303. The Science of Getting Past Small Talk (And What To Share on Dates) w/ Vanessa Bohns

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Welcome back to Dating Intentionally. I'm Talia. I'm sharing no-nonsense advice for navigating dating and relationships with confidence and ease. Whether you've been dating for a while or you're just starting out, I believe dating can be fun, and I'm here to help you enjoy the process. If you've ever left a date wondering, did I say too much? Did I say enough? Did they even like me? This episode is for you. Today I'm talking with Vanessa Bohns, a psychologist and professor at Cornell University who studies social influence, communication, consent, and why it can be so hard to decide what to say and what to keep to ourselves. She's also the author of the new book, Should I Say Something? The Science of What to Share and What to Keep to Yourself. And this conversation is packed with practical dating advice. I found this fascinating. We talk about how much to share in early dating, why vulnerability usually lands better than you think, and the surprising reason your dates probably like you more than you realize. Vanessa also explains why trying to impress someone can actually hurt your connection, the simple conversation habit that makes people feel closer to you, and what your date's reaction to your success can reveal about them. At the end, Vanessa helps me answer a dating dilemma from a woman who is 4 dates in with someone she likes and is wondering whether she needs to proactively tell him she's still dating other people. As always, I love hearing from you. You can shoot me a DM on Instagram. at dating.intentionally or write to me at talia@datingintentionallypod.com. It means a lot to know how the show has helped you, so don't be a stranger. I'm always happy to answer your questions. All right, let's get into it. Welcome Vanessa Bohns to the Dating Intentionally Podcast. I am so excited to get into this topic with you today, and I just wanna start with What made you interested in studying what we choose to say, what we hold back, and how other people respond to us?

I am obsessed with advice columns.

I

don't know about you, but I mean,

I basically have one in audio form, so yes, I'm obsessed.

Good point. Um, so I read them all the time, you know, The Ethicist and Social Cues and just any, you know, magazine advice column and There's a couple things that made me want to write this book. So one is that I started to notice that so many of the questions, I'd say the majority of the questions were about whether to say something to somebody. So it wasn't like people were writing in for advice on how to phrase something delicately. It was like, should I say it at all? Should I tell my friend I got the promotion that she wanted? Should I tell my husband about my ex? It was all these kinds of, These were the questions that people really wanted advice on was like, should I say something at all? And then the other piece is that I am an experimental social psychologist. And so whenever I read advice columns, I immediately go to like, okay, what does the research say about this? And so I wanted to kind of unpack the most common questions people seem to have and look at whether we could use any sort of insights from the research to see if there's like broad takeaways to help us answer them.

Wow. Your role sounds amazing. Just experimental social psychologist. I'm like, that is so cool. And yeah, I find this fascinating too. Again, so glad we're getting into this. And when I was reading your book, Should I Say Something? One of the things that came up is a recent conversation I had with my friends, and we were all talking about what to share if you have problems in a relationship without making everyone else think you are only complaining. And this is like, it's like you wanna talk with your friends about the struggles, because it's just like in your book, you talk about this too, like it feels good to share sometimes and disclose things, but then if you're only sharing negative things, there are some consequences to that. What do you think about this?

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, there's, there's some interesting work on like co-rumination that I think is applicable where you say something that is bothering you. And, you know, your friends validate you because they're good friends and they tell you about all the things that they see that confirm what you're saying. And then maybe they talk about, you know, all the things that have happened to them that confirm this interpretation. And you wind up going over and over again in a loop where you're kind of just confirming the initial annoyance or impression. And, you know, it can make you feel really close to your friends, Because good friends are validating you and you're sharing this experience. And so when researchers have looked at this, sharing this stuff with friends increases that bond. So it's nice, but it doesn't always help you solve your problem. And so what they've also shown is that co-rumination can actually make the problem feel bigger. And you're like, oh my gosh, that does really feel like a problem now. And so What the research on this, and there's a researcher, Ethan Kross, who wrote the book Chatter. He talks about this idea of having a network of people that you share these things with and workshop these problems that you have in relationships and other things. So for your friends, you go for that kind of validation and they kind of zoom in on all the ways in which you're totally right and we're on your side. And then you also want to have some people who are a little more distant, who will help you zoom out and see yourself as an actor in that relationship. And so lots of times when we are sharing with our friends, we're just back in our own head telling from our own perspective. You want someone who will say, okay, now imagine you out here and your partner out here. Now you're picturing the two of you talking. Now how would you— Sort of evaluate the situation. What would you do in this situation and zoom out?

That is such a helpful way to think about it. And I think a lot of listeners probably relate to like, oh, I go to my friends for all my dating problems and then the problems feel bigger or more dramatic. Or like they, even though it feels good to disclose and maybe it builds, it creates more closeness with the friend, it doesn't actually help the situation from a perspective. Um, another thing that you were saying about having a network, I think it's also hard to be that person for your friends sometimes of like, Okay, I hear you. I don't wanna fall into devil's advocate. I don't want to minimize what you're going through, but at the same time, like, as someone who is a dating coach, I have to really be careful about this with my, when my friends are just venting. I'm like, okay, I'm not in coach mode, I'm in friend mode. But sometimes I do wanna poke and be like, okay, but what, what do you think about this from like a, that outside perspective? Yeah.

Yeah, and I love that because it's a form of giving feedback, like honest feedback, which is something we really struggle with. And one of the things that I've found is that it's easier to give feedback and easier to receive it if you're imagining a place where this person succeeds in the future. And so with a relationship, it could be like, okay, I'm going to give you this feedback because I imagine you guys being resolving this problem in the future, here's the way I could see you getting there. As opposed to this, yeah, that's an annoying behavior, you should address that. It's like, what would it look like if that behavior was addressed? What is this imagined future interaction going to be like? And how can we get you there? And so I think that way you're still validating the person, but you have this positive— future-oriented lens on it.

I love this. It's like, I can give you feedback and I can also illustrate this picture of success, of like what that could look like in one version of this. And then that feels a lot better to the person who's receiving it. That makes a lot of sense.

And you as like a coach, I feel like that's what coach means. It's like getting you somewhere positive. And so thinking of yourself and a coach in that way might help.

I mean, it's a lot easier with my clients because of that separation, right? That I am part of that network for people to come to work with me, Whereas like, I care about you, but I'm not your friend. You know, I'm gonna be kind and, and respectful and all the things, but I'm not like your friend that I have to, I'm not gonna like get drinks with you and stuff, you know? So it's, it's just different.

Yeah. That is also this kind of, this network kind of idea is that we think that we're, when we're gonna talk about intimate things, that we should only do that with like really close friends. But we often have these better, uh, more actually instrumentally useful conversations if we're willing to open up with people who are a little more distant.

You're reminding me of that moment in like every movie where, uh, and like between the second and third act where like the charac— the protagonist will talk to like the weird uncle or like the teacher they've hardly seen, you know? And it's like that becomes the moment that everything snaps into place.

It's so true. Find your like minor character. Yeah.

You're getting them all.

Go talk to them.

Yeah, exactly. Well, okay, you brought up something I wanna get into when it comes to dating, which is disclosure. And one of the hardest questions, question I always get, I'm sure you get it too, is how much do you disclose early on when you're just getting to know someone? How should someone decide when to share something sensitive about their past, family, mental health, relationship history, or any other vulnerable topic?

Yeah, this is, this is a huge one. Of course, this is like I like the big question. And it's practically a whole book, so I'll try to narrow it down to some frameworks for thinking about it. So one thing I think about that when I'm trying to step back and think about when you should share something is when we're trying to decide whether to share something, we're essentially trying to make 3 predictions. We're trying to predict how saying something is going to impact the other person. We're trying to predict how saying something is going to impact how that person sees us, and we're trying to predict whether saying something will meet our goal, and we don't always know what our goal is. And we make mistakes when we try to make each of those predictions that can make it tricky and make us err on the side of not saying anything. So for example, if I share something intimate, it often prompts the other person to reciprocate. So reciprocity is a huge thing in all relationships, but particularly when you're getting to know somebody. And so if I share something, it could prompt that person to share something back. So that's how it could impact the other person or make them feel better. Like, oh wow, they're sharing something. I also have stuff I'm vulnerable about, and maybe this person will like me too if I share.

Mm-hmm.

But then there's also this, like, if I share this vulnerability, will this person see me less positively? Like, will they like me less because I shared this thing? And it turns out that there's some pretty good research on this, that people tend not to like the other person less when they share something vulnerable, that it's actually much more in our heads because it's not, we're not just like communicating content. When we share vulnerable things, we are also, there's kind of this meta signal, some researchers will call it. So there's these researchers, Shireen Chaudhry and Deb Small, who talk about the meta signal in the things we share. So it's like, yes, I'm telling you something where you've just learned a fact about my life, but the fact that I told you is giving you this additional information that I trust you, that I'm an open person, that I'm a trustworthy person. And so we're getting like these 2 signals and one can sort of be more important for developing a close relationship than the other.

That is so interesting. And I'm sure that it sounds really counterintuitive to what I think people expect in an early dating scenario when, especially in 2026, we're basically all just evaluating each other of will this work? Could this person be the person who fits into my life? Do I fit into their life? Are they kind? Like, are there— we're just asking ourselves so many questions and, and checking in on these things throughout the date. Um, and it can be really nerve-wracking for people to share something like they've never been in a relationship before, or, you know, that they have an STI, or they have a lot of student loan debt. I have people come to me with things like, they'll share something like, I have a lot of loan debt, as if that makes them a bad prospective partner. Like they're like, oh, who's going to want me because I have XYZ thing? So can you share a little bit, like some advice for the listener who thinks whatever that is, fill in the blank, how can they go into dates? So how can they reframe sharing that piece of information?

I think a big question, and I would say not all those things are things you're going to share early on, of course, but the big question is, What do you want to accomplish by sharing that? What's your goal? What are you trying to figure out about the other person, about how the other person sees you? If I were to share that I have debt, I might be sort of testing out, is this something like, am I basically testing out whether this person will still like me? if they know I have debt? Or am I sharing it because I can't help myself but share it? It's really on my mind, I'm anxious, and so I'm almost using the other person to make me feel better or regulate my emotions. And so I think if you sort of understand why would I share this in this moment, am I trying to test the waters? Is this just something that's on my mind? You might make a different judgment call about the most appropriate time to share because, you know, like maybe right from the beginning you don't need to, to share this and like test the waters. But if it's getting serious, it's like, I just want you to know, here's something I've been working on.

Oh my gosh, I love this so much. I love the idea of checking in with yourself and it's like, why do I feel the need to share this right now? Where is that coming from? And that can help people answer the question of when do I bring this up? It's like, okay, like you don't need to share about an STI on a first date. You don't have to. Yeah. Um, I know people have done it and like there are different approaches that I've heard to sharing things. Like some people, like I have a friend who has Crohn's disease and she will share it on a first date because it's just such a part of her life and her lifestyle. It affects everything. So she's casual because it's just like, You know, the way I would bring up, I have a dog. It's like, yeah, I like walk my dog 3 times a day, you know? So she's not really worried about if they like her or not. She's just like, this is just a thing about my life, you know? So it's like, whereas an STI, it's not really relevant until, you know, you even wanna have sex with that person. And you probably won't know that on a first date.

Exactly. When it gets to that point where there's some instrumental value to sharing that, that's where it makes sense to share it. And yeah, you know, the Crohn's example is interesting. My daughter has celiac, and so that affects like where she can eat. And so that, you know, if you share that on a first date, that can be very instrumentally valuable. 'Cause it's like, if we're going on another date, don't take me someplace that's just like bread heaven. Right.

Yeah.

Right. Um, and so there is a reason for sharing that. It's not just like, you know, just blurting things out sort of.

Okay. Well, what's the line? Let's go. If you're, there's other more sensitive topics, especially around relationships, like You know, I have a lot of clients who had like a raging narcissistic ex-partner or spouse. And the question comes up, that's what's the line between healthy vulnerability and trauma dumping? And how can you tell you've crossed the line?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think one thing we know from the research is that the line goes deeper into intimacy and more sharing than we think it does. So we tend to think that sort of the safe place to be is with smaller talk and less deep questions. And so we think that we'll make a better impression, for example, if we don't share super intimate details and we don't ask, I mean, it kind of goes both ways, ask too intimate details. But the research actually shows that when we predict how people are going to respond to these intimate disclosures or these intimate questions, they respond better than we think, and they respond better than these like more sort of surface level, superficial kinds of questions where you don't really go deep. And so the questions, the studies that have looked at this, they'll give people, and they sometimes even call this like the way to fall in love with anyone or the fast friends technique.

Oh, we're going to get into that more. Yeah.

Okay.

No, we're, I have more questions on that, but yeah, go on. Yeah.

So they'll, they'll give people sets of questions and one of the sets of questions is these really intimate questions and they We find that people who go back and forth and talk about these intimate questions feel closer and they have a more positive interaction than they anticipate. And what's interesting is, to your question about like, oh, talking about like my narcissistic mother or whatever it might be, a lot of those questions are that intimate. They're like questions like, whose death in your family would affect you the most and why? That's pretty intense. Yeah. When's the last time you cried about something? And so I'd say probably you can go pretty intimate, but then you don't wanna make it essentially a session where the other person becomes your therapist. Right. And so, yeah, the reciprocity I think is important.

Reciprocity, meaning like if I share about my parents' divorce, for example, then that, then I'm also stepping back and let, giving you the floor to also maybe share something. Rocky from your childhood. Is that the idea?

Exactly. So it's like either, you know, you can ask sort of a mirror question. What is your, you know, what was your family like growing up? Um, but something where it's not just like, I keep going on and on with this. I've shared this. Great. Now it's your turn. And reciprocity's the most important thing in a, in a date.

And like, I'm just laughing cuz everyone's been on that date where the person is just going on and on about maybe their ex or like how hard the apps are or like Oh, I had a guy who I had, I think, 2 or 3 dates with him and he would just go on and on about his work problems on and on. I'm like, I'm happy. Like, I'm, I'm okay to like listen to someone's gripes at work, whatever. But it just was like, it took up the entire date and I'm like, I don't care about your coworker Joe. I just don't. Yeah.

And then, so another thing is that another sort of research finding is that people really like to talk about themselves. And so that's great for that person. That probably, that person probably walks away being like, that was Yeah, that was the best date ever. But then if you don't get to talk about your, like, that's true for us too, right? And so if we don't get an opening to talk about ourselves, it's not going to be positive. And people forget that. They forget to ask questions of the other person.

We have, we're going to get into that. One more thing on this though. I want to flip it around because there's also, you talk about this in the book of sharing good news and sharing good things. And I am so lucky that I have so many women in my audience and men too, but women especially who are really successful. They've earned a lot of money, they've done well for themselves, but they also are like, well, how do I talk about this without sounding like I'm bragging or like attracting someone who just wants me for my money? Like they're very aware and struggling to talk about their accomplishments. So what is your advice to the person listening who struggles with that?

Yeah, I, so I'm inclined to say open up about your successes earlier. And part of my reason for that is that there was a time where I learned about this research on social support. And we usually think that social support is how people are, you know, show up for us when things are going badly or we're struggling. But this research by Shelley Gable was like, part of social support is how people show up when good things are happening. And the fact that, you know, you could share good things with other people and they can react enthusiastically and excitedly. That suggests that they're a good friend or a good romantic partner. And if you don't share things and don't test out that form of support, if you have someone, whenever you say the rough things that are going on in your life, they're leaning forward and they're listening and they're being really supportive, but then if you share a success, there's not the same sort of support, that's a really important thing The other thing, so I know a lot of us worry about bragging. This is just a perennial issue, and we often will split the difference by humble bragging, and this is another place where there's actual research on this, that when we try to humble brag, like get the information across that something good happened, but we're downplaying it like it's no big deal, We actually, people actually view us more negatively than if we just straight up brag. And it feels like not, yeah, we feel like, you know, it's like, just, just say it already, you know? And I'll celebrate you hopefully. Um, but don't try to like downplay it and split the difference.

I will say I was really attracted to my husband's cockiness. He was a little bit, and I, I know he wasn't super cocky, but he's like proud of what he does and what he's done in his life. And I found that so attractive. I'm like, yes, because I am too. I think I kind of saw that. reflected of like, yeah, like I'm successful as well. And so I think if you have things in your life that you're proud of, definitely talk about them early on. And to our point earlier, don't take it, don't use the entire date to talk about it, but if it comes up, mention it. I was dating when my cookbook came out and that was a really good kind of test in a way to see how people reacted to that huge success of like my first book. Coming out and it was, it was great. It was really interesting to see their reactions.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And it's, again, it's share and then give them a chance to share. Uh, and that's the big thing. It's like reciprocity.

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Yeah. So there's a lot here actually. There's been a lot of new research on our impression, sort of our impressions of what other people think of us and where they're wrong and how we tend to underestimate how much other people end up liking us. And so there's something called the liking gap, which I have written about before in my previous—

I've not heard of this.

That's, oh, the liking gap is such a, it's like such a great finding to know because it will just make you feel better right away. Um, when we interact with another person, so researchers will like get 2 people together, they interact, they walk away from each other, and then they ask them like, how much did you like that person that you just interacted with? And they'll also ask them, how much do you think that person liked you? And on average, when we walk away from those conversations, We underestimate how much the other person liked us. We're like, oh, I really liked them. That was fun. But I think I came across weird, or, you know, I was talking too much and we overthink everything. And this is a really big, really robust effect that we tend to underestimate how good we come across in just these interactions. So that's the starting point is just people already like you more than you think. And then having that sort of in your pocket, Should make you feel confident enough that you don't have to go in and sort of try to impress people and act like, you know, an interviewee who's gonna talk about, you know, all the reasons why they're a great partner. And the thing that people often, they, you know, they go in thinking like, how am I, what stories am I gonna tell to impress this person? What information can I convey that would make them like me? But the biggest thing that actually makes people like you is to ask them questions And let them talk about themselves. Like we were saying, people love to talk about themselves.

I love this so much, the liking gap. That makes sense because I, well, I know like even for me, I was, as you were talking, I remember like I, I hosted new friends for dinner at my house last week and I came away from being like, oh my gosh, was I too this? Was I too that? I don't know. But like, they of course loved it. They like, they were like, let's do this again. They, they loved it. So I think that's just so normal to feel that way after interactions. But I love the idea that we can just Assume that it went better than we thought.

Yeah. And because we know, like, we're paying attention to all the details, all the little slips, all the things that we said, and we kind of replay that in our minds. But when you think about how you judge other people, you're just that you just have like a warm, happy feeling. It's just so much more general. And you, you just remember, you know, this is like a Maya Angelou quote, but like, you remember how they made you feel, not necessarily what they said. And we just forget that.

Yeah. Unless they were assholes, but yes.

Yes. Yes.

But in dating, we do run into that. But also I was thinking on the question thing, I was just watching Crazy Stupid Love. Have you seen that movie?

Mm-hmm. Yes.

So in that movie, Ryan Gosling is basically playing Hitch to Steve Carell. And one of the, like, to pick up girls, and one of the tips is like, never talk about yourself. And like, we see Ryan Gosling do this very successfully. He's like asking questions to the women he's picking up and then Steve Carell tries it and he comes off like, and it in interview mode and the woman he's talking to is freaked out. So, so great movie, by the way, if you haven't seen it, go watch it. Um, so can we, can we dig into that a little bit? Because obviously we want to ask questions and we're going to get into some of the different kinds of questions that you can ask, but where's the balance? Where, you know, because I think a lot of people, by the way, listening are the Steve Carell in the situation where they're like asking all the questions and the person on their side is not asking any.

Yeah. So question asking is really good, right? It gives people the opportunity to talk about themselves. We'll talk about the specific questions that are best, but again, and I'm gonna sound like a broken record, it is also about reciprocity. So you pause and you let the other person ask you questions, and it really should be a back and forth, uh, for it to, to really be working.

How long should the pause be?

I mean, So this is definitely not a place where I know if there's any data, but I would say if you're trying to assess, does this work? Hopefully a comfortable length, right? A length you feel okay with.

Let's try it now. No, I'm kidding. Okay. That's like, I mean, it's, it sounds easy. It's easier said than done on a date. I think a lot of us wanna fill the space. I was actually at a concert, uh, like 2 weeks ago and there was a couple behind us talking like before the concert and I was eavesdropping. If you're out, by the way, if you see me out in public and you are on a date, I am eavesdropping on you. You

will show up in this podcast.

Yes. And she was asking him a ton of questions and he was like giving these one-word answers, like so dry. And I was just like, oh man, this sucks. Like, I wonder if this is a first date. Uh, it was, it was brutal to listen to.

Yeah. And that's, so it's asking questions without shifting into interviewer mode. Like you don't want to, you don't want it to be like I'm interviewing this person and you don't want it to be like you're treating them As a curiosity. It's like, oh, there's something different about you. Can I ask you more questions about that? Um, and so my husband was telling me this example of this woman that he dated before he dated me, and she said that the reason that she liked him was that he didn't ask her a bunch of questions about her height. And she said everybody asked her about her height because she was 6 feet tall, and everyone was like, do you play volleyball? Do you play basketball? Just like, was it— how was it, you know, growing up as a tall girl? girl, and he just went in and asked her about her thoughts on like the stuff they were doing and her opinions. And she was like, oh wow, he's not, you know, going to the most obvious physical thing that makes me different and just like asking a bunch of questions and treating me like a curiosity.

Okay, so let's talk about questions we should be asking, because you have 6 types. I'm gonna go through them really quick. Um, there's 6 types of questions you talk about in your book are introductory, like how are you? Uh, full switch questions for topic changes, like just kind of changing the subject, right? And then the mirror question, which we all know, the what about you? What about, you know, how, you know, what about you? Like whatever. Like that's the classic, just we see that in all dating app conversations. Rhetorical, like what was I thinking? You know, not meant to be answered by, by the other person. The 5th one is follow-up questions like, well, why do you like that? Or what made your day good if someone said their day was good? And then the last one is partial switch. So it's like tangential. So if like we're talking about TV, I might be like, okay, did you, have you seen Silo? Like kind of just switching in within a topic. Is that right?

That's right. Yeah. Perfect.

Okay. Amazing. So, okay. I love the way you broke these 6 questions down. Which of the 6 do you think we need to be asking more?

The big one, according to research, are follow-up questions. So we don't ask enough follow-up questions, and these are the questions that make someone really feel like you are listening to them, you're being responsive. These are the questions that really kind of build that intimacy and help you get to know somebody. So the other questions are good too. Like we talked about mirror questions, get at this reciprocity piece so that you're not just being interviewed or interviewing, right? Full switch questions are interesting too because we think that they're, they might suggest the opposite of responsiveness. And in some cases I do, like if someone's talking about some topic and then you immediately change the topic, like you're not being very responsive. So first step is getting nice and deep into a conversation, asking lots of follow-up questions. But there's a researcher at Harvard, Alison Wood Brooks, who talks about how the number of topics you cover in a conversation tends to be positively related to how you feel about that conversation. And so actually switching the topic so you don't just have one get too stale can be a really useful thing to do as well.

Interesting. I mean, I think if I have to reflect on my dating experience, I think I topic switch too much. Is that a thing?

I'm sure it is a thing, but I think people tend to get stuck in a loop in one topic more often. Um, so I think you can, you can err on either side, of course, but this idea that like we're just beating this topic to death, it's like, just, it's okay to just throw out another topic.

Right. Okay. That's a really good tip for anyone on dates who are, maybe you're new to dating or you feel a little weird on how to, like, what to ask. It's like, if you feel like you've been talking about something for a while, I love this advice. You can change the subject with a different question. Okay. What advice do you have for the person listening who struggles to get into deeper topics? So I know follow-up questions are key here, but what about like bringing up deeper things? Like, that's something I get asked a lot because It's like, it's easy to say surface level, like siblings, vacations, whatever, but how do we get deeper?

I think my first question would be, why are you struggling to get deeper? Is it that you're worried that something you say is gonna, you know, be misinterpreted or the other person's going to, you know, not like you as much or see it as a negative thing? Or, you know, are Do you have this kind of idea that you need to put yourself out there as a certain type of person to be liked? So I think I would need to know like, what is it that's holding people back from getting deeper? If it's just like kind of this worry, like this concern with vulnerability, we do know that being vulnerable, you know, is the thing that's going to lead to intimacy and closeness. I mean, we talked about the fast friends technique. These are deeper questions and they, you know, That's really where kind of the magic is when you're getting to know someone. Um, so I don't know if it's knowing that there's kind of a positive outcome on the other end that can make someone feel more comfortable opening up and also just questioning like, what is it that's keeping me from opening up? And is that whatever worry that's keeping me from doing it, is that, is it valid? Is it legitimate?

So, okay. What you're getting at though, is Asking deeper questions is also a form of opening up.

Yeah, that's actually, that's a great point. So I can imagine if the issue is like, or the sort of the thing that someone's trying to work on is to express more of their own intimate background or thoughts, that's one thing. And maybe one way to get there would be to listen more to the other person and ask questions of the other person and get into more intimate that way. And that can kind of create this Reciprocity. Once you see that they're opening up, like, you may be more willing to open up.

Where I think people get stuck from, like, what I just— in my DMs, it's like, like, what questions should I be asking? But I really do think, based on your research and what you— and, and your book, it really is all about those follow-ups. Like, you don't need a list of questions to ask, even though we know it could be helpful. But like, sometimes you can just get there if you're just like, keep going deeper and deeper with the follow-ups?

Yeah, hopefully the questions are coming from listening to the other person. It's not like you have to generate it and like you said, have like a list in the back of your mind. You're listening and if they say something and you don't know, you know, who the person they're referring to, oh, who's that? Is that a friend? How do you know them? How long have you known them? You know, um, or, uh, a place that they're, they refer to, oh, where is that? And you know, you can get on these kind of You can broaden what it is you're talking about just by following them down these, these threads. Maybe you learn that they lived in someplace that hadn't come up because you asked about a place, for example.

Totally, totally. What would you say to the person who's like, how do I, can I ask someone to ask me more questions?

Ooh, that's a great question. I think you can do it, but I, I feel like you could I'm inclined to make it like a game and even say like, I heard about these questions that, you know, help you get to know someone really well. Do you wanna play? And you each take turns like asking questions or, you know, uh, like let's both ask each other a question about this. Something that's like, it makes it a team thing because I think if you ask the other person to ask you more questions, it It can make them feel defensive. Like, it's like you're doing something wrong as opposed to like, let's make this a game together. Let's be a team. And then hopefully they realize that, oh wow, that's really fun when we ask questions.

Totally. I think it's just, it's a huge frustration right now. And I think it's one of the things that's contributing to how starved we are for connection these days because we're like losing the art or the will or the Capacity to ask questions. Like, this is such a simple thing that we need to be doing more. And I love all the advice you're sharing. On the note of feedback, like in terms of like, 'cause I think asking someone, asking more questions is a kind of feedback. You talk about this in your book too. Do you think it's helpful to give feedback after a date?

It depends on, again, the goal of giving the feedback.

Okay.

Is the goal, like, is this someone who you want to see again, but you know if they don't do certain things, it's not gonna work? Um, and then again, let's just—

Okay, sorry. Let's assume, let's assume they, they don't want to see them again. Like,

mm-hmm,

I, let's just say like we went on out and I'm like, hey Vanessa, like, you know, great to get to know you, but this just isn't a fit for me. Some people are inclined to say why. Without, like, unsolicited, just say why. And some people are like, you know, obviously they're like, or sometimes they get asked, like, if I'm rejecting someone, it's like, oh, can you tell me why? So where is the, what is, do you think the role of feedback is here?

Yeah. So if you get asked, I think you should provide it. I think that's giving the other person the autonomy. And I actually think if you're not sure and like, if we talk about ways you can kind of consider, and then at the end you're just like, I still don't know. You could ask them, like, do you want me to tell you anything about why, or do you want to just say goodbye? And I mean, it's better if they're the ones asking than if you have to do that, but there is this— it gives the other person the autonomy to decide what they can handle. And presumably they're asking because they're struggling somehow. Like, they think that feedback would be helpful. I don't think they would just be asking because they're masochists. So there's something like, That they, they're getting from that. And I think if we're like trying to decide just on our own whether to give feedback, I think we have to ask like, is this person doing something that the majority of people they meet are, are also going to be annoyed at? Or that is just like blatantly an issue so that in the end it's actually kind to tell them like, this is actually a thing that's happening. And so, you know, in your future dates, You might wanna try this. So if it's that kind of feedback, and again, you can frame it in like this positive way of like, this is gonna help you in future dates. Like, I really, I wish the best for you. Here's a way, you know, I was thinking about like, if you had, next time you have a date, maybe you should try this. Or, you know, something that's again, very positive oriented as opposed to like, you know, I'm break or I'm ending this, or I don't want another date because you didn't ask me any questions. Um, and that, I think that's more poorly received.

Yeah, I think it's so tricky. Like I would say in my experience, from what I've learned, I would not advise people to give feedback after dates, especially unsolicited. And I have, in my experience, if someone asks for feedback and I share it, it's usually because they want to negotiate or because they want to like try to get me back somehow or like convince me to stay. Um, and this is like after a few dates, not like a, a full-blown relationship, obviously that's different. Um, or they blow up and they just get defensive and they're like, well, no, you misinterpreted that. Like whatever it is. So it's really sensitive because the rejection is so hard. But I do think there are some rare cases where it's appropriate. Like some people do ask and you can kind of gauge if they're mature enough to really take it. And I guess I wanna ask you about benevolent honesty, cuz you talk about this in your book. So if I was a mature person, like, okay, Vanessa, like I get it. You don't wanna date me again. Yeah. Um, can I just ask you why? What would the benevolent answer, benevolently honest answer be to that?

Yeah, I think that's kind of where I was trying to go because if, if there's like a really clear answer and like you have the reason, it's something that the person can change, right? Like if they can't change it, there's no reason to say it, but if it's something that is like pretty clear that this person could change this in their next date. You know, I mean,

what if it's bad breath?

Oh, um, I mean, honestly, so here's the thing. This is, this is one of the questions I say to ask yourself is like, would you wanna know? Because I would wanna know. Uh, I don't know. Like, this is one of those tricky things too, where it's like, that is so easy to correct that I think some, there's like, So when we communicate these things, right, there's these two, there's like the thing we're telling them, the content, you have bad breath. Maybe it's good for them to know that, and that's something they can fix in the future and will help them in the future, right? And something we probably would wanna know. But again, to get to that like additional signal, it also says, I don't wanna date you because of your bad breath. Like it's, there's this insinuation. And so that part can make you feel like a real jerk. So it's considering both these things. There's like the content that they probably would want to know, but then there's is like what it insinuates about you. And so I think ideally, you know, in a case like that, it wouldn't be tied to the actual breakup or, you know, the rejection.

Okay.

Yeah,

I got it. So maybe sharing the bad breath thing in the anti-ghosting text is not ideal.

Yeah. No, I think that, and I, I also wouldn't want, I don't know if that's benevolently honest because I feel like I, if someone said that to me. Like, I do want to know, but I don't want to tie that forever to like why I'm not getting dates or something, because then it's like, wow, that's, that's okay. But you would want to tell them at some point, ideally, like if you're a big enough person, you would tell them on the date in like a nice way.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is, listeners, if you want to give feedback, just be really careful about the timing, handle with care. You don't want to make this person never date again because of the way you delivered the benevolent, honest feedback. Yeah. Yeah.

Like think about what this person's actually gonna do with that feedback. Like imagine you got that feedback.

Mm-hmm.

And in what context and yeah, you know, what you would, what you would do with it.

Before we get into our dating dilemma, are there any final things you wanna share with people who just really want to make an amazing first impression on dates and have deeper connections?

I would definitely say just focus less on trying to demonstrate how great you are and try to get to know the other person. Ask questions, be in the moment, and see like how the actual interaction takes place and how they make you feel and what you learn about them. And, you know, naturally that should allow you to open up a little bit, but when you go into it and you're like, you know, I'm gonna show how cool I am because I know I'm gonna talk about like the bands I like and I'm gonna talk about like this great experience I had that's gonna make me sound really worldly. You know, all those things are, even though they're great and, you know, they'll come up at some point, the thing that's really even beyond all those things, the thing that's gonna make someone end up liking you and will be better for you in the end is to ask them more questions.

Love it. And we're all gonna do that. All right, let's take a quick break here and then we'll get into our dilemma.

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All right, Vanessa, are you ready for this week's dating dilemma? I

don't know, honestly.

I mean, I know, okay, look, I'm excited for your take on this one. I know you're not a dating expert, but I think your expertise does relate to this one. And by the way, if you're listening and you want anyone want to submit yours, you can do that in the show notes. There's a link. We do it on every episode. Here we go. I, 35 female, have been on 4 dates with a 39-year-old male who I met on Hinge. On our last date, we talked about previous relationships. We're both divorced, and he shared his ex-wife cheated on him. I multi-date 2 guys, 2 to 3 guys at a time, and firmly believe that if you meet someone on a dating app and you haven't defined the relationship or discussed exclusivity, then there's no expectation that you won't be seeing other people. However, I know that some people only date one person at a time and can be surprised find that the person they're seeing is also dating other people. And this happened to me recently, and it was a contributing factor to that connection ending. I might be interested in exclusivity with this guy in the near future, but to avoid, one, surprising him down the road with the fact that we have not been exclusive, if his expectations are different, and two, prematurely pushing us into exclusivity. Given his history, does it make sense for me to proactively share that I'm, that I'm multi-dating to make sure that our expectations are aligned? How should I bring this up and frame the conversation? Okay. So just to recap, this person is 4 dates in. She's multi-dating. She doesn't know. I don't think she says if he is or not. We don't know if he is.

I think that's the first thing to know, right? Is that, you know, this really follows nicely from our earlier conversation. The first thing I would do is ask him what his expectations are. Because I, from this, I can't tell if he, if he may, you know, have had this bad experience, but an ex-wife is a different context than someone you've been on 4 dates with. And so kind of clarifying like, what are you looking for out of this relationship? Um, how do you date? Do you date one person at a, at a time? You know, asking those kinds of questions might be helpful.

I love that. And I think she is making a lot of assumptions here. Mm-hmm. Like maybe if she were cheated on, she feels that she would have mixed feelings on, uh, multi-dating, but he might not.

That's right. It's a different, because it's possible that like at that time he had one set of expectations and they were broken, but now he has a different set of expectations. And yeah, she just hasn't clarified it.

Yeah. So you're saying the best thing to do here is bring up the, what is your approach to dating conversation first?

I think so. I think I would do that before I came out and said I'm dating multiple people because it changes how you would even tell the person that because you're gonna say it differently depending on what their expectations were to begin with.

Yeah, I think it's, I think this, this one's interesting cuz my general advice is that you don't talk about this in early dating because Mm-hmm. It doesn't make anyone feel good in the conversation if we are talking about our other dating activities. Like,

mm-hmm,

it just doesn't really lead to a positive place in the conversation if I'm like, oh yeah, I'm seeing other people. Oh yeah, me too. Where do you go from there? You know, now,

yeah,

to me that's like a friend zone conversation. I'm talking about other dates with you because I don't see you as a prospect anymore.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, this does, it makes me think of another aspect of questions is that we think of questions as like super neutral because they're not statements.

Mm-hmm.

But if you're asking that, you are also saying something, right? Like there is a statement embedded in that question of like, what's your approach? And the statement is like, I have an approach that maybe we haven't talked about. Um, yeah.

I mean, I think it's interesting cuz like there's a version of this where she could not say anything, continue to multi-date and decide to commit to this person after getting to know him. And then it's revealed later that she was multi-dating. There are some people who have an issue with this and ha— and are, and struggle to get over that. But it's, I think it's like a, it's like kind of a risk you have to take.

If the expectations are not laid out clearly, I just, I can't imagine anyone really being upset about that. I mean, I can understand that they are, but like, yeah.

Upset enough to end it or like hold it over them. Yeah. I don't know. I think, okay, my advice to this person, like my final advice would be Uh, don't, don't bring it up at, at this point. I think it's only something to bring up when you are ready to actually be exclusive with someone.

That's fair.

Yeah. Yeah. But I also, I really wanted to hear your takes. I think you're, again, this is the, you know, should I say something? Should I ask? You know, this is exactly that. Yeah.

And I definitely, I think that I wouldn't. come out and say that she was dating multiple people unless I knew more. But I, and I do think that like the question, the question is the direction I would go if I was going to say something with the understanding that it's not just a question. Like you're going to wind up having that conversation. It might be awkward. And then I might just ask myself like, what is the goal here? It sounds like just from her question that her goal is not to hurt somebody. And that's a really kind goal. And in that case, you know, may, if that's your main goal and that's more important to you than how this person sees you right now, or, you know, maintaining the relationship, then maybe it is worth clarifying expectations cuz that is the way you're gonna find out if, if you might potentially hurt this person.

That's true. That's true. Okay. So listener, I mean, I agree with that. Listen, also listen to what Vanessa's saying and think about what you're trying to accomplish by bringing it up, which is again, aligns with your advice from earlier, which I love. Yeah. Well, Vanessa, this has been an amazing, fascinating conversation. I loved everything you had to share. Where can my listeners get more of you?

Yeah, so I have this new book, Should I Say Something? That's coming out. And I also am on Instagram and all sorts of socials under @profbohns, and I have a website, vanessabohns.com.

Amazing. We'll link that in the show notes, and thanks again.

Thank you. This has been great.

So what do you think? What are your takeaways? I would love to hear them. You can drop a comment on Spotify or YouTube or shoot me a DM on Instagram @dating.intentionally. So for me, I loved this conversation with Vanessa. I love how she talked about that people probably like you more than you think they do. And it just goes to show that You are probably parsing through the conversation and analyzing yourself more than they are. Like, you are always more focused on what you're doing than the other person. I think the liking gap is such a useful thing to remember after a date because we just tend to obsess over every awkward moment while the other person might be taking away a much more general impression of how it felt to be around you. And the other tip that she shared that I love is that before you share something vulnerable, ask yourself why you want to share it. Are you trying to build intimacy? Are you giving them information that's actually relevant in this moment? Are you trying to test whether they'll still like you, get reassurance? Knowing your goal can help you decide whether if now is the right time. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for trusting me. Don't forget, you're doing great. And if you know someone who overanalyzes everything they say on dates, send them this episode. And if my show has helped you, a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify or a follow on YouTube goes a long way. Once again, I'm Talia. This is Dating Intentionally, and I'll catch you next time.