Episode 08: Sonja Picard - Recycling Old Jewelry within an Ethical Luxury Jewelry Brand

We have become custodians of, of the gems that we've received, and they're also moments that we were loved and adored, and those people wanted to make sure that we got those pieces of jewelry. Maybe we got them unexpectedly, whatever the case may be. So there's a whole bunch of entanglement in there, from, from the family constellations to self-love to transformation to our future self. It just becomes There's lots of, lots of levels that I touch upon that—

Hello listeners and welcome to the Eco-ish Podcast. I'm Tracy Lydiatt, founder of Sustainable Living School and your host today. The purpose of Eco-ish Podcast is to illuminate the good work towards sustainability that companies are doing, honestly discuss any trade-offs that they might wrestle with, and create space for them to share their interesting stories to help listeners like you make informed choices. Ecoish Podcast honors the imperfect journey towards creating an eco-friendly brand in an unsustainable society. On today's episode of Ecoish Podcast, I'm so pleased to introduce to you Sonia Picard, artist and jeweler. And Sonia is also a personal friend of mine, so I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with her and to share it with you. Sonya is an international teacher, artist, and an award-winning Canadian jeweler. Her work can be found in some of the most exquisite spas internationally, as well as boutique stores. She has won awards for her jewelry designs and has been a professional full-time artist since 1990, and her clients are visionaries, celebrities, and those who seek a connection and expression of their heart. Her 30 years of comprehensive knowledge of mysticism and spiritual landscape has shaped her creativity by study and initiation of sacred mantras and study of shamanism. Sonia creates from the ancient Eastern tradition of transmission, where the making of the piece passes through the artist while in heart connection, while chanting sacred mantras in the creative process. Called a bling therapist by many and a modern-day alchemist, she offers a renowned bespoke bespoke jewelry design service called Recycle Your Love, where she works with her clients to transform their old heirloom jewelry pieces into new ones that are embedded with mantras that are designed specifically to promote and attract the rebalancing of what the client needs. Specifically, this could be physical or an emotional well-being, career, or relationship harmony. Hi, Sonia. I am so excited to have you here. So grateful to have you here with us today, and I'm really excited to share more about the service, Recycle Your Love, and what you've been up to. And I'd love to invite you to share where you're calling in from today.

Well, thanks for having me. I am calling in from North Vancouver, uh, in the— you're looking out into my backyard where there's lots of trails and forests, which I love. So feeling blessed.

It sounds like a good view for a podcast date.

Exactly.

I did share in the beginning of the introduction that I had started out with that you and I have known each other for a long time, but I feel like quite excited to have this conversation because, uh, I don't think we've ever really sat and talked about this in detail. I think it's fundamentally things that you and I know in our hearts and the values that we live. And I'm just super excited to have this convo. So thank you for, for being here and sharing this with, with the listeners.

Thank you.

You're welcome. So my first question always is, can you start us off telling us in your own words what your company's service Recycle Your Love does?

Well, it's a, it's a beautiful service. It's not, uh, as a jewelry designer, I, um, It's not— I'm not the first jewelry designer doing like taking old jewelry and making something new and funky. I take it to the next level because I feel that gold and gemstones have the vibration and an energy that they also have a collective energy. Like, is what I'm— they, they have like your grandmother's ring would have lived a life. Maybe she came across from you know, another country and live this journey. And, and then when you, you come to meet me, you know, you've got all these little bits and pieces. Maybe it's like your first, you know, uh, piece of jewelry you got when you were 16, and maybe it's a grad ring, and maybe it's your grandmother's ring, and maybe it's, uh, you know, an old wedding ring of a relationship that hasn't gone didn't go well or end well. And how do we come to a point of gratitude to honor those relationships? Maybe they need healing. And I deep dive, and a lot of people are very, very, uh, surprised at the questions I ask, but they see at the end the, the why, because it's about family constellations and it's about healing and it's about giving gratitude in order for us to move on, to have more enriching relationships in our life.

Yeah, that's so beautiful. And I love to double-click on the family constellation piece. And, um, it sounds a bit like— I, in your intro, we said a bling therapist. And so I feel like you just explained a little bit about what that might actually entail. And when you and I have both had close family members, pass away. And I know I've been in a space of reflecting that when you're in a family, you hold a specific, um, role a lot of times. And so I feel like— is that what you mean by family constellations? Could you share that a little bit more?

Yeah, no, let's, let's— I mean, it gets— it's a little bit more broader. I mean, in the sense of, let's say for instance, um, you know, it's your grandmother. Let's go back to your grandmother. Maybe she had, you know, she was a pioneer. Maybe she came here. What did she go through? Sometimes there's those, those residues, you know, that of impact that she had that we may feel. That's what sort of family constellation and that connection. But also we could say, you know, what I love about my grandmother was that she was fearless. And she, she no matter what, she, you know, she started over again. And so I'm always asking people to extract those elements and how can we take a little bit of that fearlessness in our own life and remember. And also, you know, as you're wearing her gold, that journey continues on. Now we've got that legacy. We have been bestowed, we are the custodians. That's what's so beautiful. We have become custodians. Of, of the gems that we've received. And they're also moments that we were loved and adored, and those people wanted to make sure that we got those pieces of jewelry. Maybe we got them unexpectedly, whatever the case may be. So there's a whole bunch of entanglement in there, from, from the family constellations to self-love to transformation to our future self. It just becomes There's lots and lots of levels that I touch upon that at the very end, when the person gets their Recycle Your Love, they really get that impact. It becomes very emotional because they remember what grandmother's ring looked like and other pieces they've thrown in there to kind of make something, and now it's really them, and it's, it's beautiful.

Yeah, thank you for sharing the depth and breadth of that concept. Um, What comes to mind too when you were talking is that we are, you know, we are the prayers and wishes of all of the past generations that came before us. And what a beautiful way of honoring that, um, by taking and transmuting their, their work. Um, there's definitely like a whole bunch of other things I want to double-click on in there, but before we dive in, I would really love to ask you what was the driving force or spark for starting this part of your business?

Uh, it's a classic, uh, story. I had a client who had a, you know, like a 2-carat diamond ring from her ex-husband, and she started talking about her ex-husband, and then she started getting really agitated and angry and was talking about the stone and how she doesn't wear it and And I was like, wow, man, that was powerful. Like, she's referring visually, not even like tangible in her hand, visually. She's still thinking about this ring and it's bringing up all this emotion. And I thought, wow, this is an opportunity. I knew her well enough to say, hey, look, it's time to get over it. Let's do it. And I said, you know, you know what you don't want. I mean, look, nobody gets off this planet unscathed by heartbreak and heartache and the loss of loved ones and things going wrong and kiss frogs and all those different things. So, um, and it's all how we are in it. How are we going to leave that space behind and find some space of gratitude? And that's where I took her. And then I asked her, what do you want? Like, what's the guy like for your future? And I'm, you know, I always give my clients a meditation on a new or a full moon so that they can start, uh, and it's usually very specific to their situation and their collection that they have that they want transformed into Recycle Your Love. And then they find some words and I inscribe them on the inside or the back of the pendant so that they can reflect. Because when you're like this and you're angry and agitated and you kind of got your hands up, how can you let love in. You're trying to get— I'm trying to let people just take a deep breath, put their hands down by their side, and open up their heart and go, okay, that was what it was, but it doesn't mean it's gonna— it can hurt me in the future. This is self-love. We sabotage ourselves so much with the old story, and those pieces of jewelry are so attached to the old story. And so How do we transform it into the new story and what we want and find gratitude? Because nobody's perfect. Even the decisions we made back then were not perfect, but we learned. So that's a long answer, but—

No, it's perfect. I think it just segues perfectly into the continuing, like, the Bling Therapist. And one of the things I appreciate about you so much, just knowing you personally and then also knowing your work, is this, the amount of intention that you live your life with. And I feel like that comes forward in what you just shared so deeply and probably, and hopefully will resonate with a lot of the listeners because anybody who's interested in sustainability or doing better for the planet, or even just investing in their own health and wellbeing, which I actually think is like the foundational piece of sustainability. Holy, holy resonate with what you just said about the intention and the ceremony behind pieces of things that we adorn ourselves with, like rings or bracelets or earrings, necklaces, especially rings, like, because you can see them all the time and your brain is constantly taking in that information, even if you've been wearing that ring for 30 years, for example, that it is so so powerful because there's so much intention behind the giving of those pieces or the receiving of them and like what they mean. So I just, I absolutely love that that's the approach that you take to this, which I think is just another beautiful rich layer on top of just purely talking about the, the science of metals and like the mining of gems and the ethics behind those things. Like, this is just like we got to the cream first, and then maybe, maybe we can dive into the science or the eco-friendliness a little bit. I mean, it's probably a simplistic question to ask you why you feel that you're making your customers— or you're helping your customers, sorry, you're helping them make eco-friendly choices. But I'd love to hear in your words what that means to you.

I don't think my customers come to me with that first thing in mind, I'll be honest. Uh, it's, it's very much like an emotional, um, an emotional start, you know, like to connect, um, you know, speaking about my industry, I mean, you know, our industry has come a long way, um, in the last, you know, I think, I think also I have to You know, I love Leonardo DiCaprio because he is an environmentalist. And, you know, doing the movie Blood Diamond was a catalyst in our industry. And I think that, you know, we just kind of go, oh yeah, I know, we'll get those diamonds and we get that gold. But, you know, unless you are on the ground going to these art— these mines and/or artisanal mines, and now there are some things that are going on in our industry like fair trade gold, which what means— what that means is there are artisanal mines that are, you know, noted that the people that are being, you know, that are mining there and getting the gold are being treated really well and being paid fairly. On our end, it is a higher price point to buy that gold. So some designers like Gold's already expensive. Why would I do that? You know, there's other things to consider. The gemstones, of course, you know, a lot of big companies that are buying these humongous diamonds that are, you know, 100 carats or whatever, and they're reaping the financial rewards, but they're not giving back to these places, you know, or building a hospital or a school and And there now, thank goodness, I guess, you know, like there are certainly people out there. I want to just reach out to him or note him as the Gem Explorer, an amazing guy, Yayani. He's really, you know, been on the ground. He shows people what's happening, what the working conditions are, because you just, you don't know. I mean, here I am, I'm sitting in North Vancouver. I'm not somewhere in, you know, Brazil or somewhere in a cave picking away with my hands blistering out. I mean, I'm getting that end product, but yeah, so we're not, we're not in it. And so that, that awareness has changed. And so fair trade, knowing where the rough is coming from. I am working with a company in India where they have the rough and the cutting. It's a vertically integrated company. You know, I feel better working with that. I see the workers being, you know, well taken care of, and, and, um, you know, everyone's kind to each other. That's a difference. And then you see other, you know, working environments, you're like, I don't know if I can support that. Yeah, you know, you have to create your framework as a jewelry designer. There is many, many, many hands that are like touching these pieces before the final thing happens. And it's getting better. Like every industry, there's tons of room for improvement, but we still have a long way to go. A long way to go. Yeah.

That's so many excellent points. And just for listeners who don't know the difference, just from something I can contribute from my mining background, Yes, is, um, there's a big difference between how we mine certain things. And so artisanal that you have mentioned is classified as small-scale mining. So that would be done, you know, really typically, let's say like you're mining rubies or sapphires in Sri Lanka.

Yeah.

And you're artisanal, you may be building ladders out of trees and ropes, you're hand bucketing out dirt from underground. You're in like a labyrinth of caves that is poorly lit, is super hot. There's no, you know, active HVAC or ventilation. Like, these are the kinds of conditions that artisanal miners would be working with. And the same with diamonds as well, which we very clearly saw on Blood Diamond, which so grateful for that movie as well.. And then the flip side of that is, you know, commercial mining. So a great example is in the Arctic in Canada, we have these giant diamond mines like Ekati and others that have recently happened in Canada that, you know, are very industrial. There are huge equipment, big moving buckets, giant trucks, high security, but also have the safety standards for the folks that are working there. So Yeah, that's probably like the biggest point to point out.

And I really appreciate that you said the Gem Hunter, Gem Explorer, the Gem Explorer on Instagram. He kind of retired from being like, he was sort of like the Raiders of the Lost Ark kind of dude, right? And he's just out there, but he really has spent a lot, a ton of time with people. But, you know, and then there's a lot of, you know, greenwashing. And when I say that, it's like, you know, there's the lab-grown diamonds. Well, they're saying that's more, you know, green. I'm not sure that's the truth. You know, there are a lot of emissions that have to happen, and, you know, I don't know what the best thing is. I mean, I like to work with natural gemstones because I feel like they have an energy. I'm, I'm personally not a big fan of lab-grown. Gemstones. But, um, and, and I, I, and again, going back to Recycle Your Love, I have a real soft heart for, you know, old mine-cut pieces. And, you know, they're, they're quirky and funky, and they've been cut by hand, not by machine, and you can see it. And, you know, we're using that gold. And, you know, even, even recycled gold— when people say, oh, I'm using recycled gold, well That has to go back into a refiner again. You know, it's not like you're using— yeah, I just wanted to make this really clear for, for people, is that like, you know, if you're getting something, it's not that that piece was recycled from the original piece. If you have— if you're going to put your stamp on it at 18-karat, it actually has to be refined to 24-karat, and then you alloy it down. In order to verify and stamp. I mean, you can test it, but, um, there's a refining, uh, uh, issue there, which means that's, you know, not easy on, on, you know, Mother Earth, right? So, you know, I, I don't know. I just, like I said, I, I try— I, I found for me the entry point for Recycle Your Love was the love of old gems. And then as, as I get— got more conscious of my own, you know, in my own journey from 23 years of being a jewelry designer, I realized, wow, I'm actually part of this matrix that isn't really good for the earth. And I never really thought of it. And so I had to start making conscious decisions. You know, it's a journey for every single maker out there and company that is behind creating a jewelry line.

So super good point. Um, I really appreciate you bringing that forward. And it's kind of the whole point why I started this podcast is that I just find that people get trapped in mindsets that like, if they can't do sustainability perfectly, then they just start to go down rabbit holes and freak out about things that are really— they— that I think are not a valuable place for them to put their time and energy into. And so, for example, like freaking out about, you know, I peeled a bunch of lemons today and now what am I going to do with the lemon peels? You know, like I love people that are so, so into sustainability, but it also, I feel like we get really myopic because we don't think about the systems that created those things. And one of the things I love highlighting about, like, let's say the lemon peel example is you know, composted. Like, great if you have the time and space and energy to create, um, you know, lemon balm or anything that you could make out of those, you know, Christmas decorations. Like, I've seen so many great ideas on Pinterest. And also, it's like a cautionary thing that I also like to offer to folks is that, like, nature makes things that are food for other systems. So if you can't do those creative things with your lemon peels, I just want to say like, it's okay. Like you, if you have the ability to compost those things, nature's going to take care of it the way that it's been doing for millions and millions of years. And so when we talk about consumer goods and things that are less, like they're more complex, exactly what you're talking about, even smelting metals down or, you know, getting to the right carrot has a much bigger place of effect that you can have when you think about the types of choices that you're making. Am I going to buy a diamond ring from, you know, that's not certified fair trade, or I don't know where it's come from, the metals, I don't know where the metals have come from, versus talking to someone like yourself, or as you were sharing, you know, picking ethically mined gold that's fair trade. Like, there's You're right, the industry's come a long way. There's a lot of certifications out there. I feel like those are much greater places that we can illustrate where there's huge knock-on effect for the choices that you're actually making as a consumer that are far beyond, um, what you could ever imagine. Like you said, unless you were literally there witnessing those gems coming out of the ground or witnessing them being, um, cut and polished. And I wanted to ask you quickly about that. For example, when you say vertically integrated, the company that you're working with in India, can you share a little bit more about that vertical integration and how far back or up or whatever the reference is, does that company go?

Well, so they're getting rough from reputable dealers and then the rough comes in and they're cutting there and hand cutting and hand polishing. And then, you know, also, you know, the gold work is being done there. It's very rare to find— you can't even find anything like that in North America. Very few people, unless you're, you know, I don't know, I don't even know a company that really does that in North America. So, you know, that, that, that modes to, you know, not having to go all over the place, you know, and traveling in all these different directions to make that final piece. You know, the other thing I wanted to add here is, which is just another huge consideration, and I struggled with that because I'm a luxury brand. My packaging, you know, was also a big thing, and trying to find eco-friendly luxury packaging, it's almost next to nothing. And I first, when I started out, I really had very little packaging, but then that wasn't very nice as a consumer getting anything. And like, how do I You know, so I try to make sure that I, I, I put my pieces in bags that people aren't gonna throw out. You know, like it's a branding thing, but it's also something like, you know, they're gonna always have a little bag for that, for their jewelry, always, you know, different things like that. I mean, it's just, and then when you see some branding, you know, and their packaging, you're just going, oh my God, like half of that's to the garbage. I'll never use that, right? So, you know, I tried to use cloth bags and different things. I mean, it's— yeah, it's, it's a, it's a dance, you know, like I said, it's—

And do you find— yeah, this is great because one of my questions always to my guests are what are hurdles or trade-offs that you're struggling with? So thank you for bringing that up. Packaging is a massive issue for so many organizations. So Have you found that your customers, especially luxury, and like when we say luxury, I know that some of your pieces are like $10,000 and plus. So we're really talking about people really investing a lot of money in, in their jewelry. Have you had like a positive response about the packaging that you've picked or have you had pushback from that or questions?

No, I mean, I'm trying to do little things like You know, as an example, I'll go to India and I'll buy like some beautiful handmade wooden boxes, let's just say. And, you know, I'm supporting an artist there, and I'm able to put a piece of jewelry like that in a beautiful box that would be presented. So I'm trying to find little ways like that, you know, to kind of just make something so that I'm supporting someone else. It's not just like a massive company. I mean, obviously I have, you know, my lower price point pieces that go into a cloth bag, but yeah, I'm just trying to be inventive and aware and also honoring the fact that someone is investing a piece in $10,000 plus, that they want to have something that really feels special because nobody's doing that every day.

No, that's so true. And it's such a big, like, Well, for engagement, I guess, uh, you know, like people being presented with like an open box and it's so part of the culture.

Yeah, it's an experience. It's like you're experiencing receiving something of great value that needs to come into some— that has to be beautiful. It has to have a beautiful presentation. Yeah. Um, so how do you create that experience mindfully and eco-friendly.

It's wonderful. And as we were kind of talking about previously about intention and ceremony, it's something that is not thought through as well, I think, in other jewelers that I've come across. So I appreciate the time and energy that you put into thinking about that, and that you're, as an artist, recognizing other people's crafts For example, you know, going to India and buying hand-carved boxes. And so many of them have beautiful, like, brass inlay and like the skill and time that it took for that person to build their craft is just— it's mind-boggling to me. So yeah, it's beautiful. I also just wanted to quickly touch on like the culture of diamonds and how I used to want to be a gemologist. Um, so for the listeners that don't know my background, I studied my first degree at the University of British Columbia and became an exploration geologist, and I worked in mining, um, gold and silver mostly. But my favorite class that was taught by this fantastic, uh, professor who has unfortunately now passed— his name was Dr. Ted Danner, and he was a gemologist, and he collected gems, and it was just so fascinating learning about where all these things come from and how they're forming. And it's always mind-blowing to me that we're still discovering new kinds of gems. Like, the Earth has so much that it has to offer us still. Like, tanzanite is one that's really come on, like, rushed onto the market. It only occurs in one place in the entire world. It's in the anticline cracks, like hydrothermal fluids. Like, I get super nerd out about it. But the thing that I wanted to bring up that was so interesting about this class was the story about diamonds and how they're artificially held back, or they're— the market for them is artificially inflated. And there's a massive monopoly on diamonds around the world. And they're actually one of the most common gemstones that occur on Earth. So, and this is not to say like to diminish the value and the beauty of them. I think they're incredible stones, but it's just, there's things like this that we don't think about or hear about per se about like, well, why do you have to, why do you, what is it that you have to spend 3 months salary on your engagement ring? Well, that's actually like a marketing thing that De Beers came up with and had so much money behind them that they put it out into the world. And now men are, you know, worried, or ladies, if they're buying their partners, um, diamond rings, might still have that in their head. So I wanted to ask you, um, what is your favorite gemstone, and what do you feel like one of the best investments of a gemstone might be for consumers listening?

Uh, well, I'm no expert in that field, but I, from what I here. I mean, you know, to be honest, like rubies are really becoming very difficult to find, and, um, they're— they are— have gone up extraordinary in price. In fact, a lot of them, especially a really deep red one, can be way more than a price of a diamond. Um, yeah, you know, I feel sorry for, you know, men and all this pressure. And in fact, you know, like even the size of the diamonds are getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know. It's, it's crazy. My personal, personal favorite though, I love— there's a few, but spinels. I absolutely love the fire of a spinel, a great spinel. They come in various different colors from pink to red to blues, lavender, all good, and they just have fire. I love a beautiful ruby. I, I I absolutely love a beautiful ruby, and I love old mine-cut diamonds. Love them. So, um, yeah, uh, I've kind of fallen in love a little bit with moonstones lately. And, um, but, you know, I don't think there is a gem I've ever met that I didn't like.

I, I think I'm probably in that bucket firmly with you as well. Yeah. And I love the shift of— I see a little bit of shift in the market. I think I'd— you and I briefly discussed Misfit Diamonds. They're folks that are in Vancouver, and they're looking at different diamonds and sapphires and marketing them for their impurities and for their Yeah, I mean, I get that.

I think that's a really cool— it's a very specific look. I really ask people to pick color and clarity and quality over everything. And now here's the reason why. And this is just me personally, because that is a reflection of your relationship.

Hmm.

And if you have something that's super flawed and got cracks and all these different things, and what is that saying?

Yeah, that's true.

So, you know, find— I'd rather see a customer find a really good quality smaller than a bigger diamond that's got not such great color and flaws. You'll go a long way with that, I think. And let's be real, people, diamonds are not investment. Don't let anybody tell you that. You will never get your money back. On a diamond, you could get your money back on, say, a really fantastic ruby or emeralds, you know, maybe. But like some of those, there's some really— what other— even tanzanites, but really, I mean, excellent, excellent quality, right? You've got the excellent quality, the specimens. Of course, color diamonds, if you can, you know, get your hands on a great pink, you know, those, but they're, you know, they're like a million dollars a carat. Sure.

If you've got the—

I think there has to be a lot of research. As I said, I'm not an expert in, you know, what would be a great investment. I could probably give you a guide to follow, you know, like maybe your listeners can follow. There's a couple of Instagram people that I admire and follow and feel to be trustworthy that have really great knowledge about investment stones. But, um, sure, early, not a diamond, that's for sure. I mean, everybody goes, oh, you know, I spent $20,000 on this diamond, what can I get? Well, you know, you might get, you know, a third of that. You know, if someone's gonna— it's all about what the buyer is willing to pay. I don't care if it's a great diamond. I don't care if it's a flawless, you know, F color. You're just— you're always going to get a lower price point from what you actually paid.

Yeah, well, it's a great point.

I appreciate the jeweler like myself. Let's just say I have to invest my money. Let's just say I spent $15,000 on that diamond. I've got to sit on that. And wait until somebody will buy it. And that, you know, so that means, is that an investment where I want to put my money? Do I think that would be a good return? Do I have that on my flush? All those different things, you know, every jewelry designer thinks like that.

Yeah, there's so many— thank you for highlighting— there's so many factors that, you know, from one perspective it's just a transaction, but from your perspective and other jewelry designers, there's this So many things that you have to think about, which I feel like is just a perfect loop back into why would you not want to take jewelry that you already own that has been gifted forward to you? There's gold in your hands, or silver, or platinum, or metals that could be transmuted into new pieces. And the gems, you know the impact of them because you've been wearing them, or they've been in your jewelry box for 10, 20, 15 years, 2 years, whatever your timeline is, and there's no further environmental impacts from taking gems that you have and having them transmuted into new pieces, which is—

I mean, also, you know, sometimes I find, um, you know, that, um, you know, the gems have been kind of beaten up a little bit, and sometimes we need to repolish them. I just want to make a quick note here to your listeners is that I don't work in silver, and the reason why I don't is that, uh, You know, the alloys in different countries are different. And so I spent a huge amount of time creating a piece for you. It's not worth, not worth it for me, like, for you to spend your money on me making you a piece and have it cast in silver. So I don't do that. But, you know, you can maybe find somebody who does, but it's, it's really it's not really worth it.

That's fair. And I think, uh, probably in my, my opinion, the best thing for old silver jewelry that you don't want is, uh, sell it for melt because it is constantly in demand on the industrial metals market.

So, or, or give it away.

Yeah, right.

You know, like, it's like, hey, you know, share it with a friend, or, you know, there's always somebody out there who— no one's gonna, you know, say no.

Yeah, that's right. It's a great point.

Thank you. Yeah.

So we talked about hurdles and trade-offs for your business. I'm curious if you have any big wins and things that you would like to celebrate related to sustainability and your business.

I don't think anything's like these big wins. I think they're little wins all along the way. They're like tiny bites that just keep perpetuating forward to a better place. Where I feel really good about what I'm making and how I'm treating the earth. And, um, you know, I might like, you know, again, as I said, you know, there's so many people involved. You know, as an example, I'm just gonna just share, you know, I've got one guy that does my casting. I've got one guy I go to like for small diamonds, and I've got a few other people I go to big diamonds. I got all these different people. I've got a technician for this, I got a technician for that, blah blah blah blah blah, like all day long, right? So that there's like so many people that touch that final piece, um, and, and that's the orchestra, like you're an orchestrator, you know. And, and so each time maybe somebody comes up with a better way to do something that you add in the drop in the bucket You know what I mean? So I can't say there's like, wow, this is like revolutionary, because I don't think there's anything like wow out there in our industry. There just isn't. It's like these tiny little steps of consciousness and making sure you're attracting like-minded people that are part of your whole circle that add to, you know, I use the word ahimsa, you know, from India. It's called non-injury. It's like non-injury to the planet and animals and different things. And so it's like, how do I just make that less and less? And so it's just tiny little, little bites all along the way.

Hmm. Yeah, that approach, and it's, it's a valuable approach, uh, so valuable because you're right, it's very rarely that we have big wins. And, and a big win might also just really be the accumulation of so many little pieces that you've spent so much time. I know how much time you've spent investing in finding those like-minded people. And it just creates this energy and momentum that's different, that carries your business in a different way. And, you know, kudos to you and congratulations for your perseverance and your vision.

Thank you. I mean, I just, you know, it's a journey and in those relationships that you cultivate and and all of that. I mean, if I look back at, you know, 23 years ago, and just because I had to learn myself, you know, I, like I said, I, I stepped into it completely unaware of where those gemstones came from. You're just like, oh yeah, that guy, he's got the great, uh, amethyst and I'll just buy it from him. I'm like, well, where are you getting it? You know, I, you just, you know, because you're learning so much just as a maker, you can't be so like, it's, it's hard to think of all the different other facets of the business. So, you know, it's, it's grow— it's growing. You grow, you grow into it.

Yeah, I think it's generally great advice that you just do the best with what you can in your context.

Absolutely.

You know, we can— I have this ongoing dialogue with folks that I work with, uh, about greenwashing, specifically in the fashion industry. And there's, there's the folks that are like have a lot of money, that have huge marketing budgets and big brands that really don't have an excuse for it. But there's also a lot of folks that are just like you said, they're learning, they're makers, they're growing, and any greenwashing that comes from them might be accidental because they just don't have the space or capacity or haven't, haven't come across that part of their business yet to really like be able to deep dive into it or make change. They're just trying to keep their business going.

So Yeah, it's, it's, it, you know, we have so— like, I, I was walking actually towards my, um, Castor this morning, and I was walking past a store and it said, um, 5 t-shirts for $25. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, they've got rent, they've got to have, you know, markup. Who's getting paid to make that? Where's that fabric? You know, it's like you think about stuff like And yeah, I mean, fashion, fashion is certainly exploding, the eco part of it. And I think we are— our industry, the jewelry industry, kind of got, if I can use the term on your podcast, bitch slapped. We got slapped, you know, about, about, you know, the blood diamond situation. But now, you know, in the last year or two, I would say more so Certainly was years ago, but now the fashion industry is really kind of getting, you know, their tree shaken down, which good because we see, you know, evidence of it where, you know, landfills are filled with clothing that some child who's, you know, freezing somewhere else could use that coat or something.

Yeah.

So, you know, there's— we have so much work to do, you know, is trying to put all the connecting the dots. I just want to call it connecting the dots. It's like, okay, we see an overuse here and we don't, you know, we don't have enough here. Someone has to be able to connect those dots. And it's a huge process. Again, you know, as I said, it's building relationships. Building a business that you can pay yourself and feed your family with, you know, the cost of living, all these factors, you know, like you can't, you can't be doing this thing for free, you know, when you've got, you know, 2, 3 mouths to feed. I mean, it's like, it's, but yet our planet has to learn how to take in and recycle everything.. And so that we can be sustainable. We know that. I mean, the people who have the consciousness towards that know that, but so much, so much to learn still. And I think we'll look back in 10, 20 years from now and go, oh my God, we used to do that. And I mean, I'm still in areas in the country, like if you go to, like, you go to India as an example, what people's garbage is, is being used in, you know, some of the, you know, the slums that are, you know, that's their housing, but they're, but they're so innovative and you're like, holy crap, you can't even believe they're using that as part of building their house. And so you see that natural ability to utilize stuff. And I, it fascinates me, every country you go to, you know, I've been to Bali and, you know, their water in their oceans are in terrible, terrible distress. And, um, and there is a lot of people that just don't have the knowledge, or the— or maybe they're lazy and they just, they just throw things out, you know. It's like, it's— we all have to get educated, and, um, and it's the number one thing. And it's— which is so wonderful in what you're doing, because you, you are, you are stepping on that platform of education and, and, and offering that to families and we're thinking about things. And even when my girls are washing dishes, I'm like, you're running that water too long. It's a resource that you're having. You're just flushing it down. You've got to be mindful. And, you know, we're just— they're like, oh, whatever. Like, you know, one day you're going to, you know, you're going to realize how valuable that water is and how many people don't have it. And Ah, you know, you only can learn that by being around and seeing what other people are dealing with. And you go, oh wow, I'm really blessed. I have recycling programs here on the North Shore. A lot of places don't even have recycling, and people are lazy and they just want to chuck that crap out and just go on. And it's like, no, you can't.

Yeah, it's called wish cycling. Yeah, you just throw it in the blue bin and hope somebody else deals with it. Um, yeah, yes, so many amazing points. I feel like we could totally talk so much about fashion and how, you know, I'm glad that that came up because it's, um, you know, something worth briefly talking about when we— I feel like because I also work in textiles right now that, uh, you're right that the fashion industry did get a big kick in the pants Um, especially with exposés, like people going into the SHEIN factory in China and, or reporting that, you know, SHEIN workers are literally stitching in like, help me, um, labels. I don't know if you saw that article where there's evidence of labels being stitched into people's clothing asking for help, and like the amount of poor conditions and the hours, and like they're not allowed breaks. All for fast fashion so we can buy like $10 yoga pants from Shein Fashion. And then the other one that was so impactful for me is that I saw photos of the Atacama Desert in South America that was just like a giant textile garbage dump.

Yeah.

And so we know many things go to Africa and there's a lot of amazing graders and sorters that are working to identify those secondary or third, like tertiary markets. We have one in Maple Ridge that like, they have, they have narrowed it down so, so well that they know exactly where to send wool coats to, where the mini skirts go, where the jeans go. Like, but you're right, we are still in this take-make-waste system and circularity is such a hot topic right now. And the thing that gives me so much hope is that there's like, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people around the world working on these problems and trying to identify markets and technologies and redesign things, not just textiles, but redesign many, many things. And I feel like your example of Recycle Your Love is one beautiful small-scale example of what one person can do and one— the impact that you can have with making those different thought processes about where do my materials come from? Where are they going, how are they going to be treated, can we pick differently, design differently. So yes, I agree that looking back, it's a, it's a hard time sometimes to be on the planet, and it's also a really exciting time right now to be on the planet with— I know I get inspired by all these folks working in so many different ways. It gives me a lot of hope.

Yeah, we can totally get bogged down and taken out and be super disappointed and, and angry at human beings for doing the stupid things that they do and companies making ridiculous, you know, I saw a post about it was Coach, or I think it was, was one of the, you know, handbags and all their, the worker had to take an X-Acto knife to these, you know, with tiny flaws, tiny flaws, and, and X-Acto knife them right down the middle. And I'm like, Do you know how many women that are out there, you know, or, or, you know, uh, homeless women, or, you know, are in need or trying to find a job, it could use a bag like that to just— little things like, oh my God, you know, it's— it could be so— you could get so angry. And yet you have to, have to, have to look at the people that are making the change, like you really well said, because that's where your mindset has to be. It has to be in the place of hope. Otherwise, you know, I think I would probably just spend my entire life drunk. Oh, you know, totally. You know, you just, you'll be angry and agitated. And guess what? You'll never think of positive things to make change that way. You know, you'll always be that person who, you know, oh, did you see this? And did you see that? Yeah, you know what? We all know all that Crap is happening, but what are you going to do about it?

Exactly. I love it. That's a perfect segue into my final question for you, which is if you could pick up a paintbrush, which I know you're really good with, and paint an ideal picture for Recycle Your Love, what would be an ideal future outcome that you would like, or for your business in whole?

Wow.

Um, just to, you know, again, I just, as, as the collectiveness of the people that I work with, for us all to just keep trying and, and working up that ladder to make less and less of an imprint on the planet. Um, I, I don't think, like I said, I don't think there's one big stroke. I think they're just tiny little little strokes, you know, so that you can make that big picture one day and be really proud that you've been a part of change in an industry that was trashed. And, uh, uh, and now, I mean, you know, and then you can have a lot of people go, well, there's just not, you know, there's only so much gold and there are only so much stones. Yeah, you're right, there are. And, um, but I think that we'll find ways of adornment. We'll find— we'll, we'll find other ways, and, um, it'll be innovative and smart and intelligent and beautiful and sexy and luxurious. And, uh, we'll, we'll find ways to love and, um, and to adorn ourselves that feel aligned with who, who you are.

Beautiful answer. Um, and you're right, there is only so much gold. And I wrote my thesis on the future of mining when I did my master's degree, and that has to shift as well because we, uh, need to start better mining. And I'm not knocking the industry because there's a lot of this going on already, Um, but I think it's an important point to say that we, we need metals in our life. We absolutely rely on them for our quality of life, especially when you think about healthcare and communication, which builds connection and builds personal sustainability. And gold, uh, we are really good at throwing away. In electronics. And, uh, I feel like we, I, we just need to continually get better at capturing those metals. And they're infinitely recyclable. They're beautiful, actually.

Keep gouging at Mother Gaia all the time and giving her all these pockmarks of, you know, and digging all these holes and not thinking that this is not gonna, um change the future landscape. But, you know, that's like lifetimes away. Not to say that I don't think about it, you know, I think about, you know, my future girls and, and, you know, their children and my grandchildren and all those things. But I don't know what that answer is. But as I said, it's just one little tiny step at a time, just into that conscious and awareness. And that's really what it— we're change happens. It doesn't happen in a big situation. It just doesn't. I think that's— it's, um, it's too much.

Yeah, it is.

We have to learn.

What's that?

We have to learn through the little steps, because if something big happened, you're like, whoa, there it is. But, you know, we haven't learned through that. You know, we have learned to actually, um, honor the earth, you know.

Yeah, and I was just saying, here we are sitting dreaming about our future generations and the impact that, you know, we're— we are carrying on that tradition of dreaming that forward. So, yes, so beautiful. Thank you so much for this conversation. I am so appreciative and so much gratitude and love for you. Um, and before we wrap up, would you like to share how listeners can connect with you?

Oh, thank you. Uh, yes, I have a website, uh, sonjapicard.com. S-O-N-J-A-P-I-C-A-R-D. You can also find me on Instagram at Sonia Picard, and then I have my, my little art— it's a small little page, but, uh, Sonia Picard Fine Art, where I paint, uh, on the side. My side gig.

Yeah, I'd like to argue that it's not so much of a side gig and impact, but probably just because you don't have a lot of time. Yes, your paintings are beautiful. Thank you for all of that. Again, so grateful that you were here with us today. And for listeners, I'll put— for listeners that learn through reading and visual, I will put all of your links in the show notes.

Below. All right, thank you. All right, Tracy, thank you so much. Be well.

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