Bonus Episode: Joel Block, finance and sales expert, professional speaker

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Sy Wakeman. Listeners, I am so excited to bring you a topic that we have not even entered into before on the No Ego Podcast, and it's the topic of money. So many of you ask about having a seat at the table. And if you aren't adding value and understanding money and really getting the inside track, you're not gonna get a seat at the table just by the position you hold. So, I'm bringing to you a colleague and friend and member of my mastermind group, Joel Block. Now, he has a lot of titles, but my favorite one is he is the Hedge Fund Houdini. So, this guy runs hedge funds and has done his own startup and sold it off. And, but what I love about Joel is he's the guy who can demystify this mystery of money. So welcome, Joel. I'm so glad to have you on.

Sai, thank you very much. How are you?

I'm doing, I'm doing great. I am so excited to bring some of our offline conversations online because I think when you and I met, it was like an instant hit off because while everybody's talking marketing and sales and you and I were looking at each other, it's like, it's money. It's It's how you use money. It's, you gotta get in the inside track. Now, I don't claim to be there, but I know you are there. And I can teach people all day long to be reality-based and move beyond ego. But if you don't have your basic financial acumen, plus, plus, plus, you're not gonna be successful in your position. So I wanted you to start us out demystifying money so that folks can really add tremendous value to their workplace. So, a little bit about yourself. What's your path been? I haven't given it justice because you've done so many great things. So,

well, I started out in the CPA business as a youngster, but it didn't work out. I wasn't really destined to be a CPA. I didn't have the patience. I didn't have the right handwriting. I just— it just wasn't for me. I was really, you know, I'm a salesman. I love to be out with people. I love to make deals. And, you know, and that ended up being my path. But Being trained as a young CPA in the tax world and the audit world at PricewaterhouseCoopers was an extraordinary experience and it was great for me and it was a great firm and they gave me my start. And then I, the last account there was a giant real estate syndicator, which is a company that puts together investments. And my job with an army of other guys was to do the tax work for 500 partnerships. And even though I hated doing the tax work, I love reading the partnership agreements and I thought, you know, this is for me. So I quit the firm and went into the real estate syndication business. And me and another young guy, we found a couple buildings and we tied them up and then we ran around town, got some investors and we ended up doing 8 deals over the next 4 years. And then I fell into a venture capital transaction shortly after that. This is about 1990 where me and another guy invented the concept of delivering stock quotes to investors by fax. And believe it or not, in the 1990s, not everybody had a fax machine, but we got this big company to get behind us and we got a giant company on Wall Street Street to buy subscriptions. And we got 35 of the biggest newspapers in the country to run ads in their newspapers for this service. And it was a great service. It was a very, very leading-edge deal. And we ended up selling that company to a Fortune 500 company a couple of years later. So I've been down the entrepreneur path. I've been inside the biggest corporations at the highest level of management. And I've been with the little companies. And the little companies and big companies work together in a very excellent and symbiotic way. Sometimes. And, you know, and then I've just— since that transaction, I've been in the venture capital business buying and selling companies and advising companies. And then about 6 or 8 years ago, I started a hedge fund and we bought— started buying distressed real estate. So more or less, that's my business.

I love it. I love that you're experienced yourself in business. And you know what's funny is I think I remember way back when getting those faxes and taking them into my boss. No, no kidding. My job was delivering

the

faxes.

And then since then, I speak professionally. I address audiences on all kinds of topics related to strategies to help them get the inside track because people in the money business, they are on the inside track and they just do things differently than other people. I mean, there are reasons why professional investors make more money in 5 days than other people make in 5 years. And I want retail people to understand that. I want people to understand what it is because it's not out of the realm that other people couldn't do the same thing. So, maybe they couldn't do it quite the same way, but they can do a lot better than how they do now. And that applies to companies. I don't care if you're the biggest Fortune 500 company. Sometimes these big companies get so focused on what they're doing that a new fresh set of eyes from a totally different perspective really helps them.

And I've seen that time after time in working with folks. There's a CEO who was a CFO, but a great money guy. And when he would talk, It was just soothing to me when he drew his picture of the business and where it could go. Or even just— I've worked with so many companies where even just someone restructuring debt or put that company in a totally different position to move forward. And there's just a way that money people think that the rest of us don't think. And I want our listeners to, to be able to hear from you because when we feel inadequate or incompetent, or we just aren't even aware of information, is a key time that we can get into ego to either avoid it or, you know, judge it or discount it and really get defensive around it. And I think a lot of us, not only do we just not talk about money, like in our personal lives, and it's just kind of taboo, but as you grow up professionally in, in business, people just aren't giving you this clarity around kind of what is the, you know, the line to money as you talk about. And so if you were going to just preach and teach us for a little bit. Yeah. What do we need to know? What are some of the basics when you're out as a keynote speaker? And he's a phenomenal speaker, folks. This is a great program to bring into your companies. But what are you out helping those of us that need that inside knowledge? What do

you— You know, let's, let's start with a simple thing that, you know, money is— there's one layer is what you see and the underneath layer you don't see. And that's the part that people need to understand because Because most people don't understand what they don't see, it makes it very hard for them to kind of connect with the topic. So let me first explain something about the character of money. You know, most people think, well, what do you mean character of money? There's like, there's only one character. It's like green, it's in your pocket. But let's say I put it like this. Sai, let's say that I took a $100 bill out of my pocket and I put it in the bank. What would the bank statement say at the end of the month?

I think it would say $100 and—

No, it would say $100, right? Forget about interest. Just— it

would say $100. Okay, yes, it would say $100.

Right, just it would say $100. Now let's say that you loaned me $100 and I put that $100 bill in the bank. What would the bank statement say?

$100.

Exactly. So they would both say $100, but one is borrowed money, one is my money, and you can't tell which one's which. And that's what's so confusing about money is that just because you see it doesn't mean that it's real. And you know this about your friends and your colleagues. I mean, there are people that are wearing fancy clothes. Of course, they owe the credit card a zillion dollars because they don't have the money to buy all what they do. But that's the power of the understanding of money is that when you understand how it works, you know, you kind of begin to ask, well, gee, who owns that money? Do I own the money? Does somebody else own the money? And there are lots of other elements of this. And in fact, that's why the tax code is so complicated is because the government is very, very sensitive to the character of money. And there are hundreds of different kinds of money out there. I mean, hundreds of different kinds. Most people have a hard time imagining more than 1, 2, or 3. But there are hundreds and the government has, you have to report to the government all the different kinds because they're all taxed in different ways. And that is kind of what makes money complicated. So it doesn't have to be terribly complicated and we can make it more simple. We can demystify the mystery of money, but you have to understand that there's a lot more than meets the eye. That's step one.

And I love what you're saying because as you start to understand that money has different characters, you get more sophisticated in what might be judgment in the workplace. So when people see someone— I had a client recently that bought naming rights for a sports arena, which is awesome for their strategy. It's a super cool idea. And immediately employees were mad because they could have given us raises instead. And just not understanding the character of money and the difference even between capital and operation. I mean, just At a basic level, they're angry because they really thought the money used for one thing could just be instantly transferred and meant the same tax-wise for another. And so, a lot of times when I see people in the ego and judging and mad about decisions, they wouldn't have anything to be angry about if they understood more about money.

Yeah. Well, listen, I think that this ties in so closely to your message. Money in corporations is put into buckets, and those buckets are frequently called budgets. And so there are capital buckets, and money that's in a capital bucket can't be used for operating activities. It has to be used for just for long-term capital activities. In the situation you're talking about, those employees wanted, you know, they wanted the money, but that's a short-term thing. And what the company is saying, well, gee, maybe instead of giving the money out in the short term, maybe we can invest it into these naming rights, which would be better for our company in the long run so that all of us make more money in the long run. Now, you know, owning stock is a long-run thing. You know, getting a salary is a short-run thing. So if the employees don't have any connection to the long run, then maybe they don't have an incentive to root for the long run. I mean, maybe they only have an incentive— and that's a company shortfall that a lot of companies need to help their employees understand the short run, the long run, and, you know, getting everybody on the same side of the table in all these different instances, which unfortunately many times companies and their teams are not always on the same side of the table.

So true. So true. So money has character. What else?

You know, there are lots of different ways to repurpose assets in ways that will help companies to make more money. So, in other words, let's say, for example, you know, you're really good at making money one way. You could repurpose that same activity into another marketplace. You could repurpose it into a different product type. If you change it from a service into a license or into something else. So, you can— there's lots of different ways that you can reposition and you move things around. And again, It has to do with understanding the kind of the character, the basics of what the money is so that you can move forward with that. And that's really kind of at the heart of this.

So, where are people most confused about money as professionals that really want to add significant value, great ideas, not just show up as the HR person or as the salesperson, but Where are some of the common confusions or missteps or missed opportunities?

The concept of adding value, that is such a great question. So, let's talk about that for a minute because value is a very interesting thing, very well misunderstood. Value, the value that I bring to the table is not really something that I can personally assess. You have to assess the value that you get from me. So, if you get a lot of value, I should get something less than what you got. I should never get more than what you got. So, in other words, if I'm the one that's providing the value, I should always get paid something less than whatever you got. So, it's not an even trade. And so, I mean, I'm talking about in a company type of environment. So, it's not a one-for-one kind of arrangement necessarily. And

here's just right there is where people get really hooked. Like, I brought in $100,000 worth of business, I should have $100,000 bonus. It's like, well, then that's not value, right?

Exactly. So

that's a pass-through,

right? Exactly. So think of it like this. Um, in a, in a professional services firm like an accounting firm, they tend to work on like 3 to 1. In a, in a company, let's say that the company that you work for has a net profit of 5%, which is kind of typical between, uh, you know, 2 and 10% is kind of normal for companies to generate as a net profit. So, let's say that your company generates 5% net profit. Well, that's 20 to 1. That means that for every— when $100,000 comes in, they're going to actually net, net, net, they're going to get 5% or $5,000. So, what should your compensation be? Well, it should be, you know, somewhere, you know, in that $95,000 of expenses is going to be the compensation that the salesperson is going to get for that sale. Now, Remember, it costs something to make the product that you're selling. So, that's got to come out of it. There's overhead. You know, there's insurance and there's taxes and there's all kinds of things that have to happen. And there's a lot of support people. You're not the only person in the whole company that needs to get paid. And so, for all those reasons, the salesperson is going to get some fraction of that 95% of the expenses that it costs to make the product. And when employees understand this, they really better understand where they fit And why the company does the things that it does. A lot of times, to your point where people just don't know, you know, they'll kind of jump to conclusions, you know, that, well, the boss is getting so much and all these other people are getting so much and they keep the money and we don't get any. It takes a lot of different people to make the machine work. And companies are like big machines. The accounting department does its job and that wheel's spinning and the sales department does its job and that wheel's spinning. And so all the different You know, people are doing their jobs, and that's what makes the whole system work so smoothly. And big companies are really, really good at running those machines and making that work. And so, you know, every person is one piece of the motor that makes the machine work, and you have to think of yourself that way. And the more value you bring, the more you're worth, and you can ask for more. The more value you bring, the more knowledge you bring, the more strategy and ideas you bring, The more powerful you become as an influence in the organization and somebody who they want to have a seat at the table because you're somebody that brings so much value to the table where you're sitting. And then you can interact at a high level with the executives and other people that you're with. So, you know, a lot of places where I go, they say, how can we get a seat at the table? Well, the way that you do that is by, you know, stretching upward and developing and delivering more and better ideas. And the way that you do that is by really understanding some very basic mechanical things about the business, about the resources that it takes, about the money, and the way that everything moves inside the organization. And once you understand those things, then you can really be a powerful contributor.

And I think that it's so important to get grounded in the reality because a lot of people come forward with ideas really thinking outside the box, and they're so frustrated when they're dismissed. But if you can't come up with an idea that actually works within the construct of how money works, then you're actually suggesting things that aren't natural or impossible or aren't natural or possible or easy. And I think that's what hurts credibility a lot is when people come forward with ideas that they really just don't understand some of the constraints. A different example, but I have many people all the time really focus on what they want their work environment to be like. Like, we want, you know, beer on tap and we want, You know, fresh-made snacks, and we want this and we want that. And you know what? I want you to have all of that too. And maybe though, when you realize, do you want an increase in, you know, bonus, or do you want snacks? People are like, well, I would forego the snacks, right? But they just don't even do the math of how connected those things are. Or I just recently talked to somebody, and you're talking bigger concepts, but I talked to somebody who in healthcare is like, I'm gonna go to a different hospital because they pay $2 an hour more. And I'm like, well, can you vest? What's your 401? Like, what? They just hadn't done the math of the compensation and looked at that over a 5-year term. It was for today, I'm leaving for $2 more an hour. And because I know how businesses run, I'm always skeptical of leaving for more money because we all are working with the same reimbursement levels. We're working with the same costs. Like, there is no magic, I'll make more money. You really have to do some math to make sure that that's true. Well,

Well, listen, when I remember you're saying that everybody wants more stuff and I remember when we were kids, there were certain kids that would run for like some office and they'd say, I'm going to be putting soda in the drinking fountains. Don't you remember those kids that always used to say that? And so, that's what you have to be aware of when you're looking for a new job is what's really real and what's really true and is it really going to be that way when you get there? There's a certain amount of money that can be allocated for the things you're talking about, and that's correct. And it might be in the form of cash, it might be in the form of 401, it might be in the form of medical reimbursements or healthcare or other things. And some have a better package and worse, and you have to add all the pieces together and figure out what you're going to do. And again, it comes back to financial literacy and understanding a little bit about the value of those different things. And by the way, those things are all taxed differently. So you have to get— A little bit of help from a tax advisor to figure out, you know, what makes you better off and where you're at.

And I think many of us too late in life look for great advisors. I had amazing parents, both entrepreneurs, not well-educated, but really good business people. And I remember when I graduated from high school, I was the first kid to ever go to college. My mom, who's a business person, said, learn to bartend and get your life insurance license because you'll always make a living, get licensed in the state of Iowa, and you can always sell life insurance and you can always bartend. And then as I went further in my life, she said, now you need to get a banker and a lawyer and an accountant. And I'm like, mom, I just don't even make that much money. She said, right now, have relationships with a banker that aren't your policeman. They don't tell you no, they tell you how. And I remember from a very early age, just I was taking a lot of advice before I made decisions just on a yearly basis, basically going for life counseling and life coaching to a lawyer, a banker, and a financial advisor. And it's made all the difference in my life and how I've run my business from day one.

Absolutely. Absolutely. The only thing I would tell you though is that you have to be a little bit careful about what advice you ask for and how you take that advice. In other words, you ask lawyers for legal advice, you ask accountants for financial advice. You ask bankers for certain kinds of financial advice, but you might also need business advisors who provide business advice because business advisors and CPAs are not necessarily the same. A lot of times attorneys will jump in and start giving business advice, which is not their job. It's not what they're licensed to do. It's not even necessarily what they're good to do. So, you know, you have to just be a little careful about who you get your advice from, because if you take it too literally, you know, and the other thing is that you should really have these people on a team where they know each other so that they're not giving you conflicting information.

Exactly. And that's what we did from the time my first business was opening up a bed and breakfast. And, you know, those meetings were everybody around the table so that, you know, we were getting some decent advice. And I think choosing people that tell you how you can rather than why you can't are important, folks, because anything can be done. You can mitigate the risk of anything. And there's a lot of people that would tell you why you shouldn't or why you can't, but telling you what it would take to do it, then you may decide not to. But other places people have major confusion, or if you were preaching to my audience that you'd say, here's the, you know, top things you need to know about money, how it works.

Well, you know, first of all, what I would tell you is that What most people think of as money is personal financial planning. I'm not involved in personal financial planning. That's life insurance. Those are stockbrokers. That's different. I work on business money, which is profit and capital. And, you know, it's the money that makes businesses work. So that's kind of where I operate. And I stay very focused on that. The world of financial planning is also very complicated, but it's a different world. And so let's not go there. But let's just say that in the world—

And to your point too, make sure you're not using your financial planners to give you business advice.

Well, right. Exactly. Now, their job is to take the money you make at work or wherever you get it and to help you invest it properly so you have the money for the long term. They're the ones that are going to help you grow your nest egg. And that's really important. So you want to be very careful about that. Another, you know, I would tell you, I'm looking at a couple of different things that, you know, I would tell you a couple things that are important in business, kind of staying on the topic of character of money and, you know, the whole thing that, you know, not all money is the same shade. Well, what I always say is this, not all money is the same shade of green. Some money is better than other money. And one of the great stories is in 1992 when Ross Perot was running for president against President Clinton, you know, there was somebody that, you know, that said, well, Well, what are your ideas? He said, well, I think that what we should do is we should make sure that in our country, we're building semiconductor chips. And some other person running against him said, eh, semiconductor chips, potato chips, chips are chips, they're all the same. And he was very brilliant and he said, no, they're not all the same. Potato chips, a whole bag of them is 50 cents. Computer chips are worth thousands of dollars and we sell palletfuls of them. And so, we employ a lot of people. They take scientists and other people, that some things are inherently better than others. And just because at the end of the day, a truckload of stuff is $50,000 doesn't mean they're both the same. The $50,000 of potato chips might have a 10% margin, but the $50,000 of semiconductors might have a 50% margin. It might, you know, where you have that much leftover money. And so the reason for that is because mature businesses all of the profit gets squeezed out just because of competition. But in a brand new market, like at that time semiconductors and chips and wafers and those things were all relatively new, there wasn't so much competition, so pricing was higher. It hadn't matured yet. So you really— that's another thing when you're doing your pricing and you're thinking through these issues is you really have to understand what are you selling, what are the margins on these different things, And different products have different value in their lifecycle. Just by the way, and employees have different value in their lifecycle. Hopefully, they have more value the second half of their career than they did in the first half because they've been accumulating lots and lots of skills and lots of value. I mean, there are specific reasons why people are worth more as they move through their career. And if people understood that part better, not only how they can extract the value from the company, but how they can contribute to the company and how they can improve themselves and so forth. Those are all very critical skills. And these are— these things really fall into the category of attitude about money and perspective about money. And again, I'm talking about positive business money, you know, which is, which is really profit. In fact, my whole thing is, you know, strategies to get the inside track, which we call Profit from the Inside. And, and so it's all about, you know, the attitude and perspective of how you move money around to be better off. And some people are really good at it, as you can tell.

Absolutely. So, talk more to me about attitude and perspective and profit from the inside. Do you have some kind of overarching just advice, recommendations, or things to be thinking about when it comes to attitude and perspective?

Well, listen, there's a lot of different things. I mean, there's In our society, money is a pretty taboo thing and people are afraid to talk about it. Me, it's very natural. I talk about it all day long. I'm not embarrassed to ask people questions. Now, I don't ask people questions willy-nilly, but if I have a need to know, I'm not embarrassed to ask. It's not like that different from going to the doctor. You go to the doctor, the doctor asks you some questions. They're not things that the rest of us would talk about, but that's what the doctor does. And it's sort of the same thing in a financial sense. And so, you know, there really, there are a lot of things that you can do to protect yourself. And there's, you know, what I would say, for example, here's, here's an example of an attitude. I always think that money follows expertise. You have to have an attitude of making yourself an expert. And once you're an expert, you're in a position to really command a lot. Now, that doesn't apply only to people. But also to the collection of people which are called companies. And the collective experience, expertise, background, training that a pool of people have in a company is worth a lot to the marketplace, especially in professional services firms and different kinds of environments. Like if you've got a lot of scientists that are working in an environment, that's very powerful and very valuable to the marketplace. And the stock market will respond to that because the stock market looks at all of those kinds of things So, you know, you really— that's a perspective, you know, it's an attitude that you have to make it your goal to be an expert at the kinds of things that you do. You know, thinking about how you get paid, you know, let's take a look. Here's another one. There's always a lot of discussion about whether a company should pay commission or whether they should advertise and pay no commission and just have order takers. And there's a lot of debate about these kinds of things in the sales world. And, you know, at the end of the day, Early stage companies try to get people to sell for them. They give them no base. They put all the risk on that person. And I always ask people, hey, listen, if you had all the money in the world, would you do it that way? And they say, no, no, if I had all the money in the world, I would just buy advertising and I wouldn't pay the salespeople anything. So depending on, again, where you are on the continuum is how you make this decision. Now, I would never say to somebody, I'm gonna just have you be an order taker and put all the money advertising. I always think people need to have bonuses. They need to be on the same side of the table. They need to have some incentives. I just, I believe that about people. I think it's healthy for them. I think that if people don't care about incentives, then they're probably not the right people to be doing that kind of job. But, you know, in general, as the product matures, as the company gets bigger, they move away from commissions, they move toward advertising. So this, all these different things kind of work on a continuum. And most people, they just, I don't know that they think about it that way. But that's how I look at it.

I love it. These are great things I think our listeners can really use. So when you think about money follows expertise, it is on us to not only get expertise, but make sure it continues to be relevant expertise, which when we talk about being ready for what's next, it's all about scanning the horizon and figuring out where I can leverage my expertise, but stay relevant and apply it to new situations.

And we also have to, you know, be good marketers. Which means that we let people know that we're experts in these things. So, you know, it's, you know, you don't want to be too boastful. But you also, it's not a bad thing once in a while to pound your chest just a little and make sure that people around you know what you're good at.

Exactly. And not only know what you're good at or what your knowledge is, but what results you've delivered. I love Ray Dalio's work, Principles. And he is very transparent around people's scorecards. Like, When they've given input, has it been correct and has it paid off? And people have kind of a baseball scorecard for that. I also think that so much could be taken less personally when we understand where a company is on the lifecycle and how money works and where they are. So when I was a high-paid salesperson, as that company matures and they're doing more and more in sales support and inbound calling, rather than being so personal about how they don't value me anymore, it's like, well, no, the company grew and they're able to move their product in a variety of ways and channels. And it's not personal. It's just about a smarter way to do things. And I think people can either resist that, or once they know that that's the reality, position themselves either for the next company Newer in their life cycle that needs that type of sales. Or they can continue to grow and become relevant themselves. But most people, rather than understanding how the world works or how reality works, they get mad at it, take it personal, and resist it.

Yeah. And you can understand that certainly. But when you really take a step back and you understand life cycles and how things tend to work, it makes a lot of sense. Now, that doesn't make it any easier for a salesperson. whose value is decreasing. But that goes back to your point of staying relevant. If a company is outgrowing the salesperson because they're moving in a different direction, then that salesperson has to be aware that this cycle is going to happen and they need to prepare for that either by making other arrangements, moving into a different division. I'll give you, for example, I'm a very strong seller of ideas at an early stage. And I just know that I'm not a good seller at the, you know, over the long term at the later stages. And so, because I like the challenge of the earlier stage sale. So I always look for things at a certain place. I'm very crystal clear about what I'm good at. And I recognize right away if the world is moving away from me and if I need to reposition myself because of what I know I'm good at and I know how to plug that in. And you have to really know yourself. And you have to really get good clarity. And so then it's not even about money anymore. Now it's, you know, money kind of makes you understand the topic, but then maybe you can join a mastermind, you can get with other people, you can work together and you can help each other to really get good at what needs to happen. And that's the name of the game. And, you know, listen, we have to work together. Maybe people can't do that inside of companies because confidentiality and things, but Find some friends that are outside of those companies where you can talk candidly about what your skills are. Have people point out to you things that they notice about you. And, you know, again, at the end of the day, this is a strange thing for somebody in the money business today. I'm going to say, I'm just going to warn you, you know, at the end of the day, business is not about money. At the end of the day, business is about people and people make money. That's how it works. But you have to understand—

And I would add to that, that business is not about money. It's about alignment of people. It's about great people aligned. When I would make my budget or when I would make, you know, my goals measured by money, to me that was just a measurement of the alignment of my people. Um, as a leader, I didn't need to go out and figure out how to cut costs and make more money. I needed to figure out how to align my people with clarity around What we're expected to deliver with what efficiency.

Well, listen, that's a great clarification. And so, at the end of the day, everybody thinks business is about money. It's not. It's really about people that are working in harmony and alignment that are getting things done as a team. And the scorecard is the money. I mean, that's really the way it is. And so, if you've got great people who are doing great things, They can make you all the money that you want. And if you don't— so truthfully, I never think of my message as an HR message like yours is. But you know what? The truth is that they are very tightly intertwined and you cannot separate them because they're just integral to each other. And so really, the world needs to hear both of these messages in order to really be optimized.

I think so. And I think we get off track focusing on the money rather than the people, because I'll see people in their strategic plans set goals like, our goal is to, you know, make $5 million. And I'm like, well, no one gets up in the morning to make you $5 million. Like, that's not even a goal. But focusing our goals on our goal is clean water for the world. And if we had $5 million, We could invest in that. You know, that the goal is some difference we can, we can make.

Well, you know, that, that's a whole other discussion. I, I think about those things a little differently. Uh, to me, clean water, you know, the things you're talking about, that's a vision. And that is, that's the kind of thing that aligns people. People love vision. They want to, they want to know we're going somewhere, we're doing something. When I hear financial people blurt out a number like make $5 million Or tell the salespeople that they have to sell $5 million. It's completely arbitrary. Expenses— the reason that accountants focus on expenses is because expenses are controllable. They're not that hard to deal with. Revenue, on the other hand, is a whole other animal. And I really come from the revenue side. I love revenue. I love working on revenue, selling. And selling and revenue are not identical. Selling is actually ringing the cash register. Marketing is igniting interest. And revenue is kind of the whole umbrella of making money come in and pricing and all the other stuff. And, and there, this whole world is a world that very few people really understand very well. And, and we all need to understand it better because at the end of the day, the more money that comes into a company, the more flexibility the company has, the more longevity it has, the better it can take care of its people. And frankly, the more fun work is when, when, when there's money in the household and money in the In the job, money in the workplace, and so forth, life is more fun.

I love it. And I know we're nearing the end, but you can elaborate on that all you want to. We will take the time because I think for me, my past history is meeting with people, usually accountants, when I was in hospital administration, focusing on expenses, expenses, expenses. And I have to admit, my brain doesn't even work that way. I'm like less Let's focus on revenue. I more am wired to be the rainmaker. I'm like, you know what? If we're growing and prospering, should we look at efficiency? Yes, but we're not going to grow by cutting expenses. It's like, let's grow through innovation and through new markets and through disruption. And that's the stuff that excites me.

Well, and here's the thing is that growth And selling, when you know, really requires getting another person to say yes. So you have to get them to see the world the way you see the world, or you know, you have to kind of have some alignment in the way that you see things in order for that person to say yes. People that work on the expense side tend not to understand and be able to deal with the revenue side quite the same way. And you know, salespeople—it's it's they have to be upbeat people because they're. They're convincing other people to see the world the way they see it. They want to get alignment between people. They're in a people business. So it's much easier to cut expenses than it is to drive revenue. The innovation cycle's hard. Disruption is complicated. Just selling is complicated. Pricing, marketing, those are very complicated things. Getting a little bit of mindshare, owning a little bit of real estate in somebody's mind is very difficult. Especially in the world where we live now. So for all those reasons, listen, people who work on the expense side are very important people because if we didn't have people controlling it, I'm just saying it's a different skill and a very difficult skill to work on the revenue side. And that's pretty much where I've spent my career. But that being said, again, it all comes back to money. But inside the money business, like in my fund, I'm the capital raiser. I'm not the one that deploys most of the capital.

Perfect. So if people want to really up their game, they want to be part of this inside track that so many people in the finance world are like, how does the layperson plug in to get more on the inside track and be able to up their game at work?

Well, listen, if somebody wants to have a private conversation with me and ask some private questions, I mean, I'll give my personal information here. People can reach out to me. My name is Joel Block, B-L-O-C-K. The website is joelblock.com. You know, I speak to companies. I do strategic advisory. I run mastermind groups for senior executives. And so, if you're interested in talking, that's fine. You can reach me directly by phone, 818-917-0670, and by email at joel@bullseyecap.com. bullseyecap.com, bullseye, B-U-L-L-S-E-Y-E, cap as in capital, dot com. And, you know, feel free to reach out, and if I can be helpful, I certainly will be.

We appreciate it. Anything we didn't cover you were hoping to let my listeners in on, any concept?

You know, maybe we'll do a follow-up, and if people have some questions— and this is the kind of thing I would love to respond to, questions that people have about money, because It's hard for me to predict the kinds of things that people are concerned about. So I would really prefer if they wrote in a question or 2 or 5 or 10 and you want to get back in touch, Sai, we can have a follow-up.

Sounds awesome. So I always kind of end with an assignment. And one of the things that I want all of my listeners to do is really self-reflect on your own financial acumen, not the basics, not your personal personal finances. Hopefully all those are great. But really, do you understand how money flows in your company? What the different types of money are? What's more valuable and what's not? And really get yourself up to date on it. And then here's your major assignment: put on the calendar a time where you sit down with your team and explain to them how the business works. I can't tell you— we do it quarterly in my company, and I can't tell you The amazing change in behavior I have seen when my people understand how the company works. And it's so simple. I know it because my nose is in it all the time. But when I shared it with them, I started almost experiencing a Shark Tank where they brought me idea after idea after idea that would grow us in the right places after more valuable money and really free us up to do some amazing things. So, if you're feeling as though your people aren't stepping up into greatness. It could be that they don't understand how your organization works. So, it might be a great way to get them beyond the ego with a little bit of knowledge. And Joel, thank you for coming on. And we'll see what questions we get and take you up on that offer. Thank you.

Hey, thanks very much, Sy.

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama and End entitlement and transform your world place. I'm Cy Wakeman.