Why Most Marriages Fail and How to Build Thriving Relationships

Dating has never been more difficult and more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. What is going on with love these days? If you're looking to find the one or you're in a marriage and wanting to deepen your connection, you're going to love this conversation with Patricia Saleeb. She is a conscious relationship coach, serial entrepreneur, mother of three, and been with her partner for 20 years. In this conversation, we dive deep into what is missing in today's relationships. So, so let's dive in and find out. Patricia, I'm hoping you can answer this million dollar question. Why are so many marriages failing?

So many marriages are failing because they are based on attachment, not love.

So say more. What does that mean?

That means that there is almost like an exchange. You know, you do this for me, I do this for you. They'll go through a period of like infatuation and excitement that will quickly fizzle with time. Like that won't stay stand the test of time.

How do people prevent this from happening in their marriage? Because I assume most people, when they get married, they don't realize that they're doing this as a result of an attachment or a previous trauma, right?

So the only way love can flourish and deepen over time is when it comes from your true authentic self. When you take two beings that are in their true selves and they build a connection and do the work over.

A period of time, most people don't invest into the personal development. Most people will not even consider a coach or therapy until some sort of life crisis happens. And even though I haven't been married, you know yourself, who you've been with your partner for 20 years, you've got three kids, you're a serial entrepreneur, you've had your roller coaster experience of marriage. Now, for people who don't see the value in working with a coach or a therapy, and they only do it when it's, it's necessary. What is missing for people to prepare for a lifelong commitment? What, like, why is it. Because clearly this is a real epidemic where people are entering into marriage without really doing their own inner work, without healing their own traumas. And then they're trying to choose a life. They're trying to create a life by choosing a person that they're going to go all in with.

Culture creates no space for us to heal our trauma, for us to deepen our connection with self, for us to be in practice with another human being. This is not things that we talk about. We're like planting flowers and venues and weddings and dresses and we're even measuring how long people have been together versus like how alive is your relationship. So I forgot your follow up question.

My question is, is what can people do to prepare to have a successful marriage in doing their own inner work to be able to withstand the ups and downs and twists and turns of a marriage?

Now that is the million dollar question. Because if only more of us would do our own inner work before something catastrophic happened. Unfortunately, that rarely happens. You know, Rumi always says the wound is where the light enters. Right. And if you think about even our own personal journey, like the depth was created out of pain. Now if you're listening to this and it's happened where people have the wisdom to say, hey, let me like create an extraordinary life, let me create an extraordinary relationship, let me like light it on fire so that I go home to this partner. Whether you've been together for six months or 20 years. And it grows over time and it deepens and there's a tension put towards both yourself and this other human being that you're like going through life with.

I feel that often people choose a partner or they want to be married to complete a part of themselves, thinking that that's going to help them to feel more whole, that it's going to help them fix their problems. And as we know, relationships, especially marriage, is the biggest mirror. So people, if they don't have the tools, if they don't have the self awareness and the ability to communicate.

Yeah.

Then when those issues come up after the honeymoon period's over, then they're left with a situation that they're not equipped to really handle.

Right? Yeah. It just won't work. And there's a whole cultural like fantasy and fairy tale around little girls. I mean, just look at Disney. You're planning it from like 4, 5, 6 years old. Prince Charming comes, he sweeps you off your feet, you're planning your wedding day and your wedding dress and no one's talking about how to create a meaningful relationship. So there's this idea there, this attachment to marriage. If you look at so many girls who have this vision of their wedding and this idea that once I'm married, once I have children, everything will be great and I promise you, it will be like your biggest awakening, whether it's your partner or your children, that there is nothing outside of yourself that will complete you. And it certainly won't be your partner and it definitely won't be your children.

Yeah. And again, if you're not equipped with the tools, if you don't have the ability to Understand what you're feeling and communicate that effectively. It's. It's just going to spiral downwards. I mean, that's what they say. You know, 75% of divorces happen because a lack of commitment. And that can look like not being able to communicate effectively, not being able to share common goals, and most importantly, not being able to come to an amicable resolution. What I would love for you to answer is, you know what. What is it that you think women don't understand about men?

I love that you asked what women don't understand about men.

Well, I'm going to ask the inverse after that. Yeah, exactly.

I think men have had it really hard. I think that so much of what men might do, generally speaking, very generally, it's not everyone, where there's a lack of connection, a lack of intimacy, a lack of really seeing a female. I think that becomes a burning question for women, like why this can be so easy for you. You can just like, hear me, you can see, see me. We can communicate. You can tell me what is wrong without shutting down and disappearing. Like we could have a civil conversation, you know. And so I think for women, they're often perplexed with patterns that show up in men due to their own trauma. And then it just leads to fighting, it leads to battles, it leads to taking it personal like, you don't care about me or like, you don't see me. And when it has nothing to do with them, they don't understand why they may not be feeling seen or heard in a relationship.

Yeah. And because men, we want to problem solve, we always want to come up with the answer, you know, and we don't know how to often feel because we're not attuned to our own feelings and emotions. Right. And men constantly want to problem solve. They want to come up with like, let's just get over it and move on.

Yeah.

And for women, that obviously doesn't work. They just don't want a solution. They just want to be hurt 100%. But what is it you think men don't understand about women?

I think what men often miss about women, and if we, you know, if we go a little deeper, it's not even like what women or men don't understand. It's like men can only see a woman to the degree that he sees himself. So through his lens of trauma or projections or stories, he just can't see her. And then she's complaining. Now she's like, you're not listening to me and you're not making time for Me. And now he's really annoyed. Now he's taking off, you know? And so it becomes this cycle of pain and suffering where no connection is deepening. Nobody feels seen, seen or heard, and no one's healing their trauma. Talking about relationships from, like, a. A surface level, like, going, oh, marriages fail. Oh, how do we get people to communicate more? Won't go as deep as necessary in order to create a meaningful relationship. So it's almost like, how can. How can we go deeper to talk about why there's so many people in this, like, arrangement of a relationship that's really uninspiring? The goal isn't to stay married. It's to, like, be connected, to be intimate, to be alive. Right. And so I think these are the questions that, like, what does it take to create an extraordinary relationship?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's happening right now is the paradigm of marriage where culturally, you know, we are the children of parents who came over from the old country.

Yeah.

And there they got married for procreation. They got married for economic stability. The roles of the husband and wife were very different back in India or Pakistan or Italy or Europe or wherever. So we have this paradigm of what we think marriage is supposed to be based on what we inherit from our parents. But times are different, and the expectations of our conditioning versus the reality of today are completely skewed. And what I find is that there is this mismatch of how each partner thinks they're supposed to show up in the marriage. And because they don't know how to communicate their expectations, their disappointment, their frustration, it starts to build resentment, it starts to build contempt. And that is really what I believe the. The. The plague within the relationship that starts to deteriorate it from the inside out. And, you know, so for yourself, being in a relationship with your husband for 20 years, having three kids, being a successful entrepreneur, like, what is your secret that you've been able to hold it together for this long?

And, you know, I share that. I've been married earlier or I've been in a relationship for 20 years, and then I always follow that up with. That's not what I'm most proud of. The time doesn't matter. You know, we began our relationship with our trauma. It was very much an attachment relationship. And it was through our journey of growth and doing the work. Sorry. It was through our journey of growth and doing the work that it evolved into what it is today, which far surpasses anything we've had 20 years ago. That takes two willing people. And we've had to go through a lot of deaths in our relationship. This wasn't like 20 years of LA Dee daddy. You know, everything's amazing is it took a lot of unpacking, it took a lot of deconstructing. And the degree that we're willing to do that, to shed what's not ours, what doesn't belong to us and actually see each other not through the filter of our trauma, but through the possibility we're creating in our future is what will allow a relationship to, to thrive. We're not doing that in relationships. We're measuring them based on are you married, how long have you been together? We're putting them in some kind of a construct or box trying to say that's successful, that's not successful. How many married people do we know that are completely miserable? We saw that with our parents generation. And when we talk about bringing consciousness to our life, when we talk about levels of living, sure, you can do that, you can get married out of survival and like, I'll do the dishes, you like, you know, pick up the steaks, whatever, we can do that. But that's just a really low level of living compared to what could be possible if you did the kind of work that would have you see another human being fully and also have you see yourself fully. That kind of connection is so rare today, it's not talked about.

That's a whole different paradigm of what totally marriage can mean, because that is co creation in the true sense. And again, when people choose to get married thinking it's going to solve all their problems, having kids is going to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. What they don't realize, it just complicates things more so. And all the stuff that's been pushed down, suppressed starts to come up. And if you don't have the ability to communicate and be open with one another, then that just gets amplified. You know, just speaking for my own personal example, I grew up with two parents who didn't know how to communicate to one another. My father was someone who was more in his feminine energy. He wasn't really a great role model as a, as a man. For my brother and I, a lot of the finances depended on my mom. So I had a dynamic where my mom was in her masculine, my father was in his feminine. And I watched all this fighting and all this turmoil in the house between two people who just did, didn't know how to communicate. And them coming from the old country, moving from Pakistan, they didn't understand about communication and how to handle, like, conflict resolution. And that is something that was really imprinted on both my brother and myself. And I would say probably a big part of the reason why I'm still single and haven't been engaged or married, Because I saw what marriage looks like when things go wrong. Not knowing, as you said, happy marriages, you know, or my uncles and aunts, we're all going through their own issues. And for many people, they inherit this perspective of what marriage is. And that's why I think a lot of people are actually afraid to get married. And when they do get married, it's almost like in the back of their heads, they know, like, okay, there's a good chance this probably won't work out.

So.

So when it comes to conflict resolution, when it comes to being able to communicate and work through these issues, what do you think the biggest missing is in relationships?

If you ask anybody who's having trouble communicating, no one wants that. Everybody wants to be able to express themselves. Everybody wants to be able to hear another person. Just like we all want to eat healthy and live our best life, right? But the reality is that doesn't always happen. And the reason we have trouble communicating is often we're triggered by our partners. You say something to me that triggers something from my past. I say something to you that triggers something from your past. Now we're going. We're in a boxing match here, right? So the reason communication becomes so hard is not because we don't have the words. It's because we haven't healed our trauma. And we're always viewing one another through a lens of our own past and our own pain. If you're in a relationship or have been in one, I want you to look at the things that have come up. Notice how consistent they are. Notice how reoccurring they are. Notice if you've been with your partner for 10 years, you're likely having the same arguments over and over again. There's a pattern that needs to be transformed. There's pain that needs to be healed. And so when we think about marriage, we can't do marriage. Marriage is a construct. We're talking about being with a human being, right? What is it going to take to actually be with another human? Because even if you found the words and you did everything right, it would still lack connection. It would still lack aliveness, it would still lack intimacy. So the only way to authentically connect, and if you choose to do that in a union of marriage, beautiful. But have that authentic connection through your being, be there first.

I feel that one of the biggest reasons why marriages are ending up in divorce is because people are not fully choosing to see things through to the end. Even though it says till death do us part. I feel like many people will give up and think it's easier to move on to the next relationship, the next person, and that it's going to be easier than actually doing the deep work that's required to work through the situation you're currently in.

Totally. And I think there's two ways of looking at that. There's a difference between being in a situation where you have unhealed trauma, you have reoccurring patterns, you have the same conflict, and no one's doing anything about it. To me, that's like the ultimate form of insanity. It's going to cost you your health, your well being, any kind of connection, and then you die. It's very uninspiring. Right. Versus being on a journey with someone, someone where you're facing your own shadow, where you're learning to hold space for another human being, where you're in this dance of, like, growth and elevating together. And that's what a relationship could be like, and that's what it should be like if you're doing the work and growing and evolving. Times have changed. You know, our marriages don't. We don't rely on each other for income or for being able to be in housing together. Our relationships have evolved into wanting a more intimate and connected partnership versus, again, just the exchange or things that we've seen in generations prior. Now there's two scenarios. One looks like we're going to bring in our pain. We're going to do things like we've always done them. We're going to have our triggers and our traumas and our patterns, and we're going to survive each other, likely cause some illness at some point and just create a miserable existence, then pass that on to our children so they can go create the same thing in their life, or we can be on a path of healing. We can have the courage to face our shadow, to hold space for our partner. That's what devotion looks like. That kind of partnership will stand the test of time. Not because you're obligated, not because you want to satisfy culture, but because your connection will deepen, your intimacy will deepen. And as problems arise, you're not running away. You're not trying to get out of your own discomfort or your own triggers, but you're transforming them together. It's like the ultimate spiritual practice.

I feel that often in Situations where one partner is doing the work and the other isn't. There's almost this fear of, you're going to outgrow me or you're now going to change and maybe you're not going to want me anymore.

And.

And in a perfect world, it would be beautiful if both men and women wanted to embark on the journey together. But in many cases, they don't. So what's the solution to that?

I wish I had one for you. I don't. And I'll tell you why. When you have two human beings and one is willing to grow and one is not, at some point that will be unbearable. Yeah, that will be very uninspiring. Now, often in relationships, there's people that are doing the work, but they're not embodying that with their spouse. They're not actually showing up with integrity. They're not in communication. They're not. So when people around you are assessing the work, they're like, I don't want that. I'm not doing that. It, like, lacks integrity. So someone who's authentically doing the work and wants to inspire others has to look at how they're actually embodying it themselves. And if your partner is, like, repelling against you, I'd say take a, like, deep, hard look at how you're actually showing up with your partner and how much of the work you're actually embodying rather than, like, rhyming off some insights.

Yeah.

Big difference.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and resonates because I do, you know, one thing I share with my clients who say, you know, I'm having all these breakthroughs, I'm making all these amazing changes. But my wife, she just won't take me seriously. And I let them know, like, look, you've been a certain way for the last 10, 15 years.

Yeah.

And now you're six months into the work and you're meditating and you're doing breath work and you're being this man of integrity. You've got a history of not showing up. You've got a history of disappointing her, of not making her feel seen and supported. And now you expect after a few months she's going to.

Yeah.

Have trust in you again. And that's where it can often be discouraging, because you're doing the work. And of course it's challenging and it can be difficult at times, and you want your. Your wife to see it and appreciate it, but it takes time. You've got to be the proof. You have to show that this isn't just some talk. This isn't just some, you know, fixer up scheme. It's something that actually you have to really practice and embody and time will tell and show and prove that you are this new version of yourself. And that can be a very difficult transitional time because it requires the most resilience and persistence and faith. And it's a necessary part of the journey because on the other side of that is her willingness to see you and to actually believe you and feel safe with you again.

Totally. Now let's talk hard truth. Okay. Because most, whether it be men or women doing the work will go home as this enlightened being. I'm in my highest self after like a million lacks of integrity with their partner, they're going to show up floating from the sky. Yeah. And the moment their partner is like, I call B.S. they're like, to hell with you. It takes one second.

Yeah.

For them to be back in an old construct, an old way of being in an old pattern. So that's their opportunity to practice. 1, 2. My question is, have you cleaned up your last 10 years with your partner?

Yeah.

Have you actually excavated that? Have you owned your BS before you try to put lipstick on a pig and pretend like you're Holy Almighty. So there's a lot of like, layers within how we grow. And I'm growing and you're not. And usually when someone is like, not into the work, there's something for us to explore. Because when you embody the work, you inspire those around you. And there are times where someone's not willing to grow, they're not interested, it doesn't matter. They're so attached to their pain. And when you have a relationship with yourself that you value. I can speak personally when I talk about deep deaths in my relationship. There were moments where my husband, who was the trade floor guy, who was winning at life, who, you know, had a view of how things should be, and he was winning. To have me talk about the work to him was French. And at. There have been times where I have to say, I love you and let's co parent I love you. And. And that was an act of self love. That wasn't a. That wasn't out of a conflict, that wasn't a fight, it wasn't a battle. It was a deep realization that if somebody isn't willing to grow with me after I've embodied the work and continue to, then we just want different things in our life. And that's okay.

Yeah. So on that note, what are your Thoughts around, you know, somebody's been together 10 or 15 years, they've been through their share of challenges and one person's doing their work, they've evolved. They are a more complete version of themselves. The partner isn't willing to match them. Yeah, partner is resistant to. It wants to stay stuck in their patterns. Do you feel in a situation like that separation or divorce is. It's necessary?

Absolutely. You know, I always say check your own integrity first. Personally, I couldn't be in a partnership with somebody who wasn't on a journey of growth that just wouldn't align for me, you know, and when you get present to what life can feel like, when you're really connected to yourself and you're connected to other people and how much possibility and aliveness and joy and freedom and peace, you're not going to give that up because someone wants to stay stuck. I mean, I wouldn't. So usually that's another attachment to a construct that you might not have even chosen.

And. And that, I think, is where a lot of people, culturally, based on, you know, societal norms or whatever, they think they need to stay playing this role of marriage. They stay in it, and it's filled with resentment, contempt. And then you raise children in that environment. You know, just going back to my own story. My mom, because, you know, coming from Southeast Asia, you know, stay together for the kids.

Yeah.

My mom would tell me, you know, if it wasn't for you kids, I'd be out of here. And when you kids are old enough, I'm leaving. And my brother and I grew up in that environment. Whereas looking back now, it's like, I wish they would have separated earlier to move on so they could both find new partners and actually be happy. But a lot of people will just stick it through and just accommodate it and just live with it. And that, I believe, for the children is the worst thing you could do.

Totally. Would you rather have two bodies in a home together duking it out every second night, or would you rather have two parents that are like, lit up and alive that you can spend time with that show you how to create that in your own life? Yeah, I don't think everyone should stay married. I don't think marriage is, you know, a life sentence when there is an alignment. And the truth is, most of us enter marriage without having this clarity for ourselves. We're attached to this construct, not actually looking at or knowing who I am as a human being. You know, when I got married, I certainly didn't have that connection with myself and who's this human being and how are we going to grow together? Who are we going to be in the world together? We don't ask these questions.

Yeah, so that's. I'm glad you said this. So one thing I'd love to know is knowing what you know now, what advice would you give your 21 year old self who just met Boris and knowing that you're going to spend the next 20, 30, 50 years together, what advice would you give that young Patricia at that moment?

You don't get what you want, you get what you are. And so I attracted the partner who our false selves worked at that time. That's who I was at that time. That's who he was at that time. Thankfully, we both grew together. What I would tell that 21 year old girl is prioritize your own personal growth, prioritize knowing who you are, meet yourself newly where you will find and attract the kind of partner that you'll want to create a life with and that your children will be inspired by.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And I believe that we attract the person that we need to trigger us to heal what is unresolved. And we'll keep meeting that same person in a different body until we learn the lesson 100% so that we can overcome that, to then be ready to receive the One. Because I believe God won't send us the One until we're actually ready. Otherwise we're just going to ruin it.

Yeah. And you can't receive them. You know, you can't. We have an idea of who we want, but where are you? This is always the question, you know, all of us have a laundry list of what we're entitled to. Not responsible for how we show up. Right. So whatever we want to create. You know, I always tell people, make a list of everything you want. What do you want? Oh, integrity and trust and honesty and respect and loyalty. I'm like, great, become it.

Yeah. Rather than looking for the One, can you become the One?

Can you embody everything you seek in another human being? Can you embody that so that that person shows up and is attracted to what you're putting out into the universe?

And that's advice our mutual friend and coach, Audrey gave me.

Yeah.

You know, as you know, I've been on this journey to find the One for many years. And she said, I have a. I have an exercise for you. You ready to take this on? I'm like, if it's gonna help, absolutely. She said, write down all the qualities, all the characteristics, all the wonderful Things you can think about this dream woman, this amazing goddess who you desire to be with, and not just about color of her hair and, you know, how pretty she is, but, like, what is she really about? What are her hobbies? What is she passionate about? What are her values? What does she stand for? What's her relationship like with her family? So, you know, I probably filled out four pages writing all these amazing qualities and characteristics about this dream woman. And then she asked me, so this amazing woman that you've described, who is the man that deserves to walk side by side with her? Who is the man that she's drawn to, that is the reciprocal to her? And I started looking at the list, and I'm thinking, and, okay, so I'm writing down some of his qualities. And she asked me, how many of those qualities of that man do you embody? And I had to be real with myself. I'd say, well, yeah, I mean, okay, I. Yeah, like, I got some work to do. She said, yeah, and that's it. Not that you change to become someone, but when you do your own work to embody the qualities that are important to the type of woman you want to be with, you don't have to look for that woman anymore. She shows up because you're now an energetic match for that woman. That's right. And change of lifestyle, change of habits, change of friends, change of mindset. You are now in alignment. You are now a resident match for that woman. And there's a greater odds she is going to cross your path because you're now playing on the same level. And I think a lot of people have these expectations of who they want to be with. They've got their list down. Oh, yeah. But then it's like, okay, well, this is an amazing human. Why would they want to be with you? What value are you putting out there? How are you going to reciprocate to receive this amazing woman? And that's where I think some people are a little bit delusional. And I used to say, I know the woman I want to be with doesn't want to be with a guy who's in a club five nights a week, traveling to Coachella, going to Miami music conference. You know, that lifestyle I was living in, nightlife, wasn't conducive to attract the type of woman that I want to be with. So I consciously made changes in my lifestyle, who I spent time with, where I vacationed, how I was increasing my own value so that I can call in that partner. Because, you know, I. I feel that often people want this amazing human in their life. But what value are you bringing to the relationship? And that's where I think a lot of people aren't quite. And this is where I think a lot of people are falling short. Yeah, they aren't bringing value to the table. And I'm not talking in a monetary sense or you know, how good looking or how great your body is, it's more. So how are you going to enrich this other person's life? If you're going to co create a future together, how are you going to support that family, your children and provide a future? Right. Whether you're the husband, the provider, the protector, the procreator, whether you're the, the mother, the nurturer, you know, the one to really keep it all together. And this is where I feel there's a confusion and misunderstanding is what does the man, what does a woman bring to the relationship? And just the roles and expectations of the masculine and feminine these days I feel are very distorted or even misunderstood. Which is why I feel there is a real challenge with dating and meeting a partner these days and staying in relationship. What I would love to hear you share on is the role of the masculine and feminine.

Yeah.

How do you feel both need to show up to create a truly juicy, deeply loving, committed relationship?

That's such a good question because there's a lot of talk about the masculine and feminine nowadays. And it's like I hear women trying to be more feminine, masculine, how do I be masculine? You see this, these energetic states are part of our natural state of being. So it's less of a doing and more of a returning back to self from this place. You're not trying to be something. Let me try to be the funny one. Let me try to be the protector now, now let me try to be the man you already are. But we're so disconnected. We've become so disconnected from that place that it's been replaced with variations of masks and shoulds. And people feel that you can sense it a mile away. And it just doesn't create the kind of unity that an authentic masculine where there's security, where there's safety, where there's integrity and there's clarity. And the feminine, where there's love and there's creativity and there's passion, those will not interconnect in the way that true masculine and feminine energy does when it's in its purest of forms.

You know, for many years women have been told obviously they're equal. You should be earning as much you know, you should be working as hard. And the, the truth is, is the men have their role, women have their role, and there's certain things men can't do that women can and vice versa. And I feel like there is this movement of women wanting to be the nurturer, to be the mother, to take care of certain things that the man can't. And there is this, I would say, almost like taboo of both sides accepting, hey, I'm the man. And in order for this recalibration to happen, both the masculine and the feminine need to be very transparent, be able to clearly communicate. This is what I can offer and bring to the table. This is what you can offer, bring to the table. How are we going to co create and make this work together and accept each other's roles and contributions and build from there as opposed to having these expectations? And that's where I feel, instead of having these expectations of a woman doing something that's not in her natural essence and a man as well, being able to be supported in being a man and in many ways also guided, because I think a lot of men are almost confused about what it means to be a man. You know, with the MeToo movement and with, you know, this whole toxic masculinity topic out there, I think, you know, it's, it's challenging to be a man in many ways right now. And we need the guidance, we need the support of the feminine for us to really rise up, to be our best version of herself. Because I'm seeing that, you know, some women are jaded. Oh, I don't need men. I could do my own thing. I can make my own money. Men are jaded, thinking women are just out to get me. I'm not taken care of anyways. I'm not, you know, being appreciated. And you have these two sides of people who just want love, they just want connection, but they're not able to see and meet each other and compromise to co create together. And I think it's really sad because there's a lot of lonely single people out there who have a lot to offer but don't know how to bring it together. And then there's a lot of people in marriage who are not happy, but they're just staying together for whatever reason. They think they need to tough it out. And it's just, it's not the way we're meant to live and love and co create together. So, you know, what, what do you think is missing? What do you think will help create a healthy, loving marriage? What elements do you feel are necessary?

So when we talk about what a woman desires or what a male. What a male desires, there isn't too much to think about. You know, this comes from, like, a deep connection within that won't require strategy, explanation, exchange even. Can you do this? I do that. You do so intrinsic to that human being. And I think where we've lost our way is in all the cultural shoulds. Where the wind blows. Now we're all boss bags. Now we're all mothers. Now we're all. We keep trying to put into a box what it is to be a woman, what it is to be a man, what a perfect relationship can look like. Rather than simply go back to the place of your truest essence. This is the space of your true self. This is like who you are before trauma happened to you. This space is so pristine. It's so beautiful. It's so clear. It doesn't have the mind going, da, da, da, da, da. Should I, should I? Should I, should I? It just is. And it can't be moved because it's who you are. And that space exists for a man and a woman. And when those two humans find each other, when that connection meets, time just makes it richer. Time just deepens the intimacy. Time just creates more power. And then we get to teach our children how to be in that kind of a union. This is so unfamiliar to culture. This isn't. People will listen. What is she talking about? She smoked up right before this podcast. You know, and I understand that because we're all leading with our minds. We're all trying to figure it out. We're all trying to do the right thing. And by doing this relationship thing, we're missing what it's like to be with a human being.

Yeah, that's. In a perfect world, that would be the ideal scenario. And I feel that because our parents didn't grow up with personal development, because they didn't do their work, we've inherited their trauma, we've inherited their patterns. But we are the generation that has these resources. We have coaches and retreats and all these different healing modalities now available to us that we can choose to do our work to heal what's necessary so we don't pass it on to our children and hoping that our children are the next generation who can do their inner work, who can choose a partner not from a place of needing to feel complete or needing to have someone to heal them, but more so to choose a partner because they actually know who they really are, and they are Entering a relationship from that deep sense of understanding themselves. And I'm not saying this generation, it's hopeless for them, but I feel we are the transitional generation of going from parents who are unconscious, who just survived within one another, to us who are going through these experiences, having the challenges and the old triggers come up, and then realizing that we have our work to do to be able to create that deep, loving relationship and ultimately teaching our children what it is we've learned so that they can have a head start. You know, I often say to my clients, like, I can't even imagine who your children are going to be because you're doing this work, you know, and, and those children are going to be enlightened, they're going to be conscious right from their early formative years. And that's what really inspires me to think that this planet is going to be a much better place in 40 or 50 years because it's, it's our clients, children who are going to have this deep level of self awareness thinking for more from a higher consciousness that are going to help us get back on track. And for now, it's up to us to recognize that nothing changes if nothing changes and we are in control of how things are going to unfold. And for many people, it's a hard pill to swallow to look in the mirror and realize I'm the problem, you know, rather than just blaming the other person, because blaming the other person isn't going to fix things, right? It's about taking accountability and taking ownership and really being willing to, to do the work. And, and on that note, I have a question for you because we've known each other for a very long time and you know, I've been on this journey to meet my partner. I want to get married, I want to have children. And I've done my fair share of deep work and I feel that I have a good understanding of what's missing or what issues there are for me to overcome. But in your professional opinion, both knowing me personally, but also being a professional, conscious relationship coach, what do you think I need to do or who do you think I need to be in order for me to call in that dream woman that I'm desiring?

I love that you asked this question. I love that you asked this question. And it actually speaks volumes to your journey and your desire to seek and learn and grow. And what I will tell you is first, give up all the work you've done. Give up everything you know, give up every course you've taken, every badge you have every. And enter a space of curiosity where you are looking for unhealed patterns, where you are looking for any lack of integrity, where you are looking for where our past patterns are creeping into the future. And you will see things that you will not be able to see through the lens of a coach. You know, when I first had my children and I was like, I'm a conscious parent. Words, I'll never breathe again, literally. And after continuing my path of some very deep work, I realized that I'll forever stay in the not knowing. And every day I wake up not knowing. And every day I wake up and I enter a curiosity that leads me to something I didn't know yesterday. And so in our industry, it can be dangerous for those of us who've worked with teachers and masters and courses and badges to have it all figured out. And then we're really stuck because we're like, it's really out of our view, but it's there. And now there's the willingness to look, and it's in the crevices. It's like in the smallest of places.

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, and I respect and appreciate, you know, and I respect your knowledge and your wisdom. When I have been in relationships in the last few years, it quickly reminds me how much I don't know.

Yeah.

Because when you're in this work and you've done the conscious communication, you've done the, you know, self development and all the different programs, you think, okay, I got this. I've got figured out now. And then you enter the relationship and you realize how much you don't know.

And.

And yes, there is a humility that's required and a curiosity and a willingness to just see that. Yeah, I still got a lot of work left to do.

Yeah. And if your relationship doesn't do that for you, which it will, I promise your parenting will. You can't escape that.

Yeah.

And not possible. And so when there's a curiosity and a lightness to it, there's no make wrong. There's no, you're not beating yourself up. You're not. Like, I should have known that. Why am I here? Why am I reacting this way? Or why did I do that thing again? There's no judgment. There's love and compassion for yourself and just curiosity. And if the journey feels light like that, if you can make a mistake, if you can mess up, if you can stare at your shadow without the judgment and ridicule that we often give it, you'll continue seeking and you'll discover Things that were out of your view that you may not have had the courage to find.

Yeah. And that's where it requires humility.

Yeah.

And surrender and trust.

Yeah, totally trust.

Yeah.

And I love that you asked that question.

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing your knowledge and your wisdom, and thank you for sharing all that you did today. You know, I have a great, great, great admiration for you. It's been beautiful to witness your evolution from serial entrepreneur and mom and wife to now sharing your light and sharing your wisdom and your magic with. With others. And it's. It's. It's beautiful to witness and to support and to walk alongside you on this path and. Yeah, just. I'm excited for what you got. Coming up next, Life Mastery and your other projects, you want to share just a little bit about what's in the near future for you.

Yeah. And I will say this. The feeling is just so mutual.

Thank you.

It's been such a beautiful journey to witness, and it continues. And there is just so much beauty to how I said this earlier. You continue to seek and to grow and to evolve. And we've had this, like, parallel of doing the work and leading the work, and we continue to work together in so many different ways. And I'm excited to keep exploring that.

Thank you again. One thing I will say to that is, Even though I'm 50 and I am still single, I can honestly say I'm glad I've waited this long, because it's taken me this long to really know and understand myself. And I feel that when I meet that partner, when I choose marriage, when we have children, it's coming from a place of I, with every cell in my body, am choosing this person because it's coming from the wisdom and the knowledge of all of my life experiences, all the healing, all of the things I've had to overcome to be this version of who I am today. And I'm choosing my partner from this sense of knowing myself.

Yeah, I love that. Because the relationship should be the manifestation of connection with self, not the carrot to chase or the target to get right. And so if you come from that place, what will emerge will be beautiful and authentic and, you know, to share briefly. Yes. We're launching a new platform called Life Mastery. It's LifeMastery. CO. And when we talk about healing trauma, I know this is something we both do, that you can't access parts of your life without healing your past. It will always create a lid or a limitation. And being able to support people, especially with their relationships with their parenting. To break intergenerational traumas and cycles has been, like, the ultimate gift for myself. And it's, as you know and as you witness, like, day after day, it's a genuine honor to share this work. Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you for your support and thank you for your love, and thank you for walking this path alongside me.

No, thank you for all of your support and your friendship and your wise, wise words of wisdom. I always enjoy a conversation. Appreciate you being here on the Path podcast today and looking forward to seeing what's next for you.