Hope Needs A Comeback in Healthcare

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reality-Based Leadership Podcast. I've got Alex Dorr, Vice President of Evolution in Reality-Based Leadership, with me. Hey, Al.

Hey, how we doing?

We're doing great, doing great. I, as people know, I'm inviting you to like this new form of our podcast. We're trying to keep it fresh and listen to those people that love our work. And what they told us, they wanted more just conversation on applying reality-based leadership, about how we think about current topics. And so hence the new podcast. So make sure you're subscribed, make sure your team members are subscribed. And it always helps us if you go out and give us a rating or a like on any of your favorite platforms. But here we are again for another episode. And each time that we start to plan a time to come together for Alex and I, we really think about like, what are we hearing out there? What are— people struggling with. And I often have to laugh because when we come up with topics, I'm like, but that's not new. And what I forget about in podcasts is that, that, you know, while people want new information and new topics, Alex and I have kind of a saying where there's no new stories. This human condition has been around for 1,000 years. And I continue to see how the ego shows up and morphs itself with intellect to pretend like these times are so different and so hard and so so unfigureoutable. And I guess that's what I want to play with today. I'm seeing, especially in my healthcare clients, some stinking thinking come up where people have really kind of outsourced their success and happiness, and they've really gotten into some ego traps of believing things are unfigureoutable. And, you know, they're asking me like, Sai, how can we support our teams, and how can we engage people and retain people? And, and so I wanted to talk about that today. I'm gonna make a call to really go back to the basics. We know what works. In evolving leaders and in supporting staff members and in creating shared accountability. We know what works. And when people ask me, Sai, what do you recommend? And I recommend what we know from the research works only every time. They're like, yeah, but besides that, but besides that. So I don't know, maybe I'm just having a frustrating week, but I'm like, everybody's looking for something fancy and clever. And it's like, just stop optimizing before you've standardized. Just go back to the basics, standardize the principles of reality-based leadership, and you will do well.

Yeah, I, I, it has me thinking about, um, just as we're trying to simplify RBL and how do we make it easier and, and consumable and the tools more applicable. And it's, uh, I remember one time you said like, if you're a really good leader, you should be just so Almost boring as a leader. Like each situation someone comes up, you got like your mantra, which is, you know, we talk a lot, validate the experience or the feeling. And then is it clean thinking we need? Do we got to find our space for impact? Are we ready for next right action? And if you just— it's like, it's like the same thing over and over, and it's back to the basics. And, uh, and I love how you say that, like, but, but besides that, I did that 3 years ago where they're kind of bored of it, that tool. I don't want to do that again. Well, What else you got? And there's, there's a space to spice it up. And we have some other options for you. But it really is, when you're looking at how do you keep people engaged, how do you keep bringing hope back, that, that ability to take an unpreferred reality or a challenge and stay with someone as you validate that experience, but then we get beyond it. That's the engagement. That's the hope. That's the— it's doable again. And so, I think reality-based leaders can really do that right now. if they get back to the basics and some of the tools that we've taught many times on this podcast and a lot of our other sessions. So that's my thoughts on it.

Yeah, it really amazes me because just on Facebook today, somebody wrote me and it's like, somebody's raving about your book, Reality-Based Leadership. It was a book club and it's Liv Reads, I think it's L-I-V Reads. She does a bunch of book clubs. And, you know, that book was written in 2009. And people are like, yeah, but the world has changed. And what I'm here to tell you, the human mind has not changed. The ego has not changed. I mean, these are universal principles and I'm not here fighting for old work, but I am pointing out to people how our ego plays us. And if you don't really come to understand how your mind works, you're gonna get played by the ego. And if you understand how the world works, you're gonna keep arguing with reality, which is an argument you're gonna lose. Like, 100% of the time. So one of the things I've been doing is I've been working with people. They're tired, they're frustrated, they, you know, it all seems hard and unfigureoutable. And what I'm doing is I'm just listening for how the ego is playing people. And I'm in healthcare a lot, and I'm having a lot of discussions for healthcare because we're coming up on May as Hospital Month, and we have Nurses Week and lots of other ways we honor folks. So what happens in our company is, you know, people are really calling in to make sure they've got us locked Locked in because if it's a week, you know there's only so many dates we can do. So if you haven't locked us in and you want us part of your program, get on the phone and get calling. But I'm talking to a lot of people and we're talking about what to present and what will help. And if you know me, you know I love healthcare. And the first thing I'm looking at is their limited belief systems. They've really gotten into learned helplessness. They've come to believe this thing is super hard and unfigureoutable. They have come to accept that. There's no way out of this. They've really started to outsource their success to their circumstances. And one of the things I see them do with the ego is they're like, well, Sai, we could do that. We could bring you in and we could work with our leaders on this. But if we don't figure out staffing, it's all for naught. But we can't figure out staffing because if we don't figure out the payer mix, it's all for naught. But we can't figure out the payer mix because if we don't figure out this, it's And so what happens is people take, the ego does this, take something we're working on. And when we're close to a solution that would involve courage and accountability and beginning where you are, being in the mess with imperfect solutions, but progress, not perfection. When we're about to do that, the ego adds on another thing and keeps adding it on till it's like unfigureoutable. And then the ego's like, see, we can't take action. And it would be like if we're going to lunch and I say, well, where do you want to go to lunch? And we just say, well, tacos sound good. Let's figure out a taco place. And we just keep it easy because all we have to do is get lunch and get something to eat and, and have a good conversation. That's, that's all our agenda was like. And we know if you're hungry, eating works. Like, if you're hungry and you go eat, we know from the science that then you feel better and you feel fed. But people go, well, wait a minute though, if we're going to take 3 people with us and we're going to eat tacos, don't you think we should survey them to make sure that no one's eating tacos this evening? Because if somebody's going to have tacos this evening, they shouldn't have it done in 2 in 1 day, and we might have to change our choice. And then it's like, well, before we survey them, Shouldn't we then figure out like what everybody's menu is for the week? And shouldn't we figure out like what the preferences are and what all the meal options are? And all of a sudden, there's just no place— the matrix we've had to build to make this decision on where to go to lunch is so complex because we have 3 people with 5 family members. We've got 55 people and we have to account for where they're all eating and if the tacos will be even good. It's like, but What's the risk of an okay taco? Like, we are now overplanning this. I find so many people calling in and saying, what's your best practice? And I'm like, 5 learning contents. We've got 5 main things, group coaching on the interim. So we do a learning piece, we do group coaching, we have people apply it, we do toolkit sessions, we have them practice it. We have the formula. And they're Get a proposal. They have the money. They can't pull the trigger and say yes. And it's like, what's up? And it's like, well, but once on a Tuesday, somebody has similar topic, and that speaker wasn't that good. And I'm like, why are you working so hard to figure out why this won't work? What if you worked as hard to figure out how this could work? And what's so exciting to me is we know from the research we work with Sonova, and we offer this premier program. There's a new one coming in May. If you're in healthcare. Sonova. We should put in the show notes, um, go out to the Sonova organization. They're a nursing layer organization. It's open to everybody. We did pre and post data collection, and I have to pull up my phone because I don't want to screw these numbers up. We asked people, um, leaders, do you intend to be in healthcare like a few years from now? And you would not believe the number that said hope not. Yeah. Hope to be out of this. Post, after just giving them reality-based leadership tools and practices and techniques and group coaching, and not just having them listen to a keynote, but developing their approaches, modernizing their approaches, developing their skillset, and working on their willingness. Because anytime you're stuck, it is skillset. You're using an outdated skillset. Or approach, you're using a less than modern approach, or your willingness is dead because you're believing, you're thinking like, this is unfigureoutable, why even try? So basic, we work on those 3 things. 94% said that that has changed for them after just 3 months of development. 94% said their intent to stay increased. It was about 50% of them said their job satisfaction increased and they felt with the training they could actually do their jobs. Like, they felt like they were skilled to do their jobs. A lot of people are so underskilled right now because we've had 3 years of COVID where nobody got developed. Before that, a lot of people weren't doing development. So you've got people that are 6 years into their career that if they've had development, it's internal development based on traditional leadership practices. Which we have proven fuels the drama, not diffuses it. And so it's just amazing to me that 80% reported increases in their own engagement. I mean, these aren't 20% increases. These are 94%, 80%, to the point when we got the data, I'm like, check the data.

This can't be right.

It's that simple. It's that simple. Buy our books, read, do a book club. You know, get people signed up for our newsletter. Every week we give you podcasts. We give you every other week newsletters. And I know I'm on a roll right now, but I just, we have some data. We know what works. You have to have people working their own programs. You've gotta have people understanding their personal accountability and how it correlates to their own happiness and engagements at work. The 5 rules of the workplace. These are universal principles that once people understand them and work these tools together, it changes. It can be the same job, but their experience of the job is different. Now, do we also need to fix staffing? Do we need to continue to innovate care models? Do we need to ensure safety for our patients and our workers? Do we need to really enhance our diversity, inclusion, and equity and belonging efforts? Measures and efforts. All of it. But we can do all of it all at once. We don't have to use something to be a reason why we can't. Our whole philosophy is, well, let's talk about how we could. So I don't know, that's my soapbox for today, but I'm like, come on folks, your ego is playing you. We have the answers. You have the wherewithal and the resources. We know some of the solutions. And a lot of the solutions is not what model do we create, because if you don't have clear thinking and you're in story and you're the victim, the model you create won't work. If you can't see your part in it where your agency is, you won't find your place of impact. There's a process, I'd love for you to talk about that. There's a process and it's in order that you can work through so that what you end up solving for and innovating on

Yeah, I was— I wasn't going to stop you. I was kind of enjoying the soapbox side, so thanks for that. But it got me thinking. I had this healthcare gig, and the person before me was a nurse futurist. I think her first name is Bonnie, and she was really fascinating. I got to talk to her after, and she came up to me and she goes, I know what you inside do. And it was kind of a weird start, but I was like, it kind of surprised me. I'm like, what do you mean? Because I had just given my talk. She's like, You guys, I finally get what reality-based leadership is. You're doing all you can to keep anyone you can in healthcare. Like, you're showing it's doable. You're showing the space for impact. You're showing it doesn't have to be so hard. And I realized, like, that's all of our tools are like that same reality. You can go through it joy or misery, your choice. There is a space for impact. It's not going to be perfect. There'll be some days that are very tough, but you'll end the day with the mission of healthcare and what you signed up for with the space of impact. Yeah. feeling really rejuvenated. And then you showed that data. That's what hit me. I'm like, people wanna stick around. Like, I find that people get into it for the mission and then they get out of it for the lack of leadership, the lack of, you know, clarifying what's our goal here? What's our role here? What are the set procedures for us to do great work for our patients and keep 'em healthy and safe? And RBL helps clarify a lot of these things. And I found, Sai, a lot of times you're on the leadership side to start just with your experience and how long you've been doing this. Yeah. And I'll get in on the staff side. And so I come in with a, uh, a staff approach that's like, here's how to be happier, successful regardless of your circumstances. You mentioned the rules of the workplace, and I find people just light up. It's like they haven't been shown the real place to add impact, like in a huddle, in a meeting. Like, I didn't know an SBAR tool is how I can best bring value. I thought just sharing my opinion about why it won't work is helpful. You want how it could work given the risk. So Now I have this framework, I'm like fired up. I'm like back with the mission. I got some tools to add my input right where it's gonna add value. And so I find like people are scared to sometimes do some RBL 'cause they're like, how's my team gonna respond? And I've found from the employee side, the direct reports, individual contributor, they're like so grateful. And I make a joke, and this is not supposed to sound bad, but I swear some people have only seen like The Office. I'm from the younger generation. That's how workplaces is, like The Office.

Watched it last night.

I love that show. A little bit of structure and like, Oh, thinking inside the box, like, like, given the constraints, how could we, like, help us frame this up? And now I'm fired up again. I'm like, oh, this seems like real leadership. And so I find some of these, these basic techniques I was referring to, it then activates your staff, like engagements. Now, it's like, it's not possible to disengage because I'm getting invited often to engage within our reality and not kind of outside those bounds. And so I just, I don't know if that helps build on what you're saying, Sy, but it's like we got a lot of good stuff and it's getting fancy and clever and trying to redesign it. And it does exactly what you said. We just don't get started with anything. Like everyone, I thought about your story about tacos. It's like, what's the result of that? Everyone's still starving and we're sitting around at the table.

And ticked because we should at least get lunch. People are mad. They're like, so we don't even get lunch? It's like, you talked yourself out of lunch. Like we could have all had lunch by now. Y'all talked yourself out of it. And you know what? If the tacos are crappy, then we just don't go back there next time. We have better information. You know, at least we're not hungry. Um, and just want to acknowledge I had to, um, switch cameras in the middle of this podcast. So if you just saw a jump we can't edit around, we don't care because we're talking some great stuff here. But Alex, you Are so on to something in that the ego's really playing people, and we're really focused on what's not figureoutable and where we can't have impact. And people crave impact. People don't engage because the workplace is perfect. People engage because they can see a point at which they can have impact. In fact, when I come and I want to have impact and I can't see a place to plug and play, so I'm toggled down and all I can see is I'm the victim, this is undoable, There's nothing I can figure out. I actually disengage. And to make myself feel better, I get into drama. I gossip, I scorekeep, I vent, I complain. And leaders and colleagues— it's not even leaders anymore— colleagues and friends, what we need to do for each one of us and our own mental health is when people come to us, definitely validate the experience, but not the sense they're making of the experience, and help hope make a comeback. I'll never forget, for those of you in healthcare, this will show my age, but we started to hear people towards the end of life be told by providers, there's nothing more we can do for you, you're terminal. And healthcare leaders are like, what? Like, let's keep treating them. And let's like— and providers, I mean, like, let's do all of this because we only had 2 choices: stop everything or keep doing what we knew. And then some really amazing researchers and practitioners came and said, no, that's not even true. While we might not be able to use, you know, curative treatment, there's a ton of stuff we can do for you to support you through this last stage of your life. Like, let's focus on what we can do. We can manage your pain, we can deal with the fears, we can help, you know, the last stage of life, as I wrote in my book, Life's Meant to Be Lived Happy, is a major developmental stage. You don't just get to adulthood and then you're developed. Like it's about closure and sense-making and reconciliation. And it's a big development stage. But we're looking so right now in many industries, but in healthcare specifically, and we're like, you know, but none of this is like fixable. And I'm like, but it's all within our agency to have impact. And it's impact that feeds engagement, not perfect situations. So I've carried caseloads. I had caseloads that felt undoable at times. I would have group therapy and have 25 people in a group therapy. Any textbook you read says just not— we like 12, right? Back in the day. Now we do sessions with hundreds online, but it's like, it wasn't ideal, but I had such good leaders that said, so given the fact that you've got 25 people in group, let's focus on where you can have impact. If you're only working with one person, then make a different type of follow-up assignment so everybody finds three ways that they can relate to this one person's work, and they bring that to their one-on-one session. It was constantly saying, "Yep, that's a tough situation, but let's find where you can have impact." And I didn't love my working conditions at the time. I would have rathered them different, but I still feel really good about helping people improve their mental health, and my job was still satisfying. And so many leaders have fallen into the ego play of. I need to fix the circumstances before I can ask people to step up, and otherwise it's like an unfair trade. I want you to say, given these circumstances that we're working on mid and long term, given these circumstances, here's still a place you can have impact. You can still make a difference. You can still go home feeling tired but having done something pretty amazing. I worked for hospice, and people are like, that's gotta be the most depressing work in the world. I'm like, most rewarding work in the world, because They're like, yeah, but you can't really cure anybody. I'm like, yeah, but I can really help people die well. And that's the point we're missing with leaders is we're just helping people highlight where we're failing instead of highlighting where we're still succeeding and where people can make a difference. And I'm not ignoring that we have things to fix, but I'm acknowledging we've always had things to fix. And that is no reason to not do what we can with what we have in the time that we have while we fix some of this other stuff. And, you know, I live in a different country and I see healthcare providers do amazing things with a quarter of the resources that we have in the States. They aren't having the same level of disengagement. They are not having— their circumstances are worse, But they're not having the crisis of identity that some of us are. And I can only believe that that's because we've misdiagnosed the problem.

Yeah, a ton there, Cy. It's powerful the way you said it. It's got me thinking is like this changing reality versus growing ourselves. And there's something I talk about thinking inside the box a lot. But when you get your team, you know, saying, given this unpreferred reality, What can we do to succeed anyway? And that's where we put our hats. And at the end of the day, if that's what we tried, given our current staffing, given our resources we have, like if we're going to show up and we got our squad here, like let's, let's, let's do the best we can. And I had a story where there was a nurse leader that had been doing this over and over and her team just could bounce back. Like they just had this, like it's almost become a game to them where they're like, oh, bring it on. It's not ideal. But they're like, let's, let's look at what we have. Let's frame up our situation. Given that, how could we? And eventually there was some tool they needed that they couldn't find in there. It took them 15 minutes to find this thing. They needed to do this quick check. And she went up, her name was Priscilla, and just went right to her leader and said, can we get a dang? And she's like, send the tool we need ordered. And no one could get anything like approved. Like there was a lot of like resource constraints. And the guy goes, Priscilla, if it's you, buy 5 of them. In fact, buy the— find the most expensive one and buy it. And it wasn't just because—

You're a credible witness. You're a credible witness. Because we know—

Credible witness. I've seen you succeed anyway. You've been, you know, you're doing this already. So when that person asks in a high level of accountability, they've succeeded in spite of the challenging reality. Then when they say, here's the one thing I need, it's so clear. It's such a clear ask. It's, you know, you're going to get like 10x the ROI on it. It's going to add a ton, a ton of value to our patients. And so the fact that it wasn't just buy one, it was like get 3 and get the most expensive one. And there's some other approvals in there, but I She told me that story and she's like, whoa, like, that was easy. But she didn't realize it's because she had been doing such good RBL with her and her team that when, when her team spoke up, it's like a lot moved that changed in reality. And so I think that's the, the interesting, like, go in first and then you'll be surprised how much the world changes outside. And I think that's what we're bringing in.

Yeah. And for people listening right now, a good ego check for you is as you're listening, if you're like, yeah, but what about this? And so we just let people, you know, Dire. We just keep the staffing that we know doesn't work. Like, if you're finding reactivism to this, your ego's intact. And if you're able to respond to these thoughts as, yes, all of it, all at once, all the time, it's, it's more complex than that, it's bigger than that, it's, it's not that simple. And stay out of that polarized thinking. That's really where we find the rich opportunity. And I find I can just say, yes, that's true. But say we don't have an answer for this. We don't. You're— that's true. But you're asking me to do this. I am. But we don't know what tomorrow will bring. What? You're right. Like, what happens when each of these ego pursuits aren't met with, let's go down the lane some more of this, like, battle? And instead it's like, and with all of that? What can we do? What would help? What's something I can offer? Because I think it is such a balance instead of finding the one solution and who's right and who's wrong and, and, you know, should we fund this? But then that's not— but if somewhere in there we can just do what we can with what we got, learn together, turn towards one another, and call our team up to think our best thoughts and create our best solutions. It's going to be messy and it's going to be imperfect and it's not going to solve every problem, but we'll know that we did what we could with what we had. And I think that's what leads to breakthroughs. That's what keeps me engaged and going for it. And I think we get lost in why we shouldn't have to and why we can't way too much. I live in Mexico and for some reason I am first responder to many car accidents here. I don't know if it's Is that highways dangerous? I don't know what's going on. But even my friends comment anecdotally, like, you come a lot, a lot of car accidents. So I went back to brush up kind of on my first responder stuff. And there's something I can always do. Even there was a really, really severe accident, I can tell the person, you're not alone. I'm not gonna leave. I'm gonna stay with you. Like, you know, um, You know, we've got help on the way. And if I get lost into like, gosh, all I know is a tourniquet. I don't know how else to like stop this bleeding. Like, I'm doing what I can. If I get lost in that, I forget the thing the person needs the most, which is I'm here. You're gonna stay with me. We're gonna make this work. And, and I know I'm being dramatic in some of these things, but I'm just so sad right now after Being with healthcare leaders who are believing they're thinking that we're already, we've lost the game. Like we're sunk. Like I, I for one refuse to believe it. I'll be in there. I'll be in there to the end. Like just figuring out like what we can do. And it doesn't have to be on the backs of our mental health or on the backs of our wellbeing. That's another place the ego goes. It's like, oh, so I just do this all by myself. I guess my main point in this podcast is I want you to listen to where your ego goes. And I want you to listen to how you set the stage against you before you even begin. And I want you just to contemplate what's our role in helping hope make a comeback. We are incredibly smart, caring, brilliant, kind people who chose healthcare for a profession. Let's not bail on ourselves now.

Yeah, that's so inspiring. So I also am a I'm thinking of some of the groups that we've really seen go back to the basics, and, uh, Priscilla's on my mind. She's in Houston.

Oh my gosh, amazing.

But what happened to her team—

She moved to Virginia, did a book club, and went back to the basics.

She's in Synova as well. Um, yeah, she did the whole journey. And, um, what happened with her team is she started to share with me some of the data. I gotta share this podcast, but they had shortages like crazy. And because of like what her team was doing in that little approval thing, like this was stuff that started happening. And their results, like they cut overtime by like 20%. And they're looking at the numbers, be like, what the heck's going on with, with her team over there? Like it was really the numbers started to show like something's going on over there. And she just started with her small team, what she had, couple of tools, RBL Book Club. And then they had her kind of present to others like, what the heck are you doing over there? And then eventually she had a list in the area. Now this is, I think it was Houston and they were in one of the suburbs. There was a list of people that said, so when you have an opening, Call me. I would like to transfer because like she was competing on drama. So like the shortage not I mean we need a lot more people for sure macro, but on the micro, she really knew like if I can create word on the street that our group this specialty is a low drama, highly accountable RBL focused group, and a lot of people you know no size work in RBL. There was starting a list. It was like once someone transfers out or you need that position, call me. I will come immediately. So Not that we're trying to steal talent, but it was really this like pipeline she created. And it was an interesting way to look at some of the shortages in our area. It might not be that it is on the macro that challenge, but it's a little bit on is what's the space that people are entering. I was just in rural Illinois and someone was telling me in group home that they're just super short. But she was also at the same time telling me about 2 of her 4 employees that are so negative and she's kind of leaving them be and They had someone they finally hired forever, great candidate, left in like 2 hours. Now, I know there's some other issues there. But I think it was that quick, you sensed what was going on in the team, person bailed. And there might have been more factors there. But I was kind of talking to her about, it's both levers, like, how as we bring someone in, you know, what's our squad like when they come in? Like, what's the culture there? What's the accountability level? What are we already using as far as tools? And so I've just seen some of these patterns that can also help with culture and retention and There's RBL really hits on the back end some of those things over time.

I think it's so important as we kind of wrap up this topic. I introduced it because I just wanted to— you know, as I said, I'm talking to all these healthcare leaders. We know it's tough and we know it's complex and it's an unpreferred reality. We also know what works. We have the basics. It's thousands of years of universal principle. It's how the mind works. It's how the world works. We know turning towards one another is the answer. And I guess my invite to everybody is just notice how your mind and your thinking defeats you before you even have tried to implement some of the things that we know work. And I would find that when I was a therapist too, that I would say, well, why don't you just go talk to this person you love? Well, because that won't work. They'll do this. Well, why don't you just write an open-hearted leather. Well, that won't work because I already know what they're gonna do. That's ego. And our biggest— if we have an enemy, is ego. Our problems are solvable and figureoutable, but if we're toggled down thinking in the form of ego, they won't be. And so this is really a lot more of a mindset issue than we might have ever imagined. Now, the ego has found some really new justification in the post-COVID world to make it seem even more impossible. But that is just fake news. That is just believing our own thinking, um, that we've never really validated. And, um, and so I'm calling people back to the basics, like question your thinking. How could you possibly know for sure?

Yeah. The mantra that, and I'm writing in my book, you had mentioned, maybe say it, but it's like we validate the experience. There's a lot of unpreferred realities. And then it's this invitation to reconsider the sense you're making or question the sense you're making. And you've hit hard on, let's check, are we clean in our thinking? Have we taken accountability for our part in it, our role moving forward in our engagement? And then from there, what's next right action? And that spot, if you're there, I just find so much hope in that because even if you don't quite get there to the goals or numbers we're trying to hit, you just— that mantra each day. And if you invite people to it, that's where a team is really doing the best they can with what they have. Yeah. And so that'd be my, my call in the end is, is kind of wrapping up what you said is validate the experience, clean up thinking, take accountability for our part, next right action. And that mantra can, can go a long way.

It can, it can. And good processes, clean processes have very little energy waste. And so if you're just moving through good mental processes, it's pretty hard to exhaust yourself because it will actually be energy building. Because you're seeing impact, not energy depleting. This is all about energy management. And so many people today are feeling so exhausted and burned out. But when I look at the processes they're using, they're really bad mental processes and they will be exhausting. And so it goes back to the basics. Clean up your mental processes. You'll be much more efficient. And, uh, you know, happiness is a lot more of a choice than we think. There's 2, you know, ways to go through the day, joy or misery. And I'm not talking about your emotions. Um, That come and go. I'm talking about your state of well-being, your contentment. And if you're feeling pretty jockeyed around, you're probably too anchored into the external and not the internal. So I look forward to a lot more podcasts. We will dive deep into this. I hope you're enjoying these podcasts. We got away from kind of formal teaching and we just wanted to do some random conversations because this is really what Alex and I sound like when we're together in one of our kitchens. Um, but give us some feedback. Let us know, are these, um, crazy conversations, you know, helpful to you as RBL practitioners? And, um, I'm not sure we gave you a lot of answers, but I hope we gave you a lot to think about. Alex, thanks for joining me. And we definitely will be back with some more thoughts.

Yes. Thank you. And hope to see us, Sonova. Um, hopefully we'll get to see some of you on Nurses Week, um, Healthcare Month and, and all of that. So thank you.

Oh, I'm glad you mentioned Sonova. If you— you can enter individual leaders, so you don't even have to bring something into your system. If you have individual healthcare leaders, go to Sonova and take a look. We've got a new cohort starting in May, I believe, or March. I can't remember. It's coming up here fast. Well, we're already April, so it'd be May. In May. And Priscilla was part of that. There's a lot of people you can talk to that said that course changed their lives. So come join us, learn the basics.