From Public Service to Private Enterprise: How Leaders can Navigate a Cross-Sector Career

Hello everybody. Happy Thursday and welcome to today's webinar discussion hosted by the team here at ClickBook. We're really excited for the discussion, so we'll go ahead and jump right in. Jim, are you ready to jump in?

Let's do it.

All right, let's do it. Awesome. We'll start with some really quick introductions. To introduce myself, my name is Adam Joseph, founder and CEO here at ClickBook. At Clipbook, we're an AI research and analysis platform for communications teams and public affairs teams. Since we launched about 2 years ago, we've grown to support over 200 different organizations, firms, companies, nonprofits, government agencies across the country. Today's discussion and our conversation today, I'm very excited about for a number of different reasons, and I'll kind of go through 2 reasons I'm particularly excited. The first is we're at a very interesting time of year. I think really with January 2025, and we have a new president, a new administration. With that comes a lot of political appointees who are thinking about what's next. A lot of folks that are going into government, leaving government, an interesting career inflection point for many. So I think that's the first thing that makes this exciting is, hey, we're at this new moment in the year. The second is that we have, I think with that, a lot of great reflections on careers, both across public and private enterprises. What does that look like going forward? Forward. And honestly, the reason I'm most excited is that we have Jim, who is a rock star to speak to the topic at hand. I don't know where to start with Jim in terms of walking through his amazing career. He's currently a partner at Global Strategy Group and leads their GSG's DC office. Global Strategy Group, if you haven't heard of GSG, is a leading public affairs and research firm that really specializing in strategic communications, research, polling, and issue advocacy. Jim is one of the greats. He's been an advisor to global leaders at the intersection of politics, business, government, advocacy. And before joining as a partner at Global Strategy Group, Jim really had a really awesome and extensive career on Capitol Hill. Most recently was a special assistant to President Obama for legislative affairs. Jim also hosts the Staffer Podcast, which is a weekly podcast for former Hill staffers, really sharing their stories and experiences. Great podcast, super informative, definitely recommend it. So all to say, we're in for a really insightful, engaging discussion, so let's get started. And a reminder to our audience here, please drop your questions using the Zoom Q&A function. We'll answer as many of them over the course of the conversation as possible. So, Jim, to get started here, big topic today, in particular in our space in communications and public affairs, government, and so on. There's a long history of leaders really navigating a career that can be a fusion of both time in government, time in private enterprise, So how, for the folks joining the call today, how should they really think about career longevity across public and private sectors?

Yeah. First, let me say thank you for having me and for that very generous introduction. The word that you use, longevity, I think is the right word. A career is an arc. And serving in public service in any way is obviously an honor. I consider it one of the great honors of my lifetime. But it doesn't need to be the only thing you do and perhaps shouldn't be. Making sure you are throughout your career managing your integrity, always adding to your skill set, being the best teammate no matter where you're working. Those skills are applicable in public service and in the private sector. So I would just say being very attentive to those things, that's what's going to make a career really rewarding and give you the flexibility to go in and out of government service.

Yeah, that's great. And a lot of different threads I want to pull on there. Maybe we can just start, Jim, with, can you take us through a bit about the chronology of your career in government and now in private enterprise? I think for some of the folks on the call who haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting you, I think I'll mention to the audience, Jim has done just about everything that you can imagine in government and has just done some really awesome things. Jim, do you want to just maybe give us a quick timeline of your time in government and then we can go from there? Sure.

Like a lot of people, I stumbled my way into government service. I was fortunate. My first job was actually on a campaign in Connecticut. I took it after I graduated, in part because I was a little bit at sea. And I was fortunate enough to get a phone call to apply for a finance director job on a congressional campaign. And I went and I did that. I had a blast. I fell in love again with politics. And when my candidate lost, I came down to Washington and knocked on doors until I got my first real job, which was I worked in the Senate majority, rather the Senate minority leadership structure. So Tom Daschle was the minority leader at that time, and I worked in a leadership committee of his that was about technology and communications. I eventually became the deputy director of that office. I moved over to the House side about 3 years after that. I was communications director for Rosa DeLauro and eventually ran a leadership office for her. I served later as chief of staff to Congressman Rush Holt of New Jersey, who has subsequently retired. And my last job on Capitol Hill was I worked for Rahm Emanuel. This was right after the House Democrats took back the chamber. He was caucus chairman. My job was to get those freshman members who were elected in 2006 reelected in 2008. So I did that for one Congress. And when President Obama was elected and he asked Rahm to be his chief of staff, I headed down Pennsylvania Avenue and served in the Office of Legislative Affairs. That was 4 years. So almost 4 years during the first term. And then I came to Global Strategy Group right after that.

Yeah, so the House, the Senate, committees, offices, the White House, quite the triangulation of experiences. Looking at your role today at GSG, maybe you can maybe start by giving the audience a little bit of context of what you do at GSG. And then I would love to go back to your time in government and hear a little bit more about what did you learn? What were the sort of experiences you had that created a really practical through line to some of the work that you did later? So maybe we can start with GSG, what you do today.

Sure. So I run our Washington office. We now have about 55 people who work in Washington. When I came to Global Strategy Group, there were 3 of us. I was the 3rd person, and literally we were around a cardboard table in a supply closet because the weekend before I started, there had been some flooding in Georgetown and the offices were not usable. So we had to be in an oversized supply closet. So now, you know, you described it very well what Global Strategy Group does. I spend my day working with clients of all different types of industries. Industries, different forms of clients, whether they be companies or nonprofits or trade associations, really addressing legislative, reputational, regulatory goals and opportunities. So that's what I do day to day. And as I said, we've got, I've got 50+ colleagues who sit here with me in DC, and our client teams are all assembled based on what our client needs are.

Yeah. And no more cardboard tables. No.

We now have, that's right. Now the tables are much more solid. Yeah.

Nice, that's good, that's good. Both figuratively as well as actually, I guess. No, love that. Looking at your time in government, what were some of the most valuable learning experiences that you had? And how did you apply them at GSG and the work you do today?

Yeah, I think serving in government can be really great for a number of reasons. But one of them is that working in government and politics, one, is very public. So the work that you're doing will ladder up to a, a principal who is going to give a speech or take that information, that guidance public, or you're working for an agency, uh, and they are under scrutiny. Both types are under scrutiny from the media, from constituents, sometimes from congressional oversight and regulators. That as a fundamental part of what you're doing makes you internalize what potential criticisms could be coming your way. And the closer you get to a political environment, the more antagonistic it becomes. That's really helpful for thinking through what risks are we undertaking, what haven't we thought of, how can this go sideways, and what steps can we take now to mitigate those risks so that we're happy a week from now that we took the actions that we took today. So that is one thing that I think public service is really very good at honing. Second is that my experience anyway in government is that there's always much, much more work to do than there are people to do it. So you get a lot of responsibility at a pretty young age. And I became a chief of staff not long after my 30th birthday. It was something like, it was around then, which is not unusual. And all of a sudden I had to manage more people than I'd ever managed before in multiple offices. I had to oversee a political operation. And I was the person who had to answer for the budget, set a plan for the entire organization, and be, and really be responsible for answering that question, why did we do this? Or who thought this was a good idea?

Yeah.

And that type of responsibility at a young age is really helpful. Yeah. And I think it's probably underappreciated about people who work in government at any level. Yeah.

No, 100%. And it's funny when you, You think about Capitol Hill and DC and you walk by the big structures, the big— here's like the world capital of American politics and literally the US Capitol, but also the world capital, right, of global politics. And you realize when you're under the hood, it's actually like a lot of 20-somethings who are running the country in many ways, right? Working for a member of Congress, working for, you know, whoever it might be. The leverage that an individual 20-something can have in government can actually be like massive in many ways. So I imagine that can it just provides some room for growth that in other contexts maybe you don't necessarily have readily accessible.

That's right. You really have to grow quickly. And sometimes that is by making mistakes, which is part of everyone's career. But you don't really have a choice because of those, those other elements, like failures are public, just like your successes. There are antagonists who are waiting to criticize. So you learn quickly to think through those types of pitfalls. And at a young age, take responsibility for the decisions you make along the way.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, to be in a setting where your boss is in the news maybe every day or every week is actually quite unusual. How for the— and maybe I'm going to look at the— this is more for the juniors, the junior team members who are on the audience right now. They're in government. They're experiencing the pressure cooker of public life for you to be their principal. How do they make the most of that experience?

Boy, I would say take as much responsibility as you can, meaning if there is a jump ball for a new issue, take it, take it and learn as much as you can about it. This past year, a very major piece of legislation was passed finally that was relevant when I was on the Hill 15, 20 years ago now. It basically equalized access to Social Security benefits for different classes of workers. Yeah. When I was on the Hill, that was handled by the person who covered postal issues. And postal issues were well known as like the absolute lamest issue that you just gave the new person. My point in raising that example is there's somebody who within the last few years with that portfolio was working on it and it became a really relevant issue for their boss because the stars aligned and there became a political pathway for enacting that. There's all sorts of things if you're on the Hill, or what that could mean for your boss beyond passage. It means who in the community really cares? How are you communicating with them? What stories are you lifting up? So across all of the tools of what— of the government office that you're working in, how are you maximizing what's within your portfolio to the benefit of your boss?

Yeah, that's great. Looking at your career. I'm curious about what are the things that you've learned from specific principals over the years? From DeLauro, I definitely want to ask about Rom and just being a legend in his own right. And yeah, he's ambassador to Japan now. Is that right? Am I remembering correctly?

Yeah.

Yeah. For a couple of days. Yeah. But what were the differences, similarities that you saw across the principals? What are the things that you learned from them? Yeah. What kind of sticks with you now that you're in the position you're in as partner at GSG?

Yeah. I learned so much from all of them, but taking some things that come top of mind. When I worked for Rosa, I learned the benefit of squeezing every drop of value out of whatever you're doing. So if the boss is going to go to a local factory, we might have a press plan around that. Okay, good. But along the way, should she stop somewhere at a, is there a small business that she should pop into? Is there an op-ed that should follow the visit? Obviously today you would lay out a whole social media plan. It is, and what video are you capturing from that? How might you use it in the future? Can you fold some of the stills into your franked mail plan? All of these things are potentially left on the table if they're not thought about in advance. So that's one thing that I learned from Rosa. Next, Rush Holt, who I learned a great deal from, even though he is not known as being as politically savvy as a Rahm Emanuel or Rosa DeLauro, he had this wonderful saying. He said, I want to confound my constituents' expectations. So he said, with every phone call, with every constituent that walks in the door, or we meet on the sidewalk, I want them to leave feeling like, wow, the amount of attention and care that I got was far exceeding my expectations. And when you start with that type of leadership principle, it really drives conduct throughout the organization in a really beautiful and ambitious way. And from Ram, I learned that I'd say there is, there's no end to thinking through a problem. Meaning if there is a political challenge to be solved, you have to do everything possible to solve that problem for today or tomorrow. But because we are in the business of public opinion, it must be iterative. So the moment you start feeling good about, hey, we just had this big challenge and we delivered by bringing an ally to bear, or, right, we did something constructive today, it's okay, what's next? There's just— you move right on to the next If not another challenge, it is the next way to continue making progress on the challenge that's still around, probably better, but not over.

Yeah. So that's great, Jim. I really appreciate that. And yeah, I imagine you think about some of the personalities and the principles and so many things can make them distinctive in their own style. Some are very media savvy and just are hustling videos on TikTok and Instagram Reels or whatever it is. TikTok's going through its own moment right now, but Instagram or whatever it is, and then others who are just quietly executing policy with a lot of intellectual rigor, or others who are just master operators or master fundraisers or whatever it might be. Very interesting to think about. Your career in government landed in the White House. There is probably no better place in the world for somebody who wants to work in government than to land in the White House in some way, shape, or form. If let's say Adam wants to be a Hill staffer next year, is going to eventually want to go to the White House, how do you get the job in the White House? What does that actually look like? What do you have to do? What do you have to be good at? What doesn't matter? What really does matter? Do you have to work the campaign? Yeah, it's just a dizzying array of questions for getting that senior White House role. So what does that look like?

Yeah, it was an honor and a fantastic ride. I loved it. And there's a reason why all of us think maybe one day that would be a really special opportunity. I was very lucky to get there. And I think everyone who gets one of those White House jobs is lucky. And I, of course, I like to think I, I was good too, but good fortune is required. So I think I had two things working in my favor. One, as I mentioned, I was working for Rahm Emanuel when the President of the United States asked him to be his chief of staff. If you can work that out in your career in advance, go for it. But also, I don't think I would have made it had I not also known and been respected by Phil Schiliro. Phil Schiliro was the head of legislative affairs. He built his own staff. And fortunately, I knew Phil from my time on the Hill. He was somebody who I deeply admired. He had been the staff director of the Oversight Committee under Henry Waxman and a longtime Energy and Commerce staffer. I had actually asked him to come speak at a staff retreat that I organized for Rush Holt. That's how much I admired him. I wanted my staff to hear from him. So we knew each other. Whenever my name got floated by whomever for potentially being in the Office of Legislative Affairs, it only made it across the line because Phil Shulero knew me, respected me, and wanted me on his team. So I think that in addition to being lucky, there is that piece of, hey, just do great work. Do great work. Be a good teammate. And one nice thing about Capitol Hill, though I— this also very much applies to agencies all over Washington and around the country, is if you do good work day in and day out, the people who need to see it are going to see it. They're literally around you. They share offices with you, or you have exposure to the boss regularly. That's a really nice aspect of working in government and politics that doesn't always exist in the private sector. And just by contrast, as a consultant, we do a lot of great work here at our office, but our clients aren't co-located with us. So we have to be mindful of what those moments of making sure our clients understand and feel and know about our good work. Working in government politics, it's easier for the people who need to see it to observe it firsthand.

Yeah, that makes sense. So I mean, what you're getting at is A lot of DC, and I know I'm not the first person to have said this, but I'm going to say it anyway. A lot of DC is around relationships and cultivating a community of mentors, advisors, allies in DC who you might collaborate with down the road, right? When that person happens to become White House Chief of Staff or end up running Leg Affairs or whatever it is. So I guess like very practically, imagine you're in the earlier or mid stages of your career, you're in DC, you're working in government, what are the types of things that somebody can do to actually generate some of those meaningful professional relationships over the long term, really?

Yeah, I probably could have been more attentive to that when I was working in public service. I have made lifelong friends and through professional relationships at every place I've worked, but it wasn't because I went looking for them. It's because they developed organically. And there's just a lot of time spent on projects, sometimes in the trenches when it's a campaign and it's intense. So look for those opportunities. Look for those opportunities to be working not just within your office, but collaborating with other offices on something that's meaningful to the principal that you work for. Again, whether that be an elected official or in an agency. That to me is a number one. And then two, I do think that there is value in professional societies. And professional networks. So there are more of them today than existed when I was on the Hill. I do think that those are worth nurturing and showing up at meetings that bring together people from different offices.

Which ones have you found to be most interesting? Sorry not to put you on the spot, but I'm just, I'm curious because I know that like for some of our audience members, like they're very actively will go to the website right now and look and see. Yeah. So I'm just curious, any specific that come to mind?

So one that I'm not a member of, but I observe as very effective is the Senate Press Secretaries. Association. It's not just for active press secretaries, it's for alumni as well. They're very active. They have very good agendas and meetings. If you're still in government, I do think when they bring together those meetings of the chiefs of staff or the legislative directors, even if you think, uh, there's not much I'm gonna learn from at this upcoming meeting that hasn't been said already by leadership staff, go anyway. It is about connecting with your colleagues. I'm a member of the Congressional Chief of Staffs Association. So there are some of these alumni networks that exist and are useful. I've also heard very good things about Chief. I'm not a member, but Chief is an organization that brings together women leaders from various different professions.

Yeah, that's great. That's really great. I love that. I wanted to ask, I feel like DC has like this happy hour culture and you used the word organic earlier, like in terms of actually like having meaningful opportunities to authentically connect with people who you might work with and collaborate with over the long term. How in practice does that happen for, especially for junior staffers or frankly for leaders, right? And partners at firms or folks who are on the cusp of making partner at their firm. Is it going to the happy hour at name the DC bar? Is it Ivy Coney or is it something else? Yeah. I don't know what comes to mind.

It's a great question. And I think each person should figure out what works best for them. I, for instance, I don't do much in terms of like the happy hour circuit or the after work event space. Many people find that really rewarding. They get to connect with old friends. They also do it for business development purposes. That's just not what I do. I like to be home and have dinner with my family while my kids are still in the house, and I don't have much, much longer of that. So that, that's a choice I make. But I'll give you an example of a professional network that is now, that began because it was a work requirement that now has morphed into something bigger. When I worked for Rahm Emanuel, working with those frontline members, every Monday morning I would hold a meeting with the chiefs of staff of all of those frontline members, and it was 30, 35 members. And for those who have worked in similar offices, it's living on the edge of a political razor every day. So each week, in addition to what I would bring to the table of here are some things you ought to be thinking about, here are some things you ought to do, where are people on X, Y, and Z, they would also bring to the table challenges they were facing, and everyone around the table contributed to helping solve those things. Others could avoid those pitfalls in the future. We became a really tight group. I stopped holding that meeting when I went to the White House. I just had a different job. But when I left the White House, some of those chiefs of staff called me and they were like, hey, let's bring the gang back together. It's been a long time. So now for the last dozen years here at Global Strategy Group, about once a quarter, I bring that group together to hear from a speaker, to have an interesting conversation, and I've added to it over time. I've added White House colleagues. So it's grown substantially. It's a great group of people. I don't ask anything of them. I really don't provide anything but coffee, bagels, and a speaker. But it's a great way to stay in touch, learn from one another, and have a, a, I guess, personal benefit of these relationships lasting beyond the, the professional obligation of when they were right, when that was.

Yeah.

Required.

No, I love that. They must be great bagels, Jan. What can I say?

You can tell the conversation would not keep them coming back every question.

So, okay, you get to the White House. So when were you wrapping up your time in the White House again?

That was 2012.

2012. Okay. So you're just at the end of Obama One. Obama Two is about to start. You made a jump into the private sector. Tell us about the thought process. In my experience, there are two reasons that you make a job change. One are push reasons. The current job is not sustainable, or I'm like, I'm actively running away from something. The second is pull reasons where, oh, everything's fine in my current job, but I'm looking for something very actively. And the next thing, yeah, I guess what were some of the push reasons, some of the pull reasons, if any?

Yeah, I had spent 16 years in government service and I loved it. I loved every day. Even the bad days were good, as one congressman used to say. I was facing a, like, the reality of the rest of my life. I had a young family, so I had two little kids who were under four. I was still renting. I'd never owned a home. And I thought, I would like to own a house and I'd like to send these two kids to college one day. Those were my financial goals. As modest as they were, I needed to do something else to make those reality. And I say those out loud because sometimes people leaving government service feel a guilt about that or feel like they, they shouldn't have financial goals. And I just wanna say it's okay. Yeah. Giving service is meaningful whenever you give it and for however long you give it. And if you need to go do something to make the rest of your life work, work, that's perfectly fine. So that's one. What I was looking to get out of my next experience was I love communications and politics. And while I adored my job at the White House, it was legislative affairs. So I was not in the comms shop. I wanted to get back to my roots. So that's something that Global Strategy Group does. And I was really attracted to the idea of building something. The idea that I went from my desk at the White House to that cardboard table in the supply closet, some people may view that as a horrible comedown. And I knew it was a risk, right? There were other opportunities that would've put me in nicer offices. I knew it was a risk, but I liked the idea of trying my hand at entrepreneurship. I didn't know whether I was gonna be good at it, but I thought I'd give it a whirl and take some satisfaction if we were able to build something.

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. It's funny cuz I speak to so many people who have spent their careers in politics or government in some way, shape, or form. And there are a few reasons. One could be that Yes, like very tactically, I have 3 kids now and I'm thinking about just what does that look like for soup to nuts? It could be that. Sometimes it's just like the pace of play and the unpredictability of government life. I imagine the White House was like this, but definitely campaigns where you're sprinting for 8 months at a time and then you're unemployed for 4 or 5 months until you figure out, hey, what's next here? So the predictability of working in an organization that is going to exist in 5 years and is going to grow and is more stable and predictable can have a lot of appeals. So yeah, I think very much understandable for some of the things that you're talking about. But I guess to that end, there is a, oh, I'm going to do something I haven't done before in entrepreneurship or in business, and am I going to succeed? And what's that going to look like? And maybe I need to stay in government because this is what I know how to do. And also, by the way, vice versa, if you have spent a career in business and you want to go serve, then it's, oh gosh, do my skills translate? Do I know anything about government? What can I learn and pick up here? Well, makes sense, I may be taking a big pay cut. So how do you see people navigating some of those dynamics and also self-managing some of the uncertainty and the anxieties about making the plunge?

Yeah, I would say to both sides, whether leaving government service to go to the private sector or from the private sector to go into the public service or advocacy, both sides have skill sets that are going to help them succeed, meaning they already probably have the skills that they're going to need to succeed. It does take a little time to transition, and I can speak in the direction of government service to private sector. An analogy I use is, do you remember the squiggly line posters where you stare at them and you're not sure what it is, but eventually it clicks and you're looking at the Statue of Liberty?

Right.

That to me was about a year into consulting. I knew how to do a lot of the work, but it required a 15-degree shift in perspective. And I'm still learning every year. So if you're coming from government to the private sector, of course, give yourself grace. Go in with confidence, but give yourself grace to learn and to make some mistakes. The reputation of the private sector for being lightning quick It has not been my experience. The, the private sector, they take their time very often making deliberative decisions. And if you come from an environment, say, on Capitol Hill or even in the White House where the number of people who may have to sign off on a decision is a handful, that's not the case with major companies. Get comfortable with that idea. I'd also say the policy debate almost any policy debate does not allow for the amount of complexity that the private sector has to deal with. So even if you are a policy expert and you know something extraordinarily well, also go in with the humility and the modesty to learn even more about the industry in which you're going to work, or even more about the company in which you're going to work, because in a, say, new law or a new regulation, those hundreds of pages, every one of them is going to matter. Or something that some people thought was minor when it was being deliberated or wasn't even surfaced for conversation, that might mean everything to your client, your company, your industry.

And just a reminder to our audience that you can use the Zoom Q&A function to volunteer any questions that you'd like me and Jim to, to touch on during the course the discussions. Yeah, feel free to drop them in. We'll get to as many of them as possible. So Jim, just to pick up what you just said, you'd mentioned earlier in government there's a high degree of scrutiny and exposure to your work, which can have a lot of learning that just goes along with that, which I think is great. And you also mentioned a high degree of ownership where you get responsibility. You get to really just have at a pretty young age sometimes a lot of at-bats and a lot of reps for pretty big important decisions. I imagine those translate quite well to the private sector. I'm curious, you're somebody who's seen folks go from public to private in various ways over the course of their career. What are the things that government operators have to unlearn in order to succeed in the private sector? What are the bad habits that they bring from their time in government that really they need to kick before they jump into business?

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, I'll start with a micro example. In my world. If I had, when I was a chief of staff on the Hill, if something just erupted on a Wednesday and I needed all of my staff to drop what they were doing and now focus on this new priority, we could do that. I could walk in and make an announcement in the back room and all of a sudden have everyone prioritize that. I now work in an environment that's a consultancy. And at any given time, let's say I've got 10 different clients. That's 10 different client teams. Some of those people are sitting here, some of them are elsewhere in the country, and all of them have multiple other clients that report to other people. So I can't just grab as many people as I want at any time and say, okay, now I'm the priority. I have to work that out. Now we have crises erupt all the time and we are responsive when our clients have crises that need immediate attention from the team that services them. But it needs to be done thoughtfully and in a different way than I could have done when I was on Capitol Hill. So that is one thing that is very different from my time on Capitol Hill. Other things to unlearn. This is no great insight, but clearly partisanship has gotten considerably worse in Washington and across the country. And it is actually possible, but to be highly successful in some political environments, being a total partisan. And really, most of the time to achieve a durable success, it's going to take some level of bipartisanship. And chances are you may find yourself in an environment where your colleagues now have different political views. That's just something to be mindful of and know what type of environment you're seeking and walking into, because some of those habits, what, what worked and had great purchase in more political environments will not have the same purchase in other environments.

Yeah. And I can very much resonate with that. For myself, in the early part of my career, I was running campaigns. I ran a gubernatorial campaign in Michigan. And afterwards, I was at the Boston Consulting Group in the DC office, and BCG is a $15 billion revenue business operating across dozens of countries. It's working with all sorts of different— within America, of course, folks that are quite diverse from different partisan affiliations, different ideological affiliations, to even across the world, different countries and different dynamics around your partnership in America versus in China or Japan or in London or what the UK, whatever it might be. Yeah. It's funny because you still have the strength of your personal convictions, but now the institution that you're working with is quite diverse and you're navigating some of the weirdness and complexity there. And yeah, it's a very different just day-to-day mouthfeel overall. So yeah, all to say, very much resonates. Yeah. Yeah. What are the misconceptions that people have about working in the private sector?

One that I didn't mention before is that it is leaving government to a private sector job means you're going to have a substantially less demanding job. And not to project that necessarily on anyone, I know I anticipated that when I left the White House. I thought, okay, this is going to be a major step down. And I don't want to compare my first few years at Global Strategy Group to working in the White House. The White House was more intense, but it was not a big step down as I had hoped. There is a lot of intensity no matter where you work in doing a good job in delivering for whatever that enterprise is. And we feel that in government, certainly. And it's just not exclusive to government. It is very much a part of my day-to-day here at Global Strategy Group.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And yeah, I think that's especially for folks who've been on the campaign trail, they're like, oh gosh, like I need to have a job where I can put my laptop down on Friday at 5:00 and then pick up again Monday at 9:00 AM. And you join a company and sometimes that's the case. And then other times where actually it's moving at just as high, fast of a velocity and actually even more intense in some ways. Yeah, so definitely, uh, yeah, that's definitely super interesting.

The other thing I would add, the other thing I would just real quick also, the private sector has a lot of beyond expertise, which I mentioned before, it's also able to bring sometimes more resources to bear. To bear, meaning more tactics to bear. So if you're a communications professional, there are things that you can bring as part of a modern campaign that, that maybe you can't bring to bear if you're working at HHS or the Department of Energy today. That's nice. That is nice. And the expertise that they have, it exists all over the country. You can bring people who've been working in industry for decades. And in the same way that you might turn to an expert at the Department of Interior who's been there for 20 years. You might learn a lot from talking with somebody who has been overseeing a project or a division somewhere else in the country for 20 years. There's a lot of knowledge to be gained across the board.

Yeah, 100%. So I want to switch gears now. We've spent some time talking about the career transitions, navigating public and private sector, what are some of the learnings. It's also January 16th. 16th, and we are just a few days away from a big presidential transition and very fascinating moment in American history. And I think to that end, I want to ask— start by picking your brain about a number of the dynamics that are at play. One of the things that I think there's been a lot of media coverage on is who is joining the Trump administration in 2025. A lot of tech leaders and Silicon Valley leaders, for example, Elon Musk and so on, looking at starting or joining various parts of the administration. Might have at hand in dictating policy. Is this an inflection point on the relationship between Washington and the broader business community and Silicon Valley? How are you seeing the dynamic looking at the next 6 months, 12 months?

Yeah, I do think it's— it feels different from ever before. And obviously my politics. So as we've just discussed here, the incoming White House is not the one that I was hoping for. It does feel like right now that I think the business community is responding in a new and different way to President Trump than any president of either party ever. I have a feeling that it's not going to last forever. There's no doubt in my mind that this White House and this congressional leadership are going to run into challenges like all of them before that they're not anticipating today that will impact how the business community relates. I also think right now the business community, at least some of the industries that you referenced, are over-indexing for the White House. I, I like to say, and I really believe this to be true, even as someone who loved working at the White House, the beating heart of this town is Congress. It, it really is. People are there for longer, and when things need to get done, that is where so much of the activity is happening. I think a strategy, like, I would not advise any company to over-index to the White House to the detriment of Congress or to one party to the detriment of the other. I really think that, of course, you have to be responsive to majorities. I mean, that, that's reality in our business. But there's a way of doing that to make sure that both parties on a durable basis will view you as a credible, sincere, authentic voice when you're talking about servicing not only your business, but also your employees and the communities in which you sit. Mm-hmm.

You have such an interesting vantage point. You're in conversations every week with leaders in business and government in so many ways. I'm curious, especially for your clients, not asking about any specific client, but just clients in general. In industry, what are the things that they are most optimistic about looking at a Trump admin? And what are the things that they're like, oh, this is going to be quite fascinating or interesting or helpful for us? And where are the places where they're just like, oh man, I have a lot of heartburn about this and I'm really worried in some way, shape, or form?

Yeah. Whenever there is unity between— in terms of the political unity of one party holds Congress and the White House, you know that real laws are going to be made. And President Biden and a Democratic Congress proved that in the first 2 years of the Biden administration, even though they had extraordinarily narrow majorities, they passed historic legislative accomplishments. Now it holds true for Trump and the Republican majorities. So we know that real laws are going to be made. And top of the list is the reauthorization of the Tax Cut and Jobs Act. There are pretty much every industry is affected by that bill and not just the corporate rate, but many, an infinite almost number of provisions within that. So that's something that they are absolutely being attentive to. Things that they are concerned about, as I'm sure you've read, tariffs and impact on prices, supply chain. And the third thing I would throw out is the umbrella of chaos. Having a sense of normalcy in Washington is actually helpful for economic prosperity. For relationships with allies and for just functioning Congress, for Congress to function without lots of chaos. We're going to be experiencing an elevated period of chaos.

Almost certainly. So for the PR pros, the communications pros, the public affairs pros that are in the room right now, they're working with clients, they're working with their organizations to navigate this. There's a lot of shifting sands in the media, and I mentioned TikTok earlier and that whole situation. There's, I guess, the feeling of chaos heading into the rest of this year and a new administration. What is the advice that you give to the professionals in the audience about how to navigate all of this? Where should they focus their time? What's based strong on your experience? What advice do you have for them?

Yeah, I'd give my advice in two categories. One would be during this period of time, let's make sure that we go back to what are our organization's core values. Who is it that we say we are? And how are we proving that we are who we say we are day in and day out? And if we're feeling political pressure to do or say something that's different than before, how does that relate to our values? Is it consistent with what we've said in the past, or is it a departure? And if it's a departure, you have to really slow down and resist the temptation not to say that companies can't evolve, and policies and points of view can't change. They can, but you don't want to risk a company's reputation or the head of a company's reputation for sincerity, authenticity, right? For a short-term political gain. So that's one category of my response. The other thing that I would, in terms of a, a more tactical approach of communications, I'm radically focused on what is it that we need to accomplish? And this might be an opportunity or a threat, right? But what is it that we need to accomplish? Who are the decision makers that are going to decide our fate? And what is it that they need to know, hear, think, feel in order to agree with us? That's a more tactical way of building a communications plan. But I am laser focused on that when talking, when we get to that level of tactical implementation with clients, laser focused on that so that we're not doing things that are either not contributing to that strategic goal or could even be setting us back, or they might just feel good. You know what I'm saying? Like activity. This was one of Rom's biggest thing. Rom would always distinguish between what he called splashing and swimming. Are we splashing or are we swimming? There's a lot of splashing in our business and there's a lot of like water droplets that are presented to clients as, hey, look at this great thing we did. And not all of that is actually progress.

Yeah. So to summarize, double down and focus on your core values as an organization. And then second, to be laser focused on what your goals are and your objectives are, swim in that direction. I like that metaphor. So. Great. Also, again, for the audience members, feel free to drop your questions in the Zoom Q&A. Jim, just, we're coming up on time here, so I want to wrap up with what we call the Derek lightning round. So at Clipbook, and if you're on this call, you might have heard this in the past, but at Clipbook, we like to tell the story that's probably familiar to many, which is that every communications team, PR team, public affairs team has some poor 22-year-old intern or associate named Derek. And at Clipbook, we worship Derek in many ways because he's the poor soul, the poor recent grad who gets stuck with a lot of the day-to-day research, daily monitoring that supports the work of the communications team or the government affairs team, whatever that might be. And we at Clipbook exist and our product exists in part to support Derek, make his life easier. So for this next set of questions, we'll go through this in rapid speed. We're going to channel 22-year-old Derek, our proverbial intern or associate. And just fire them away. So are you ready?

I'm ready.

All right. First, what's the most memorable moment you had in the White House?

There were a lot. One, after we passed healthcare, we rushed back to the White House and we did a champagne toast with the president on the Truman Balcony, which was very special. But I think I'm going to— one that I really loved was when the president signed the bill to repeal the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. It was an event that we did over at the auditorium at the Department of the Interior, and the room was filled with advocates and people who had served in the military, lots of representatives from the gay and lesbian community. And the moment we sang the national anthem before the signing, that room was erupting in emotion and patriotism, and it was— Fantastic. So I think I would put those two.

Wow. That's amazing. I'm both friends. I love that answer. And yes, I haven't had the pleasure of sipping champagne on the Truman balcony, but hopefully one day.

Very special.

Yeah. So between the Obama administration, the White House, and at GSG now, Jim, who does the lunch orders better? Where do you get the best meal?

Okay. It's hard to compete with the White House. That dining room is very special. And even when you're taking out from the window. I got to give it to the White House. However, Global Strategy Group has great snacks for anyone who wants to come visit. Our kitchen has great snacks.

I can attest to that. I remember I visited you in the office and you've got the coffee set and the whole thing. It's quite nice. Yeah, that's great. Okay. Between government, public sector, or private sector, who has the better excuse for being late to meetings?

I don't think it matters. Private or public sector, I think the best excuses rely on the quality of the name check. So if you come into the room, I was just on the phone with Senator— okay, that's, those are the best excuses in this town.

Yeah, sorry, my toast with the president was running a couple minutes over, so hope you don't mind.

He insisted on a second glass.

I'm sorry. Yeah. What unconventional advice might you give to somebody applying to a job at GSG or one of your peer firms?

Yeah, I would say remember how much they're interviewing you as a colleague, meaning the person who they're gonna be in the office with, and as a teammate. All of us go into interviews thinking, I need to prove that I am not just capable of what they need me to do, but I'm gonna far exceed them on every metric. And of course, that needs to be done. But Every person is also interviewing somebody for what kind of colleague are they going to be? Are they a good person to be around? Are they going to have my back? Are they going to throw in when times are tough? Those are the types of things that you'll want to communicate also, because just being the greatest athlete doesn't make you the best teammate or the one that's most likely to contribute to the championship.

Yeah, 100%. It's amazing how much, uh, hiring decisions, so much of it is just, do I like this person and am I going to make a bet on them? And do I see myself working with them the next 5 years, 10 years, whatever it is. Yeah. Resonates. This one you might not like, Jim, but I'm going to ask it anyways. What is the cringiest moment you've had with a public leader in your career?

Okay. I'll tell a fun, a nice story. When I was Rosa DeLauro's press secretary, this was like early in my tenure. We did a press conference out on the House Triangle. The weather was nice and I was the only staffer with her. So we go out and it's just about time for her to take the podium and she's got her binder and her notes and she's got a really big purse. And, you know, she's gathering herself. She hands me the purse. I'm holding it under my arm. She kind of steps back and she looks at me and she goes, why don't you keep that at your feet? Just don't let anybody take it. And I would've stood there holding the purse, but she just, she looked at me and was like, you know what? I'm not gonna make this kid hold my purse. And her empathy really jumped out at me at that moment. And I'm pleased to say nobody stole the purse. It could have been a cringy moment and it wasn't. So I probably dodged your question a little bit.

I was expecting you to say that you lost the purse and that with that sparked some CIA review of state secrets that got lost or something like that. But that's good. It sounds like she was pretty empathetic. That's great. So this is actually pretty close to the story you just told, but I'll ask in a different way. What's the most intern-y thing you've done in your career, even when you weren't an intern anymore?

Oh my gosh. Okay. I'll tell an abbreviated story, but it's in a category that I like to call workplace fuck-ups. And this was my first job in the Senate Minority Leadership Committee. Long story short, it was my job to set up an 800 number that was going to be announced by Senator Daschle. And the day before the press conference, it was unclear whether it was going to be phone number A or phone number B. And as the person working with the phone company, they couldn't give me clarity. It would just be one of those two. I didn't tell the boss. I just gave them phone number A. They went with the press conference and announced it. And you can see the ending here. It was going to be phone number B. My immediate boss showed such grace after she got over being furious with me, showed such grace and basically said, You did the one thing you could not do, which is you didn't tell us that there was a problem. If you just told us there was a problem, we could have postponed the press conference. There are a million things we could have done, but don't hold in bad news just because you want to do a good job. And I didn't get fired, but that is the most interny thing I've ever done. And thankfully I had a boss who was so gracious about it.

Yeah. At least the number didn't redirect to a Domino's Pizza line or something like that, which I guess some poor woman in Delaware.

Some poor woman in Delaware.

Yeah, that's actually funny. Oh gosh. Listen, we're right at time here. So Jim, thank you so much for joining us. This was such a treat. And audience members, thank you for joining us as well. Before we run, I have two quick final plugs. First, if you're on this call, if you're part of a media team, a public affairs team, or in comms or public affairs, our team at Clipbook would love to meet you if we haven't already. We're an AI research and analysis platform for you, and we automate desk research all that terrible work that poor Derek has to do every morning with a high degree of comprehensiveness and precision. So reach out anytime at, at clipbook.io, email me directly, adam@clipbook.io. We'd love to connect. Second is Jim is an expert in this space in 100 different ways. I do want to mention his podcast Staffer is really fantastic. They have some of the best guests in government and politics in various ways. So definitely check it out. We'll send an email after this with some of the info there as as well. A new episode every week, available on all streaming platforms. Jim, again, thanks so much for joining us.

My pleasure, Adam. Thank you for having me.

All right, thank you all. Take care.