The Content Strategy That Makes Selling Effortless

$50,000 came in in one week. The simple metaphor: you've got two ears, one mouth. Your communication needs to be proportionate.

Jason teaches coaches, consultants, service providers how to create content that pre-sells clients so they're already sold before they hit the funnel.

This episode is about persuasion, identity, attention, and why the best marketing never feels like marketing.

If we can't spotlight the gap, we can't then sell to then fill it. And our best marketing angles come from listening to them and hearing what their specific concerns are. So how do we move someone from curious to satisfied shopper and beginning to look at it from more the angle of what are the linguistics, what are the right words in the right order at the right time?

In a world full of marketers teaching systems that they don't even use, using softwares that they don't even use themselves, Jason built his entire business on ClickFunnels.

This is Jason Linett. Hypnosis. We've never done this before on ClickFunnels Radio. This is kind of a new concept, like completely.

So, or have we already done it? And this is now— well, that's—

I'm just saying, I'm just saying, we interview marketers, we interview all this stuff, but you're using this in so many different ways. You know, we talk so much about sales persuasion. We talk all about this and you're using hypnosis. You started as a magician?

Yeah. So the background was I started doing close-up sleight of hand magic. I actually paid my way through college doing magic at a theme park. And it was actually a frustration with that industry where for magic, everything required exposition. And now I have this pack of cards and now I have this box. And then to discover here was hypnosis. I saw someone do one of those shows where they bring people up, they do funny things, and I was watching everything happen in real time. No preparation. And it was just about communication. And I went, that's the thing that I want to do now.

That was the moment of realization, like, that's it. That's crazy. Okay, so you've done like 380+ magician shows at Busch Gardens. You've had a podcast for 12 years. You started as a magician. But tell me just a little bit about how and when there's this transition of like, oh, Well, I can use this in online marketing. I can use this to help people. What happened there?

So there's moments in any business or even just the journey of our life where you kind of catch that moment and realize that, oh, I don't fit in. And sometimes that's a really good thing because I was at this convention in the hypnosis industry. This would have been about 12, 13 years ago at this point. And it was about the time that this organization that was putting the event on—

I didn't even know there was hypnosis conventions.

Oh, yeah, we gather. Okay, they're very small. Uh, I freak people out sometimes because they go, oh, someone came to my college and did a show, and I go, was it this person? They go, yeah, matter of fact, it was. There's not many of us. Okay, so someone— I was at this event and I was hearing this narrative because people were doing specialized workshops, how to work with this issue, how to work with that issue, and the attendance that year took the first downturn. And I'm hearing people go, Well, you know, you teach because you're passionate about helping others. You put together these programs because you want to grow the industry. We're not just doing this for the money. Now, meanwhile, I had run a bit of an experiment, which was here was this program of mine that I was doing online, and I had set up this online campaign to basically send the emails out on schedule while I was out of town. So I'm there attending this convention And I'm hearing this, it's going to be slow. You're not doing this for the money. And I'm watching as over the course of about 6 or 7 days, $50,000 came in.

In one week.

In one week. And the thought was, I'm hearing everyone else go, well, you do it because you're passionate, not for the money. And I'm looking at my phone and realizing you can do both at the same time. It's okay.

You can do both.

And then fast forwarding that, the timing of it, I was then at a marketing convention maybe a couple of weeks later. And I'm hearing people on stage and for the first time I'm listening for the strategy. I'm listening for what are the linguistics and realizing the same methods that we were using to guide someone from I'm stuck in the problem to now it's behind me. It's the same journey as the sales process. So how do we move someone from curious to satisfied shopper is similar to I'm afraid of this versus now I'm kind of confident about it and beginning to look at it from more the angle of what are the linguistics, what are the right words in the right order at the right time, and how do we start to look at not just— part of the unfortunate expectation of how some hypnosis was trained was memorize these words, that ought to work. And instead looking at it from, well, here's what this language pattern does, here's what that language pattern does, and how do I start to make some of these strategies more let's say, bulletproof, rather than going, that technique doesn't work. And realizing that a lot of people in my hypnosis community who are very much, I'm the therapist, I'm the counselor, I'm not a business person, I'm not a marketer. But then having that moment of having that dash of honesty to ask, well, how many people are you actually seeing as clients? What do you realize? You could be helping more people if you also brought some of that same passion in towards, you know, bringing these clients into your practice too.

And that's, that's what you're teaching then, is how to unlock that in your customers. Are you also doing this for business owners?

So a lot of my journey stayed focused on just the hypnosis community because they're my people. They're what my background was. I had a practice in Virginia when I used to live there for about 14 years working with clients why it's one-to-one. And to anyone else who's out there who's very clearly not in my industry, for what I do, for the most part, we'd have to start the process by dispelling fears or misconceptions. Not going to make you bark like a dog, not going to make you cluck like a chicken.

Yeah, people are scared or they're skeptical.

Yeah. And for most other people's businesses, they don't have those barriers. So to make what I was doing work for other people's businesses, you know, they're looking at so often the surface structure. Well, I think I need a funnel. I think I need an ebook. But instead to dive deeper in terms of what's the psychology of the journey, what's the promise we're making on the front end, what's the way that we're gonna satisfy that promise, but then leave another loop opened up that then positions us to go, and that's why here's the next step. So looking at it from that angle, about half of my time is spent with my Hypno people.

Sure.

And the other half is then talking to others that are then realizing that they know some of the right principles, but the sequencing and the deeper buyer psychology and conditioning of the journey, that's what's missing.

And that's, that's what a funnel is.

Yeah.

It is the right sequencing, saying the right things in the right time to move a customer through that journey of transformation so they can see it in their mind's eye.

Yeah, to have that mental rehearsal of it so that even before they hit the offer, before they hit the moment of sign up now, plug in your information, how do we have them already mentally rehearsing it? And I mean, a turning point in my business was that this is about the time that things were growing online. I had launched a podcast at this point. I was doing this in-person training, and there's a ton of traffic in Northern Virginia where I used to live, and someone shows up early, and we're talking for like 20 minutes before the class begins, and he suddenly has this moment of going, oh wait, this is the first time we've actually talked one-to-one. And like, something clicked in that moment, which was that the audience at home, they've been mentally rehearsing that interaction. Here's all the ways that they've already been engaging with our content and starting to reverse engineer it and go, how do we make this happen on purpose? How do we make this happen more consistently?

Wow. Does this take a long time to do? Is this something you're saying? Okay, over a number of emails. The reason I ask, is there a way that we could do it today for listeners? For Dante? I know Dante's a willing participant.

Oh, yeah.

I'm volunteering you.

You don't have to. I already talked to him. I want to get hypnotized. I've never even got to speak to a hypnotist. So it was cool talking back in the green room about your concepts on hypnotism. And how they line up so well with funnels. And, you know, what Russell's talked about for so, so many years about persuasion selling and persuasion, it just all lines up beautifully. But I've never talked to a hypnotist and I've definitely never been hypnotized. So yeah, I want to go under.

So one part of this is where part of my brain is now going, I can make up anything and say that's hypnosis. But at the same time, I mean, the context that I'll give you is that there's several things we can do that are going to be— let's say it this way. Rather hypnotic in nature, but not necessarily the eyes closed deep hypnosis. Because if we look at it from the angle of what we've already talked about, how does it work, why does it work, but then also what makes it more effective? So simple thing, and you can do this, anybody else out there can do this too. Just hold your right hand up in the air real quick and really simple, just squeeze into a fist, open it up. This is all we're doing for 45 minutes, by the way. Your hands are gonna be so strong next week. Squeeze, okay. Now take your thumb and pointer finger and make them into as perfect as a circle as you can. Yeah, everybody has to look at it to like finesse it and get that thing perfectly round and like kind of hold that posture and hold your circle up in the air. Now look over here at my face and take your circle, stick it directly on your chin. And throughout this process, it's very important to remember, yeah, your chin's down here. Uh-huh. That's your cheek.

He hasn't played much Simon Says.

Keep going. Okay. Now I don't do that to say gotcha. But gotcha. But let's talk about this real quick. You saw every action I did. Yes.

Can I take it down?

He's still holding it there.

Yeah.

This is where I'm realizing I'm not going to work hard today. No, you saw every action I did and you heard every word that I said there. And yet in some part of your mind, part of your brain made the decision of I'm going to follow the visual suggestion rather than the auditory suggestion. Yeah. So let's—

because I heard you say chin. Yeah, I did. I heard you say chin, but I watched you put it to your cheek and I was like, well, I'm not going to be the guy that doesn't know where his chin is. And I went there.

And can we get the replay where I think Chris went to his cheek, then to his chin, then went back going, which one? Which one?

Which one do you want me to do?

Which again, the reason why I show that is to think in terms of where is our audience coming into this journey. Now, let me point out a big thing that I didn't do there. I didn't say in a moment. I'm going to tell you to put your hand on your chin, but instead it's going to go to your cheek.

Of course.

Because the moment I would say that, the brain is now getting into this oppositional defiance.

Sure.

And going, oh yeah, watch this.

Yeah, you won't win.

So it's where in sales, in marketing, in the messaging, how can we bring people on a journey where these things begin to happen more organically as opposed to Okay, this would have been a great story if it worked. There's a time I saw someone speak and he goes, some of you are concerned that at the end of this presentation I'm going to try to sell you something. Don't worry, I will, and you're going to buy it. And then he did the pitch. No one went to the back of the room.

So he did everything else wrong. Good, decent price marinator or offer marinator.

It would have been amazing if it worked. Right? Yeah. Instead though, it's a really great story now. I was the spectator. But it's to look at how if we are being a abrasive about it, if we are trying to be too in their faces, if we're earning the right to do that before we even go for the result of that. You know, it's where an easy principle in terms of influence, persuasion— I'm just going to put this into the term of effective communication. If I can explain something in advance, the brain is going to hear it as education. But if I have to explain something after the fact, no matter how well you do it, it's going to come across as an excuse. So how can we start to knock down many of the objections, many of the yeah, but concerns along the way and have it be their belief system rather than because I said so?

Well, how do you know what all their concerns would be like? We do spend a lot of time in this. A perfect webinar is a great example of this, right? We try to overcome what— I mean, usually there's 4 false beliefs. There's, okay, they believe in you as the deliverable to actually give them. The vehicle that they're going to do. But then there's an internal false belief and an external false belief. So we try to crash those or crush those, but there's a lot of others. And if you're not doing a live presentation, are you still doing this on the pages, et cetera? And how do you know what false beliefs or what you have to overcome?

So, couple of answers here. One would be the simple metaphor. You've got two ears, one mouth. Your communication needs to be proportionate. So we are consistently, even when someone buys something, they typically say, once you get the sale, stop talking. It's where as soon as we have a yes, we're then often asking questions to go, hey, what was it about this that, you know, made you say yes? What was it you were also looking at? What were your concerns? Or even how we're doing a bunch of surveys at times, even in my businesses, and our best marketing angles come from listening to them. And hearing what their specific concerns are and then utilizing that to then begin to address it. The unfortunate thing is that so many people— yes to everything you said. And on top of that, they're looking for more— this is unfortunate— they're looking for more reasons to talk themselves out of something. Yeah. Rather than looking for reasons to talk themselves into something.

Absolutely.

And sometimes you have to own those objections. As soon as possible. I had a— I have a program called Attract Presold Clients, and it's where part of it was about always the three words together: ethical sales persuasion. And we had to always put those three words together. And if it was ever an ad, the first sentence always had to be, no, it's not about tricking people or manipulating people. It's helping people to amplify what they want so that they can get it.

Like, they already want it.

Yeah. If we didn't say that from the start, then the first comments on the ad would be, yeah, but this is this, this is that. Or we also help my hypnosis community to build websites and funnels. And by listening, the headline on the page has to say, just because you already have a website doesn't mean it's consistently getting you clients. So it's just by being open to that and Actually, the story that best illustrates this is a time— it was one of the Mexico events with ClickFunnels.

Sure.

And I forget the way that I used to talk about it, and I've now since replaced it, which means the previous draft sucked. So the better one, I was at a table, it was late at night, and I was talking about how most of the content that people create, and especially now with a lot of AI slop hitting the market, a lot of content is just completely useless. It doesn't create any sense of clarity or contrast. It doesn't move people. It's just kind of there. And again, I can't remember the way that I used to talk about it. And it was the moment where I just simply said at this table, well, the way that I see it is that so many people are just blasting this content confetti cannon and publishing anything and everything. And then like confetti, it hits the ground. To which then nobody picks it up, nobody looks at it, nobody reads it, no one watches it, and ultimately then nobody buys from it. But then the moment was I was at this table, it was people at the table over there that then turned around and go, wait, what was that? The Canon thing? The content Canon thing? I was like, ooh, that's the hook now.

Got something.

That's it. Well, the origin behind the sales persuasion side of things, I was speaking at an event, 3,000 people in front of me, really cool moment. I forgot my words. And what was it from Steve Carell on The Office? Sometimes I just start talking and eventually I figure out what I meant to say. I started doing that to try to get myself back on track. And what came out was, it's that moment where, you know, your business can absolutely change people's lives. But the problem is you don't yet have the right words to consistently inspire people to take action. And I felt the whole room lean in. And the immediate thought was to go, oh, that's what I'm doing now. Let's do that instead.

Yep.

You make a very interesting point here. The confetti cannon. As you're telling me this, I have this epiphany. Like, yes, a lot of people will go out and they'll just shoot this thing off and it falls to the floor. But you were doing a similar thing, maybe without knowing it. And then you realized that one of those things stuck. Like sometimes we say, oh, we're just throwing it to the wall to see if it sticks.

Yeah.

And you're like, wait a minute, that story resonates. And so you're doing the same thing. But then, oh, okay, they heard it from this other table. Well, this is happening to us all the time in life, and a lot of times we're not paying attention to see what's working or isn't. Is that something you're always looking for?

It's— we can fall into that trap of I do it this way because I like it. I do it this way because people have praised me for that. But then the question we really have to ask is, What are the analytics? Are people actually moving forward with it? Are they actually getting the desired result? And this is kind of cool. Tell you what, hold your hands up like this real quick and just everybody, come on and give them a shake. Give them a wiggle. That just makes me smile. Okay, now take your hands, clap together and then interlock the fingers down. Squeeze those hands tightly. Just watch me for right now. Don't actually do this yet. Just watch me for now, because in a moment I'm going to count 1 to 3, and at the count of 3, specifically at 3, not before, I'm gonna have you point your fingers up like this. Not yet. And then stare at the space between. Now, when you do that, imagine there's 2 extremely strong-powered magnets at the tip of your fingers. Watch what happens. Here we go. Focus on your hands. 1, 2, 3. Point those fingers straight up. Look at the space between. Already begin to feel those magnets starting to pull those fingers closer and closer together. The fun part is, is that even if you try to keep those things apart, They're going to start to creep closer and closer together and just feel them drawing in. If you see Chris's, they're kind of— they're already closed. Look over here. Just imagine I've got like a clamp or a vise and I'm just tightening.

I'm hosed.

All right, shake your hands nice and free. Let's talk about this.

That's wild.

That's wild. That— that— okay, that was wild.

I saw him moving.

I saw— I was looking at you and I was in my mind like, don't let him win. And I watched them go together.

Don't let him win.

Let him win. He's going to try to help you. Are we fighting?

No, no, no.

Let's talk about this here real quick. Quick though.

What just happened?

What did I not do there? Again, what did I not do? I didn't say, in a moment you're gonna try to resist me and your fingers are gonna touch no matter what happens. And what I'm about to do though, uh, for any people in the hypnosis industry who might be watching this, I'm sorry, uh, because this is about to get blasphemous for that community. Um, if you ask somebody to perform that series of actions, that's going to happen on its own. I was having you put tension and stress on the muscles. And then the moment you open them up, the fingers in that posture— I mean, look at that. The finger wants to go this way. Yeah. So that's something that's going to happen on its own. So if this was the environment where I'm working with clients 1 to 1 and it's towards some sort of personal change, the conversation would be in that moment you followed a few simple instructions and here's what happened naturally. So it wasn't that I hypnotized your fingers to touch together. No, sorry.

You already knew the result, the outcome.

It's instead, though, that I'm claiming the result once it's already in motion. And how do we start to reverse engineer it? It's something that I've heard Russell talk about at times. My version of something that he says, which is the power of his, you know, kind of like pattern. Yep.

Epiphany bridge.

Yeah, exactly. When you have somebody who's in an industry where, let's say, your clients don't necessarily hear the same words that you and I are used to all the time, whenever you're approaching that word. So if it's my hypnosis community, the moment they hit that H word, there's 3 options. Option 1, remove the word altogether. And actually, I tend to say, don't do that one. Option 2, literally define it. Here's what it is. Or metaphorically describe it, which is the kind of like. But the thing that we just demonstrated here was I guided you through a series of actions, and by doing so, I never put you at the place of opposition. I never said, this is what's going to happen if you try to resist it. Here's what's not going to work. Instead, though, I'm waiting for the moment that it's already in motion. The same way that this is a trap that I see people get into when they're trying to first dive into everything funnels and websites, opt-ins, all of that. Is they go, what do I have lying around? What do I have sitting around? Let me make that the opt-in offer. And then back to content confetti cannon. People are getting it, but then there's no specific reason to move from this step over to the next step.

Right.

And you have all these disconnected pieces. And it's not just that they're not taking the next step, they don't even have a reason to actually engage with it. So they're not actually downloading it, opening up, getting the result here. Also, I want to point out some of the specific linguistics in there too, which was that at one point I said, and when you do that, just think about extremely strong powered magnets.

Yes.

The power of— it's jazz linguistics. It's the suggestions that I'm not giving. So rather than saying, here's what will happen, I'll give an easy example of this, which is that if you've seen one of those comedy hypnosis shows where they get up the volunteers, and that was part of my backstory. That's what I was originally doing with all of this. If I got up there and said, in a moment, you're going to discover you're sitting on a beach, it's getting really, really hot, and you're going to want to fan yourself to keep yourself cold. The way that most hypnotists would handle that moment would be to say, that's right, take your right hand, start to fan yourself really, really fast. That's how you cool yourself off. Which the disclaimer I'll put into this is a little phrase, depending on the skills of the hypnotist. At that point, that could just be Simon Says versus if instead I said, I was working for corporate groups, I was working for public schools, and you're at this public beach, so you've got to keep those clothes on. You'll hear why I said that. To then follow it by, and you've got to find a creative way to keep yourself cool. And then I shut up. I stop talking. With that ambiguous phrase, I could have 20 people up there all doing 20 different things.

Yeah.

The same as how can I, with a one-to-one client, give them the experience where now what they're discovering along their personal change journey is what's right for them? You know, pay attention to what you notice between now and the next time we meet. Just notice what's different and we'll talk about that next time we're here. That phrasing, notice what's different. What was I not saying? Find the places where this isn't working.

Yeah.

Oh, it worked here. It worked— didn't work there versus notice what's different. Yeah, you're setting them up and it's allowing them to bring their own subjective experience into it. And back to the question you asked a little while ago, as I'm getting the feedback from people as to here's what I was noticing, Here's what the change was. We can even do this inside of the things that we sell, where at one point I had a step of a program where it was actually positioned as the bonus and people said, oh, I found this. This is what I needed. And we're like, oh wait, no, that's the first module. Let's just reorganize this thing. And it's by— all of this is just based upon effective communication and how do we start to build these feedback loops. But the key is How do we make it so that people are having their own unique experience rather than saying you're going to get this result, you're going to get that result, you're going to get this result? Anybody who works with people in a business offer, you can't say book more clients because there's people out there who the problem is they've got too many clients and they want more of the right clients. And that actually means they want less. So how do we look at the language and find the ambiguities and let people put their own story into it? And then, you know, if we're teaching in a framework style, let them find the places to then make it their own.

Well, I'm thinking right now, I'm thinking of Leonardo DiCaprio. I'm thinking Inception, right? Is this idea of, like, you know, everybody has their agency. We just have to find out first what they want and then help them overcome excuses to get it. Like, this Inception idea is like, oh, I came up with this idea. Jason didn't tell me to do it. I want to do it. Is that what we're doing here?

So the biggest part of that is embracing the fact that from a content creator standpoint, from a course creator standpoint, not everybody buys for the same reason. And one of the places where I first came to really appreciate this was working with a husband and wife, and they were both quitting smoking. And just as this experiment, almost for my own let's call it appropriate amusement, was I kind of fired away and conditioned this one suggestion that as a result of today, the cigarettes have zero appeal to you. But I left it at that ambiguous phrase. As a result of that, she couldn't care less about them. She goes, you know what, I'm noticing them, but I just now know it's something I used to do and now I don't have to. That's it. He had a full-blown aversion to it. I can't stand the smell of it. I can't be around it. Wow. How did you do that? And I'm looking at the actual session. It's like I just used the phrase, they're going to have zero appeal to you. So not everybody buys one of our offers for the same reasons. So to even say, become aware of the changes that you're now creating in your business, and we see them already, as Dante's doing, beginning to nod their head, and the power of then asking the follow-up. What does that mean to you? And it's now getting from them what that outcome is.

This is very interesting. You're suggesting to them the outcome, maybe, but then you're also giving them the freedom to choose how that is, especially in your smoking example. Like, they knew, okay, this is not going to have an appeal, but then they came up with that narrative of what that meant or how that was processed. Is that what you're saying?

It's creating the space where now the change is possible. But then inside of that, allowing them to have their own unique experience. Because, you know, with storytelling, they're going to align with our stories, they're going to have their own stories. But the key thing is that then eventually it has to become something that is meaningful to them. And it's where, you know, sometimes in the journey, if we tell somebody that something is important, it might be accepted, they might hold on to that. But if we give them the opportunity to then discover, why it's important for themselves, right? When they have that conversation and somebody shows up and they realize, I don't have to do all this heavy lifting of the sales. These people are already coming into this, and by the time they get to this step, they're ready for it. They've already made the decision, and I don't have to jump through as many hoops. Yeah. And the question then becomes, well, how do we start to do that on purpose, and how do we make that a consistent outcome?

Like in your no smoking example, you didn't give them— you didn't give them that outcome of like, you're gonna hate the smell of cigarettes, you won't be able to stand the smell of cigarettes. You just said you will have an aversion to them, and then you're saying they came to that conclusion on their own of, oh, I can't stand the smell. Is that what you're saying?

I gave one generic suggestion, they're gonna have zero appeal to you.

Yeah.

And then the interpretation of that then became their own.

And that's something that they can then own because they did it.

Then after the fact, I can go, well, maybe— and this is a maybe here— maybe for her, her intention of this was that I used to do it and now it doesn't mean anything to me. And the thing that he needed though was what he filled in the gaps of. So how do we start to leave our communication, you know, intentionally ambiguous enough so that now they put themselves into the journey? Which an easy strategy for this is start to become aware of your own sensory language. We all naturally adapt ourselves towards more, you know, visual language or auditory language. There's a time I was at a coffee shop and I'm hearing the couple having this argument. No, no, no, you don't hear me. No, look. And I'm like, there's the problem. I just heard it. And it's to start to be aware of how we in communication refer to these as representational systems. And one school of thought that, in my opinion, is a bit outdated would be that people have one dominant representational system. They're predominantly visual or auditory or kinesthetic. You're going to catch more people by aiming for the ambiguous. Notice how you're thinking about that now. See what I just did there? Yes. Yeah. So the places where— I mean, it's the beauty of the phrase, you're one funnel away. Because someone then hears that and interprets for themselves what that means to them. Right.

Something I noticed in that story, though, is she says, you're not hearing me. And then he said, look. Yeah, why is it interesting? Because she wanted him to hear her and he was like, no, look. And so there's this disconnect already. I'll give you an example. Like, sometimes Russell I know is a feeler. And so if I have something I want to run past him that I think we should do or something like this, I've learned in, like, my Voxers or whatever messages I'm giving him, I'm like, I've got a couple of things that I'm feeling might be a good idea. Tell me what you feel about those. If I start saying, I'm thinking about something, what do you think about this? That's not how Russell works as much. And so I've learned— Miles is actually really, really good at this. He's kind of taught me this. He's like, hey, Miles runs all our events. Really, really smart guy. And he's like, no, make sure you ask him how he feels about this. Russell's a feeler. So I found that interesting as you said that.

Although my answer to that you might not like or you might love it, which is that the name of my hypnosis training company is called Work Smart Hypnosis.

Okay.

And the joke now is that maybe it's because inherently lazy hypnosis was too many letters and people might not spell it right. So yes to everything you just said. And if the phrasing is more sensory ambiguous. It's where the feeler is going to interpret that the way that aligns with them.

Even if I said think.

Yeah. Or think about, imagine this is possibly one that fits more into a personal change context or just, hey, curious to hear what you notice about this. And to lean more—

They'll notice in their way.

Yeah, to notice more, notice, to bring it more into the ambiguous and especially in a 1-to-1 for people who do, you know, direct sales, do high-ticket calls. The moment of saying something, waiting for the head nod, as Dante's already doing it, and then go, what does that mean to you? And then getting the outcome from them. And it's where now we can be that chameleon, as you were describing, and start to then model their specific maps of the world and then give them what they need. But it's where if we're talking in terms of a video, if we're talking in terms of the messaging on the funnel, the website, whatever it might be, I'm going to lean more on the ambiguous on the front end so that then they are bringing their own maps of the world into the process to then make it their own along the way.

I want to dive into that even more. Yeah, because we've talked a lot psychologically how this works and in generalities. Can, can you maybe narrow this down and say, okay, here's a great example of how we've used this in a video sales letter or in a lead grab How are you getting ahead of these types of things in the funnel?

So this goes back to the whole content confetti cannon thing. We need to start with the end in mind. What is the final thing that we want to sell? What's the journey that we know we need to take them on? And chances are where they are in their journey, they haven't— they're not telling themselves the story, I need software. They're not telling themselves the story, I need a 6-week program. No one's lying in bed 2 in the morning going, you know what I need? I need a hybrid consulting program with an online course and 7 calls and these deliverables. No one's saying that. Yeah. And so let me sidestep it, then we'll come back on track here, which is that— should I talk about this? Okay, let's go there. There's a thing that I would do with my clients one-to-one for personal change, which the strategy to listen for here is I am completely replacing their internal roadmap. Because there's a principle in hypnosis that's often credited to a guy by the name of Milton Erickson, which if you've ever heard of NLP, neuro-linguistic programming, the two guys who did that, it was a human behavior modeling experiment. And in the first phase of things, they were modeling three therapists. One of them, Milton Erickson, was a hypnotist. So the metaphor is that— or the riddle is that technically all of this hypnosis stuff fits inside of NLP, but NLP was about modeling, so it goes off in other directions. I'm going to say nice things about Milton Erickson here, but I believe this is a concept that goes further back than him. Whenever somebody is doing something for the first time that they've never done before, what's the internal story? Am I doing this right? Is this the way that it should be going? Yeah. Is this going correctly? So popularized, let's say this way, popularized by Erickson was that my way that I teach it is whenever anything sensory verifiable happens, you say, that's right.

Sorry, what is— what does that mean?

So I see that you just nodded your head. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I see that you blinked.

He's confirming.

That's right.

Affirming it, right?

Yeah. And that's an ambiguous suggestion onto its own because I'm not saying Because you're nodding your head, it means this. I'm saying, that's right. And the internal story is that now I'm doing this correctly. I wanted to bypass that entire thing though, because what's the internal story of someone using a method they've never used before to then go after a change that they've struggled with? Is this working or is this not working? It's a binary. It's a yes or a no. And I wanted to completely just respectfully steamroll over it, which was, "Hey, between now and the next time that we meet for this public speaking thing, I want you to pay attention to the very weirdly specific things that you notice that are different. Like the moment where you're preparing for the presentation and now you're looking forward to it, or you're actually rehearsing this transition and you're actually kind of having fun at it, or it's this part of the presentation and you're thinking about," Sorry for this. That one jerk at the office who you know is going to be oppositional, but you're already planning, like you're now focused on not how do I cope at this and how do I make public speaking suck less? You're actually now thinking, how do I get better at this? The horrible version of this is what I used to do with the stop smoking people, which was, I want you to pay attention to the things that I might be the only person in the world you can talk to about this. And I've got a folder in my email of all the things that I've heard. The morning bowel movement is going better since I've quit smoking. I'm actually reaching for this junk food, but now I'm realizing I don't even like it. But what am I doing here? I am diving into the oddly specific experiences and forcing their awareness to find all these intricate moments and notice and celebrate those things rather than the filter of it worked, it didn't work.

Yeah, that's almost too big for them to notice.

So this is where when we start to design the journey of whatever the opt-in is, whatever the entry-level sale would be, the formula that I lean off of is to go solve the problem before the problem, but not the entire problem itself. And it's where it creates an So many people are concerned about the whole, I don't want to come across as salesy. With this is the formula, you're earning the right to then make that offer and they're ready for it and then they want it. So two quick examples of this here.

Please.

If where I was doing a paid consult for people to become my clients, this was Two Comma Club Award number one, doing a paid consult for those people to become my clients. There was a specific deliverable outcome that was promised in the call, which was by the time— so here's the formula. By the time you go through X, you will be able to Y. By the time you go through X, you will have Y. By the time we wrap up this call, you will have the exact roadmap of what needs to happen, why it needs to happen, and how to create this outcome so that issue is no longer there. That was the promised outcome, which then was this very seamless transition to go, if you rather than, you want help with that? No. Well, let me ask you this. If you had help with that, what would be different? And then getting that response that then revealed what their buying strategy was. Yep. That then revealed what was important to them. And it was then a seamless method to go, well, because you said this, That's why I do that. Because you said this, that's why we do that. So the issue was they didn't yet have the roadmap and the morning bowel movement went better. Exactly.

Yeah. You're pointing out these small things.

Is this the first ClickFunnels podcast episode where, by the way, that topic came up?

I think the morning bowel movement. I think it is.

Yeah. So you're just one bowel movement away.

Let's go.

But that's so interesting.

Yeah.

I mean, it is. It's those small little things that you notice, and then they can say, okay, this is working based on— it's a really weird example, but that's going to anchor for them.

Well, let's look at this too from something a little bit more tactical then, which is where if I was putting together something that was more self-guided, how do we— the metaphor that I use is the arcade game with the claw. Yep. And it's going to reach down, it's going to grab something very specific. So to look at it from a business standpoint here, it's what I did for Two Comma Club Award number 2, which was then teaching—

How many are there total now?

You get 3. Excellent teaching. Congrats. Excuse me, I have an itch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These chairs just— Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was that moment of being able to say to the audience, you have people who are no-showing to your client sessions, people who are booking calls and not showing up to the consult. Here's the system that I've put together where here's what I say in the video. Here's the questions that I ask. It's an application funnel. Here's the questions that I ask. Here's how there's a couple of hoops they have to jump through. And here's how you're going to see me step by step walk you through the exact journey of how to create your own. I call it Velvet Rope Strategy, how to create your own so that now you can launch it in your own business.

This is Work Smart Hypnosis.

This is part of Work Smart. Yeah. And this is where I completely could then overdeliver on that topic. I could stay within the filter of the promise that I made, but then at the end of it, and there's no buyer's remorse I found in this journey because then it's a natural pivot to say, then you now have everything you need to launch your own application funnel. But what about designing the program you're actually gonna sell these people? What about the conversation you have for them to become your client. What about having people actually discover this thing in the first place? And that's why here's our program, here's the journey we can take you on to then take what I've figured out and make it work for you. But it's where if we think about this problem before the problem, but not the entire problem itself, it really just begins to write itself. And it's also where, when it's time to go, okay, we need another entry point offer for this. We need another way for people to discover this core program. Arcade game with the claw. What's another piece I can grab ahold of and use that as the leverage point to then bring people into the next step?

The way that you're kind of like telling them what they need and then giving them what they need, like, that's what I'm pulling out of this a little bit too, is like, I hear Russell, you know, stacking clothes. Yeah, right. Where he's like, Oh, what do you need now? You're going to need traffic. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking this. And he's kind of doing some of this too. He studied it a little bit and so on. And he's very, very good at it. I think he's better than he thinks he is at it without even knowing maybe some of the things that he's doing. But do you do that too? Where, I mean, you know, you mentioned price marinade, kind of like, I am going to sell you something. Russell did that last week on the AI Secrets Challenge, but then he marinated so much higher. He said, I'm going to sell you something for $35 grand.

Now, that story is different than mine because when Russell did it, it worked, right? And this other guy, it was just— it was too arrogant. And to his credit, he didn't have the rapport in the room to pull it off.

And that takes practice. And I remember the first time he did that was too, was the Grant Cardone $3.2 million.

Yeah.

Is he was scared to do it, but he just went through with it and then he backed this whole thing up. But I think telling them, hey, this is what you're going to need, is huge. Do you think some people inherently are just better at this than others and they do a lot of this naturally, can they all kind of like meet at the same point and learn together? Or how would you handle people coming in at different levels?

Well, I'll—

I'll address the consulting.

Yeah, I'll address it from the angle of looking for the formula, because so often we get caught up in the content, we get caught up in what's being delivered, how it's being delivered, and what's going to happen. What do I get when I then pay for this? And the biggest thing you should do, though, is look at the context. What are the pieces that I'm seeing in advance? What are the elements that I'm then discovering? For someone to pop up, puff up the chest and go, I'm an expert at this, you can trust me at this, you immediately go, uh-uh. Versus what are the ways that we can then begin to seed that story? And I mean, this is my— let's go deep emotional coaching here. The antidote, in my opinion, to all things imposter syndrome. Is a simple formula. When you're the person who does the thing, you're the person who does the thing. And how do I then tell the story along the way that, "Here's what I've done. Here's what the stories have been. Here's what I've actually created," which this is, by the way, always gonna be the better route because every industry is gonna have the wannabe expert swooping in, zero background, trying to claim some sort of authority that they don't yet have. When instead, though, how is it that I can telegraph the story and give people the experience so that they tell themselves the story, this person's the expert instead? I recently did a training for hypnotists who wanted to create training programs, and I go, I hate the thing I'm about to tell you, which was that the moment I started selling out events, was when I had the photo of 36 people all smiling, holding the certificate. And that told the story better.

Two Comic Club Awards.

Yeah, that's then telling the story as to this is— or a little bit of self-deprecating humor here, which is the number of places where I can go, you know, go find this video where I was thicker, used to weigh a lot more. I used to be able to say the hair was thicker. Then I just gave up on that. You know, when you see a photo of yourself from behind and you go, nope, that's done.

That was the end.

That was the done. Yeah. But it's where the longevity of it, but also to then plant the seeds. And also, you know, we can do a video just simply in our own home and our own environment. But to go, you know what, let me go book a talk somewhere and then give that presentation and show this video clip of me saying this one thing. In a different location, what does that do? And so my biggest thing, and this is really the answer to the question about where are they, it's to ask, what is the journey? What's the belief system that I want them to have? And how do I let them have that belief system rather than me try to force that upon them? And from a coaching and even from a self-change perspective of it, there are many people, myself included sometimes, where we're convinced, here's why this works. But then someone from the outside goes, no, no, no, here's why it works. And we both might be correct.

But you may not have considered it, right?

Exactly. But to go, how do we make that? Okay, so back to stage hypnosis. There was a moment that I would do in a program, and this is something I retired myself from doing that in, like, 2016, 2017. And there's a moment that happened in my program where you're on a beach, it's getting really hot. Find a way to cool yourself off. Hey, now the clouds are gathering. It's getting cooler out here. The wind is picking up. Oh, you need to find a way to keep yourself warm. And all I would say is, the person next to you is really warm. Grab ahold of them. That's the way. And they're all hugging onto each other. And then I would say, and here's the other thing, the person next to you is even warmer. Now, get this. Somehow the biggest guy— I'm only 5'4" and I'm about 125 pounds. I'm small. So the biggest guy, somehow, as luck would have it, he would always be all the way on the far right seat. My row of volunteers, he'd always be on the right side. And wouldn't you believe the luck? Every single time he would grab me and every time I would just be so shocked I'd have to drop the microphone. And like, I started laughing, losing composure. This has never happened before. When that happened every program.

Really?

But it was a moment that happened by accident one time. And it's that to reverse engineer it, their eyes were closed. I'm walking behind the volunteers and here's the moment where there wasn't enough room. I accidentally bumped the guy as I walked by. And at that timing is when I would normally say the person on the other side is twice as warm. And he just felt a body on the other side and he grabbed me. So it was like that time, that night at a hotel, I was on travel doing programs. The thought was, "How do I make this happen on purpose every single time?" And even for the reverse engineering of it wasn't funny if it was the attractive woman in that spot. No, I had to organize people and basically cast the role to find a reason to then move people around so the big— 6'4 linebacker kind of guy, you know, Bubba is at the end and he's grabbing little hypno dude in purple.

Yeah.

And it's going, how do we create this on purpose? So the story from earlier, the student going, I feel like I already know you, and going, how do we make this happen? How do we orchestrate this intentionally?

Super smart.

Tell you what, we've been talking about marketing, we've been talking about content creation. Show is better than tell. Dante, can I give you an experience that I know you're going to be talking about later this week? Yes. Are you left-handed or right-handed?

I'm pretty ambidextrous, actually.

It doesn't matter that you can breathe underwater, but that's perfectly okay. Take— that's funny every time. Take your left hand, hold it straight out in front of you. And for right now, just in a moment, I'm going to count from 3 to 1. Right at the count of 1, you're going to close your hand into a fist. Okay? Okay. So here we go. 3, 2, 1. Close the hand down. Let your eyes close. Because all I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna count forward beginning with the number 1. And with every number that I say, begin to notice, begin to imagine, begin to allow that arm just to grow stronger and stronger as if that thing is becoming stiff and rigid like a steel bar. So that 1, that shoulder kind of locking in place, the arm getting stronger, stiff and rigid like a steel bar. So that 2, Chris, you can see that the elbow's already straightening out as if it's being stretched comfortably across this room. 3, the wrist as well, locking into position, and 4, you can see this too, that hand is already squeezing tighter down so that notice now that even if you now try to bend that thing, it gets even stronger. This is kind of a cool sensation, Dante. The more you try to bend that thing, it gets even stronger. Feel that tension, feel that stress because the rest of this process is about your mind, not necessarily your eyelids, because check this out, let your eyes open. As you look at that arm, it gets even stronger. Try now, gets even more solid. Stiff and rigid like a steel. But now what does that feel like? Describe that.

Locked.

Yeah. Try now. Gets even stronger. Now the other arm, you can move that around, no problem, right? That just makes this one even stronger, though. Try now. Gets even stronger.

It's locked.

Now close your eyes down. And just for this moment, decide for yourself what this moment means to you in terms of some other part of life you can keep to yourself. Absolutely private. Something that you're ready to let go of. Something that you're ready to break free of. And only as quickly as you're ready to let that issue go and basically stop hypnotizing yourself to believe that issue is too big to be overcome, notice how easily now that arm can begin to lower down slowly, relaxing, easing. That's right. Whether it happens quickly, whether it happens slowly, letting that thing just begin to lower on down, inch by inch, bit by bit. And the cool thing is, I mentioned specifics earlier. Do you kind of feel how that little rapid eye movement is occurring beneath those eyelids? Because now just let that arm just drop on down, let it just flop and just find a comfortable resting spot. Just let the eyes close for a moment because I could tell you to go ahead and relax your entire body, but that's not necessary for right now. Just relax your eyelids. They're some of the smallest muscles in your face. They're definitely some of the smallest muscles in your entire body. And notice this, that even if you try to open those things, they just relax even further. Give them a try. They just relax even further down. The more you try to open those things, they just kind of relax down. Some people smile. That's kind of an odd sensation. That's odd. And you can just quit testing. Let that feeling of comfort just kind of drop down through your system, just letting every breath help to guide you to a deeper place of focus, comfort, and relaxation. Is it okay if I kind of get up and move here for a moment? We'll still be able to pick up the sound as you hear me speak to everybody else. And even Dante, as you hear us kind of moving around, it just helps you to kind of focus on your own internal experience here a bit better. Hang on, there we go. Good for this? All right, good. Because in a moment, I'm just gonna come over here and you just let those eyes open up for a quick second here. And I tell you what, take that left hand, just kind of press down on mine. Just let the eyes close down because in a moment, I'm just gonna count from 5 down to 1. And you can kind of see that already, the eyelids kind of fluttering around. You can feel what that's like. Sensations like as begin to press down on my hand. It's 5, counting down, 4, pressing harder, 3, sleep, just relaxing all the way down, just letting every breath you exhale, that's right, just help to guide you deeper and deeper down. Feel your entire body releasing, relaxing, just letting go, just let that arm become completely loose, slip and lazy like a rag doll, just let it plop on down, that's right, good. Because we'll do this again, and this time notice what's different. Go ahead and take up that hand, stretch it straight out in front of you, Let that hand squeeze down, feel that tension moving all the way up and down that arm so that notice now without even having to suggest it, that arm becomes even stronger, stiff and rigid like a steel bar to the moment that in a moment when you open your eyes and look at that thing, it's going to get even more solid than ever before. 1, 2, 3. Let your eyes open. Look at that thing. Gets even stronger. Try now. Gets even stronger. What does that feel like?

I don't even know how to describe it.

And you can see everything that's going on around us, right? Yes. You can hear what I'm saying. Yes. Look at it now. Gets even stronger. Try now. Gets even stronger. And again, you're not just playing along here because we're recording and I'm here from out of town. Try now. Gets you—

heard me say early on, you're not going to win. I'm not playing.

Now here's the fun part too. Take your right foot. Just move your right foot kind of right there and just press it down on the floor. Cool. And as you do that, this arm can just relax.

It literally did.

Yeah, the arm can just relax. But now notice that right foot is stuck to the floor. The more you try to lift up that right foot, it sticks even tighter. Kind of weird, right? Does this happen to you often? No. Yeah. And we're just talking right now.

Yes.

You're aware of that, right? It's the same right foot you've had your whole life.

It is.

Try to lift it now. It gets even stuck. Yeah.

Cool. I can get it up a little, but it wants to go down.

Yeah. Well, here's the fun part too. Take your hands and just squeeze them together. You can lift up your right foot, no problem. Yeah. Except now your hands are stuck. Try to separate them. They squeeze even tighter.

Oh.

Yeah. Which also proves— now this is the moment where I could go, whoops. But instead, It's where it only has the outcome if we're now claiming it in response. So let's go back to the moment at the beginning of this, which was that I asked you a very simple thing at the beginning. Yes. If you'd like to experience something that I know you're going to be talking about later, let's begin. And it's where I set that opening stage. I set that opening moment. And then from there, creating the opportunities inside of that here. So to start to look at, again, problem before the problem rather than the entire problem itself. I'll move back over here. It's where we can start to— there we go— look at it from the angle of, again, how do we start to create the opportunity? How do we begin in ambiguous way? And also this is where we can get too heavily tied to our story, what we believe is important about it, and instead start to look at it from the angle as to how do I give them the opportunity where they find the meaning for themselves.

Yeah.

Wow.

Fascinating.

And also, in the words of a friend of mine, once you stick somebody to one thing, you could stick them to somebody else. There you go. Wow.

I want to dive into your funnel.

Yes.

For a second, because a lot of people watch Beat Bobby Flay, right? And what happens is you got all these chefs from everywhere and they come with their best thing. You know how you're doing all this stuff? And it was their signature dish, right? You have your signature funnel, right? And I would just love for you to unpack that a little bit more. So this is the Work Smart Hypnosis. You mentioned that it's an application funnel, this one, or was that the other funnel?

That's for when I was primarily working with clients one-to-one.

Got it.

Okay.

So Work Smart Hypnosis. Can you kind of just give us what that funnel looks like, how they jump in the front end? Is it a call? Is it a VSL? Walk us through that entire funnel because this is like a micro niche, by the way. This is like, yeah, so finding something very specific.

Hypnosis is already a small community, but then my specific audience for the most part are for that community, people who already do the work and are realizing that business could be better. That's the audience that I'm speaking to.

Okay.

And again, this goes back to the topic from before, which is they're not lying in bed 2 in the morning going, I need a consulting program. I need a website service. I need to learn how to build my own funnels. It's instead same formula from before, arcade game with the claw. I'm gonna reach down and grab ahold of something very specific. Mm-hmm. And to branch off of some of the demos we've done and some of the linguistics here, it's that there's two things that in my opinion need to happen for the front end to work. We need to represent two concepts, clarity in contrast. So the moment we can land a belief shift and they can start to think about things from a different angle, that's where we're already starting to— let's use the careful word here— indoctrinate. We're beginning to shift their belief systems. So admittedly, for the various programs in that world, they most often come in by way of content, thanks to a podcast I've done for about, at this point, 12 years.

Yeah.

But then everything is on the front end leading into these micro offers. That are, again, designed to solve one specific problem. And I have to smirk at this because I saw someone the other day talking about how, "Oh, if you see somebody using the linguistics of, 'It's not about this, it's actually about that,' that's a telltale sign they're using AI." Like, no, that's actually effective writing.

Yeah.

And the difference is now their writing sucks less because something is helping them to do it better. Better. So how do we change the roadmap? It's not that, oh, you just need to charge for your consults. It's not just that you need to, um, you know, make people pay in advance. No, you need to have the whole system so that now people answer the right questions and they only move forward when it's right for them. That's what became what I now call Velvet Rope Strategy, which was one of the entry points into the program. The side note to all this is I learned years ago, let me create my program, let me create my core offer, but let me make sure every individual module stands on its own so I can lift up that one part and go, here's the solution for this. Similar to this, there's another entry point, which is a thing that I call a group session machine, which is that a lot of people in my industry are going, I don't want to do the one-to-ones anymore. I want to do groups instead. And it's not just for the sake of not this, that. It's to go, well, let's look at the strategy here. It's not a this or that. What's the way that you can do the group session and be profitable on the front end so that now the people who are looking for more premium services then upsell themselves into your core offers?

Right.

So I'm really admittedly running the same strategy over and over here. To go arcade game with the claw. What's the problem I can solve for them in advance? And just splintering off these tripwire offers to then sell something on the front end for, you know, $27, $47, $61, whatever the low-cost entry point is, to then be able to hit that language of you have everything you need for this, this, and this. But what about that?

Right.

And just for the sake of systematizing it and keeping it simple. We've done this now for the programs over on that side of my world. You know, we've done that at least 12 to 15 times, and I'm counting in my head right now of just going, okay, that's a system that's now running. And now that we have that one, what's the angle of this specific even hypnosis technique strategy to go Hey, one of the issues we run into with people for like peak performance is this, though what if we approach it from this angle? Well, here's the training for that. And now same formula, you have what you need for this, but what about this other part, this other part, and this other part? And so it's starting to think of it as, I was corrected on this recently, the plural is not Legos, it's Lego bricks.

Lego bricks. Oh, Lego bricks.

No, yeah.

It's just Lego, and if you want plurals, Lego bricks.

Lego bricks, they corrected us on this one here. But it's by looking at everything in this Lego brick kind of formula and being okay with the fact that there might be the person who the only problem they had was this entry-level offer and to be just as happy with them at that point versus the ones who then need a full system. And it's creating this organic sense where the people then upsell themselves into the journey rather than having to then force it and be aggressive about it and just make the whole thing a whole lot more Organic.

Gotcha.

Right. So what, what are your headlines like on these, on these front-end funnels or tripwire funnels?

What's—

because I think, did you early on say you want ambiguous headlines? Is that the word you used?

Well, the, the headlines on these in most cases are gonna hit emotion. They're gonna hit what are their desires. And also by interacting with these communities and even for other businesses that I work with on the Attract pre-sold client side of my world. It's where, what are the things that I hear them say?

And you just mirror those in your headlines.

Stop being the best kept secret to the people you know you can help.

Yeah.

And just that right there. And a cheat code would be that if we can call out confusion, frustration, and overwhelm, and then position what we do as the solution to then resolve those, those three emotions, then we're on board. But it's that if I popped up and just simply said, get my Velvet Rope strategy, people go, Cool.

What's that?

Yeah. Versus giving them that experience and talking to them in that moment where, you know, what do I hear them talk about? Here's the person you're noticing in your local community who is not as passionate about as you are about helping people, and yet their business is thriving. Here's what's missing. Here's what you need to do. What happened? And sometimes, you know, as the entrepreneur, we're that person who is helping somebody who's in the position that we were many years ago. And so this can be extremely intrusive when you do it right though, which is it's that moment where you're looking at your calendar and you're realizing that you don't have any clients booked next week and something has to happen. And it's where now you're realizing, okay, I should maybe create some content online. All right, let me set up the camera. Let me get everything ready. Now what am I going to say? Yeah. And then you turn the camera on, you start to film something, you don't know that. No, that's not it. That's not it. And then you do a couple of false takes. It's the blank screen of death. It's the blinking cursor, deer in the headlights. And it's now 5:15. And hey, the kids are home. We should go make dinner. I'll do this tomorrow. And you've done that over and over for years. Yeah. What if I can give you a simple 4-step formula so that now whenever there's time to create content, You know what to say, how to say it, and why to say it. And even better, you can do this over and over and your audience doesn't hear the formula. Here's how. And then here comes the offer. Here comes the training. Now it's motivated. So it's to ask yourself what, again, what discoveries do they need to make? And this kind of goes against what some people teach as to where they'd say, just share the how and the why. Not just share the what and the why. Yeah, but hold back the how.

The how.

Yep. If we're solving the problem before the problem, if I'm teaching a content framework, you now have everything you need to craft your message. But what about— yeah, yeah. Uh, where do you put it? What about how to adapt it for your website? What about using this to bring people into your programs? What about having people show up to the calls ready to buy? That's why Here's the next step.

Yep.

And it's what allows them to then craft it. So my answer is a little ambiguous on purpose because admittedly they're all the same formula.

Mm-hmm.

Let me find one specific element and how do I now put this in front of you to then go, you know, here's the problem you're running into, here's why it's a problem, here's what needs to happen, here's why it needs to happen, and then here's the solution to it.

Well, and it has to be a formula because, as you stated before too, everybody goes, Oh, but I'm different. Or wait, how does this work for me? And that's why you have to keep it ambiguous too. Like, no, this works for everything across. Amazing.

So I got your headline. Are you a subheadline guy?

Always. Yeah.

Yeah. So headline is the curiosity and then subheadline will be without or just like. Yeah, perfect. Then so below that, are you— do you use video? Are these like VSLs?

Using quite a bit of video. My finding that my strategy tends to be I want to land one main video on the page.

Yeah.

To then knock down the main objections, sell more of the emotional story.

Yeah.

But then I'll scroll through a full offer page by the time it's almost done and then go, what are the points that need elaboration?

Sure.

Or what are the places that I've got a story for this, I've got a story for that. And to make the video with the meme style image where the words are on the screen, But I'm not a computer person. So they see that and go, oh, that's me. Click. Now they watch it. So how do we just simply, along the journey, what are we doing? We're just simply selling the next step.

Yeah.

Jason, this is all so fascinating to me and like my head is spinning with all the different ways that we can use this, but it's all persuasion and it's all just people.

And I'll share the quick filter that I'd often give people is to go, this is not to say here's how you were doing it wrong, but it's to go look at it from the angle of think back to something you did earlier in your business that you thought should have worked, but then it didn't. But now look at it through this filter of, again, what needs to happen, why it needs to happen, and how we need to make the journey specific to them. And it's where we're always gonna be distracted by the new shiny object. We're always gonna be distracted by, oh, everyone's excited about this tool or that platform. And to look at it from the angle of the fact that the buyer psychology doesn't change. We need to grab attention, we need to provide value, and then we need to be the person to then point out what's missing. If we can't spotlight the gap, we can't then sell to then fill it.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Well, you're amazing. We always do, we always do one more segment before we close. This is really fun. And this segment is brought to you by Funnel Hacking Live coming up in September in Las Vegas at the Fontainebleau. Go to funnelhackinglive.com. /cfr to get your ticket. We're gonna dive into everything AI, everything that's critically important right now in the world and in business. So you do not wanna miss this. Once again, that is funnelhackinglive.com/cfr. With that, this segment is rapid fire questions. Are you ready? These are quick.

All right, here we go.

Are you ready, Dante?

I'm ready.

Let's hit it.

Rapid fire.

Favorite funnel, your go-to funnel.

Low ticket entry. Is to bring people into a micro-promise, overdeliver on that micro-promise, and then bring them into the core offer. Hmm.

Okay. What's the fastest way to tell if somebody is lying to you?

When they tell you, you can trust me. Mm.

You're serious about that? Across the board, somebody says, trust me, Jason, you're immediately like, mm, I'm not trusting.

It's when the magician says to you, I have here an ordinary pack of cards. And immediately go, oh, they're not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't run. Don't run when you're not being chased. Oh, that's good.

That is so good.

Is there—

is there a hypnosis word in marketing that we use every day that we didn't know is actually a hypnosis word?

Or imagine— imagine there's people who argued for years about the speed of a hypnotic induction. And this one is 7 minutes long. This one's 4 minutes long. But if you do it right, It's only 2 minutes. You have a shorter version. Once upon a time. 4 words. But you can nail it in one word. Imagine.

Imagine.

Why is that word so powerful?

Because we can define hypnosis. Here's the conversation we should have had 20 minutes ago. The moment you have someone breaking away from their external reality and then bringing the story inside, that's hypnotic. The moment they bring that focus inside. So the moment you say imagine, you're driving them to go into their internal representations. Tchew!

What's the most hypnotic brand in the world right now?

Ooh.

Besides yours.

Thank you. The brands— I'm going to go a little bit vague here, but the ones who their terminology become our common language, which this is not new. Kleenex. The moment that we start to refer to a product by the brand name, They've already changed the roadmap. They've already won the narrative.

Q-tip.

Exactly.

Same thing.

Post-it.

Yeah.

Doritos.

ClickFunnels.

Well, speaking of ClickFunnels, as somebody who implements hypnotic sales techniques, why did you choose funnels?

Because they work. And also it's that everything is a funnel from this conversation. There's people who will come to Funnel Hacking Live. There's people who will sign up for ClickFunnels. And, um, there was a moment earlier in one of the demos where I used the phrase without even having to suggest it, which was actually then directly suggesting it. And it's where without even having to suggest it, people will look me up and find the things that I do.

Uh, that's great, but why ClickFunnels for funnels?

Because it's the one community and one software that, from my experience and having spent a lot of money playing with everything else that's out out there. This is the one that's about the end user. This is the one about people truly implementing it. It's not the one that's only celebrating, hey, this person signed up this many affiliates for a thing they're not even using themselves. It's about the users and it's about the stories. And it's where those of us who have been in this for quite some time and involved to go, hey, we need a feature that does this. And then in a short while, there it is.

It's incredible. Jason, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thanks for the conversation and your honesty. That was eye-opening for me.

You mentioned without having to suggest, but I'm going to allow you to suggest right now. If somebody wants to learn more about you or find you or get involved, how do they reach you?

Okay, now let me teach a thing while I give the plug.

Let's do it.

Which is that you need to make sure people can remember the thing you're about to say. So yes, my name is Jason Lynette, and if you go to the website, and just try to spell my name. I own every misspelling, just in case they go to the right place. But I'm Jason, and I teach people how to ethically influence their audience. So if you go to jasoninfluence.com, you can see a training that I've put together that then walks through some very simple formulas. And as much as this seems to be something that is intricate and takes a lot of care, it kicks off with these what I call instant persuasion wins. Things you can implement as early as today to start to get a different response from your audience. That's at jasoninfluence.com.

Fantastic. Jason, thanks for joining us on ClickFunnels Radio.

Great to be here.