54. Bob Burg — The Go-Giver Mindset: Why Giving Is the Ultimate Power Move

If you want to influence others, we've got to be able to tap into what they need, what they want.

The question is, how do we snap ourselves out of the me and then go give?

You want a quick how-to on that?

Welcome to the Direct Your Life Podcast. I'm Tony Suriano, your host. I'm a film director and author of Direct Your Life or Someone Else Will. Today's episode is very special. I'm having my first ever guest on. I'm also giving away something at the end, something that changed my life. So stick around and let's get into this episode. My wife says this intro sounds like a conspiracy mystery.

So I'll stop that voice and I'll just tell you, this show is here to give you some cinematic fuel. Tools and excitement so you can stop drifting and start directing your life better than any movie.

Today's guest is someone whose work and heart has influenced millions of people in business and genuine relationship building. Bob Burg is my guest today. He's the co-author of the international best-selling book, The Go-Giver. And it has sold over 1 million copies and has been translated in over 30 languages. He's authored multiple books on influence, persuasion, people skills. He's helped companies, leaders, entrepreneurs enhance their communication in their business and grow their business based off of one simple principle: success comes from offering more value than you can receive. Bob has spoken and impacted audiences ranging from 50 to 16,000 with top leaders, Olympic athletes, and even a former U.S. president. Bob has impacted countless people, including myself, through his work, and today I'm excited to talk with him one-on-one. Bob, welcome to the show.

My pleasure. What a nice introduction. Thank you, Tony.

Thank you again for being here. I have my first question is something I dug up that you teach, and it's a feel-good question. I have it right here. Right now in your life, what do you enjoy most about what you get to do every day?

I think a lot of it's the same that I've been, you know, privileged and honored to get to do for the last 35 years or so. Only instead of being on the road speaking, I get to, to be here at home because of technology. I get to speak to great people such as yourself. And the people who are watching and listening, just speaking about a topic I really enjoy. So, I feel very blessed to be able to do that.

Excellent. For someone listening right now that wants to grow in business but also life and relationships, do you have one shift in thinking that maybe in the past that changed everything for you?

I mean, I think in a sense, it's really understanding human nature and continuing to read and learn and observe and understand what makes other people tick in a sense, because we're always dealing with people, right? And Dale Carnegie's book, you know, written back in 1936, so we're basically 90 years old. The principles he talked about are just as relevant today, perhaps even more so with social media, technology, AI, and everything taking over where people are kind of thinking, well, it's the machines that are going to run everything. No, the machines are going to help. But it's people who can relate to other people who are going to be the ones who really thrive. And so, you know, Dale Carnegie, what I believe his underlying premise in his book was, and I've spoken to a number of Carnegie teachers and trainers, and they tend to agree with this. And that is one sentence in his magnificent book where he wrote, ultimately, people do things for their reasons, not our reasons. And I think that's one of the most powerful elements of human nature to embrace. And what that says to me is, if you want to influence others, and by influence, we can say it's moving people to a desired and appropriate Action. Okay, we've got to be able to tap into what they need, what they want, what they desire. We need to ask ourselves, you know, what problems or challenges of theirs can we help them solve, right? How do we move them closer to happiness? And what that does is it causes us to shift our focus off of ourselves. And onto others, and you know I think when we make that shift now, we're really kind of creating that benevolent context for success.

Yes, I agree. Now the question is, how do we snap ourselves out of it? Because if if it's true that people do things for their reasons and not others, how do we snap ourselves out of the me and then? Go give?

Yeah, no, it's a great question because let's face it, human nature also says we care about ourselves more than we care about others.

It keeps us alive, I guess, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's— and so, you know, one of my great friends, Dan Rockwell, who writes the excellent Leadership Freak blog, he says, self-focus is natural. Other focus is leadership. So I think it begins with awareness. It begins with an awareness, not a denying of reality. Okay. So, oh, I don't care about it. No, it's, it's, it's understanding that, yeah, of course we care about ourselves and we should, by the way. There's no reason not to. There's nothing, there's nothing self-sacrificial about being a go-giver, if you will. Okay. It should help. It should help. It should advance everyone. But let's also face it, nobody's gonna buy from you because you have a quota to meet. Not gonna follow you because you have a certain leadership goal, right? They're gonna do what they do because they believe they're gonna be— they're gonna benefit more from doing so than from not doing so. So we have to be aware of that.

Right.

And we have to embrace that. And so that's how we do it. I mean, I, you know, I wish there was a magic button, but there isn't. It comes through conscious awareness. It comes through understanding why it's actually in our— to our benefit, okay, to place our self-interest to the side.

Hmm.

Focus on them. And again, not— there's nothing self-sacrificial about this. There's nothing doormatty about this. But there's also nothing manipulative about it either. We're understanding that we're dealing with people who it's in everyone's benefit If it is in everyone's benefit to either buy the product or service or make a certain decision or whatever, then great. But if they're going to do that, it's going to be because we have been able to share with them why it is in their best interest to do so.

Yes, that's true. You know, in the world, it's so distracting right now, especially, and there's so many things pulling us every direction. So, with what you just said, anyone listening, I would say journaling and writing down these attributes you want way more often than you think. Because if it's on top of your mind, then you'll start doing the thing you want to do, especially with so much going on in the world, you know?

Yeah. And hey, you know, if you have a computer in front of you, write sticky notes and put on top the traits, characteristics that you want to have.

Yes.

And they want to display and put them right there. So, you're always going to be looking at them.

On your Daily Impact blog the other day, you wrote something that you used to have stuck to your computer on top of it.

What was that?

Yeah. So, this is something I had learned from Dan Kennedy, who was one of the, really, the pioneers when it came to direct response marketing. And he just asked a simple question, and that is, is what I am about to do right now the the highest and best use of my time? So, as someone who, you know, that one really hit me over the head because usually my answer would be no, probably not. And so, I wrote it down. I wrote that down and I put a yellow sticky note and I put it right on my computer so that I could, you know, but I, and I also put it other places around my house. I didn't, I don't even think I mentioned that in the article, but that it, because I needed to be seeing that all the time. Now, don't get me wrong. Sometimes the highest and best use of your time is to do a crossword puzzle. If you find enjoyment doing those, or to, you know, hang out with your family, or to the, you know, highest and best use of your time doesn't mean it has to be work. But if we're talking about the context of work, then yes, now you ask yourself, what is the highest, best use of my time? Is it doom scrolling on social media? Or is it doing this thing? Right?

Yes.

That's—

it's funny. I love hearing that someone like you that uses the Stick it everywhere to get yourself into the gear you want to go in. I definitely am a proponent of that. And I remember putting like my whole life ambition on a mirror for years, and then I moved places. I took that thing, put it to the next mirror, moved places, put it— I've moved like 6 times and I kept putting it, you know, so it becomes ingrained.

Yeah.

If there was one moment recent that has happened, anything that lights you up.

What is that?

I think it's when I, when I hear feedback from someone who felt positively affected by John David Mann's and my book, any of the books in the Go-Giver series or, you know, any of my other books and someone either emails or posts on LinkedIn or something and, or comments about a difference that was made. I mean, I don't think there's any greater compliment than to hear that your work had a positive effect on someone.

You know what I love about you? I've noticed that you comment and share takeaways to people that comment back. I know readers and students of yours, they appreciate that, and it makes the difference. I know I do.

Thank you.

I have a question. Do you remember the first moment in your life when giving to someone really clicked for you and you realized, wow, this feels good? And it also, it works to give.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I always, you know, I was very fortunate that my parents were like that. So I always saw them doing things that were helpful for others. And my co-author, John David Mann, says his parents were the same way. So we both were very fortunate to, you know, to be raised by people like that. And so I think it was just something. I don't think it was a Something that like all of a sudden one day happened. I think it's just something I saw and grew up with.

So, and so how would people get parents like that?

That was a tough one to enable. I must have done something better. Yeah.

Is there any one thing particular that you like, a specific lesson you took away from your mom or dad? that you can remember?

Well, you know, one of the things I noticed about my dad, and he was, to me, he was the master of people skills. Just one of these, I mean, my mom and dad were both very nice people. But Dad was sort of, you know, like me, he was the kind of the person that people saw, he had more of a public thing about him. And so, and so I always noticed that whenever he met people, he was always absolutely focused on them. asking them questions about themselves, really listening to them. And he always seemed to have a way of making people feel genuinely good about themselves.

Hmm.

And, you know, I've never seen a guy who was more loved by people. And now with him, it was, it was natural. I think he had a natural love for people. And that just, you know, came. With me, not so much. I don't— didn't have that natural love for people. So I think when I would emulate my dad doing that, it was, it was more Because I just, it was a very just effective way of being, right? It was, but it, but when you do that, okay, it is fulfilling. And you feel good about that. And you feel good about being able to help somebody, you know, be encouraged and feel good about themselves. And so that kind of grew on me and I became that person, you know, through acting as that person. And this is backed up by so much science. And certainly in it, you know, when I first read about it, it was in the I think it was published in 1959, The Magic of Thinking Big by Dr. David Schwartz. And he talked about action preceding feeling. And that, you know, people mistakenly think you've got to feel a certain way before acting that way. So you've got to feel really good about this person before you can act toward them in a nice way. No, if you wait until you feel a certain way, it's not going to happen. You act that way. And you act your way into feeling that way. You know, it's the same if you're, if you're feeling lethargic and you've got a project to complete. You don't say, well, I'll just kind of sit here and wait until I'm feeling excited and ready to go before I do. Oh, you'll be sitting there. You'll never get it done. Instead, you just act as though you are really into it. Sit up straight.

Yeah.

Get going. Feel, you know, act with energy and you'll start to feel that. The physiology will guide the feeling. Yeah, many people have talked about that since then, but I first learned about it, I think it was back in the mid-'80s when I read that Dr. Schwartz's book, which was published again, you know, back in the late '50s.

Yeah, I'm, I'm all into that. Physiology is everything. And it's like when I'm in my head, I, if I remember to get in my body and just do anything, even if you're just like shaking your hand or doing something, like it moves you. And, uh, I remember, uh, listening to Tony Robbins, one of his power walks, you know, and, and he's like, try this, you know, slump down and just talk slow and you start feeling depressed, you know, and then you sit up.

He talks about that quite a bit. And I think it's, it's great that he does because that, uh, he really brought that knowledge to a whole ton of people. And so, you had a whole, you know, a ton of people who, who Who understood, no, I do not have to wait until I feel a certain way. I can move that way. I can act that way. I can be that way. And then I will feel it.

Yeah.

Action precedes feeling.

Yeah. That's great. Now, some people that are listening, and by the way, if you guys listen to the end because I have something special coming up, so don't leave. But for people listening and they're thinking, yeah, give more. And they hear it, and they end up becoming people pleasers, right, who run themselves empty. What's the difference between that healthy giving and, you know, that self-sacrifice?

So, so you're referring to this in, again, in the book, The Go-Giver, right, where we talk about giving value and so forth. So let's— I think it's really important to really define what we mean, even by the term. So, so, so, you know, the basic premise, if you will, Tony, of the book and of the entire series is that shifting your focus, that's where it begins. Shifting your focus from getting to giving. Now, when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it's the most, it's the most financially profitable way as well. And not for any kind of way out there, magical, mystical type of reasons, right? No, it's when you think about it, when you're that person who can take your focus off yourself and again, place it on discovering their needs, their wants, their desires, you know, and so forth. People feel good about you, right? People want to be in relationship with you. They want to do business with you. They want to tell others about you. So, there's nothing about being a go-giver that is congruent with, again, being anyone's doormat, right? Being taken advantage of. And if, you know, if someone finds themselves, or being like you said, a people pleaser— I mean, now we all want to please people, of course. But what you mean by people pleaser is to a point that it hurts you.

Mm-hmm.

Right? So, so we need to be able to say no. In fact, the more that one conducts their life as a go-giver, the more successful they're going to be and the more people are going to ask them for things. And you just, you simply can't do everything for everyone every time. You wouldn't be able to do it, right? So you've got to be able to say no a lot more than you say yes. The key is to say no in a way that honors that other person, that helps that person feel genuinely good about themselves, that helps that person feel valued, which they are. While at the same time you're respecting your own boundaries.

Yes, that's a full lesson for sure. I mean, that— I wish they taught that specific subject and lesson in high schools everywhere. You know?

You want a quick how-to on that?

Oh, I would love it.

Okay. So say somebody asks you to— and we're just going to use a very generic example— to serve on a committee. That you just don't want to do for whatever reason. It's your, you know, unless it's a life and death situation, you shouldn't do it if you don't want to. Okay. So now there's people say, well, how do you say no? You know what? Well, there's a, you know, one of the, the kind of personal development politically correct things is, you know, well, no is a complete sentence. I get what they mean, that it's okay to say no, but I don't think it's an effective complete sentence because if you just say, you know, imagine someone asking you and they're doing it because they respect you because they They want to involve you and you just say no. Well, that's not very nice. And it doesn't, you know, that, and it may turn that person off from ever wanting to do something with you. And it's also incongruent with your value system of treating other people with respect. So I don't think that's a good, I don't think that's a good thing to follow. I think it sounds better in practice. It sounds more empowering than reality. Now, another thing would be to kind of fib and say, well, I would, but I don't have time. The challenge with that is, you know, it's not that you don't have time. It's that you just don't value doing the thing. And so, if that person is able to answer that objection and share persuasively that time won't be an issue, well, now you're stuck because you've either got to admit you were fibbing, right? Or you got to save face by doing the thing you don't want to do. Again, that's not something— or you say you don't have time and the person says, oh, okay, I'm going to be doing another thing in 3 months. I'll come back to you then. Now, you just kicked the can. Down the road. So here's a way to say it. Give you a couple, couple quick versions, but basically same principle. And it's simply this. They ask you to serve on the committee and you say, thank you so much for asking. But while it's not something I'd like to do, please know how grateful I am to be asked.

Okay.

Or just, oh, thank you so much. While it's not something I choose to take on, please know how honored I am that you would think to ask me.

Boom!

Now, what you've done—

Perfect.

Yes, you've thanked them. You've honored them. You've let them know how honored you are just to have been asked. But you didn't accept it. You let them know that it was a no. What you didn't do is didn't make an excuse that they could really get their hands on and answer the objection, so to speak. And that's really all you need to do. Now, depending upon the relationship with the person that you have and what they're asking you to do, you might need to say, why it is, but usually you won't. You know, please know how honored or how grateful I am to be asked. Again, depending upon your style, you do that. Okay. And I'm telling you, you're gonna free yourself. And by the way, this works in text. It works on emails, works on the telephone, works on Zoom, works in person.

Yeah, it's so succinct what you just said. And I love that. It's respectful. And then you're Setting your own boundary. Yeah. Because when you get sucked into things, you really— it's not in alignment with your goals, then you're not— then you can't serve.

You can't serve who you're supposed to be serving in the way that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah.

Yes, that's great. In closing here, I have a question for you that's relative to the podcast name. This podcast is called Direct Your Life. Your life is either a movie worth living and watching, directed by you, or it's a rerun nobody asked for. What does it mean to you to direct your life?

Oh, to me, it's all about consciousness. It's all about awareness. You know, I think the, the best personal development book I have ever read, and I've been studying this for a lot of years, is by a guy named Michael A. Singer. And he's written several wonderful books. Yeah, well, he's, you know, he wrote The Untethered Soul. He wrote The Surrender Experiment. He's got a book coming out in about a week called Wisdom Untethered. The one that I think is the game changer, okay, that, that the— again, I call it the most personal, the most important personal development book ever written, at least in my life. It was called Living Untethered. It's the 3rd one in the series, Living Untethered. And this is where he really helps us open up to consciousness and, and awareness of, of why we have been, including me, stuck on certain things, right, throughout our lives without even knowing why. And yet we're dealing with all that garbage, right? And again, you know, feeling the pain of it, right?

Yeah.

And, and how to really see that and how to work through that and work it out. And I just think he took his teaching to a whole new level in this. I can't wait for his next book just to, you know, because I just love his stuff so much. But so I, so I would say, you know, that your, your title of your podcast is perfect because this is, this is what he talks about is directing your own life.

Hmm.

Being aware of, of all the scenes and being aware of the different actors and being aware of the different situations. And you deciding to direct it, as opposed to as opposed to the world around you, and you know, and you following unconscious cues.

Yes, I'm a huge Michael Singer fan. I always call him Michael Tether, and my wife's like, "Why do you keep saying that?" But I have I've I haven't read the living untethered. I've read the first one like three times. That's wonderful. I love that. So, Bob, tell people here where they could find you and your Daily Impact, the best way they can get that newsletter.

Yeah, pretty easy. It's just burg.com and everything's there.

Okay. Okay, excellent. Everyone listening, thank you so much. But if you stuck around this long, I want to mention I'm giving away one of Bob's books.

Wow.

Okay.

I'm excited to give away one copy of The Go-Giver by Bob Burg and John David Mann. This book has changed millions of lives for a reason. I personally have been impacted by it. I love the book, and I'm excited to gift it to one person. All you need to do is share this episode on social media, tag me @TonySuriano, tag Bob @BobBurg, and let us know Your biggest takeaway from our conversation. That's it. The first person that takes action on this, I'll DM you and I will send you this book as my gift.

Well, everyone listening, get out there and go give, and also get out there and direct your life. Thank you, Bob, for being on the show.

Thank you, Tony. Thank you once again for tuning in. If you haven't yet, Followed the show or subscribed to the show, please do so you don't miss an episode and so you support this show and I can create more content for you. Look forward to more guests coming on, and get out there, be a go-giver, and direct your life.

Thank you.