Can Fractional CMOs Help Struggling Businesses Scale Faster with Melanie Asher

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts, uh, to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10x ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne. And today, I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Melanie Asher. Now, Melanie mixes mindset, brand clarity, and operational efficiency working with leaders who are ready to scale their business. She's a CEPA-certified Fractional Chief Marketing Officer and the founder of Omical. She's a powerful sought-after speaker, international author of 3 different books, on culture-driven brands. So, Melanie, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Marc. I'm super excited to be here.

Likewise. So, you and I share a very unique sort of thing in the marketplace, which we're going to talk about. But before we get into, you know, what does it mean to be a CEPA-certified CMO and some of those other things, why don't you give our audience a little bit of a sort of a background of You know, what has your journey been through your career and how did that lead you to where you are today?

Sure. So, I am an accidental entrepreneur. I did not grow up around it. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was growing up.

Okay.

And apparently, I am a natural entrepreneur, which a mentor had advised me early on that a true entrepreneur is unemployable.

Okay.

And at the time, I took offense to it because I'm like, oh my God, there's something wrong with me.

Sure.

And I've learned what she meant by that back in the day, that when you're an entrepreneur, you seek to make things better. You seek to find solutions. You seek change on some level.

Yeah.

And, and, and you can easily fit in and then do what you need to do and then get out and put somebody in there who's a better fit for the long term. And, and it's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. And so it's like, oh, so it was actually a compliment she was sharing with me. But at the time, I didn't have the experience to understand it. So I've owned my own business since I was 20-ish. And it started off with, at the time, was brand identity and custom websites and doing traditional marketing deliverables. Developed a platform that was comparable to WordPress, pre-WordPress, but WordPress beat me to market.

Sure.

So can't pursue that. And My business just kind of shifted. It started off more traditional, and then I started to get calls from previous clients who, and they would always whisper, and they would always be like, I need your help, and I don't know who I can trust. Can you help? Okay. So they were usually at a new organization. Something went wrong, and the organization didn't know what they didn't know. The marketing was a mess. the operations were a mess, and they would be like, here are the accounts we know of, here are the passwords we know of, do something, get us on a path, help us.

Yeah.

And so that's how I got the, the breadth of the experience of how an entire business is connected. And if a company is only focused on pretty colors of a brand or a Google ad campaign, they're missing the mark.

Yeah.

And it's really about how a company is integrated and how their systems and processes and operations are built out that make the difference, not just from a marketing perspective, but from an overall business growth perspective. And so over the years, that's how my business has evolved. And I've gone into companies typically because they feel like they've worked with everybody. And no one's able to generate results. They've tried everything and nothing works.

Yeah. Well, it's funny. So what you were saying resonates so much. And that person that told you that you were unemployable because of that sort of strong entrepreneurship vein, I think it's so interesting because oftentimes it's really that difference between leadership and management.

Yeah.

And as an entrepreneur, you're obviously a born leader, but leaders create change.

Yes.

And that's what they do. That doesn't mean that they're any better or worse than a manager, but managers don't create change. That's right. You do need both. And I think it's very astute to—

But different times. There are times when a position or a company needs a manager. And then there are times when they need a leader who can make hard decisions, make big changes, and guide the rest of the team through that process.

Yeah. Well, and it's, it's that ability to sort of be self-aware enough to know this is a context where you need change versus this is a context where you need management. Uh, and, and to know the difference between that sort of incremental versus the transformational. And then to do the right thing at the right time. I've seen plenty of organizations where they've got a strong entrepreneurial leader change agent in that CEO role, and they build something, and before they can harvest any of the value from what they've created, he goes and builds something else, and then he builds something else. And so the company is never able to actually manage the growth. Because they're constantly changing and leading to something new. So it's a, it's a really important distinction. And then also that thing that you said a second ago is, you know, they've tried everything and nothing works. And that speaks to sort of your mindset of being much more holistic in the way that you approach marketing, of it's not about doing everything. It's about knowing the right things and then focusing on those. Which is why so many companies feel like they've tried everything, um, because they're just throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks, uh, and then finding out that that's just how you ruin a pot of spaghetti.

Exactly. I can't tell you how many first-time meetings I go into with clients and they're ready with their checklist. We do this much social posting on this platform. We do this, we do that, we do this. To which I just sit there and I listen. I let them run through their list and I go, I don't care. And you just see their jaws drop and they're like, what do you mean you don't care? You are in marketing. You have to care. No, I don't.

Right.

I need to know what your 6-month goals are. I need to know what your 5-year goals are. Are we preparing to sell? Are we preparing to transition or are we preparing for organic growth?

That's right.

Because depending on what those goals are, are going to depend on what our strategy is, what the tactics are that we do, and the metrics that matter, as opposed to going down the rabbit hole of vanity metrics that don't mean anything.

That's right. And stuff that keeps them busy, like creating social posts.

Oh, we can create busy for now until all eternity.

That's right.

But if it doesn't align with what we're actually trying to do, Who cares?

That's right. Well, and so you brought up something really interesting and important there, and I alluded to this in your introduction, which is businesses that are preparing for exit. That's a very specific context that they're operating in. And to sort of set the table a little bit for our audience, for if you haven't heard, um, or if you haven't sort of seen this, You know, there's a whole lot of business owners that are advancing in age, and they have run this business for a long time. And now they're reaching some inflection point. Maybe they're going to sell to private equity or do some recapitalization, sell to their employees or partners, pass to the next generation of owners, whatever it might be. And so, they're looking to have a successful transition there. And this startling statistic that I've said before on this show, which is 70% of businesses that try to sell don't. They just kind of get chopped up for bits or just disappear. And then 70% of those that do sell, the owners actually regret it within a year, which means, you know, a very low percentage of these businesses that are the big, big group of businesses heading towards this inflection point, and very few of them are going to be happy about how it goes. Which has led to a lot of advisors like yourself and myself that are working with businesses preparing to exit to ensure that they have a better outcome, that they actually do sell or get the influx of capital they're looking for, can make those successful transitions and then be happy about it. And that's what that CEPA, that Certified Exit Planning Advisor designation's all about. And so, I'm curious, you know, as someone that works specifically in marketing and your, you know, your domain expertise and where you've spent all of those years as an entrepreneur, and then applying that to that specific business context of not, we're going to run this business forever or in perpetuity or for 10 years, but instead there's going to be something happen in maybe 3 to 5 years, whether it's, you know, it Doesn't sell and gets chopped up for parts, or it's a successful sale to, you know, private equity or a strategic buyer or a transition. How do you approach that differently as it relates to marketing and sales?

Sure. So I'd like to also add in another aspect of the exiting.

Yeah.

I tend to use the term transitioning. And the reason I do that is because a lot of times scale-ups are preparing for acquisition or to transition out. Yeah, it's not that they're retirement age. It's not that, you know, they've gotten to that seasoned point. It's that their intention was never to build a lifelong business. They were building a business to sell.

Right.

And so exit planning is more than just about retirement. It's about understanding the business as its own entity and getting the most value out of it today, tomorrow, and in the future. So I add that little bit of caveat to—

Yeah, I think that's very astute.

So I add a little bit of that to it. And then what I commonly see is when businesses are getting to that point that they are going to transition out. The very first thought is we must cut expenses.

Right.

Okay.

Well, I call it burning the furniture to keep from turning on the heat.

Yes. Blankets too, because that's really helpful.

Yeah, that's right.

So we're gonna burn the blankets, we're gonna burn the furniture, and we're not gonna turn on the heat.

That's right. That's right.

And, and then wonder why We're freezing to death and nobody's interested.

Yeah.

And so marketing is— marketing and sales are usually the first thing to get slashed.

Yeah.

So we slash everything that generates revenue and we slash everything that has the potential to build value, perceived value, external value in the business, and then it starts to ask questions, or they'll reduce the cost. So we'll outsource everything. Guess what? If you outsource everything, and I have seen companies do this, they outsource so much that they don't actually own their own data, right? They don't own their own brand. They don't own their own data. So when they go through the evaluate, the formal evaluation and their, their business is audited, there's no value because they don't own anything. They've subcontracted it out and the subcontractors own everything. It's like one of the very first things I do when I work with companies is like, okay, what trademarks do we have? What legal protections do we have? Do we own our own database? Do we own our own logo?

Right.

We own our own domain name. I can't tell you how many times companies— these are basic level things, assets, and companies outsource it because it's easier and cheaper to outsource it, and they don't own it. So when it comes time for that transition, well, what are you selling? You can prove you make revenue. That's great. But why would I buy that? There's nothing there to buy.

Yeah. What are some of the other things that you saw that non-ownership, that's sort of, it's not a sellable asset because you don't own it. What are some of those other things that you see? And I've got some to sort of pepper in. The, you know, one of the things that we see so often is we'll come in and, you know, a company will be like, oh, you know, we really want to amplify our sales. You know, for those that do want to invest, they're not burning the furniture to keep from turning on the heat, but they're like, we really think we can, you know, maximize our sales. We want to bring in a couple more salespeople to really juice up the revenues before we go to market. And so oftentimes I'll meet with that founder or that owner. I'm like, well, who is your best salesperson? Oh, it's me. No one can sell it like I can. And I'm like, so, do you want to be the number one salesperson for the new owners or do you want to get out and move to a beach or a golf course? And they're like, oh, yeah, I don't want to be selling for them. And I'm like, so, then we got to turn you into a system and a process that's transferable instead of them being reliant on you. What are some of the other things that you see? You know, sort of the mismatch between those founders or, you know, the operators as they're thinking about that transition.

There's not documentation. There's not documentation of what's being done, how it's being done. And then the other big one is systems are not connected.

Yeah.

I can't tell you how many times I've been brought into a company because ads are, they're running ads, they're spending $10K plus a month. on whatever ad platform is relevant to their industry to get zero return. And when I dive into the business, what I find out is their CRM is not connected to their website or to whatever else they're, they're running and doing.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you do know we have to connect this, right?

Right. There has to be a business outcome, not just we have more efficient CPM than we've ever had before. We all just had a party last week to celebrate it.

It's like if you don't connect these systems, you have no way of knowing what's truly working.

Yeah.

And more importantly, no real way to follow up with your next best client.

That's right.

So we have to build that out and that what you mentioned about the sales team. Is a prime example of how they slash in some areas and then they overinvest in other areas. They think that investing and expanding the sales team before they go through due diligence is a good thing. But what they don't realize is if regardless of how you overcompensate, if you slash, the amount that you've slashed just gets added back in. If you overexpend, it just gets cut back down in due diligence. So you're really not doing yourself any favors. If anything, you're setting yourself up for failure and for a lower valuation, because when you go through due diligence, they're going to see that this doesn't add up. And if you are not honest about this, what else are you hiding?

That's right. There's the old phrase, like, if one number on a slide is wrong, the whole deck's wrong. And it's definitely true. Like, if you fudged one thing in your numbers when it comes to the due diligence process, well, now everything's under question.

Exactly.

And so, you have to, you know, go through all of that. So, as you work with companies that are preparing for that transition, How do you help them connect systems? How do you help them, you know, make the right sort of strategic investments that are actually going to pay off when it comes to due diligence? And how do you help them think through that?

So that's a great question. I had— I'll share an example through a story. One client I worked with, they were in this scaling up phase for To prepare, yeah. And in scaling up, they had determined that posting to Instagram eight times a day was their goal.

Okay.

First of all, that's not a goal.

Why?

Yes, that was my that was my exact word to them was why. And and then we had to have conversations about what is a goal versus what is a tactic and strategy. But We'll get to that in a moment. And in that conversation, what ended up being revealed was they felt if they could be considered an influencer, that they would be able to generate more sales and grow the business.

OK.

OK. At least now I understand the thought process. Right. That's right. I still disagree with it. And we're still going to address it. But at least I understand the thought process.

Sure.

And so I started to look at their internal operations. Who's responsible for this? How is it getting done? How's it being executed? And what kind of results are they getting? 8 posts on Instagram per day, even though Instagram itself doesn't recommend more than 3 to 4 per week.

Okay.

Keep that in mind, first of all. Second of all, it took them on average 8 hours to create a single post. Wow.

So that's 64 person-hours per day that they're allocating to what may or may not be even a reasonable strategy, much less a reasonable tactical execution of that strategy.

Exactly. So once I figured this out, and then it was like, okay, let's look at why it's taking so long. Is it, do we have unnecessary approval processes? Are we using the right tools? What's going on? And it was a little bit of both. So we had one person who had, their designer was of the mindset that absolutely Everything had to be perfect. Perfect.

8 times a day.

8 times a day. And, and only used, um, he, he was using a high-end design software.

Okay.

That made sharing to get approval from other teams next to impossible. So he would do his part, And then have to export everything, email it out, start this email thread that would go around. And if somebody did not hit Reply All, then not everybody got to see the updates. And it was just a nightmare.

Yeah.

And so he was unwilling to change. And they also had an approval process that included about a third of the company. Oh my God. I'm like, no. So I started sharing some reality checks with them. For example, the average social media post has a lifespan of 2 seconds. We are averaging 8 hours to create one post that has an average lifespan, if you're lucky, of 2 seconds. Let's reevaluate what we're doing, why we're doing it, and how we're doing it. Shifted them over to Canva. Yeah, because Canva is much easier, much faster, uh, to create, to execute, and to get approvals.

Yeah.

We reduced the number of people who had approval authority. And we shifted how we're going to go from design, and then a separate person had to write the copy, how we're going to have them work together. So the average post went from 8 hours down to about an hour.

Much better.

Yes.

Big improvement.

Huge. Then we attached We reevaluated the goal of 8 per day.

Sure, sure.

Because that's just unreasonable, especially since the majority of the posts that needed to go out were not timely posts, meaning they did not have to go out at this day, at this time, for this reason.

Right.

There was a time frame, as in a campaign, that was completely relevant. Okay, but we don't need to overstress ourselves out. And so in doing this, we were able— and in doing this, we were able to streamline the process, speed up the ability to create posts, be more intentional about the posts. And because we were feeding the algorithm, as I call it, the algorithm gods, Based on what the algorithm gods like to eat, our engagement also went up.

Amazing, right?

So it's, it's a little bit of everything and it's about prioritizing what's important and why it's important.

That's right.

You know, social media is not the golden ticket to growing your business. It's not the golden ticket to selling your business. It's a part of it. And perception is really important. But if your business is not aligned with what it's doing, in alignment with the goals that you need to achieve, or even on the correct platform, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

What else have you seen? I'm really curious about some of your thoughts.

Well, you know, that's a prime example of that exact phrase that you talked about of, we've tried everything. Well, it's because you're doing so many things that are really sort of irrelevant. Yeah. And just sort of beside the point. And, and that's the, that's the thing that I, that I find is it's really sort of aligning on, well, what is the real goal?

Mm-hmm.

And, and so often, and, and I'm sure you've had this experience too, and I, You've got an MBA and a lot of training and a lot of experience and expertise. So much of training in marketing is around, well, we got to get the strategy right. And oftentimes that sort of strategy starts with a lot of research. You got to understand the customer and then the competitive landscape and your own unique company capabilities. And then you got to synthesize all of that to translate it into sort of a A unique selling proposition and a messaging strategy and all of those things. And it's funny working with companies preparing to sell, they're cranking along at $5 to $10 million a year and they're like, well, we need to do some marketing stuff to sort of capture. And most marketers will say, well, great. Well, let's go analyze the marketplace. And I'm like, but if you're gonna, Those strategic investments have an exponential payoff year 7, 10, but you're not going to be here in year 7, 10. Instead, let's do some of the things that you talked about, which is let's define some of these processes that aren't well-defined. Let's connect some of these systems that aren't well-connected. Let's drop some value to EBITDA by improving efficiency and, you know, sort of operation. And—

Yeah.

Make it a more sellable asset because now the new owner can actually see how all these things work instead of just, well, Melanie comes in and does her thing and I don't really know what that is. And magically leads pop out. And so being able to, you know, focus them on less sexy things like, you know, doing strategy and interviewing customers and, you know, redoing the logo to more, you know, sort of structural things like documenting processes and connecting KPIs that actually matter to the business. It again, you know, allows them to start to see, oh wow, although this is, you know, a best practice for kind of businesses that are, you know, anyone that tells you you should start with strategy, that's not a wrong thing to say because it's true. But sometimes some of those strategic investments for a company preparing to sell It's not as high of an ROI in that short-term timeframe that they're operating in. And that's been an interesting, you know, sort of shift to see in people's mind when they're like, oh, I guess that makes sense.

I think what I'm hearing you say, and I just had this conversation on another show I was on, there's a difference between marketing and advertising.

That's right.

And when companies are pursuing a transition of some type, their mind immediately goes to advertising dollars.

That's right.

And while that's great, you're, you know, you're being cost conscious. The downfall is you can't throw the baby out with the water. You know, marketing is not just an advertising campaign. An advertising campaign is a part of your marketing strategy. Marketing includes the internal aspects of your business. It's the operations, it's the CRM, it's the alignment with sales, it's the alignment with customer experience. Yeah, those are all connected and are all going to be revealed in due diligence. And if you can't turn that over to somebody else, you devalue the company.

That's right. Yeah. Well, Melanie, you're obviously an expert in a lot of areas that we're both passionate about, and we could spend all day talking about it, but I got to be mindful of your time. But before I let you go, why don't you kind of give us the pitch a little bit? Like, you know, who do you work with? Like, what are the things that you help them do? And what's the best way to get in touch?

Sure. You're welcome to reach out to me on LinkedIn, Melanie Asher MBA, and CEPA as well. You can also send me an email or visit my website, which is amical.com. On my site, I do have free resources that kind of walk you through. My most popular ebook right now is the, the real, the real reason why you're— I think it's the hidden reason your marketing doesn't work. I forget the title of it. But I have entire free resources that you're able to get instant access to information. Would love to share those with you. Who do I work with? I typically work with B2B companies who are scaling up or preparing to transition out. As I said before, if you feel you've tried everything and nothing works and you've worked with everyone and no one is able to generate results, I'm the one you call.

Awesome. Well, Melanie, thank you so much again for taking the time to join us today. I really enjoyed our conversation. Talk to you soon.

Okay.

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