How to Build an ABM Strategy That Actually Works with Mason Cosby

Welcome to the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast, where we talk with entrepreneurs, founders, and leaders at B2B services, tech, and SaaS companies to learn the systems and processes they've used to create success for their business. We'll also learn from marketing and sales experts to provide insights to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Mark Osborne, and the podcast is brought to you by Modern Revenue Strategies and their 10X ROI B2B Growth Guarantee. Schedule a free diagnostic call to learn the fastest path to double your B2B revenues in just 90 days. Hello and welcome to another episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Osborne. Today, I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Mason Cosby. Now, I'm going to read Mason's background, make sure I get this right. He's an award-winning marketer, a keynote speaker, a popular guest for sales kickoffs, and he's an expert in account-based marketing or ABM. And we're going to talk about what that means and what that is. He's the founder of Scrappy ABM, and they build oftentimes the first successful ABM programs for their clients. teaching their clients how they work, and then they graduate them to sustainably scale those programs. He generated over $10 million in the past 3 years as a solo marketer and seller at a 20x return on investment for bootstrapped and boutique businesses. He'd love to help you get started in ABM. We're going to talk about his podcast, newsletter, and some of the insights that he can share with us today. So, Mason, welcome to the show.

Mark, thank you so much. You are very kind. My head, I felt get a little bit larger through that hat.

That hat's starting to squeeze.

It's getting tight. I'm gonna have to do one more setting looser. But anyway, no, I'm excited to be here and to hopefully help a couple people with some different ABM programs that they can start to run with today.

Awesome. So tell us a little bit of your background. So how'd you get to kind of where you are today doing what you're doing?

I'll make it really, really long story short. I started in print advertising sales, which is not where most people start. It was a very hard industry and I was a full funnel AE, which means I sourced my own pipeline.

Were you at Dunder Mifflin?

No, only—

That's paper, not print.

Well, fun fact, and then I haven't actually shared the story. We did have a cardboard cutout of Michael Scott right outside the sales office.

Okay.

So we were an office workplace. All that to say, as a full funnel AE, I had to source my own pipeline. close my own deals, and then manage the accounts post-sale. So like first job, straight commission.

Wow.

If I didn't sell, I didn't eat. And I also during that time decided to propose to a spouse and then recognize, oh, well, I have to sell enough to now not only provide for myself but also a family. So I got pretty good at scrappy efforts because it was literally how I had to live. And I don't say this as like a joke, but like at that stage, I lived at the poverty level in Mississippi. So like tough, to put it bluntly. From there, this was the weirdest career jump. I moved from that to then being the marketing director of a fintech company. Wild jump.

Okay.

Primarily because when I was in sales, I was selling advertising. So I was actually doing marketing strategy with local businesses on how to promote their brands. So a lot of marketing strategy in that context. From there, recognized I'm an idiot and didn't know a lot. So what I did is instead of continuing to be the biggest fish in a very small pond, because I was a sole marketing department, I transitioned into an agency where I then actually ran the marketing of the agency, which to this day as an in-house person was the most fun job of all time because I marketed marketing to marketers.

Yeah.

It was actually an agency that was in this flux transition. It was like, I think we're gonna go all in on ABM. So they went from a HubSpot inbound agency to a HubSpot ABM agency. And then my job as the marketer, I was told I was to function as the R&D department. So my job was to experiment, figure out what worked, and then educate our audience and say, hey, by the way, This works for us and our clients. If you want us to help you do the same stuff, uh, you can just buy from us. And that was a lot of fun.

Yeah.

So I did that for a few years, learned a ton through that. That agency ended up getting acquired. So I went from a 25 to 30 person boutique agency to a 600 person global agency where I led the new business development efforts for the ABM team and ended up closing out $2 million in about 6 months. Uh, then, uh, that same wife I proposed to, found out that we were gonna have a kiddo. So we left that agency because as much as it was a ton of fun, learned a lot there, it's a lot of travel because you're a global agency.

Yeah.

Fly around the globe and I like being home. So transitioned to a sales enablement organization where we taught sellers how to sell. And then after that, recognized I missed ABM. So I launched Scrappy ABM and now we've been for the past 16 months Helping roughly about 20 clients build ABM programs. We currently have an active portfolio of about 10 clients where we're building their programs current state. And we've done about $2.3 million in sales. If my contracts close by the end of the day, then I should be up to about $2.6 million. So that's my life in a nutshell.

That's awesome. And such an interesting sort of track because you obviously have a really unique perspective that not everyone does of combining both marketing and sales and needing to be good both and really sort of breaking down the silos that exist within some companies because you oftentimes were wearing both hats, whether you were sort of feeding yourself to sell it or because you were within an ABM framework. So obviously, a really great perspective there.

Yeah. Other than the fintech company, to make it really simple, I sold marketing, then I worked at a fintech company for a weird time, and then I marketed marketing, and then I sold marketing, and then I marketed sales, and then now I'm selling marketing again.

Yeah.

That's my career in a nutshell. It's been weird. It's been fun.

So I want to dive deep into some of these topics because you and I are both, you know, pretty passionate about account-based marketing and this integration between marketing and sales. But I think, you know, ABM or account-based marketing is a phrase that gets thrown around a lot. Different people have different definitions of it. So why don't you go ahead and set the stage for us as someone that's really an expert in this. How do you define what account-based marketing is?

Yeah, for starters, you'll also hear other phrases now thrown out often outside of ABM. There's ABX, which is account-based experience. There's ABS, which could be account-based strategy or account-based sales. There's account— ABX, which is account-based experience. There's ABCM, which is account-based customer marketing. I actually had a chapter in that book, which is fun. And then a new term that's come up in the past 6 to 8 months is ABGTM. So account-based go-to-market.

Okay.

So when you look at that and you Google it, you're like, wow, this is exhausting. And I agree. I agree too. It, yeah, it's just buzzword bingo. And typically what I look at is these terms have come up because ABM now carries a lot of baggage because people build an ABM program. About 1 in 5 ABM programs are successful, which means 4 in 5 aren't. So people built an ABM program, it totally failed. So now we've like rebranded a lot versus actually solving the problem. So now we've created more confusion. So my definition of ABM may sound similar to your definition if you're listening of like ABGTM or ABX or what. I think they're all the same. I think it's what's more important is how we define it.

Yeah.

So we define it as a B2B revenue strategy that aligns the revenue team around a set of shared target accounts. It's that simple. So to break that down a little bit further, revenue team, marketing, sales, customer success.

Yep.

Do they touch revenue? Yes. Great. Revenue team. And then a set of shared target accounts. I'm actually rethinking about framing our definition a little bit differently because there's still a lot of confusion around that set of shared target accounts and where that comes from. And when we think about the set of shared target accounts, the goal is to identify our best fit potential customer. And then to market specifically to them. And people are like, that makes total sense. And then marketing has a different best, sales has a different best, CS has a different best, and executive team has a different best. So when we think about what best means, it is high profit clients.

Yep.

It's about it. So like, and well, there's more nuance to it, but because for example, we have a really, really high profit client for us. I can't find more of them. They are a total unicorn. So for me to go build a program around a very unique subset that's less actually about revenue range and more about like culture and level of investment that like I can't find more of this specific kind of client. So it's high profit that has a viable market that is easy to reach.

Yeah.

That is how I think about best. Can we find them? Do they actually experience the pain that we solve for? Do they like solving the pain with money? Like, do they actually want to solve it? And when they do get in, are they actually appreciative and want to stick around for a really long time, a.k.a. high customer lifetime value? And they're high profit. And high profit is not just revenue, but it's revenue after delivery. That's right.

Which is called gross profit. Yeah, exactly.

Because I've seen companies close super high revenue customers That are like one customer and it takes way longer to service them. So after everything's said and done, the profit just tanks. But you're like, we closed this massive whale and it's like, well, yeah, it took all the team's time and now you lost all your minnows and now you're screwed. So anyway, when I think about that—

And that's an insight, that's an insight that only comes when you take the view of marketing, sales, and customer success all being part of a revenue team. So many companies don't take that perspective. And so then they, they win the big deal, but then it runs them out of business because the cost to serve them is so high.

And I actually don't think that's customer success that gives you that information because customer success will typically give you, they have a good NPS score, they're really nice to talk to, they don't hop on calls and they're not upset. Who gives you profitability is finance.

Sure.

And like, you know, it's never brought up in an ICP fit conversation. Let's go talk to the CFO. We typically avoid the CFO because they're typically for us the CFO. And you know why? Because when we think about the LTV to CAC ratio, we only focus on how do we increase CAC because we ask for more dollars, right? And we don't say we're going to use this CAC that you're giving us, like more money to acquire customers, to increase lifetime gross profit through the customers that we acquire.

Right.

So finance, when marketing comes into the office, They only see increased CAC. They don't see same CAC, higher lifetime value, which actually increases the LTV to CAC ratio in a positive way. Sorry, I just spent a couple of days digging in specifically to LTV to CAC. Like I spent 2 days at a workshop only focused on those things. It's really top of mind for me. And just like the fact that it's not front of mind for every business professional in a revenue seat is ludicrous because it is the fundamental unit of how do we actually Put money into, make money out. That's it.

That's right. That's right. It's one of the key benchmarks we use in sort of diagnosing like how healthy is your organization, that ratio right there. And even, you know, LTV sometimes gets a little tough for folks. Let's at least look at our first year of what we're gonna get off someone if we can't get to that LTV. So you talked about, you know, account-based marketing is this ability to You know, identify a discrete number of accounts and then have a go-to-market strategy for driving revenue that includes marketing, sales, customer success. One of the things you talked about being really important is defining that best customer. One of the ways that we seek to do that is, you know, very data-driven. We just look at everyone that you did any, you know, billing with in the last 2 years, rank them all on a thing, look at the top 20% as a number, usually makes up around 80% of your revenues. Then start looking at how are they similar to each other? How are How are they different from everyone else and all the ones you didn't win with? What are some other ways that you use? And the other thing we'd like to do is define the context that sent them to market because knowing that context helps you do just as you described, sort of target them so that you can sort of find where they are, their watering holes out in the wild. What are some other strategies that you use for helping to define those most important accounts that you're going to go after?

Yeah, I mean, truly every department brings a perspective, and instead of looking at them as competing, looking at them primarily as complementary perspectives. So I don't think that marketing has the entire equation. I don't think that sales has the entire equation, or CS, or finance, or even at times the executive team. I think it is a collaboration, and it's putting into context what each team should provide. So again, finance in my mind is providing profitability. Like they are doing the profit analysis to understand of our current customer base who are the highest profit customers. And then I want to be super clear, this is going to sound really callous to like finance, but I don't necessarily want them doing any further analysis. Like I want to, I want to get the list of customers that are highly profitable and then I want revenue executives. So that is marketing, sales and customer success to then sit down and say, awesome, we have this data-backed objective. I almost view finance as like the third-party objective view of like I wasn't involved in any of these customer conversations. Data is just here, like, right? I got, I got this phrase earlier this week, like, this is gonna maybe tick off some finance people, so forgive me, but like, finance doesn't actually do anything. Finance is a data function. All they do is take in and ingest data and then help you have good data to inform decisions on the money of your business.

Yeah. Interesting.

Interesting. Like, it's a, it's a very helpful, like, they're actually a data function.

Yeah.

So anyway, maybe some people hate me for that. I don't know. Long and short, I need finance to provide the data on profitability. And then what I want to do with the revenue leadership team is look around that, that list of highly profitable clients and say, what are the trends within these customers? Now, granted, there are great tools that are available. One of them is called BoostIdeal. You can actually like upload your target account list and actually get some market trends and AI analysis on like what's actually actually data-backed objective views. I think it's helpful if you've got the money for those tools. And again, some of these tools are actually coming up, they're like really cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Right.

If you don't have any budget for whatever reason to figure out who your best fit customers are, that will massively improve your profitability, which I think that's a mistake. If you don't, that's fine. Then you just have conversations and look at your existing data. So like revenue amount, headcount industries are things that marketing should specifically be looking at through the lens of how large is this viable market? Yeah. So like, these are high profit. Are there lots of them?

Right.

First thing. And also, are they easy to reach? Like, is it that they only communicate through carrier pigeon? If that is the case, probably not a good market to go after. It's gonna be really difficult to actually get in front of them. So that's what marketing typically brings. Sales is typically bringing Quality qualitative information of like these are the objections that we're constantly facing, and these are the reasons people move forward. Like this is why people buy from us in the first place. So it's helpful to understand why do people make the initial sale? Like why do people actually buy in the first place? And then also depending on how good your CRM compliance is, sales may even and they should be adding all the different people that are involved in this deal cycle into your CRM and on the deal record. And then what marketing sales can. do collaboratively is not just look at account sizes and account market size, but also how easy is it to reach these decision makers that are in the buying committee and how do we reach them earlier? And I, I've just had a whole reframing in the past, probably 18 to 24 months on the role of marketing and sales. And it's actually the same function in my mind. And that's also potentially controversial.

It's a continuous motion. Yes.

And I heard this framing, I was like, oh, that's genius. Marketing job is education as much as humanly possible. Sales job is fill in the gaps of what was missed from marketing.

Right. Well, and oftentimes sales is really just about facilitating decision-making. And it's as much, you know, sort of helping the client weave through their own processes for decision-making as much as it is convincing them of something.

Yeah, fully agree. So as we think about like the role of sales in that, it is typically like, why do people say that they're buying? Why do people say they're not buying and who's involved?

Yeah.

And then also in the context of good deal, good sales processes, it's like sales velocity and deal values. So that's a lot of what sales is bringing to the equation. And then customer success should be bringing a couple of things and depends on your CS organization setup. But I'll start with like core CS functions would be like retention, client satisfaction. And then another, I think, untracked metric that is super beneficial are like what cohorts of customers make the most referrals.

Yeah.

And typically that means they're really happy. And I was just on a webinar talking through this of like a referral playbook from mentality perspective is like, hey, you get a lot of value from us. You've got friends that could get a lot of value from us. Do you hate your friends? Yes or no? If you hate your friends, don't refer us. If you like your friends, refer us. Like, And the people that already do that naturally means they're, they're like, you got to check this stuff out. This guy's awesome. Or like, this team is awesome. This tool is awesome. Like, advocacy is a great indicator of best fit customers.

Right.

So you bring all that together and then likely you're gonna be left with probably, I don't know, like 10 customers. You're like, wow, awesome. Like, first of all, we have 100 customers, only 10% match this criteria. That's a problem. Second of all, it's, it's super helpful to think through how do I go get more of these people? And one of the things that I'm— because for quick context, Scrappy ABM as an organization is a capacity-based business. We do services. We can only take on so many clients. And like, there are very real constraints to every business. And the ability to then just say, What if instead of just getting more customers, we just got better customers?

Yeah.

And then it took the same amount of time to do all the work, but they stuck around for longer. They liked us more. They're more fun to work with. And probably, shoot, if they get that much value from us, we could charge them more. And it's like a radical way to turn around the health of a business without getting more customers. You just get better customers.

Yeah.

Anyway, that's what I think about you develop the target account list. If you're not gonna use tools, is get a profit analysis from finance. Marketing brings the market size. Sales brings why people buy and why they don't and who's involved. Customer success brings typically why they stay, how many people they refer. And then the other thing that is typically depending on how the organization is set up, it might be sales, it might be CS, but expansion. So another phrasing would be upsells, could be cross-sells. Someone else referred to it as like an ascension. So like you bought this product and then you buy this other thing because then that helps you increase lifetime value overall. And then this is the final thought, going back to LTV to CAC ratio. You have one customer acquisition cost and once you've acquired a customer, you did it. That's it.

Right.

The longer they stay and the more they buy from you, that only improves the LTV side. That's lifetime value. So once you've acquired them, just increase their value as a customer and you improve the business's health and you can do all that through a copy-based marketing program. It's like really cool.

Yeah. Well, and there's some really magical things that happen as you even make very small incremental growth with existing customers is that that turns from a linear curve that, aye, that's okay, to a polynomial curve. that looks like a hockey stick that people are really excited about from very small changes.

Yeah.

But it's that focus on, and one of the ways that we help people think through it is describe that customer journey that goes from, or, you know, buyer's journey that starts with, you know, problem aware, solution aware. And normally people will kind of stop at sales, but let's extend it to the decision on do we stay, do we renew? Let's extend it to the decision on do we expand, do we deepen our relationship with? And let's actually extend it one further. Are we an advocate? Do we provide referrals and testimonials? And when you see the customer journey as that complete picture, it really just changes the way that you approach the marketplace, changes all those different mechanisms. And the real key is delivering impact for your clients. So, if you've got impact, you're going to sort of see the journey much differently than if you're just looking at, can I get a sale? And totally changes the mindset. So you've described a really robust, integrated, holistic approach to defining sort of who those accounts should be, and that's core of account-based marketing. What makes sort of scrappy account-based marketing different from other ABM approaches in the marketplace? Because I think everyone would agree Understanding who the right accounts are is important and getting insight from across the organization is important. That's probably part of any ABM program. What's different about how Scrappy approaches the marketplace?

Tongue-in-cheek answer, it works. Sorry. Again, I like kind of breezed by it, but 4 in 5 ABM programs are doing like Failures.

Yeah.

And when you outline what ABM is, it's not that complicated in theory. It's like, why does it fail? And there are 3 well-documented reasons, but there's a 4th that I think underpins all of it. So I'll just— first is sales and marketing alignment. Second is lack of resourcing to like actually go and execute a program. And then third is measurement. So we don't know how to measure success. And then the 4th is— this is not documented. This is my hypothesis. The other 3 were very well documented. The 4th is just pressure to deliver. And typically it's because people purchase ABM programs. And I mean, that's like they buy ABM. Like I have this conversation of, yeah, we bought an ABM program, not we built, we executed, but we bought An ABM program, and it didn't work. You know, people say that we bought content marketing. We didn't buy inbound. We built an inbound program. We built a content marketing engine. But people say they buy ABM because they look at ABM platforms as the program. And an account-based marketing platform is something like a Six Sense, a Demandbase, a Terminus, a Rollworks. And I have nothing against the platforms. I have many friends at these companies. I've actually spoken at many of their events. I have nothing against the platforms. It is another phrase that I've heard this year that has like changed how I think about things. It's sequence over strategy.

Yeah.

So like an ABM strategy works. It just does. Like there's no way to say if we got our teams that generate revenue to align and objectively say this is the best fit customer, that's the highest profit, that likes us the most, that sticks around for the longest time, and we all work together to get those kinds of customers. How does that fail? Right. That's right. Like it, it— here's how. Timeline on expectations is unrealistic. And then there's the added pressure because we bought an ABM program. And again, the standard ABM tech stack, and I'll just— ABM platform, data enrichment, gifting, those 3 is typically in the $150,000 to $250,000 range. And I will never forget somebody was telling me, yeah, I was in CMO Coffee Talk, which is run by Sixth Sense. And I wanna be super clear, CMO Coffee Talk is amazing, like genuinely super helpful, has created a lot of great content. So there's nothing against CMO Coffee Talk. It is just a reality check that there was an individual that was a CMO that presented their ABM tech stack and their ABM tech stack costs $910,000 per year.

Just for the tech stack.

For the technology. And again, They are at a multibillion-dollar company. That's a drop in the bucket for them.

Sure.

But when that's the expectation for how do I build an ABM program and it's I got to go buy this technology to execute the thing versus I need to build a strategy that is focused on aligning our teams and executing a program. And then once we've executed the program, there will be a bajillion problems. Of course there will be. But instead of the problem being, oh my gosh, we don't have an ABM program, let me go buy the tool to execute the program. We say, oh, we're really struggling to scale the awareness level programming because we don't have the ability to be more targeted with our distribution channels. And we don't have the ability to specifically segment more effectively given the current constraints of our technology. I should go buy the right tooling that solves for that constraint in the context of our program. That is radically different than saying our problem is we don't have an ABM program, we should go buy an ABM program.

Yep.

So Scrap EBM works because it's focused first on how do we use the existing tooling, technology, and people to build good processes. It's just processes. How to build good processes that organize our teams to give clear roles and responsibilities on how we all work together to execute a program that engages our best fit target accounts. And it will be far from perfect. There will be many things that are broken, probably a couple pieces of duct tape. But we prove the model works and then optimize the model based on what was broken specifically.

Yeah.

That is why Scrappy AVM works.

Well, and what you describe is not a new concept because the sort of digital transformation, you know, mantra for the last, you know, 50 years has been people, process, technology. And that's sort of like that golden triangle. People, you have to get them thinking around how to solve the problem with transformation. Process, now you gotta build a process or a system that's got a feedback loop to it that you can improve and optimize against, now is the point at which you go layer in technology and, and more increasingly layer in data, whether it's intent data or whatever it might be. But as you described, like so often with ABM, people start with the technology, then they look for how do we shoehorn our existing process into the technology instead of— and then also They aren't, you know, focusing on the people and the mindset, which is why the timetables run out because there's all this pressure on. We spend so much on technology. We never really took the time to create the process so the people lose their patience. And that's why so that's why 80% of the programs fail.

Yep. I mean, if you think about it, and a lot of people are doing this right now because we're Thinking about 2025. So we've got our all-hands coming up, we've got our plan scheduled, we're going to roll out this new ABM program. We're really dedicated to doing it in '25. We're going to get it right. And then we're all excited. We'll like do some things in Q1. We'll kind of lose steam because we won't see progress in Q2. We'll do like a mid-year checkup and kind of say, hey, how's it going? It's like, well, we just kind of finished the integrations into our tech stack with our new tooling.

That's right.

So like, we're really ready to get launched now. We thought we were gonna launch 6 months ago. So then you go to the sales team, it's like, hey, let's go. And they're like, I thought you're gonna be already generating pipeline for me. You suck. Like, what? I was banking on you for the first half of the year. You didn't deliver anything. Why would I buy into what you're delivering? So now marketing will go do its thing and do its absolute best to make it work. But we already lost interest 5 months ago because we didn't initiate right after the all-hands. And then as a result, At the end of Q3, we're going to do a report to see how much inbound— or not inbound, sorry— how much ABM pipeline has been generated, how much ABM revenue has been generated when we've been running a program at this point for likely 3 months because of the tech stack integration. And marketing's gonna be able to report on we have target account engagement, which is awesome. Every executive's favorite thing to hear. And then ABM will be deemed a failure and that person will get fired and it's not their fault.

Yeah. Yeah, that's such a common story. Unfortunately, it's, it's also a bit of a cautionary tale because I'm sure folks have gone through that. So the solution then is to take a scrappy approach and to get the people mindset to build the process with whatever existing technologies you have. And then as you're starting to see success with it and it's starting to generate, then you layer in additional technologies and additional data. So you, you paint such an inspiring picture there. And we could obviously talk about this you know, all day, but I got to be mindful of, of your time. But, you know, what's something that's on the horizon for Scrappy ABM that you're excited about, that you're looking forward to?

So, I mean, full transparency, the whole goal for next year is true education. I've been fortunate that what we've been doing thus far has brought us a lot of clients. So I actually have more demand than I do supply. And what I want to do is we'll start having to turn down pipeline, to be quite frank. But I don't want to lead them and just like, figure it on your own. Like, clearly they sought us for help. I want to figure out how we can help them. So we're gonna focus a lot on education next year, primarily through workshops, and just most of it will be free. So again, if people are trying to figure out how to build an ABM program, I'm starting to formalize with our marketing director right now is literally a series that's just called like How-to. And it's not like, it's not thought leadership, it's not inspirational. It's like tactical. This filter results in this segmentation. Here's the template for messaging. Here's how you get your sales team on board. Go build it.

Yeah.

We'll have another session 2 or 3 weeks from now where you can, after you've built it a little bit, ask some follow-up questions specific. And then next month we'll do a different how-to and like, we're just gonna kind of run that cycle. With, with the goal of being ideally in a like true modern ABM education that is very accessible for people that haven't had it historically. Because I, I'll just be super blunt. I've looked at a lot of the certifications because I was like, I wonder how much it costs to get like certified. And like, man, the entry point is like 5 to 8 grand for a day.

Yeah.

To get ABM certified. And I'm like, that's, it's a lot for people that are just trying to figure it out. So that's, we're doubling down on that and just trying to create as much education as possible. So hopefully that's interesting for people. Go to scrappyabm.com/newsletter, go ahead and subscribe to our newsletter. It's our only email list. So like, we'll just keep you up to date there or go follow me on LinkedIn. Or if you just Google Scrappy ABM, I definitely own the term. So like, There's a lot of stuff that's podcast, a couple masterclasses in a couple different places like User Gems. Another one's coming up relatively soon with a company called CXL. So we've got tons and tons of existing content that's, that's pretty deep dives in exactly how to go build these programs.

Awesome. So for our audience that has been loving what they're hearing from Mason and sees the need for an account-focused and a holistic approach within their company, He's given you a bunch of ways to engage with them. So go out there, find that content, start implementing that in your business. And if you need some help with it, I'm sure Mason will be able to help you get started on being one of those success stories within the ABM space. So Mason, thanks so much for taking the time to join us and dropping your really sense of knowledge on this topic for the audience.

Yeah, I'm happy to be here and thank you so much for the opportunity.

All right, talk to you more soon. Thank you for joining this episode of the B2B Growth Blueprint podcast. We hope you've gained insights to grow your business. If you enjoyed this discussion, please rate, comment, like on your favorite platform, and share to others who will find it useful. Do you know a CEO, founder, or leader at an early-stage B2B services, tech, or SaaS company who would like to be a guest and share their story? Send us a note. Let's schedule a conversation.