The Pros And Cons Of DFY, DIY & DWY Online Business Models | Vince Reed | E2

Remember when I was telling you when I started running ads and everything, I wasn't making, like, any money? And then when I started making money, I could never, like, break free of, like, real money.

Get over that hump.

Yeah.

You're kind of, like, stuck there.

Yeah, I was like, stuck. It was because I didn't understand the three ways to actually make money. But I was so focused on the thing I was doing to make money, I didn't understand the ways in which I was delivering what I was selling and how I could actually position that to make money. So today, I want to talk to you about it. Whatever you feel like if there's something you don't understand or not making sense, just ask me. I'll break it down for you. But had I known this, like, in the beginning, it would save me so much time and money.

You guys ready to go? Yeah. All right, let's do this. What's up? Vint Reed Here, founder of eboov.com, welcome to more Leads, Faster sales. We got a good show today, because what I'm going to share with you is something I wish I would have learned more when I got started way back in 2008 with digital marketing, and it's essentially money.

Delivery systems. All right, so when it comes to making money online specifically, there's a handful of types of business models that are out there. So you might have agency services, you might have SaaS businesses, you might have online courses, you might have coaching, you might be selling affiliate products. But within all of those different business models, there are three delivery systems in which you have to fully understand and master if you want to make money. So on the show today, myself and co host Mike, which, for example, I didn't really explain a lot of his role on the show in the last episode, but he's there to represent you. His job is to be extremely curious and ask me the questions that you would want to ask me if you were sitting here while doing the show. So, for example, one of the delivery systems that we talk a lot about is diy, and that's do it yourself. So if you buy, for example, an online course, for the most part, you have to go through that course, and you have to deliver upon all of the actions and execute on what you learned. We talk about that. We talk about how to implement those, when to use them, and essentially what types of business models that specific delivery system works best on, which will essentially allow you to make the most money. We talk about dfy, which is done for you. All right, You See a lot of businesses now moving to done for you. For example, agency services where someone comes in and they run all of your ads. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly, when to use these. And again, we go really deep into breaking this down. So, you know, for example, if you have a done for you model, you know, where you could fall short or, for example, why you aren't making as much money as you thought. And then we dive into Dwyer. Okay. Which is done with you. Okay. This is one that's kind of a happy medium. We dig deep into that and we share with you when that particular model works the best and why it often fizzles out. So you're going to get a lot in terms of when we break these down. And again, if you're here for the first time, more leads and faster sales. We try to go on a very, very high level, but go deep into topics more than what you see typically on social media, where you see a lot of information on the surface level. Okay. We want something that's for the individual that's making money online and looking for information to really get them to the next level and different from what you consistently see online. With that being said, if you get value from this, we definitely would love your support. How do you support us? Simply hit that, like, button and subscribe to the channel. Means a lot to us. Enjoy the show. All right, so I got my notes. DFY diy DWI DFY Done for you. DIY do it yourself. DWY done with you. Yeah. All right, so Eboov is more of a. What would you think our company model.

Is more so done with you.

Yeah.

And then.

Yeah, it's done with you, which is basically when do it yourself. And done for you has a baby. Right.

It's kind of like guidance.

Right. Okay. So recently, I would say over the last three to five years, the shift has shifted away from done for you a lot. Why do you think. Why do you think that's happened? What's the argument with done for you?

You think even though done for you is a more attractive offer in terms of the workload, it's very.

It's a lot more.

I would say that people don't view it as something that's scalable.

Right. Because it turns into. Right. A specific client that you have to work with and it's kind of more tailored to them and it's not.

Yeah.

Right.

So the question after you is, do you think that's a myth that it's not scalable for you? Is not Scalable.

I would say.

It'S a myth. If you have the same type of client.

Right.

And you're able to create a specific process that is similar for every single client, but if you have all these different types of clients and all these different types of needs, then it's very hard to scale.

I agree, I agree. But that's the argument. Okay, the argument. What do you think the argument is with done would do it yourself.

Do it yourself.

I wouldn't even say it's an argument, but it's a problem. Like if someone was selling you to do a business, because this is all businesses, they're either selling you, hey, do this type of business and you'll do it for people like an agency service, and that's the model. And then the person arguing against that, well, that's not scalable. Then they'll be like, you should do, you know, do it yourself. Yeah, product. Make it a product. Right. What is the argument that the person that's teaching done for you would say? That happens a lot with do it yourself.

Like, the problem with do it yourself is like they don't have enough support to get the results that they need. So.

Yeah, that's actually. That's definitely another one. What I wrote down here is customer complaints, like customers not getting results.

Right.

Because they have to do it themselves. And you and I both know, you know, we've done tests. You know, there are people that buy a product, never log in. Right. And then say it didn't work. So that's definitely one. So what's it. What do you think is the same scenario with done with you? What's the problem with that? Why does that not last? You see a lot of companies, people that made a lot of money, we're done with you services, and that doesn't work.

I mean, done with you is kind of like the happy medium between it.

What do you think causes those to even fail?

The quality of the process is not there.

I would say it's the founder burnout. We experienced it. So we have a unique sales process and we went in this big, huge circle to try to alleviate a simple problem. I want to. We'll have to go into all kind of detail, but it was a total.

Different direction from what we were.

So what happens is, let's say that you have that you do a weekly webinar, like to your. With your members, like of whatever product, and you're done with your service.

Yeah.

Usually the founder of the creator just gets annoyed with doing those. Those weekly webinars at some Point and then they try to do something else. Either get someone else to do it, try to run automated, and then thing falls apart.

Yeah, right.

Well, it doesn't always fall apart, but they perceive it as they don't want to do it that way anymore. So those are the three things. The reason I always start with that is in order to fix something and make something better, you have to, like, be able to see it from like, both sides. Like, what makes it good, what makes it bad. Because anytime you sell anything, you're doing one of those three things.

And that's true, because I think that was the one thing that kind of helped out. When we went back to the main thing, keeping the main thing, the main thing. We experienced both sides of the process.

Right.

And it wasn't until we did that until we realized, okay, what we have works.

Yeah. I mean, but most importantly, you could be selling products online. Courses, agency services consultant, e. Comm. It's one of those three things that we just said done with you. Do it yourself, you know, or done for you. Like, those are the ways in which you will shape the delivery system of what you're selling.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

When you see ads online, you see people saying, this is the easiest way to make money on this. And, you know, then you'll see another person offering coaching, and this is the easiest way, the fastest way to do this. But at the end of the day, they're doing one of those three things within that thing that they're saying is easy.

Okay, Right.

And if you don't know what you're doing within those three things, the three things being done with you, done, do it yourself and done for you. It's not gonna work. It's not the thing you're selling. It's not. For example, we offer. We offer a software and then all of our members get access to us, like coaching and courses and training built in. We just give it free to the members of the software because that gets them better results.

Yeah, right.

It's kind of a unique way in which we all make. Make an offer for our product.

Sure.

But I could have sold. We could have just took the courses part out of our product and just.

Gave the software and that.

Well, not even just gave the software. Let's just say we didn't have software. Let's say we were just selling the training.

Oh, I see.

It would have been one of those three things that I would add to create a system and been efficient at to make that work.

Okay, I see what you're saying. So you have specific aspect.

So what I want to talk to you about and teach you are the ways, the pros and cons of each one. Okay. And how to be effective no matter what. Because what people, they go, oh, done for you doesn't work because you can't scale it. It's not true. There's $100 million agencies is all done for you.

Yeah.

Right now, same thing would do, you know, done with you and do it yourself. There's businesses that are crushing and scale every one of those three. Right. So what I'm going to do is go through each one, and then we'll go through the pros and cons, and then we'll just kind of play around with it in different scenarios to make sure they work. Cause I'm sure whoever's here watching this and including you, are curious and you might be having a done for you service, and you're like, I need to change do it yourself. That's what the guy in the ad said. And now you're about to change your entire business when you could be missing out on a little element.

Okay, that's fair.

That cool?

Yeah, let's do it.

All right, so let's sew done for you first. Okay. All right. So what do you think the perception of the client is when they're offered a done for you service? Like, so let's say you're gonna do a service for me. What is the perception that the client is giving or hearing or feeling when offered a done for you service?

Like hands like the client.

They're hands off.

They're gonna be hands off.

Right. So what do you think they're thinking?

It's gonna be.

Easy and simple.

I wrote down here. It's gonna be easy. See, we got that brainwave thing going. Exactly.

Right? Yeah.

But the reality of it. Okay, now this is specifically if the done for you service is for a person that has no experience and has never done it, it's kind of like those people that say, I'm gonna show you how to make money. I'm gonna build your E Commerce store. I'm gonna run your ads. I'm gonna do this. Those people have never made money online. We're working a 9 to 5 last week. They have no that. It's like those people are gonna be in trouble. It's gonna be hard for them no matter what results you got. Mm. Because they have no experience with it. That's why done for you can be hard.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Because if you've never done anything like If I let's say I made you a thousand dollars, you might think that's.

Terrible because they don't know what to look for.

They don't know what they're looking for. Yeah. And most likely you're gonna under deliver, especially if they're new. Now, it's a little different if the person's experienced and you offer that service because then you've got to figure out what their expectations are, what they're currently getting. Right. But the reality of done for you is it's actually harder for the client, even though their perception and when they get it is that it's easy.

I see.

Okay. Right. And that's why you see a lot of high, like refunds and stuff on done for you services. Because the, you know, people aren't getting what they expected.

Yeah.

But here's when it works best. It works best done for you when the client's current model is tapped out. So for example, like, you do a lot of our sales calls, right?

Yeah.

If it got to the point where you just couldn't handle it. Right. Like it was just too many people, you're just working too much. Done for you would work well because it would alleviate a massive problem that you're having, meaning you can't take anything more, and that done for you service would hit home.

So what do you. What do you mean?

Like, so let's say that you couldn't do any more calls, right. You couldn't handle any more calls. Mentally, it was just stressing you the hell out. Right. You would benefit the best if there was a done for you service that could alleviate that problem. We're gonna come in and do the calls. We're gonna take your exact system as a service. That's when it would work.

Okay, that makes sense.

So if your model right now is a newbie and you're doing it done for you, and you're having all these problems and refunds. That's why. Because they don't have the expert, there's no real problem. Right. You're just telling them this dream that.

You'Re gonna really hit a point where they have knowing that they have to.

Exactly.

Okay.

All right. So with that being said, what do you do if it is a newbie? So let's say I have the whole, I'm gonna teach you how to make money and build your system or whatever. We're gonna do it for you. All right? So number one, it needs to be a simple system that saves people time.

Meaning most people in this newbie situation, they're doing other stuff, nine to five working. And this is why back in the day when I used to do like business opportunities, that's how I came into this industry. Because I went online, search how to make money on Google, and started finding all these biz ops, right. Those a lot of times would like tell you to recruit friends and family and stuff and you know, you didn't know any better. So you're now telling your friends and family to do it. So for me, to save me time and frustration, you know, I the I was like, hey, let me learn how to generate leads. I don't have to do that. Right, right. So that would be an example of if the service can in a way alleviate that time. The other thing would be if I'm working a 9 to 5 job, right. I'm typically getting paid on the 1st and 15th. My boss is like, do XYZ and on the 1st and 15th you get a check. Right, Right. In business, digital marketing, online marketing or whatever, everybody's teaching something different. You don't get paid consistently. You get paid based off of the work and that you do.

Yeah, right.

So the done for you part typically always has something that you still have to do. Like it's never really like just completely done. It could be you just having to buy the necessary tools to do it. That needs to be created to mimic the 9 to 5 reality that person has. When I was teaching people how to make money, right, What I did was I made all the presentations, right. So I'd make a webinar for my, for people that bought my products and then they would. Then all they had to do is go run the ads to that presentation. And then if someone bought, they would make money.

Okay.

So I would teach them a like 9 to 5 type of schedule. So you come on and here are your keywords that you're going to run your ads to. Every day you're going to add five more keywords and expand your reach. You're going to set up ads here. And I made it feel like they're accustomed to. But where people struggle is they don't. They put a person in an element that they're just not comfortable with. It's like, here's done for you. Sit back, I'm gonna set it all up. And they're sitting back watching the computer, waiting for their first commission.

That's interesting.

And they don't make any money. And they're like, this is a scam. Right. See what I'm saying?

So it's just easy for them to Transition into a similar type of process.

I want to mimic, like, what they're accustomed to. Okay, Right.

Give them, like, structure.

So another example of this would be, like, done for you in terms of making it work is getting a person that's tapped out would be like if, like, let's say you're getting your company now scales to like getting so many calls that that person can't handle. Yeah, right. It'd be like finding additional setters. Yeah, like. Right. For you. So you don't have to do it. Right. So if you're offering a service, a done for you service, let's say that there's people out there already running ads. Right. But maybe they're not retargeting. Well, they don't have good retargeting campaigns going on multiple platforms.

Yeah.

Maybe you're done for your services. Hey, you're running ads. But let us come in and make sure that everybody that clicks on your existing Facebook ads sees you on. On TikTok, sees you on Google, sees you on Google Display network, and your agency just goes through and then expands their reach on other platforms that they weren't. They weren't on.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

So that's a done for you service that could. You could immediately tap into. That would. That would work.

Right. Because it's something that they're already doing. It's just an additional thing to improve it.

Versus let me go run your Facebook ads. Right. You see what I mean?

Okay.

So if I was going to go through a newbie, I would be like, let me just set up a specific type of Facebook structure that we've seen be profitable. A warm, cold, and hot ad for a newbie.

Okay.

Right.

It's like.

Yeah, so like, one process that exactly applies versus let me run your Facebook ads now. That means I got to make their webinars starting from scratch. Right. You have to have in your mind, like, who you're targeting from the beginning. Is it a newbie? Is it an experienced person? Like, for this particular show, we want to speak to people that are making money. Right. People that understand it. Because we're throwing all kind of terms out that might go over the head of someone that's just getting started.

Sure.

Yeah. All right. So that's kind of like understanding the DFY aspect of business. Any questions on that?

That makes sense. That makes sense.

All right, so in terms of di I y do it yourself. What's the client perception of that?

It's gonna be a lot of work.

A lot of work. It's gonna be hard Right. So you. And this is the thing, everybody getting into the course business and what's the message? It's easy. Sell an online course. How is it looking to that customers? They're like, this guy offered the Facebook ads course. This guy offered this consulting. Right. This guy offered this fba, Amazon, whatever course. That's gonna be hard. I gotta go do all of that. Like, I don't know how to make videos. I don't.

They're kind of like turns them off already.

They're already, it's already in their perception is hard. Now the perception of it is hard. But what is the reality?

On whose side? The client or the business?

On the client side. This is kind of a trick question.

Well, it's still hard.

So hard. Yeah, exactly. It's hard because they got to go do it right now. Here's what makes it hard. If expectations aren't met, that's what makes it hard. I think most people realize that they're going to learn something. It's not going to be easy. The problem that people have, and this is the key for people getting started, is that it's the expectation that makes it hard. So if I say I'm going to show you how to set up, set up Facebook ads.

Yeah.

But if I say I'm gonna show you how to build a six figure business with Facebook ads. Different.

It's different.

Where you, you going in like I better make six figures versus I'm gonna show you like the fundamentals, the key to running ads to where you're not overspending. And that's your expectation. What makes it hard is the bad expectation that they get when they buy.

And then that's why, you know, there's cancellations a lot of churn, because if they don't hit that number that they.

Expect to hit, right.

That they see that the course has failed.

Right. They think it doesn't work. And it's the expectation. That's what makes. So the perception is hard in the beginning, but think about how cool it is if the expectation is met.

So are you saying, I mean, you just gotta have to be honest with your expectations. At the end of the day, it's not really setting it low or high or anything.

Setting it for what it is.

Got it? Okay.

Right. So, for example, with us, the expectation is that you use what we have to offer, you're going to unlock 80% more traffic. And if you leverage the training and the calls and everything that we provide and you have the right messaging. Right. It's a simple Math equation. If 100 people see the right messaging with and there's a real problem and you have a solution versus 20 people you know and you don't have the right message. Right. In a solution, which one's going to make you more money?

Exactly.

Right. So we can instantly say come in, fix their messaging, fix the solution and their offer and now unlock that traffic. Right.

Video.

Exactly. One video. So when does DIY do it yourself work the best?

When it's, let's say for example, the customer is already like a business owner. They.

Need a specific problem fixed and they understand how to do majority of it. They just want to know that specific thing and get it.

I would say you're right. But here's when DIY like do it yourself in my opinion works the best. It's when the person buying it has zero experience in that topic. Like they've never done.

Okay.

Like that's who you. When you're. In my opinion, when you're selling a course.

Mm.

That's when it works the best. Let me give an example. Let's say I'm a expert and you're selling an ad course on ads. You know the like level of quality you've got to deliver to make me feel like my purchase was worth it.

Right, Right. That's true.

Like I'd be better off. You'd be better off selling me in that scenario. A done with you product so I can pick your brain and squeeze out the value that I'm expecting.

You're at a different level at that point. Okay.

DIY in my opinion it works the best. A person has zero experience.

Okay.

All right, so let's dive in the DWY done with you. Yeah. All right. So this is, this isn't the same. It's not. I'm going to just tell you, it's not like a hard or easy answer here. Like, but what is the client perspective or perception on a done with you? Like when they're seeing it, what are they feeling done with you?

They're more at ease knowing that they're going to get help.

Perfect. Yep. Safe. It's a safe like offer.

Yeah.

Right. Because I'm going to learn some stuff. I can do it on my own. I got them there to help me. It's a safe type of thing. But what's the reality?

The reality.

They probably don't hop on the calls.

That's more of a reality on them. I guess they're like client, like choice. Well, I'm going at it more is it's risky. Okay. The reality Is risky on the client's perspective side, it's risky because if expectations aren't met, right, then they are in a pickle to look in the mirror. Meaning, like, if I don't do it, was it on me or if it wasn't them? It's like, you know, if it doesn't work, typically they're gonna blame the other person, but it's depending on the person. So, for example, if I came into. You're done with your product program.

Yeah.

Let's say with this, with the level of entrepreneurship that I believe I have.

You'Re gonna like, you're there too.

Yeah.

So it's like you're gonna see, is this guy legit? Is he for real? Or is he just a guy that talks a big game? And I'm. And I'm giving them the same thing. So it's a risky back and forth. That's why it's tough, because it's like you have the training there, but they've got to kind of participate too.

Sure. Yeah.

You see what I'm saying? So the reality of it, if it's a risky scenario because you've got to be on your game because I have access to you, I could pick you, like, right now. You could throw me off. I could be a fraud to everybody watching right now. Okay. Or I can exceed your expectations. Like, I'm glad I got in here. So. So it's just a risky, like, scenario because it's a give and take.

But you just have to be on point. That's all.

You gotta be on point.

Yeah.

All right, so when does it work best?

Works best when you take advantage of not only, like the training, but all the added calls and 100%.

But in simple terms, it's gonna work the best if the client's already successful. Like, if a client's already getting results, not necessarily successful, like making millions, but already, like, operating a business.

Okay.

Because they're not like, it works.

They have no idea.

I'll give you an example. Done with you. In a sense of a person has no business experience, right. And you're trying to teach them a business. I believe that person should have bought a done do it yourself product first off. First got an experience, good or bad, and then came in there with the question they needed.

Okay.

When you get somebody that is not doing anything on that scenario, like, I don't. I don't believe that's the best scenario in a sense.

Like, if they don't have enough experience, you kind of have to go backtrack. A bit. And like, well, they're.

They're messing up the entire group. So, like, I used to do some consulting with Alison Moslin. Right. And one of her things was she was only dealing with businesses that were looking to scale seven figures and beyond. Every now and then there'd be a business that was only making 600,000 and they would. People would want to leave the group because they weren't at the level where they were. It was like the questions they were answered weren't at, you know, 10 million a year. And it was always weird to me. I was like, man, like, these are. They're still successful business. 600 grand was at that. They just weren't there. Right. So that's important. Like with a done with you scenario. Yeah. If everybody's in there are newbies, maybe it would work. But in my opinion, to make that really last, we're talking about there's only three ways to build a business or to deliver the product. Right.

Yeah.

We're talking about how to make which one profitable.

Right.

So if you got a done with you model full of a bunch of newbies.

Yeah.

Like, that's gonna be tough because they don't know what's good or bad. They've got to experience something.

Okay.

It's kind of like.

And I heard, you know, we talked about her Mosey in the last one, but I heard a podcast this morning with him talking about this. Would you rather earn $10 million earning it, growing a business, or would you rather earn it? This is. I'm curious what you're gonna say, winning the lottery.

How much is the lottery?

10 million. Both the same. Would you rather earn the 10 million or win the lottery with 10 million? All right.

I'd rather earn the 10 million because I get that experience and that allows me, even if I lost it next day, I understand how to. How much it takes to make the next 10 million. It's probably easier in that case.

I have the experience 100%. Part of it is like, for example, in the movie the Pursuit of Happiness, at the end of the movie, like, you. You could feel in that movie Will Smith's like. Like his. His happiness.

Yeah.

Because of all of the, like, pain he went through to get there.

Right, right, right.

If you just win 10 million, you don't understand, like, what that took. Right.

There's a lot of stories with, you know, lottery winners. Right. End up spending it on all the worst stuff.

So imagine you're on a done with you scenario and they've never done it. They don't know they didn't get in there and try to figure out what button to click. They didn't run an ad and lose $100 and you're trying to help them.

I see. Okay.

So if you go long term, right. And you're like, why is my business not profitable? We started it off today talking about like, you know, $1,000 product. Even if you make 500, you still breaking even. Why does that happen? It starts with the three different delivery systems and who's in there from the beginning. Right. So if you've got a business and you're using a done with your model, but it's all newbies that don't understand good from bad. Right. That could be why the business isn't thriving.

Because it's not set up in the right structure from the beginning.

Right. So one know specifically who you're trying to target and get understand these things.

So in simple terms, let's just make it simple.

Yeah.

If you're selling a course that in my opinion is best to target people that have no experience. Okay. Right. Yeah. If you want to build a business like a done with you model, target people that have some experience in that that are making some money.

Yeah.

And then if you are going to do a done for you product, make sure it's a very specific product that serves us a very specific purpose. Okay, now let's get into why I wanted to have this talk. Which one's the most profitable? All right, so now knowing all of that, would you say one's more profitable than the other? No, they're not. And this is the part that people go wrong. They're all profitable. People change businesses because they're. What are they doing? They're avoiding pain, seeking pleasure, trying to find the easy route to make more money. When it really comes down to the process going back to what we talked about in episode one. Right. All right, so the one that's the most profitable is the one that's going to execute the best system and the best process. Okay. So it's the traffic process. Right. What's the messaging, what was being said? It's the page process, whichever funnel you're using.

Right.

It's the sales process, how you're selling that product. Right. The delivery mechanism, how you're selling it. You. It's the onboarding process, what happens after they buy. Right. And then it's the back end process. Those are things. And there's a million things in between each and every one of them that separates which one is going to be more profitable than the other.

Right.

Like people that are getting started, they want to hear me or you say it's this one that makes you more money.

Right.

Or if I have a high ticket offer, I'm going to make more money.

And that's very easy to say.

It's not like that.

It's not.

I can take a book funnel that's a free plus shipping and turn that into a multimillion dollar business. I could have a business that has no front end product and sells $30,000 products and make that a multimillion dollar business if I'm implementing the right system in place. It's not any of those things. It's not the funnel you're using. It's literally the process that you choose and how efficient and effective you are in implementing those steps and understanding those five components. I just talked about traffic page process, sales process, onboarding process, back end process, all of those have to be on point.

Makes sense. I mean that cleared it up.

Got it. So which one would you choose now? Like if you had to start a business out of the between the three deliverables. Yeah.

I would still. I would, for me personally, I would stick with a course focused on individuals that are just starting out, like for video production, just based on like where, where I am.

Got it?

Yeah. Okay.

That's cool. And that was the reason I asked you. That is another piece of advice I would give people is like, do what you feel like is best for you, that you can sustain for long periods of time. Don't do what you think is going to make you the most money because again, they all make money. Right. So if that's what you feel, you know.

Yeah.

Do it. Like for me it was important for me to have a product that has a high margin, that has continuity built into it, meaning monthly recurring payments. And I wasn't looking over my shoulder trying to find the next client to make more money. I wanted to be able to devote like all of my energy and attention to my customers and provide a premium service where I could virtually guarantee that they would get results. So that took a lot of thought into like our pricing model, how we structured it. Right. So I had to build that model. That's why I went with more of a DWI SaaS product, which is rare. Right. You know, I wanted to have, I wanted to implement and use the thing that I was offering. Right. So for me, one of the reasons why I never like went all in on just, I mean I sold. I've made a lot of money selling courses. Yep. But I never felt like I was like building a real business, even though it is because people need to learn those things. Because it was kind of like I was just selling information.

Oh, I see.

Right. Like, I wanted a tool that people could actually use, but I also wanted to be like the biggest fan of the tool in terms of actually using it to sell the thing that I'm offering. And that's the. Where I feel like we're like, it's a really good space like to be in because we use it every single day. Every tactic we're talking about, everything we use, we talk about here.

Yeah. And it's something like didn't just want to do something that had just a small percentage of improvement. Right.

Something that is like game changing. Move the needle.

Yeah.

And that's been the hardest thing because. Because people would be like, man, why would you shut down like a profitable ad agency that you had or your course business or whatever, that. Whatever. And it was like, I just wanted to play big.

And you're still dealing with the same problems.

Yeah, still dealing with the same problem. Staying in the lead generation, like sphere.

Right.

But just something that, you know, a bigger. A bigger like, vision. Playing. Playing the big game. Right, Exactly.