Episode 07: Erin Fay - How to recycle hard to recycle recyclables

So we are trying to fill a very large gap in the market of reusing and recycling hard-to-recycle recyclables.

Okay, say that 10 times really fast. That was amazing.

Right?

Right. So hello, listeners, and welcome to the Eco-ish Podcast. I'm Tracy Lydiatt, founder of Sustainable Living, and your host today. The purpose of this podcast is to illuminate the good work towards sustainability that companies are what they're doing, honestly discuss trade-offs that they might wrestle with, and share their interesting stories to help listeners like you make informed choices. Eco-ish Podcast honors the imperfect journey towards creating an eco-friendly brand in an unsustainable society. Today's episode, we have the board president of the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub, Erin Fay. The Recycling and Reuse Hub in Cincinnati is a collection and distribution facility that aims to help people rethink how they think about waste. The hub reduces the amount of waste going to landfills through their one-stop drop-off location where they accept items and materials that are recyclable and reusable, and even some that are not permitted in traditional recycling bins. To date, they diverted over 200 tons of material from the landfill since the inception in April 2021. At the Hub, they don't sell anything, but instead offer all of their items for free to the community, including but not limited to corks, egg cartons, tiles, hangers, plant pots, and office supplies, just to name a few. Currently the hub— Hi, Erin. It's so wonderful to have you on the podcast today. I'm really excited to learn more about what you're up to. And to start off, could you please tell us where you're calling in from? Yes, for sure.

Hello, Tracy. Thanks for having me today. And I am in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Okay. So to start us off, I'm so excited to ask you this question. I've done a whole bunch of reading about the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub, but I would love to hear as the board president, what does this mean to you and how would you describe what the hub does in your own words?

Yes.

So yes, I am the board president of the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub. We are about 2 years old. Our, our birthday is in April, and our mission is to have people rethink differently about things and waste, and to fill a gap between curbside recycling and things that you are able to have a second life or able to be recycled, but it's hard to do that. So typically a lot of that just goes in the trash because people don't wanna go to 20 different places to drop things off, or to be able to recycle something is just very difficult because you have to have enough quantity, or so we are trying to fill a very large gap in the market of reusing and recycling hard-to-recycle recyclables.

Okay, say that 10 times really fast. That was amazing.

Right, right.

So many really, really amazing points. I feel like so much to expand on and touch on, and I'm excited to get into that. And before we hop into that, have you been the board president for the duration, and could you share with us a little bit about the driving factor inspiration. It's exciting to hear that you have a birthday coming up for 2 years old. Congratulations.

Yeah, it is. It's super exciting. So yes, I have been the board president. I kind of randomly heard about this, the grumblings of what this could be on Facebook, and I showed up to a meeting 2 and a half years ago or so. And I immediately in the second meeting was like, sure, I'll be the president. So that was pretty quick. But so I've been the president since before we even existed. I had been doing a TerraCycle program. We can talk a little bit about TerraCycle if you want. It is a, it's a whole nother beast of hard to recycle things. That you mail off to places, and they recycle them for you. But I had been doing that for about 6, 8 years, and so I had always kind of wanted to see that program get bigger. So I joined with a, a few other women. Colleen, who's our executive director, who's basically— this is her brainchild. She had been doing a lot of electronics collections over the years., at a college she worked at and just really wanted a place where you could always recycle electronics. And then Carrie Harms, who was our warehouse director, she had been doing a program called Zero Landfill that was for interior designers and architecture firms when they like purge all of their things.

Okay.

She would, she would do once or twice a year where she would be in a random warehouse. She would take all these things in, people could come and take them, and then at the end of the weekend she'd have to throw it all in the garbage. So kind of our 3 programs came together to become the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub. And then we've just expanded and grown ever since. So got a lot of growth in less than 2 years. Um, we have diverted over 200 tons of material from the landfill in that short amount of time. And, um, yeah, we've come a long way in a short amount of time.

So congrats, that's so exciting. Congratulations. And I just love it when people's passions, um, magnetize them to each other. So it sounds like all three of you just sort of magnetically came together. And I'm curious, are you funded? Uh, what's your funding model? Are you a nonprofit. Maybe that's not the right language because you're in the States.

Yes, that is. We are a nonprofit. That's exactly what we are. Our funding is basically— so we— a very small amount of our funding is fees. So we do charge for electronics, light bulbs, batteries, and a couple other miscellaneous things. We don't make a lot of money on fees. Those are basically the things, though, that we have to pay to get rid of.

Right.

So we make a very small amount of money on that. But then The majority of our funding is actually individual donations and family foundations. So we have just found that people are very passionate about this, and they're willing to give us money for it. So it really is a lot of just people putting $20 in a donation jar at the Hub, and then it's a lot of like local family foundations who are just bought into the mission who have given us decent chunks of money. And then grants is obviously a big way that we are funded. Um, our executive director does a lot of work with grants, writing grants, and, um, getting us big grants.

So yes, great. Well, thank you for sharing that. Thank you to your sponsors if any of them are listening, and the donations that are coming in from individuals. Uh, I work for a nonprofit right now. Have a very similar funding model. So I'm always just so excited to hear that there's other people in the world that see the value of the work that you're putting in. And I would imagine, and we'll probably— I'd love to talk about this a little bit when we talk about consumers thinking about the goods that they're bringing into their home. But also on the end of that is the entire waste stream that you're talking about. And I would imagine that Cincinnati as a city is probably really excited that you exist and has kept 200 tons. Like, that's a really significant amount. That's 100 tons a year for a really small organization to be diverting out of landfill.

Yes.

I'm not sure, you know, we've— I've talked about this with other guests that many of us don't think about waste. Uh, you and I were just talking offline that we love talking about waste, and so we're kind of this strange, exciting, weird breed of people.

Exactly.

Most people just are like, oh, the garbage truck arrived and, you know, picked up my stuff. Um, but there's actually a very sophisticated, very complicated system in the back end for municipalities to manage their waste. Landfill, uh, land is extremely sought after, and sometimes you can't even expand due to just geography. It's expensive to manage. It's got complex issues. It creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It just on and on and on that I feel like most folks are just visually very distant from those realities. And so that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast as well, just to sort of work our way backwards from that scenario. So one of the things I heard you say, uh, is that you're taking in products that are potentially hard to recycle as a consumer. And I feel like I've had this come up in some other conversations and we call it wish cycling, where you have maybe like, as you said, a one-off, like a plastic toothbrush or some piece of electronics. And you're just like, like a cord, like how many people have had their phone charger cords die, for example, and they just, Well, maybe I'll just chuck it in my bin and hopefully that somebody on the other end will, will be able to recycle it. Do you find that that's the case for yourselves and how are, how can you, what are some suggestions that you can help people understand this wish cycling solutions better?

Yes. So that 100%, I use the term wish cycling a lot with people that I talk to. So very familiar with that. I think one kind of neat thing about Cincinnati is we actually have a pretty good curbside system. Like Rumpke is actually a pretty— they're pretty— I'm trying to think of the best word, but like they do a very good job with recycling. So they will only take things that they have a stream for. They— we have a glass recycling plant about an hour from here. So we have always been able to recycle glass here. That it's very state of the art. Randomly, it burned down about 10 years ago and then was rebuilt to be this, like, state of the art facility. And it actually burned down because of the, because of batteries. So the recycling plant gets so many batteries and they cause fires. They cause these little fires all day, every day. I was there a couple of months ago and they had said that It was like a Wednesday, and they said that that week they had already had 9 fires on the floor. Oh my gosh. So that kind of thing where people throw in their batteries, throw in their cords, throw in their toothbrush, like, well, it's plastic. Well, it's this. Maybe on the other end they'll figure it out, and it's not being recycled. They try to do a really good job with messaging and education. But it's, it's hard to reach everybody, and not everybody understands it. So we are definitely filling that gap. So we will take batteries, toothbrushes, cords. I think it's still not always easy for everyone. Not everyone has the space at home. Not everyone just has the energy. To put those things aside and then separate them and then bring them to The Hub. But in a very short amount of time, we're seeing, we're, we're seeing tons and tons and tons of people who are, and that's growing every day. And I think we're trying to do our best to make it easy for people to bring as many things as possible to us so that again, it, it's it's stop— it's slowing down the barrier to, I don't want to have to go to Staples for my electronics and then Whole Foods to drop off this. And then, you know, then I got to run over here to drop off my light bulbs. So we are like, here, you can bring all those things to us, which hopefully makes it a little bit easier on your end. And then we really have tried extremely hard to constantly be educating the public. Both about Rumpke. So we do a lot of education on what can actually be curbside, right? Everybody who walks in our doors has questions about what they can put in their curbside bins. So we are constantly educating about that and then educating about what we can take and how it needs to come to us.

So, well, I feel like you've just touched on such an important point about education, and it's It's, um, you know, really it's such a complex system that it's no fault of one person. And you know, you also touched on another great point. I just like to, for a second, which is the wish cycling and the very fact that people are trying to do the right thing is really important. And we all get busy. You and I were laughing about, um, how busy our lives are and you know, everybody's managing these things. And so if you have, you know, Keurig cups and like a couple toothbrushes and a random cord and, you know, empty makeup containers, it's super time-consuming to do the research where you can recycle all those things. And exactly what you just said, it might entail going to 5 or 6 different locations. And A, maybe someone doesn't have the mobility, they might not have the time. And so I think wish cycling is just a, um, a tertiary solution for them in the hopes that they are doing the right thing. So just wanted to say that we're not bashing wish cycling. And the flip side of that comment is why I think education is, is so important because also if it's not in your front and center of life of priorities, uh, it's one of those things that you're like, oh, I'll, you know, maybe I'll look at that a bit later. So it's amazing that you can bring that awareness to the forefront. And I hope Rumke is a sponsor for you and is supportive of what you're up to.

They are.

That's a nice thing you're doing for them.

That is, that is. They are, um, we're working with them to increase our battery intake. So, um, they are a sponsor. We would love to see them be more of a sponsor, but, um, we do work with them quite a bit.

So that's amazing. And thanks for sharing the story about the fire. I could imagine that the management of somewhat toxic materials, like batteries have toxins in them and heavy metals. And yeah, that's a huge issue that, again, that you might not think about normally if you're chucking a battery in your recycling, it might be actually causing fires and potential health issues for employees and folks like actually running those, those facilities. So great point.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, in the other great thing that Rumpke does is they actually allow tours of their facilities. So I have toured it 3 times because I love waste, but they'll do like lunch and learns where you can go for an hour, actually eat pizza, and then have a tour of the facility, which I think is really eye-opening for people like us and other— I, I'm constantly recommending to people, if you can make time in your day, you should really take a tour because I think it really opens your eyes to what they are doing on their ends and how complicated this system really is and how when you throw in a tire just because it's plastic, it makes it so much harder for them to be able to do their job well. So I actually feel like the hub— we call the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub the hub. I feel like having people inside our facility opens their eyes to how recycling works. Yeah, because we are— we're like, Rumpke is 10,000 times bigger than we are, but it shows you coming to our facility and volunteering there really does show you like how precise recycling needs to be and how clean it needs to be in order for it all truly to be recycled. And so I think that helps people put some of the connections together.

Oh, completely. And it reminds me, in sustainability there's a term called backcasting where you, I, you envision your ideal future and then you work your way backwards from that. And it's kind of the same thing, um, also in food. I've worked in the food industry where you have to work backwards from the shelf to understand the market, your price point how consumers are going to respond to your product. And I feel like that's exactly what you're talking about, but from a consumer's perspective. So folks that might be listening to this podcast because they're trying to understand how to make better choices that are more eco-friendly, I feel like that's the same concept where if your, your invitation is taken up and they go to the facility or wherever they're listening from, they have the opportunity to go to their municipality or city's waste facilities and see how these different, uh, consumer items do need to be treated would, I think, help them on the front end understand how they're voting with their dollars and like what types of products they're choosing to bring into their homes. I was thinking about this before we started the podcast, that really a home is like a little mini system system. And there's so many things that you're buying on a constant basis that you're bringing into your home that eventually will— whether that's like you're eating it or it ends up being a waste product, um, like a couch, like you said, uh, tires. I was trying to think of like all the weird things, which is a question I have for you. What are some of the weirdest things or the hardest or most unique things that the Hub receives to be recycled?

Um, so I— we, we do a lot of plastics and Styrofoam. Styrofoam is a huge thing that we take in. Um, that is a big one. So we— weird things, like, we take, um, we take, we take all kinds of weird things.

Weird might not be the right term. I know weird's a good—

weird's a weird term. We just take a lot of things that, like, people don't even think about. So, like, we take egg cartons, we take binders, we take office supplies, both used and needing and having— could use it, have another life. We take shoes, all kinds of shoes, whether they can't be worn again or can be. Um, we take old, um, electronic media, so we take everything from like 8-tracks to cassette tapes to CDs, DVDs. Should we take tile? We take fabric, um, corks. Take a lot of— we take, um, silica packets. Um, so early on, yeah, we had a I think he's a spelunker maybe. So like somebody who like takes a backpack in kind of a watery cavey area.

Yeah.

And he said that he used those in his pack to keep things dry. So we've been taking silica packets the whole time. That is a completely random one. We take used condiment packets. Okay, of any sort. So any condiment packet, as long as it's empty, completely empty, we take those and send them off to TerraCycle.

Like mustard, relish, ketchup, mayonnaise.

Yep.

Okay.

Yep. TerraCycle also takes cigarette butts, but we do not take them. But it is one thing that I would like to take at at some point. They're just really gross. So I haven't figured out how we're going to do it yet. But TerraCycle does take cigarette butts. I just, I haven't figured out quite how to take them yet. But yeah. But yeah, I mean, the list goes on and on and on, like, for days of all the kind of random little things.

Small little— I love the silica packets because I also take a lot of supplements and there's sometimes the silica packets are in supplement um, containers and those little, um, they're like little plastic cylinders. I don't know if they're also for like absorbing extra moisture. Moisture, yeah. And I have a collection of them.

Yeah, well, we take them. We're a little far from you, but we do take them. You could always— so if there's someone in your area though who would take them for that purpose Yeah, that's so exciting.

I have, um, I live in a small town, so I think our town, including the regional district, is kind of like between 10,000 and 12,000 people. And we have a landfill and we're actually just, um, having a composting facility, um, built, which I'm super excited about.

That's a big deal.

Because for those of us, it's fairly rural, but some people just don't like to deal with composts in their yard. And so it's going going to be great. But the silica packets is something I'm going to look up. So thank you for the reminder. And one of the things that I think individuals struggle with is, well, my action, like, if I— what, what's the big deal? I'm going to recycle like one toothbrush or one silica packet, or maybe 4 or 5 in the span of a year. And I loved what you said earlier because I feel like it highlights the power of everyone's small individual actions coming together. Because if you are acting, and you are acting, as a hub for all of these items, the volume that you're able to accumulate, and then I wanted to ask you, pass on somewhere— I'm assuming that you have an outlet for all of this waste— is really, uh, I think it's so illustrative of how many small actions can accumulate into a big impact. And so I'm curious also where— I'm sure listeners are also thinking like, okay, you take those things, but then, then what happens to them?

Yeah, so I would say about 50% of what we take in, we send back out for recycling. So just standard styrofoam, plastics, electronics, light bulbs, batteries, they all go back out for recycling. So we have been able, which I will say is one of the biggest challenges, is the recycling industry is always changing, always changing. When we first opened, we had our plastics recycle— recycler was willing to take number 1 plastics, which number 1 plastics is the one you will see the most at the grocery store. It's the one your salad comes in. It's the one your strawberries comes in. It's the one that's all over the grocery store. We were sending number 1 plastics to them along with all of our other plastics, and then they realized that the quantity was too much, so they— it did not work with their process. So then we had to stop taking number 1 plastics, and we have not taken them since.

Okay.

We have finally found a recycler, but the challenge is that they are in Texas and we're in Ohio, and they want an entire semi-truck filled with, which is 52 double-stacked pallets. So, so we have to squeeze it all into a bale. Like, we have to bale— we, we have a baler on our site. Yeah, bale it all, and then we have to stack it, and then we have to hold it until we have that much, and then we can send it to them. So we have it. That's our big— we hope soon we will be able to take number 1 plastics again. But that is one of the biggest challenges, is the recycling industry is constantly changing. So 50% of what we do is send it back out for recycling. If we can find a recycler, we will take it. 50% of what we send out is for reuse. So anytime we are open, the public is free to come in, come into our space and shop for free everything that we have. So all of those other random miscellaneous things, plant pots, egg cartons, tile, fabric, office supplies, miscellaneous, like reuse craft supplies, on and on and on. Those are all— those are— we bring them in and then we sort them and then we shelve them according to what they are. So then anyone from the public, we get you know, tons of scout troops and teachers and theater groups and homeschoolers. Like, we just, we just get tons of people who are crafty who will come, and they can have whatever they want for free. So part of, part of what we're doing is just having a space for these things to live so that they can go back out. And just like you said, I mean, I may bring 4 egg cartons, which doesn't seem like a big deal, but when I get there, there's an entire row of 4,000 egg cartons. So now's a big time— spring's a big time for egg cartons because chickens start laying. So we'll have farmers come and take 300 egg cartons back out so then they don't have to buy any for their season. So It's all these little pieces that add up to really actually make an effect and help. But you know, like these small farmers, that's a huge help that they don't have to buy egg cartons, which randomly during the pandemic got very hard to buy and got very expensive. So, so yeah, so that's like a very specific example of something that most people bring 3 7. Um, but we send them out in quantities of hundreds to people.

I love, I love that. So it wasn't— so what you're saying is the, the cost of my eggs wasn't because the chickens were freaking out about the pandemic. It was partly—

it is the carton is actually got more expensive also. Yep.

I, I love chickens.

Me too.

Me too.

Um, that makes so much sense to to me, uh, about. And you know, it's all these little things that you don't think about that cost folks money, whether it's— and like, I have a special thing in my heart for farmers because they're literally at the beginning, no pun intended, of the food chain, correct, of how much money is siphoned off of their product by the time it actually gets to the shelf. Um, and they are constantly fighting for their margins and money to get in their pocket. And so just makes my heart feel really happy to hear you say that that's a resource that you can give to them back for free. And I think that's really unique. Um, we have Habitat for Humanity in Canada. I'm not sure if you have the same system. I think it's also in the States where we have, um, stores now called Restore where, you know, construction folks can come and drop off, like, started with construction, all of the leftover tiles and sinks And, or if they do like retrofits and pull stuff out, they can take it to the ReStore and donate it. And then the public can go in and purchase it and they, you know, really work to keep their costs low. Um, but they have obviously overhead to cover like facilities, but I just adore the fact that you're able to have enough support that you're able to offer all of that for free.

For free.

Actually, one of my questions of like, who, what's your demographic? Of folks that are coming in to access those services. So it sounds like all kinds of people are coming in. I love the Scout Girl Guide troops as well, and homeschoolers.

And yeah, yep, tons of people from schools, you know, theater groups, art teachers, preschool teachers, like, because we have a lot— we have a pretty heavy, like, just creative reuse section. So like just completely random things that we've shelved that, like, you know, an art teacher can figure out what to do with. Um, I cannot, but they can. But, um, but yeah, so we— the demographic coming is, it's all kinds of people from all walks of life, um, who are just interested in this.

Yeah, which I feel like probably is super aligned to your funders and donors as well, because they want accessibility and, you know, social inclusion and lowered barriers. So there's so many benefits. And I— my sister-in-law lives on a small island between the coast of, well, the mainland of British Columbia and Vancouver Island, and they have a closed recycling system, but they don't have curbside. So you actually have to pack everything in your vehicle, take it to the to the system, do all the sorting yourself. And I— they have a little store as well where people put things, um, like you have to self-select whether you think it's of value or not, or should it be recycled. And they put things in this little like kind of shed, and it's like the— it had a fun name, I can't remember, but it's a free shop. And there's just also something that's like, I don't know, it brings a lot of hope to my heart to think that like other people think like me where I don't want something to go to the trash. It's got tons of useful life and I'm going to stick it in here in this free shop for someone. And I've actually grabbed a few items out of there. Obviously you can make donations if you want to. And it's just, there's something really magical and so community-oriented, helping really rebuild that social fabric that just constantly gets ripped and pulled apart all the time with so much of the issues that we're all facing right now. So I just love that so much about what you're doing. And I also wanted to say, really wants to nerd out about this, there's something called the Waste Prevention Hierarchy. And in my role in textiles, we just looked at the greenhouse gas emissions reduction potential for textiles at the end of their life. And some of the studies that we came across found that the best way to avoid greenhouse gas emissions with end of life for textiles is reuse.

Yes.

So there's such a huge, uh, if some may be only listening to this from a climate change perspective, which is really only one part of the sustainability puzzle, uh, they'll be happy to know that if they're going in and frequenting your hub and reusing things, they're having a massive impact. Towards reducing greenhouse gas emissions. So great. I love, uh, what you brought forward earlier about the challenges of, um, recycling and how the systems are always changing. We call those trade-offs in the— and I'm curious, do you face other trade-offs within your work model and your system that you wanted to talk about?

The recycling industry is probably the biggest, um, because it is so in flux. And you can— the margin, we really make almost no money from our fees. The margins for what we can get paid for are nothing, which is a whole nother conversation. I think until big business is willing to use non-virgin things then there, there won't be any money in it, like any real money in it. That is probably our biggest challenge. Our, you know, our trade-offs have really been people. We started as a 100% volunteer organization. We were full volunteer for about a year. Now we do have 7 employees. We have 3 full-time employees and 4 part-time employees.

Amazing.

But we realized very quickly that like we are a MRF, a materials recovery facility. Like we are actually a recycling facility and we were not gonna be able to be successful with just volunteers. Like, sure, we could not just do it that way. So growing our capacity people capacity has been a struggle. Like, work, you know, you need to make enough money to be able to pay to have the people. The people that we have on staff are extremely passionate about the cause. Everybody who is on staff is like sold on the mission and, you know, sold on what we're doing and excited about growth. But that is, that has been the hardest cuz we still rely on our board a lot and just on community members for volunteer hours cuz we kind of, so we have a mini hub that's in our like receiving area where everybody comes in just like you said, like they pack their car up, they come, they have to unload everything into the categories.

Right.

So Like you're putting all your Styrofoam in one area, you're putting all your toothbrushes in another area. So we typically have to have about 5 volunteers down there who are just helping people, right? Answering 800 million questions and helping people put the things where they belong. And then we move everything upstairs to where we store it all, shelf it, sort it, shelf it, and store it. So it just takes, it takes a lot of people.

Mm-hmm.

And we are hand, you know, unlike Rumpke, we are hand sorting everything. So we don't have any machines that are separating metals from glass from this.

Right.

So that's, it's a very laborious process. Yeah. But, um, that is, we've really got a great system down where, where it comes in. People are sorting it, like doing a first sort for us, and then we typically do a second sort upstairs. But that's probably our biggest trade-off is just we see ourselves 10,000 times bigger because of the demands, and it's figuring out how to get there incrementally.

Yeah, well, that makes sense. So anyone listening in the Cincinnati area, encourage you to get your butts out and, uh, go volunteer because it'll feel good and help you out. And I noticed on your website that you were, um, alluding to the idea of potentially a social enterprise model, or shifting further into that type of model where you might look at employing folks with various barriers to employment, or that may have just access issues to jobs. Is that something that you're still looking at proceeding with?

Yes. So our executive director has a son with a developmental disability, and so she has been pretty passionate since before we opened that that becomes part of our mission at some point, which we are not, we are not by any means there yet. But we would like— so But we also, so right now we're in a space that we just rent that we all think of as temporary. It has been an amazing space. Our landlord is wonderful, has been very good to us. We have grown in our space, but we, we do have big dreams about what we could be one day. And in that big dream phase, then we have a lot more employees, and at that time then we think more about how we're hiring and who we're hiring, but always keeping in mind that we want to always be on a public transportation line, and we always want to be, you know, easy to get to no matter what. So we really, we're all kind of committed to how we can How we can continue to help all demographics.

Yeah, that's really amazing and super values aligned, of course. And I wish you the best of luck in that transition when it comes. Yeah. And, uh, should it come, uh, I'd love to do another update with you and I actually have, um, potential lead maybe that might be helpful. I connected with a local organization. Organization that's a social enterprise model that does mattress recycling. They also receive all kinds of electronics in my local area, and they've committed the resources to creating a guide to help other folks set up social enterprise models. So if that's of value to you, I'd be happy to introduce you to Stacy. The organization is called Pace, and it's in Penticton, for anyone listening that might be interested as well. And I also wanted to just go back a little bit to something that you said about until companies start incorporating more reused or recycled product instead of virgin materials in their products, we're not really going to see a big shift. And I could not agree with you more. And I just wanted to touch on that because I think that speaks to circularity, which is something that you are embedded in, and so many people are talking about this, the transition to a fair, just, and swift transition to a circular economy for all types of products, meaning that we're trying to keep reused or valuable materials in, in the use-reuse cycle for as long as possible. And so much of this, we see this in textiles as well, like it will— I don't believe that will fully happen until those companies are mandated to do that, or, um, directed through— I hate the word mandate these days, um, that are directed to do specific legislation either from like whatever local government all the way up to a state or provincial or federal. And we see, we struggle in textiles right now because we don't have that. And it's not until that happens and that constriction happens or that restraint that those organizations are working under, I don't really see it changing. Would you agree?

Yeah, unfortunately, 100%. And that's, um, I think, I think people in this realm, we have a lot of conversations with people about that. Like, again, going back to like, what am I, what's my little bit doing? When nothing is changing from up above. Yeah. And I, every time I'm at the Hub, I swear I have a conversation about how, like, why can't all yogurt containers be number 5s? Like, why can't, like, why can we not make simple, simple things, mandates, whatever, rules, laws. Yeah. That just make it easier, or, you know, put the onus on Coke or P&G or whoever it is, the Driscolls, to— if you're gonna make this product in this quantity, like, you have to figure out how, how to make it recyclable also. And then until we get there, like, I think we do an amazing thing and I would never stop what we're doing. Yeah. But until we see that, we're just this little tiny grain of sand in a very large beach.

Agreed. Yeah. And it seems sometimes unfair that the onus lands on the individuals for packing the stuff up in their car and driving it Thank you. And so thank you to anybody who's listening that does that. Thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my little sustainability heart. And, you know, the thing that gives me some hope is that also I have the chance to talk to internal sustainability champions that are working inside those large organizations, and they're trying too. And so I feel like because they're so complex. Like, let's say P&G or Driscoll's, for example, they have, you know, what, hundreds of thousands of SKUs and different products that they make. And, you know, change takes time. And I do know that some of them are working, some of them certainly are not. And, uh, yeah, it's a complex system. So until that changes, um, just, you know, thank you for what you do, and thank you to all folks that are listening that take the time to do that because just because they care and they want to see change.

Yeah.

And, um, from a legislation perspective, I think that also lots of people are working on that. And the more voice that you can put to your local representative, the better. Because I know in British Columbia, I've spoken to provincial employees and they said, well, the only reason that they are really looking at banning single-use plastics, and that's our big focus right now, is because they heard about it from the public. So they are public servants. They are dictated by what the public wants. And so if something you care about, please put your voice to it. Yes. Agreed. Yeah. I'm turning into more of an advocate these days. I'm so grateful for all of the details that you shared, and I'm so grateful for the work that you do. And one of the questions that I always love to ask is, you know, if you could paint your magical picture, pick up your paintbrush and paint the Cincinnati Recycling and Reuse Hub's ideal vision. Like, I feel like you've kind of shared some of it. Did you want to add to it or expand on it?

Yeah, so I will. I'll give you like my like elevator pitch about it. So we really, um, We did some research about a year ago. We actually, Colleen, our executive director, and I sat in on a virtual class about resource recovery parks across America, and there's only maybe 3 of them. And it got us thinking about how we could think bigger than what we had previously thought. So in a perfect dream world, we would have between 30 and 50 acres of land, and we would have an education center that we built. So offices and education center where we could, um, collaborate with other nonprofits, where we could have big businesses come to us. So Kroger is a, is born and raised right here in Cincinnati, P&G local to Cincinnati. So like really start to have other businesses come to us. And, um, and then outside of our, our like idyllic built building, we would have we would be able to grow our capacity. So we would have, you know, numerous warehouses and buildings and barns where we could take textiles and bicycles and mattresses and all these other things that we just don't have the capacity for where we are right now. And then at the same time, we could possibly have a small compost facility, community gardens, and really be able to collaborate Cincinnati really is a hub for a lot of sustainable nonprofits. We, we are for being kind of this like old school Midwestern city, like there is a lot of sustainability things in practice here, and a lot of them would love a space where they could kind of have as home base because a lot of them are nonprofits and are on shoestring budgets. So be able to really collaborate, become a sustainability hub, not just reuse and recycling. So, you know, be partners with other nonprofits and use that land to, to be able to do a lot more, grow, grow trees and have a community garden and all of those other pieces. Ideally, like smack dab in the middle of the city and really easy to get on all the highways and right on the bus line. So, um, that is— that's our big dream, and we really hope that we can do that within about 5 years. Um, we are actively behind the scenes working on that now. So, um, that will take obviously time and money, um, but that feels to me like super exciting.

So I love it. I can feel your excitement, and I can see your vision and never heard that, that, that term before. Can you say it again?

Re—

reuse parks?

It's resource recovery parks.

Resource recovery parks.

Okay.

I think there's one in Atlanta, there's one in Colorado, there might be one in Florida. Um, there's not many and they, um, they're all in like varying degrees of what they do, but it, it got us thinking outside of like, we're just in a, we're on the fourth floor of a warehouse right now and I think That's what we had thought, like we would have a warehouse with a dock and that would be that. And then we were like, man, but we could do— could do so much more.

Yeah, and it makes so much sense about, um, how creating a large building, because you would need that facility anyways for your activities. But then I love the fact that you're also open to bringing in other nonprofits, because oftentimes nonprofits have big impacts but really small teams, and that probably don't need a lot of space, and that you could resource share and also network. And, um, it just sounds like wins right across the board. And I'm not sure, have you ever looked into the— I did this a little bit with, um, I always do this, I don't finish my thought. Have you looked into Fishes and Loaves? And I think they're outside Austin, Texas. And I came across them because I was on the board of the Affordable Housing Society for my area. And they have like, I think it's 80-acre master-planned community. And it's more around affordable housing, but it's a very similar model to what you're sharing where there's like a central hub, there's a facility there for folks to come, they have commercial kitchens, they have gardens. They have temporary housing, they have transition programs that really help people that are houseless, um, get back on their feet, help them with any types of counseling. Like it's a really similar model, but more just for housing. So yeah.

Yeah.

I've, I love that. I'm going to look into the resource recovery parks. Aside from, I wanted to finish on a high aside from the 200 tons that you've diverted. What do you want to say are some of your biggest wins to date or things that you're really looking forward to this year, aside from also working on your amazing huge vision? Thank you for sharing that. I love—

that's a big one.

I feel like when you put voice to that, you start birthing it out energetically. It's going to attract the right people to you.

I agree. I agree. So I think, I mean, our biggest win is how much we've diverted. Our second biggest win is that we have 7 employees. I don't know that any of us thought that At this point, we would have 7 employees already. And then I'm super— I mean, we are, we're entrenched in what, in what this big vision will look like. So that is something I'm very excited about. And then honestly, like being able to recycle number 1 plastics again, I think is a big one. Like I still eat blueberries and blackberries and strawberries and I hoard the containers hoping that one day I can recycle them because otherwise I would only be able to eat strawberries for 2— like we have a 2-week season here in Cincinnati. So, um, so we really are hoping in the next 2 months that we are able to start taking number 1 plastics again. Um, and I think people will be very excited about that because it's— as much as my heart is passionate about reduction of waste, like buying less, consuming less, consuming better, at the end of the day our society is not fully set up for that all the time, and my life cannot be fully set up for that all the time. So, um, I'm still gonna eat strawberries and they just come in plastic. That's just what happens. So, um, so yeah, so that one I'm excited about for sure, um, because that's like a, a small win that I'm, I'm hoping comes soon.

So yeah, well, it sounds like maybe you could contribute at least a pallet or two just for yourself and how you're— how— not because of your consumption, but just because you've been so committed to hoarding your plastics. Yeah, I kind of have.

It's an advantage because I am a super minimalist. Like, the most things I have are plants. Like, I really don't like a lot of stuff, so I have plenty of space to keep my, my weird plastics.

Well, that's really exciting and such an achieve— it sounds like a really achievable goal, and I'm Um, I'll be watching your social media to see announcements for that, and yeah, of course, we'll do my best to support, um, the broadcast of all of that as well. And, um, I'm just— yeah, I just continue to be so grateful for folks like yourselves that are wanting to come on the podcast and share all of the stories that we might never have had access to here, and that are doing good work in, you know, helping our society transition to more of a sustainable state, because you really did bring forward such a great point, which is you might want to do all of these things like personal level trade-offs in your house where you're trading off potential health benefits of eating strawberries and blueberries because you maybe don't want to create waste. That's a tough trade-off for a lot of people.

Yeah.

And, um, I'm just so glad to hear that there's potential solutions coming forward for a, a simple trade-off like that, that would have a lot of impact on the back end of it.

I was gonna say our website is CincinnatiRecyclingAndReuseHub.org. And we really, again, we're all volunteers on that end. So it is a volunteer-run website, but we try really hard to keep it up and have our information be very current and easy to reach and easy to read. So, you know, we are, we are an organization that always needs support. So looking us up on our website or Facebook, we also are, you know, we keep a good Facebook page. So always answering questions there.

Can you repeat your website again just so we have it fresh in our minds?

Yes, it is CincinnatiRecyclingAndReuseHub.org.

Awesome. It's been such a pleasure, Erin. I'm so grateful for your time and thank you for being with us today.

Yes, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

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