#25: How Traditional Leadership Fuels Drama

Hi, I'm Sy Wakeman, and you're listening to No Ego, a podcast where we teach you how to ditch the drama, end entitlement, and drive big results in your workplace and your world place. I am absolutely thrilled to have Ray and John Shanahan, They're with Business Solver, and too many of you don't know about Business Solver. So I'm going to let them explain quickly what their company provides for other organizations, and then we're going to get into talking about RBL. So who wants to take the— what, in one sentence or less? No, I'm kidding.

In a paragraph or less.

A paragraph or less. What is it that you provide to companies?

I'll jump in, and then I'll for sure, Ray, add if you have more to say there. But, uh, we provide insurance technology software that really empowers employers and employees as it relates to their benefit selections. And we're just developing technology, cool tools to make it easier to use or take something that's super hard to understand, like all your insurance benefits, which I'm sure, Cy, you understand all of them well.

Exactly.

Something you want to spend a lot of time on, and we're using technology to just make it easier.

I love that because I think it really empowers people if they can Understand simply what's available, then they can make accountable choices. So very cool. Do you want to add to that?

Yeah, it just happens to be annual enrollment right now. Exactly. So most people think about annual enrollment as like a one-time thing to be able to enroll in their benefits. And what we're focused on is how do we make it a personalized experience so people get the right benefits at the right time at the right place.

Love it.

But this week, there have been— every day has been more than 100,000 people going through our system.

100,000 people on the system.

Every day. Every day.

That's craziness. For those of us, I just hung out with benefits people, they seem stressed all the time.

They are stressed. They are stressed.

And you guys take the stress out of it. You actually make employees like their benefits people again. It's like, I love it.

That's the goal.

I love it. And we have partnered and continue to partner over the, I think the last 3 years or so, and in bringing reality-based leadership philosophy to your teams and your organization. And then I hear all kinds of stories too of you sharing some of the philosophies with your clients as like extra value. And I've gotten to speak at client events. It's been very, very fun. So how'd you get interested in RBL? Like, where did it even start?

Well, I'll tell you. The girlfriend?

Yes.

A friend, a coworker from my— Oh, that's right.

I forgot about that. Anne.

And she's like, Rae, you'd love this PSYCH person. I'm, you know, of course, pull you up and big, you know, you know, I'm a bit obsessed.

Yeah.

Yeah, just a little bit of a fan.

Like disciple, like CY disciple psychologist, which I love it because that does happen where people discover me and they just eat it up because I think I put out there what a lot of us have been thinking, a lot of things we've struggled with from a leadership and HR standpoint where we're like, that's just not how it works, or traditional leadership methods aren't working any longer. It's like it's fueling the drama, not, not, you know, diffusing the drama. So, so we started— I think one of the first things I did was I came out and was it a client event that we did together? So you asked me to speak on reality-based leadership. And, and then where have you done with it since then? The company— I know these guys are raving fans, not just these 2, but when I go to their offices in Des Moines, Iowa, I feel a bit like a rock star. All the girls

are.

Oh my God.

And, you know, most people don't want people on their cell phones and YouTube at work, and I think I am like, have my own channel at your place.

People are watching me. They like line up ahead. They like were like 15, 20 minutes early just for the session because they wanted to see you.

They love it.

And the thing is, is they have adopted it and taken it to heart and really put it out there. So what are some things— then we've come into the company, we've done different things, and I know I've worked with the two of you just from, you know, founders and founders like Like, we understand what it's like to own a company. And in some of those places, we get to learn to grow. But what are some of your, like, favorite stories or favorite philosophies? Is there something that you think is game-changing for you?

Well, I think the first thing is, I mean, one of the first things, Sai, is like, I mean, it's a good refresher, right?

Yeah, we already know this stuff.

Right? Yes. But I also think employees inherently attach to it right away. It's like, it makes good sense and your style is fun. And it's funny, and so they appreciate it. But I think just building it into the culture is a good reminder. And I think so many of the messages you need to be reminded of more frequently than you think sometimes. You know, the human condition can be fragile, and getting into some of the drama, getting in your head, telling yourself stories, I mean, you just get sideways. And so I think it's— we've used it to be a fun refresher. And so we use it in the Business Solver Way quite a bit. And I think that's why people— some of it inherently— It's like they know you. Yeah, it becomes a part of your culture.

It's a cultic thing, yeah. So the Business Solver Way, Well, first of all, great technique. We'll get to that in a minute. What you said, I think, is so true. So we all have this human condition, and this isn't something you can cure, right? That's right. So you have to do this daily practice. You have to be re-reminded, because in any given day, my state of accountability can flux, my drama can flux. It's like I toggle from, like, ego to no ego, back and forth. And I think that's really important. One of the things I love about the roundtable is we get businesses to share, like, what's really worked and in getting people to adopt these principles. And John, you brought up the Business Solver Way. And so I really want you to expand on that because that has been amazing for people to really interact on a daily basis with the principles.

For sure.

You know, one of the things we do every single day, we have standup and we've been doing it since 2012. And every morning at 8:30, all the teams get together. Love it. And it is a big investment for an organization. And, you know, I can't believe that you let us do it still, but you think about every morning, 30 minutes, people get together They talk about what's going on, but we always end with a segment called The Business Lover Way. And it's, it's about reinforcing who we are, why we're here, what our learnings are. And Sai, I'm gonna have to say, you, you might be, you know, out of the, I don't know, 800 or 900 episodes I've done, you probably have at least 100 episodes out there. Yep, you by far are the most, uh, most used.

And what I love is you take my stuff and you put— you present it better than I do. It's like, that's what's great. I get a lot of ideas from her where she I see glimpses of this stuff and I'm like, I am so stealing that.

You know, I actually have a— it's really fun. 2 things. It's really fun because we want to continue to bring you into our workplace and we've just, as you know, we've chosen to adopt your virtual training program and we're going to get employees certified. I love it. But the second piece of it is we also want to work with the willing. Yeah. You might say that every once in a while.

These guys are experts at working with the willing. They just don't even fret about anybody who's not on board yet. You're like, we're going to work with the willing. Exactly.

And I do play favorites. Yes, excuse me. I might have heard you say that a couple times. But recently when you came to speak to our team on our monthly John Talk, I had a casting call. Anybody that wanted to number one get an autographed book and to participate in a pilot to be a part of it.

So to even get a book or to take the training, you have to like try out for it.

Yes, yes. And so I have a whole stack of employees that wrote their personal why. Wow. And how you impacted them.

So you said if you want a book or you want in this training, you've got to tell me how reality-based leadership has impacted you. That's just amazing. So you make people apply for it. You have to prove their willingness. You are hardcore on this, and it works. It works. So what happens? It's like they do it.

They do. They do. And, you know, do you mind if I share a story?

I would love for you.

Instead of paraphrasing, it's a really fun, real story.

I love that you brought it, which is a form of self-reflection, right? The assignment for self-reflection is let us know how this has impacted you. So for you guys looking for assignments for self-reflection, that's a great one. So, okay.

And this might help your ego because I know, I, you know, I know you don't have one. I have an ego.

But you know, it'll help my heart, definitely. Probably my ego too.

This is a dear, um, an employee that's been about 4 years or so. So having had the opportunity to work with almost every new hire Particularly the first few years, what Sy means to me is very tied into that. It's normal for anyone new to ask the question, what would you tell someone new? And so here's what he says. He says, number 1, it's okay to play favorites. Number 2, work with the willing. Number 3, don't tell yourself stories.

Oh my gosh.

And he said that these are all very, very important to me. I strive to be a favorite compensated on value and not effort. Work and lead with your visionaries. Engage people who are unwilling but need to come along. But what I really want to focus on here is the lesson of not telling yourself stories. My ego strength is less than 10 and my accommodation is through the roof. There can be greatness in that combination, but it's so emotionally expensive and taxing. I can insert detail into every interaction or lack thereof. Where only a sentence exists, I can build a novel. So when I came— Amazing self-reflection. So when I came to Business Solver and heard that not only was it okay to be this way, but you— that you are also empowered to find the truth and stop telling stories, I didn't believe it. It took me an entire year to get comfortable in that reality, but being able to do that was transformative personally and professionally. That I can not only own that there is a part of me capable of creating such emotional expense, but face it head-on genuinely changed my life for the better.

Changed my life for the better. Corporate training that changes your life for the better. Like, who would have thought that would— you know, I love this. There's a couple of things in here I want to pull up because I know you've started to help people use this in their evaluation. But yeah, as you know, I— let me grab on that for in just a minute. Okay. A couple things I want to pull out here. One, this is somebody touching every new employee, and that they can just recall— work with the willing, stop telling yourself stories— like, that's the power of the simplicity in it. But I love that he keyed in to how quickly you can get into story and how that makes you so emotionally expensive. And even though you're amazing technically, how you can negate all the value you add through emotional expensiveness. And I have a value equation for viewers that haven't stumbled onto this. In the book Reality-Based Rules of the Workplace, I have a value equation that looks at the value of an employee's work. And it goes beyond performance. It looks at how ready you are for what's next. But most importantly, it looks at how emotionally expensive you are, how drama-filled you are. Because we want less drama. More drama, more performance. And you guys have actually incorporated this into your formal evaluation system. We

started putting it in our scorecards. You know, you think about it, I think some— we think about it a little bit wrong. So some of the most expensive cars that you can buy, take a Ferrari, right? Yeah. It's also the most expensive on maintenance. And so if you think about it, you just accept, yes, you know, there are going to be some people that have drama. But maybe they lose sight of it. And so you get into your index and you say, you know, basically if they create too much drama, you know, then it's not going to work out, right? Yeah. And the formula is going to be upside down. So I think, you know, you can come in, psi can come in, you can create a great effect, and for a period of time, people, it can be dramatic, it's in check, right? And so we just started to say, hey, listen, if we work with people that are willing to change, Yeah. and we make them aware, there's an awareness around this, and some, you know, sometimes it exists, but oftentimes people want to change it.

They do. Once people know their drama quotient and that it's not helpful, a lot of people do want to change it. They just didn't know there's a price to drama. They thought it was cost of doing business. I'm great and I can be a little dramatic sometimes.

Or it's like when we say the gossips don't know they're necessarily gossips.

That they don't, especially when they're gossiping to you about the gossips.

The drama, they don't know that they're drama. And so the way to, you know, a way to positively, you know, address this situation is put it in the scorecard. Have it in the one-on-ones. Have a conversation about it and look at it and talk about it. You know, has there been drama this week or not, or is it in check?

I love it. Is your drama in check? Here's your weekly scorecard. And what it does is it keeps it conversational.

Yes.

And it normalizes it. This isn't about you being a bad human being. It's about all of us having this human condition. Yes, it's normal. But part of coming to work and adding value is managing that piece of it, is making sure you're out of ego and And into reflection, and you're editing your stories. I love— I mean, he was so eloquent. Like, he's like, I can add detail into every storyline. A year.

I know.

A year. And that's why a lot of people say, when do you give up on people? They ask me this. They're like, when do you just, you know, get rid of people? And I tell folks, as long as somebody's willing, I'll stick with them for quite a while because this is really counterintuitive stuff for some folks. It's really different than how they've been rewarded in the past or lived in the past. So I'll stick with people. As long as they're willing and on a weekly basis can self-reflect and—

There's change though. There's evolution, right?

There's evolution.

You're down a path where you see growth. But I think—

there'll be setbacks, but there's growth over all this evolution.

The two are tied oftentimes, right? The folks that are telling themselves stories can be dramatic, right? Because the story can get really big and I've got to get it out there and talk about it. And so then how do you manage it? How do you work with it?

You're right. The evolution is right because it seems like my biggest growth moments have been like Right after my biggest setbacks, like where I really— the subtle stuff your ego can keep well hidden, but the big stuff, all of a sudden it just gets revealed. And yeah, you've got to deal with the, the ego chafing that happens, the bruise, the ego bruise. So you guys, when I am there, and you've got pages of stories people wrote in about life-changing, what are some of your other favorite stories with, you know, Not using names to protect the innocent, but do you have some favorite stories or favorite details?

I'd love to share a personal one.

Okay.

I had the good fortune of you helping coach me this year, and it has been so wonderful.

Awesome. I love that you outed yourself. I never would.

There was a time that I would— I don't need coaching. What? Yeah, I can— I got this all down. And I'll tell you a couple things that you taught me this year. My favorite one is the story about over-rotation.

Oh, I love that one. Yes, I remember it, but I want you to tell it because it's a big concept that a lot of us don't understand.

And we don't realize sometimes the effect we can have on people. So I think you were telling me a story about, um, you were always getting cold meat sandwiches or something.

Oh yes, yes.

When you were doing, uh, when you were at speaking engagements and you— I hate that you might have said, I don't ever want a cold meat sandwich again.

Oh, I should tell— I can tell that part. I want you to tell your part. Yeah, so We were, we were coaching and I got the sense that Rae was doing some over-rotation or that her people were doing some over-rotation. Yeah, I speak every day. And if you add that up, you might not realize that every conference you get cold meat sandwiches. So 5 days a week for like 4 months, I've eaten a cold meat sandwich every day. So I said, you guys, I just hate cold meat sandwiches. I would just love like a chicken Caesar salad at some point. So So my entire staff, like, wrote into the contract, she will not eat cold meat sandwiches, only eats, like, chicken Caesar salad. So now the next 4 months, 5 days in a row, people made special trips to go outside the conference venue to get me Caesar salads. I just wanted one once in a while, but my mandate, like, over-rotated everybody to please me. Is that the story you're talking about?

I don't think you know the funny side of that is I think Through that, Ray figured out why she— we go to our Denver office quite a bit. I think through that story she realized why she was getting the same meal at the Denver office consistently.

No, the best story though on the over-rotation is there was one time when we had food catered in and there were raw onions. And you might have been a little vocal about that you think raw onions in a closed room smells like body odor. It's terrible. Or something. Yeah, it's bad. And next thing we know, we're out like at dinner meetings or like at a, you know, whatever. And they'll be like—

We've cleared the restaurant of all— Yeah, they'll be like, Mrs. Schultz,

You have a food allergy. I want to let you know that there are no onions. There might be some in the salsa, but no onions anywhere else. That is over-rotation.

Over-rotation. And it's unintentional. It's unintentional, but what leaders don't realize is when they speak something, they have formal power, but they also have such informal power that people will take a single sentence of reaction and over-rotate it. So if you're always life processing, if you're always giving your opinion about stuff, you've got your staff like You know, over-rotating. What was your lesson? And I can't remember what you were talking about.

I think it was that his staff was over-rotating.

Oh, we were talking about him. Maybe in our coaching—

She was being a ventriloquist.

Possibly. You did kind of give me some good counseling. You might have a little counseling in your background.

Possibly. I have a little counseling in my background. When you see people overreacting and you just don't feel like they're using critical thinking skills and, and You see them just taking one rule and overgeneralizing it. As a leader, you have to check yourself, one, to stop issuing just lots of opinions just because you thought it. You need to be really careful what you speak.

Did you say live processing? I like that.

Yeah, live processing. Did that get your coding blood going? Was that exciting for you?

I think, you know, if you have a big personality as a leader, right, you do live processing. I could totally see how you could do live processing. You just— it's something you don't even realize you're doing.

You're always speaking. Well, people are like gathering all this data and making big moves when you just thought it and spoke it, and they're like, oh, we need to change all red napkins, need to leave the building. Yes. And as leaders, what we have to be more conscious of is what I call batch processing, where before I start to give direction or feedback, I need to really bring it in and put it in kind of a batch processed way where I can present it so that people know what emphasis and priority to give my feedback. Because being kind of a big personality, there's a lot we say in passing That people who are pretty hungry to serve us really take to heart, and we end up overutilizing resources of the organization over things we wouldn't value. And then we get mad at the people for doing it. They're just trying to serve us.

It's more of you feel guilty because I feel so bad that they, they believe that. And, you know, the other thing that you told me was encourage people— if you feel like the over-rotation, find them in a moment and just say, hey, why don't you just Go back and clarify what John meant. Just say, John, did you— I just want to make sure that I understand so I can act on that. And helping them have the courage just to say, timeout, I just want to make sure I understood what that sign was.

I remember this situation. I think this is so important because you're working a bit in a support role where you'll find groups of people that have over-rotated on something that he has said as the CEO of the organization. And I think that happens for all of us. We're not trying to embarrass anybody at Business Solver. It happens for all of us. And what people often don't do is go back and really validate and check. And so another remedy is if you find somebody who is really marching with some marching orders that you think are either not aligned with the business or taken out of context, just encouraging people to say, why don't you go back and have a clarifying conversation and just make sure? Because yeah, that's how I ended up eating the same thing for months. Is because people would over-rotate and, and, and They need to clarify with me, but I also need to be a really accountable leader and not just provide these opinions all over the place. And that's why as a leader, you've got to be very careful what you comment on, that you're always providing some context. Because I can walk in and say, why do we have orange pillows in here? And all of a sudden, people are making a note someplace, you know, never— Cy hates orange. And we just have to be careful of our constant narration.

I think there's a There was a pretty interesting story in the news that we had a bet about. You might have heard it. There was a CEO that had a plane following the plane. And I said, I just wonder at one point where there was a blowup and it was like, I can't believe we don't have a backup for this plan. And somebody said, we're always going to have a plane follow that plane. We're not even going to tell him because we don't want to deal with him the next time it happens. We were just kind of like, do you suppose that was over-rotation?

Over-rotation. I love it. We have a plane follow-up. plane. And, and that's really how we get inefficiencies, you know, going in the workplace is over-rotation. I think it's a great concept. So I love that you picked up on that. It's been a blast coaching you. Absolutely. You're an easy coachee.

So, you know what, work with the willing makes it— makes life much better.

You know what's so cool about collaboration that happens once I have organizations that are benefiting from the work? They do become disciples. And it's wonderful as I see you you really consulting with organizations you're adding value to, because you're not just there to provide technology to handle their benefit selection. You're there to add value, to make that a simpler experience, to help people be more accountable, to really be there in the time they need it. And what I love about it is you guys have become so fluent in reality-based leadership that I see, you know, when I work with your business development, your sales folks, and the people enabling those implementations, They're starting to just share these concepts with people. We're about to make a big change, and so here's how we can do that with less drama. And that's where life gets really fun, when we're collaborating. You're my clients, and now you're enabling your clients differently. This just becomes this whole daisy chain of cool stuff going on.

Yeah.

So I

have a couple more.

Yeah, go for it. I do. We'll take all you got, baby.

So I can't remember her name. She—you'll want to edit this out—but it's the one about hot mess, some sort of emotional.

Oh, Sherry, my sister Sherry?

No, no, no, the author.

Oh, Danielle Laporte. Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

Danielle Laporte.

You—you used something of hers in your thirty-day challenge. And by the way, we used the thirty-day challenge for Business Lover Way for multiple days.

Twenty-day challenge. Twenty-day challenge.

Yeah. Yeah.

The twenty-day—the twenty-day—or the three-day drama challenge. Which one? Whatever we do.

The accountability—

that's the accountability challenge.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so 20-day accountability challenge. 2 things with that. Number one, any new hires that are on my team, I'm having them take that as part of their onboarding. Oh, awesome. And then we talk about what they're learning about themselves each day.

This is incredible. That's another great technique. So at Reality-Based Leadership, we'll put out for free— we just want to feed everybody— and we put out a 20-day challenge that any of you can tap into. Just check out on my Facebook page, it's there, the link is there. And then you're having new hires take that every day and then process that with them.

That's a battle, of course, because if they can't— if they're going to be on the team and they can't set aside their ego, they're not going to be able to go out in the organization and be good stewards to help. Oh, I love this. But one of the days in there, you had— what was her name?

Danielle Laporte. If you haven't discovered her, she's amazing.

But it was a thing about make sure you leave at the end of the day not looking at what you accomplished, How did you feel? And can you leave with integrity?

Yeah, right. I love that. So what Danielle teaches in part of a journaling process is don't just make a list of goals or what you need to get done. Really meditate on how you want to feel at the end of the day— accomplished, having had integrity, whatever is important for you to feel— and then work towards doing those things you need to do to feel that way, not just get your stuff done.

That made— I think that's one of the most kind of largest things that— what am I looking for? Impact?

Profound?

Yeah, one of the more profound things that I've come across this year from you, and it has truly been a personal life changer for me and game changer for me because every— I can say that since I did that earlier this year, maybe 3 days I've gone home that I just say, I didn't handle that interaction very well today, and, you know, it's It just eats at me.

See, and I think it used to be a lot more than that. I love that. We're down to 3. We're down to 3. The wine consumption goes down. This is an important thing because a lot of us, when we're in ego, we're planning how we're gonna get things done and charge through, and our whole thing is get things done rather than really process and be present in the moment. And if you focus on how you want to feel at the end of the day, I want to you know, feel as though I left people's dignity intact. I want to feel content with myself. Really driving towards those is behavior changing. Yes. And self-reflection. And the thing about any of these challenges or what we put out on social media is we are encouraging self-reflection. And self-reflection is, you know, the antidote to the ego, right? So self-reflection— the ego can't vent and self-reflect at the same time. Self-reflection really gets you beyond ego and really is the foundation of accountability. And so these challenges, we put in a lot about self-reflection, and that's really our goal, because if you're self-reflecting, you're not in ego, and the results are always better. So love it.

You love her phrase, don't you?

Which phrase?

Which phrase?

You're me-go.

Okay, your ego's not your amigo.

Yeah, we use that one all the time now, right?

And what's it mean to you when you're talking about your ego's not your amigo?

I think you get into Right, this whole self-reflection where we're going just there, right, is that if you're into stories and the stories are causing drama, then where is it coming from?

Nice.

So that's a quick way to say, you know, could it possibly be coming from your ego, right? Are you just having to feed the ego? Is it really your amigo in this situation? So it's just a fun way, right, to check at the door. And if you've had this dialogue, now you can open this up with fun things, right? It becomes vocabulary.

It does become vocabulary and humor because it's just a nudge, not a condemnation.

That makes it safe.

It's not personal, it's safe, it's normal, we all have it. But I love where you go with that because our ego is what narrates the world. It takes a busy day and turns it into a crazy day. Well, is it busy or crazy? It's busy. My ego made it crazy. So I love about that, that you've connected that to stories. This language that we have, then we can just talk about this normal thing called the human condition. And that makes even it less drama getting back on track. Yes. Because you don't have to, you know, beat yourself up. You don't have to, you know, go through, you know, the valley of death. And you can just go, you know what, that was my ego. My ego's not my amigo. Back to reality. Here's what I needed to say. And the more you can get people to get fluent in what I call toggling back and forth and sensing this is what ego feels like, this is what beyond ego feels like, people get this fluent fluency that really is so empowering.

Yes.

Because it's like, oh, I don't like the situation, doesn't feel right, it's stressful. Oh wait, I can just toggle over here, same situation, no stress. Let's plan from here because I'm more innovative. And you just start getting people to toggle back and And forth, and it really opens up an entirely new set of business skills for them. Love it.

Well, I think if you can recognize it, right, if you can recognize it and everybody's on the same page, right, and you understand where it's coming from, then you can neutralize it much more quickly.

Neutralize— that's perfect.

Then you can move on, you can get back to work, you can get back to focusing. I do think though the other thing that we've done is having, you know, the assessments that we have in place and being a strength-based organization, because then we can talk about Hey, for us, we use Caliper as a tool. I

love Caliper.

We have their Caliper. We share their Caliper. We're level set on what their strengths and their Caliper look like. Then if you're building in a vocabulary, we're building in how we look at the world through Cy, it just is all reinforcing and it becomes a dialogue with an employee, not some sort of criticism, not some sort of— we're invested. We're both invested. We understand we're human. We understand we're going to have flaws. get on with the, you know, the business of how can we both grow together.

I love that. And it's that call to greatness. And too many times leaders aren't nudging and molding and really calling their associates to greatness or each other to greatness because they think it's gonna be some confrontational or it's, it's gotta be some big deal. But it's not. If you have these tools, it's just steering your car. We got too close to the ditch. Let's like, let's keep the car between the ditches. And you can be here in all your diversity and all your, you know, whatever your caliber is, you can be here and be that, but you got to stay between the ditches. And what you guys have really done by working with the willing, which I really want to focus on this piece because a lot of people talk to me about how do we change the culture.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you can't really change a culture. You can change a climate.

Yes.

And then you can have like this cool kind of global warming Well, how do you change a climate? You work with the willing, right? And a lot of people, when they hear my stuff, they're like, well, that won't work with Ed. And I'm like, don't worry about Ed. Yeah. Work with the willing. And then those are the cool kids. And then you start to get more people that are the easy converts. And you really can build this momentum where then after a few years, those that don't fit are pretty obvious. And then you feed this with your new hire. Like, people are hired for this. You guys are interviewing for, and then you onboard them with the challenge. And, and then, you know, it's obvious your people are being fed daily. Actually, they aren't even being fed, they're eating, they're, they're hunting their own food daily. Yes. If it's not their stand-up meetings and the Business Solver way, we see them, they are online, they are watching our stuff, they're sharing our stuff, they're commenting. And it just becomes a way of you're accountable for your own mindset and Your own employee value, your emotional expensiveness, you mind your own drama quotient. And if you aren't, we have a lot of people who will help nudge you back into this effortless way of doing business.

And if not, you know, John Miller has a book called QBQ.

I love that. He endorsed my first book. I was so grateful. Yeah, I was so grateful.

One of his chapters is my favorite chapter, and I tell new hires on their first morning It's believe or leave. And, you know, that's, that's just it. You have to commit. There's going to be good days, bad days, and you just have to make the best of it. But you said it better in your latest book.

Yeah, so Stay in Joy or Go in Peace. And, and I love where he's like, believe or leave. But for me, the way you stay and the way you leave is even more important because if you're here Dig in, help us understand how we can, like, believe and stay, but do it in joy, or leave in peace, but leave because you don't prefer it here. Not that you blame us and judge us, but too many people think there's this third option, like, I can stay in hate, I can, like, stay in critique, right?

Stay in misery.

Stay in misery, and you'll pay me to stay in Criticize you. And, and I let people know, I'm like, there's just no third option. Like, I'm not gonna pay you to stay and hate me, so stay in joy or go in peace. And that's why I like what he did, but I wanted to take it further. Yeah, I love it. Because a lot of people do leave, but they judge you on the way out.

Right.

So thank you for the honor of being able to work in your organization, the partnership, the collaboration. It's been a pleasure to have my friends from Business Solver in this episode. Thank you so much for joining the episode today. If you're loving this podcast, just make sure that you check me out on Facebook and Instagram and especially YouTube.