S4E18: Enough - Improving Your Life by Doing Less

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your workplace. I'm Sy Wakeman. Welcome everyone to another episode of the No Ego Podcast. I am so psyched today because we are going to talk about slacking off and, uh, emerging with a lot lower standards from 2020 and 2021. I have an incredible guest And she's played such a big part of my life. But I'm going to be joined by Dr. Ali Nowitzki, and she is an MD. She is certified in obesity medicine. She is an incredible coach, mostly to physicians, but she made a big exception for yours truly. I reached out to her a couple of years ago when my life during COVID had gotten incredibly messy. And she was just one of my main core coaches. And I just love her philosophy. So before she gets on, you all know I've been talking a lot about post-traumatic growth, that you can emerge from 2020 and 2021 evolved, not traumatized. Like, it is important that we not only try and survive this thing, but we let this thing evolve us, change us, transform us for the better. And one of the things that I've really adopted in my own transformation, allowing myself to come undone, and my team to come undone, is we've adopted the word enough. What is enough? Not what's possible, not what if we were operating at 100% full potential, like what we could accomplish if we wanted zero work-life balance, or if we wanted to like never have a moment to relax. But we've taken a whole nother thing, like let's be brave and really redesign like what is enough. And so many of you out there have such high standards and just take pretty violent approaches to living a good life. And I'm so excited to explore a whole different approach with Dr. Ali. Dr. Ali, thank you for joining me on the podcast. It's so good to see you.

Oh my goodness. I am beyond excited and just truly, oh my goodness. Thank you for having me. This is going to be amazing.

You are amazing. And I love that our philosophies align so much. It's so counterintuitive. Like, even as you, um, even though you're certified in obesity medicine, which is a huge certification, you are just not about diets and weight loss, and you are all about, um, health. There's so many things, um, to talk about, but I want to start with like lowering your standards. I heard Elizabeth Gilbert talk during COVID And we were on the same Zoom, which was such a trip, Zoom call. And she said, if you want to be a badass, if you want to be revolutionary, just learn to relax and just like take a nap and just like tell people you don't care. Like you just don't care anymore. Like you're just not, you're not going for the gold. You're going for the like, I showed up and got the t-shirt and met with a few friends over coffee award. And That is the trek you have been on the last couple of years. Tell me more.

Oh my gosh. Well, this is so awesome. And I could talk forever. But I think what you just made me think of is when the pandemic first hit. So it was, you know, gosh, you know, almost 2 years ago. And one of the things that I had always provided in my business was written workouts, you know, like exercise is a really big thing for health. I don't use it for weight loss. I use it for health. But one of the things that was happening is all the gyms were closing. And so I said, you know what, we're going to start live workouts in the program because that's what people were asking for. So what you're talking about in terms of, you know, doesn't have to be perfect. Okay. My gym doesn't look like the Beachbody gym, right? Like, I'm like, well, here's my gym and here's my things, but what the heck? We're going to put me on a Zoom. I'm going to go ahead and lead some, some workouts here. So I put out this schedule. It was a ridiculous schedule. What kind of speaks to like these high expectations we set for ourselves, which by the way, I never held held them up and wound up totally rebooting everything. But we would meet like 4 times a week, and I'd lead these live strength training classes. And so the really cool thing that happened was that people got hooked, and they loved it. And I realized that kind of, okay, my gym isn't perfect. I've never led a live workout class before, but I'm just gonna go for it. And people loved it. So right there, it kind of showed me that, you know what, if you just dig into what you naturally can do, it's probably going to be better than the stuff you try really hard at.

Yeah, it's like progress, not perfection, which is, you know, comes out of the AA program, I think. It's like, I think what COVID's done for us is normalized. Like, we've gotten to look into people's lives and watch their cat, like, attack the pillow behind their head on Zoom. And we compare our insides, how we feel, to other people's outsides, like their Instagram image. And we always come up short. And I think what's been so awesome is just like, what if we just strive for good enough? Because if we have to be perfect, we're just not going to show anybody who we really are. We're not going to have any intimacy. Yeah. We're not going to invite them into our life. But it's like, here's how I work out. And I mean, I think it was just so insightful for people to enter into each other's real lives.

I totally agree with that. And it's so interesting because what I found is that people grew a lot in my groups. People grew because they couldn't really hide the crap. They couldn't hide it anymore because they're like, listen, As you can see, we're having this disaster happen behind me. And this is my real life and I'm not going to pretend it's perfect anymore.

And I love that. I love, I'm like, let the thing fall apart. People are like, things are falling apart. I'm like, thank God. Part of growing is we focus so much, especially physicians and healthcare, on mastery. I'm like, let's just focus on the undoing, on the mystery of this thing. Like, let's focus on, I have no idea how to feed all these kids and homeschool them. Let's just embrace that for a minute.

I'm not even kidding you. So we did homeschool. We have 2 kids. We homeschooled them both. And literally I felt that I was successful for a whole year if my kindergartner could somewhat read by the end of the year. I didn't care what happened on the day-to-day. I'm like, if she can read in 12, in what, 9 months, if she can read in 9 months, then that's, I'm going to call that a win. And we're going to just be really, really thankful that that was such a successful school year.

What a lovely lowering the standard because other people are like, oh my God, I can't get the sheets printed out that my Kindergartner needs to color and the teacher's gonna find out that I only did 3 of the 4 sheets. And like, so much of our stress comes from our stories. And one of the biggest stories is that we have to be perfect or our conditioning. If a teacher assigned it, we have to do it instead of just being involved in our own lives. What can I do peacefully today? That was my biggest insight. Was how my approaches in the past to success were actually violent to myself. Oh, I'm behind on the project. Let me get up at 4 in the morning and I will just crank it out until 8 and then no one will even know. And I will like travel all over and I'll fly 5 different. And I'm like, when I got stranded in Mexico, I got a mantra. I'm like, I'm only going to schedule today that which I can do peacefully.

Yeah, I love that.

And like, it was crazy to play with that. But you know, how great to just lower your standards and do less. I love— you have to talk about when you get to your 10%. I love that you give us permission to like just do 10% today, like with a crappy low standard that leads to a ton of happiness. Because we defer happiness, like we're like, I'll be happy tomorrow. Today I have to get my project done. I'll be happy tomorrow. Today I have to get a great workout in.

It's so true. In fact, it's funny. I'm like, I should pull that protocol up. But it's pretty amazing. So if you figure it this way, right, so, you know, You need 10 parts to make 100. So what I say to my people is go ahead and list 10 things that are important in your life. Right. And so this is what, what my group will technically say. So they'll say exercise, nutrition, my job, my family, my friends, my hobbies. Like they'll just give me 10, 10 things that are important to them. Right. And so I say, okay, so here's the deal. So to have really good health, oh, the other things are like sleep. And so they do the thought downloading, which is, you know, their form of journaling and stress reduction, all those types of things. And they'll pick 10 things. And what I say is, okay, so if you try to do 10% of all 10 things, you're going to be running at 100% capacity. Don't do that. Okay, you're doing well if you're running at, I don't know, 50, 40, 40%, 50% capacity. So what you're going to do is you're going to pick 5 things that you're going to say, okay, this will be my focus this week. And you're going to try to hit 10%, not 100%, 10%. So let's say that exercise is one of them. And you think in your mind, full capacity for exercise is working out 6 days a week, doing 45-minute lifting sessions followed by 20 minutes of cardio. Let's just pretend that's your 100%. 10%, you walk for 5 minutes every day. Okay, so so you commit to that 10%, and there's no guilt there. You are telling yourself that you're doing a damn good job. Okay, so you commit to your 10% for your exercise, your 10% for nutrition. It might be like, okay, I drank enough water today. That's my 10%, right? So you're giving yourself these goals that in a different lifetime you would consider dropping the ball and you're failing. But no, this is the new success path. 10% is the new success path because I believe that we need just tiny little habits. to make really big, significant changes. Because I think especially once you hit 35 and beyond, consistency is going to be all day long where you're going to create shift and change. So you have to love what you're doing. And if you're like all pumped up because you did 10% of one thing that's important to you today, you're going to start believing that you're becoming very successful. And that motivates high-achieving people.

It's so funny because When you do just 10% and give yourself permission, talk about self-compassion. Like, no, 10% is good enough. You will be introduced to your ego, the most violent master ever. It will be a parent's voice going, oh my gosh, you're going to fail. You'll never get anywhere with 10%. You have to give 110%. Like,

yeah.

So what happens when you just get very rebellious? And for so many of us over-functioning rule followers, like rebellion. Rebellion is totally just going, I am taking a nap today. I am not going to care today. I'm going to do 10% workout today. You will find how much conditioning you have that, you know, Glennon Doyle talks about in Untamed. You will find the conditioning because you will hear it in all the fear that comes up. And then you get to decide whether that is your voice or— somebody else's voice. Is that really how you, you want to, um, live? You know, I discovered something similar, but I like yours so much better. Instead of putting down a routine, like I used to write a schedule, like 6 AM I'll get up and walk 3 miles, then 7 AM, and then I would have like, I will drink 8 glasses of water and have little boxes where I'd like check off each like water thing I drank. And I would do that for a while and then fail. So the, the binge-purge guilt cycle of how many times I reaffirmed for myself that I suck. Mm-hmm. was horrible. And I thought I just needed more commitment. What I needed was like not to make a checklist. So I just started with the word more, not, um, to violate enough. But instead of I'll drink 8 glasses of water today, like, I'm gonna not commit, I'm not gonna have a routine, I'm gonna have a dedication that hopefully will become a habit where I'm just gonna drink a little more water today than I traditionally have done in the past. It was such an easy goal. Like, I'm gonna, you know, walk more this month than I've done in the past. And I don't have to, like, do it in 10-mile increments. I'm gonna be in nature more. And what happened for me, it was kind of a hidden 10%. But it was just like, do what you can and be OK with it.

Totally. And it's so foreign. And the really interesting thing, as you're saying all this, I like to use weight loss examples, because I think they're so tangible. And they can be applied to so many different things. But, you know, this is a typical scenario I'll get, I'll have somebody who is completely fine and normal and healthy. And they have this vanity 10 pounds, and they want to lose 10 pounds. So I'm like, okay, fine. So they go ahead, I'm like, you got to give me a timeframe, though, because we're not going through this for the whole year with you trying to lose this 10 pounds, because, like, we're just not doing it because you don't need to suffer all year

long,

right? Like, so, so let's go ahead. I'm with you on this. But let's go ahead. Let's Let's set a plan up. And so they'll have their really strict, strict plan. And I'm like, all right, this will last 6 weeks. And then they're going to be really upset because all of a sudden it went from all to none, right? Like they were all in and now they're not in at all. And so they're going to go ahead and they're going to rebound up even more based on all the physiology that happens when we lose weight in the first place.

And that's the ego, the polarity, the all or nothing, either or. It's like happiness is transcending polarity to say a lot of things can be true.

Totally. So here's the big take-home that just happened. I was just talking with somebody about this. So this is what I said. I said, okay, what is your compelling, amazing, strong reason why you want to lose the 10 pounds? And she could not give me one. I said, that is why you will not lose 10 pounds.

Because my BMI says I should, or— yeah. Isn't that funny? And what if your body— I mean, we, so many times we see ourselves as self-help projects. Like with my new book coming out, Life's Messy, Live Happy. And since it's up for pre-order right now, I'm getting a lot of media requests, and they're thinking about New Year's resolutions and why they, you know, um, you know, a lot of people are just saying screw New Year's resolutions. And my, my common answer for that is like, we're not self-help projects. Like, we are— what if we all just started with I'm okay? And, you know, maybe could improve in a couple of areas? Like, what if we just started there instead of, I need a total makeover? Like, makeover is so big in our culture. And it's like, what if you don't? What if you just need to enjoy right now in this moment?

1,000%. And the interesting thing is one of my programs is actually called Transform. But the interesting thing is that it's not meant to change you. It's meant to highlight like all the greatness you already have. It's just that you're not paying attention to it.

And it reveals, like, I talk to people like, your people aren't broken. You don't have to like make them accountable. Once the drama's gone, that's their natural state. Once they're toggled up, all you're doing is revealing what they already are and what they're capable of. And I think that's the new leadership competency, is the ability to transform through the reveal, not through the makeover.

I love that. That's so good because you know what? That supports imperfection, right? Because it supports like, drop the damn ball. Let's see, let's see how you recover. Drop it and then let's see what happens. That's what I want to know. I don't care if you drop it. Drop it like all day long. But like, what do you do when you drop it?

Yeah. And how interesting it is when you ask yourself, of all the ways you can spend your, you know, life today, this is your biggest goal is 10 pounds. And for You know, for— well, and so much of what you teach, even though your certification's in obesity medicine, which gives you so much credibility, so much of what you teach is not about at all weight loss. It's like, I know that I worked with you and the goal was not weight loss, but the goal was to, um, improve health and to make good decisions. And I found out for myself, like, I just committed to not drinking because I was going through a divorce. I wanted my eyes wide open. I wanted to make the best decision possible, and I wanted to see things for how they really were. And so much of my work with you, even on the physical place, was not about set a goal and trying to achieve it. It was like, get in touch with what it really feels like to be hungry, what it really feels like to build strength, to not work out, but to just notice that you feel better, like running up the stairs. It was such a different kind approach.

Yeah, I love it. Because I don't use BMI at all. Like, that is not even something that comes into my world, because everybody comes with a predisposition that they need to be in a normal BMI range. But I can tell you right now, if you have a large frame, and you are an endomorph, you are going to struggle for your entire life to fit into a normal BMI range. You It's just I'm telling you right now that's what's going to happen. I'm a mesomorph, and I have probably medium bone structure. I'm barely hitting the BMI range, and that's like right. So imagine if you have a denser bone structure, a larger bone structure, you have a lot of muscle, you have a little bit of additional body fat. Yeah, it's going to be quite difficult. So people come with all these expectations that well, this is what you know so and so weighs, and so I should weigh this as well. And so my focus. really started shifting more towards the self-compassion. So I use 5 simple things. And essentially, it's eat when you're hungry, get hungry first. I'm not telling you what to eat and what not to eat. We all know what to eat, what not to eat, like we all do, really. So get hungry first, observe for fullness. So you're just basically knowing your hunger cues. That's the first part of intuitive eating, allowing your feelings, what you just said, so that you can have the clarity, right? So again, we're not buffering or distracting or resisting our emotions, we're actually allowing them. And then loving movement, not exercising to whittle our bodies away or exercising to change our bodies. We're exercising because we love to move. A lot of endorphins happen for some people. BDNF is a big study now in psychiatry. So, some of us really need exercise to really help improve that BDNF. And then, the final piece is stop perfectionism. Those are my 5 keys to achieving optimal health. And, I'm telling you, they are effective. And, it's just like you said— I love it. Self-compassion piece.

People tell me every day, they're like, Sai, you look so amazing. They focus on my look, and I've only— I'm down like 20 pounds. Like, that has not— people are like, but you look so much like thinner, better. And thank you, thank you, thank you. Although, like, even commenting on that, like, how about you look so much happier?

Mm-hmm.

And it's, it's not that I've achieved weight loss. I am out in nature so much. I am making Good life choices that really support my feelings, and those feelings are my information. How do you know how to live? Goethe said, once you can trust yourself, you'll know how to live. But I love that you use some traditional things in non-traditional ways. Like you just said, you know, oh, just trust your natural, like, Movement instinct and trust your natural hunger, and yet you tell people to fast.

Yeah.

About like—

Yeah, so I use fasting and I use it kind of in a non-traditional— I love how you said that. Yeah, exactly. I use it in a non-traditional way because the studies show that fasting is not a magic bullet. It's not going to make you drop magical pounds because you're fasting. It has everything to do always with a deficit. But obviously there's some things that, you know, we think, okay, can it help people who have, you know, insulin resistance Maybe, but there's a lot of mixed studies. But the way that I use it, and I think it's really effective, so if you fast, you will be in touch with what your true hunger actually feels like.

Yeah, and most people have not felt true hunger. That's what I loved about the fasting assignment. Not to do it all the time, but just remind yourself, this is what hungry feels like. It's not sadness, that's not hungry. It's not mad, that's not hungry. It's like, only feed hunger. And that was so simple to me. I'm like, oh my God.

Yeah. And when you take away the rules, right, you're like, I'm not telling you what to eat. I mean, obviously, I have my own nutrition program. But it's, it's not that. I'm like, I don't care what you eat. I care if you're eating when you're hungry, and you're not eating, you know, you stop when you're, when you're full, or not even full. But I would say, you know, you feel good, satisfied, right? And so eating kind of foods that satisfy you. That's what you want to be able to do. And then the other piece of that, which is super interesting, is that when you take away the food rules, all the, all the people that say, oh, I'm a— I have a history of binge eating, or I'm a binge eater, or— it goes away. It's humans. When you give humans restrictions, like, what do we want to do? We want to rebel. And so the whole idea is how can we work with our physiology, our biology, the way our brains are set up To be able to go ahead and actually make changes by doing something different. Because we're gonna get the same results if we keep doing the same things. And obviously, I mean, I'm 41. If I keep doing what I did 20 years ago, I'm gonna be exactly the same. But if I'm slowly making changes, then I'm gonna see big results even as I'm approaching 50, 60, 70.

It's so important because all of this is— the ego has us externally identified, and it's all about what people think and all about how I can, you know, change my reality or my circumstances or whether I'm the victim or the villain. And everything you teach, even a diet, is externally identified. Let me externally count calories, or let me make these harsh commitments. What you teach is to get embodied. And Eckhart Tolle, all the great masters talk about using breath to get into your body. That's where all the information is, to quit numbing it, to eat when you're hungry and stop when you're satisfied, not uncomfortable and to eat food that fuels you, not numbs you. Um, like, but all of this implies that you got to go inside. And I talk about that a lot in Life's Messy, Live Happy, that we want to figure out how to clean up the mess of our lives. And I'm here to tell you that, at least my experiences, life is always pretty messy. Like, reality is never just going to match your preferences. Mm-hmm. But what you can do instead is go internally and evolve, learn to feel your feelings and forge wisdom and learn to listen to what's true, learn to ask better questions, not what should I do or what would a good girl do, but what, you know, what am I willing for people to be wrong about me to live the life I want? Like, I even teach in the book, like, asking better questions, but it's all internal. And once you evolve yourself internally, then you can walk through the messy world so much more skillfully and peacefully. Um, and here's how I know when I'm off track and I'm trying to like muscle my way through is one, I'm a breath holder. I talk about that in the book. I'm a breath holder.

Yeah.

I used to be on a dive team and I would hold my breath from the approach all the way down and all the way up. I used to be gasping for air and people are like, you hold your breath. And for me, that's the warrior. Like you breathe in and you're the warrior, but I never breathe out where I'm the healer. Like, that's the learning to relax reflex. Like, you need full breath in and out. But here's how I know is when I see somebody relaxing and I'm mad at them. Have you guys ever done this? Like, I'm doing dishes and I'm like sewing curtains and I'm painting and I'm cleaning and I'm writing and I'm like, you know, emailing clients all at the same time. And I look over and somebody I love is like watching a movie. I'm like, what the heck? What? What the heck? I'm mad at people for relaxing. I think I should get them to do something. And what I need to do is go, sigh, if you want to relax, relax.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I am right there with you. In fact, it's so funny because Mark and I, my husband Mark, we're mismatched in that category. And so one of the things that I talk about sometimes is max capacity, right? And so it's like, I have a max capacity and Mark has a max capacity, right? And he has his max capacity, which is, I don't know, I guess I'm being, I could have a thought about it, but let's just say his is a little bit lower than mine and I tend to be a little bit higher functioning, whatever. But he has room in there for relaxation and I have zero room in there. And so what happens is, you know, I'm at my max capacity, so I'm overwhelmed and stressed out and I'm looking at him and I'm like, just as you said, Cy, right? Like, what the heck? Are you kidding me? Are you playing Nintendo? Is that for real right now?

Let me introduce you to the 2 children we have.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But meanwhile, right, he is like totally overwhelmed in his own max capacity. But he, you know, had the insight to say, okay, I'm gonna relax. And so then it's like taking ownership, like you said, you know, like, you know, saying, hey, ego, take a little break, right? Take a little break and let me go ahead and figure out how I am going to learn or relearn how to relax.

Well, it's so funny because most of us really don't know how to relax. And our solution is I'm miserable over a functioning, you should be too, instead of us saying, what can I do to relax? But one of the biggest questions I have helped people with coaching during the pandemic, when we first all got locked down, and everybody now is fearing lockdown again, they're like, oh my God, what if we get locked down? Some of us that have a good relationship with solitude and uncertainty and doing less and enough, I wouldn't hate another lockdown, honestly. I would be like, oh my gosh, let's do another like 4 months. We should have a lockdown every year for like 3 months, right? And I know it hit different people differently. I know that I have a lot of privileges, but what I ask people is, what did this pandemic reveal to you? What was your busyness covering up?

Yes,

because a lot of times our following all the rules and being very productive. And it is external activity covering up something that our soul is trying to tell us, like, I don't want this, or I don't like this, or I would rather be doing something else for a living. Like, we use busyness and all kinds of things to keep from hearing our inner voice. And a lot of women especially tell me, like, my inner voice is so quiet. I'm like, no, it's not. It is so muffled. It is not quiet. If you stop drinking and stop over-functioning and stop trying to save the world and just stop, just go sit in stillness for a while on a regular basis, you will realize that your inner voice is loud and proud, but you've been muffling it. And that was my biggest surprise. For me, as I thought, what if I've lost my intuition? What if I've lost my inner voice? What if, like, But people ask me like what I think or how I feel, and I got to the point where I'm like, I don't even know. What do you want? I don't know. Where do you want to go to dinner? I have no idea. Like, I couldn't even tell you what I wanted to eat.

And

I'm thinking, oh, I've lost touch with myself. No, I had muffled, I had muzzled myself trying to fit into everybody's pieces. I thought if I comply, then we'll be compatible. Like, I confused compliance with compatibility. Like, I want to be liked by you, so I'll comply. Mm-hmm. And that was fake compatibility. It just, it wasn't a good, a good thing.

No, I love everything you're saying. And you want— what's interesting, actually, and we were privileged because we do our business from home. I mean, we both do online work. I mean, I see all my clients online, Mark sees all his patients online. And so for us, I don't know that we're living that differently, because we're still not taking the kids to eat inside at restaurants, right? Because they're not even fully vaccinated yet. And to be honest, it was a total shift. And the really cool thing, I'm actually purposely going on a little retreat by myself because the thing that scares me the most right now is being by myself. And so I'm like, I need to explore that more. So what you just said.

Yeah, because when you're by yourself, things get honest, things get real. As I was writing my book, I noticed the pattern that whenever, like, and you, I think, said this, like every 10 years, there's this weird falling apart in my life and I always retreat. Um, to water. And it's usually like here in Mexico, like for years my body has been telling me like, instead of taking a retreat from your life, why don't you design a life you don't need to retreat from? I'm like, bam, big.

Mm-hmm.

And our friend, um, Sasha Shilkut, um, Dr. Shilkut says a retreat is, um, a retreat from the enemy. And yeah, the outside world. But I also found that on retreat, I meet the enemy. Yes. I meet, like, you know, I don't like to call her the enemy, but I meet the person I've been muzzling, you know, the person with all the good info. Um, it's like that person is who I meet on retreat. And it's so, it's so funny because you talked about 10% and then suddenly they become habits. And my habits are so much, um, on a daily basis. The habits I have fuel happiness. You know, people are like, how do you be happy? And a lot of people defer happiness. I'll be happy when I get this figured out. I'll be happy when we get through the holidays. I'll be happy. And it's like, what are you feeding today? Are you feeding, you know, ego and unhappiness or happiness? Like, what are you doing? Um, for the— a lot of my practices involve reflective journaling, which you assign, and meditation and tuning in. Mm-hmm. To the quiet. And that's how I know more quickly I'm off track.

Yes. Oh,

before I find myself in a mess that's so overwhelming, I'm like, I can never clean this up. I just have to suffer through.

Yes. So I will tell you, and I mean, I'm completely open about this, but I have, I have the ability to get quite anxious. I mean, it— so my Enneagram is 6, if you've ever done the Enneagram, and essentially, right, like, so I am the person who can solve pretty much like all the problems, but it means that I've been working for 12 hours on every worst-case scenario that can happen. And that's me, like, I have to be honest. And what I'll tell you is I can indulge in anxiety, especially if something goes a little bit off-kilter. And I'm starting to research all the articles on like worst-case scenario for this, worst-case scenario for that, and then I know there's something wrong. And so then what I say is I catch myself and I say, okay, are you choosing to feed anxiety today, like you said, or are you going to choose something else? What do you want to choose today? And so bringing it back What can I control right now? Right? So a little CBT on myself. So what can I control right now? Where's the evidence? And then what do I want to create? What's the feeling? So I love the idea of happiness. And I think one of my words this year, I know you and I were talking about our words, is fun. And it's because, you know, I feel like if you can actually relax enough and to be able to be vulnerable enough even to have fun, right? That's a pretty awesome thing. That's a It's a pretty awesome space to be in.

I love it. I love it. You're talking to a lot of people about learning to relax. First of all, you mentioned the Enneagram. If, um, my listeners aren't into the Enneagram, it's, it's one of the best. It's not even a person— maybe it's personality, but it's bigger than that. It's like kind of the flavor of your soul. I'm a 9. Everybody thinks I'm a 3 because I'm a performer. Everybody thinks I'm a 3 and they're always shocked because 3s like success and they like reward and they like being in the limelight and they like achievement and immaterial things make them happy. So everybody assumes I'm a 3 and I'm totally not motivated by money or material things. And I'm a 9 and the 9 on the Enneagram is all about peace, unity. And when somebody said a 9 tends to be the sloth, like they don't have a lot of energy, I'm like, I resent that. I get so much done in the day. But what the 9s that I've had to learn don't have energy for is emotional Like nonsense and conflict and being picked on and, you know, logic, like explain yourself, like that whole thing. 9s are like, they get frustrated very easily because they're like, it's not even an important discussion. I don't have energy for it.

Yeah.

Learning to have fun. I love that, especially for a 6, but I think for all of us, how do you teach people to learn to relax and have fun? Do you have a method?

I do have a method. I'm going to tell you, but you know, it's funny. My wing is 7 and 7 people, 7 are fun. So I think that that's why I have this unique mix, but it's like, you know, like I'm anxious, but I also can have fun. I have an awesome method for learning how to relax, and it's actually really easy, and I can probably explain it in a minute. So essentially, this is what I— it's an exercise. So this is what I have you doing. Any of your listeners can actually go ahead and grab a piece of paper right now and do it. But what you do is on a weekly basis, you go ahead and you write your to-do list like it's nobody's business. So you're gonna think about this. You're gonna think, okay, in this week ahead, what is Everything I have to do. Have to do is the key phrase here. Okay, that's step one. This is on a weekly basis, so you're doing this once a week. So also in this weekly exercise, you're going to go down that list and you're going to either write trash next to it, meaning it's a bunch of crap that doesn't ever need to get done and we're not even going to ever put it on our to-do list, at least for this week. Delegate. So it needs to be done, but are you the only person that can do it? Like, truly, are you the only person? Now, I know all the perfectionists and high achievers, and, you know, we like to have a little control. So now we have to be okay with the fact that it might not get done exactly how we want it, but can you delegate it? Then the third thing is do, your do list. These are the things that only you can do. Only you can do. Nobody else can do them. It's just you. Okay. Next step, on a daily basis, this will take you 2 minutes. And I'm telling you, this is the way that I help my clients decrease overwhelm and it works. You're going to make a 3-2-1 list. You're going to list 3 things from your do list. And that's why it's important to do the weekly thing first, because you don't want to start putting things that you can delegate or trash on your do list. We don't want to— we don't want them. We're trying to simplify. So 3 things every day that you have to do. Okay, this can be something as simple as pay the propane bill, call the school to find out when the holiday concert is. Like, I don't know, 3 things that you have to do. 2 things that you want to do. Okay, this is where we start having fun. So what do you want to do? Okay, maybe you want to, you know, crochet a blanket. Maybe you want to have drinks with friends. Maybe you want to have an hour walking in nature. Whatever that is, okay? Two things that you want to do on a daily basis, and then here's the thing that's usually the hardest for people: one thing that you're willing to leave on the to-do list. Meaning, we did not operate at 100% today; we operated at 10%. We did not try to complete every single thing today. Even if you have the urge, right? Urge to want to do more and to complete that one thing that you're putting on the to-do list. No, you have to sit with the discomfort. of having something to do because honestly, there's never a to-do list that's finished. So we have to get comfortable sitting with—

Yeah.

More, like there could be something more. But this is a way to streamline and actually be very intentional about your plan for the day. But notice it's not very high standard.

I love it. I love it. And for those of you that like to cross things off, you get to cross stuff off. But what I love about it is It's part of being an adult. So when I first became a leader, life seemed pretty manageable. I could get most of the stuff done 100 years ago on my to-do list. And then I started to not be able to get things done. And what happened for me is I was a victim. I would let time or other people decide what didn't get done. So I would just be like, my boss would be like, why didn't this get done? I'm like, I ran out of time. I'm victim. Yeah. I had to get to the point where I wasn't a victim. And I had to decide, not time, not interruptions, not fear. I knew every day when I went home, something would be undone. And I had to wrestle with owning it and being loud and proud with it. And when people, my boss was like, why didn't that get done? I'm like, because I chose not to. I chose to allocate my time to something different. And I'm not gonna go with this ridiculous assumption that everything can get done. But what our ego wants us to do is not have any consequences. And there are consequences for what we choose not to do. So choose wisely.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, choose like what you don't like, or choose what's trash and should never have made the list in the first place, or choose what you're okay with. But really, for me, I would pay attention to the to list. Like, some days there's not one thing on my list that I wanted to do. What does that tell me about out my codependency or my living for others. Like, where am I on the list? I'm gonna do this because I, I've learned the willing to leave stuff on. I've gotten pretty good at the 10% stuff. Like, I don't care what they can do. Fire me, please, please fire me. Um, what's not on my list is stuff I want to do. That's what gets put off for me. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. And, and the other thing too, what I want to just finish up and say is with that 3-2-1 list, so after you go through that, you have full permission to relax now because you did everything you had to do in one week.

Oh, that's the most important part.

Yeah,

I love it. So you don't have to do the whole week's to-do because that's the never-ending part. We don't get to relax. If, if all I do is this, then I get to chill.

You get to chill. You get a full free pass if all you do is commit to 2 minutes a day just at least making this list. You then have full permission to just relax. So you're gonna— I think what you said is that there's gonna be some discomfort that comes up. And so the idea— restlessness, I'll tell you, is one of those emotions where we want to numb it like crazy because it's this nagging, like it's telling us, get up and move your body. Restlessness is very fast. So it's like, get up, move, do something, do more. And so we have to learn to sit with that urge, and that's how we will relearn to relax.

I love it. And the urge Whether it's an urge to smoke or anything, only lasts a few minutes. Like, if you can just, you know, breathe through it. It's so interesting. I think that's also, for me, I've learned important to have rituals, not commitments or routines, but rituals that signal to me like, I'm choosing this. And for me, it— I didn't even realize I was doing it until someone else pointed out to me. They're like, I always know when you're just done for the day. And I'm like, you do? They're like, you light a candle. And whether it's back when I traveled, I would come off the road and kick my shoes off, put my jammies on, I would light a candle. People start giving me candles for holidays and stuff. And now usually I, um, go for a walk on the beach. It's kind of my last thing as the sun is setting. I come home, I light a candle, work is over, it's done.

I love that. That is a really, really awesome strategy that I'm going to start implementing. I do not do that.

It used to be pour a glass of wine, but I don't do that anymore. I light a candle.

I love that.

Because the pour the glass of wine was a signal to my body like, we're gonna numb out and not listen to ourselves right now because you really did so many things for other people and you're not hearing the message. The lighting the candle is like, I'm ready to relax and just experience What, what is— I have good information about my day and I can chillax. And I never was a TV watcher, but now it's like I've gotten into some super crazy fun series after I light that candle. Yeah, I never gave myself permission to do that. So I love that.

I know. And I also feel like if I can get into a TV series, that's a huge win for me because I know that I'm actually allowing myself to not be be productive. Like, that's okay.

And I realized, like, I, I regret, um, people in my past were like, come to a movie and, you know, just lay down with me and watch like TV. And it had something to do with my self-worth. Like, only like losers do that. Like, I so undervalued, um, relaxation. And but for me, reading was always relaxation. And now It's kind of like after being on a screen all day, reading is a little difficult for me. So I'm like, I can watch TV.

Yeah,

plus there's better stuff on TV. Okay, we have— oh my gosh, I want to make sure and pick your brain. We've talked about lowering your standards, learn to relax. Perfectionism. I know you talk a lot about perfectionism.

Yes.

We've cured that a little bit with your 10% protocol. What are you— what else are you coaching out there? You have so many good things to talk to people about.

I mean, it's been really, really amazing. I'll tell you, I think obviously, you know, the pandemic brought out a lot. You know, my focus has always been whole health. And I mean, that's mind, that's emotional, that's physical health. It's all those things. I think a lot of what I've really gotten into, what's really come up a lot I would say is in general relationships with other people, and I don't just mean romantic relationships, but just a lot of struggling with boundaries, a lot of struggling with again expectations. Just you know a lot of well I'll be honest I've had a lot of clients who they're trying to date during this pandemic and it's been nearly impossible for them.

Yeah.

So like I'll say relationships like that's I've been doing a lot of relationship coaching and I don't like I said that doesn't mean. a romantic relationship in general. It's like relationship with family, relationship with kids, relationship with friends, relationship with whoever. I think that what's happened is people have had to set different boundaries. And you can set the boundary, right? But then I think that the next piece, which can be a little more difficult, is holding the boundary.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there are 3 types of people. There are people who just understand the boundary. And once they learn it, they're like, oh, and then there are people who will challenge the boundary. And you're like, no, I really mean it. Then there are some folks who are like boundary destroyers. And if you consistently have to advocate for yourself every single day, you might be with someone that, that, you know, isn't good at that. But we used to let work set our boundaries. I'm like, oh, I'd love to talk about this, but gotta go to work. And now it's like you're in the home, like you're, there's nowhere to go.

Right, absolutely. And so I think it's interesting. I think people are learning How to navigate their relationships. And I'll tell you, I think that, I mean, my husband last night, he's a child and adolescent psychiatrist, which I know you know, but just for your listeners, and he did a lecture on anxiety in kids. And one of the things that came up is just that with the pandemic, I mean, obviously the incidence is— Yeah. He's been really busy. Let's just put it that way. And so the next part is with that, you know, there's been a lot of people I've been speaking with where, you know, one of the partners is super anxious, and it's really impacted their relationship. And so again, like, there's all these different, you know, outside stressors coming in. So how do you know navigating all that, and then in the midst of that, which is what I see is I'll have my clients who are really working on themselves, right? And they're really trying to make all these improvements, same kind of things that you're talking about, Cy, with just, you know, their health and just their mindset and all those things. And then And then they might have a person in their life, which like you said, is probably person number 3 that just keeps pushing that boundary and pushing that boundary and pushing that boundary, or not hearing the boundary. And it's so— it's like that takes over a lot of their existence.

Yeah. And what's interesting to me about boundaries is a lot of people think because we're so externally identified from the ego, the ego sets boundaries to control the other person. Like, here's what you can and can't do. And that's not what boundaries are. Boundaries are like giving you the instruction manual on how to live well with me. And it's not me controlling you. It's like, this is the place that I can love you and me at the same time. And it's good information. So when people are trying to set boundaries with you, they're trying to tell you how they want to be in relationship with you, not get out of relationship. But a lot of people don't realize boundaries aren't just your non-negotiables. They're your preferences and your desires. They're your limits. Mm-hmm. Like when you can and can't entertain a conversation. And Terri Cole has a great book on being the boundary boss. She was on the No Ego podcast. Go back to that. But I think boundaries are super important right now because to set real boundaries, you got to quit focusing on another person and focus on what you desire and what are your limits and be honest about that up to and including In my life, I tried to set some boundaries and the person was like, I'm not having it. And, you know, they chose a different relationship. And it's like, you have to decide with your boundaries when you represent you, if you're willing to do that and let the universe remove away what isn't meant for you. Mm-hmm. And so boundaries takes internal knowledge, courage, but it takes faith that What you need will be there for you. It may not be what you're involved in.

Yes, I love it. It's like, again, going back to that inner voice and just like trusting your gut, trusting it, going with it. You made me think of something though, because I know we started off talking about, um, the whole idea about dropping the ball and not having such high standards. So I actually am running this challenge right now, and it's in one of my groups. But the funny thing, it's a holiday challenge, and this is the whole point. So the idea is that it's going to happen over— well, it happened over Thanksgiving and then all the December holidays. And the idea is for them not to do well. Like, do you see what I'm saying? It's to have all these— like, so in other words, they're supposed to learn that they can have major self-compassion. And so the rules are this, there's 5. So, and actually, anybody listening can follow along if you want to do this. It's pretty easy. So the first thing is eat when you're hungry. Just eat when you're hungry. I'm not telling you what to eat, eat whatever the heck you want, but just eat when you're hungry. The second thing is that you're going to move your body 10 minutes a day. That's it. 10 minutes. That's it. It can be doing laundry. It can be anything. If you consider it body movement, that's it. That's great. The next piece is you don't have to plan anything other than your alcohol and your treats or your rewards, right? So like, don't plan anything all day long. You can eat whatever you want when you're hungry. But I do want you to plan if you're going to have a couple of Old Fashioneds or whatever, like plan that out so you know what you're drinking. You're going to have some desserts at the dessert bar, whatever. I don't care what you eat, just plan it out. The next one is the 3-bite rule. So it's one of those things where you're not hungry and you didn't plan it, but you really want it. So you can have 3 bites of anything, 3 bites or 3 sips of anything without planning it. And I have a 5th one. It's funny.

I sleep when you're tired. Oh, go ahead.

No, no, no, it's so funny. Now I got to think about it because the 5th one was incorporating the fast, right? So we're doing They can do an optional fast, and that's basically to get back in touch with that hunger. So, so I, I did this because—

All of this is getting in touch with and noticing what you need and experimenting with having it and noticing, did 3 bites fill it up? I mean, all of this is give yourself permission to experience life and notice. Most of our— we set standards that keep us from experiencing life. And you are a human being. And if your rules are about how you're going to limit your experience of life, your life force will break through those rules. That's why denying yourself doesn't work. Your rules I love are like, go experience life, but notice what's helpful and what's hindering. Just notice. Do it. No guilt, no regret. Just get better information. Do some research. Yeah.

Yeah, like data collection all day long.

Data collection.

Oh, here's the part I wanted to tell you though. So this is the deal. When they don't do— like if they eat when they're not hungry or they, you know, I don't know, didn't plan their desserts and then they went all out, they have to write themselves a letter of compassion.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah. So it's not about, oh my gosh, I didn't— you know, a lot of my ladies were really hesitant to post when they didn't have a perfect day, but now You're starting to see that people are getting more comfortable posting that it didn't go as planned. And if it doesn't go as planned, the requirement is they have to write themselves a letter of compassion. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

I love it. And especially over the holidays, like what I've noticed is when I do lower my standards and you've got your challenge, mine's been at times a little bit different where I'm just like, I'm not going to go all out. What I notice is the important things, somebody else picks it up. Who wants to do that? So we have better, like, natural delegation. But the weirdest thing is, it all still happens. Like, when I lower my standards at work, I notice how often, like, oh, I don't respond to an email in 24 hours, and then somehow it gets taken care of by the time I get to my response. Like, we have the illusion that things happen because of us in this universe, and things happen in spite of us sometimes, and things happen with or without us. Like, there are things happening. Mm-hmm. It is just an illusion where we jump in and go, oh, I caused that, or I did that. So much the, the have-tos we have in our life are things that we've led ourselves to believe we have impact over that we don't. It's just extra activity.

I love that.

Amazing. Well, usually I end with, um, assignments for my listeners, but you've given us 2 great assignments: the holiday challenge and Gosh, what was the other assignment that was so good? Oh, the 3-2-1.

Yeah, yeah, 3-2-1.

The 3-2-1, learning to relax. I want people to participate in those assignments. I'm so excited as I transition and start the new year. A lot of my podcasts are going to be around well-being and stopping outsourcing your well-being to what's going on in your life and focusing on the messiness and how to clean it up or how to fix yourself up, and instead how to live happily in the mess, and how to do that at work, at home. And Dr. Ellie, you are, have been such a big part of my life. I'm so grateful for your friendship and your guidance. And I look forward to doing some great things together. People need to keep an eye out in the new year. We got some cool things coming.

I love it. And I'm so excited about your book. I cannot wait.

Thank you. How do they get connected with you? You have such great stuff out there.

So super easy. Website is lifecoachingforwomenphysicians.com. And from there, you can access my podcast. I have a blog on Instagram. I'm on there a little bit as well. And so it's just Ali Nowitzki, MD. And that's all my stuff. But the podcast is really fun. I'll be hitting episode 100. Actually, I got to get you on there really soon. So I would love that. Yeah, let's do that. But yeah, that's where you'll find me. Awesome.

Perfect, perfect, perfect. Um, and it's not just for physicians. So a lot of the people in my audience are in healthcare, but

yep,

um, that's just where your origin started. And you've helped many, many people who— in fact, you've helped a lot of people become not physicians after they become physicians.

That's right.

Which is a whole nother, whole nother topic. Everyone have a fantastic, um, week, and I am so thrilled to have had you on, and I look forward to the upcoming year.

Thanks so much.

This is the No Ego Podcast, where we ditch the drama, end entitlement, and transform your world place. I'm Sy Wakeman.