How to Build a Powerful Brand Strategy That Works with Rich Kozak

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10x ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, And today I'm very excited to welcome Rich Kozak to the show. Now I'm going to read Rich's bio to make sure I get this right. He's done a lot of stuff. Rich is the CEO of Rich Brands and Impact Driven Publishing. He's a 2-time Amazon number 1 international bestselling author, including his book Impact Driven Branding: 7 Steps to Ensure Your Brand Impacts People's Lives and the World. He's been featured on major news outlets including ABC, CBS, Fox, and NBC, and he's the host of the Impact Driven Branding Doctor, which is a podcast which talks about his work focusing on giving entrepreneurs clarity, alignment, and a path to purchase. So, Rich, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome!

It's great to be here. You remind me as you talk about the name of your podcast that for 20 years, I worked, I served a B2B agency and I kind of was the B2B blueprint guy where we go in and talk to company owners about the path to getting known for what really makes them outstanding and what they're doing that's hurting them and they need to stop that. So, you and I have a lot in common.

Yeah. Well, and I'm excited to unpack some of it and share that with our audience. Tell us the story. So, obviously, you've got a really rich background. Worked at an agency. I think at one point, you were involved with the American Marketing Association on the B2B side of things. Tell us a little bit about your illustrious history. And what you do today?

Let's just hit the high points. Okay. I played in a rock band when I quit college, you know, left college with a 3.57 and played in a rock band for a few years. Electric violin, high harmonies like Graham Nash doing Crosby, Stills, Nash. This is in the '70s. Okay. It goes way back. So, that was a high point. Learned a lot, ran the business. Cool. Back to school, international business degree, Mark. Fortune 50 company. I learned what it means to go through the chairs. I learned what it means to literally envision where you can go in the company or not be able to envision. I know how it feels inside there. And I understood the difference between field sales, connecting with the direct customer, and marketing, which in those days was sitting in the corporate headquarters and mapping out things like pricing strategy. Okay, well, it was a lot of things anyway. When I finished my 7 and a half years at Fortune 50, I got the opportunity to work with a small band of consultants. And I remember reading my DOS manual cover to cover and highlighting every— that wasn't a high point, but it was an aha moment. When I learned, within 2 weeks, I knew more about computers than anybody else that I knew because I'd read the DOS manual.

Right.

But I'm not that guy, believe me. I'm not that tech guy. But I was like, I don't know any of that. I need to read this thing. Yeah. So, that just goes, you got to go deep. Like, if you don't know anything, you got to look deeper. So, there's a life lesson. But I got a call from somebody whom I had met in the American Marketing Association. And I had I had been very, very active in the AMA locally. It was volunteer, you know, after work, right? I had this factory job with this Fortune 50 company. And I— so job let out and I created the international division. I ran events. I was like, dude. And so they said, hey, let's make him the president. So they made me the president in Southern California. And then as things would turn out, I got nominated to be voted to be on the national board of directors of the American Marketing Association. So, I was elected as the vice president of business marketing. So, I got a chance to run the national business marketing conference with Business Marketing Magazine and Rick Keen and all his buddies. It's like, that was a hoot. And I was in my 30s. So, that was a lot of fun. And the agency was B2B. So, we had partners in 21 countries who were members of a partnership. And that means I was trained as an international— is it like a global brand consultant? All the principals and the key people were trained and received certification how to use research to listen deeply to why the brand was created, what it saw itself as, and then move it from its host country, from its founding country Let's say Germany to the United States where, and you know, and that medical laws were different and they make ophthalmological test equipment or something. Okay. So sat on global brand teams. It was an absolute hoot. By the time I was 50, I was doing all-nighters. I had partners all over the world. I would, you know, I would come home and wake my kids up at weirdo hours. I had 2 little boys, you know, let's say prayers, you know, and we say, and dear God, Thank you for sharing with us that we're only here for two reasons: to you know to love each other and praise God. Go back to sleep, boys. You know, and then come in here and do emails. It's like okay. So and I literally got the feeling that I was on track to a heart attack and you know a short life. And I I've been married now, thank goodness. 47 years, going on 48 in December, to a wonderful woman. I've been doing my business for 47 years, teaching the steps of branding, and nobody teaches the steps. So, what we found was really successful on the big agency, on the big company side, is a big company, our largest, my largest client was $14 billion and they were public. But we had a lot of private companies that were several hundred million. They were doing software, they were doing—

Healthcare.

some kind of specific service. And I taught them that branding is a process. Nobody teaches that. And we taught them the steps and the phases and the timeline. And we said, this is how much time it's going to take. This is what we're going to be doing. And they're like, we always thought branding was kind of airy-fairy, you know, baloney.

Right.

So, very successful doing that. When I turned 50, I changed my prayer. Lord, I know you haven't made me to do this for the rest of my life. So, I'm resigning this addictive career. Show me what you want me to do. I'm ready. And it wasn't long until individuals started asking me to help them with their brands. So, what eventually happened is I realized that this process that we used for big, big companies, which is usually about market penetration and generation of profits, competitive positioning, getting more than your fair share, whatever that is, of trade press or, you know, whatever. Literally reaching out and communicating with constituencies to drive the success of business and to drive a strategic roadmap that's agreed in advance. Uh, it was very, very exciting, by the way, and I loved it. I was quite good at it. But, uh, I realized that when you ask an individual who is an expert or an author or a coach, or they've created something, they've done something, ran a company for years, and now they want to take it to a higher level. They have this desire in their heart, a desire for impacts. You can have your own opinion. I believe God put it in there. We're all made by the same creator. So, when we write those down, The impacts we clearly see making and whom we really clearly see making those impacts on and that we really want to make them on. We do a few of those and we define the brand we must become to make those impacts. Everything aligns, Marc, and everything the brand says and does aligns with those impacts. And they get to the impacts faster and they get to the money faster. And it creates a more successful business for them from which they can easily step into why they are really here. Because our businesses aren't necessarily why we're here. So, that's the, you know, that's how I got here. I almost left. I don't do branding anymore. Those words are coming off my lips. Then I was asked by people, no, you never stopped. You just don't charge for it. And I was embarrassed. And And today, I'm on my 9th year of working only with individuals who are impact-driven and being ready to share this process with millions of entrepreneurs, many of whom have decades of experience and they know they're not done. But they're like at the locked gate to the next level and they can't get the lock off the door. It's like they don't know branding. They know it's important. They don't trust it. They're skeptical. They don't— they misunderstand it because the world sells branding as like, you know, something you need a guru for. And it's not. It is steps, baby.

Sure.

And so, that's who I am and where I am and why I do what I do and who I report to. I do this all day long, man, as you know. And I really enjoy it. I get to do it. I was made to do it. So, I used to think it was me. And then, you know, but it's not. It's a gift and it's flowing through me. And that makes it even sweeter. So, let's get on with this. The things that you as a listener are going to hear in this podcast can literally be a blessing to not only your business but your life. So, let's go.

Yeah. So, I love some of the things you just teased up there in giving us that background. And one of them that really resonates with me is this idea, and I know a lot of business leaders have had this experience of brand being a really squishy thing that's hard to define, or what does it even mean? Or is it spending months debating, should it be this color blue or that color blue, or this font or that font? Or is it just making things pretty? Or, you know, what is it? But you've got such a great background in this, and it's certainly an area of passion for mine. Talk to us about the process and what a brand is and why business leaders really need to care about it.

You're listening to this right now. I'm going to give you 2 sentences and it will change the way you think about brand, your brand forever. And if it doesn't, you weren't listening. Here it goes.

Money back.

Number one, your brand, and I'm talking to you if you're listening, I don't care if you run a company or it's just you. Your brand is a perception. Write that down. Your brand is a perception. There's more to the sentence, but it's not your perception.

That's right.

That's the important point. It's the perception in the mind. of those whose lives or businesses or companies or industries you most want to impact. It's their perception that is your brand. You don't care. I mean, there are people that in far, far away who love to pet giraffes. If that has nothing to do with what you do, it's not their perception you care about. It's those people whose lives you most want to impact. with your gift, your work, your business, your calling. Maybe you want to change an industry. Maybe you want to change a specific company. Whatever that is, it's their perception. So, since your brand is a perception and their perception is reality to them, they think you're not honest, then you're not honest in their eyes. Okay? So, like, okay.

That's right.

If they think that you're really kind, then you're really kind. So, the perception in their mind is what you get to— and here's the verb— shape. Branding is all those things we get to do to shape the perception in the mind of those target audiences we most want to impact.

That's right.

And that is it.

shapes those perceptions, whether it's the color that you pick or the font that you pick or how pretty it is or how not pretty it is. All of those are things that shape that perception in the mind of that target.

And that's absolutely true. So, what I don't want to go on and on about the process, but I will say, just like Marc said, it is a process and it's steps. There are things that get left out And when certain things get left out, a brand falls flat. People don't get it. They go, oh, that's nice. They don't understand what makes you unique. We'll talk about that a little bit later. You know, what makes you outstanding? If you're not getting credit for what makes you outstanding, you have missed a huge opportunity. So, how—

Yeah.

In, you know, how one— in one sentence, how do you ensure that your brand races to those impacts, accelerates that process, and succeeds at impacting the shaping of a consistent perception in those minds? How do you do that?

Right. Well, in It leads to such a sort of a common thing. There's an old phrase like, if you don't know where you're going, you'll never know when you get there. And so if the, if the goal of branding is to shape a perception in the mind of your target customer, it starts by having clarity on what perception you want to create in the mind of that customer so that you can then focus all your activities that are shaping that perception to create that that you have. Talk to us a little bit. I know you do a lot of work with helping folks get clarity. How do you help companies or what's the process companies go through on getting clear on what brand do they even want to shape in the mind of those target audiences?

Yeah, that's a great question. And because of what you just said, I'm going to lift you up. One of the reasons I love Marc and what he does is He's a really good listener and he really gets this. So, thank you, Mark. That was brilliant. Okay. So, remember when you very first learned about business? And maybe you don't, but you probably thought business was about money. It doesn't have to be. Good business makes money. Marketing as a concept means you're profitable. You don't do it if there's no profit. It's not marketing. Okay? You got to be profitable because you're building a future, right? So, but when you focus on impact, you get there faster. And so, when a company or the champion of a company, founder, solopreneur, CEO of lots of— focuses on the impacts they clearly see making when they are thriving at what they know they're about to do. So let's say they're going to a next level. They haven't been there yet, but they can picture it. Or they've been doing this for 20 years and they just want to do more of it. They can picture it. When they paint a clear picture of the impacts they know they can make and really want to make on those that they really want to make it on, you can use that information. Can't, forget can't. You use that information to pick language characteristics that you must be known for in order to make those impacts. So, if you need to be known to be really patient to make that impact on that type of person or to be technology-centric, Yeah. Or to be projecting of results and outcomes, or to be, you know, transformational in your thinking, or to be values-based, whatever those are, it comes from in order to make the impacts. So, let's say you've done that. Wave a magic wand.

Pow!

You've got 30 of these characteristics. You put them in priority order. What are the first top 3 you really need to get known for? On first impression. Seriously, on first impression. Well, what do you mean? A photo, a business card, an introduction when you're speaking, you know, a homepage above the fold on the website. First impression.

If you—

so, I keep saying if. I'm trained in NLP. It's like I slap myself. When you bake those characteristics that you must get credit for to make your impacts, into all the first impression, let's call them entry portals to the brand. You're getting there because what are you going to get known for? For what you must get known for to make your impacts. What if you went to another level and you said, hey, how about expertises? What expertises must we be known for to make our impacts? Well, there might be a bunch that you write down on a paper. And then you go, well, yeah, but which one would be like the gating one? Well, this one and then this one and then this one. And then you craft ways to say them so that no one else says them that way.

That's right.

So I have somebody who's a— he's trained by Daniel Amen in brain science and brain training. And he also represents a company that helps the body make stem cells. And his number one category of expertise, let's do it this way. The man speaking at the Next Level Body Conference is an expert at Experiencing a younger brain as we age.

Hmm.

Oh my God, I, I want— what? That's great. I didn't think that was possible. Is that possible? I want that. Okay, so what you've got there is you've got a few words that are English that we know. Experiencing a younger brain, right? But put together in a way that no one else says them. And Guess what? It's a category of expertise. And it's a category of one. Is there any competitor to him? Not with those words.

Right.

You see, when you start with the impacts and everything is in order to make the impact and you prioritize things, it might sound rigorous, but I'm telling you, it works every time. It can't get off track because it's a track. It works and it makes everything relevant. Like we sit in a line. So, that's kind of a— took me 5 minutes, but short version of it's just a process of steps.

Yeah.

And it's managing, it's first impression management, which it always is. But here's what doesn't happen. Third-party marketers don't throw stuff out there you know, that's incongruent with your brand. You don't just take every idea that comes in. You have this triangle with all your characteristics on it and these things you must be known for. And somebody comes in and goes, hey, here's an idea.

It's right.

It's going to happen. You have the power of next. It sounds like this. Well, let's see. And you look at that triangle, you know.

Yeah.

You know, that's going to get us credit for 2 of our top 5 categories of characteristics on first impression. That's pretty good. Or you look up and you go, next! That power right there will save you time and money. Yeah.

Not only time and money, but also frustration. Because when you have a really well-enunciated, call it a positioning strategy or a brand strategy or whatever you want to say.

Well, one of the final things that gets written after we look at competitors Because you have to search because a positioning statement, and I just finished one this morning with a client who coaches executives who are ready and know they need to transform their culture to take their business to the next level. And we were crafting this position in order to write a positioning statement. Positionings are competitive comparative.

That's right.

You have to know what's out there so you know how your positioning compares with theirs. There can't be 2 Jolly Green Giants at the same time, you know, and, uh, and, and, and it has to be defensible. Nobody can take it away. So, it's one of the last things we do in message hierarchy and after the work is done and the brand is defined in the characteristics and the categories of expertise and then competitor analysis and positioning statements and, and, uh, A message hierarchy. What are the top 7 messages, the first of which overcomes the barrier? What barrier? Good question. You know, maybe we'll get to that. But there's always one that'll make people bounce off and not let you in. You've got to overcome it like first.

Okay.

Anyway, does it sound like somebody who's done it over and over and over and over? Yeah. And does it sound like no matter what you do, it's going to happen to you too? Yeah. Either the good or the bad. You can pick which one. Define the language of brand upfront and get the benefits. And if you want to, we can talk about it now to give you 10 benefits for defining the language of brand upfront and get that clarity. Or you got 6 bad consequences. Take your pick.

That's right. Well, and you talked about it saves us kind of time and money because if you're wasting money on taking the wrong message to the marketplace or to the wrong people, But also, like, I see oftentimes it really creates a lot more sort of collaboration and sense of community, removes conflict on a team. Because when you know these are the things we have to win, this is what we have the right to win versus our competitors, and you have now a marketing or sales or even business opportunity, if it doesn't support winning on those things, it's really easy to say, That's not a good fit for our company. Instead of it being, well, that's Rich's idea and Rich's ideas always get picked, or that's Marc's idea and Marc's ideas never get picked. Instead, it's using an objective standard for defining those ideas that really help move the company forward. And that creates so much more clarity and so much more collaboration.

You're right. For a company's people to be able to share the story, to know that the brand has a language and this is the way we say things. It's really, it's really, I was going to say incredibly important, but it's not incredible. It's absolutely credible. It's really important. And people feel a part of it. They feel a part of the story when they can literally do that. So, I have a good example. I have a for-profit client who created a— she was a teacher for years and she took the work that helped kids learn character. Uh, there are national standards and certain schools sign up for these things. And she was one of the leaders in her schools and, and she created materials for parents to use at home in minutes a day because people were too, you know, so busy. Oh yeah, it sounds like a good program, but you know what? I got to get soccer practice.

Yeah.

Right. And she created— and she has created a nonprofit to raise money to distribute the books and proven tools to more parents worldwide. Literally, it has the possibility of reshaping the character of humanity. Not a nice— not a bad brand, you know?

Yeah.

Janet, Vince Aguirre, by the way, it's buildingkidshocare.com. Everybody has kids, knows kids, at buildingkidshocare.com, support it. Oh my God. Anyway, in creating the nonprofit, Choosing the board members. Like, we're at the point where we're looking at some really good guidance of how to build a nonprofit. And when everybody can tell the story, when everybody knows the vision and everybody can share it and really is on board with it, it's marvelous. And I'll be very specific on one thing. Remember, we talked about those characteristics?

Yeah.

that you have to have to make the impacts. Some of those are heart characteristics. In other words, integrity or trustability or trustable. Never hire people that don't share your brand's heart characteristics. Okay?

Yeah.

I would take that one to the bank. Seriously, you can't go like, okay team, this morning we're gonna have integrity training. It's like, it doesn't work. So yeah, that's really huge. Yeah, let them tell the story too. It's awesome.

So obviously tons of great topics here and you and I are both really passionate about it. We could talk about it all day, but gotta be mindful of your time. But before we let you go, why don't you tell us something that's on the horizon for Rich Brands or Impact Driven Publishing, something that you're really excited about? Uh, that's coming up?

Well, I'm excited about 2 things. First of all, um, the book, uh, Impact Driven Branding: 7 Steps to Impact— to Ensure Your Brand Impacts People's Lives in the World, um, is going to reach a lot more people a lot sooner. Um, and I'm not allowed to share why, but, uh, it is. That's exciting.

Okay.

And I— we're developing a Um, we're developing a brand on YouTube. Several of my clients are developing brands on YouTube, but for rich brands, the wisdom, the straight talk you can trust and deep experience you can count on in the area of branding, which is not looked at as an area of straight talk and trustability, it's more snake oil and, you know, trained in NLP, Milton Model entrancing language. Your essence is essentially your essence. You need a micro niche. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so, that's straight talk you can trust and deep experience you can count on in the area of branding and just train, train, train. The reason I created the Impact Brand Doctor podcast is because somebody said you could talk for months. And I'm like, I can do that. I've been doing this so long. You pick a topic, trademark. Law. Well, I'm not a lawyer, but you know, we've all been through that. You run agencies, like, you got to know that stuff, and you get trained in school. But how about trade dress? Nobody even knows what that is. Great, I can talk for a week. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like all these different areas that are part of a brand coming alive and being known as unique and getting credit and creating a Barriers to entry and being known as significantly different and being perceived as the one, as the best, all of these things. There's a lot to talk about. So, we're building a YouTube channel and it's going to be an absolute hoot.

That's awesome. So, you've dropped so much knowledge on us today, Rich. I'm sure you've perked up the ears of a lot of our listeners. For those that, you know, want to get in touch with you and learn more about, you know, working with you to get that clarity on, you know, sort of enhancing their brand, what's the, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

If you're listening to this, you're probably going to roll your eyes, but most people who know I've been doing this 47 years go, why aren't you on a beach or on a yacht? But I'm on Zoom. And on my website, richbrands.org, right above the fold on the homepage, it says, talk to Rich for 30 minutes. You can click that, pick a time that works for you that happens to be free on my calendar too, but it's got to work for you. And you tell me about you. What is your challenge? What do you do? I've been there. I've seen it. But now, I'm going to talk to you. You'll feel the heart connection that is here. You'll feel the ability to envision what's possible. And we'll have a really good discussion about you. Talk to Rich for 30 minutes. Take advantage of it. It also offers some free branding videos. Hey, listen to them. Use them. One of them, number 4, is what makes a good brand. I would listen to that one a couple times. That's the 4 things.

Well, such a generous offer. 30 minutes with Rich. Get the wealth of insight that you bring from your long and illustrious career. Rich, thanks so much for joining us today.

Marc, it's my pleasure. What a treat and great. I wish you the best fortune with your podcast. I'm so glad you're doing it.

Thanks so much, Rich. Talk to you soon.

Bye-bye.

Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform, and share to others who will find it useful. Do you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story? Send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation.