S2E10: My Guide to Mentorship

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Sy Wakeman. Welcome back, listeners, to the No Ego Podcast. This is a solo episode. You've got just me, Sy Wakeman, here, and I want to talk about a topic I thought in the past was kind of a boring topic. It had been overdone. Everyone's talking about it. Every conference has a session on it. And that topic is mentoring. And it's an old concept. It's something that I hear at every women's conference, especially, is the importance of a mentor and encouraging everyone to get a mentor. And people talk about how their career has been so successful because they've had mentors. And I get asked to be a mentor. And when the time is right for me and for the individual, I'm always glad to provide mentorship. And I have recently been finding out, as I've been working with some folks to see if the time was right and if I had space in the life I'm trying to design to accommodate their hope for mentorship, I've come to realize that my understanding of mentorship may not be the traditional understanding that many have in their minds. And so I thought I would just put out there a question to you on whether or not you mentor others or if you're in a mentoring relationship, maybe you're the mentee. And my question is this: have you really thought about what it means to be a mentor and whether we as mentors, when we play that role, because many times we're both the mentee and the mentor, are we moving the needle and the world in a direction that's going to be helpful? Are we using, I guess, our time and talent for good or evil? And so I want to just open up a discussion about mentoring and, for what it's worth, give you some of my thoughts coming from my background, both in the work world and in the therapy world. So one of the first things that happens for me when somebody asks if I would be their mentor is I take a look just at my own life and where I'm at in my own process of evolution. Am I really fit to mentor another, or am I needing to take my energy and put it back into my own evolution for a while so that I'm a better mentor? I also look at my need to only work with the willing. And so when someone asks me to be their mentor, something I tend to ask questions around is just what's their level of willingness? Whether that willingness is around being willing to grow and become skilled in this world, or is it to try and find some secret I might have to share with you to change reality? Because a lot of people come forward and they want my advice on how they can get other people to do things, or how they can get noticed, or how they can have an easier way of it. And the real ask there is they want me to have some way to bend reality or protect them or shortcut them or, you know, somehow to change reality. But mentoring really is about my help and other people's help in getting you, the mentee, to be able to move more skillfully through the current world, the world as it is. See, our goal isn't to rig reality. Our goal is to grow in a way that we can move effortlessly and skillfully Through whatever is what, what the reality is. And so the work is working on evolving the person or the people, not necessarily finding the secret passageway through reality. There's no secret portal out there. And a key part for me in mentoring others is I need to let them know that the focus of a mentoring relationship, in my opinion, is not on helping you get what you want. It's helping you become who you want to be, who you're meant to be. It is all about becoming the person you're meant to be and not getting what you hoped and dreamed about. And this is really subtle because if you're coming to me to help me mentor you to get a promotion, that's not mentoring. If you're coming to me to help you move through those pieces of ego that continually derail you from a promotion. If you're coming to me to become the person that you want to be, that's a great use of mentoring. The other is more about sponsorship. And so let me explain that in, in just a minute. So if I'm helping you get what you want, and I'm many times, many times willing to help people get what they want, whether it's a new role, a promotion, on a different team, to change careers, even at times to find a relationship. If I'm helping you get what you want, then I need to be in this moment confident that your current evolution has really taken place, that you've evolved to a place where you're ready to step into something bigger, more full. And so I got to be confident that your current evolution has taken place and that you're ready to give more in a more sophisticated way. And then I'm willing to use my credibility with others to highlight either your fit for a role that's available or coming available. I'm willing to highlight that you can provide benefit and impact, but it's the impact and benefit you're prepared to bring. And this isn't mentoring, this is sponsorship. Yeah. I'm giving my name and credibility. I'm highlighting that you're ready, that I'm confident in your evolution, that you've got something bigger to bring to the table to give, not necessarily to get. It's about my belief that you can deliver what's necessary to the solution, to the people, to those in need, that you can deliver what's necessary. But it's not about that you deserve something. It's about that you're ready to deliver something. And that, my friends, is sponsorship. The mentoring is what helps you move to that place of evolution. And then the getting what you think you want— and I would be careful to say getting what you want because many of us find that what we actually wanted was so hidden from us, I meant that the universe had something Other in store. It's hard to escape your destiny. But sponsorship is that I'm going to bring other people's attention to your existence in this world. And I need to bring their attention to your existence many times because it's outside of their very biased funnel. It's something they may not have considered or seen as they're just doing business as usual. It's helping them find this match between someone who has evolved to the next step at the very time that the organization or group or team is in need of somebody that can come in and help create more because they have become more clear and more ego-free and more— they have more access to the amazing kind of source of innovation because they've ditched their drama. See, innovation's their natural state once the drama's gone. So to evolve, you really need to move through— Yeah. the drama and distraction and then move really into this ability to innovate with others and facilitate and all the things that I teach you. Now, I have found that one of the best types of sponsorship I can give is not this matchmaking with you, highlighting you for a position, but simply in every chance and opportunity, in every situation I can find, is just passing the microphone Over to you. So if it's natural that people hand me the microphone in situations, whether they're volunteer or work or social, whether it's because people have come to trust some of my evolution and trust some of my insight and way of seeing the world, they want to give me the microphone. And so part of sponsorship is handing the microphone over to you. And that really is sponsoring because I've been given the microphone, I hand it to you, and then you personally yourself can share your perspective and others can hear your voice and hear your perspective and hear that it too, in a way, speaks a truth we can't argue with. See, there's a lot of arguing going on right now and there's a lot of opinions flying. But when somebody who has done a bit of work of evolution, just one tiny piece of working Through what they came here to work through, when they speak about it, arguments stop. People just kind of nod their head and they're like, yeah, that sounds so true. There's not much else we can talk about because it's not from the intellect. It's from the experience of evolution. It's from a truth revealed and lived and shared. And it's just that true. And so passing the microphone is— So important. You know, when I introduce you to a person or the world, when I'm your sponsor, I have a little bit of motive. I have motive to help you be heard or be seen. And so sponsorship's different from mentoring because sponsorship is really helping you get what role you need in the moment or in the organization. It's helping you get the role you need to contribute more. of what the organization needs to better use that which you have become. Once you've progressed into becoming who you want to be, you're going to need more challenges, not only to give more, but more challenges to help you figure out like what's left of your own ego. And this isn't always work challenges. Um, personally, when I went through my own divorce after a 20-year marriage, I was living with my kids and really doing a big chunk of evolutionary work for myself, really looking at not how I was wronged, but what my part in and what the message, my part in everything was and what the message was and where I needed to grow next. I was really doing that work and for this short amount of time, I felt like so enlightened. I was really blissful and my kids and I had like our routine down. We had very little conflict. We just, We were living a pretty effortless life, even though there were so many challenges. So it really was like, life's messy, live happy. And then I was introduced to my current husband, and that was my next evolutionary step. I felt so enlightened. And then with my second marriage, it really showed me what's left of my ego. Like, I went from feeling so enlightened to really understanding that I had so much more work to do, because if you evolve a bit and then don't move into the next challenge, your evolution just stalls, and you'll have this delusional sense of, you know, I've, I've arrived. And so sponsorship is really after we've mentored and I have confidence in your evolution, it's really giving you now evolved a little bit, the next step, a place to practice so that you can be shown your next role of evolution. It's really iterative. So let's talk about mentoring then. Mentoring is without motive. It isn't trying to get you what you want. It's trying to facilitate processes and make introductions to you, to people and experiences that will help you become who you're meant to be. And that's a bit different. So when people first ask me to be their mentor and they're willing, I usually also want to just hear from them that they're involved in their own evolutionary process of some sort, that they're a seeker, that they are experimental, that they're, they're willing to try a few things on for size that may not be a direct line to anything that they seek, that they really can move away from, I want to do this to get this, to I just want to become a better person and I want to move through the world more effortlessly. And so our early work in the relationship as a mentor is simply helping you make sense of the world. Mentors are— my belief is that the key role of a mentor is to help you make sense of the world you are in right now as it is, not to collude with you, not to hold a gripe session, not to agree with you that the world is so skewed, but to help you Love the world as it is right now. Because when you can love the world as it is right now, when you can unhook from all the ego hooks of your displeasure with the world and your knowing how it should be, when you can limit those distractions, you really can arrive at your own potential. And so ultimately, what you are able to provide the world is your potential. Minus all the distractions. And so evolution is about removing the distractions. And the first part of evolution, I think, is helping people understand why— making sense of the world and figuring out, you know, when you hurt, why the world hurts, how it works. And it's important that in my make— helping you make sense of the world, I help you make sense Not about how the world is rigged, but how you are moving through the world either unskillfully or unwillingly or with a less than modern approach. And so when a lot of people come to me and they're like, oh, you know, this is just— this job's undoable. And like, well, let's take this job that feels so undoable. It's the perfect learning environment because I think you're right, the job You're in, the life you're trying to live is undoable, especially with your current skill set, your current view of the world, your current approach, and your current level of willingness. So we've got to help you see more about the truth of the ancient principles, the universal principles. We've got to help you take a look at how your ego interferes with your willingness, how your approach maybe isn't modern, or how you need to up your skill set. And so a lot of people coming into being mentored, they're well steeped in some evolutionary work. And so the conversations in the beginning are a bit high level, but it's just helping them make sense of the world. It's just some great dialogue with, you know, helping you understand how it is and how it could be without all of the story. So Many people look for one person to be their mentor. And what I tell people is, if you look for one person, make sure that one person has a tribe that they give you mini internships with, that they introduce you to a whole tribe. Otherwise, get maybe one lead mentor, but get a tribe. And remember that mentors come at the time in your life that you need them. They are disposable. They are temporary. If you're with a mentor for a long time, they might be becoming a guru. And so just make sure that people are a mentor. that I teach reality-based leadership. I teach from my experience, but I hope that is only one tool in your toolkit because I'm revealing a truth to you, but it's the same truth everyone else is revealing, just with different language, potentially with a different perspective, with, you know, more wonderful examples. And when you look for a mentor, make sure that this person is involved in their own evolution. So that they can separate out what is their issue from your issue. So they really are what I would call good consultants. They're not giving you opinions. They're speaking from personal expertise, from their own evolution about what could work, not what is the way or what's the right way. They need to be able to highlight many ways to get, get, uh, um, more enlightened, so to speak, about a topic without ever believing that they know the right way. So mentors, you know, just have an idea for a next step and then just encourage you to bring your willingness and your openness and try that next step. So they aren't telling you, um, you know, this, this truth about what they know to be true. They're sharing a truth they've discovered and giving you just a lot of options for trying it on for yourself and moving through and making sense of it in your own way. So I think that's important when you're choosing a mentor. A lot of mentors do help people learn a truth, but not necessarily by telling you, because the power of a leader isn't what they tell you, it's what they get you thinking about. But there are some truths out there. There's some evidence-based truths. And so sometimes we have to start at the beginning point, which is helping people learn the truths about what's out there in positive psychology and what's out there in understanding neuroscience and what is out there that you may not even understand is a truth about how the world works. I have a very exciting guest coming up on our podcast, but he is really an expert in forgiveness and happiness. He teaches a course on happiness in a major university. And he just reveals some simple truths from his research. Happy people are happy because they choose to be happy. And then they practice behaviors all day long that lead to happiness, like forgiveness and reframing and gratitude and selective viewpoint. And so sometimes mentors just really lead us on an educational journey in the beginning and helping us understand some things we Didn't know or a memo we may have missed. And so part of that journey isn't sitting and listening to your mentor talk. If your mentor is a good one, and if you are a mentor, I want you to be a good one. So introduce people to great writers and researchers to read and get them listening to the best podcasts and really be this curator of great information. You're not the teacher, but you're the one who introduces them to all the wise ones in a variety of venues, my leaders, my mentors, I should say, have at times taught me very little because they're like, I know this on a cellular level because I learned it, but there's one who can give language to it and it's this person. Go hear them speak, go listen to their podcasts. And so my mentors have introduced me to science, to poetry, but most importantly, what they introduced me to is things that have evolved And that's what I like to introduce people to is things that have evolved me. So if you want a bit of what I have, let me tell you where I got it and let's expose you to some great thinkers and teachers. And so you have to be careful that mentorship isn't trying to teach somebody how the game is played or how the world works, because that's just passing on My story as a mentor. If you're teaching people what the life hacks are, a lot of times that's like seeped in your story of how the world is stacked against you. And that way, your people that you're mentoring will inherit the suffering. And a lot of times it's like you have somebody to collude with then. So good mentors, we've got to be meticulous about not colluding. People get plenty of collusion elsewhere. That is not what they need when they come to you. Hardest push from a mentor should be for someone to figure out why this, whatever is happening that's causing them pain, why it's happening in their favor, why it's happening for the good, what this is working to teach them, or what it's pointing out, or what the universe is whispering or screaming to them at the moment to help them get what they came for in this lifetime so that they can evolve as fully as they can. And so don't let people off the hook. Don't have a whole mentoring session talking about how others, if only others were better, this would be easier and how we're not like them. And I mean, it gets so easy to collude with the people you mentor because they're usually super smart and super bright and super talented. And the world is doing them wrong in that story viewpoint. But your job isn't to help them be upset with the world. It's to help them understand where they need to grow next, where they can evolve so that they can move beyond what's really tripping them up right now. So mentoring's giving a lot of hard assignments for self-reflection. It is longer term, although temporary. It's big evolution stuff. It's about your big leaps forward. It's different than coaching, in my opinion, because coaching Which I love, is also based in self-reflection. But coaching a lot of times is about making some important adjustments to get back or stay on course, where mentoring is about helping people see the world completely differently, like leapfrog into kind of a big next step. Coaching's still about asking questions and getting people to tune into their own natural wisdom. How did it feel? How did it work, what's that no ego part of yourself leading you to do differently? Like, how do you trust some of that wisdom and notice when it's a distraction or whether you're kind of in the zone? And at times giving people feedback about, I've noticed this, and, but always with a, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself. And coaching is meant to be more goal-specific. If you want X, Mm-hmm. Let's put it on project status and remove the distractions and free you up to deliver something you're probably already capable of. And it's a lot about action, about now that you know better, go do better. Let me hold space for you to be accountable to doing better and really get what you came for in this moment. But mentoring is different. It's about helping someone evolve into that person that they may have even been avoiding. It's to help people to stop playing small and really become and step into who you're capable of. Empowerment isn't having somebody empower you, it's stepping into the power you already have. Now, if you're a mentor, I want you to get really honest with your own self-reflection because you can't mentor if you're not evolving yourself. Qualified mentors are not those who have arrived and have some position or who crashed the glass ceiling and made it to the top. That's who people look at for mentors. They're like, I want what you have. And so I'm going to do what you did and somehow I'm going to get there. But mentors aren't the people who have arrived seemingly. They are the people who are living peacefully in the world facilitating great things. They're the alchemists. I mean, that's a wonderful book a lot of mentors assign. If you haven't read, read The Alchemist. It's— mentors are the ones who can add that which is missing, and they can get you in a position to add what's missing. Not get what you want, but bring what the world needs that you have in your very own special formula. So it's not about teaching you how to get what you believe from that ego standpoint is missing in your life. It's about getting you to a place where you can freely add what's missing in the lives of others. They're really kind of the Merlins, the, the, the, you know, great teachers. They don't help you get what you want or what your motives are. If so, that's more sponsorship and I think less meaningful. They facilitate you letting go of even needing what you want and help you realize that you're here to give what others need without expectation or motive. And this is really important. Too many people come to a mentor with a goal of getting what they want. And if your mentor is at all good, they get you to release your need for what you want, that attachment, and get you evolving So that you have something great to give and then help you understand that it's not about you getting what's missing in your life, but that you bringing to the table what's missing in the work world or in the volunteer world. And mentors are able to trust the process. They're able to let you wander. They don't have a tight road for you to walk because they can even get more excited watching you in the downtimes because they're excited about what incredible things going right into the fire. will bring you. Getting close to that ring of fire, as Martha Beck talks about, because they really trust the process of how the universe works. And they really know that living with a reflective stance on the world will shape you. And they know that there's really like no mistakes. It's like the yoga class I went to. And when I first was doing yoga, people would say, namaste, namaste, namaste. And I really thought they were saying no mistakes. No mistakes. No mistakes. I'm like, okay, well, I get that it's a practice and that you can't make mistakes, but mentors really know that there's just no mistakes in life, that everything happens for a reason. Everything is a wonderful lesson. Everything is shaping you. And they're there to help with the shaping. So they don't need to create hardship or— life gives you plenty of that. Reality is tough. Mentoring is the love behind that. As Rachel Harris would say, girl, wash your face, step up, and let's learn from this. So to be a better mentor, if you are in that relationship, stop using the mentoring relationship to help people understand how to win, because that's just winning in the ego games of the world. And instead, help them learn to experience a world without ego. Mentors are so necessary right now, I've realized. I thought it was outdated and outgrown, and I just wished at one point we'd quit talking about mentoring. And it just seemed like we're admitting that we're broken and less than, especially women who need mentors when men don't. And it just— it seemed like we're admitting to some disability we don't have. But I realize now that the world needs mentors now more than ever. They're so— necessary right now to prepare the true leaders in, in this world, not to mentor people, to equip them to get their fair share in the current system. The world's abundant if we're beyond ego, but while we're all in ego right now, the world's running out. The world is scarce. I like to have an abundant mindset, but folks, we have a lot of scarcity in the world because we are in ego and people are panicking and everybody's trying to get their fair share. And we're We're really using resources and time and intellectual property in a way that is not sustainable. So I really want us to resurrect mentoring, but a different kind of mentoring, more Yoda-like mentoring, I guess, more Socrates, more grasshopper type of mentoring, because it's about helping people deliver their fair share to the solutions we need in the world, not how to get their fair share In the world. And I've seen too many mentoring relationships say, I grabbed my fair share and now I'll help you get yours. And I just don't think that's what mentoring's about. I think mentoring's about evolving people to their next place where they can give more of what's needed to the solutions that we need in the world to actually save the world. I wanna mentor people to help them find their key, their physical key that they can bring to open their part of this elaborate locked system. If everybody finds their key and we all stick our keys in the lock and we all turn it in the right combo, you guys, this is going to open something huge. And as corny as that sounds, we need people that can help and bring that to be. So mentoring again is all about making sense of the world, how we do this, how we help people find their key and plug and play and bring their part of the solution to the table. How this happens is Making sense of the world, not telling people what's right or good, but many times disclosing some of your own learning as a mentor. I do a lot of disclosure, not to teach people the lesson I learned, because that's what I needed at the time, but just to show them what doing this whole process looks like. You can't mentor if you're not doing it yourself. And I've had such amazing things from mentors. I had one mentor who just shared with me how hiking had opened up whole new worlds for her. And she didn't tell me I needed to become a hiker. That's how to become a enlightened. She did give me an assignment once and she said, no, go out and hike and find something that catches your eye in the natural world and then sit down and ask your question to that physical object. And she said, you need to come up with a question. I thought, this is such a wacky assignment, but okay. And so I came up with a question about how I could be a better parent to one of my kids in that moment of his life. And I walked out and I My eye was caught by a flower, and I sat down by this flower feeling so hippie-dippy. And I'm asking the flower, you know, how can I do that? And as I looked at the flower, I saw that the flower was so beautiful, and I even touched it. The flower itself was so soft and kind. It was pure white. It was just—it just made you feel good being in its presence. It just was really nurturing and tender. And yet I saw that its stem was almost wood-like. It was very straight. It was square. It was very. Able to bend in the wind but not break, and as corny as this whole thing sounds, I found my and how I could be so kind and loving to this child but be very clear with my boundaries. And so that was just like one of those crazy examples that someone gave me. So really helping people understand what evolution is and showing them because you are doing it yourself—not that you have done it, but you're doing it. You're right alongside them, but you have. some things to share. And so when I'm asked like, what are my favorite books, my favorite business books, I actually have kind of a hard time giving people a title. I don't read that many business books because a big part of mentoring is taking the issue at face value and not trying to counter it with more learning about how to break through that issue. It's trying to evolve the person so that they can come at that issue with a higher level of consciousness, a different mindset. So my mentors, my best best mentors have never assigned me business books. They have asked me to discover books like A Course in Miracles or experiences like hiking or transcendental meditation, or they've introduced me to the poets David Whyte and Mary Oliver. They've introduced me to teachers like Byron Katie or experiences like yoga. And it is, stop thinking about this with the same thing that brought us here. That's insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results, thinking you could just read one more business book and some secret weapon that you can unlock some big door so you can get promoted just haven't been what my mentors have been about. They're like, let's evolve you. And so they introduced me to experiences and poetry and science and stuff that just isn't a direct line to the next life hack to, you know, somehow win or get other people to do what I want them to do. It's not about mind control of others. It's about me realizing I never even realized or needed them to deliver what I thought they needed to deliver in the first place. So I want to leave you with, um, one of my best gifts I got recently from a mentor. I went to talk with her about developing the virtue of patience. I usually am a pretty patient person, but I had gotten very impatient with someone in my life and the progress they were making. And what I thought their goals were, and I realized they were probably just my goals. And what she revealed to me, a lesson to ponder on, is, you know, she said patience isn't about the ability to wait. It's really how you act while you're waiting. And so everybody has the ability to wait. Everybody, you know, somebody else holds the key to something, they have the ability to hold it and not give it to you. That's not what patience is about is having stamina to endure things. It's really about getting and being well-behaved while you wait. And those are the type of profound wisdom bombs that the people in my life have me working on. So I hope that you find good mentors, ones that won't help you just get to the next level at work, but ones that will help you move beyond who you are today. And free you up from the grip of your ego and give you some access to universal principles and wisdom, reveal some truth and let you try it on for size that really will change how you see the world and change how you move through the world. I wish for you good mentoring, whether you are the mentor or you are the mentee. But I do think it's time that we Really enriched the view we have on mentoring. And so I thought it was such an important topic, I wanted to give that to you today. So if you are a mentor, your assignment this week is take some inventory, some stock. Are you trying to help people win a game that is a completely wrong game, or are you helping to really get leaders to move beyond ego so that they are so prepared to plug and play in a very peaceful way on the dialogue and solutions that we need going forward. And if you are a mentee, check your motive. Make sure you're not going to get some secret word on how to pass through. Make sure you're going to get what you came for and evolve in a way that you can live all of your life happier, because the world is super messy, but you can live happy. I hope you all have a great week. This is the No Ego Podcast. Welcome to the podcast where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Cy Wakeman.