S2E23: Adrienne Edgar, Director of Talent Enablement, Nutanix

Welcome listeners to another episode of the No Ego Podcast. Before I get into my interview with the fabulous Adrienne Edgar, I want to remind you that Global Forces Work Human Conference is coming up in Nashville and you don't want to miss it. So if you're not registered, I'm going to help entice you a bit. You can get $300 off the conference Just using the code WH19CY, WH19CY, gets you $300 off your registration fee. And I want to see you there. I get a keynote again, 3rd year in a row, but I'm in such great company. George Clooney, Viola Davis, Gina, um, David, and Brené Brown. It's going to be phenomenal. I'll see you there. Get out there, get registered. Everybody who misses this conference is bummed afterwards because it's just unlike any other HR conference I've ever been to. So make sure and get registered. This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your workplace. I'm Sy Wakeman. Welcome listeners to another episode of the No Ego Podcast, Season 2. And this season, as you remember, we are talking about evolution and working in no ego workplaces. And so I bring people in that have taught me a lot and people I meet that are really doing some cool things to help their leaders lead in no ego ways. And I recently met Adrienne Edgar, who's my guest today. She's the Director of Talent For engineering and project management at Nutanix. And that's a great title, but it really means that her key function is out amongst the leaders, helping them be great coaches. And as I was talking to her, she's just one of those folks that has really cool techniques that she's developed from her years of coaching and really driving self-reflection. And, you know, to me, self-reflection Foundation of Accountability, Death to the Ego. It's a fantastic ego bypass. So I wanted to bring her on. Adrienne, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Thanks so much, Sy. It's a pleasure to be with you.

I was so excited when we met because, of course, my message talks about the, you know, self-reflection is the ultimate drama diffuser and the ego bypass. And we immediately kind of started exchanging techniques, and you just have some wonderful things to share with our leaders. But before Before we get into some of the specifics, I'd like to help HR and leaders who are listening know how some of the evolved workplaces are choosing to do HR a bit differently. And even though you're Director of Talent, you sit out in the business, correct?

That's correct. Yes, it is.

Help me understand how that idea came to be and whether it's something you would recommend to our listeners to change the structure a bit where you're embedded and responsible to the business unit?

Yeah, sure. Well, I can say that, you know, just a little bit about my background, it's been pretty varied. You know, I started my professional life actually as a registered nurse. So, I'm a people person. I love dealing with people, and I like working and interacting. Once I realized there was a little bit of a glass ceiling in terms of where I was going with nursing, I turned my focus into more of a learning and development lens. And I started working within pharmaceuticals. And I worked in L&D in a fairly traditional L&D HR-based role, which I totally loved and adored and realized that that was kind of where I wanted to be, but in a wider scope. So, not just focused on health, but wider. So, that started my third pivot, which was really working as a consultant to all sorts of businesses. Working in leadership change and communication. So, I think with this role, what's very interesting is that my consulting background gave me the ability to actually see that flexibility in coaching is really key, like being able to stand back and be impartial and objective and actually there for the person, the team, or the group that you're coaching. Is really essential for building trust. And so, when I joined Nutanix, there was a deliberate decision made that I would work with the business and then liaise with the wider HR function. And I think that what that has helped me to do is to really be an advocate and a true coach for individuals where they can be kind of no-holds-barred. They can tell me exactly what's going on. There's no judgment. I'm not there to do anything other than help them build their performance. It also, interestingly enough, has enabled me to be very nimble. And I think that's another really important part of coaching is that it's an in-the-moment kind of thing if it's going to be successful. And so, by being part of the business, I can really access leaders who are decision-makers If things need to change, if processes need to be implemented, if we need to get some budget to run some initiatives, there's a lot of bureaucracy that we cut out just by being in the business. So, I've found it to be really rewarding that way. And then, from a functional perspective, I simply have great visibility over the groups that I'm working with. I'm sitting on their floor amongst them, so I hear the conversations. Yeah. I, I'm a, I'm a shameless eavesdropper, but I keep all that information to myself. But I love it because I know the vibe. I can feel it. I can feel the tension. I can feel when a release is about to happen. And I, and I can be a safety valve for, for a lot of the leaders as they, as they approach some of these really high-stress situations.

Gosh, there is so much to unpack. I love what I saw you doing, which is really living so many of the recommendations we make, you are living them out loud. And I think it's been really difficult for a lot of HR groups where they adopt a coaching model, which is pretty rigid, right? Mm-hmm. And they want to go out from HR and like apply this model onto people. And it's kind of like, hi, we're here to help. And I have found coaching just doesn't work that way. People are, you know, ask me often like, what's the secret to your coaching? And So to unpack it, I think the first secret you shared is your evolution. You yourself have done some work. You've evolved from nurse to pharmaceutical to L&D to coaching. And I find a lot of times those of us that want to coach, um, get in it for kind of an ego reason. Like, I want to coach because I want to, you know, fix people instead of I want to coach because I am just willing to walk with people on the path of evolution, mine and theirs. And your energy just speaks to that, um, that willingness to just be present and empathetic and, um, messy, get in the mess, but call people up. So I love that you can build trust by being there, right there, non-judgmentally as, as one of them.

And I, I think you touched on a really important point, which is I think the evolution is important because I've lived a lot of life and I've lived, you know, I've lived in situations where I, I probably was an ego and the way that I reacted ultimately didn't get me the result I was looking for. And where I've evolved to is actually helping myself, but also helping other people get the results they're looking for. And I think There is kind of this interesting thing around coaching, which is, it's called confusion. A lot of people are really confused about what it is, what it isn't. There's so many methodologies. And the question I'm often asked is, what's the pathway to coaching? How do you— what did you do? What were all the— what's the training I should do? And my answer to people is, it completely depends on on, on, on your life, on your evolution and what you're doing. But, but mostly what it depends on is your willingness to not be right all the time, because coaching is not actually about being right. And I find that—

Exactly. It's not about telling people what to do. The, the power of a coach is what you get them reflecting on and tapped into, not what you tell

them. Exactly. So it's much less about you telling people stuff. And much more about you listening and empathizing. And then, when the time is right and you can see that there are some things that you can bring into the conversation, you bring it then. But you bring it in as a partner and you do it according to what's going to really work and resonate for people. So, for me, coaching can— it's on a spectrum. Sometimes, with the more junior people I'm coaching, It might be a little more tell-directed because I'm actually giving them some information that they might find helpful for managing their teams. For a senior leader, I'm listening and I'm hearing that this person who has a lot of stress, there's a lot of high-visibility stuff that's going on. And it's their humanness actually. They just need somebody that they can be vulnerable with and say stuff to. Without being judged. And so that's what I love about coaching, actually, is that it's a spectrum. And, and you have to be present and in the moment. And most of all, your intention in coaching really is about the other person, not about yourself. It's just about being where they need to be and going where they need to go.

I love so much of what you're saying, because when you're in high self, when your toggle switched up, when you're beyond ego, you had so many keywords in here where it's being neutral and It's being present for a present partner as somebody else walks through. And yeah, there are times where we're just teaching people how their mind works or teaching people some things from the research that we know that might be a better approach or helping them have a little bit of insight into what they do. That's kind of the, the spectrum when somebody is newer in role or newer in this workplace. Um, but a lot of times it's just organic. I too, people ask me, it's like, can you create a coaching course that teaches us how to coach like no ego? And, um, Sai, how do you know, even my own coaches, they, they want to know like, how do I, you know, how do you know in the moment, like what to ask? Like there's a decision tree. And it sounds very woo-woo, but when I'm in no ego, when I'm in that high self, I swear if I just plug in and be fully present, it plugs me into this bigger source that it's almost sometimes like my head opens up and something comes in that I've never said before, never asked before.

Mm-hmm.

It's just a way of seeing something that isn't something I learned, but I did learn to unhook from ego and to evolve to the point where I could access that level of information. And so it's hard to explain. It's not a course you take, although I've taken courses and learned techniques that were helpful. It's, um, but it's really, um, organic at times, um, to get there. And there are times I coach well, and there are times that I don't coach well. Um, and I just, I love hearing words like neutral, nimble, flexible. It's not one size fits all. Coaching isn't something you do to another. It is the process of, for me, holding space for someone to self-reflect. Yeah. Most of the work I do isn't telling, it's just holding space to say, let's take a moment and let's just tune in. What's it feel like? You know, are you operating out of best self? What would great look like? Like, what do you need to change? Like, it's just this moment where you actually, um, can just be there for another person without expectations. And I think there is a lot of confusion. And I think too many times we're sending out Um, are lesser skilled folks to the business to be coaches, and they haven't really practiced it themselves. They know a model. They haven't really— it's really building some cynicism in the business about the power of coaching. And I'm sad about that sometimes. Yes, totally.

And, and, and I, I completely agree with you. And I think, um, a couple of additional comments that I would make that, that build on what you've just said. You know, the other thing for me that's unique about coaching is that for me, it's a personal connection with my coachee. And that doesn't mean that I can't be objective. But what that means is that setting context with coaching is really important so that you— so that the person who's receiving the— you know, who's working with you and you're coaching them understands that I'm going to be here for you. Like, I'm actually in this room for this hour. You can say whatever you want, and I'm not here to judge you. That's not what we're gonna do. We're actually gonna focus on your truth, what's going on for you, and then from there, what we do is we build a plan together. And I think, you know, it sounds like such a subtle thing, but to build the context with somebody that I'm not gonna judge you, You can just say what you're going to say, and then I'm going to keep it very confidential. This isn't going to go anywhere. It's between you and me. So it's a personal contract, actually. And we have fun. You know, I think fun is an essential part of coaching. You know, we laugh, we giggle. Yeah. I share my stories, you know, because I think part of being a great coach is being able to share with people the times when you, you know, using your using your lovely word, when you've been an ego and that has not helped you. And so I think the business background that I have too, working in nursing and then coming into pharmaceuticals where I managed budgets and did all of that, I can tell them my stories. I can be vulnerable with them and show them. And so when you're modeling that with people, they open up and they realize this is not about me being perfect actually. This is about me just getting real and I've got a person here who's going to listen and not judge. And I think that's an important part. The second comment, just very quickly, that I'd say to you is you're absolutely right about sending out coaches who sometimes are just not equipped to really work with the people. And that can be because they are really coming in in a much more transactional manner with frameworks and techniques and tools. But they haven't taken the time to really understand the person or the background. And they really don't have maybe the history or experience to be able to share. And I think that lets both sides down. So I think that's true. And the other thing that I would say is I've had many times I've been told, well, you know, we reserve coaching for our very senior people. You know, it's kind of like a privilege thing. And I lost that part of me a long time ago, which is coaching starts at child level. You know, I mean, my son and I have coaching conversations all the time, and actually he's coaching me a lot. Absolutely. Kids are really real and they tell you stuff and they ask you very insightful questions that you think, wow, I don't know what the answer to that is. I have to think about that. And so for me, coaching is Completely. It's, it's a lifespan thing. You know, everybody, everybody can benefit from coaching regardless of, of where you sit, what your tenure is, you know, and just the way that coaching will apply will be different.

It really, really is. I think that's probably why it was love at first sight. I always end our podcast with, um, a, an assignment, um, for self-reflection or learning, um, just to keep with that coaching model. And this time I think I'm going to give an assignment that will connect people to one another, whether people are coaches or not, if they're just parents, leaders, whatever. I would love for our listeners to do some crowdsourcing. Go out to someone, and none of us are the perfect coaches or have the silver bullet tool, but ask the question when you're around someone you've respected, just what's been a moment for them where they felt like they really were able to show up as a good coach and have them tell you About it, have them share the technique they use that created that space, because we really need to create these spaces for self-reflection. So let's crowdsource. Let's pick the brain of others like I was able to do to Adrian and just ask people kind of what's a good technique that helps you stay in your neutral role and helps others kind of unpack and self-reflect. And I would love to hear from, um, our listeners, their best, uh, techniques, their best ideas that they've collected. So let's focus on being better coaches. Yeah. And being a better coach usually involves not doing more, but doing something more subtle and sophisticated. So let's up our game. And thank you, Adrienne. I really appreciate you spending time with us today. This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama and entitlement and transform your workplace. I'm Cy Wakeman.