Building Sales Foundations and Driving Sustainable Growth in AI and Exit Planning with Susan Cashion

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10x ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, Today, I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Susan, or Susie Cashin. So I'm going to read Susie's bio to make sure I get this right. Susan is a fractional chief revenue officer recognized for leading company growth initiatives with expertise in sales team startups, growth stage companies, and those preparing for a successful exit. She works with small to mid-sized companies, typically between $3 and $65 million in revenue, across all industries with specialty in professional services, healthcare, manufacturing, and consumer goods. She does more than just consult. She actually does the work by implementing a proven sales operating and management system to drive sustainable revenue growth. Business owners she helps are oftentimes frustrated with flat or declining revenue. They might be upset about employee turnover or nervous about their future and their ability to grow sales, and she brings solutions to those problems. So, Susie, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Mark. So happy to be here today.

Yeah, I've been looking forward to this myself. So, before we dive into some of the topics that we've been chatting about, why don't you give our audience a little bit of background? Like, tell us your story. How did you get to where you are today?

Wow. Well, thank you for this opportunity. Well, I started my career right out of college, actually in sales. with a very large Fortune 100 company. I call them a world-class sales organization in the CPG world. And I spent about 10 years at that company. And, you know, their mindset was you're either up or out. And so they had the most amazing learning, training, learning and development that they offered. And so I started in Los Angeles with the largest sales rep territory, LA County and Palmdale, Lancaster. And I had the opportunity to get promoted like every 18 months. And so I went into an account management role and a DSM, district sales manager. So really, that is what kind of set the stage for my career in sales. And from there, the company was sold. I helped them through the acquisition from another larger CPG. company. And I was contacted by a recruiter who said, hey, we have a startup. You would be one of 4 leaders in the US and Canada that we'd like to establish a sales team. Would you be interested? And initially I said, no, I don't want to go from an A company to a C company.

Right.

I'll admit I really needed to, you know, have a little bit more humility.

Yeah.

I'm like, it's really kind of an unknown brand. And the recruiter was so excellent in that conversation. She's like, look at this differently. Look at this as an opportunity to kind of create a legacy and design a sales organization based on all of your experience. And so, my experience first 10 years with that world-class sales organization, CPG company, was like the best paid education you can ever have. So I translated all that experience into hiring and leading a sales organization. I spent 14 years at that company. It was so rewarding. Again, lots of growth opportunity. I held sales ops, sales management, actually sales myself. I was an account executive. And then we grew that company to about $850 million over a 14-year period. During that time, I had an opportunity to lead a turnaround with the economic decline in 2008, 2009.

Mm-hmm.

People weren't spending as much money. They didn't have as much disposable income. And so as such, we kind of had to pivot our strategy, and I had the opportunity to also lead those efforts. So I have had a great rewarding background, and I share all of that because that's really what brought me to where I'm at today. 8 years ago, I had a life-changing event. I had a car accident. That was a very humbling experience. And it forced me to do a lot of thinking about how I wanted to— what legacy I wanted to leave behind and who I wanted to co-author the rest of my professional career with. And it wasn't in corporate America. So I started Growthwise Consulting. And at first, I was all in consulting as an interim chief revenue officer, vice president of sales for a couple of of companies. And then a couple of years ago, I pivoted my strategy and decided I did— I no longer wanted to be full-time and just work with one client. And so my strategy now is working with small to mid-sized businesses and helping them to grow or lead turnaround initiatives and help them prepare for an exit. So that's what brought me to where I'm at today.

That's so interesting and such an interesting sort of path. It's always interesting to me to see how, you know, sort of people develop and how what happens tomorrow is, you know, oftentimes a function of what happened yesterday. And I bet it probably didn't seem as linear to you at the time as it looks now, huh?

Absolutely not. You know, it's funny because when you think about opportunities or people say, you know, what is the greatest thing about your career if you look back? And I really just say it's all the opportunities and my ability to show up and be ideal for that opportunity and then say yes.

Mm-hmm.

And it's been a very scary journey, but it's really helped me to pave the way with the level of experience and expertise that I can now bring with a very diverse background, handling so many different business challenges, whether it be a startup and growing the company, leading a turnaround, or helping a company to prepare for an exit.

Yeah. Well, so you've had all these really diverse experiences. Not only, you know, you've worked for the large corporate America, you've worked for startups now, and you're advising, you know, businesses of many different sizes across a number of different industries. I'm curious if you have seen something that I've observed sometimes that Oftentimes businesses hit a similar, you know, sort of ceiling, or I, you know, I call it the revenue roadblocks. And oftentimes I see like there's a block that happens at about $1 million, and some companies sort of like will bounce around that million mark for a while, and then they have a breakthrough to kind of about $5 million, and then they'll bounce around there for a while, and then they have another breakthrough to get to $10 million, and then there's one about $25 million, another about $50 million. Do you see that in companies that you work with?

Absolutely, 100%. And I think it's a normal growth trajectory for every company. And it's the milestones that you actually called out are also the same ones that I see. You know, I have had the opportunity to work with very fresh entrepreneurs where they're just ideation stage and they're like, you know, where do I go now? So helping them to develop that strategy. And I always say, have a very strong message. So you need to include marketing, but then find your first 10. 10 customers.

Yeah.

And then, you know, they bring in about $1 million, you know, to $2 million in revenue and it's all 100% sweat equity. And then they realize this is not sustainable because this is growing and, you know, there's only so many hours in the day, right? So, you know, and then somewhere around $5 million, I see that companies don't have the proper foundation. And when you're along that journey, you think about sales. So many people think about sales as actually sales. It's a byproduct of all the awesome things that you do, the product or service that you offer, your ability to manufacture it, etc., right? Speak to your audience. However, sales is actually a department. It's the revenue-generating department of your business. And it's really the most critical outside of your capability to deliver the service or function and/or product. And so, I always say, now is the time to build the foundation. So, you've built the first story on the house, but you don't have the basement. So, we're going to back it up and I'm going to come in and I am going to do a deep dive discovery under the hood. What are the elements that are missing? What do you have that needs optimized? And by building that framework and that foundation, which I call people, process, and performance metrics. It enables a duplicatable, repeatable sales process that if you were to step away from your business, it's documented and you could easily be able to articulate to somebody else that came in, be it a new salesperson or a sales leader, how success is defined in your business. Not only defined, but how do we achieve success? And so it's all about people, process, and those performance metrics. So that is, it's a proven process that I use where about 98% of the clients that we work with will see an average of 32% year-over-year growth in year 1 after implementing this sales operating and management system that I'm licensed through an organization called Sales Accelerator. Acceleration. They are the global leader in sales consultancy. So, yeah, that's basically what I do somewhere between $3 and $5 million. And then that gets the company back onto a growth trajectory.

Yeah.

And then they see a little bit later on in their growth cycle, the need to bring in a leadership team and department heads and so forth. So I'm sure you see that a lot with the clients that work with on the marketing side as well.

That's right. Yeah. And it's so funny to hear you talk about, you know, taking a step back and building that foundation because, you know, we have these sort of defined things that have to happen, you know, for you to break through that million-dollar mark or that $5 million mark or that $10 million mark. And so oftentimes companies will, you know, come to us and they're like, you know, we've been— we can't break through this layer. And it's almost always like, Well, have you done X? And they're like, we've been working on it. I'm like, well, that's why. Like, it's— you got to really solve those fundamental things in order to have those breakthroughs. So, it's interesting that you see the same thing. And I love your focus on process because so oftentimes people think of like sales as an event.

Yes.

But it really is a process that starts with the marketing piece and rolls into the nurturing of it. And then, as you sort of facilitate that change management, And a process also opens the door for sort of technology solutions. And there's a, you know, a big, you know, if you haven't, if you've been living under a rock, you know, AI is really making a big impact in lots of different places of business. But I'm curious, how are you seeing, you know, AI and automation and some of those technology tools impacting the sales processes that you're helping your clients to build?

Immensely. In fact, this is the hottest topic that I've been speaking on a lot lately. And one of the greatest concerns is, you know, is AI going to replace salespeople? And my answer is twofold.

Right.

One, if you have a very price-driven, transactional-type business model and methodology, perhaps it can. And it can through by way of the workflow I'm sure that you do in terms of inserting chatbots on websites. So it's automating that sales process for more transactional sales. But, you know, and we're dealing with a very well-informed buyer. I mean, I think 75% of the buying decision is made even before your first contact with a salesperson.

Right.

And why having salespeople in a more consultative sales model is so important is to be able to differentiate you from the other people in your space, develop that relationship and that trust because we all buy from people that we know, like, and trust and can depend on. And so, I would say in a more consultative relationship-type sales model, no, there will always be a need for salespeople. So, how it has really impacted and what I'm seeing in sales is that It's, you know, AI is utilized as a tool, a tool for productivity and automating processes in your own back office, lead generation. And so there's so many applications where AI plays a role. One of the areas obviously is just note-taking, you know, anytime you're, you know, in the field, Otter is a really great one. It's an application you can have on your phone. And you can record live face-to-face conversations you're having with customers and then automate that. It automatically sends it to your CRM and then sends it out to your contact. And then obviously in Zoom meetings and such. So another area is where it has really helped to automate the lead generation. So doing the research, right, about customers, your target audience known as your ICP, ideal client profile. And then creating lead lists and lead scoring, which you can talk every day, all day about this, right? Because this is much more— this is top of sales funnel. This is much more your lane. But for smaller companies that might have the sales reps doing that lead gen work, that's another area where AI has really taken over. And then automating your messages. You know, I create AI-generated sales playbooks, which is a very affordable option when you're thinking about building out a sales infrastructure and tying in sales strategy and process and messaging. You pull it together in a sales playbook. It's a very affordable option for business owners because you have AI to pull it all together for you instead of having to do it on your own. So those are just some of the ways that AI has really helped to transform sales.

Yeah, I love your, you know, sort of question, like, will AI replace salespeople? And like, what I always tell people, really sort of any role, that like, AI probably won't replace you, but someone that's using AI will. And so that could be you. Like, you can figure out how to use it for your role, or you might lose your job because someone else will figure out how to, you know, make it work better. And the thing that I always tell people, you know, they'll ask like, how should I be using AI? And the answer is always start by building a process. And you talked about that as, you know, sort of fundamental in what you do with those performance metrics that you can then sort of measure. Well, how does— how well is the process working? Can we improve it? That's when you then find the data or the technology, whether it's AI or automation or any one of a number of things that makes that process work better. and impacts those performance metrics. And that's the, you know, that's a much better approach than going out and, you know, finding a shiny object. Then now you got a hammer, so you're just going to look around for nails to hit it with.

Exactly. And so, you know, I use the analogy. So when they, with the advent of a calculator, you know, it didn't replace CPAs, right?

Right. That's right.

So look at AI as a tool. And for people that are not early adopters, um, or, you know, lead in that, um, tech space, I would say just start somewhere. Start with one application and let that be a note-taker, right?

Yeah.

Go to ChatGPT and set up an assistant that gets to know you and what you do, right? And as you can, you know, research and, and create prompts, it will memorize that. And that becomes such an efficiency when you're doing lead generation, say, for as a sales rep. Another area, actually, it's really cool, is there's an application where you can do sales coaching.

So— That's right.

Yeah. And so a sales manager can, you know, be comfortable about going on vacation when they just hired somebody new. And companies can set up a repository of their sales playbook and anything and everything you need to know. And these applications will coach you through how to run a sales call and what to say. And, you know, verbal sparring, as I call it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's such a great use case. I love that one. And I actually, I have a client that's developing a tool that uses like the DISC profiles and like the OCEAN personality assessment. to analyze buyers and then provide like a psychological profile of, hey, here's how to shift your positioning for your particular solution to use their trigger language, like the things that are really gonna sort of motivate them and help them see the value of it. It's so interesting all the stuff that's coming out and how it can—

I actually use a tool like that. It's an AI tool. It's a plugin. It's called KnowledgeNet and it plugs into your LinkedIn. So, it's a relationship mapping tool.

Yeah.

And, um, it, it will tell you who your first connections— like, you load in your ICP and you narrow your focus on your ideal client, your, your target audience, your ideal client profile. And then you say people likely with these titles in this geography, in this industry, these types of companies, right? Then it looks at your first-level connections and say you and I are connected first level and I want to get into a client or, you know, a company that you're connected with or have a contact, it'll automatically write the email, me asking you to make that introduction. Yeah, it's, it's—

I'm gonna look into that one.

And then you can click on the person that you want to meet at that company you want to reach out to and hit the Crystal Knows, that little I button, Crystal Knows. Gives you a whole DiSC profile. So it's just like what you're saying your client's creating, and that's the wave of the future.

That's right. That's right. And like I said, it's that, that bionic integration. You might not be replaced by AI, but somebody using it will definitely replace you if you aren't taking advantage of it. And I always say, like, it's the strongest ROI of a hire I ever made was that $20 a month I spend on ChatGPT or Claude or whatever it So I'm gonna— let's shift gears a little bit. And because we could kind of talk about, you know, fun stuff in the AI space all day, but part of what— how you and I met was through the lens of exit planning. And you talked a little bit around how you help companies, you know, sort of prepare for exit. I see so often that when companies are getting ready to sell, one of the best ways to improve their enterprise value is through implementing marketing and sales structures. But so few marketing and sales folks think about the bottom line and EBITDA because so many of them are really just focused on, you know, sort of top-line revenue.

Yes.

Talk to us a little bit about how you see, you know, implementing sales process and systems impact the enterprise value, the value of the organization that makes them more attractive to buyers, de-risks the buy, and all of those things.

Yeah. So what I often see is with clients that are thinking about exiting, and sometimes it's always better when it's a planned exit, right? 1 to 3 years out. But sometimes, you know, they say the 4 Ds come into play and it's a sudden thing, you know, death, divorce, disease, distension with your partner.

Yeah.

And it's a more, you know, forced circumstance. And it's unfortunate because you have all this pride in this baby that you built and you don't realize the gaps. And there's always sales gaps, not only in building out that foundation and being able to articulate to a prospective buyer how success is created in your organization, but then You take a look at their customer concentration and you find that 80% of their revenue is tied up in 2 or 3 customers.

Right.

That's not sustainable, right? Or it's a founder-led sales organization. And as soon as that individual leaves, chances are so will the customers. And so it really devalues the company. And, you know, I always say, The more valuable you are to your company, the less valuable your company is, right?

That's right.

It's unfortunate but true. So sales really, what I see where things are fractured within organizations is the customer concentration, the founder-led sales organization, the lack of being able to define how success is created and how you, obviously you're selling a product or a service, but what's your sales strategy? How do you articulate that? How do you differentiate yourself. And if all of that's not documented, and I like to pull it together in that sales playbook, it's really hard to duplicate that and hand something over that's worth, you know, that's valuable to a prospective buyer. And all of these things come, come out and are very transparent in pre, you know, due diligence and due diligence. And so a lot of companies unfortunately have to sell due 4 Ds, or, you know, it's always better when there's a 1 to 3 year runway. I like to work with those types of companies that aren't looking for an immediate, you know, turn. It usually takes about 6 months, 3 months to build an infrastructure and then 3 months to see any increase or improvement in sales as a result of building that foundation. Yeah.

It's so funny you talked about that sort of, you know, owner dependence. And oftentimes when, you know, we're, you know, helping a company that's preparing for exit, we're like, you know, who's your best salesperson? And oftentimes the owners are like, oh, me, no one can sell it like me. I'm the— everyone else is worthless. I'm like, that's not a good thing for you. But they take a lot of pride in it. And it's funny that when you sort of say, Well, do you realize how risky that makes this for the next buyer? Because you don't want to be here selling for them. You don't want to be their top salesperson. And then, oh yeah, I guess we do need to document some of these things.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so interesting. Well, I'm curious, and not to put you on the spot, how much sort of improvement in, you know, sort of the multiple that companies can Earned, do you see happen from making some of these improvements? Not just in, you know, sort of being able to show that story of, you know, upward trajectory to a potential buyer, but actually, you know, making it more valuable. Do you have sort of handy numbers that you see? Does that vary from, you know, business to business?

I don't have any specific numbers that I can call out, but I can tell you that the pre or going through due diligence and the number on the front end of planning for an exit can be pennies on the dollar. And that was the case for one of my clients that I can share a case study and/or a success story with you. We haven't actually sold the company. That's probably at some point here in the future. But where was inserted into the business was to prepare her for that longer-term liquidity event. So it's hard to really say a difference in numbers, you know, in terms of, okay, well, you got 10x versus 2x.

Right, right.

Because every circumstance and situation is different. Every industry is different. But I'll just share the story with this one client. So it was a B2C business to consumer, D2C direct to consumer costume jewelry company.

Okay.

And she had actually contacted a company that helps with exits and does kind of an evaluation, a pre-evaluation. And, you know, it was determined that if you hold the course and if you make some corrections in your business and grow your revenue back to closer where it was pre-COVID, you are going to get, you know, a 10x multiple. And so I was brought in by this business broker to have a conversation with the owner and go through some ideas on what can we do to grow this. As you know, in marketing and direct-to-consumer businesses, a heavy digital footprint, right? Trying to reach the consumer and a lot of SEO and so forth. And so I said, you know, where I can add value to your business is creating a completely new vertical in your business, a B2B vertical, and get you into the likes of Nordstrom's and Macy's and, you know, some national department stores as well as hiring salespeople.

Right.

I brought in 28 salespeople across the US. First, it was the top 10 markets and then, and we did a lot of market analysis and then we hired a second wave of reps. So today the team stands at 28. They are knocking on doors. It happens to be a motivational inspirational brand. And so knocking on doors of yoga studios, hospitals. If you think about gift shops at hospitals, hotels, resorts, florists that have gift shops, and of course, women's clothing boutiques. So we have significantly grown the business because we created a second channel in the business. And, you know, within 6 months, I mean, the business was up like 54%.

Yeah.

And so it's starting to level off. We obviously saw a huge trajectory right out of the gate within the first 6 months. But I mean, this is double-digit growth and that's what we needed to do. We need to bring in the sales team, build the solid foundation with a playbook, and then over time see the continued growth. And so it's been a really exciting one for me.

That's such a great story. And I mean, not only is the business now worth more because the bottom line is better, but so many more buyers want to get in on something that looks like it's going up and away than something that looks like it's struggling to recover from COVID 5 years later. So, what a great story. What a great story. Well, you're obviously an expert in a lot of interesting things that we're both passionate about and we could talk about all day, but I got to be mindful of your time. But before I let you go, you know, talk to us a little bit about, you know, the types of companies you work with. Who should reach out? Who should connect with you?

Yeah, thanks. Well, any company where it's a founder-led sales organization or sales have stalled and what was working yesterday is no longer working today, that's a great client. But from an emotional perspective, it's somebody that's really frustrated because all of the things that got them to where they're at today aren't working. So, they're super frustrated and they don't understand why. So I would start with a sales discovery and identify where those sales gaps are in their infrastructure with their team, their organization, and such. They're upset because they potentially have a lot of turnover on their sales team. There's no continuity, and that's usually driven by not doing team assessments on the incoming when you're hiring. So assessing people to see, you're assessing skill and will and making sure that they would be a dynamic person on your sales team. And then another thing to look at is compensation plan. And that's really the motivator and what motivates salespeople. And so I like to design sales plans that are like 60/40, 50/50, you know, base and commission. So companies that have those types of challenges, they don't know what they don't know until we actually go through that discovery. And any founder that's just like, I've never worked so hard and not seen the return. And so I come in as a voice of reason and I lock arms and I not only tell them what needs to be done, but I implement and execute and fix everything on a project basis. And then sometimes I'll come in as a fractional half a day or full day sales manager. So those are the types of frustrations that I see most prominently in the founder-led companies.

And what's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?

Well, you can go to my LinkedIn. I'm under Susan Cashin. You can go to my website, growthwiseconsultinginc.com. You could call or text me directly, 949-545-8570.

There you go.

All right. So out there, you can find it all anyways online, right, with AI.

That's right. That's right. Well, Susie, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. I'm sure our audience learned a lot and gained a lot from your insights.

Oh, thank you so much for the opportunity. I really enjoyed it.

Absolutely. Talk to you soon.

Take care.

Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform, and share to others who will find it useful. Do you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story? Send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation.