How to Sell Software as a Service | Vince Reed, Bedros Keuilian, Ryan Stewman and Allison Maslan

You know, you're looking for that seven figure business, but it's not like they're all running around jumping, you know, waving their hand. There's not that many of them. Right. So is there any way that you could create and utilize the software as almost like a farming system to get them to the seven figure mark where they become your ideal client? The best for last. That goes. Alison.

It must be awesome.

So, so what do you got going on? How can we, how can we help you?

Yeah, so.

I have run a mastermind for 13 years called Pinnacle Global Network. We have 20 mentors that work with our clients and we have a method called the Scale it method. And it's really the only comprehensive method that's focused on the entire company. So like EOS is operations or you might have some that focus on sales or marketing, but it literally is all phases. We have five phases that the business owner goes through all the way to the exit of their company. And the idea is increasing the valuation of the company, building a team managed company so it can run without them and shift their company, even if they've been in business 10, 20 years, into a scalable model out of 15 different models. And so, so that's been really growing and it's really exciting. Even 13 years. I feel like we're just at our precipice here. But we are developing now a software called Scale it and it is based on our method and it's the method that all of our mentors use with our clients. And all of our mentors have run very successful companies as well. And so we are building this software and we're gamifying it. And the idea is that when you, where whatever level you come in is, the goal is to get to phase five, which we call the visionary. And there are all these pillars and you have to shore up your pillars on each area of your business to get to the next level. And it's a process, you know, could take, you know, few years. It's not something that happens overnight. Obviously there's a lot of moving parts to a company. And so we're developing two versions of this. One is to the direct business owner so you could use it for your company and to work on all the levels and all of the tools and everything needed to scale your company. And then we're also building one for the consultant company, the coaching company, the mentoring company that they would use for their clients, because this is the version we've actually created for our own company that we're using with our clients. And so, and then I also have a book coming out the end of this year called the Scale It Method that's. That goes along with the software and it goes with my book that came out in 2018 called scale or Fail. And so what I'm trying to decide is the model that we're going to do with this. Is this going to be.

You know, where we license it, where we. We certify other consultants that are using it with their clients and then we license it, you know, and, you know, and then do I do one version that is just direct to the business owner so they can use it. But if someone's actually going to use our method with their clients, I want to make sure that we're protected. And, you know, also even had an idea going into the bigger corporations because it's something that they can use also with their executive teams. So we're just in the building phase right now. This software, and I know, Vince, you build a software, it's a lot of work. But the plan is rolling this out in 2023.

Got it. So what would be the specific question? Just how would you market it?

Yeah, it's the model. I think it's the model that I'm trying to figure out right now. What is the direction that we want to go with this?

Got it.

So, so I. I own a software company that I have bootstrapped to multiple millions of dollars a year with no investors, no banks or anything. I built the shit in my spare time with $25,000 and that thing does right now about $180,000 a month recurring revenue. Right. And growing every month because we keep adding customers and they don't leave. And so.

The way that we've got there and done that is it's kind of weird because I own a company called Phone Site. So it started off was just like, we just made really simple landing pages and like click funnels was. I like click funnels, but it was very. You had to have like an engineering degree or WordPress or any of those sites. Like, we, us smart people here. Maybe not Vince, but like us, we, like, you know, well, Vince is smarter than us. Like we, we outsource the websites and shit.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's because that stuff's too smart for us. Right. Vince can probably actually build them. So I needed something that like a real estate agent or a plumber or an electrician could crank out a website with. Anyway, I tell you that because it started just like what you're talking about. I had a need for my community, my community is not tech geeks like the click funnels community. My community is real business owners, like plumbers, electricians, gym owners, you know, CPAs, like lawyers, like you know, regular business owners. And so they don't have time to go learn coding and maybe they don't know anybody who could. But it started that way. But we kept adding more and more stuff to it. Right. To try to like, you know, not make it more complicated, but to solve more problems. Because a lot of people in the software world, they're looking for like one login for everything.

Yeah.

You know, and so the less you can add to their tech stack and the more you can take away from their tech stack in order to go through your stuff, the better. But the big thing for us though is in this, I say this because this may work for your model as well. But like it was hard to convince a business owner that they could code a website. It wasn't, it's not that they don't need a website. It was hard to convince them that they could do it themselves. Right. So what we did instead was we partnered up with this company that sells business cards and they're like these NPC business cards that you, or NFT or whatever the hell they are that you swipe them in front of a phone and, and somebody's contact information comes up and it pulls their, their contact out. And we sell like 10 or 20,000 of these cards a day for like just a couple bucks a piece. We don't make any money off of them. But they're all tied to our software which makes people, you know, have to opt in and try do our free trial and then they want, we offer them a free like link, tree looking link. But once you actually buy the software, you get all these unlocked features. Now I say that because that might be something that works for you to spread the word is like you send those cards out, I can give you our contact form. But everybody, you know, they share them with their people and when they share those cards, it helps the community grow and the people get in there because you really, you probably adding software to your mastermind company because I have both companies as well so that you can get a bigger multiple when you go to exit. Right. And so the key with software is keeping people as sticky as possible. Right. We know in our business if we can keep them after three months, they hardly ever leave. Right. At that point they're so used to paying it, they never go. So but, but trying to get them psych for us, we Couldn't convince them they could code a website. But we like, hey, you can scan a business card and put your name onto a website. Then they realize they had that realization that, oh, shit, this was easy. So maybe something like that would work for you as well. That's, like, easy to spread the word and get people plugged in.

That is brilliant. I love that idea. I would definitely love information on that. And it also made me think, just even partnering, because I talk about joint ventures all the time, but that it is kind of a tag on to something else related to something that they need. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

Well, Allison, I would have to defer to Ryan because I know nothing about software other than my company's use software that we are consumers of. But if I were to start a software company, I might actually go, who's got something like it and what are they doing? The first thing that comes to my mind, because you do mentor people and you do have, I guess, mentors who have customers. And this is just me transferring my licensing franchising model over. Right. But yes, you can franchise it or license it. Think eos. Like, we use EOS here in my building for all the different companies that we own, we have one EOS implementer, Brian Underhill. I believe he was born to run eos. I think Geno Wickman would be in a great position to clone a million Brian Underhills. He literally removes bottlenecks out of all six of our companies. And I don't take equity like I took equity in this company right here, Feeble Hunt. And now when I take equity in the company, part of the agreement is that they'll do EOS with Brian Underhill because he just breaks bottlenecks and creates opportunities. That's how fanatical I am. But EOS is a franchise model, obviously. My brand, Fit Body Bootcamp, is a franchise model. We know that there's other licensing models. And so since you already mentor other. Seems like business mentors. Is that right?

Well, yes, that work for us. That work with our clients. I mean, we have a similar. Our avatar is similar probably to yours, Ryan. They're anything from bridal chains to pet stores to engineers, staffing companies, things like that. Those are our ideal clients.

Are you familiar with what Brian Brandon Bouchard does, how he certifies people in his system?

A little bad. I'm friends with Randy Garn. I know that he.

So Randy can turn you on to that, But Brandon basically certifies coaches, and those coaches go out and run A business. And so if you certified coaches and part of that was a license for the software, the platform, now you can charge several thousand. Like, you know, our. We charge $1,800 a month per franchisee, part of the royalties. And to license out the software to run the business. The only difference is the software. We just take this guy software and remarket it to our franchisees. But that's kind of what I would do is I would go, all right, can I create some kind of a licensing program where then they can go and get the customers with it, pay me some kind of a licensing fee, franchise fee. Outside of that, I don't know anything about software to give you any more insight, to be honest with you.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I do think that's probably the direction we'll end up going is that I'm not sure if it's licensing or if it's franchising. Franchising is. I could see in your business with the fitness business, because you have. Right. It's like a business in a box in a sense. But you have like a retail location. Correct. So I'm not sure if franchising would work with something like this. Maybe more certification, license.

Yeah, believe it or not, franchising would work. EOS is a franchise model and they don't have a brick and mortar. They just have EOS coaches that are kind of given a region or territory.

Right, right.

So you certainly wouldn't need. In fact, it would take out an obstacle. When we're selling a franchise, we have to remind our franchisees that you have to sign a lease, a storefront, build it out, sign a five to seven year lease in addition to our seven year franchise agreement with us. So that creates a barrier to entry. So I always tell myself, gosh, and if I ever create another franchise, it'll be something where my franchisees would just go and work off an app and they could work from home. And that removes a barrier to entry.

Yeah. You know, our director of mentoring had, you know, 40 franchised her children's gym company to 40 locations. So I should tap into her brain on that. And I do think with the franchise, you have more protection than the license alone, which that's important.

Yeah, you have the protection. You can create a non compete, whereas the licensee can leave. Because Fit Body Bootcamp started off as a licensing program, the first three years in 2012, we franchised. And then hockey. Hockey stick. And now we're just between us here, we're actually in acquisition talks with two private equities But I share that with you because also your valuation goes up when you're a franchise, because they understand a franchise system has a lot more regulation in place that will support the franchisor, which would be you. So if you decide to go down that path, I'd be more than happy to help you, support you and turn you on to the right franchise attorney and whatever else you need, because it is a steep learning curve, but not an impossible one.

Oh, that's great. I will take you up on that.

Sure.

Thank you.

All right, cool. Well, that's so much stuff. I'm taking this in too, because as you said, I mean, you just mentioned I'm doing software, so that's all great stuff I could use. So thank you for that. So I have a couple things. I do have a really high level of insight on Alison's business. We worked together for a lot of years, so I know that her target is a business that's generating at least seven figures. She'll work with the 500,000 business. But there's, you know, the seven figure business, which, by the way, it's a bottleneck in terms of advertising. So we always have these battles. I'm like, Alison, you're looking for that seven figure business, but it's not like they're all running around jumping, you know, waving their hand. There's not that many of them. Right. So with that being said, what I think that the software could be is kind of like a farming system. Like if you think of space sports, I always kind of relate things to sports. So like in baseball, there's a farming system. There's like single a, double A. So is there any way that you could create and utilize the software as almost like a farming system to get them to the seven figure mark where they become your ideal client, like where you're hands off. So let's say we make it where it's like, it's gamified. You have some of your mentors that they're focused 100% on the software and you're targeting now businesses that are making six figures and they have to go through the software to get them to the $500,000 mark so they can actually work with you. Because we've had a lot of people that, you know, literally are begging Alison to work and she's like, sorry, we don't take you. So maybe instead of thinking of it as like, for your clients, this is something where now we can actually have something to target these businesses that would love to work with you and we can Devise it for that six figure business with the goal of getting them the 500,000 or 700,000 figures where they now become your ideal client versus just kind of cutting out all these other businesses that would love to work with you. So number one I think the farming system idea and then also I think, I believe, I can't remember who mentioned it but I think if you don't like that route, another route if possible could be used to teach or certify additional mentors or coaches to be able to teach scale it. So maybe the software could be gamified where it could be anyone who wants to be able to teach my method and earn money from it, you go through the software so now you have a product that could, you could target any person off the street that doesn't even have a business and you certify them to understand and master. And I don't know if the software does this, this is just a random thought but gets them up to speed to understand how to actually teach scale it. And I don't know, maybe they could get a job with you or go out there and start their own business and be certified to actually teach the scale it method. So that's my two bits of advice. I don't know how that fits but.

Yeah, no, those are great. Especially the one, the first one as far as helping to grow them to get to the level to work with us would be a lead in and so forth. So yeah, maybe not so much startups because they don't really have, you know, it's a lot about building a team but you know, maybe that 100, 250, 250,000 mark.

Right. Because they're right there. They're only a few tweaks away. Most of those companies, like if they were on here you'd probably tell them one thing and they'd be at from 250 to 500,000 next month and boom, now you've got your client. So I think that just understanding your business model, I think the business itself, the model needs something that can gather that like 250,000 to $500,000 business get them ready for the next step. Cool. Has this been valuable by the way guys?

Oh my God, I really appreciate it.

Awesome. Alright, cool. Well I got my question is gonna be very, very quick. So as Alison mentioned, you know we did just release software and I went all in. I stopped accepting agency clients, you know, I went all in on the software. It's been our number one focus and you know it's been working amazing and it's almost like been difficult for me to talk about it because I find my conversations always like going to the software, but I'm forcing myself. But I have to explain it because the way that it works, it's not like it's difficult to understand, but it's a new way of thinking about. It's just your typical funnel in terms of the way that I'm using it. So my question is, when you're trying to do something where you're changing the market, right? Where you're doing something that's not necessarily different, but it is different, if that makes sense. To get people like that are conditioned from the standard, let's just say three step funnel, right? You got your lead magnet, your registration page that leads to a webinar or VSL and then to the order page or the application page. Everybody's using that exact same funnel. Clicks are going up. We all know that our system essentially allows you to do everything from one video. So capture the lead, sell the product, product from one video. And all the videos are DRM protected, which is stands for digital rights management. It's the same technology of like a Netflix or Hulu, which eliminates people from being able to download or steal your content. So think of Vimeo or Wistia with, with protection where your videos can't be ripped. But now you have the ability to build almost like an opt in form within the video and then also sell your product right from the video so no one has to scroll or go to another page. So that's what the company does. And our numbers have been so ridiculously crazy because we can drive 100% of our traffic right to the video and capture the lead, but not lose the 80. What I'm calling the 80% tax, which is the 80% 65 to 80% tax. People that hit your landing page, no matter how good you are, they're not opting in. My funnel is. They go right to the presentation. I get them hooked for the first three minutes, then I can lock the video they have to subscribe to, continue watching. So it's the same funnel, it does the exact same thing your funnel does. Except my funnel gets 100% of the traffic, right? Everybody gets it, but they have a hard time pulling the trigger. And like, I guess it's a situation just going to take time for people to understand it. But from just hearing this, how would you approach that message? Right? Like the message that I've been approaching and I'm thinking in my head it works, but it may not to Most people, because most people don't really pay taxes, or a lot of them is stop paying the 80% tax on your funnel. Stop losing 65 to 80% of your traffic. Right. So I'm trying to like correlate that message. Am I right there? And doing that? And how could I get the point across of what we've done, which is taking a typical funnel, you no longer do you have to worry about an opt in page, focus on your presentation, put the video up there, sell the, do your normal presentation, lock it, still capture the lead, integrate to everything. And then right after they opt in, literally you could sell the product. Product. So I could be selling this notepad and just hey. And the form will pop up right within the video. You can buy everything. So this is like nothing crazy, but very simple and different. So it's a long winded question, but I'm having a tough time like, or I don't know if it's just my way of explaining it makes sense to me. How could I make that make sense to everyone that's using the old just regular funnel?

Can I, can I ask a clarifying question?

Sure.

The clarifying question is if the video stops two, three minutes in, basically at the hook, and I'm like, fuck, I want to see more, but I got to opt in to see more. I could still bounce, right?

Absolutely. But now that person that, let's say the other route, right? Who would have never even got to that point because they never would have opted in. So now that person at least got to that point where it stopped and saw. So they clicked and got right to the presentation. So they at least got to that point. So what we're doing is just teaching people to lock it right after they get through the things they're going to teach. So it'd be like, I'm going to teach you this, I'm going to teach you that, I'm going to teach you that. And the one sentence I'm telling everyone to say is this. And all I ask in return is that you provide me with your name and email to continue watching. So what's happening is people are hitting the page and 85% of the people that are going through our funnel are watching the entire video because they're choosing to continue watching. And our math is so nuts. It's like I can't even like sleep at night because the math of it all, if you just understand numbers, is great. But as you can see, I'm all over the place and I don't know how to Channel that message.

Problem. Sorry, I'm still trying to understand.

There is no problem. There's no problem. It's just people see it and they're like this. But there's like no one. They're like to pull the trigger, to make the switch is. It's happening. We just, we literally. This is our like second month. But I wanted to know more specifically, is this messaging, right? Is that, that resonate with you?

I think the messaging is right, but it can't come from you. That's, that's what it is. Like we, we could all beat our, all four of us could sit here and beat our chest about our own products and you know how it is. It's like, what's your own product? Of course, Ryan, you're going to talk about that. You're the best at what you do. And Allison and Vince and myself, however, you know what happens when all of a sudden Joe Rogan mentions your product or someone that is trusted in an industry. Well, you're trying to sell this to marketers, correct?

Exactly, bro.

You give this away to the top 50 marketers. Give it to Alex Hormozi, give it to. Give it, give it to Ryan, give it to Alison, give it to Kern and just say, dude, let me set it up and show you how much it's going to make. You like use it for free and only talk about it after it makes you money and it's yours. And definitely I'm never going to charge you again. Let them talk about it and you'll never have an issue again.

I love that. Awesome.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, for sure. And I was thinking.

You know, tagline like never build a sales page ever again, something like that. And then also getting into communities like I was just thinking, my friend Joe Stumpf who runs a company called By Referral Only, he has thousands and thousands of members. They're all realtors. And one of the services that they offer for them is to build their sales pages. So it's kind of a one and done sort of thing. And if you were to get into communities that offer that in different industries.

Real estate is a big one, that they could try this for 90 days, something like that. And then they were able to switch using the sales page to the video instead.

So you mean the opt in page? You mean like stop using the opt in page. What you mean?

Right, stop using the opt in page and use this video itself. So it's just the one to many strategy getting to that, you know, one that has the big community of thousands of people. And then, you know, this is what they're providing to their, their clients.

Makes sense.

You're not, you're not selling the onesie twosie anymore.

Got it?

Anything from you, big dog? Ryan, what do you think?

Well.

The thing that comes to mind is like, because you're trying to say that it's like a simpler, faster way to do shit and eliminate your opt in page. How can you just base it around a VSL site?

That's it. So you, it's just your vsl.

But what I'm saying is like, you know, the, the average marketer needs an entire funnel and the VSL is part of it. With mine you can get rid of everything else and all you need is the vsl. It is the funnel.

Boom.

Isn't that's what you're asking for is how to simplify the whole thing.

Right, right.

And then they, they're going to ask questions. Well, does it do this? Well, does it do this? Because they're fucking marketers. So that's what does. And you can explain. Yes, but like to take what your big question was, how do I take this big, you know, 10 paragraph thing that we do and make it one thing. It's like, hey, what, what we have is a vsl. The typical marketer has an entire tech stack, opt in page, landing page, sales page, blah blah blah, plus a vsl. We take all that other stuff and your VSL does all that work right there for you on the screen?

Absolutely. And, and can sell the product too. Like.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The video sales letter is the. Is the opt in page. It is the upsell. It is the sales page. It is the. Yeah, exactly. It is the cart. It's everything all in one vsl. It's the ultimate. That's what I would call it. The ultimate vsl.

I like that. Boom.

Cool.

That's all, that's all I got. I got you guys just made me an extra 50 million. I'll make sure to send you your residual checks.

Yeah, well, I like Lamborghinis, man. You know, I, anytime you want to ship one up to give me my office address.

We love getting them here. Got you. Well, I appreciate you guys, man. We're right at the hour we, we hit it and I really appreciate you guys. We're definitely gonna make sure we get this out. And any, any parting words or anything you guys want to share where they can find you. We'll start with you, Ron. Where can people connect with the you?

Well, I was just Gonna say Allison and Bedros, I appreciate it and, and you two. Vince, thanks for putting us together. It was nice to finally, finally meet you and good to see you guys again. And I just appreciate the insight that you gave me. Like I said, I got 11 really good bullet points that'll help me out in the next week. So appreciate you guys. If you're watching this, you want to find me then everywhere. The only accounts that are mine have blue checks on them. The rest of that shit is imposters. You know how the Internet is. But I'm hardcore closer on Instagram and Ryan Suman on Facebook. Those are the best two places.

Awesome.

Great.

Again, I just want to echo what Ryan said. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Got a ton of value from all three of you and it's not often that we get to get poured into. Right. We're usually the ones pouring into others. So I think what you created is a really awesome platform, Vince. I'm grateful for you for that. And where your audience can find me is on Instagram. Edroscoulian.

Awesome.

Yeah, I agree. This is fantastic. And I also think it's great for people to see behind the scenes of some of the challenges that we go through and some of the things that we're trying to figure out as well. So this is such a brilliant idea and wonderful meeting both of you. And Vince, you already know I love you. And if people want to find me, it's just on Instagram as well. Is@alisonmaslin and also my website, pinnacle global network.com.

Awesome. Well, guys, that concludes this Battle Mastermind. Hopefully you got better. Just listening in. And until the next one, I'll see you guys on the Internet later. I hope you enjoyed the show. We're having a lot of fun with the Battle Mastermind and we're to going to keep them coming for you. But you guys do me one favor and let's just hit that, like, button comment and subscribe. And until the next one, I'll see you on the Internet later.