B2B Training Solutions leveraging Generative AI in the Healthcare Industry with Avi Singer

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10X ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and today I am excited to welcome our guest. I'm gonna read his bio here so I get it right. Avi Singer is the founder and CEO of ShowedMe. They're an online compliance training company focused on healthcare. So over the past 3 years, ShowedMe has helped train over 100,000 different caregivers, 150,000 different employees across more than 800 organizations. And they've grown to become one of the largest providers of home care training in the state of New York. Prior to ShowedMe, Avi was Vice President of People at Undertone, which was named one of the best places to work 5 years in a row by Crain's Magazine. He's also held human resources, learning, and organizational development positions at places like Indeed, as well as DoubleClick, Google, and even the Blue Man Group in Las Vegas. So Ari, thanks so much for coming. Welcome.

Mark, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you inviting me on the show.

Absolutely. So that, that's a really, you know, large number of volume of trainings that you've executed. Surely you haven't done all those by yourself. Tell us a little bit about what you do there at ShowedMe.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, I started out my career in human resources and specifically learning and development and love that space, love onboarding new hires, getting them up to speed, training them, seeing their careers grow. When I realized I was kind of done with, you know, being within HR within the tech space, I went out and started my own learning management platform called ShowedMe. Initially, we were focused on peer-to-peer learning, but this opportunity sort of dropped into our laps where we discovered that within the post-acute healthcare space, there were some real challenges and real struggles getting employees properly trained. And I started looking at that industry and again, as a tech founder, you know, there's some things that you're looking for that just, it checked all the boxes, you know, annual recurring revenue and basic things like that. High level of dissatisfaction with most of the software in the post-acute space that people were looking for good software. And then there's like, you know, real training need, you know, people in the compliance space have to be trained. It has to happen every year and has to get done and they needed help. And we pivoted in 2017, we pivoted into online training for post-acute for healthcare. Currently work with lots of different verticals like home care, home health, skilled nursing, ABA, lots of different markets. And the organization has grown with that. So we've grown from initially being a tech company building this amazing platform and this great service provider to now also including things like content development, course development. We've got an extensive course library that covers all the needs and things like that. So it's not really thought of as an exciting space when you think about like, you know, HIPAA and OSHA and things like that. But we think it is. We love it. The organization's now over 40 employees, completely remote across the United States and overseas. And we're excited, we're excited about what we get to do every single day. We're excited about the success and the help that we provide with our clients. And we're excited because they give us great feedback about how it's working for them.

That's awesome. That's great. So I think maybe it's in The Lean Startup or one of the books around kind of agile development, they talk about that, you know, sort of most successful companies have had to pivot at least once in order to really find that that niche. And it's interesting to think about, you know, you had a business that was, you know, going in a direction, you were able to sort of perceive changes in the marketplace and recognize an opportunity and then pivot. And so I've oftentimes seen companies kind of struggle with letting go of what they were doing and then fully embracing the new opportunity that they've identified. Talk to us a little bit about how you kind of did that and especially from the standpoint of like, I'm sure it changed the, you know, ideal customer and the sort of the persona of that. And so then obviously the way that you position yourself and the sort of differentiators that you bring to market talking about that, how did you successfully make that transition without sort of having leftover You know, artifacts that were more a function of how the company used to be or what you're used to, what used to be your function versus the new, like, talk to us about that.

Yeah, it certainly isn't easy. You know, I think any CEO or even, you know, any founder will tell you it's your baby, right? So, you know, trying to turn your baby that's maybe a righty into a lefty, you know, or something like that, you know, it's not easy. It's not easy to let go of, again, your dreams and your aspirations and pick up something else. I think one thing that does make it a little bit easier is understanding that if you really wanna build a real business and a real company, I think you have to really think about, is what I'm building nice to have or is it a need to have? The ideal place you wanna be is in the need to have space. And I think what we realized was as much as we can try to convince yourself that the platform we had built was need to have, it really wasn't. It was nice to have. And when given the opportunity to be in compliance, and even though, again, compliance is not nearly as cool and exciting as some of the other things we're doing, but if you, like, you know, going back to what I was saying before, but if you really want to be here for the long run and you want, you know, lots of clients and lots of customers and lots of growth, you need to do it. So that made it easier for me. It made it easier for me to make the transition and even talk to our company, you know, people who had invested, you know, hours and hours and years of their lives in building a platform to pivot and switch by saying, hey, you know, do we wanna be the company we dreamed about being or do you wanna be a really successful company?

Yeah.

And if we wanna be a real successful company and feel good about ourselves and have happy customers and recurring clients and things like that, like we need to pivot into this need-to-have space and the opportunity is there. And I will say that, you know, there was overwhelming support internally. You know, people were willing and to your point about, you know, what happens to the platform and all these cool things you built, they were willing to do that. They were, and I was so appreciative and still am appreciative that they were willing to take pieces they had built that were, amazing and cool and all these things and say, you know what, I'm willing to put that in the background. I'm willing to move that away because I need to build something, you know, quizzes, which is something in the compliance space as opposed to something cool around, you know, video chat and things like that that we had built before. So not easy, but again, I think if your reasons are good and you can articulate it well to your employees and get their support, you can make it happen.

That's such a great point about the Moving from a nice to have versus a need to have. I was reading some statistics the other day that, you know, for, you know, B2B services and even sort of technology underpinned services, the, your biggest competitor is nothing because something like 70% of the time when they say no to you, it's not because they chose a competitor. It's because they either did a satisfying solution internally, like they kind of figured out what they could do themselves or they did nothing and sort of resolved to the status quo. So really creating a solution that lives, you know, where they've got a burning platform they have to jump off of is really sort of key to success. So good on you for recognizing that. And I also think it's a great comment about, you know, your dreams have to evolve.

Yeah.

And it's funny, like this microphone is sort of a vestige of my past life. I was a musician and oftentimes, you know, people that I'll meet will be like, you ever miss it or, you know, you feel like you gave up your dream? I'm like, no, my dreams evolved. And as I grew up, I found I was just as excited about marketing bands as I was playing in them. And then it turned out it was really the marketing that was the pull the whole time. So, yeah. It's kind of interesting how those evolve. Thinking about companies and, you know, sort of obviously you had a lot of forethought and sort of self-awareness to recognize that you needed to make this switch. And you were, you and I were talking a little bit before about sort of the importance of really having sort of disciplined planning and forecasting. One of the things that we, a statistic we say a lot is Harvard Business Review says that A company with a marketing plan has 4 times the success of one without, all other things being equal. Like just taking the time to write it down can literally quadruple your success rate. You were talking a little bit about the importance of focusing on kind of the unit economics. Talk to us a little bit about that and how you, you thought about that through the lens of your business.

Yeah, you know, I grew up in the tech space and I think people always get excited about, you know, money that's being raised. And that was for many years a proxy of, you know, success. Oh, they're a successful company. They raised $100 million, they raised $500 million. And, you know, I was very fortunate to have mentors who guided me a little bit differently and they said, you know, build a fundamentally sound business, you know, and don't focus on raising money. And just as an aside, I think one of the nice things about not getting sort of caught up in raising money as a founder is you get to spend time on your business as opposed to being a fundraiser, which many tech founders end up being, you know, and I get to focus on my business. But that's because I, you know, I was again mentored and coached to think about that, hey, you know, build a fundamentally sound business, understand, you know, what are people willing to pay for your product, what's the market opportunity for your product, and therefore what can you afford to build and expand and, you know, think about, you know, where you're gonna go with this based on that, right? So be realistic about how much money can we earn year 1, year 2, year 3, and then build your business that way. And I think what that saves you from is sort of sometimes perceived success, right? So, you know, I spent $10, I earned $1, and I think that's successful because I earned $1, right? And that's what a lot of founders unfortunately go through. And then all of a sudden one day that money dries up and like, we can't run this business anymore. We built a business that costs $10 to run and now we're getting zero or something like that. So I think number one, you know, it's easier to see what's real, what's true in terms of success. You know, it's easier to see and, you know, is this really fundamentally sound business that can grow and can we build off of it? It makes you also a little bit hungrier and knowing that, you know, kind of old school, you gotta, you know, you can only eat what you hunt and kill. So, you know, it makes a little bit hungrier in that sense and you don't get this sort of false, again, this sort of false confidence that, you know, I don't have to necessarily hunt that much because I've got this money in the bank, I've got money we've raised. And again, you know, aside from the mentoring and coaching, I think, you know, I'm fortunate that we, I've always had employees. that kind of thought that way as well. So I never felt pressure from my employees like, when are we raising money and what kind of round can we raise and what's the valuation of the business or things like that? You know, I think they've always looked at it as, hey, we're building a good business. We've got, you know, great recurring customers, great logo retention rates and things like that. And that's really the kind of business we want to be part of.

Well, and you look especially prescient. You know, it's now May of 2024. You know, We had what, 20 years of essentially free money in the marketplace. So many people built their businesses based on the premise that, well, there'll always be extra money that I can bring in. I don't have to necessarily be profitable for any foreseeable horizon, whereas today that just doesn't work. And so the fact that you sort of built your business with that certainly is much better aligned to the dynamics in the marketplace today. When we were chatting earlier, you made such an interesting comment that I have to sort of share with the audience, which is about, you know, when, when people are buying a house or even let's say, you know, they're looking to get a loan to invest in expanding their house, they don't get that loan to expand their house and then sell back the one room that they added on back to the bank, which is fundamentally what you're doing when you're giving up equity in your business. And I thought that was such an interesting analogy and sort of a visual that people actually thought about. Yeah, I would never do that. Like, why would you do that with your business?

Yeah, it's a hard mind shift. You know, again, people get it, you know, like you said, 20 years and then lots of fundraising and all these unicorns and all that. And people always like figure that's a proxy, right? A proxy for success is your A round and your B round and your C round and all that. But yeah, I mean, again, I, you know, fortunately had those mentors and who would tell me like, but that's you know, to your point, right? You're selling a piece of your business in order to get that. And, you know, to the analogy you just mentioned before, yeah, it's like you're paying your mortgage by selling off pieces of your upstairs and your bedrooms and attic and things like that in order to meet your mortgage. Maybe think about it a little bit differently. Maybe think, hey, maybe this isn't quite the right thing for me if I need to do that. Because inevitably what will happen is you'll, you know, you'll get to that point where you can't raise anymore or now we're seeing, you know, down rounds and things like that and it really disrupts your business and it makes it unpleasant for employees and you have layoffs and all those kinds of things. And, you know, again, I would I would love to be able to hopefully, you know, avoid those things forever, you know, just by being a little bit more disciplined about, again, you know, what kind of money we're making and what kind of money we're spending and how do we do that in a way that's controlled and but still grow, right? I mean, that bottom line is you still want to grow. So you don't want to get, you know, stagnant over there, but there are other ways of doing it for sure.

Yeah. Well, and so that brings us to a really interesting point around, you know, when you are bootstrapping, And I've worked with, you know, plenty of clients and companies that, you know, were in that sort of position. They create some tension from the things that you want to do. If you don't have that, you know, sort of that VC fund of the open checkbook, you can kind of do everything at once. You kind of need a way to prioritize. And, you know, oftentimes we see the friction between, well, marketing wants to do this and they think it's gonna generate all these leads, but sales really wants to do this because they think it's gonna generate more revenue and, you know, where do they find that alignment? What have you seen be some successful strategies for creating alignment and diffusing the tension that exists when companies are sort of bootstrapping and having to focus on profitability?

Yeah, it's a great question. I think you mentioned before that companies with a marketing plan are 4 times as successful as the ones without. And I would I'd probably extend that to other parts of the business as well, right? You know, product plan, you know, tech plan in our world of building out, you know, courses and content, you know, course development plan. And it's another filter that you need to put all these plans through and say, okay, but what are we gonna get out of that? You know, when you've got that money in the bank and you're like, eh, it's just a risk we're taking, let's see what happens. Hopefully it'll work out. You have that capacity. When you don't have it, you really have to ask yourself, you know, if I develop this course, what's my ROI on that course gonna be, right? So yeah, it's a nice course to develop, you know, and it seems like a nice idea. Maybe we should have it, maybe we shouldn't. You know, should we go to this conference, right? And, you know, not just because it has a big name, but like literally, what's the ROI on that conference? What's the ROI on building things? You know, we're getting customer requests. And what's interesting about that is, you know, when, when you, when you're sort of in that world of, of really thinking things through about what's the return on investment, is this a good idea, should we pursue it? You can even discuss that with your clients. You know, they'll come to you and they'll say, hey, you know, you guys should do XYZ. But if they're mature and, and, and you're mature and you've sort of expressed that to them, you can sit down and say, hey, it really is a good idea. However, we just don't think there's gonna be an opportunity for us to make money off of it. So again, you know, kind of like we were talking before, it falls in the nice-to-have category versus need-to-have category. Same thing with a course. They might say it would be great for you to have, you know, this course in your library. We think it would be great. And we could say, It is a good course to have. We just don't think there's a market demand for it. And again, you're, you know, when they're seeing that you're consistent on that and you're not just trying to like push them off or avoid it, but you're consistent in terms of your mindset and how you think about things, they'll take it, you know, they'll take it that way. And we see the same thing with employees, you know, when employees realize that, again, you're not trying to be cheap, right? You're not trying to not spend money, but you treat every dollar with value. They start getting creative. You know, I mentioned to you as we were, you know, talking before, you know, we've had employees come to us and say, hey, you know, I took a look at our AWS costs and they seem to be going through the roof. You know, you mind if I take a look at it and see if I could bring them down? You know, our company uses a lot of text messaging to communicate with our users. Employees will take a look at that and say, hey, I see our SMS costs are going up. You know, maybe I could take a look at that and see if there's something creative we can do to lower our costs in different places. So, you know, they start getting and seeing it as a challenge as well. Like, hey, how can I be creative? You know, how can I think more about, you know, unit economics and costs and things like that so that I can continue on this path that we've set forth here. Like, how can we build a good, fundamentally sound, profitable business? Yeah.

So, yeah, yeah, that net present value calculation that we all learned in school, it's funny, like, it's applicable so many places and it's such a valuable tool to think about. If I could spend this dollar today, I got 5 places I could spend it. What's the payback schedule? What's the possible return? What's the likelihood of success? We actually do that, you know, in marketing and sales. There's, you know, oftentimes you are sort of making a bet in marketing because you're gonna make an investment today and hope that it pays off. But oftentimes we'll see people, you know, kind of just sort of say, well, here's what the up-end potential could be. And I'm like, well, what's the likelihood? What's the probability?

Yeah.

of that up-end potential versus maybe we have a narrower band of probability of what's like most likely to happen. It's also funny too, though, and a lot of people talk about this from— there's a great book called Thinking in Bets. I don't know if you've read it, but it's a good read I'd recommend. But they talk about, you know, oftentimes companies fail to do the thing that they should do because of a really deep downside potential, but the probability of it's minuscule.

Yeah.

And so they'll never take a risk on something that could have, and in fact, the probability of at least a good outcome is quite high and a great outcome is actually reasonably high, but a very small chance of, you know, devastating risk and they'll never take those risks, which, you know, like what you did with pivoting, You know, obviously, you know, represented a lot of risk, but a lot more upside potential.

Yeah, it's just, you know, I agree with both of those. I think, you know, you have to, again, if you're in technology and you wanna stay ahead of the curve, you're definitely gonna have to take some risks. You know, again, you know, like everyone's talking about AI right now and it was actually, it was really great. I was at a conference a while back and they had different case studies get up and one of the best case studies was a company who had pursued AI and it didn't work and they just said, but we tried it, right? So that was, you know, and I thought that was so refreshingly honest, you know, and sort of like they said, hey, We thought it would do something. We thought it would be helpful. We thought we could implement it. We did it for 6 months. We rolled it out. Customers didn't see the value in it, and that's it. So yeah, you know, I think if you can be honest, then I agree with you. You know, you can make those bets and, you know, try not to get stuck there and pile on and, you know, invest more and put more money behind it. But just, you know, be honest. So you can do that. And again, it's the same discipline in terms of thinking about, you know, okay, we know we're gonna do well here. So let's do that. So we've had situations where at times we thought about what are other areas of compliance outside of healthcare that we should maybe look at and address? Should we get into the construction industry? Should we get into— and there were times where we kind of dipped our toe and said, hey, we could do this, we could do this really well. And then we have to ask ourselves, yeah, but can we focus on it? Can we put enough attention on it? If we're focused on healthcare, can we also be focused on construction or something else? Sorry, excuse me. And again, you just have to have those honest moments and say, like, if our goal is that whatever we're doing, we're doing it 100%, we're doing it in a way where we feel like we're gonna, you know, really achieve something unique here. Let's continue to focus on that. Let's not get distracted by, you know, some of these other things. So again, I'm fortunate we've got, you know, employees at our organization who are not afraid to give feedback or give their thoughts and ideas. We're a pretty flat organization. And, you know, I can always run these things by others and say, hey, you know, we have this opportunity. What do you think? Should we go after it? Should we not? You know, and that's always refreshing to have.

That's a good discipline. You know, I have a common conversation with folks about, you know, strategy is what you choose not to do as much as what you choose to do. And very often, especially when companies are, you know, early stage, they're like, well, we want to serve everyone. We want the largest possible total addressable market. When in fact you can't do that well. And so it's by picking a specific industry as you've focused on healthcare that you really start to carve out your own niche and become differentiated in a way that no one else can if they aren't really focused on that individual industry.

Absolutely.

That's really interesting. So tell us, you know, what's something that you're excited about that's on the horizon for ShowedMe?

Things that I'm excited about specifically. That's a good question. I think, you know, again, we are in the compliance space, which is sort of, again, you know, the sort of, you know, boring stuff. However, you know, again, AI is there. I'll give you some examples of— and we're excited about AI and some of the things they'll do. And hopefully none of our competitors are going to watch this podcast. I think everyone else should watch this podcast. So we have a massive audience, but none of our direct competitors should watch this because— So I'll give you an example of just, you know, so again, you know, I went to this— I've gone to certain conferences and I think that message I mentioned before is, you know, you have to be thinking about AI and it may not be something you need to do and pursue. But you have to be thinking about it because, you know, the worst case scenario is someone else in your industry is thinking about it. They just like, you know, fly right by you because they have it. One area we've seen some great success there, and we're very excited about this, is around the ability to produce really interesting content, right? So if you think about sort of the old school, you know, creating a course, let's say you have to take an anti-harassment course or, you know, some kind of corporate compliance course, you know, It's the federal government requires it, the state requires it. You go read the regulations, someone puts together a PowerPoint, they do some voiceover, and that's the course.

Yeah.

I think what's happening now in the AI space is number one, and that's expensive also. It takes time. You've gotta write a script and you've gotta, you know, however you're putting it together, whether it's actors or whatever it is, it's just, it's a timely, costly thing. With AI now, there's so many things you can do. Number one, you can have AI actually review regulatory requirements for you. Right? And come back and say, hey, this is what we believe the training requirements are, you know, to cover this topic. So just interesting, like, just that alone just seems like really fascinating for us. We can get AI to produce scripts at a cost and pace that's maybe at 20% of the cost before. AI is now getting into even, you know, into film creation and movie creation and, you know, beyond even animation.

Wow.

Voiceover, translation work. We're seeing, you know, translation work and things like that. We've seen the cost of producing really good, strong content go from, you know, sometimes $8,000 to $10,000 a course down to like $2,000 to $3,000 a course. And that's just the first thing. The first thing we look at AI for is like save us money, right?

Right.

The next thing we kind of look at is what if there was a world where people didn't find content to be boring? Like you didn't get this email from HR saying sit through this anti-harassment training or sit through this, through this, you know, corporate compliance training. Like what would that look like? And what we think about now is, you know, what if on its own the content can actually address you specifically? So what if based on the basic information they have about you, you know, we could address you by name. We could talk to you based on your gender identity. We could talk about you based on the state that you live in or the kind of work that you do or other things we know about you. So now it seems like, oh, wow, someone's actually talking to me versus me sitting through this sort of random course that's just like your generic course across the board. There's real some, really some interesting ways of being able to customize content. And we're hoping to do that. So really hoping to shift from, you know, sort of boring content that's just off the shelf, you know, sort of generic to where it really feels like, hey, this was created for me based on my role, you know, my position, my place, my experience, some of my own other personal characteristics. And I think that's one. And then the other area that we think is gonna be incredible is, you know, again, we're in healthcare and, you know, right now we're, you know, we're happy we do this. We help provide our clients with a great service, check the box, make sure that, you know, you're doing all the things you're supposed to be doing. But we think we have an opportunity to improve care. If we can start to extract information from systems that will tell us what are some of the biggest issues happening in this facility. Oh, there are 4 cases of sepsis, which is an infection type of issue. And therefore we can start to, in real time, deliver training to start addressing some of those issues. We're having some issues in food service. And again, I don't know if your audience is gonna be particularly interested in those things, but these are things that are interesting for us when you think about leveraging some of the new tools out there to not only customize content and make it intriguing and interesting for audiences out there, but also to be able to do just-in-time training, right? Hit people at that most important point of care so that, yes, they're checking their box and making sure the state says we're happy with the training you're doing. We're also making sure that that training that they're doing is not only going to check the box with the state, but it's also going to help them improve care with their clients. So again, we think there's lots of exciting opportunities, particularly in the healthcare space. You know, to address a lot of those things. And I think in other industries as well, when it comes to compliance, rather than, again, generic compliance, I think we can, you know, read systems, look at systems, get data from systems that will tell us, hey, don't just do the generic training. There's something specific you want to be addressing. If your people are sitting at a computer anyway going through training, there's some specific things you want to be addressing. So those are the things that we're looking at right now that we think are interesting in the compliance and training space. And yeah, really focused on it.

That's very interesting. The generative AI stuff, really good applications like that, like data that's, you know, sort of applicable and relevant to the business and using that to shape and inform what's happening. Those are gonna be the real transformative stories. The, well, it saved me time writing a brief, that's not that exciting. But Instead, the idea of it digested 100 pages of, you know, legal documentation in 5 minutes.

Yeah.

That's where you really start to see some really interesting innovation taking place.

Yeah. And also like, and read the regulation and try to make it creative, right? So again, you know, that's the kind of sort of prompting as you learn about prompting, you know, like prompting you can do is like, you know, don't just read this back to me. Like, you know, how is this gonna be engaging material even though it comes across as sort of standard, you know, boring material?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So for our listeners that maybe they're in healthcare, maybe they need the type of services you provide. If they were in a room with you and 3 other people, what's different about ShowMe? Why would they work with you?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, the reason we got into this space was, you know, the message we were getting from people who are already in healthcare and the providers that they were working with at the time was, you know, hey, They're giving us technology, they're giving us a content library, but it's all on us. And we have way too much, way too many things to do. We have too much work already on our plate. Human resources is busy with staffing and retention. Compliance is busy with dealing with state regulations and requirements. Like, we don't have time to do this. And I said, you know what, is this something that we potentially could take on for our clients? Like, imagine if not only we had the platform and the content library, but imagine we could do this for them. Where we can go to them and say, hey, instead of us giving you this platform and giving this content library, you give us your employees and we will make sure that everyone takes all the required training they need to on an annual basis. And, and that's really what we articulate whenever we're talking to prospects or clients and customers and say, how are you different than your competitors? And I say, what did our competitors offer you? And they say, well, they offered us technology and they offered us a library. I said, well, that's not what I'm offering you. I'm offering you compliant employees and I will take care of all that for you. And we've been able to do that at scale, right? And that's, I think, the unique nature of our business. You know, people come to us and say, but I own 50 facilities across 6 states, you know, can you do that? And I said, yeah, we can do that. And, or I have 10,000 employees in 3 states, you know, are you able to get to all of them? I'm like, yeah, yeah, we figured out how to scale that. So that's our big differentiator. Again, I think, you know, many of our competitors will have, you know, decent technology or they have good content libraries. But I think in today's day and age, especially in the post-acute healthcare space that we're in, People are looking for that extra hand, extra help, and we've been able to help them, you know, really, you know, manage all their compliance requirements and stay, you know, stay within the regulatory requirements that they have without a lot of work on their part.

That's great, Avi. This has been such a great conversation. I could— we could chat all day, but I'm sure you got to get on and, you know, build some more courses and help some more people get compliant. For folks that want to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch?

Yeah, the easiest way is on our website, www.showd.me. That's S-H-O-W-D dot me. And that's the easiest way to get in touch with us. I mean, they can always reach out to me personally. I respond to everybody. I love talking to, you know, clients, you know, prospects. Mine is easy, avi@showd.me, which is S-H-O-W-D dot me. And yeah, any questions they have, like I said, we're always interested in the conversation and, you know, opening people's eyes up to just a different way of handling these things.

Awesome. Thanks again, Avi. Really appreciate you joining us today.

Thanks so much for having me, Mark. It's been great.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform, and share to others who will find it useful. Do you If you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story, send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation.