#15: How to Start Change Without Leadership Buy-In

Hi, I'm Sy Wakeman, and you're listening to Know Ego, a podcast where we teach you how to ditch the drama, end entitlement, and drive big results in your workplace and your world place. One of my favorite things to do, and we try and do it each week, is to surprise and delight someone who is out there adopting reality-based leadership principles and living them. And my favorite success stories are people that don't worry about whether or not they have the resources. They don't worry about whether this starts from the top. They don't worry about whether their culture is ready for this. They just start living and practicing reality-based leadership. And today I'm going to reach out to Laura, who has single-handedly started a movement, basically a revolution in her company. She did not ask permission, and she needs no forgiveness, but she has adopted these principles, and she is out hosting book clubs and working with her organization to send people as they can into different trainings, but mostly just to coach and lead differently. And she's having huge impact. And it's a great example of how you as an individual can start a movement and that happiness is right next to you. You just got to drop your story and pick it up. This stuff isn't hard, folks, but it does take a lot of courage. And I just am excited to call her and love her up and let her know that we see This is Laura. Hey Laura, how are you?

Awesome, how are you?

Good. This is supposed to be Kelly calling you, but, um, it's actually Cy Wakeman calling you.

Cy Wakeman, I love you!

I love you!

Seriously, how are you?

I'm doing well. I, uh, Kelly was telling me about The amazing work you're doing. And we decided to do— we do a Surprise and Delight where we call rock stars and tell them how much we love them, and we pick their brain for success stories. Are you game?

Oh my gosh, totally! Let's do it!

I love it. So, you know, I'm asked all the time, Cy, you know, like, doesn't this have to start from the top? Don't you need everybody on board? Don't the senior leaders have to endorse this? And I tell people a lot, that you start where you are and that no one argues with results and that you can be accountable on your own. And that's why I'm calling you, because it seems like you haven't waited around for anybody. You've just gone headlong into Reality-Based Leadership. Is that the case?

Yeah, absolutely.

Tell me about it, about being a rock star.

Well, I don't even know where to begin. I mean, I guess the way I found you was through— we went to the Women in Banking Conference. Gosh, it's probably been a year and a half ago, and I saw Alex speak.

Awesome.

So that was the first time that I'd heard it, and of course I'm like, wow, awesome, doesn't sound like any of the crap I've heard that never works.

Exactly. So you're a smart person.

Immediately signed up for your blog and, you know, started following and bought the book and just was like, this is it. This is the answer for me. I've been, you know, like you hear all this stuff and the cliché answers and all the things, and I manage a really large group and I'm like, it just doesn't seem to be working, or I don't know, my gut was like, it's just not right. So your stuff was work— it worked, you know, it just— It made sense. So yeah, I started just kind of using the language, the reality-based questions, and trying to get people to self-reflect. And I will tell you, it does not always go as pretty as it does in your books. Yeah. Or in your examples.

People need to hear that. People need to hear that. It's not a quick fix. It's messy.

It's not a quick fix. And I find myself getting kind of confused in it sometimes, like, wait a minute. And then I go back and I look at the book again, or I watch one of your blogs again. Because you gotta— it really takes a lot of practice to change your own mental process. Knowing it is one thing, doing it is entirely different.

I love it.

So I just started, you know, kind of my own little self-improvement goal of like, I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna make this happen for my team. And I work in a large organization, there's like 500, 600 people here, I have like 35 of them. But whatever, you know, start somewhere. And then I was asked to chair a committee for leadership development in the organization. We have like a women's mentoring type of group, if you will call it that. And we just try to, you know, help others in the organization, females, develop their leadership skills and all kinds of different stuff. And we've done etiquette training, we've done Oh, I could run through a list. But anyway, I was asked to do some sort of leadership development thing, and I said, well, I want to do a book club on Reality-Based Leadership.

Love it.

So we got— we sent it out. Never done a book club before. I've never led a book club before, but I thought, what, how hard can this be, right? And I didn't know if we'd have 3 people sign up or 300. I didn't know. And every single female in the organization received the invitation and we had to cut it off at 40.

Oh my gosh, I love that. And what most people don't know is a book club can be as powerful as a company-sponsored training. And that's why we offer free book club questions. We really encourage people just to start this organic movement and work with the willing, the people who want to come. And you'll be surprised how many people want to come. So did the book— how'd it go?

It went awesome. We had 4 meetings. We broke it up into just— the first one was more of a kickoff, kind of introducing you because a lot of people had not heard of you. Handed out the books, and then we had 3 sessions, well attended. In fact, I just did a survey, and so far what I'm getting back is about 90% of the folks were able to attend at least 3 of those meetings.

Wonderful.

Good participation and a lot of great conversations.

I love it. And that's a big part of it, is just when people are trying— we want to wake people up that life doesn't have to be this hard. And when you're waking people up, it can just be gentle. You don't have to throw cold water on them while they're sleeping. It's like, it can be as gentle as, hey, read this book and let's get together and just start a conversation about what you think. And I love that you know, instead of waiting for the perfect circumstances, waiting for— not that your company wouldn't support it, but instead of waiting for all of that, you are really focused on, I'm gonna do what I can, I'm gonna impact where I live, and, you know, I'm just gonna put it out there and see what happens. So I love that. I hear—

I'm gonna tell you a funny story. So when we were— we were actually— I had a subcommittee, I had others that were helping me launch this and get it off the ground, and they're going to take over my position to lead the committee in the future. So when we were trying to plan it, we actually kind of got sidetracked in that planning process of like, well, what if everybody can't make it to this location? Should we make it available this day, or should we do it like this? Or what if people don't want the book? What if they want it on Audible? What if, what if, what if? And went into this what-ifs. And I said, you guys, we have to stop trying to Perfect the circumstances here. People who want to get better are going to sign up and show up.

I love it.

We just can't think about what we're talking about right now. We're leading the group, and we are already off track. You can't. We can't.

That's such a great story. That's a great success story because when we want to, if we get focused on how can we change people, we start coddling them. We start trying to make perfect circumstances. And if you're working with the willing. I mean, make it as easy as possible. Don't make it hard intentionally. Right. But basically, you know, buy-in's a choice and willingness is a choice. And I see that so many times we get so off track in trying to make it easy for people. And quite honestly, though, a high accountable— when I get something that people have perfected so much and it's like, you can have it on, you know, 5 different ways, you can have it, you know, in 5 different days, I get frustrated because for me it's like, it seems like the, the group is enabling and bending over backwards to try and accommodate the least accountable.

Right.

You know, I want to be with a group of winners that— I want to be with a group of women in a book club who can figure out how to rearrange their schedule to get to a couple of meetings.

Right. Well, the funny part is we did it over lunch and I said, are you, are you really thinking we needed— everyone gets a lunch hour. Like, it's It's a law. So, I mean, we can't— what do you— anyway, just, it was funny because, you know, we just had to kind of keep each other accountable and remind one another as it went on and as we were being the moderators or the leaders of the group that, wait a minute, are you telling yourself that story? We just, this last week as we wrapped up, one of the gals in the group, we were, you know, kind of do get off onto stories or Positively, like, this is how I think it looks in our workplace or whatever. And she was talking about how it'd be great if we had better communication from leadership and if we just knew what our long-term plans were and if we just knew this. And I said, I gotta interrupt you because I have to tell you, I'm a leader in this organization and I am not waiting for my boss to tell me what he wants me to do next year. That's on me. I get to decide that and I need to tell him what my plan is. And I love that. Others to tell us what we're supposed to do, then what's our value? I mean, that's why I'm in my role, and that trickles down to any level. If, if you want to be tapped on the shoulder and considered for that next thing, like, what are you doing to get ready for that? Are you adding value now? You can't just start adding value when somebody says, here's your chance. I mean, you're— you got to put the— you got to put it out there first.

So, and that takes away from your value when your value is dependent on somebody else orchestrating that. I love that. So many people ask me, you know, how to change their culture, and I say forget about the culture, change your climate. The climate is the area right around you, and if enough climates change, then it's kind of a good type of global warming— culture changes.

Yeah, start with you. It's the easiest spot.

And it's fabulous because if I'm a leader in the organization, it's my responsibility to go find out where the organization's going and to come up with some ideas on how I could align to that and help them get there. And then to give some really solid plans that they may not even thought of that I could say, here's how we could. Yeah. And too many people sit back and wait for the leaders to set the tone and then talk about why we can't. And it's like, it's our job to deliver up. The ultimate in business readiness is that I'm now driving change, not because I want to control it, but because from my place in the organization, I can see how we can improve next and drive it. Right. So you've gone beyond book clubs though. I'm looking at your track record here. You've kind of, not kind of, but I mean, you have taken the budget money you have and you are sponsoring people. I see a lot of your folks in our public seminars, and you're like making this happen.

Well, yeah, I sent my management team, so my direct reports and I all came to the last workshop Kelly did. And then, um, we actually asked for the women who participated in the book club to complete a survey, let us know what they've learned. And we said, if, you know, thoughtful and complete responses will be considered And 3 individuals will be selected to go to the next seminar coming up in January. So

I love it. I love that we were the reward for high accountable behavior.

And I'm loving the responses.

Are you? Good. You all have to share some with us. I absolutely love that you guys attended, that you're having more attend, that you're bringing your leadership team through. What do you think was— I know there's a lot of takeaways, but what was your biggest takeaway from the public seminar? Kelly does a Phenomenal job. But what was your biggest takeaway?

Oh my gosh. You know, something I don't know how I missed it or I just forgot it, but I loved the tools, especially like the negative brainstorming, because, you know, you can't wipe that stuff under the rug. Like, employees have these reactions, they have these thoughts, and often they just sit quietly and you're, you know, you don't want to necessarily acknowledge that, okay, there might be some issues here or whatever, there might be challenges, because you feel like that's negative or whatever. But I love the idea of just kind of letting them get it out. Like, let's negative brainstorm and let's just say, okay, we all see that, we all know it, but now what? Like, so what? Let's go on. Now what are we going to do about it? How are we still going to be successful?

And for, you know, a lot of our followers, we're focusing a lot more on the tools. I hinted at them in other books, but in the book No Ego, I really give you that toolkit For that very reason, because to get things out from away from the ego, from being in your mind where the ego can manipulate it, if you can get things out there and get them conscious and visible, then our behavior, our, our actions can become really intentional. Yeah. And a lot of people are loving the tools because it gives us a way to really take people's energy away from why we can't and put it into how we could. And it bases us in reality because we're looking at it straight up on the wall. And, you know, we can help people understand that that's our reality. How do we succeed anyway? So I love that you're picking up on the tool piece because we're really pushing those as a way that people can identify the next place they can have impact. I love that. So a lot of us sit back and we go, this is an impossible situation. But if we use these tools, it really helps you know where to have impact next. Like a question for self-reflection, like what would great look like? The reason that's such a great question is it disarms the ego and it gets you thinking about where's my next point of impact. And so, you know, that's really what we're trying to create. Well, I love it. I asked Kelly to set up a fake call with you because I wanted to personally reach out to you. And the number one thing I think you bring to the table as a rock star is so many people wait for their circumstances to be different to implement reality-based leadership in their lives. and they think it needs to be a broader organizational piece. And so many leadership philosophies say it has to start from the top. I was just at a conference this morning where 3 people said, well, if your senior leaders aren't on board, you're probably dead in the water. If it doesn't start at the top, how can they expect us to do it? I wanted to stand up and scream. Yeah. Like, it can start right now in this minute with the people I'm right in front of you, but it's got to start with you. So, so I can't end the call without asking, like, how can we help you?

Yeah, well, I don't know. You caught me off guard. Um, well, you can— I just, I guess I feel compelled to tell you that I really want— I, I think this could transform our entire organization. I don't know when or if or how it would be adopted from the top down. So I'm not really worried about that. I'm just taking, you know, one step at a time here. And I'm encouraging HR to use this. And also, you know, I would love to see us do a bank-wide engagement survey. And I know you guys offer that so that we can sift through the opinions that don't matter.

Yeah, the low accountables.

Yeah, let's get to the real heart of it. I want to hear from the people in the organization that are really doing a lot of the work and, and we're sincerely committed. So I've already kind of dropped that hint and I'm going to keep pushing that forward. So I think a dream for me, like dream come true, it never hurts to put it out there. I would love to become certified in reality-based leadership, but you are expensive, girlfriend. I wasn't kidding. Holy cow.

That's hilarious. Well, we'll see what we can do to work on that. We'll, uh, see what we can do to, to reach out because, yeah, I get it, especially when you're doing it on your own. Um, we know it's worth every penny, but, uh, we'll see what we can do about that pricing for you. Yeah. I just think it's so important, um, that a lot of this, when we hear about something, our ego takes us immediately to, well, everybody should pay attention or they should be doing that. And you really did this no ego thing of like, I'm gonna change because it will change my quality of life. And I tell people it's attraction, not promotion. The best way to sell this in your organization is when you have no drama teams that you're leading and you guys are happy and producing great results and people want to know how you got such great results. Then you tell them we practice reality-based leadership. So—

Yeah, and so I just Really, there's been several people as a part of the book club or even others not in the book club, but that I've been exposing this to who are like literally saying, I, I never knew. And, and they're using it to change things right now. Like those are the survey feedbacks is that I, I didn't realize how much I was contributing and I'm changing and I've already seen a difference. And I don't think this is a work thing. It's a life thing. So I, I feel like I'm doing my job and I'm fulfilling a better, a higher purpose by helping people just have a more peaceful life, not just their work. But oh my gosh, this is powerful stuff. Like, you're

amazing. Oh, thank you. It is powerful stuff. And I love that you connected to just living life at a higher, um, a higher level. And, um, you know what, I love to reward rock stars, and I love you putting it out there that you have a dream of getting certified because, um, What I want Kelly to work on, and she's in the room, is our first 2 days of certification. We're getting certified in Reality-Based Leadership, and I would love to give you a complimentary tuition to those first 2 days of our certification. You can come for free.

Oh my gosh!

Yeah!

Oh my God, I wish I could hug

you. You just hugged me. My heart is so warm because I just want the world to know, like, Life rewards the brave. Life rewards the courageous. And you need to come in and get spoiled up. So I'll have Kelly work with you on dates if there's any way to make it. We've got one coming up in a couple of weeks. Otherwise, we'll get you to the spring one.

Okay.

And we'll— but if we can get you in in October, we'll get you in. And I spend time with you on day 1 in the afternoon. And, uh, so you get certified and we'll work with you on how to continue, um, You know, working with the willing in your organization, and we want to hear even more about the results you're seeing. We're going to definitely feature you in one of our case studies that we put out there. So you are a rock star.

Awesome. Thank you so much. You bet. This is like the highlight of, I don't know, probably the year.

Well, we're going to get you a bigger life if I'm the highlight. No, I'm kidding. Well, Laura, we think you're amazing. I just wanted to say hello and thank you, and I really appreciate your letting me know. That makes it worth it for me to keep doing what I do, that I've got people out there who are using this to make a difference in the lives of others.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Thank you so much for joining the episode today. If you're loving this podcast, just make sure that you check me out on Facebook and Instagram and especially YouTube.