#32: Stepping Into Your Power with Shelley Zalis

Hi, I'm Sy Wakeman, and you're listening to No Ego, a podcast where we teach you how to ditch the drama, end entitlement, and drive big results in your workplace and your world place. Welcome to another episode of the incredible No Ego podcast. I am starting to get connected to some of the most incredible people. I couldn't even imagine where life would take me. And one of those people is Shelly Zalis. I have her on today. She is the CEO of The Female Quotient. She's also the founder of The Girls Lounge. And if you don't know about Shelly, then I think you maybe have been hiding under a rock, because when I met her, she is a phenom and she has taken the world by storm and she is Bringing together incredible conversation about women and how we are just going to, I think, take over the world. Thanks, Shellye, for being here. How are you?

Well, God's eye, I'm so thrilled to be here with you. And as you know, I think that you are truly the leading voice on no ego and reality-based leadership. So we can't wait to have you host a conversation in our Girls Lounge. Hopefully it's gonna be in, in Cannes at the Cannes Lions.

I will be in Cannes, absolutely. In fact, we're just making reservations. And I got to be in the Girls Lounge at South by Southwest in Austin. And jump into, you wanna just explain to people what the Girls Lounge part of the work you do is so people know what happens there? It's amazing. If you get a chance to get to a Girls Lounge at any of the major conferences, You must go.

You know, Madeleine Albright always says that women that don't support other women deserve a place in hell. We say that women that support other women deserve a place in heaven. So the Girls Lounge started really by accident. We say we went from a moment to a movement a few years ago when I wanted to go to CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, which is a big show for technology. I heard there was over 150,000 people with very few women in attendance. And so it was quite intimidating, even for, you know, a CEO like me that has built a career in market research. Put me in a research conference, I know everyone. Put me in a tech conference, I don't know anyone. And so I invited a few girlfriends to go with me. And I said, and if you know other girlfriends, invite them to join us. And 24 hours later, 50 women showed up. And it was really a remarkable experience. 2 incredible things happened. One, all the guys' heads turned like, where the heck did all you women come from? And it's when we truly coined the phrase Power of the Pack. A woman alone is power. Collectively, we have impact. It was just this moment of whoosh. We entered into this conference, walked the floor, and everybody paid attention. And the second thing that happened was a confidence moment. I was surrounded by women just like me. That have historically conformed to the rules, you know, that were written by men over 100 years ago, but made no sense for us. But we had to follow those rules. And all of a sudden it was this surrounded by people just like me where we were willing to break the rules to create new ones. And doing it all together was, you know, a very confidence-building moment. So that was a few years ago. The Girls Lounge was born. There's a boys club. Why not have a girls lounge? Men, of course, are welcome, but they are the minority. And we create pop-up experiences pop-up spaces at big industry conferences for women to connect, collaborate, activate change together. And in the past couple of years, we've connected over 17,000 corporate women globally from Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurs as well that work together supporting each other, sharing wisdom, lessons learned, the good, bad, and the ugly with truth, unplugged conversation. And real commitment to not just talking about the problems, but creating solutions for change and bringing that back to the workplace, working with, you know, leaders, men and women, to, to create accountability for that change.

And, and I absolutely— it was my first experience at the Girls Lounge, absolutely loved it, because what maybe it was an idea for a bit of a place of refuge or to find like people, actually What I found is the programming that was happening at the Girls Lounge was in many ways better than any of the programming happening at the actual conference. Like, it wasn't just a place to come hang out and casually network. Like, you walked in there and there were powerhouse personalities there who were accessible and talking about key things. The programming you put on was fabulous, plus good drinks and food. And I just, I loved it. So I really hope My listeners, if you're at a major conference, seek out the Girls Lounge and visit it. What I love about what you're describing, Shelley, is a lot of times when I talk to people about diversity and inclusivity, and they want to sit down and plan for how we can make some of this stuff happen. And to me, it's so ripe right now. It could be just so organic by just starting the avalanche, by just saying, you know what? Do you and 3 other people know how we can get this done? Because I think women are just so ready to step up and just let the creative juices flow and figure it out on the way and make it happen. And, you know, coming together, just some great things can happen. So wonderful. Now you talk a lot about leadership and also I know our CEO of The Female Quotient, if, you know, You had your top 3 list when you talk about leadership and what you think about or what you advise other people of. What are some of your key philosophies, especially in regards to how women can really succeed in leadership? What are some of the things you hold near and dear or your key philosophies?

Well, I think first of all, you know, influence the influencers. And, you know, women are power. We control most of the purchase decisions, you know, that happen in the world today. So we need to influence the influencers. We are the boss. And it's not waiting for someone to hand the keys to the castle to say, you now tap, you're it, you're a leader. We are all leaders if we believe we are. And leadership is not about age. Leadership is not about level. Leadership is about action. And the best leaders are those that inspire others to be their best self and to be their best self together, because we are definitely better together than we are individually. Leadership is recognizing that power within yourself first, because you obviously can't help others if you can't help yourself. And, and the best leaders have confidence. It's not trying to be someone else. It's being yourself and owning your strength. and finding that voice and finding that confidence. And I think once you have those ingredients, right or wrong, don't look for permission, but take it and take that action and bring others with you. So I really think that, you know, the best leadership tip that I can give people is not wait for the hierarchical assignment that says you now have become a leader and start acting like one. I think you have to be a leader. And when you are a leader, you become a leader, if that makes sense.

It does. And I love it. And some of us are waiting for permission from this hierarchy, but the hierarchy is going away because it's not how work is done anymore. Work is done through teaming and influence and not even the same team coming together and moving apart. But you really hit on something I teach a lot when people are talking to me about, well, Sai, I want this change, but I would need to be empowered. And what I say is, you guys, empowerment is stepping into the power you already have. Most of us don't even use the power we have. We play small. We wait for somebody to give us the baton. It's like, you don't need to get power from the outside. You need to step fully into who you are and then in connection with others. And when I was younger, there was a Native American nun who taught me this cool prayer, and I apply it to women. And it's called the 3-step prayer. When you get out of bed in the morning, your first step on the floor, is stepping into yourself and making some decisions about how you're going to walk in the world. And then your second step out of bed is stepping into connections with others and meditating on how you're going to connect with and bring others with you. And then the third step is stepping into mystery, all of the incredible things we can create together. And it's just this prayer she taught me. I think I was 8 years old, so the language wasn't quite that sophisticated, but You just said the 3-step prayer. Step into your own power and be a leader. Make sure that you're connecting with others. And together we're genius, Einstein said. And then, you know, let's all step together and figure out where we can create things beyond our wildest dreams. So no, I totally get it and absolutely love it.

You know, obviously with, you know, all the people in the lounge, you know, the 3-step. And, you know, you also used words I say, FG, which is freaking genius. That's really what it is. It's FG because it's, you know, the step of finding it within yourself. The other, you know, bringing everyone with you. And the third is, you know, I've been well known as the chief troublemaker because I break the rules to create new ones. You can't create next step change or evolution if you have the same mindset. I think that's Einstein also that got you there. And so you gotta take those risks. You've got to, you know, put yourself out there in order to push the envelope. And that's when change happens. So, God, I think that's fantastic. I knew we were— you had me at hello when we met.

We did. We were kind of instant girlfriends. I think we're cut of the same cloth. And I like that F-word too. When I was on the GaryVee Show, it came out of my mouth and most of my clients had never heard me use it. And I got a little slack for that. But you can, you can use it at your own risk. You know, I think what benefited me as a female is a little bit my naivete. And I was never part of big corporations. I was never really I never learned the rules to begin with. And so I just sometimes would unconsciously just break the rules because I didn't know them in the first place. And people would, you know, say, I can't believe you just said that to that person. I'm like, well, it was kind of neutral, but it needed to be pointed out. And I love that. The other thing I love that you said— and we could unpack your statement for a long time— but you talked about confidence. And I answer that question a lot where confidence and ego are different. Ego is I I know the way, people should listen to me. It's like, I'm better, you're less, or I'm a victim. Confidence is, I trust that I have some great things to bring to the table, and I'm confident that together, if we all bring our great stuff to the table, we will organically be able to invent, discover, create amazing things. And so when we talk about ego, a lot of Women don't understand that. I'm not asking you to not come to the table with confidence. I'm asking you to not come to the table with ego. And a lot of ego for women is victim mentality. And they don't get that that's as egotistical as some of our male counterparts at times, where they just believe that they know everything. And so, you know, we get frustrated about mansplaining and guys telling us all that they know. I get frustrated with women playing small because they won't tell us what they know. It's like the opposite of mansplaining. It's like they They won't even bring up their ideas to the table. So getting people to step into power is a big deal.

Well, I think, first of all, you talked about unconsciously breaking the rules. I consciously broke the rules because they just made no sense for me. And I think it's a mindset. And when you were also talking about ego, ego is I, I, I, I. And I think that confidence is me. You first have to believe in yourself and what women in general are all about, and it's the feminine traits. We are collaborative. We are nurturing. We are caregiving. We are collaborative by nature. And it is about the we. And so we have to get comfortable with we. And I is pushing as if you know it all. There is no one person, a movement. And this is what Gloria Steinem says. She didn't— it's not about Gloria. Yeah. She said she did have that vision, but it is about the collective. A movement only happens if everyone comes along, and there is no I in that equation. And I think that that's a really important concept for the best leaders today, in my opinion. And I actually think this is proven, are we leaders, leaders with soft power, leaders with feminine qualities. And there's plenty of men with feminine, which is why we don't talk about the male-female, we talk about the masculine-feminine. There are plenty of women with the masculine— aggressive, assertive, decisive, linear, analytic— and plenty of men with the feminine— nurturing, empathetic, collaborative, passionate, you know, nurturing. These are all characteristics that, you know, really enforce or encourage The we in collaboration.

And I love that because, you know, whether it's our gender or our style, it's on such a spectrum. And with our style, we can turn up or down the volume on different aspects of ourselves, you know, that feminine, that masculine. You know, part of what you call a lot for taking action, and I believe in taking action too, and sometimes the best action is creating spaces for self-reflection. Like, so instead of You know, me knowing what's best for you. It's like me saying, here's some information, but you ask you. And what I love about the Girls Lounge is there's this incredible space created for self-reflection, right? For us to have some space to learn and look at how we can move in the world differently, personally. And you also, with this we concept, you pass the microphone around because, you know, like Gloria said, She's not the movement. She maybe facilitated creating some space for the movement. And I just see that's what you're doing. I spent as much time as I could in the girls' lounge, and it was mind-blowing to see all the women. And I didn't see any men, but I'm sure there might've been some. Well, I saw Gary hold the microphone, but all the women who held that microphone and the passing of the microphone. I mean, we heard from people from the Women's March and the Me Too movement and just incredible people. From Yahoo. I mean, I just, I can't even do justice to the guest list. But what I loved about what you do is you pass that microphone around so that we get a lot of data points. It's like a big crowdsourcing. It's like if I was sitting in that room and I wanted to do a Google search on, you know, any topic, it's like the person showed up live with a microphone in their hand for my Google search. It was amazing.

I think that, you know, one of the things we believe is it's not my lounge and it's not yours. It's ours.

Yeah.

It is our space. And, you know, the goal really is bringing visibility to women around the world that are making a difference and contributing. And each and every one of our voices matter. And so we wanna give the megaphone to all of us. You know, we all matter in this equation. And most importantly, it's this power of collaboration, all of us working together. You know, it unifies us and we get stronger. We are so much better when we're together. Our voices get stronger and louder because it's a confidence moment. And of course, that's how you impact change is when you collectively walk together and activate solutions for change. That's how change happens. And it includes men. We respelled feminism to include the word men, F-E-M-E-N-I-S-M. Modern feminism must include men. Transformation must include all of us. Women are 50% of the population. We can't just talk to one another. We have to bring us all into the equation for change to happen.

I love it. I got my husband one of those shirts, and somebody actually stopped him and said, I think feminism is spelled wrong. And I was able to say, no, that's intentional. And it started a great conversation. On this podcast, I usually ask people about moments where they've gone beyond ego, but everything you've just described is behavior that you've set up and you participate in that, that is beyond ego. If you, you know, could use this particular podcast as just a call to folks about what you would like for them to be reflecting on or top of mind or put their mindshare towards, both men and women, what are some of the key things that you want my listeners just to be thinking about or know about From what you bring to the table on a regular basis across the— not only our nation, but internationally?

Well, thank you. First of all, I just— the first thought I have is I want to go everywhere with you. So take me with you. Once you invite me into your world, you can't get rid of me so fast. I think most importantly, it's not cognitive. It is not a thought process. You know, I is— an ego is something you decide you're going to do, you know, In a cognitive way. For me, it's always been a behavioral— it's been a heartbeat. I say a heartbeat moment. I follow my heart and that's where I end up. I don't know where I'm going to be tomorrow, but I follow my intuition. You know, we always say that female intuition. I always follow my intuition because you can't make that up and you can't rationalize. You follow your heart, which is where the authenticity lives. Because in your mind, you can justify or rationalize, which is how that part of the brain works. And so I think I've always zigged when others zagged because it felt like the path that I needed to go. My direction is certainly not in a textbook because everyone says you've got to fail before you succeed or you need to fail to succeed. I am very unapologetic about my failures. I will share the good, bad, and the ugly, the small and the big. It is what makes me who I am and who I will be. I don't know what tomorrow brings until it happens, but when it does, I know if it feels right. And if it does, I keep going. I think that being better is a mindset. It's a choice. I don't understand the unconscious. We need to be conscious of our unconscious. And it is a choice about being better. It is about confidence to be bold, brave, and fearless and break some rules that don't make sense and create the new ones, or else we will continuously be in a status quo moment, which in my opinion is not working. I think that it's Katharine Hepburn says, if you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun. And girls like to have fun. So let's break rules together and create the new ones. And I think, as Sarah Jessica Parker says, trying to be a man is a waste of a woman. We need to— we need to not apologize for our femininity and our strengths and who we are. We need to own them. We need to bring them front and center. We need to share them. And we need to collaborate with, you know, men and women working together for change to happen. And I think that is our opportunity. I don't see it as a negative, and I don't see it as, you know, a bad thing. I think that this is our moment together to move forward with positivity, with proactivity, with next-step solutions for change and accountability. To ourselves and then collectively to each other to make a difference for this next generation that should not inherit the same issues that we have. Let them make their own new, their own new problems.

Oh my gosh. And now, listeners, you understand why it was love at first sight and first conversation with Shelley Zalis. That is an amazing pep talk. There's just so much I love about what you've said. And mostly I love that you are so willing to be vulnerable and out there and just normalize what real life is so that we all can drop our neurosis and just say, let's go for it. And if it needs adapting, we'll adapt, but we will figure this out and take action. When I was a little girl, I got obsessed with playing the piano and I talked my mom into lessons. They said I was too young. I took lessons. I wanted to do a recital and I picked out this sheet music called Amazing Grace. And my mom loved that song. It was the first thing I played when I was like 4 years old on my recital. And when she passed, she wanted me to sing that to her when she was passing. And I asked her why she always loved that song. And I thought it was because I had played it when I was little. And she said, no, I just always have loved that song. And I wanted to explain to her it was like about the slave trade. And I said, but Mom, why do you love the song Amazing Grace? And she said, my whole life philosophy is if you surround yourself with enough amazing women, your life will be graced. And that blew me away. My mom was very much a feminist in the '70s and very successful businesswoman and mother of 7 kids. And when I met you, you like channel my mother. She just wasn't about rules and she was breaking them. And for that, I thank you that you're one of those amazing women I now have in my life. And please, listeners, check out The Female Quotient. Where can they Just join the movement and learn more and become part of this cool thing. Shelly, where would you have them go?

Well, first of all, thank you, Sy. You could go to www.thefemalequotient.com. You can follow us @WeAreTFQ or @ShellyZalis. And join us, and you are welcome to anywhere and And every place we go, anywhere and everywhere. So, you know, come join the movement and, and most importantly, believe in yourself and inspire others and, and follow Sy wherever she goes. And also, thank you, Gary Vee, for introducing me to such an incredible woman that is now a sister.

Awesome. Thank you. And that's another case on, you know, Gary's one of those guys has a lot of feminine qualities. He really wants to connect people and, and really build on people's success. So I will see you in France in a month and a half and we'll cause some trouble there. I'm in.

Awesome. Fantastic. Better together.

Perfect. Thank you, Shelly. I know you're traveling a bunch, so be safe. And I can't wait to talk to you again. We're going to sign off. And I always sign off with an assignment. And Shelly gave you a ton of assignments about Go Be Great. So if you want to know what your assignment is, rewind this podcast the last 10 minutes, re-listen to it, and just do one of those things that Shelley has put out there in front of you. So thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining the episode today. If you're loving this podcast, just make sure that you check me out on Facebook and Instagram, and especially YouTube.