Finding Genius in the Collective - Healthcare Edition

Welcome listeners to another episode of the No Ego Podcast. Those of you know that I am back after my little sabbatical, and I am on a mission, and I am bringing to you people who are joining me on that mission. Mr. Rogers says look for the helpers, and those of us in leadership right now, whether you're in healthcare leadership or world leadership or government leadership or Organizational leadership, we have learned one thing coming out of this health crisis, that this world health crisis, that we cannot do it alone and that our way is no longer working and that we have a lot of folks in a lot of pain and we don't necessarily know the way forward. And the good news is you don't have to do this yourself. Resiliency is not about you stepping up and knowing the answers or being the smartest person in the room or or you having to orchestrate the recovery for people. Leadership Now is all about coming together and finding the genius in the collective. And so I am bringing you people who are out there doing things to help all of us create a better world place and a better workplace. And so I'm so excited to bring 2 of my favorite people to you. Yeah, it's a 2-for-1 deal, folks. I bring in two of my favorite people to you. They're they're two amazing people. One, they're both social workers, and I'm a social worker. So we do have a lot of enlightened answers for all other professions, and we're going to share it with you. But they're two fellow social workers who I've partnered with over the years, and we got together and. I spoke at one of their conferences and people were hurting and they said, you know, it is time that we start a revolution, a recovery revolution. Do you want to be part of that? And I said, heck yes. So with that, I'm bringing to you Melissa Gale and Lori Gunther. They are co-owners of an organization called Sonova. They are— Lori's CEO, Melissa is I love them because they're entrepreneurs, because they're social workers, but also because at Sonova, their whole mission is all about how do we create a culture where leadership is rewarding and desirable nurse leadership? How do we educate and empower and create experiences in community to support leaders? Let's make leadership like. fun again, rewarding, something people want to get into. So without further ado, welcome Lori, welcome Melissa to the podcast.

Thank you, Cy. Thank you, Cy. We're so happy to be here with you today.

I'm going to let each of you just speak a little bit about who you are and your work at Sonova, and then we are going to get into some hot topics about do we help hope make a comeback? How do we lead this revolution of recovery? So, Melissa, do you want to jump in and talk about yourself first? I'm going counterintuitive. Melissa's the quiet, more introvert COO, runs an incredible company, but doesn't often talk first. So I'm calling you on that.

Thank you, Sy. I appreciate you pushing me out of my comfort zone today. So my name is Melissa Gale. I'm the Chief Operating Officer of Sonova Associates. I have a social work background, and I'm just thrilled to partner with Lori to co-own Sonova. I think one of the things that we hear so often is that the best nurses get promoted into leadership positions, yet there's so little training for them. And I'm sure that's very similar around other industries as well. And so what we do at Sonova is provide those educational training tools to help people grow in their leadership. And we've seen just amazing growth among nurse leaders who come to our events and participate in our various activities. It's a great business that we run, and we love the nurses who we support, and it's wonderful to see their growth.

And it is amazing. And what is So telling to me about not just the events you put on, but the curriculum you offer. And we'll get into some programs you offer, but many people act like it's a big mystery. How do we retain nurses and nurse leaders? And how do we empower them? And how do we engage them? And it's not a mystery. These are things that not only can be developed in people, can be taught, but most nurse leaders I've met are the most willing, eager, please feed me. I've never taught a class where they ask for homework and they're like, but what will we do when we're out of class? And so we're here to take away a little bit of this excuse that good leaders are hard to find. There are some ready, willing, and able people out there that need some investment in their development. And oftentimes nurse leaders are the worst enablers because they're like, okay, well, I'll take a job, but I have no funding and no education and no development. But I'm sure I'll succeed in spite of the facts. I talk about succeeding in spite of the facts, but I don't mean it for some folks who overgive and take it to the extreme. I love that you and your organization have shown that investment in nurse leaders in education and community and connecting them makes a difference. Laurie, tell people about yourself and your work in the world and why are you even How did 3 social workers end up basically doing a lot of teaching with nurse leaders?

I don't know. I think it was perfect timing, actually. You know, I think that's what the culture needs. So I'm actually—

We're nurse therapists, nurse leader therapists.

Yeah. I'm actually a crisis counselor by training. And, you know, I got into this work 'cause I was a NICU mom, 'cause I had a baby who was sick. And I got into healthcare 'cause I wanted to make a difference. I was always driven by this idea that I wanted to facilitate change. I've always been an educator on stage. I love feeding off of an audience and really understanding what they need and how to get them what they need. And that's always an evolution. It changes. You can never do the same talk twice, in my opinion, because everything that people need is different. And right now, what nursing leaders need is completely different than what it was 3 years ago or 5 years ago. You know, I came to Sonova, I was sent there because, you know, my, at the time in my position, I was a senior director of strategy and innovation, and I needed leadership training. So they sent me to Sonova. And I remember sitting in the room and our company has a real feel of community where our nurse leaders, whether their hospital sends them or they pay their own way, they come together in a room and the energy and the environment is electric. I mean, you felt it when you came there. It's overwhelming when you get to stand in front of people because they're eager, they want to learn, they want to do better, and they have so much on their shoulders. And so I think when they come into a community of understanding and validation, which we provide, and strategies on how to not just survive but thrive. So what comes next? You know, how do we, how do we create a better environment for our teams, for our staff, for our patients. And, and I think we have the best job in the whole world, the 3 of us really listening and learning and then helping them develop.

I love it. I love it. And the reason I wanted to feature Sonova on the podcast is that you really are a living solution to a lot of not only a big challenge that those of us that are working in healthcare and leading in healthcare have, But you're not here just to talk about the problems. You're a solution. And what I love about it, when I got promoted as a leader, people are like, how can you lead nurses? You're a social worker. And I'm like, I think at this time, people in leadership and nursing leadership need what social workers know. We know a lot about boundaries. We know a lot about loving people up and calling people up. We know about— how to lead or parent in a system that develops others rather than coddles others or disenfranchises others. And so it's not lost on me that the 3 of us as social workers have come in and are working to help nurse leaders. My experience with Sonova— so Sonova for Everybody was an organization that Melissa and Lori later then purchased. And it was focused initially on NICU and perinatal nurse leaders and how to create an environment, as I said in the beginning, that makes leadership rewarding, inspiring, effective, both a job that is doable and a job that's actually enjoyable and a job that has impact, a role that has impact. So the reason I have both of you on is I want to talk about some of the ways through some pretty simple but not easy, um, techniques and, and strategies you have that you've been able to form a community, to feed that community, to empower that community. And, um, and you're achieving some amazing results based on what you're finding in terms of people's resilience and burnout levels and engagement. So as you're in this company listening, what are some of the key things you do that you would recommend organizations do for their nurse leaders or their leaders? What's translatable here?

I think one of the things that we started doing during COVID is our crisis debriefing calls. And that was at a point we were kind of grounded because we are an event-based business, unable to host events. during the height of COVID And one of the first things that Laurie and I did was to open up calls twice a week to our nurse leader community to come in, share what they're seeing, offer solutions and support to one another. And I think that has been incredibly valuable for the nurse leaders in our community to be able to create this sense of belonging, especially during a time that just really upended everything that we did and everything that we knew about our jobs. So, we still continue those, not twice a week anymore, but I think what's so relatable about that across any industry is just providing, you know, support to the people who you serve and opening up venues for them to come together and collaborate and learn from each other. We don't pretend— Laurie and I don't pretend to have all of the solutions. That's not what we're here for. We're here to facilitate and guide.

Which I think is so important because I think an advantage of leading people outside your profession is that you aren't tempted to step in and know best. You just know how to hold space for that. And we found in our research that resiliency was a lot about crowdsourcing, a lot about bringing collective together and finding the genius in the collective. And while other people weren't communicating because they didn't yet know the answers, Sonova went out very quickly and said, we don't pretend to have the answers, but we can bring people together. And together, collectively, we'll be genius and we'll team source. And we know the power of the collective, the geniuses in the collective. And what we found at Reality-Based Leadership in our research is that is exactly the move to make. You just made it intuitively. Most leaders say, well, we, we don't have anything new to tell people, so we'll wait, um, until we know more. And you all said, let's gather together and share, um, you know, what we know, and, and let's brainstorm together, and let's support together. So I think that was a genius idea when you started that very quickly in COVID, the crisis debriefing. Probably with some advice from Lori, the crisis counselor. Did that come out of your background, Lori?

It did. It did. I think we were in crisis. You know, Melissa and I were in crisis. And one thing that I think we've— we like to model is that it's important to have a strong partnership, right? When you are in crisis or if you are a leader in any position, I love the model of having a partner and having someone Who, when you're maybe not at your best, or, you know, when you're a CEO or a COO, it's like the buck stops with you. You know, what's the answer to the question that you have? Yes, we have a board of directors, but it is so, it's so helpful to know that at any given time I can call Melissa and say, okay, we need to work through this. What's our skillset? What do we know for sure? How can we help? This is not— We were fully prepared to lose our business. We knew that that was the potential. I think, Sy, you probably felt the same way, you know, doing what you do. Mm-hmm. We knew that, but we also felt as though there was this really intense need for services where people just said, I don't know what to do. And so we said, how can we use the community that we know is a really strong community? And we're different in that we're not huge like a lot of these associations are where thousands and thousands of people come to our events. No. We're smaller, we're more intimate. There is a level of trust and security and safety in what we do. And there was a lot of, I think, trust in Melissa and I. And what I knew for sure was that we could lead a conversation that was focused on what are you seeing, what are you learning. Say if you're in New York or Seattle or wherever is being really hard hit, tell the rest of us so we cannot make the same mistake or we can learn from you. So often there's competition in leadership, competition between health systems, within even their own teams where people aren't collaborating. And so for us, I think to be fair, Cy, that is why our people wanted you as our keynote return. You know, when we were coming back to in-person, they wanted you. They fought for us to have you because it was forget about your ego. Let's put the drama aside and think about What can we do collectively to heal? But also, we need role strategies and tools moving forward, 100%, because we're feeling a little lost. And I think right now, currently, people are scared. There's a lot of fear in nursing. If I've learned anything over the past 2 months, it's that a lot of them are fear-driven. And so, we need to empower them to overcome that fear to be strong leaders. And I think that's what we're doing together right now.

There's so many fantastic lessons to pull out of there for my leaders. One is let's come together and listen to the needs and meet the needs and figure out how to do it better, you know, more standardized and, you know, more cost-effective later. And I think so many people come up with ideas and edit ideas at the same time, so it really kills the passion. And one of the things that I really love what I saw You all doing is let's come together, let's move beyond ego, let's bring people together and just talk about the knowledge we can share and be what I call tribal in our learning. In that, um, not to— tribal's not here used here as a bias word. It's actually in the learning where if I learn it, how can I share it quickly across so that We don't have to be relearning the same lesson over and over again when we have lives at stake. So bringing people together for that is amazing. The other thing you do, I teach a lot of leaders, is it's called first thought, first call. Pay attention to your first thought, first call when crisis hits. Is your first thought, first call down your function, down the line to your people? Because if it is, you're over-managing and under-leading. If your first thought, first call is to a colleague, to your people at your level, like, let's get our enterprise-wide senior leadership team in a room. Let's talk about not what we're going to do, but how we're going to facilitate good doing. Let's think about how we solve the problem before we solve the problem. Let's dissolve the parts of the problem that aren't relevant and really focus in on what is relevant. Let's agree on how we're going to do this. We're going to go out listening, not telling. That is so important because what I see with senior teams all the time is their first call is to their direct reports instead of to each other. And then what they come up with is a solution that serves them, the ego and the status quo, rather than let's listen to the current need and from that be informed about How to go, how to go forward. So I just think it's so important. Good, good work. What else have you learned? What else have you implemented? How have you created this community of belonging? Because you aren't a community where people pay a membership to get their CEUs. Like, so many big associations in healthcare have become so transactional. They're like, I pay you. Do I have to go to conference, or can you just send me the, the PowerPoint? And what's the easiest way for me to get my CEUs? And even though you're small, I don't think that's your secret, because you've really said, um, don't just buy a membership here. Come, sit, stay. And what I mean by that, you're like, join us and then sit with us and then stay and process and this isn't transactional, this is transformational. You have to be amongst us and interacting with us, and you'll have impact and you'll be impacted, um, by this. It's just a beautiful combination. How have you created such community, do you think? Melissa?

One of the main parts of our conference events is networking. So we spend a lot of time putting people in the same space together so that they can find their tribe. So many people are the only, you know, NICU director or assistant director at their hospital. And so to find somebody with the same, not just same title, but same challenges and come together to find solutions is a really powerful part of our event. So that is exactly why we say you have to come and be a part of it so you can fully understand what this is about. And I think in how we've partnered together with USI and the Reality-Based Nurse Leadership Program is we've really brought a lot of those elements of what we do to bring people together at our events to our training program with you.

Well, and we'll talk about the training program because I just found the perfect partners with you. At first, I want to call out just like what other leaders can do. We are so focused on what is the easiest way we can get ourselves like the training dispersed, or, you know, a lot of us for good reason are no longer, not yet doing like in-person events, but we're asking like, what is the value of bringing people back to work for even just part of the time? What is the value? And I think that the value is, this isn't about individuals, what you get out of it. It's like together, who can we become together? How can we elevate ourselves together? And it's more transformational rather than transactional. I mean, there are tears and laughter and inside jokes and amazing celebrations. Like, this is a close group that you have created, yet it's not a clique. As I watch somebody new come in, they are welcomed with open arms, and the shame is taken away of not knowing or being, you know, worried about not doing the right thing. It's just a really— it's a great community. Lori, what would you add to that? Like, how have you created this community so intentionally?

Well, and I think it's been very intentional, and I think we're— for us, we feel as though, you know, we come from a nonprofit background. So to us, it's about serving the community. And we felt very strongly, for example, during COVID when people would call us on our cell phones, it was It never feels hierarchical in the work that we do. I think the thing that I find most frustrating in our work is when our nurse leaders say, oh, well, their hospital won't pay for them to get education or support. And in some hospitals that are much better funded, or if they're part of a big health system, they can't, you know, well, they don't really support leadership training or development or classes. we can do online or on demand. And I find that really frustrating because the community is what's important. It's coming, it's being together, it's sitting at the table, it's connecting with your peers and understanding that you are not alone. That is a big feeling right now, is that you are not alone. Right. And, you know, that's kind of what we model. Melissa and I are never alone. We are always together. When you see us on stage, we are standing there Together, you know, we're right behind each other. Whoever's talking, there's— you can always— I can always feel Melissa standing behind me. I know I'm not up there alone. And that's what we want for our nurse leaders. So I get really frustrated when there's not an investment from executive leadership in their leaders. I think the manager position is the most difficult. Nurse manager is the most difficult position of leadership in the whole hospital. And yet they feel crunched. They would— they're so selfless in a lot of ways. They'll send their staff nurses to education and conferences, and their senior leaders will have the ability within their budget to invest in their own training. But those sort of managers and directors get left out there, and they're so frustrated. They want help. They need help. And so, for example, with Sonova, one of the things that I'm most proud of was the, the fact that we gave almost $100,000 in scholarships last year to attend events. $100,000. Maybe not the best business decision for 2 small business owners, but we felt like we're not— we don't want to make money necessarily off of our nurse leaders. We can put a model in place that can make our business financially stable right now, but they need help. That is the focus. on what we wanted to do. And I think that's the social work drive in there, is wanting to help them feel like they are enough, feel like they are not alone, and then create opportunities for them to be educated. You know, I know we've talked about— I think executives always come, how do we retain all of our staff? We're dealing— there's a nursing shortage, there's a crisis going on in healthcare. And we're like, well— There's ways to do it. There are ways to do it.

Yeah. Proven basic. But you got to do it. It's like we're so used to getting people who have stayed in the past even when we don't deserve it or free work because the majority of nurse leaders, not all, but are female. And females, women are so good at being willing to do unpaid work. What I've noticed, although I'm all for virtual and we've done great things virtual, that's not what it means for the community, but It's the connection where handing out coursework is just a burden on the individual to absorb it and somehow apply it on their own. Virtual programs can still build community, but that community is like, you aren't alone and you don't have to learn this on your own and you don't have to apply it on your own and you don't have to be brave on your own. And we're all in this together. And that's what we kept in mind when we created the Rally Based Leadership Nurse Leader Program and certification. So let me jump to there because I'm so excited about this. The cool thing that you all did, and I teach the 5 phases of crisis management that we all were trained in, but when COVID first hit, it's like the first thing you need to do is just meet the basic safety needs of your people. And there's a podcast on this model. But that's what Sonova did, textbook. They said, we've got open lines twice a week, call in even if you have nothing to say and you just want to listen to us while you nap. Like, call in, do what you can do. And then I can't be your lifeline, so we're going to connect you to others. That's the second thing you do when there's a crisis going on. We're going to connect you to others so you know you're not alone and you're not dependent on one person to meet your needs. You've got a lot of resources. And then there is that point where we just got to get back to work and get stuff done. But there's the next point that says, what can we radically simplify? What don't we need to bring back? What wasn't working? And then let's start dreaming and scheming about how to build a better workplace. And that is exactly what happened when I had keynoted for you before. It was a love fest then, but before COVID And right after COVID, I came back and I was amazed to see people back in room for the first time after COVID. It's not even after COVID, but people in the room for the first time, tired nurse leaders that, um, you know, had adapted the entire way they worked to accommodate COVID and lots of other factors going on, and they were getting it done. But it was our timeout to say, how do we listen and radically simplify and create a program that will make this better, that we can use what we've learned to emerge evolved, not traumatized. And I remember coming off that stage, I'm like, I love these people and I want to do something to help. And my heart's always been in healthcare, but it was almost like that left my lips. And I think Lori the next day had the program plans. But, um, so what we've done is we came together and I've looked for partners in the past to have a healthcare leader program. But because we're so aligned in need first, figure out business model second, which is what I did during COVID too, just tried to help the people who called, we got together and we launched a Reality-Based Nurse Leadership program as a joint venture between Sonova and Reality-Based Leadership. We had our first cohort And it filled up immediately. The need is out there. There were organizations willing to invest and individuals invest in themselves. And even I'm a little astounded at the outcomes. When you said you wanted to collect some data on a single program, I was like cautious. I'm like, well, a single program of 5 sessions and 5 group coaching, like how much can that really impact people's like bottom line results? And I'm like, yes, let's collect the data. I'm a researcher too, but don't oversell this thing because it depends on so many factors. And yet we found out that's not the case. I mean, we ran our first cohort, we did pre and post survey, and we're a little amazed at how the simple things, but the good things are working. Do you want to speak to that, Lori? We ran this program.

Well, I feel like I'm ready to jump out of my chair, Cyndi. I'm so excited. I called you on Friday and I said, I hope you're sitting down because it's unbelievable what happened. We had 50 slots, we had 57 people sign up, and 57 people showed up every week. That's amazing. Sometimes at, you know, 3 hours out of their day, but they were ready, eager, willing to learn. And then to think, as you know, we just finished our first cohort, We're all sitting there, and as I'm looking through the data with our staff on Friday, I'm like, "Oh my God!" You know what? And Melissa can probably speak more to the data than I can. But you know, I think one of the things was we asked people: Were they looking for another position, or were they going to leave healthcare altogether? Right? That's a really important piece. If if you're going to invest in your team, you know, everybody education is a big investment, right? So anytime I'm selling. you know, an educational opportunity, they're always like, well, what's it going— what's the outcome? What's the ROI, Lori? And so, for this, what was interesting was that, you know, we had, you know, over 94% of people who took this class were not actively looking for a job once the class finished. 94%.

And how many were looking before the class started? Do you know?

Well, we had— I don't actually know that. Now that you're saying that, I think it It was, we had, oh, 25% reported that they were looking to make a job change when they started.

And 94% ended saying that I feel like I can do my job now. And this is 3 months, people. Like, I'm not one to toot my own horn. And people ask the ROI and I'm like, well, what's the ROI of your mother? Like, she's good. Like, I don't know. We know there's a lot of ROI. We've tried to show it in the past, but I don't often toot my own horn because I'm like, you know, I don't want to take all the credit. There's a lot of other things going on. But we did a pretty controlled study, 3 months of time spent with 57 leaders, and 94% at the end of 3 months said their intent was to stay. And I know so many of you are looking for, how do I keep my people? It is development, but not development in a way that burdens them. Develop in a way that empowers them, that gives them an aha. We interrupt their thinking. They're like, oh my gosh, I've been studying the world I've been looking at from the wrong dimension. So we interrupt their thinking and then we reveal a truth. Here's what we know. It's empirical. It's research-based. It's counterintuitive. And then we ask them to try it on for size. It's very interactive. We send them to the community. How can you use this? And then we settled their mind because a lot of times you come out of training and go, that was all good, but it doesn't apply to my daily work and I'll probably never do it. And if I do it, it won't be perfect. And we settled their mind so that they can, without shame, go out and focus on progress, not perfection. And this model that we had just really worked. We'd do a learning session and then a group coaching session and learning session. So that is exciting when it comes to retention. You have other great numbers to share. Melissa, do you want to add to— I'm so excited about these. They actually kind of blow my mind a little bit. I'm like, that's it? In 3 months, we loved people up and called people up, and we have these tangible results? What is wrong with us, like, trying to skimp on learning and development, um, people? So that's, uh, I wanted you to hear how Sonova's rocking it. What other statistics were out there, or Sure.

So I think one of the other areas that was so interesting, we hear so much about engagement among employees and staff, and they're faced with so much right now that can really, you know, counteract that. And I think the program really aided in their engagement with their current position. So over 80% of the people who responded to our survey So they were as or more engaged with their current position after completing the program. And I think it really just provides them with the tools to be able to be an effective leader. We're all talking about leadership and gives them tools that they can finish the class and go and have a conversation with somebody utilizing the tools and techniques that you have been teaching them. And, you know, we've heard, you know, anecdote after anecdote about people with these amazing results. Like, I had this conversation with, you know, a low accountable, and it went so well. And I called the— I loved them up, and I called them up, and they're completely engaged employee now. So we have story after story of that. And the engagement, I think, has been really astounding.

It's been astounding. And one thing I'll admit that we did theoretically to stack the deck in our favor, but you can do the same, is we worked with the willing. These are people who wanted to be here. They had to basically get their own funding. They had to go and pitch this to their leaders and say, here, can you invest in me? And one thing we don't do enough is work with the willing in learning and development. I have a leader, and someone thanked him for providing training for their team, and they said, thank you for investing in us. And he said, it's not an investment right now, it's an expense. Whether or not it's an investment depends on what you do with it. And so people— many people ask me, can you show the ROI on your training? And I ask them, can you show the level of willingness of the people coming into my training? Because if it's It's full-on willingness and high accountables or mid-accountables and, you know, good performers. The ROI is beyond comprehension. But what most people do is they send a mixed group in, and the same behavior won't please a high accountable and a low accountable at the same time. So low accountables will hate the training and resist. High accountables will like the training but go silent. And then you dilute your own ROI. So what I love about our program is even leaders that sent multiple people from their teams, they didn't send us their performance issues. They send us their demoralized high accountables. And that's the population right now. A lot of people are like, I don't want to lose anybody. I'm like, don't make that mistake. You will lose somebody. You have to double down on the low accountables or the high accountables right now. You will lose somebody. I want you to focus on the demoralized mid to high accountables who are weary. And on top of their weariness, they're dealing with some people that aren't civil, that aren't stepping up, that are emotionally blackmailing. So, if we can teach the mid to high accountable leaders techniques to not fight back, not resist the resistors, but to just know how to respond to emotional blackmail, know how to set good boundaries and invite people to join them in delivering great outcomes. These techniques basically got them healthy so that if there was a chance that the person was willing and would come along, they did. And otherwise, people that weren't willing or were resistant revealed themselves, and they had good information to make good choices So I think too many of us have approached training like, if the training's good, it should be able to impact all. And it's not about the training being good, it's about good content getting to willing recipients who are a bit demoralized and definitely a bit in despair. And how can we help hope make a comeback? Help people emerge evolved, not traumatized, and really help those high accountables know there's a way to build great teams and that they're capable of it. I think people started to think they're not capable of it.

Well, and I will say too, for me, I think I understood better the philosophy of leadership that reality-based, you know, leadership is. Like, I understood now what a high accountable is versus a low accountable and how to identify and how to work with them. So, it's more than, you know, I think we've all read your books, but when you're in the problem and you have something happening at work and you're dealing with a low accountable, to be able to sit in a group coaching session with 50 other nurse leaders and Cy Wakeman, and you have a networking opportunity, and we're like, okay, so here's our problem and here's what we did about it. And there was validation and modeling. And solutions. And so I think that was— it was so helpful to understand and also be able to ask questions. But, you know, when one of the other pieces of the data that came out was that, you know, 80% of our people who went through this program felt more confident in their ability to lead their team to positive results. That's incredible. That's incredible. So they felt as though they really had the ability to Understand what you were teaching them and apply it not just to themselves, but to their team. And we got to see that in real time where, you know, they kept coming back with email messages to all of us going, this is life-changing. I realize now what my internal issues are. Lori is like a, you know, a self-helper. Lori? Yes, I'm a fixer. I'm a fixer. I fix everything. I don't ask for help. And now I realize that I need to hold my team more accountable, and here's how I'm going to do it. I think we set so many leaders on the road to recovery. I mean, I think that's what we were hoping to do, but we actually got to watch it happen in real time.

That's what was so cool. And what I want this— I want to bring in on this podcast is for those of you out there banging your heads against the wall, we're a little shocked. It was pretty easy. Work with the willing. Bring them not just intellectual content or a formula, an 8-step coaching model. That's not what they need. They don't need development in that way. They need evolution in that we really talked about self-reflection and do you believe you're worthy and setting boundaries. And we talked about how to question your limiting thoughts and how to edit your story and how to use tools. And, um, there was just so many mental shifts that happened where people got clarity and then got courageous. And, um, that, that was really remarkable to bring forward because the, the message I want you to hear on this podcast is we do have a lot of the answers. And, um, I feel like I've known for a while, which is why Reality Space Reality-Based Leadership is such a sought-after philosophy because it— it— the, the traditional leadership philosophies didn't work 10 years ago, and they definitely aren't working in today's world because they don't take into account how the mind works and how the world works, and they don't skill people up to be, um, self-reflective and clear. And, and we teach people exactly how to do that. So I was a little taken aback at everybody's out looking for how are we going to recover and restore and retain and reengage. And the answers are there and they have been there for a while. It's more doable than you think. And it wasn't just nurse leaders. We had other leaders. A small percentage of other healthcare leaders were involved in the first cohort. The thing that was absolutely amazing was people came back and the chat was lit up. The engagement was really high. People didn't miss a class because they were all like super involved. And that's the key with working with the willing. Think about when you're in a math class and you're super excited about the topic that you're learning, and it's 10 minutes before the class is over and you raise your hand and the whole class groans. Because you're going to ask a question, you dumb down, you shut down. But when you're surrounded with people who are as engaged as you are, you light up. And so I really think that the work people had to do to get involved in the class was powerful. I'm sad that they had to fight so hard for an obvious investment. If somebody comes to me and has a 3-point PowerPoint slideshow about why they want to get $5,000 to develop themselves. I'm like, give them the money. That just shows. But it really was powerful. The willingness was a powerful piece. Work with the willing.

And I think the interesting thing was we had 3 sets of teams that went through, and not all, as you said, not all of them were nurses. But what was interesting too was at the end there was a shared language of understanding and accountability. Where they would be in meetings, and the ones that went through together as a cohort of 10 or 15, they would be sitting in a meeting, and they could lean on each other because they had a new understanding of how to hold people accountable. Or, you know, what does it really look like to lead change? We always say, oh, we're going to lead change and be fearless, but what does that actually mean? Down to the brass tacks, right? When, and I love that saying that, you know, you were saying, you know, well, low accountables, they don't like change. High accountables encourage change. And I'm like, oh, that's, yes. So I think, you know, when, when people went through as a group, they are able, they created a really strong network together of shared language. And when we talk about culture change in general in healthcare, One person is not going to change a culture of an entire healthcare system. So how do we look at that together through the work that we're doing to create— and because I think we're all disruptors, we want to do things differently.

Yeah, we don't have to change the culture. We can just affect our own climate in our area, which is what those teams did.

I just think that we like to think differently. You know, that it's not always what's been handed to you. And so I think a lot of times people come to us or come to you because they want to, to be their own person, right? And they want to learn and do better and do good. And they need— they just need those tools and strategies and that guidebook, and then they can do it.

And the community. I'm not gonna excuse— like, we've had people come through that get the tools, the training, and the guidebook The community is, um, is key because it can't be like, I need my Sai fixed today, or I need, you know, my lawyer Melissa fixed today. It's got to be that I am confident because I am tapped into a collective, and together we are genius. And that's what gave everybody the courage to try on new material, to take risk. And the anecdotal stories were were, were really something. And the way that we've come about this is even disruptive because I talked to so many brilliant CNOs, CHROs, you know, all my human resource folks, and they are finding it so difficult to bring something in at a larger scale. But when people experience reality-based leadership and its effects on a smaller scale, now we're seeing those big rollouts and big systems But this provides a way that you in your own area don't have to wait for the organization to pick the perfect thing and for it to be rolled out over 3 years and for you to eventually get to take the course and maybe the people on your team to take it a year later. Like, this really is the way that you can disrupt that process by saying, you know, we can figure out funding to bring 5 of us through and then 5 of us through. So it was kind of going straight to not bypassing our HR decision makers, they're our fantastic partners, but finding a way that people can offer groups what they need right now, just in time, without having to plan a large-scale rollout, which is really tricky in healthcare.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, it was really phenomenal seeing the small teams, and some of them were, you know, scattered throughout the hospital, some were NICU-based, and just really, really amazing to see what they were able to collaborate on during the sessions. And, you know, I imagine greatness is happening at their units right now.

And we will learn more about that. And they're in progress. It isn't the cure-all, but our tools can get people using all of their intelligence to solve the bigger issues that they're facing. These people are brilliant. We just seem to unleash them. Unfortunately, we are nearing the end of our time. I wanted to bring the Sonova joint project to you and shamelessly promote, if you're in healthcare, this program and all of Sonova's programs. Because so often people ask me, Cy, what can we do right now to help hope they could come back? How can we make sure we don't lose our best leaders? How can we retain our people? How can we avoid burnout? And we have the answer, and I go, "We'll do this." They go, "Besides that, I want something less basic, less." And I'm like, "No, we've known for a long time humans are humans, and they need the same things. And you have to focus on your mid and high accountables. You've got to save the people that are willing to partner with you to be saved and recover. And when you do that in the realm of community." These people will surprise you. They will blow your mind, but they won't blow your mind if you're bringing them experiences where they have to manage part of the class who's in a state of low accountability and it's mandatory training and it's traditional training that seems complex and tools they won't use. Like, give them good content in a supportive community full of willing people where they don't have to manage all the external and people will show up. We had, except for one extraordinary circumstance, we had 100% participation over 3 months. Every single week we got together and no one missed. And when they did miss, they were begging us for the recording and, and all of that good stuff. So I'm looking forward to our next cohort. We're going to keep measuring this. We're going to bring you our To the rest of my audience so that you can duplicate these, replicate these in your own organization. If you want to know more about Sonova and more about the nurse leadership program that we are in partnership on, it's really the one place you can come to get reality-based leadership for nurse and healthcare leaders. We've opened it up to other folks. Lori, how would they do that? How do they find us?

Well, they can visit our website at sonovaassociates.com, and it's everything. All the information will be on the website, all of the data. We're working on putting that up in the next 10 days so that people can see and be able to submit for the return on investment within their systems. And I think this is a great opportunity to engage in a different way with a community around solution-focused leadership.

Awesome, Lori. Thank you so much for what you do. Melissa, what do you want to add to that?

It's been an absolute pleasure, Cy. It's been great talking with you today and just great. I feel like I learned so much during the program, this past program, so it's just an honor.

Fantastic. This, um, series of episodes for the No Ego Podcast, I am bringing you All the helpers, all the people I know who aren't saying, given the circumstances, we're doomed. They're saying, let's listen, let's learn. Given the circumstances, we've got some ways forward, and this thing is solvable. So I always end my podcast with assignment for self-reflection for all of you. I want you to reflect on what answers you have already in front of you. That are there that could help if you fully engaged your willing, ready people, that instead you keep shopping for answers, looking for ones that will help your lowest accountable. Stop it. Find what you have right now in your closet to wear, in your, in your realm that already exists, that is working, and, and use that with your willing. Do not let your unwilling be the ones who are being the evaluators of the tools that you have to offer. So work with the willing and take a look at what is already out there and created and how it could help. And check out Sonova Associates website. Thank you, everybody. I look forward to another session in the next few weeks.