Handling Fake Buy-In From Employees

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reality-Based Leadership Podcast. It's where I am joined by Alex Dorr, the VP of People Evolution at Reality-Based Leadership. I love that title. We don't do people development, we do evolution. And Alex is out there helping people evolve day in and day out. And we come together to have some discussion. We aren't trying to teach or train, You all get that from us in our keynotes and our trainings and our online courses. And we've got so much out there. But in this series, we're coming together to just freeform discuss some concepts that we throw out from the stage or we throw out during our training. And it's our chance to just add some color commentary or fill in around the edges to those topics. And so today, a topic that I think is super important. enough because it is the holy grail, is the topic of buy-in. And one of the things you'll hear us say often is buy-in is a verb. And it's not our job to buy you in. Now, we could probably kill buy-in with ridiculous leadership tactics, but buy-in is a personal contribution that you need as individuals and leaders to Lead with. And buy-in is not conditional. It's not like you come in and buy in as long as the circumstances are perfect. Buy-in is coming to the table knowing the circumstances won't be perfect. And that's exactly where you come in, that you come in with the expertise to succeed in spite of imperfect circumstances. And so buy-in really is the holy grail. And when I'm talking to people about business readiness, Change management is what they're traditionally using, and they're super focusing on awareness. If I just explain to you again why this is necessary and what the burning platform is, then somehow I'll buy you in. And our business readiness is, I'm not going to be your sole source of awareness. You've got shared accountability for that. It's your job to stay relevant, keep up with the times. If you're chronically being shocked by what we're rolling out, if surprised that you didn't see it coming, That's not about us. That's about your lack of keeping up with awareness. So take responsibility for it. But the next step in our work is willingness. And willingness, if you don't have willingness, if you aren't coming with buy-in, it's kind of game over. There's no way I can get you involved in the change efforts knowing that you're not bought in because it's going to stall. out the dream team who bought in and as well on the way to executing a plan. And they don't need their experience to be corrupted by your resistance, which is completely changeable with a simple choice. So that's my introduction to the topic and buy-in. It's something that, like I said, I don't think comes up enough because a lot of people just roll things out. They don't check for buy-in. They're like, get it, got it, good, let's move on. And then they come to me afterwards. And they're like, this change is stalling. Nobody's participating. We're having to roll it out again and again. How should we communicate differently? Or how should we structure it differently? Or should we like revisit our decision? I'm like, no, go back down the pyramid. You don't have buy-in. Work on willingness. But what are you hearing out there, Alex? You actually caused a shift. Why was that a hot topic?

No, just as you said that, you caused a shift. Because when I said it comes up a lot, I think in my head, as I'm training, going through a tool, and I'm like, So we got it going, we got good reflection going, and I'm like, the answer seems obvious, like inside the box, or, you know, I'm looking at it and I'm like, couldn't someone just get better at delegating and this might help with resource issues? Or couldn't we fully use the marketing resources we have that we're not using? It's just silence in there. And then what I then bring up is usually when we go through one of these tools or exercises, it reveals the issue is one of 3 things. It's our skill set. So maybe we don't have the right horsepower or the people with the right specialized skills, or we need to get some training. So it could be skill set issue to solve this goal or problem or move towards it. Is it an approach issue, meaning we're using an old approach for the new reality? But usually if we're sensing silence and we can walk with this for a little bit, it might be revealing a lack of willingness to now do what the organization is asking for. And so when I— when you said that, I'm like, wait, it comes up, I guess, after all of the silence. But it's not being talked about enough. I think you're spot on. Like, we're not talking about— I have to often have to say the dirty little secret as we're competing for other leadership programs is this willingness piece is like you can only work with the willing. And so we can talk about ideas and concepts and change. And but in the end, it's like going right at, are you at least in with the what we're trying to do? You know, as long as it's not illegal, immoral, unethical, can you say yes to the what? That's a good point. There's 100 different tools that we can use to figure out the how. And we have geniuses that work here. But I need you at least to step in, lean into the what. So that's what you got me thinking about. And real quick, I— the reason we bring this up, and Sai and I both get probably way too fired up, is personal accountability is the center of all of reality-based leadership. And, you know, it's the biggest predictor of our happiness and results in our career. And I think the research in locus of control is pretty clear, like academically, sports-wise, career-wise, like it's the biggest predictor um, a high state of accountability to better results and happiness in so many areas. And I thought we'd set the stage with just the 4 factors of accountability and, and a mindset of accountability is really the core thing that we share to set the conversation. And so that first factor, a lot of people think it's about ownership, holding people accountable, extreme ownership, whose butt's on the line. But the biggest first factor that we heard as we interviewed high accountables was this buy-in, just as Sai said, um, commitment. It was— I had the willingness to do what it takes to lean into what we're trying to achieve, basically do whatever it takes as long as it's not illegal, immoral, unethical. But I was all in. And then the second factor is resilience. So I'm all in— buy-in's a verb— and then comes barriers and obstacles. And can I stay the course in the face of obstacles? And we often say, just name it. There's no— it doesn't matter what you commit to, There's going to be hiccups. There's going to be unpreferred realities. There's going to be weird things that come up. Can we stay the course? And I know we'll talk more about it, but resilience is less about the individual and more about our collective relationships and how we can ask for help early and often to be able to say, I'm stuck here. What's your one best tip? And that helps us move through obstacles. And then once you're all in, committed, we have resilience, we're working that list of ideas. Then ownership is a nice conversation about here's what's helping, here's what's hurting, here's my part in it, and here's what I can do differently. And this leads to the 4th factor, which is continuous learning. But the dirty little secret is that's like an energy cycle. And as Sai said, if you don't have willingness or commitment, it's game over because the rest of them get all messy. Resilience goes down, ownership gets into blame. Continuous learning is usually about who failed us and why we always get stuck because of X, Y, and Z. So it really becomes like this, this non-starter if that buy-in piece, um, is fake, if it's conditional, if it's not actually there. And so that's why the question that came up that I wanted Sai to chew on, um, today with me is, what do you do about like this fake buy-in? Or you think people are nodding their heads in the meeting and then you find out the actions are like not much buy-in later. And maybe you hear it some other ways, Sai, about this Um, you know, I just can't— they were— they asked it in the question or the conversation about fake buy-in. So what are your thoughts on all that?

So in the therapy world, we would call that negative compliance, where, um,

oh,

you're, you're saying or doing the right things. Now, if somebody has not been able to consistently take their meds and they're just doing it because you will be mad at them if you don't, I'm okay with negative compliance for a while, as long as the benefit outweighs the negative. So, you know, I've had people on probation and like, I'm only going to take my meds because, you know, perhaps they're experimenting with medications for schizophrenia or something. They're like, I'm only going to take my meds because I know you and my probation officer will, you know, put me back in the pen if we don't. I'm like, I'm good with that today. Like, that's progress. Like, just take your meds because that forms the platform of where we can do more innovative work together, as long as you're willing to stabilize, you know, yourself. And, and we can see if meds are the right answer for you. I'm not saying you have to be on meds. I'm saying give it a fair shot so that we can see if that works for you. It's your life. We're gonna work, you know, with you.

Mm-hmm.

But a lot of times negative compliance, we blame the person giving it. Rather than look at our own techniques for enabling it. So when I have a huddle meeting and I'm like, so we're going to do this today, everybody understands? And I get like, yeah, and a couple of silences. And I assume that's buy-in. That's my first mistake as a leader. I need to go, Sarah, given what I've talked about, how will you adapt your work today? Because I don't need you just to agree with it. I need to thought partner with you where I see you marrying up to what it would What would it look like if you adapted to that buy-in? Or since we need everyone's buy-in, what is your biggest concern with this? And let's work through that concern as simply a risk, you know, negative brainstorming an issue. So just like the stewardess doesn't let you sit in the exit row with a little nod, they say, I want a verbal yes. So a lot of people throw something out there. that they unilaterally announced. It's not iterative. It is the leader doing unto the employees, which automatically negates partnership. While this isn't negotiable and this is what I need, what we can improv on, given this structure, is how we can make that happen with excellence. What's your input from your perspective? So a lot of leaders are using hope as their strategy. They're rolling something out and then they're surprised by Lack of buy-in or commitment. So my first thing is making sure you're having that buy-in. A lot of times that's not to be done in a group meeting. That is, I'm announcing this, and in our one-on-ones this week, that will be the topic. Come to me with a plan on how you're gonna change the way your team functions, how you're gonna change policy procedure to accommodate this. And I really wanna make sure it's something you've thought through. What are you coming with? As a plan to guarantee me that you're all in. I want to know not what it looks like to me. I want to know what it looks like to you. Then I have a stake in the ground. Here's the plan, and I'm seeing behavior that's different from the plan. So let's have a one-on-one and help me with this gap. Here's what you committed to, because without commitment, coaching never happens. So what are you committing to? Here's what I'm seeing. How far off am I? Can you see some of that too? And what's keeping you from keeping your commitment? Because if we don't have a stake in the ground, coaching doesn't happen if it doesn't end with commitment. And the commitment isn't, I'll be watching, or I'll hold you accountable. It's, I will facilitate accountability by first asking for your buy-in. Commitment. Asking for your plan. And then monitoring your plan with you and seeing the results. And one of the things people make the mistake of is they think buy-in is a one-time commitment.

Yeah.

But buy-in really is an ongoing commitment. And so a lot of my one-on-ones with folks were, today, what's your level of buy-in? Where do you find yourself withholding buy-in? Because that's a tantrum. That's what the ego does. The ego punishes people by withholding buy-in, and it's your responsibility to come to work bought in and willing to freely give your effort towards our goals. And a lot of people want it both ways. I don't want to freely give my effort. I'll buy in as long as you guarantee me there's no risk and everybody has the same thing and the plan's well thought out. And that's, that's not buy-in. And so it has to be conversational. And one of the physicians I worked with, um, Was his faith was Jewish, and he asked me to install a plaque on his kind of office slash quarters. He commuted, so we had kind of an office with sleeping areas, and glad to do that for him. It was part of his faith, and I just asked some questions. I'm like, "Tell me about this." And it was called—I think I'm getting it right—it was called a mezuzah, and it was. Hebrew writing that basically, as he explained it to me, it was the covenant he held with his God. And he hung it at his door. And every time he came in and out, he touched the mezuzah as his way of recommitting, re-reminding himself, placing as priority the covenant or the promise he had made. And so I started seeing them everywhere, you know, as a football team runs on the field, like they're, tapping a doorway as like, you know, um, um, you know, I believe, or whatever Ted Lasso's, um, you know, believe. Like, that was Mazuza. And I started to think about like, what if our badges we badge in is our Mazuza? Like, today I buy in. What if it was a daily practice that we made to merge our personal mission and the gifts we bring To our, you know, organizational purpose and mission. And so for me, I started to manage my own buy-in in my daily meditations, like with reflecting and being intentional about how I want to go through my day. And what I find is when I skip that, my day's not intentional and I don't live up to the type of person I want to be in my conversations. And so we all need these grounding, and your people need grounding. And in a weird way, your non-negotiable about buy-in, that they come with willingness, is the most beautiful invitation you can make to them about, let's not be victims today. You come in living intentionally. I'll come in living intentionally. That way we can create some great things together, which I think is what everybody's craving.

Yeah. So much good, good stuff there. So much good stuff there. I got to think about just some techniques and some things that A lot of these aren't going to work every time. There's discernment. There's what relationship do you have? Because as always, rules without relationship equals rebellion. And, you know, as I was thinking about things that we've thought about and seen work as little just nudges at buy-in is my favorite one to go at is any conditional buy-in, especially if something's been already decided by the organization. It's not illegal, it's not immoral, and it's not unethical. But someone's like, you know, I'm all in as long as. I think that's the language you hear, and there could be a list. And just taking one of those at a time and just opening it up with a question for self-reflection. We talk about toggling someone up. It's like, I'm all in as long as there's not competing priorities. And all of us kind of smile because for 12 years we've been working or 20 years, there's always competing priorities. It's like the moment you allow that as a colleague, as a leader, that that's a condition. Well, once you get to resilience, the moment there's some competing priorities, resilience goes And then ownership is what we didn't move forward very far because there was all these competing priorities. And it's like it's the priorities fault. And so I love given that. I think we really introduced this in the tough times during the pandemic, but it's stuck. It's not a tactic. It's not just to not be kind, but it's really if I if I got that relationship, I go well well given that we always have competing priorities. I know it's pretty busy right now. I want to validate that, and we got a lot going on. But given that we always have competing priorities, and this is a key focus in the next few weeks. How could we still stay the course? What ideas do you have? You know, someone's like, I'm all in, but I reached out to that person. They still haven't got back to me. It's like, well, given that people sometimes don't get back to you when you reach out by email, what else could you try? And if you notice that, what else could you try? We're getting into resilience. What other ideas do you have? Who else do you know, given that you haven't got a hold of them? Who else do you know is really good at getting a hold of people? Can we crowdsource and ask them for their 3 best tips? And so I love, given that— I know I went into resilience, but to secure that buy-in when you hear those 3 or 4 conditions. And I often coach on people, I go, each human has like the same 5 conditions. And if you get in there and know what their common conditions are, a lot of it's fear, a lot of it is past habits. You can go at those and call them to greatness to say, you know, given we might not have all the information, how can you still move forward skillfully? And then we entertain that conversation. You're thinking with them on how they can move forward in that mess. So given that as the first, you know, technique for— it's not really for— it's not just for buying, it's for so many things. But I feel like you can go at and get past those conditions with that idea.

And it changes the energy away from me as your leader being the representative of reality, the only representative of reality. And it's like, I'm Just reporting reality. Like, you bumped up against reality. I'm on your side.

Yes.

You know, given that, like, what can you do or what can we do? You know, I think, um, one of the strategies I use a lot, especially with people I don't have a lot of direct power over— I don't even like to use power I have over people. Um, but I would just say like, how you doing? And not well. I feel disconnected or I feel unconsulted or I feel like I'm not valued. And I'm like, so what? What would your ideal look like? I want to be valued and I want, you know, and they give me a whole list of all the things they want. I'm like, awesome. What do you, what are you willing to do to get that? And that's where the gap in buy-in comes up because they're like, well, like you would have to prove to me and I'm just going to wait for the people I don't trust, administration, to like deliver that. And I'm just like, what are the odds of that working? And, you know, a lot of people— I just experienced it here in Mexico. I love Mexico. And if you're sitting on the beach in Mexico, somebody will probably approach you to purchase something. And I just am loving watching people that don't live in Mexico go through this process because I was sitting next to somebody and they're like, I really want one of these guys' silver bracelets that he's bringing by. And if you see him, she said to her friend, Like him, I really that's my goal. I we've got about a half hour before the plane. I really want to get one of those. So the guy comes over, and she is like he tells her fifteen bucks, and you know we negotiate a little bit, and she's like five dollars is my top offer, and he's like okay, and walks away, and she's mad, and I'm like but he already has the bracelet. And evidently his costs are not $5. Like, she's like, I wanted that bracelet, to her friend. And the friend's like confused. She's like, well, then they pay him $15. You can have the bracelet. This seems like super simple. And we've all spent a gazillion dollars on vacation, but we want, you know, the one person to take the hit for our, you know, overspending. And so she's like, oh, I need to get the bracelet. And she calls the guy back over at the gate. She's like, he's like 15. And she's like, is that your best? And he goes, well, actually my best would be 12. And she's like, perfect. I'll give you 7. And he's like, I just, I can't. And he walks away and she's mad at him. And I'm like, it's her goal and her unwillingness to just buy the bracelet. If you want the bracelet, buy the bracelet. If you don't want the bracelet, don't buy the bracelet. She's like, it's not worth 12. And I'm thinking, then don't buy the bracelet. She's like, but I want the bracelet. And I'm like, evidently it's worth more than 5. You're still thinking about it. It just showed me how often at work we're like, I wanna be valued. And my response is like, awesome, add value. Well, you would need to guarantee me, you would need— I'm like, that doesn't sound like that would be very valuable. If I have to make the world perfect and then you contribute, that doesn't sound like value add. But people wanna do ego math. They want to withhold buy-in. They want the deck stacked in their favor. They want very little risk. They want the big benefit, the silver bracelet, but they want to give very little for it. And then they're mad at the world that they didn't get what they wanted. And to me, that's just ego work that I think leaders need to be like, I care about you. If you can buy into the what, I would love your expertise on the how. It's not negotiable. Not trying to be a dictator here, but I can't bend reality in your favor and help you pretend that we make silver bracelets for $3 here in Mexico. Like, I just can't feed this delusion of your reality. And by the way, it's okay if you don't want it. Somebody else will. So the final part of the story is the guy goes and sells like 10 silver bracelets down the way, and she has 2 minutes before they need to leave for her plane. She's like, Screw it. I'm paying him $12. And she calls him over and the bracelet's gone.

And then you—

and she's like, oh, can you get another one? Like, don't you have more? Like, how long would it take? Can you meet me at the airport? Like, I'm like, lady, you haggled this guy and you lost the deal. And that's how reality works. You even wanted the guarantee that he would keep the bracelet for you until you became reasonable. That is not to be expected. And people are mad that other people got the promotion. Well, they were bought in. Well, they're brown-nosing. Well, yeah, they said yes to a lot of our initiatives and that's something we value. And so I just see people get themselves in these stressful stories and binds about like fighting with someone who's not trying to screw them. Like that person was not trying, but they're like, they're just trying to take advantage of me. I'm like, I don't think so. I think they're just trying to sell bracelets. At a price they can make a living at.

Yeah, no, it's so good. What's hitting me there is, well, not only is that hilarious, but that's— it's such a good lesson about, about buy-in. And then I'm also thinking what happens is like, is it buy-in to the what or is it buy-in to the how? You know, like what we're trying to do, strategy, goal, you know, decision change, or is it the buy-in to the how? And my favorite tool that I see just reveals this and you don't even have to really do anything but trust the tool as a leader. Yeah. It's most easy to see if you have a change that's decided and there's like a little bit of weird silence, or it, you know, maybe it's a little bit complicated on what phase 1 should be to start, or there's just a little bit of that groan going on right when it's announced. You know, I can't tell you how many groups I'm like, what's a change you're going through that's causing a little bit of pushback? And the whole audience goes, oh, the new software update. And, and so that's like a change to buy into that the organization usually has already decided. And so I like to start— our negative brainstorm is just really a brainstorm on what could go negatively. What are the issues with trying to start that process, like to, um, execute on the change? And it's just from a high level. We're not getting into all the details. And usually there's like a small group. If you have a group of 50, there'll be like a group of 6 that just can list off for 15 minutes, like all the reasons why it won't work, why we shouldn't have to, why we shouldn't have to buy in, why we should have been consulted. And if you just trust the tool and capture word for word what they say, you just list those as issues. And then I like to, after about 10 minutes of that group usually just reeling, I just say, thank you so much for this great input to start us. Anybody else want to join in? You know, and like offer their input. There's 40 other people and they're all silent because they're horrified or they just don't want to get involved in the hot mess. So then you let the other group kind of finish and you might end up in that tool with, you know, say there's 25 issues. Well, in this case, the one I'm sharing, most times the decision's already been made. We've invested in the software or it's updating and we need to get trained on it and try it out. And so I like to—

By the way, usually not made lightly. There's usually a bunch of experts who have looked at all the issues with every system and decided this fits best for us or it's what we can afford. Or like, it's not a decision where some idiot just ordered software.

Yeah, dreamed it up in the middle of the night and thought, you know, and so anyway, you just go cross out issues. And I'm like, well, these are great risks you've identified that could be roadblocks along the way of this going well to start. And then we asked, let's just do a brainstorm, everybody share, like, what's the probability? You don't have to know exactly, but high, medium, or low, this will happen, each of these. And then what's the impact on our business and our customers or our patients if it does happen? So you're really getting this visible. And then what I find is so funny is like that group, once you do this, like what's the probability for this new software? We don't have any training and they're saying hi. And then someone in the corner raises their hand. They're like, I'm in training. We have training on Thursday. 99% are signed up. There's a weird 1% that haven't signed up. Well, we find out that this group of 6 just doesn't read their email and they haven't signed up for training. So this whole like lack of buy-in to the software is just like resistance. But as you go through this, you end up with a really clear scan of like, what's low probability, what

are real issues, because I've also had people bring up like amazing issues. I'm like, this is valuable.

So then after you go through all this, I know it's a long story. And we have a video, well, Mark, that shows this, but I love to see it visual. We've really simmered down the ego. And then we can figure out the things that are low, low, low probability, low impact, we cross those out of the 25, 7 of them are low, low. Why even worry about it for now? And then we circle the 3 or 4 that are like really could be issues that hinder us. And then I like to circle those and I go, team, now we're all here clear on what we need to start with. Now what could we do to just navigate this? Or what's risk mitigation? And then you get the silence. And when we say like, what do you do with fake buy-in? Well, you got to find out if it is fake buy-in. So then I hear the silence and I like to let people reflect. We teach leaders to reflect. Because it might be introverts, it might be people need time to process. But a lot of times it reveals like, is it skillset? Do we not have the skills to work on that? Do we need to hire for it, you know, partner with someone to do it? Is it approach? Like we're refusing to use a new approach for this new reality and that's holding us back. Or the third one, the dirty little secret is this just revealed, this long tool took about 20 minutes, a lack of willingness to do what the organization decided. And back to where we started this, you can only work with the willing. And so you can call that out. Like, you have to find— so that's resistance, lack of buy-in to the what, the new decision that was, you know, decided by the organization. It's not anything about the how. That was working on the how. They're not participating in the how. Maybe it's both, actually, now that I think about it. But it really is going back to, I'm frustrated we're doing this in the first place. But that's not buy-in. So it reveals in some way, say, if you Follow that tool. I know you use it a lot. That fake lion. It's like, oh, now we know what's really going on. It's not about the how or the change. It's about lack of willingness. Does that resonate?

It really does. And part of the work of the ego is the ego bundles things together to the point where it's undoable or unfigureoutable. And so part of self-regulation is the ability to use good mental processes when you're in ego, where we're all screwed and none of this will work. And it's further proof that they don't care about us and we're being led by idiots. When, when you're in those extremes, Like so many businesses in the world have implemented the software, but you're thinking that it's the only thing that can't be done when you're in those extremes. It's your job to use some of these techniques to your own self-regulation. Am I bundling in the what and the how? And can I back up and agree with the what decision's been made and use my energy to really ensure that we do a great how, that we implement with excellence given some of these risks that we've identified. And one of the things that I get concerned about lately out on the road is we teach leaders to do a lot of techniques and philosophizing, and they come to us and they're like, what do I do when this happens? And that's the start. But the reality in reality-based leadership is what we need to do is get our people more skillful so that they can wander through the world more skillfully and more freely, that they're disruption-proof, that their psychological safety is portable. And so I'm glad to start with leader, here's a technique. But as you show your people these techniques, individuals to be considered fluent in their current jobs need the ability to use good mental processes and to self-regulate and to understand their own ego and to understand when they're being played by their own ego. And that's where I see leaders using tools, but not ever calling people up to greatness by saying, this is the 3rd time we've done the negative brainstorm with you because you went to extremes.

Yeah.

And we're catastrophizing. I need to work with you over the next month so that you have a better mental process so that this catastrophizing behavior stops. It's hurting your performance. And that's where I see a lot of leaders that have studied reality-based leadership. There's 2 mistakes they're using. They aren't using it on themselves so that they can come to a conversation loving and calm, that they aren't meeting the energy coming their way with like energy, that they can hold the center. First mistake, use it on yourself. And second mistake, using it on others. Great introduction, but it needs to be followed with, and I need you to do this for yourself if you want to live well. Yeah. So when I went to You know, when when first of all, when I I was hit by a car and got a fracture in my hip when I was training for a marathon, and my doctor suggested that I go to physical therapy, and I'm like, how much can they help me? Like I'm strong, I'm a runner, and I went for like a session physical therapy, and basically they had me standing next to a wall, moving my hip three inches. I'm standing straight and they just want me to move my hip to touch the— we're talking 3 inches. And I immediately am like, this is ridiculous. This is not going to help. My ego just like shut that down. And I was in a lot of pain. I was being a bit of a victim. I wasn't going to PT. I go back to my doctor for painkillers and he's like, I just can't give you painkillers. You have to go to PT. You have to learn some new techniques. So I went to PT, and my PT person would be like, um, pull your card, start your routine. And I would wait for her, and she would come over, and she would be like, seriously, move your hip 3 inches towards the wall. I taught you this last week. And she got pretty frustrated with me, and she's like, Sai, your insurance pays for 6 of these sessions, and you're gonna leave here. You're making great progress. You're gonna leave here, and you're gonna go right back to where you were because What I teach you has to become your everyday routine, or you are 40 years old and you will walk with a limp your entire life, and you're gonna have back problems because you compensate for this injury. And, and I'm like, you know, my goal is to run marathons again. She's like, you're not even gonna be able to sit on the toilet without pain if you don't start taking responsibility for this. And I teach accountability. And it just got me thinking about how leaders are like, I see you in pain, let me help you. But that PT had to say, pull your card and get independent. That's the card you graduate with and go home. I give you all kinds of online learning and resources, but this is your recovery.

Yeah.

And I think leaders too often, you know, think that they're the ones having to pull tools. Pull a tool, teach the tool, and then foster accountability for people to use good mental processes and use the tool. So that it isn't chaos unless you're there pulling the tool. I

love that. Like, it's almost one-on-one follow-up. And maybe from the group experience of these, you can sense— this is situational— what someone might need to grow in next. And I, you know, back to that negative brainstorm example, 3rd time you've seen these freakouts. I love what you said there. It's like, what if you did a quick sketch of what I just did? Takes you 7 minutes about the next announcement. So that's gone through, and then maybe you only have 3 concerns that are more neutral. That are really expertise. It's like true concerns we need to look at. And then a lot of times those bringing up most reasons why something won't work and why we shouldn't buy in are like, I call it your alpha. That could be male or female, or it's just like, I remember being a freshman at Iowa State. We had this freshman that even the seniors that were like NBA lottery picks would follow their energy even though the behavior wasn't so great. I'm like, you're, you're a freshman with all that influence and you're using it for evil, not good. Like you're your influence and your leadership. It's like usually that person's like, if they just come a little cleaner with better input, the whole meeting goes more into how we could instead of why we can't. You got way more buy-in. And so just, I love that, that it's, that's going for that final close one-on-one after introducing some of these and bringing that shared accountability for the month.

And I also think one-on-one with the best people who sit there silently and follow the freshman energy. Yeah. Because this is where we're, as leaders, we're trying to find and People show up to our keynotes and training so thirsty, like, give me a technique that would work. And I'm like, it's still not sustainable unless this technique grows in the people that you're developing. And it becomes a job expectation that you need to come with a good mental process.

Mm-hmm.

And if you come to me as a high accountable and you're like, that was a crappy meeting today. We had to listen to, you know, Dana, go through all the reasons it won't work. I love that you didn't like that meeting. That sounds like it's pretty painful for you. What's your part in your own pain? Like, we are not integrating learning. We are leaving learning on the table. We are still operating as managers where there's a problem, the leader needs to bring the tool to fix it instead of, I've taught you a tool. I taught you how to fish. This is how we do business. This is the methodology we do it. And, you know, just like project management methodology, when we first introduced that, it was cumbersome, it was bulky, it would take forever. People just wanted to execute. And then, you know, we would execute imperfectly and it would be, see, it won't work. And when people came to me and they're like, you know, we're going to execute. And I'm like, did you scope the project? Do you have a project plan? Have you talked to the stakeholder? Like basics. And they're like, no. For me, that becomes their poor job performance. I've given you a tool called performance management methodology and you're not using it. And we happen to roll out— I'm sorry, project management methodology. We happen to roll out a lot of the projects. Your projects aren't going well. That's not because the world is bad. That's because you're underskilled. And if you're chronically frustrated at work, if you're saying on the engagement survey, leaders are clueless and I, you know, don't feel valued, then What in your skill set isn't able to get your own needs met? What in your approach is no longer like working? And my goal is for if people never see me again, that when they're stressed, they can take it to paper like Byron Katie says. They can work it out with a simple methodology. Hers is four questions in the turnaround and free themselves. And as a leader, my goal isn't to run great projects. It's not to have. a successful team. It's more importantly that individuals can free themselves at any time, any place, every situation, always, every day. And once we have a lot of people who can free themselves and run their own program and self-regulate, the work we come together and do is effortless. It's absolutely effortless.

I think it's spot on. And so I got not much more to add. I just think that all of this brings it back to It really there's a lot of happiness knowing finally that buy-in is your choice. If you're in a space listening to this, that's like all buy-in as long as like that is just a deal with the devil. That that language and you know you I'm going back to your bracelet example, but it's like what would ideal look like? All buy-in as long as and then I like that second sheet or second pillar. What am I willing to do to get what I want? So those are. Hopefully those 2 lists are similar, or at least the second list can put a dent in the first. And that doesn't mean you never ask for what you need, and you're not saying that. The third list might be like, now that I have shared accountability, I'm leaning in. Here's one thing left over I might ask my leader or a colleague or the organization. And that balance, just as an individual bringing your buy-in, if you go through that tool, that exercise, buy-in becomes— it's back to your choice. Right. And that's the first step of accountability, which we just shared at the beginning. And the research leads to more happiness and results. So—

For a lot of leaders, it's checking your own buy-in. I'll work with employees as long as they don't show up negative. Like, it's like,

you

know, buy-in. And that 3rd column, this bracelet example, and then we'll let this example go. But the 3rd column, so here's what I want. And, you know, here's what I'm willing to do, which wasn't robust enough to get what she wanted. But I only want to pay seven dollars. Then here's what I could use for help from the organization. I'm sitting beside her as a you know a person who lives American background living in Mexico. Every time the vendor comes by, he talks to me. I know him by name. I am like Rodolfo, ¿cómo estás? And I obviously am an English speaking resource in the lawn chair next to her. Who she could have asked for a little bit of help. She would say, "I've got 15 minutes. What are the odds of me getting this bracelet for you know five bucks? And do you have any ideas?" And I'm like, next vacation start early and often. You might hit somebody at the end of the day that doesn't want to carry that back through the sand. You've got the benefit of time, or bundle it. Ask for three for twenty, and you're gonna get like I could have. Probably even just said, Rodolfo, give me a break. It's a friend of mine. She's cheap. I want her to be quiet. She needs to get to her plane. You and I, let's get her out of here. Give her a bracelet so we can enjoy the beach. Like there's a hundred ways she could have been helped, but she was so locked into her story that she wouldn't even look next to her for somebody that had a ton of expertise that would have gladly helped her. Even if it was unreasonable what she was asking, I probably still could have, uh, Helped her get the bracelet. And that's what happens when you lock into the, I'm not going to buy in, I'm going to argue with reality, is you also lock into, I'm not going to open up and ask some obvious experts for help. And so now, not only have you hurt your commitment, you've hurt your resilience, as you said. And the only ownership you have a chance at is, I'm a victim of the world. Yeah. And when life is hard, And then that just— your learning is that that negative thing is reinforced. You know, these people really were out to get me. My story is valid. And that's the negative side of accountability. That's the part that doesn't free you up. So leaders, take an inventory, figure out where you are skimming on buy-in. It really is the holy grail. It's not something you can mandate. It's something you have to facilitate. But it really is something that we can only work with the willing. And do your best to get people signing up, but it's a shared accountability.