month mentorship and Bedros, through one of his trainings is teaching the total body diagnostic that the personal trainers do. I was like, dude, I'm taking that name. He's like, go for it, you know.

Because he gave me auto body diagnostic.

Body diagnostic, a tbd. There's discovery visits and I think Paul Goff brought that in and you know, there's consultations.

I hate the discovery visit because like that's like such a software term. Like what are they discovering, you know?

Right, right. And I think that it works. And maybe that's more of a British, you know, term on it, but to me, I'm going to take you through a full body diagnostic exam. And I was like, total body diagnostic, that's, that's exactly what I do. And one of my missions is to make sure that when patients get hurt or injured, they. They don't think I need an MRI to know what's going on. They think I need a total body diagnostic to know exactly what's going on.

You know, I love that. So that. So you like that more than the free consult, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay, we talk, we talk. But a total body, full body, a diagnostic. I, you know, like, chiropractors do an X ray, you know, so it's like a.

It's like a. It's like a mini MRI done by human.

Yep, exactly. 100%.

I like that.

Yeah.

Total. Yeah.

And.

And sorry. And. And you took this off like a personal trainer, is that.

Yeah, Bedros is, you know, like, thing is like, they do a total body diagnostic in his personal training sales process. Like, dude, I was like, like, that's.

What I trust Bedros because Bedroom runs, like, thousands of, like, personal training studios, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's the, you know, founder of Fit Body Boot Camp. You know, I mean, they've got hundreds and hundreds of locations, and it's great. And, you know, as a coaching client of his, he was like, yeah, take it, steal it. You know, and that's what I do with my coaching clients. I'm like, here, yeah, here's the things that work for me. Take it, steal it, make it better, and then teach it back to our group.

Yeah. And then, hey, Aaron, just on that point, because, you know, like, I'm a big fan of a bedroom, you know, like, you know, and he's. He's dominating the personal training, like, industry, you know? You know, and what would you say is, like, maybe the top, you know, like 10 things or five top, top things that, like, you know, PTs can learn from, like how a personal trainer runs their business. Yeah, right.

Number one personal trainers. This is what Bedros said to me, where I was like, dude, I'm struggling. He's like, yeah, he's like, my guys, personal trainers, they know they're dumb. They're. They're. They're not smart enough and they need to do what I say, you know, like, they do what I say. It's something like, as pts, we're so smart that we're. We second guess everything and we think too much and we take way too much time to make decisions in business, you know, and be like, yeah, personal trainers, they know. They don't know anything. He's like, he. I. I didn't go to community college. I went to community college one semester and they're just like, yeah, dude, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And they're making you and I were you me and Darrell and Kareem are in this room and there were more personal trainer millionaires than at pps. I mean it was insane, dude. And I was like, whoa, Rick, look at this. I was like, holy shit. Like I am like been hanging around the wrong people. I think that's number one is that pts, physios, we're smart enough that we overthink too much stuff and business, you don't need to be that smart for business. Number number two, I think I know more of the personal trainers in those rooms with bedros are taking their fitness and their health seriously than physical therapists. That I know more physical therapists these days in 2024. But you know, 10 years ago, I mean I don't not as many physical therapists. I think we take our, like in PT school, man, we didn't have time to work out. I think I gained 20 pounds in PT school. I mean, come on, you know, like I went on my six month clinical rotation, had to buy a pair of, you know, pair of pants that fit, you know, and then within a month that was gone. I just don't, I think our own, our own ability to like train, work out, you know, eat our own medicine, get our own physical therapy. It's not just training, working out and weight. It's like so many physical therapists come into catch practice.

Trainers are all usually very fit and like, yeah, like they are practicing and.

Between training clients are doing push ups, you know, between training clients. You know, I'm not jabbing myself with a needle or doing my corrective, you know, I mean I train every day with kettlebells, but massage therapists, we were encouraged to go get massage from other people. I talk to pts all the time and they've, you know, they're like, they're afraid to sell. I'm like, well go get, go pay for some pt. Well one, maybe no one here, but they've never, they are not getting it for themselves. Like we should, you know, like we want our patients to. So that's, that's two things. I, two big things I think.

Well, personal traders are also, also really good with sales. Right. You know, like they're good with like, they're good with like motivating, getting people asking the questions and I hate to say it, like, you know, selling the plan of care on day one.

Yeah, right. Pedro's had I think one of his videos or he had this proof on one of his Sales pages was he did $85,000 worth of personal training sales in one day.

85,000? Yeah.

Like this is, I think he was working for like Lifetime Fitness or someone else, but he sold that much and he got a percentage of it and he was selling 12 and 18 month programs. You know, we're sitting here going, oh, well I can get you three visits. Like I know pts are like, I get people better in one visit and two visits. I'm like, why do we need to, you know, like, like brag about getting people better in less visits? Like it's what is better, Rick. Like better is like, what do I want my parents to have? Like, parents should get PT every week for the rest of their life. They both have things that need to improve and we're afraid to sell that to our patients. Like even in network, he's like, oh no, their insurance benefits right now I couldn't possibly charge them $75 to come see me because I'm not worth that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Those are the three big ones.

Yeah, the, the sales one. So, you know, and, and one thing I will also add too is that like they're really good with like getting buy in from the clients and motivating them like when, like they have objections. Right. You know, and that's something I see a lot of PTs or CAIROs in our community do. Is that like, you know, like they're almost scared of the patient. They won't challenge them.

Right, Right. Oh yeah, they don't. Like there's personal trainers out there doing stuff they shouldn't be doing because PTs are afraid to do it. Like they're like, oh, if I roll this roller on you, then it's you touching the roller. But yet that's still a violation of the PT and Massage practice act in a lot of places. But there's no personal trainer practice act. But massage therapists, PTs, we're not helping our patients beyond just good enough, beyond what insurance will pay for. Insurance isn't going to pay for the minimum amount and we need to be willing to help patients beyond that. Personal trainers are going to try to come and do it and they're like, yeah, I can do this. And they're out there prescribing exercises when they really shouldn't be. But yet they're still personal trainers but they're prescribing exercises to fix a pain or condition because no one else is willing to do it.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. If you enjoy my content, I write a clinic owner newsletter. I share with you what's trending right now in marketing, selling your business, recruitment operations, front desk and more. Become a better clinic owner. Join over 22,000 clinic owners who get this free newsletter each week. Go to clinicowner.com to sign up today. So, Aaron, if I want to open a cash practice, you know, and hit my first $250,000, you know, like what I need to do in the first like 90 days or 100 days.

Yeah, there's two things besides having like legally you can do it. The, the number one thing you have to do is be priced correctly. So you have to think, okay, $200,000 I need to be making. Let's say that's about, was it like 18,000amonth, something like that. So all right, how many visits do I need to see a week? At what price? I mean it's gotta be. And you gotta be priced, I would say, you know, easily over $200 a visit. It doesn't have to. It seems like a lot. But you know what, you know, I've got bills where the insurance company is charging patients 675 a unit. Here in the United States, people are paying, it is a lot. But it's not a per visit thing. It's like, Rick, one plan of care, eight visits or 10 visits, $2,000. Yeah, I need 10 people, 10 new patients a month at a $2,000 plan of care to make $20,000 in a month, 248 a year.

That's your target. Yeah, I need 10.

Okay. So I have to be priced correctly. It can't just be like $75 a visit. I mean, I've seen people do that. But you work yourself to death and you have no time to market.

And you see, now you're 35, you might as well be in network. Right?

Yeah, yeah.

And get the referrals. Right. We agree.

And get, make it easy on yourself, have someone else do the work for you, you know, etc. And then so that's number one is you have to be priced correctly. And if you're, you could never pay that much to someone else for, for therapy or you would Never pay yourself 200 something dollars, then you shouldn't try to sell yourself at $200. But if you're not, if you're not, if you're not doing therapy over, not 150, still too low. If it's not over 175, 180, 186 is a number. It's like a 1500 $8 visit plan of care is about $187 a visit, like that's about as minimum as you can go.

But the lowest is 186 that you see inside your community.

No, no, no. People come in doing much less. Okay.

Oh, no, no, you're recomm, like, you know, look, if you look at all the best performers, right, you know, like, what's the lowest? You know, you said 186.

180 to start would be 187. I think 27. It's like I have some people, they don't have the confidence, like, look, let's just do a fifteen hundred dollar plan of care for eight visits, sell twelve of those, and then we'll go up and Jerry and Jeff Lewis, we did that and we did 12 of them. They were, they were doing like 125 a visit, you know, before they came. And now they're doing 20k months and both of them are full schedules. And they're actually doing, they're probably doing more than that, but it's, you know, and they're doing 225 a visit. But I have to start you somewhere comfortable so you can sell it. But that's the lowest. But a fifteen hundred dollar plan of care. If I sell ten of those a month, that's fifteen thousand a month instead of twenty thousand a month. And that's extra. Was it five times fifty thousand dollars a year, six thousand dollars a year lower? You know, sixty thousand dollars a year is significant. But the difference between you help someone, let's say, able to climb up to the second floor to play with their grandkids because they live in Chicago and they don't have an elevator. Okay, now what's. Is that worth an extra 500 bucks so grandma can play with her grandkids? Absolutely. You know, 500 bucks is nothing compared to the results that we give people. So number one, we have to be priced correctly. Number two, you gotta learn sales and you have to have a sales funnel.

Marketing or sales. Sales.

Okay. You can, we can do all the marketing we want. If we can't sell shit, then no one's gonna buy it.

Okay, so when you're talking about sales, you're talking about the stuff we talked about earlier. What to say on that first call, you know, and what to do, what to say on that first visit so that they actually buy the plan of care. Right.

You know?

Right. Okay.

What questions to ask. And then we have to also have an enrollment process where I can enroll them in the plan of care.

Yeah. And those are all the systems that you talk about, which is like amazing, you know, like, you know, but I still think the hardest part, and I'm just gonna be honest because I'm a marketer myself. The hardest part, you know, in this entire business process is getting someone waving their hand, you know, on the marketing side, to jump on that first call or to fill out that web form.

You know, but you could work so hard. You can do all the great things and get people, get thousands of people to raise their hands and you get on a call with them and look, Rick, I've been on calls with like famous marketers, you know, and they flubbed the sale. Like, I'm like one person. I was like, all you had to do is ask me to ask me for the sale. And I went, they didn't. Someone else is like, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. Do you think that, you know, maybe you might like to work with me one day? And I'm like, no. Like, are you serious?

Am I your first client?

You know, like, you've got this big presence. Like their sales is. So some of these, you can be a great marketer. I was on this webinar a few years ago and they're like, yeah, if we, if we convert 1, maybe 2%, we're crushing it. We're making millions a year. I'm like, dude, what if you converted at 10%? I mean, you know, I've just so, you know, we can work really hard. But if I can't sell, if I can't sell, then it's a bunch of wasted time and effort. Yeah.

So I know this business coach in the U.S. his name is called Aaron Gumm, and he works with Kairos to like do what you're talking about. And the plan of care is that they're selling is insane. You know, and it's all cash as well. They're selling 5,000, 8,000 for neuropathy. It's insane. And what you're talking about is like, I just want fifteen hundred bucks off you or two thousand dollars, right?

Yeah, yeah, two thousand dollar plan of care and then rickets. So like we want to go past 90 days. I need to be able to take that person and say, hey, look, we're also, not only are we gonna work on your neck and your headaches, we're gonna work on your hip and your knee, you know, and we should do another, you know, 10 visits or get you on our, you know, our membership program, etc. And get them back in for more and not just wait till the last visit. So there's Also, there's more of this. It's. I don't have to do marketing to give myself a raise. I just have to do. I just have to have more products and services.

So. Aaron, I'm starting from scratch. Okay. So I'm starting from scratch. I barely have a website. You know, like how, like, what are the critical things that you think needs to happen? So I could get, like, leads. So I could actually sell.

Get leads. Yeah. So we have to have. We have to be able to license, insurance, place to treat. You have to have a way to take money, and you have to wait a document. Those five things.

Sorry, can you repeat that again?

Yeah, you need, you know, your business license.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, I need my license to touch. Whatever that is. I need my insurance.

Yeah.

Documentation and somehow to take money. Yeah. I can take a check, but if you're not taking credit cards, you're missing out.

Yeah.

And then the sixth thing we need is a willing patient. Okay. Probably in your easiest. Yeah, probably in your personal network.

Yeah.

You know, 10 people who could use some physical therapy.

Okay.

What if we reach out to them and be like, hey, I. I do these as, you know, I just started, and I'm a physical therapist, start my business. I have a total body diagnostic that we're offering. It's typically $250, but this week we're doing them for 75 as an opening thing. And it's perfect for people who are injured or not, who want to perform at their best, feel and look younger than they are, and even recover from an old injury. Do you know anyone who you think would benefit and set. Five of the 10 are going to be like, I'd love one of those. And the other five will be like, well, my friend, you know, my friend so and so might want one. Hey, cool. Can you make an introduction to me?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, so that's the best way to get started is just like asking referrals from the personal network that you know. Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So you've gone through this list because there's only so many people, and you're trying to last for a year or so. Right. You know, I still get.

People come in, Rick, and they're like, I'm here because of Aaron, because I know Aaron. You know, like, I live. I live here. I'm part of town. I go to yoga. I used to teach yoga. I race bikes.

I.

You know, I'm not a hermit, actually.

Getting really involved with the community, you're saying, Right. Going in the community, local Businesses, local professionals, and, like, you know, and do business development. Ask for referrals, right?

Yeah, yeah. You don't have to ask for referrals. You just have to go. And, like, I need. I don't even ask for referrals. I just ask people, how are they doing? And who can I send to you?

Yeah. Ooh, yeah.

Who would be a good referral for me to send to you? And they go, oh, what? You know, they want to. They want reciprocity. They want to. A lot of times they'll say, hey, who can we share? Who can we send over to you?

I like that one, you know, because it's very. How do I say it? Like, you're not begging. You're just like. You're like. Because if I help you, right? And just by asking that, they're gonna actually start, like, you know, like.

And then it might not be that person directly. Like, Rick, I might say to you, you know, hey, Rick, who can I send to you? And then you don't have anyone to send to me, but someone else in my network now does. That's the. Like, this energy exchange or reciprocity, or there's a couple different words for. Doesn't have to be always back and forth on the same street. It can come down different paths. That's the abundant, you know, that's the abundance mindset. You know, I've got more to give than. Than there's possibly, you know, people that need help. So there's. That. There's also, you know, so it's the. It's the, hey, who do you know that might benefit from this? Who can I send to you? Is there anyone else, you know, in your network who you think would be a good fit? Just it's. And a lot of times people go, like, well, I would. I'm not asking you directly. Hey, do you want to come in? You know, hey, I know you had this back issue. People go, oh, I'm asking, like, them, like, do you know anyone who'd be interested? Yeah. And they'll go, like, well, I certainly am.

You know, I mean, that's a very good. That's a good. That's a good one. Yeah, I like that.

You know, it's one of those ones that works in dating, too.

You.

You know, like, I'm a marketer. I'll be like, hey, I'm looking for someone fun and active who wants to hang out. Like, do you know anyone.

Do you know anyone else in your network? Oh, geez.

But, you know, it's like, it's all sales and marketing. I mean, look, Rick, I'm a better salesperson because I teach it, but I'm a really good marketer. But I think I'm a better salesman because I've enrolled people into my programs in the coaching business in the clinic who don't belong there.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and I've had an experience where I took in my car. I think I was driving in San Francisco, and I was like, I was looking for a new car, and because I had this Jeep Grand Cherokee, it was big, took up a lot of space, but I couldn't even put my bicycles inside. I was trying to race bikes, and I went by and this used car dealer and he had a Volvo 850. It was the five speed turbo. And I was like, this is dope. And he goes, are you trading in your car? I was like, I don't know. He's like, well, hand me the keys and I'll go look at it and give you a value. And he comes back and he's like, oh, cool, we'll give you, I don't know, 6,000 or $9,000, whatever he said. And I'm sitting there and he's talking to me, but he had the keys on his side of the desk. And I was like, I need to go. He's like, yeah, but blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, he wasn't giving me the keys back. And I had to reach across the desk and grab the keys and be like, I'm out of here. Like, I can't buy this. I even told him, I said, I can't buy the car today. I have to go to work. I have to be at work in 15 minutes. And he didn't want to let me go. That's a sleazy car salesman 101. You know, that is not what we're talking about. And I believe that if we think it. If I can help you, if I can, whether it's physical therapy, chiropractic, something else, selling a car. If I truly believe that my solution solves your problem, then it's my ethical obligation to learn sales. That's the missing piece. Everyone wants to do marketing. Great. I can get you more new patients. The reason that all these Facebook ads guys are like, hey, we can get you 20 patients. The reason that they those work and everyone says it doesn't work is because they don't know how to sell people in the back end.

Yeah, yeah, well said, you know, so. And then if you were to do a couple online, what are some critical online stuff that you must have, you know, to start a cash practice.

Yeah. You don't need a website. You can just get a Facebook business page or a Facebook personal page. Critical online things.

I think that's interesting to say that I, you know, I met this, I met this, you know, a good buddy in our community and he runs a $1.8 million business. He doesn't have a website.

Nice. And.

And he has exactly that. He has a Facebook page and it just books directly in Jane. And that's it. His entire business model is exactly. We just talked about is about like having like a good referral and word of mouth.

Right?

Yeah. Right.

Absolutely. One of the things that I do, I mean so critically like online, if there's anything like it's having some kind of lead nurture system. You know, where I can. And we have with my clients in my business, I have an application funnel where patients really apply to work with us. You know, you can apply to get on a call with a PT or a Total Body Diagnostic and we ask them these questions in a form. But what it does is even if I don't do that part and I bring you in, I can follow up with you automatically with text and email and I can nurture you over time to make sure that you know, you're in the right place to make sure that all your objections are. So I can handle objections before they occur. Like I feel better now, I can leave or what did you do to me? I hurt so bad the next day. We really have to have that. That's way more important than a website. And we do that for our clients through it's called PT marketing machine, which is I took all my emails and templates and forms and we built it out into, you know, with like go high level. And we've white labeled it and we provide that to our clients and we hand them over basically the mad libs for a cash practice.

So is this someone that fills up some type of like lead magnetic. A checklist or someone like fills up one of these forms that says like I want to apply to like, you know, like, like a web form saying like I want to. Like I want to. Like, like I want to. I want to go see you.

Yes, everything. It does that. So it does the lead magnets like the free books videos. It will do. It does scheduling for patients. It can do scheduling for social media. You can do this application. You can, I can manually enter it in your name and be like, hey, Rick's a patient. And then I Can trigger follow up emails for you.

So are you saying that you're not a big fan of all these websites where it goes like you could book directly onto their Jane or prom online schedule?

I hate booking directly.

Why is that?

Because, um, I mean, why you don't.

Like online scheduling because everyone else is doing it.

Yeah. Oh, I hate online scheduling. Maybe that's the controversial thing. Online scheduling is the worst idea. It is. Do not let patients control when they come in to see you. Because we don't get to control the conversation.

Yeah. And it depends on how good your website is. Right. Because you have a shitty website, you know, like, then you don't have a chance to like deal with like the address someone schedules.

Like I don't get a chance to talk to them and start this value based conversation. They schedule themselves, they show up and I have 15, 20 minutes to talk to them and they go, oh, that's expensive. But just imagine if they request a call back. I talk to them on the phone, I get them booked in, I can send them two or three emails with testimonials and reviews and then they come in for this total body diagnostic and they've been pre framed, they've seen some videos, they've seen testimonials and now they know what they're getting. And this is their second or third exposure to me, not their first. And then I don't want people canceling because I want them to have to call me to cancel because they'll just cancel and not rebook. And I can say, okay, cool, if Thursday doesn't work, I've got a time Friday or I've got Monday. Which one works best for you? And they're more likely to stay on the schedule. Online scheduling is probably the worst, worst feature than home exercise management apps.

It's a good, it's good from a terms of like, if you want to be like a lazy owner and not like administrative, it's easy, you know, but it sucks from a conversion standpoint. From like a marketing standpoint.

Absolutely. I mean if I'm gonna do, if I. The only reason I would do online scheduling is if I'm a sole practice owner, as a cash practice owner. And, and I'm busy and I've got a wait list. Okay. And I do not want to grow. I do not want to grow. I just want a job. I kind of had this before myself when I didn't believe I could grow because everyone in our industry told me it wasn't possible. I was like, whatever. So what that did was My website would weed out people. It would, it would weed in and we don't, you know, it would. What's the word? There's a marketing term where it's like it would qualify them or disqualify them. My website, I let my website do the work. So I even have a question on the intake form that's still. There's like, have you seen our, have you looked through our website? Because usually, or it used to be 10 years ago, if they had looked through our website, I knew they knew what I did. They knew we were out of network and et cetera. Or if I was in network and I was just busy and I don't need to do the marketing and people can show up and there's no friction. They're like, yeah, we're totally in network. Like, great. Do the online scheduling.

If you're full and you have a wait list and you don't want to grow, that's when you choose the online schedule.

Yeah, basically.

Let me throw some numbers. A typical website converts at about 4%. Okay. Yeah. So for every 100 people coming in, four people will actually book. Okay. So now think about like, you know, and when I talk to Ben, like every time someone fills out like Ben's like, you know, web form of saying I want an appointment, he's converting at around 70%.

Right?

You know?

Yeah.

Or like if you're calling a clinic, you know, whether you talk to the clinician, you know, the PT or talking to front desk, at a minimum they're closing 60. So if you look at the conversion rates of the web forms and also the phones, they do way better than a website converting at like 3, 4%.

Oh, absolutely.

Mathematically, like, you know, like, it doesn't make sense to do outside of it being easy.

Yeah. What I have is on my website is like, request an appointment. You know, I have like. And it's an application. They, you know, so you have to fill out the application and then we call you to book you in. So there's talk to a pt, there's request availability and schedule Total Body Diagnostic. Then I do have one where you can go to my Google Map listing and you can book an appointment, Rick, but no one's going to see you at that 15 minute time. The only reason you can book it is because people want to book online. It sends me a notification and them a notification that their appointment needs to be confirmed ahead of time. We just had one come through last week and the guy had booked out like a week later. Chris got on a Call with him, booked him in the next day, sold him a full, you know, eight visit plan of care.

It's just more of a hook, like you're going to reschedule.

It's a hook. It's not that they're actually coming in for an eval even, but yeah, it's.

It'S like a fake appointment listing. That's what you have, you know. Right, yeah, that's it. I'm going to leave it with this. I think one thing that is also super important, you know, that is critical for the first hundred days you gotta get, you gotta like, you like if like you gotta really optimize and get your Google business profile and the reviews on there, right? Because like, you know, because people do, people do check to see what other people are saying. And so like, and you wanna like, you want to outrank everyone as well in terms of like what it shows up. Right. Would you agree with that?

I mean, I think like I agree with it. I don't know if like my goal was the first 90 days, that that's one of the first priorities. That's a priority like for you know, 365 within the first year.

Yeah, right.

Oh yeah. I mean the first thing, one of the first things you have to do is claim your Google listing because they got to send you a postcard. But that can take three to four weeks. But I got to claim it and then move on. But the funny thing is is I think last summer we finally crossed 1005 star Google reviews because for a while it wasn't the priority to ask for them. And I've got clients now who will get 100 in the first, you know, 90 to 90 days to six months. Because you know, that's what I'm teaching. And it wasn't, I didn't do it as well a long time ago. And you know, our goal has been to do video testimonials from clients for a long time. And I was like, hey, we need the a hundred. So let's switch the priority.

And it helps you with you if you do have a website, helps you with the SEO as well. And so like I just, I just. And people want to see what other people are saying, you know. And Google Reviews is kind of the one source that you do that. One last question before we, we wrap up here. What are your thoughts about, what's your thoughts about like you know, you know, like opening up a cash base, massage lmt, a massage practice, you know, alongside with your pt. I just feel like that's Such a search term, like there's so much like people looking for that you could just hire an LNT like hourly. And that's kind of the fastest way to grow a cash based pract to supplement your pt. No.

Yes, yes and no. I think it's great. So one, I'm a trained massage therapist. My ex wife was a massage therapist and together when I did PT and she did massage, it was a great combination. We had a hard time hiring other people pre and post pandemic to do massage therapy partly because what you can charge for massage and what massage therapists want to make is really close and there's not a lot of margin there. So that's a tricky thing to navigate. You know, I mean we could talk, this could be a whole episode on, on the lessons about.

But if you lived in a state where that wasn't an issue, is this the fast way to jump start like and supplement your income?

Then I think open up a cash.

Based massage practice and recruitment was in an issue.

If you're a massage therapist, that's what you do. If you're a pt. I think the question is should I add massage therapy or add a massage therapist? You know, I think there's other things most people can do for first besides adding massage that would increase the revenue more rapidly. And massage is a great way to keep people coming longer and bring people in the door who really need PT because so it's a value add service versus a profit generator. It can be a revenue generator, but it's not as big of a profit generator because what I think massage therapists want to make 55, you could charge about 95 to 120, but for pt I can charge 250 and I don't have to pay the pts much more than what massage therapists want to make.

Yeah, I just bring this up because we got a guy in our, we got a girl in our community, she's in New York and she runs a chiropractice. 50% of her business is cash based massage. And it's just like it's been so easy. She has no problem with the recruitment and yeah, like, you know, like she's making 60, 50, 60% margin. But like it's just an easy business to maintain and like it's just, it's just adding to what they're already doing. And it was like highly profitable.

You know, I think it, and I think it's interesting because with the, with the chiropractic model, I've seen that more where you come in your Expectation for the chiropractor. This may not be her model, but a lot of times is I see the chiropractor for 10, 15 minutes, but I'm doing, you know, sitting in the, in the massage chair, getting massage, doing traction, doing some other things at the same time. Whereas like, I think for us like massage has been great. I just had a hard time trying to hire someone.

Yeah.

You know, who wants to come and like put their effort into the business to do massage. But I think for me one of the big benefits is to say, hey Rick, when you buy a 10 visit plan of care, you're gonna get two bonus massage massage sessions. So now it's really, you're getting 12 for the price of 10, you know, and that's value add. And people go, ooh. And that's great. And it's a great gift certificate opportunity. It really does fit well.

I think that you're talking more about sequencing. You don't do that for 100 days. But it makes sense like, you know, like once you get that going, it makes sense probably within the first year or two to consider adding like massage as an additional service. Because it is, it is, it is, it is an easy way to launch a cash based like practice quickly.

You have to be able to fill the massage therapist schedule because if you require them to fill their schedule, they're going to go start their own business because there's more massage therapists who own their own business and work for other people and it's part of the school and the training. So you really have to provide a lot of additional opportunities and services for them than you would.

Yeah. Because this is something I've seen a lot with like maybe more like typical orthopedic practices. You know, the fastest way for them to like implement the cash based. Is way faster for them to implement cash based massage than a cash based pt, you know.

Oh, I see that. But like so the difference is, is like if I'm already cash based and it's my margin on the $250 physical therapy service is a lot higher than my margin on $125 massage.

Yes, yes, yes.

You know, so it's a bolt on.

For if your practice is, let's just say your business is already in a million bucks in insurance business.

Oh yeah, go bolt on some massage there.

I face massage. Would you agree both on a cash based massage and 300, $500,000. Right. You know, it's still better than what you're doing with insurance side and it's easier to manage you know, assuming you could deal with the recruitment piece.

Right, Rick? The first time I went to PPS was in 2006 or 2007, and I presented about that as a student. I did that with my first clinical rotation. I helped them hire a massage therapist and add, you know, chunk of cash to the practice. And Bob Duvall was like, come speak about it. I was like, sweet. And, you know, that's how I met Alan Ling, who spoke at my event this year and was my CI. My final clinical rotation was through massage therapy. Cool.

I want to ask you that because I see a lot of practices doing it. I wish I see more PT practices doing it. And I know that, you know, you start off as like a. As a massage, and now you're a pt, now you're a business coach. So I was like, ah, I gotta pick Aaron.

And I put it through. And I put it through the lens of my business and not just like the larger business and like our more recent experience in my experience from 15 years ago. But it is. It's a great model if you've got it. If you're cranking out people in pt, you need, especially if you're in network or you just got a, you know, $2 million, you got multiple therapists. We need to add multiple streams of revenue. I have a client who owns a running shoe store, right? So everyone who comes in through PT now gets a discount at the running shoe store. Everyone comes in the running shoe store gets a complimentary Total Body Diagnostic.

Ooh. That's how you do it, right? All right, Aaron, how do people find out more about what you do? And how do people find out more about what you do?

Best way to do. Best thing to do is go to Instagram and put in Aaron labauer. Aaron Labour. It's Aaron labauer. I should come up and if you message me the word book, I'll send you a free copy of my book, the Cash PT Blueprint. All you gotta do is cover shipping and we'll ship it out right away.

And will you sign it just like how you signed mine?

Aaron, if you want to sign one, you have to invite me on your podcast or be one of my coaching clients in my mastermind. Those are the ways to get signed.

Books or attend your pt bizcon.

PT bizcon. And I can sign one? Yeah, right? Or we'll do a private coaching here in person. Yeah.

Amazing.

Awesome.

Aaron, thanks for coming to the show, man.

Dude, Rick, thanks for having me on and great catching up and chatting with you today.

Yeah, amazing. If you found this helpful and want some free resources to help you be an even better clinic owner, head over to clinicbosstools.com we've got tons of free stuff on getting new patients, bone scripts, selling your clinic, managing clinical teams, and much more. Head over to clinicbosstools.com.