Validation and Openness in Conversations

Hey, this is Tim Pratt Jr. and I want to welcome you to the Student of Life podcast. Listen, we're going to get into so many transferable truths throughout the content of these episodes that I believe God is going to use to help you apply, because he's going to reveal what's already been there the entire time. Enjoy. Hey yo, what's up?

So this is your host Tim Pratt Jr. and we're going to get into episode 5 of this season. So typically I do a faith-based episode here, but we're just going to take a shift. And now, uh, what I'm going to start doing is just kind of looking at the dream. I'm still going to stick with some of the faith-based stuff. Definitely going to have one next episode that I want to speak to some things just concerning, uh, faith in general, that just in the body of Christ, the local church. Uh, but we're going to get into that one next Monday, next Monday. Uh, but this one right here, we're going to call it Validation and Openness in Conversations. I'm gonna say it again, validation and openness in conversation. That might be my preacher side coming out when I repeat myself. Um, nevertheless, this episode right here is challenging for me, uh, primarily because like I strive to be the best communicator I can. Now I'm not always talking about in the context of public speaking, uh, preaching the gospel, which is another form of public speaking, um, and you know, keynote or things of that nature, which is— I do, I do, let me, let me make it clear. But what I'm saying more so in this the context of this episode is that I strive to be an effective communicator because this is something that I did not have. Like, I wish I would have spent a lot of time growing up. Like, I didn't even really realize how to communicate my feelings and those things. I would just always say, I don't know. I didn't know how to put words to them. Um, so much is growing up, and it wasn't until I really started reading and then going into therapy which really brought this out. And I'm still learning, and I'm still still trying to put language to things. Um, so that's why this episode right here is challenging for me, because I said that to say like I haven't mastered all of this, uh, but some things I am, some things I am a lot more mature in, but I'm striving. And I don't know if I ever would master it, uh, but the goal is to just kind of follow these things. And every day I'm trying, especially in my marriage, with my kids, with family members, with, uh, just anybody in my personal life and professional life. That I'm trying to just become more, more mature with following this outline. I would say 80% of the time I do, um, I, I do, especially in a professional setting. With people that I care near and dear to my heart, I need to stop and do it even more, but it's like for some reason it's a little bit more challenging because like if my wife gives me feedback, I try to create that open space and I think I've I'm getting better at it, um, but nevertheless, man, her words, you know, they carry a lot more weight. But however, there's no excuses because I, I, I should respect her just as much as I respect anybody else and give her that open space as well. Uh, but let's jump into it. So like I say, this, this episode is Validation and Openness in Conversation. So, you know, one of the things I believe is very important, especially in today's climate, when you look at the political climate, like People have lost their ability to sit and think and just use wisdom and good judgment. Like, for example, if I say, hey, there are some things I like about, uh, President Kamala, and there are some things I like about, uh, Vice President Kamala, and some things I like about former President Donald Trump, uh, I could even go and say, man, there's some things I liked about President Barack Obama, and there's some things that I, I disliked about President, uh, former President Barack Obama. But It's like people lose their sight. It's like it's just black and white, there's no gray area, and we don't listen to one another. And then that's the problem right there. I, I don't, I don't look for people that always 100% agree with me. Now, true story, my wife used to hurt my feelings when she didn't disagree with me, but nevertheless, uh, it doesn't anymore. It's just like, I'm like, okay, what am I missing? There's some things I'm going to remain strong on, and there are certain things she's going to remain strong on. Then there are certain things I'd be like, okay babe, I can see that perspective. Um, but most of the time we don't get there when we don't hear each other, when we are so focused on what we— and then what kind of— we start communicating in a less heartfelt tone. It's more so now I'm standing where I stand, you stand where you stand, and that's it. And, you know, but we're married, of course, and sooner or later we come back and, you know, and we're mature in that area. So what I'm saying is that if we can master the validation and openness and conversation, I think even in disagreements we can still get somewhere. Because a lot of times, like, I don't know if you remember the, the picture out there that went across the internet where it was like two Spider-Mans and they were pointing on each end, and then I think something was— one was saying it was 9 and one was saying it was a 6, but it was all about perspective. And so sometimes that does happen, and then sometimes people are just completely off. Like, let's just call it what it is, like there's no perspective, they are just completely off. And so you— we have to balance that. But even in that, we still want to be, you know,, you know, uh, model this. So I've been talking for almost 5 minutes into this episode, so let's jump into it. Uh, so it is very important to have healthy communication and understanding in relationships. Like, that's general, whether it's, uh, like I said, an intimate relationship, whether it's just relationship by proximity, whether it's just simply a co-worker, an associate, or whatever. Some type of way there's a relationship, and it's very, very important. And I love what Jesse Maxwell, uh, quote— I'm gonna actually start with one quote and then two verses. So this is gonna Let's just tie this all together and we'll jump into the meat of it. So John C. Maxwell said, people may hear your words, but they feel your attitude. People may hear your words, but they feel your attitude. Now, I do think we live in a hypersensitive culture today, so we have to balance this because, like I say again, I strive to be very diplomatic. I strive to believe that there's a right way to say everything, and it still doesn't work sometimes. And it— and that's just the nature of it because, again, we live in a hypersensitive culture, uh, today, everything offends a lot of people. So, uh, but people— but that never— like I said, let me, let me take a step back. But that does not mean I shouldn't strive to— there's a time that, to be blunt— I'm probably blunt like 10-15% of the time. But check this out, I love when people are blunt with me. I, I hate when people give me fluff. I don't, I don't need fluff, just be straight to the point. But at the same time, I know, uh, when I'm communicating with people, a lot of people love fluff. And so I just try to find that, that middle ground. But I also know it's people like, hey Tim, stop going around ABC 123 and just give it to me straight. And I can't do anything but respect that. And so again, just people may hear your words, but they feel your attitude, as John C. Maxwell said. So let's switch gears just a little bit and also set this up with two verses from Proverbs. Proverbs 15:1 and Proverbs 18:2. So Proverbs 15:1 reads, a gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Again, I believe there's a right way to say everything. Now, am I always going to get that right? No, but that does not change the point and the principle that I believe there's a right way to say everything. Um, Proverbs 18:2: Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. So for me, in context, what this means is that that is so true. Fools absolutely find no pleasure in understanding. So there are some people out there that they just don't want to hear you, no matter how much you validate them, no matter how much you try to be opening, they want to be a fool because they take delight in their own opinions. And most of the time you can see me like that, um, is if I'm in an argument and I have lost my cool. I don't care about it. I'm just like the— it's rare, but that is probably when— and, and it goes for me too. Like, I ain't being a fool right now because I'm more so concerned about delighting in my own opinion rather than seeking understanding. And so when I recognize that that's the person that I'm dealing with I just— I'm done. Like, I'm not gonna continue to engage with a fool. So yeah, we're here now. We're here now. Point number 1. Point number 1: the power of validation. So simply put, uh, validation is recognizing, accepting another person's feelings. That's all it is. It's just I am recognizing and I'm accepting. I don't even have to go as far as to say, uh, I feel where you're coming from, because if I don't, I don't feel where you come from. But I can say, hey, okay, I recognize and I accept that. Um, not saying I agree, I'm not saying I fully understand it, but I recognize it and I, uh, I recognize it and I accept it. And so, uh, again, because I believe it's hard for people to do this, especially in this landscape, because this is the thing: validation does not mean agreement. It does not mean agreement, but it just means that I somewhat understand, or based on what you're saying, I, I can understand how you came there. I, I understand your perspective. But again, that does not mean that I fully agree with it. That doesn't even mean— and I know this sounds kind of contradictory— it might not even mean that I totally understand it because I might have not come through the same experiences that you do, the background. But it's saying, in an awareness of this conversation, I can validate it. And based on what you share with me, based on what you're saying, and taking all of that in consideration, hey, I have a better understanding, or I do understand it. But nevertheless, it's about just validating that person's, uh, perspective. Their, their feelings is accepting it. It's not necessarily an agreement, meaning, oh, okay, I agree with you, we should move in this direction. No, that's not. And, and that's one thing I just believe we have to learn today when it comes to communication. Because again, uh, my background is not going to be the same background as a white man. But does that white man need to apologize for being a white man? No. Um, do they need to apologize to me for being Black? No. It's just we, we probably have different backgrounds, but that does not mean all white men have not had challenges in life. Uh, we just— we have had different things and we can find that common ground, but they will never fully understand what it is to be a black man, and I would never fully understand for them to be a white man. Vice versa, I don't know what it is to be a white or black woman. I'm a black male. I'm, I'm 100% man. And so that's like, that's just what it is. I, I don't have any full understanding. But if they talk to me and they say, hey, like, let's just use an example here. Let's say Vince is, uh, a woman, white or black, or is in a role, and then myself and another white man, or either white or black— well, I'm black, so I'm in a role, I'm black. So, so, um, and we're going up for it, and so I do something, they do something, and then they come to me and say, well, I don't feel like they hear me. And I'm like, well, I mean you talk, you're very, you know, uh, very educated, you're, you're very clear with your words, you're probably one of the best communicators here. And they say, no, I still don't feel like they hear me because I'm a woman. That is not up for me to start going, oh, here we go with this feminist and all this stuff. That is not— that is for me to listen to her and be like, okay, like, explain, you know, if she's willing to be open. And then I can say, okay, I— let's say, even if I know the person, like, let's say if I'm closer to the person that they're talking about, and I'm like, I know that that's not them but she feels they are. So I can say in that moment, I believe that's okay. Hey, I, I understand where you're coming from. Uh, now if I really know the person, I know they're not like this, I can say, you know, I, I disagree, or I don't agree that they are like this. I think you just need to talk to them. However, but I do understand your perspective. Let's say if it's— I don't know the person, then here it goes. Hey, okay, I don't really know if that's them or not. Um, based on what I've seen. But however, I still understand, I totally accept where you're coming from, and I still encourage you to talk to them. Now let's say it was— I do know the person is like this, and I'm like, yeah, that's true. Okay, now I could just full out agree. I could be like, hey, you know, I, I understand, I agree, I just didn't see it at the moment. Like, these are conversations again that we need to learn how to have when it comes to— but the last one is more so an agreement, but the first two is just an understanding of perspective. And we have to do that because again, she could be going, like I said, I don't feel heard, I feel overlooked, I don't feel taken serious, I feel like they don't feel like women should be in leadership. I'm not experiencing those things, but does that dis— uh, does it— Lord help me with my words, uh, does that disregard— should I disregard what she's saying? No. So validation, just validation, uh, that, that's how we do, because it's backgrounds, it's even fears. Like, I work with people Um, like, and I'm gonna tread lightly here, but I've worked with people that are just afraid to say anything in a meeting. Uh, I used to be a person where I wasn't necessarily afraid, I was just quiet because I didn't want to say something that was considered dumb, like especially early on in my career. I'm like, okay, I'll sit in a one-on-one and maybe in a smaller setting. And I remember when a manager challenged me one time, there was like, I'm not saying you're always right, But 85 to 90% of the time, what you're asking and what you're saying is a well, uh, thought-out point. Again, somebody might disagree, but it's a valid point. But I will always share those things in a one-on-one or like in a, in a small group setting versus a meeting with 15, 20 people, um, because I was just very, very reserved. Like, and this is like when I'm talking about when I was an intern in like 2021, '22, uh, of course, you know, I started just preaching and maturing and growing and all of that. And then I, you know, end up taking like a more of a project manager, technical project manager, Scrum-type role where I had to always communicate and again build that on top of preaching. And I just had a chance to mature and grow, and I just got more comfortable and comfortable with, uh, just sharing. And now like it doesn't matter. Like, you know, I'm just not a big talker because— and let me take that back, I am a big talker in a certain context, but I'm a person where I don't like to talk just to talk. Like, I want to have something to say. If I don't have anything to say, it's not me being fearful, it's just I absolutely don't have anything. So again, like, these are things that helps bring for understanding. So I want to get into the mind, like, hey, why, why do you have this fear? I don't have to agree, but I just want to have understanding. Uh, and I, and I hope that makes it just a little bit more easier to have, like, these irrational, uh let me see, to downplay these irrational reactions that we may have. And so this is like, from my perspective, the, the benefits in making people feel supported. Like, that's all this is. Thank you, Holy Spirit. This is the benefit of making people feel supported, because especially when they are distraught, they're angry, or they're concerned or whatever, like, this is all about helping them feel supported. So that, that's point number one, that's the power of validation, um, in the context of this episode. Point number 2, point number 2, effective validation techniques, effective validation techniques. So again, um, we just kind of talked about there are a lot of tips out there that you can look at. I mean, there's a host of things on the internet, um, YouTube videos, podcasts, books, uh, Crucial Conversations is one of them. Uh, I Hear You is a book that really inspired this. Ryan Leak has one, I think— no, he has one coming out in March. Like working with anybody or something of that nature. But again, um, we just want to make sure that we— I just want to make sure that you're taking the time to consider the other person's perspective. Like, that's the biggest thing. Are you taking the time to consider the other person's perspective and then basically looking at, okay, the influences that might be affecting their reactions, uh, or the influences that just, just might be impacting their reactions? Because Let me back up a little bit. So in this one, when I'm looking, I'm analyzing people. Like, I, I— so I, I went to school from a seminary perspective. Like, so on the secular side, I went to school, I started out in drafting design technology. I was gonna go be a mechanical engineering major because at first I wanted to be an architect, and then so that didn't work. Got in a lot of trouble, um, and stuff. Yes, I'm saved, but I always said, man, like, your boy could have been a felon, uh, but nevertheless, uh, I was just wrong. Just, man, that's all another episode. But, um, I had got into a lot of trouble, so it kind of switched some things up having a child. But, you know, found out, uh, the lady that I was with that was pregnant, um, and so now a child is coming into the world. I'm 19 years old, I didn't got into a whole lot of trouble, then I hear the words I'm pregnant. So this is all at 19, you know, and so I go back home for a little bit, um, and all of this stuff. And so, you know, I finish school, I finish school, I come back, I get a job. And I'm giving this for context because I don't mind— everybody knows I'm like probably very, very transparent here. Uh, vulnerability is my superpower, Tim Pratt Jr. says. But, um, so I come back I mean, I go home, I come back, and so I, you know, work two jobs. Uh, I finally get an offer. I get this offer at Molex as an intern at basically 20, 21 years old. So, um, I'm going through life and, um, I'm trying to like go back and finish my bachelor's. So now I'm kind of teetering on this like project management stuff and so leadership, like I'm picking up books. I'm like, man, I want to switch. So I go to school online. Uh, I do some research because now I, I want to like just totally go in a different direction. So I major in— I get my associate's in business administration and then my bachelor's in management with a concentration on, uh, project leadership. That, that was— those were the courses. Like, so this really, really opened the door for like that project understanding and as well as that leadership understanding. So, um, I go there And then I finished. And so now I'm like real deal, like, man, I'm like, I'm getting into God's word. Like, I'm really— like, my dad, you know, all the seeds that were sown, just people of faith, not just my dad, but just people I like admired a lot, they're starting to plant them seeds. Now I'm divorced, I'm dating, I'm dating now, and to the woman I'm married to now. And so it's just, I'm around her family some, and they're preachers and teachers of the gospel. So Like, now the— like, it's this word and stuff. And so, um, I, you know, just started studying. But by that time, I also had, you know, worked and I went back to seminary school to get my bachelor's in, uh, counseling, theological counseling. So then, you know, years later, I'm married, all this stuff, and I go back later for ministry and leadership, pastoral leadership. So I said all that to say this, like, in those seminaries, courses of that nature, like, it really shaped my mind because all about— of course, the counseling was about counseling. So it, it slowed me down to just really understand and help build that muscle for, uh— now again, it's not a psychology degree or a therapist or anything like that, but it did give me a framework in seminary school to help understand people, like just really try to seek out to understand people. So that's where that comes from. So this is not nothing that I'm practicing or nothing, this is like just who I am.. And it's, it's studying, it's analyzing, it's also talking to the person. It's not overanalyzing, not talking to them, but it's just, it's helping me just sit with that person, um, and try to just understand them and what's influencing their behavior. And unfortunately, you know, like a lot of times these are not big, big things in corporate America. I think that it should be, but it's not. And so, but this is what speaks to that, that burn with wanting to be a coach, agile coach, not just to sit up and talk to people, coach. I still wanna be, you know, help help with project management and things of that nature, and portfolio management, product, um, what's the word I'm looking for, program management of those natures. But at the heart of it, I just believe you have to have both. And I feel like you have to help people with their mindset and you have to have the tactics. So that was a long way to get to this point, a little bit of rambling, but I just felt led and inspired to share that part to say this is who I am. I am always seeking out what's influencing someone's reaction, and sometimes I have to do a self evaluation of what's influencing my reaction this time. Because like, there are times that I come in and I'm sure whatever I think about myself, I'm like, man, I hope that person doesn't think I'm this, or I hope they don't think I'm being a cancer, I hope they don't think that I'm being negative when I'm sharing this information. So these are just like effective validation techniques, um, in the context of just sitting with people and trying to understand their perspective. Because like, you want to be able to help create an environment where the the other person feels very, very, uh, receptive to feedback. That's what I'm trying to say. You want to create an environment that the other person feels very, very receptive to feedback. And so that is what I try to do, whether it's using some of the things I just shared. I use my story, I talk to them, I share my concerns. I try to be— I'm always going to be authentic, and I'm going to have like a selective and balanced transparency with my life. Certain things I'm like not— like not going to share. There's going to be sometimes I say, hey, this between you and I, and I hope it— if I can trust a person. But, uh, for nevertheless, it's just that all of these are just effective validation techniques. Like, I can't give you a list of like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. This is more so a being, because if you get too tied to a list, you might not truly believe it, and it might not be who you are. That, that's why I kind of hate like all of these pre-filled, like, let me get my powerful questions ready when I'm going to coach someone. I'm not saying don't look up powerful questions and study it, but it's like having a list of pre-questions. Sometimes I think it takes away from deep inquiry, deep connection, because it's like I'm so focused on the question to gather information. And no, this curiosity comes from— yes, I've studied those things and they— and one or two powerful questions might come out, but I study so much and to the point where I want to just sit in the midst. I want to sit in the storm with this person and help them and use these techniques that I have gathered and I continue to refine throughout my life to just help them feel receptive to the feedback that I'm about to give, uh, or just help them feel receptive, or just help, uh, invalidate it. Like, hey man, he really understands. And I just think sometimes I could be more impactful. And again, this does not always work because there's some people just going to flat out reject you, but this is what I only think I can just really give you in this context of effective validation techniques. And so the last point, the last point is embracing openness with 4 simple words. And I got this from Ryan Leak more recently. I actually, first time I heard this is I think it was Pastor Judah or something in Seattle, but Ryan Leak sparked it again. And it's simple: I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. We can use this as a tool for fostering open and constructive conversations because a lot of times this right here would disarm people. Now somebody might come off and just find out, yeah, you are, you know, and it's like, okay, that didn't work. But for the most part, uh, I could be wrong can really help foster and open just that, that room for, uh, constructive conversations. And so like If I come to someone, like I just said, like I mean it, like I'm really coming because I'm coming to you in the context of like, hey, I could be wrong, this is my observation. It is very dangerous to go to someone saying, you, you did this, you didn't do that, you're wrong. Like, you're— most of the time people defenses are going to be up. So just simply learning to lead in with, I could be wrong, these are my observations. It could create so much, and it gives you that space for other people, for other people to shift their perspective. And, you know, and one of the things I love about it, just in real time, is that conversations can quickly move from tension because it's like, okay, this person is not on defense anymore, and it can move to an area of space of curiosity. And so kind of like I said earlier, like, that is me, like, I'm in inquiring. I'm really trying to understand so I can help. And this is a journey, it's not a destination, because you'll see sometimes when you're working with people, you have certain conversations, it's like in that moment they get it, then the next 2-3 days it's like they forgot it. So it's just ongoing helping them build that muscle, because we got to be truthful. Coaching, a lot of times it takes time because people are going to default to what they know best. I have seen people like, man, they really got it this time, and then when the pressure is turned up, they, they they just fold right back in the mix because they might not be as dedicated or skillful, or they might not just be you. Like, they might not be a Type A personality or whatever of that nature. So again, we just want to make sure that we move from tension to curiosity, and we want to like truthfully discuss the importance. Like, like, as I think about this, you want to discuss the importance of like, uh, to the person of having this conversation. But at the same time, you know, keep in mind— what I'm trying to say is you want to discuss the intent. Yes, that's it. You want to discuss the intent. I'm a person where I like to declare intent up front, and sometimes I have to think it through because the more sensitive it is, or if it's something that like is coming from something where I kind of have to maintain a level of integrity and transparency, then I have to be careful. But it's like, at the same time, I want to discuss the intent. I want them to know the importance of this, but I also want, uh, to be very intentional up front. Because this is what's going to allow me to be very, very open. It's going to allow both of us to gain new insights and, uh, come up with solutions. Like, we're going to come up with effective solutions by truthfully just acknowledging that there's a possibility of me being wrong, and it's a possibility of you being wrong. It's a possibility of us being wrong. So with that, if we have that space and both of us are disarmed And most of the time it's on the one leading the conversation that kind of needs to do the arming. But I also believe it's something on the receiver. Like, hey, if someone's coming to you and you're the receiver of it and you see they're trying to disarm and have it, hey, um, do the same. Like, don't, don't like let the wall go if you feel it to be genuine, uh, because it's two-way. It's a two-way street. Like, it's not a one-way street in the context of like, um this person is coming— this person is coming with great intent. They're declaring intent up front. They're coming to you in a posture of totally disarming. They really believe they could be wrong. And then it's just like, no, because like if you're the receiver of it, um, then your posture is just off. Then it's like, okay, it's like it's manipulative. It's like, okay, uh, I just want them to cater to me because they are really working and I don't believe that this is just a bunch of, you know, games and whatever, all this type of stuff. And so I'm just going to shut down. I'm going to do what I want to do.

No.

This is both and, like, both people need to participate in this. And so that's why I just really want to encourage you to, like, use these phrases in, like, tense conversations. Like, when the conversation is very, very tense, use these phrases. And this is the thing, you have to be able to stand the storm so you can observe the impact. Because if you see that you're doing all of this and it has no impact, then I would start— use your judgment, but personally with me, like, I'm going to start saying, okay, let me dial it back because I'm not seeing anything from this person. If I press and go deeper, all of this just might make it even worse. So again, I can't give you a list of things like this. It's just going to come down to you practicing it at the end of the day, and it takes time, especially to deal with it in real time. So I just want to encourage you, like, take these techniques, take these points, and just do your homework, do your research, And most importantly, just practice them in your daily interactions. Practice them with people you know. Sit down with some people. Uh, role play can be really, really helpful. I had to do a lot of that in my counseling program, and I hated it at the time, but I'm so thankful, uh, because of just the role playing, like, just to kind of build that muscle over the course of that time. Uh, even in my Pastoral Leadership Master's program Ministry and Leadership program, like same thing. Like, and now in church, you know, when I'm counseling the youth, when I'm actually counseling with young adults and even some adults older than me, like I'm consistently building this, this muscle. I do it in a secular— I had to just make some switches. Like one of them I'm using a lot of scripture, the other one I'm using a lot of principles that's most of the time influenced by scripture, but I'm always for the most part getting the opportunity to really strengthen this muscle in this area when it just comes to effective communication. And then of course my family, like my wife and I, we communicate all the time. We talk a lot. And so we, we both are trying to just, you know, get more mature in these techniques when it comes to each other. So again, just seek out opportunities to just practice. And I know in round point 2, I rambled a little bit with the story. I can say again, I don't— I know my approach is very unorthodox. I don't try to chase rabbit holes. Sometimes I do. But— and I have a high level of self-awareness because it's about to be one now. But for the most part, I just felt led and compelled to share that because that gave you a little background and insight about me. But it was also to just kind of give you the context and how and why I am the way I am when it comes to what I believe in, you know, in this context, and how I strive to just coach and understand like all the nuances that makes up people's life. Like, life is so multifaceted. And so there's always something influencing someone's behavior. And for me, from a coaching perspective, like, I'm always going to try to get to the bottom of that so I can help facilitate the right spaces and try. And then sometimes it's just you don't have the right people, and that's, that's the episode that we talked about, the last one. But sometimes it's just, it's just, it is, it's just a person. It is just a person, and we have to be okay with that, and we have to just let it play out however plays out, especially we don't have any control to move them or, you know, whatever of that nature. So all that being said, I hope this helps, and I hope that you have a better understanding of what it means to validate someone and remain open in a conversation.

Hey, what's up? I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to the Student of Life podcast today. If this content has impacted you in any kind of way, please take some time to share it on your social media feeds. And also, if you want to connect with me or just learn more about me, go over to www.timothypratt.org. Once again, thanks.