S2E34: Dr. James R. Doty, M.D. Cultivating Compassion

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Sy Wakeman. Welcome to another episode of the No Ego Podcast. Listeners, I'm a little jumbled in my thinking because I'm so excited about our guest today. As promised in this season, I'm bringing to you those folks that are out either helping us all be more egoless lived more evolved lives, people that have taught me and made an impact on my life. And I'm here to tell you that Dr. James Doty is just one of those people. I'm gonna give a quick intro and then we're gonna get him talking because you're gonna love what he has to say. Dr. Doty is the founder and director of the Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education at Stanford University. And as you get to know more about him, you'll know that he's got a wonderful connection with His Holiness the Dalai Lama and The Dalai Lama was one of the founding benefactors of this effort. But most importantly for me, he's the author of the book Into the Magic Shop, and it is a wonderful kind of neurosurgeon's quest to discover the mysteries of the brain and the secrets of the heart. And listeners, you know, anything that brings science and compassion and spiritual kind of universal principles together is, is my game. So welcome, Dr. Dodi. I'm so glad that you're here.

Well, thank you for having me. It's really A pleasure and a joy. And, uh, thank you to your listeners for, uh, taking the time, uh, to spend with us today.

Absolutely. They are coming to look forward to the incredible guests I get on, um, the program. So it's hard to know where to start. I think a great introduction before we get to your current work would be to talk a bit about the story that you wrote about in the book Into the Magic Shop. Is that an okay place for you to start? Of

course, sure. So what I always say is that one, if someone took the time, every human being has a profound and fascinating story about their life because every human being suffers, every human being overcomes difficulties, every human being interacts with other people who have taught them lessons in their lives. So everyone has a story. And the other reality is that everyone has a backstory. And what I mean by that is that the events that happen to an individual growing up, especially during their, quote unquote, formative years, frequently has a significant impact on who they become as adults or how they lead their lives. And certainly, That is the case with me as well.

Definitely. I want to just interrupt for one second. That backstory and this story of their lives, and what lead— what listeners might not know yet is you're a neurosurgeon. So as just a surgeon, um, how important was it to you to get to know that story and backstory? Did it change the way you were able to work with people in, in the healing process? And then is it easy to lose as a surgeon?

Well, I think that certainly my own backstory has helped me understand the nature of suffering. And also, as a neurosurgeon, oftentimes the interaction someone or their family has with me ends up being one of the most important, if not the most important, in their lives.

Yeah.

And I certainly don't take that responsibility lightly. And from my own perspective, As a physician, it's an honor and a privilege to be given the gift of caring for other people and having their lives essentially in your hands. So I certainly want to acknowledge that. Getting back to the original question about my own background, as you know from having read my book, which Actually is a memoir versus a biography. It tells not every aspect of my life, but a great deal of it. But it's also intertwined with neuroscience and what we call contemplative practice. So my story begins as a child in a family where my father was challenged with alcoholism. And my mother, at a young age, or I should say when I was young, probably around 4 or 5, had had a stroke and was partially paralyzed. And as a result of that stroke, and probably certainly contributed to by my father's situation, she was chronically depressed. And we were on public assistance essentially my entire life as a child until I moved away. And went to college. And she attempted suicide multiple times, which certainly as a child in that environment is very challenging to deal with, especially with an often absent father. So that was my environment. Oftentimes I did not feel as if I was being nurtured appropriately. I was scared. As we know today, living in such an environment that is chaotic and unpredictable causes It causes a form of post-traumatic stress disorder in many children. And in fact, there's an area of science now called adverse childhood experiences whereby we know that if a child experiences things such as I described, mental illness, drug and alcohol abuse, poverty, violence, et cetera, The likelihood of them overcoming their childhood is very, very low. And to be, quote unquote, a success in life or in society can be quite challenging. So at the age of 12, I was becoming a juvenile delinquent and I had anger, I had fear, I had anxiety, I had despair and hopelessness. And in the middle of all of that, one of the things I would do to get away from my home environment was I would ride my Stingray bicycle, and I grew up in the high desert. I would ride it out into the desert as fast sometimes and as far as I could go. And during one of those experiences, I ran across a strip mall a ways from my home, and in the strip mall was a magic shop. And I liked magic, and I went into this shop, and the reality was the owner was not there. But his mother was there. And his mother knew nothing about the magic in the store, but she knew about people. And many of us meet people who immediately we feel comfortable with. And they're typically people who are open. They have radiant smiles. They're not judging you. And we like those people. And we like to be around those people because they create a sense of psychological safety. You feel protected. You don't feel as if you're being judged. You feel that they're treating you as an equal. And that was the case with this woman whose name was Ruth. And we had a conversation and she actually asked me some fairly penetrating questions. And I actually answered her honestly, where normally I would not share with people my background or my particular situation, but I felt comfortable with her. And as a result, I told her a little bit about my life. And after about 20 or 30 minutes, Ruth, And she said, I'm here for the rest of the summer, which was 6 weeks. And she said, if you come every day, I'll teach you something that could change your life, I think. Now, how many of us are ever in a situation where someone would say that to us, or frankly, where someone would reach out to offer you that kind of an experience?

Which is one of the things I just love about your story, is you have this backstory of suffering, but you also have this counterweight of somebody who had done their own work and really cared about you enough to say, hey, I'm here, let's see if I can give you some things that are helpful. It just— it's, you know, one of the— the way people get to be resilient often is through their ability to connect in with somebody else.

And And oftentimes that somebody else is someone who's also suffered.

Yeah.

So this woman, over the period of about 6 weeks, we would meet for an hour and a half to 2 hours in the back room of this magic shop. And certainly nowadays, if you said you were meeting with a woman in her 50s as a 12-year-old, that would probably be frowned upon. But perhaps these were more innocent days. Nonetheless, I did meet with her, and the first thing she taught me, and I call it Ruth's trick number one, if you will, was to recognize that I was always moving around, couldn't sit still. I was sort of tense. And of course, when you live in a chaotic environment and you don't know what's going to happen next, it's hard to stay focused. And you always feel potentially in a situation of threat or fear. And so the first thing she taught me was what is now called a body survey when we talk about mindfulness, which is a technique to just sit still, relax your muscles, and breathe in and out. And by doing so— and I have to say this took me some practice, and I didn't really even understand what was happening— it also allows you to attend, because when you can stop sort of all this stuff that's going on, you're able to attend and be present. And we know that being present is important if you're going to learn, but it's also critically important if you're going to connect with others. And so the first thing she taught me was how to breathe and to relax. And we know that with this type of breathing slowly in and then releasing it out, what happens is that The nature of doing that causes an interesting physiologic response. It causes you to shift the tone in your vagus nerve to increase it. And when you do so, it shifts you from a fear response or engagement of your sympathetic nervous system, which is what is associated with the flight, fight, or fear response, which is an ancient response to threat, to what we call your rest and digest state. system. And when your vagal tone— and this is the nerve that mediates the back and forth traffic between the brainstem and all the organs in your body, but is especially represented in the heart— when that is engaged, you have a tendency to slow your heart rate, decrease your blood pressure, boost your immune system, decrease the expression of inflammatory hormones, and decrease your cortisol levels. And you feel calm and relaxed. And as a result, you're open and your area in your brain called the executive control area functions at its best. And this is how we make discerning opinions about things, about how to react to things. And it also is associated with increased creativity, increased productivity. So the first thing she taught me And once I was able to do that, the next thing she taught me was how to appreciate that the dialogue that was going on in my head, which I think everyone has, and frankly, for most people, it is not one of positivity or self-affirmation, but one of hypercriticality. Yeah. And so I had to learn how to listen to that dialogue. Is one that is not you. You think it's you, but it's not you. It's an artificial construct. And the reason these negative terms stick to us is because when everything is going perfect, we don't need to worry. It's with threat that things stick to us, and oftentimes these negative dialogues or comments that stick to us are perceived as a threat, and and that's why they have a tendency to stick with us. So once she taught me that, this then allowed me to. Not have a physiologic response to that negativity. So that was really quite important because once I was able to understand that the negative dialogue was not me, in some ways it allowed me to see the world in a different way. And what I mean by that is that once I realized the negative terminology or the hypercriticality or the negative thoughts that I was having wasn't me, then it allowed me to change those thoughts. Because when you sit there and say to yourself, I can't, it's not possible, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, that becomes your reality.

Absolutely. And it's the power of questioning your thinking. I think at that moment for All of us, when somehow it dawns on us that we're not the one doing the thinking and we're kind of the observer, it just in that space provides so many more options. And reality just isn't ever as harsh as it seems in our mind. That's what I have found.

No, I think that's exactly right. So I use the analogy that when you repeatedly say negative things to yourself, you are starting to lay the bricks of a prison for yourself. And the more and more you hear these things, the more bricks you lay to the point where it starts getting smaller and smaller and you're beginning to not let light in. And when she taught me, as I was saying, that this was not a reality or that the terminology I was using was in no way me, it was an artificial construct, it allowed me to change those comments from ones of negative— Excuse me. To change the comments from one of negativity to self-affirmation, positivity, and to feel that I deserved love and was worthy of love, and in fact could do anything I wanted to do. And this had a really a profound, profound effect. The other reality is when you were filled with self-loathing, with shame, where you feel you're not good enough and you're hypercritical, it taints the way you look at the world in general and also. Yeah,

you judge others, I think, as harsh as you judge yourself. It really closes you off from compassion, for sure.

Exactly. So when you're able to be self-compassionate— and basically that was the lesson she taught me— it allows you then to open your heart to others and recognize that essentially everyone is suffering.

Yeah.

And so as a result, It really changed my entire view of the world. And while I tell people that following the period of time I spent with this incredible woman, my personal circumstance did not change one iota, how I reacted to the world in fact did change.

Which is true freedom. I mean, when your circumstances can be the same but you have an ability to move through the world more skillfully, it's just to me That's just the ultimate freedom.

No, I think that's right. And I think the other thing that happens is you no longer carry fear with you. And the thing is that when people don't like themselves, when people are so hypercritical and judgmental of others, people have— and this is an ability all humans have, you know, we can read microfacial expressions. body habitus, even sense smells, which tell us the emotional states of others. And if you see someone who is carrying fear and anxiety, you know, oftentimes people don't want to be around you. The other reality for me was that once I had this experience with this woman, I no longer felt anger towards my parents. You know, my father had challenging circumstances himself. Growing up, and unfortunately he did not have the tools to effectively deal with that.

So that leads, you know, forgiveness isn't I'm gonna forget or make it okay. Forgiveness— I mean, compassion is really the route to forgiveness, where I just understand that he too was suffering. We had Dr. Luskin on talking about forgiveness, so some of our listeners will connect your incredible work at Stanford with his, to etox of compassion and the route to forgiveness.

No, Fred has actually worked with me and our group quite a bit because, of course, his program is wonderful. And he's found that our compassion cultivation training is also very helpful within his own work.

Absolutely. So you went out in— I don't want to give the book away, but you went out into the world really helped by Ruth. But that didn't ensure that you were enlightened. Evolution was done. Life was good. Your circumstances were And so how did that play out as, as you went on from really challenging childhood to, you know, as we know now, a neurosurgeon who's studying compassion? I know it was a bit of a bumpy road.

Sure. Well, first of all, until you believe something is possible, it's not possible. So after this experience with Ruth, I really believed I could do anything. And as I mentioned in the book, in the 4th grade, we had a doctor come and visit our class, and he was so compassionate, so nice, that I immediately at that moment decided to become a doctor. Well, wanting to become a doctor and becoming a doctor are certainly 2 different things, but ultimately the belief that That I could go to college and medical school allowed me to do so. And in the book, I talk about the fact that college was quite challenging because one, I was ill-prepared to go to college, and two, during college I had to work and I had to leave multiple times to deal with my father being in jail or my mother being in the hospital following a suicide attempt And of course, that's not the ideal environment for studying and getting good grades. And in fact, when it came time to apply to medical school, my grade point average actually was quite low comparative— compared to my peers. And a story I share in the book, is that at my college and at that time, you had to get a letter from this pre-med committee, which would be forwarded to the medical school. And they could give you a recommend with highest recommendation, recommend, not recommended, recommended with reservations, et cetera. And so when I went to ask for my interview and the average grade point average at that time getting into medical school was about a 3.79, My grade point average was 2.53, I believe. And obviously this in no way is competitive. And when I went to ask the secretary for appointment to have this interview, she refused to give it to me. And I asked her why, and she looked at me and she said, because it's a waste of everyone's time. Now imagine as a human being to be told by somebody that you're a waste of their time. I mean, how horrible and demoralizing. Yeah. But I looked at this woman and I said, well, I appreciate your opinion. I'm not leaving here until you give me an appointment. And ultimately she did give me an appointment. And I then showed up and I walked into a room and there were 3 people basically with their arms crossed and I was across the table from them. And the chairman of this Committee, took my file and threw it on the table. And he said, you got your appointment. Let's get this over with. And obviously, this is not an open, friendly conversation that's going to happen. And I looked at this man and I said to him, before he said anything else, I said, who gave you the right to destroy people's dreams? And then I proceeded to lecture the 3 of them for about 45 minutes, telling them that I refused to be objectified as a grade point average and that my life was more than that and that it was not fair that they would make a judgment based on one number. And at the end of this conversation, which was somewhat one-sided, they ended up actually all crying.

Oh my goodness.

But, uh, and then giving me the highest, uh, letter of recommendation you can receive. And the reason is, is that when you force people to look at you truly as a human being and not as a number or some other, um, uh, gauge, artificial gauge of who you are, they can't look away. They see your humanity. So following that, as I was leaving this room with these individuals, the secretary who had been listening, she handed me a brochure, and it was a green mimeographed piece of paper. And most of your listeners probably don't remember what a mimeograph machine was, but this is before there were copying machines. She handed this to me and she said, you know, I think you could benefit from this program. And what it was was a summer enrichment program for pre-med students who were socioeconomically disadvantaged or minority students, and it was at Tulane. And she said to me, she said, I want to let you know though, the deadline has passed, but I don't think that will impact you. So I ended up actually calling the woman who ran the program, and in fact, she let me into the program. I spent the summer there, and it was incredibly powerful for me on many levels. And ultimately, I applied to one medical school and was accepted to one medical school, and that was Tulane. And that's That's from where I graduated, and I had no problem with the academics or the curriculum. And again, this is the importance of giving someone a chance because people can surprise you. Because a lot of times people make judgments about you or have biases towards you which really are not true. And when you give someone a chance,

Absolutely. And what I love about what you said is, you know, judgment's a way we can disconnect from people, objectify them, and decreases their humanness, but decreases ours. We don't have to feel the pain of limiting somebody's future. And if you can connect in on a human level, I think the Dalai Lama— I mean, that's basically so much of what he teaches is if we remember we're all human, we're all connected, we're all in this together, we can make connected, a difference. it really— there's no way to look away. And I think that's so key. And in the business world, as so many of us look at, you know, we're calling people like, you know, human capital. And I mean, the more we can kind of objectify the human out of it, the more we can make decisions that are really, you know, not as conscious as we would want our capitalistic society to be, perhaps.

No, I think you're right. And I think that Unfortunately, a lot of businesses look at employees not as people but as cogs in a machine, and a cog is easily replaced by another cog. And when somebody feels that way, it decreases their productivity. They work under fear. And sadly, this is more true than it is not in business. I talk to businesses and employees every day. And also certainly in healthcare. And there's an epidemic of stress, anxiety, depression within the workplace. And in fact, if you look at some large self-insured companies like Google as an example, the highest expenditure in terms of healthcare costs in this otherwise healthy population isn't diabetes or heart disease, it's stress, anxiety, and depression. And sadly, there's an epidemic of this in modern society. And I think that's a really important point. It

really is. I wish we would have the class of Ruth for all of us starting in kindergarten or before. Just, you know, if we could just teach people to breathe and to kind of quiet those voices in their head and feel what an open heart really feels like, you know, once they figured out their purpose in life, it would be just a straight shot for them.

No, I think that's right. And I think what more and more companies though are learning is that the technology techniques which we're talking about and supporting employees who are suffering is a very, very cost-effective method that ultimately has a significant return on investment, not only in terms of productivity, employee retention, and decrease in healthcare costs, but it also has a profound impact on creativity. And, uh, allows people to really be their best selves.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think that all of us already are innovative and creative and accountable and naturally engaged. Like, once the drama's gone, once the— not only the stress of the environment is diminished, if we can, but if they realize, um, the way in which they perceive the world adds drama as well, it can really really open things up. And you, you too, you were a successful business owner yourself before, maybe during, I guess, as part of your research career. If I just recently read the Dalai Lama in interview with, on his 80th birthday with Archbishop Tutu. Sure. And there's a story about you in there which reminded me that you were, had a very successful business. You commercialized some medical, some Something medical. Is that remind me of the of your business experience?

So it's interesting. You mentioned the Book of Joy, which is this conversation between the Dalai Lama and Tutu, who have been good friends for a long time. I was actually blessed to be with Tutu on his 80th birthday party or 80th birthday, and have visited with him multiple times in Cape Town. And it was during. It was during that visit that the Dalai Lama was supposed to be with him and be the first Tutu Peace Lecturer at the university.

Well, that's right. And he wasn't able to travel.

Well, what happened was the African National Congress was influenced by the Chinese government and canceled his visa. So while ultimately he attended electronically and gave his lecture, you know, of course, I was appalled at this, as were many others. But at the time, I was also the chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation. And I suggested to Archbishop Tutu and actually his literary agent, who actually is also now my literary agent, that it would be wonderful to have the two of them in dialogue because they're both getting older. And this joy, which they share between them, might not be able to be experienced, and it'd be wonderful if the conversation between these 2 extraordinary human beings was able to be shared. And in fact, Doug Abrams, who is my agent, he was the one who ultimately did the interview between the 2.

Oh my gosh, I knew you were connected. I didn't realize you're the driving force of another of my favorite books. I just reread that book on the plane a couple days ago, and I have so many notes and dog Dog-eared corners and what that— listeners, not only do you need to read Into the Magic Shop, but you also need to read that book. It's fantastic.

Yeah. In fact, most people probably don't read the preface to the book, but in the preface, and I think the acknowledgments, they actually say I'm the one who was responsible for making that cover.

Dang, I skipped that part. I must admit, I didn't read the preface.

I'm thankful to have been in the position to do so because it is a wonderful, uh, book, actually.

That's phenomenal. You know, when I heard this story about— yeah, about your commercialization, I can, um, maybe ask the more direct question. So many of us, I think, come to work and we know that, um, it affects our mental health. And yet I think almost from that part of our mind of ego, we're willing to almost trade and, and suffer for the sake of money. I, I I started life as a therapist. I would have so many people that just thought, oh, if I had these external circumstances, money or title, then, then somehow I'd be happy. Of course, we know from so many places that's not what happiness is. But I've learned that in my life, that money doesn't drive my happiness, that happiness is my behaviors and the way in which I walk through the world. I can have kind of instant happiness. But you learned that lesson as well. And I think just did a really courageous thing when you'd committed some stock to charity. And when the company ultimately, after much success, didn't go that well, you kept that commitment. And I, I don't know, that touched me in a lot of ways.

Well, what had happened was that I ended up being a successful entrepreneur and was involved in a number of medically related healthcare startups during the dot-com period. And I was essentially living the life that many people believe they want. I was flying in private jets. I had a penthouse with its own private elevator. I had Ferraris, Porsches in the garage. I was single at the time. I was dating a number of very attractive women. And by every external measure, I was living the American dream. Yet I would come home feeling empty. And while I was never a mean person per se, I was striving towards what I thought success was and people's perception of success. And what happened is that when the dot-com period crashed, I essentially was bankrupt and had to sell everything. And in a period of reflection related to that, I realized that the driver was me wanting to overcome the shame I had and to show everyone I was a success. And ultimately, I changed my perspective and realized that the only thing that truly makes one happy is oneself. It's not any of these external things. And when I changed that perspective and started behaving in a manner based on the belief that my purpose in life was to be of service to others, everything changed. And that was ultimately the motivator to essentially give stock— the only asset I had, which was stock in a company I'd been the CEO of, a medical device company— I gave all of that stock to charity. And when that company went public, I ended up being an extraordinary philanthropist. It went public for $1.2 billion, and I was the largest individual shareholder, and I gave every penny to charity. And I ended up setting up health clinics all over the world, blood banks, programs for AIDS, HIV. I built a wing of a hospital in a third world country. And doing that then allowed me to connect with a deeper purpose. And this is ultimately how I connected with the Dalai Lama. And a variety of spiritual and religious leaders and how I came to start the center at Stanford, which focuses on the neuroscience of compassion and altruism.

So let's hear about that. It's a phenomenal story. And the conversations between Tutu and the Dalai Lama talked a lot about moving out of oneself and that kind of self-indulgent focus that can happen at times and into the service of others is the direct path to, you know, joy, satisfaction, happiness. And I know I found that in my life. I just— the work I do, I absolutely love, and I've been so blessed by so many. And, and so I love that you've ended up with this incredible mission. So yeah, tell us about the center and your work in connecting, you know, neuroscience and things like compassion and altruism. And, and what are you learning, and what type of work What kind of work do you do there?

Well, the center came about because I wanted to really understand what makes people kind and what prevents them from being kind. And we talked about that a little bit. When people are fearful or told a narrative of scarcity, oftentimes they shut down. This results in them not being open to new ideas. It results in them identifying people who are not in their in-group as out, and it creates a sense of tribalism. And what we know when people are able to be compassionate, they have a more optimistic, open worldview that is one of abundance. And when you shift between those two from this fear narrative to a love narrative, your physiology works its best. So at the center that I lead at Stanford, we study the neuroscience of compassion and the value proposition of those behaviors. And in fact, we recently, or I recently edited the Oxford Handbook of Compassion Science, which really lays out the value proposition in a variety of domains of what happens to your physiology when you're kind and compassionate, when you care for others, and how it affects every aspect. And so we do neuroscience. We also have created a compassion cultivation training program, which is taught all over the world now. And we have scientifically documented its impact on increasing one's compassion for self and others, and also its physiologic effect. We have a lecture series where we have prominent academics who study this area visit Stanford And give us the latest updates on their research. We also hold conferences and seminars, oftentimes in specific domains such as healthcare and business. And we also do consulting in those areas. And additionally, one of the things I do is I do something called Conversations on Compassion, which is just something fun. And what I do is I invite people who have dedicated their lives to living ones of compassion. And we just sit on the stage and talk for an hour to an hour and a half. I've had the Dalai Lama, Eckhart Tolle, Thich Nhat Hanh, Amma the Hugging Saint, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, a number of business executives, Anna Deavere Smith, the actress, and a whole, whole range of individuals.

Amazing. I'm hoping those are recorded for those of us that didn't know about that before.

Absolutely. They're all online. They're all free. And actually, many of them I have been told are quite profound, especially with the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Eckhart Tolle, and Amma. Those are very, very popular.

Oh, I bet. I bet. Have experienced a few of those folks in person, and I can only imagine with a focused interview how wonderful that would, that would be. You know, it's a nice reminder that we really are hardwired for compassion. Our system— we work best when we're being connected and compassionate and kind, and that our physiology favors that. So it's exciting, exciting work. So as a listener out there, there that if you had a few moments to just say, how does one cultivate their own compassion? I believe it's in all of us. It's just an opening. But how does one cultivate kindness or compassion? Or when we are in those moments where, you know, maybe we're focused on the wrong things or we've acted in ways that aren't our preference, like, do you have tips for that?

Sure. Well, the nature of life in modern society can be very stressful, as all of us know. What I do personally every morning is I sit up on the side of my bed and go through this breathing exercise and with intention relax. And then I think of joy and awe about being present in this world. And then actually I go through a routine which I developed actually as a result of giving a lecture to students who were about to begin medical school at my medical school during something called the White Coat Ceremony. And I wanted to leave these students with something that was easy to memorize and that would impact them hopefully to be their best selves. And it's 10 letters of the alphabet, C through L. And so what I do with intention every morning is I sit at the side of my bed with my eyes closed, slowly breathing in and out, trying to be as relaxed as possible. And then I start with the letter C and remind myself to be kind to myself, being self-compassionate. And actually, and the Dalai Lama actually talks about this, for many of us, the greatest love we get is from our mother. So to think about a mother's love and how our mother loved us regardless of what the bad things we thought about ourselves or that shadow self that we all have, that we are deserving of unconditional love. And then from that, I go to compassion for others. And I recognize in my thoughts that everyone is suffering. And oftentimes it's their suffering that results in their behaviors towards us. Right. Right. Not necessarily having anything to do with us. And then next I go on to the letter D for dignity, recognizing the dignity of every human being, that every human being deserves to be recognized and that we're neither above or below anyone. We're all equals striving to survive in an oftentimes challenging world. And every human being deserves to be recognized as a human being. Practicing equanimity, understanding that having an evenness of temperament, even though life has a tendency to have ups and downs, it's wonderful to want to always be up, if you will, and be acknowledged for your accomplishments, but that is transitory. And when you have an attachment or you cling to these things, Oftentimes that's a creator of unhappiness. And the reality is that the downtimes that we have, even though they're difficult and challenging and cause suffering, over time give us insights into ourselves and offer profound wisdom sometimes. So having an evenness of temperament where you're not clinging or wanting or having attachment to outcomes, while also understand that The downtimes are often our greatest learning experiences, and they're always transitory. F is for forgiveness. We spoke about Fred Luskin's work, and oftentimes people carry anger and frustration towards another because they feel they've wronged them. But the reality is all of us have wronged others, and when we are angry at another, it's like drinking poison and somehow trying to think that it's going to affect the other person. And the only person it negatively affects is us. And this is not to say you forget about a negative event that has occurred as a result of someone else, but you forgive them and you don't carry that anger and hostility. And that really has a profound, profound effect as we go through life. G is having gratitude. There's a whole variety of science that demonstrates having gratitude impacts us in a very positive way. There's a tendency for people to think about what they don't have. Versus frankly, if they're listening to this podcast, they're probably better off than 90% of people in the world. You have to remember 50% of the people in the world live on less than $2.50 a day. When you look at it in that context, we are very, very blessed, most of us. H is having humility, and probably as a neurosurgeon, that's the hardest. But yes, being humble, not believing that you are above or beneath anyone, that we're all equal. And in fact, this intersects with dignity. One is recognizing the worthiness of anyone, and the second is recognizing that you are no more worthy than anyone. And I is having a set of integrity and values. J is justice or sense of fairness or our responsibility for the who are most vulnerable. And there's a quote, I think, by Churchill that says, society is valued for how it treats its most vulnerable. And then K is for kindness, acting towards another in a good way, a nice way, without expecting any— Payback. return from that. And of course, all of this is contained by love. And so actually, I go through that every morning, and that sets my intention. And it's very important to have your intention set. And then throughout the day, I will pause, especially when I feel particularly stressed, and I'll just go off by myself for a few minutes and either pick one of those letters of the alphabet or go through the whole thing. And the very nature of just stopping, slowly breathing again, and going through my intention calms me down and sets the stage for me, hopefully, to be the best person I can be.

What wonderful advice. You know, a lot of us in healthcare learn mnemonics, and I love how you— it's something that I think a lot of us can just remember. And there, you know, virtues to cultivate by reflection, and I talk a lot about self-reflection, and then working to make those virtual virtues then visible I love that, to reflect and ponder and reset, and then to go out and, you know, through kindness and love, really make those, those visible. You know, when I had read your book, I had just come back from Egypt, and you connected in the book the— some of the Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians, believed that the heart was the one thing that survived you. And actually, you know, I think was put on a scale to see if it were lighter than feathers, meaning it was kind of your— at the end, I don't like Judgment Day, but it was certainly the recording of your life. And what I, what I love about what I learned from your book is the ability with that vagus nerve system to move and connect head and heart. Because I think, you know, whether I'm on the yoga mat, everywhere I go, people see me, I like lead with my head. Even as I walk, I have to think, okay, let me kind of get those back aligned because it's easy, I think, for us in business especially to lead with our intellect instead of using kind of all of our intelligence, which you certainly do good work in connecting. I appreciate that.

Well, and you know, the thing that none of us should forget is that as we're talking about, most of us are very blessed, but also the fact that each of us has every day the capacity the ability to make the life of at least one person better.

And I think it's— inevitably, whenever I do that, I make 2 people's lives better, because it's through that giving I may interact and touch somebody's life, or even just be present and hear them. Just to be able to say to somebody, I hear and see you, and I'll sit for a moment and hear your story. Um, makes their life better, hopefully, but it also makes mine better.

So that's exactly right. I think that so many people, uh, who are lonely actually just simply want to be heard.

Yeah, it's a craving that, um, I think a lot of people have. And, and it, you know, even if you're surrounded by people and success, as you found, you come— you can come home feeling, feeling empty. So unfortunately, you've been so gracious in giving us our time. That's fortunate. Unfortunately, Unfortunately, we're out of time. I want to keep my commitment to you. The website is ccare.stanford.com or stanford.edu?

It's ccare.stanford.edu.

Okay, .edu. ccare.stanford.edu. Please go out, listeners, and connect with the amazing work going on at Stanford. I've introduced you now to Dr. Doty and Dr. Lustig. And we really can evolve the workplace if we pay some wonderful attention to these missing links, things that we have known for many years that have been obvious to many of us but now are even validated through science, and for you in business, validated through ROI. So connecting with their work, please get Into the Magic Shop by Dr. James Doty. And I'll also plug the book he was the driving force for, The Book of Joy. And of course, Douglas Abrams was part of bringing all of those interviews together and wrapping them in some science and research themselves. And so that's your assignment. I always give an assignment for self-reflection. I want you to use the mnemonic that Dr. Dodi introduced you to and spend some time with that to get centered before you consciously step into your day. Dr. Dodi, thank you, thank you, thank you, not just for coming on the show, but for all the work you're doing. I am so grateful for that.

And thank you for your work, and thank you to the listeners for spending a little bit of time with us. Uh, have a great day.

Thank you. This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Cy Wakeman.